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nwc10 ianozsvald.com/2016/06/20/results-f...tists-use/ -- interesting. if you read it, please read the "Bias" bit at the end 07:46
moritz if I'd start a new python project, it'd certainly be in 3.4+ 08:00
but legacy, legacy, legacy 08:01
nwc10 me too*. and yes, legacy
* I wanted something not-perl to validate XML I generated. But I found a command-line thing that seemed to be C, that was already installed
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arnsholt Yeah, Python 3 is a lot nicer 09:03
When I looked at the differences in semantics and such between 2 and 3 when I started Snake, I basically looked at old-style vs. new-style classes and went NOPE!
All of the nopes, in fact
timotimo yeah, never do old-style classes 09:04
arnsholt Yeah, I wanted to do something moderatly clever in a Python 2 project, involving descriptors and couldn't figure out why the descriptors weren't called 09:05
Then I realized: it's old-style unless you explicitly inherit from object
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brrt nwc10: interesting 11:46
otoh, descriptors are such a dumb design 11:47
timotimo what's that again?
brrt its... 11:48
an object
which takes the place of an attribute on another object
and which has three methods: get,set,delete
timotimo oh
brrt e.g.
moritz a layer of indirection over an attribute 11:49
much like returning a Proxy in Perl 6
python makes heavy use of them
brrt class Foo(object): bar = descriptor(); f = foo(); f.bar = 3; (calls f.bar.__setitem__(f.bar, f, 3)
perl6 has containers, which (imho) is more sane 11:50
timotimo we also have NativeRefs which basically are those descriptors :P
those that are such a dumb design
brrt not sure i agree
moritz the weird thing in python land (IMHO) is that from the outside, you have to know if something is an attribute or a method
timotimo maybe :)
brrt that what moritz says 11:51
moritz but if you access it as an attribute, there might still be a method hidden behind it (trhough such a descriptor)
timotimo right
NativeRef works in terms of assign and decont
brrt on the inside, you somehow have to store something in the object hash, without conflicts pretty please
on the inside, you don't necessarily know what 'name' your attribute has
timotimo hm 11:52
brrt i'm very confident that descriptor are the wrong way to approach the question of 'magic attributes'
timotimo magibutes
brrt but yeah, proxies are also like that 11:53
timotimo proxies don't let you set a name without mixing in an anon role with a .^name on it, eh?
brrt except that you probably create a proxy per object (or per invocation), whereas the descriptor is a class-global instance 11:54
timotimo ah, yeah, the proxy needs to close over the instance you want to access 11:55
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brrt \o lizmat 11:59
lizmat brrt o/ 12:00
timotimo <o 12:03
jnthn o/ lizmat 12:05
Enjoying YAPC?
Or TPC as I heard it's now called...there's one less FAQ :)
nine New FAQ: "What happened to "YAPC"?" 12:06
brrt and will we be calling it TPC::EU next year?
jnthn And if it's TPC::EU, will the UK be allowed to host it again? :P 12:08
moritz well, Kiev wasn't really "EU" either :-) 12:09
brrt we'll host it in switzerland or norway 12:10
moritz in both!
jnthn Goodness, the beer prices... :P
moritz Poland, maybe? :-)
closer to me, cheaper to eat and drink
brrt we can also do YAMC for a moarvm conference 12:11
timotimo yam yam 12:12
jnthn doesn't mention how nice it'd be to have it in Prague at some point, 'cus he knows that's a case of "well volunteered" :P
brrt which is just us 5 or 10 guys hanging out
prague is an excellent idea
it's settled then
timotimo i need to offer brrt hugs
brrt YAMC::EU 2016 in prague
timotimo this year, already?
we only have have a year to plan it, absolute-maximum 12:13
brrt :-D
moritz well, a smaller conference needs less planning 12:14
also, please spell it MOARCONF
brrt awesome 12:15
nine +1 for MOARCONF 12:16
timotimo COANF
jnthn heh, a MOARCONF would be fun
lizmat jnthn: sorry, was a way for a bit having breakfast 12:21
TPC is nice, hope the videos of yesterday will be up today 12:22
the guys were working on it last night already
MOARCONF is an excellent idea, BTW 12:23
perhaps after Alpine Workshop ?
nwc10 I assume it's more likely to be a Moar Unconference (come hackathon)
lizmat or maybe *at* the Alpine Workshop ?
timotimo i'm not sure we want to pull in the whole UN for this 12:25
brrt when is the APW? 12:27
2-3 september 12:32
hmmmm
oh well, i can always try to get free time for that :-) 12:35
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