01:04 woosley left 01:08 woosley joined 01:44 btyler joined 02:54 cognominal__ joined 03:55 raiph joined 04:30 woolfy joined, lizmat joined 05:11 donaldh joined 05:56 brrt joined
brrt \o #moarvm 06:55
timotimo o/ 06:56
what's on the menu for today? :)
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brrt today.... i'm going to fix the inline-jitting bug 07:03
:-)
timotimo sounds good 07:05
the last 4 days i haven't paid close attention because of the GPN going on
brrt the last days i have taken a bit of a 'vacation' :-) 07:06
so there wasn't much to pay attention too
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brrt i have added support for the notion of 'do something useful with the return value of this function' though, don't know if you've seen that 07:07
timotimo i saw the word "return" be used in commit messages, so i assumed, but i didn't know for sure 07:09
nebuchadnezzar 'morning 07:16
brrt morning 07:17
timotimo hi chad :)
brrt it means the set of opcodes that can be implemented greatly increases :-) 07:18
nebuchadnezzar can someone provides me a “tree” or “ls -lR” of a MoarVM installation on windows? I'm trying to address issues #102 #103 07:20
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brrt i... saw your request yesterday, and i think jnthn is perhaps the main windows-user here? i don't have windows installed right now 07:20
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timotimo can not :( 07:21
froggs may have a VM maybe?
no, wait, doesn't froggs develop on windows and has linux vms?
FROGGS it is the other way around :o) 07:22
I develop on linux, and have a bunch of VMs for testing
brrt still has to make a vm of his hdd
timotimo OK
brrt fwiw, i recall working with php and not of my coworkers ever having installed php on their windows 07:24
FROGGS but it is damn easy :o)
timotimo i was a php person once; it started during my windows days; i had a WAMPP :/
brrt it is very easy indeed
they didn't do it
professional programmers, no less 07:25
timotimo does that mean they never locally tested their stuff?
FROGGS builds rakudo latest on windows
brrt we had a shared debian installation accessible via ssh or ... whatsitcalled
timotimo telnet? :P
FTP perhaps? :D
brrt the-windows-filesharing-thingy
FROGGS hehe 07:26
brrt no
timotimo SMZ
brrt samba :-)
timotimo SMB*
samba is the free implementation
("first word in the dictionary that contains S, M and B in that order")
brrt anyway, that was enough, they just worked on that machine via SMB file share
(and moaned without end about it being slow)
timotimo fair enough; php programs may need some extra setup and you'd have to make extra sure your php.ini is the same as on the remote machine, as well as the apache config 07:27
brrt the more reason to learn how to do that, no?
xiaomiao well, php
more effective to push needles under your fingernails ;)
timotimo i mildly disagree; it can be easy to be developing against a slightly incorrect php/apache/DB setup and mess up *everything*
brrt more hilariously, the machine was also the router to the external network
timotimo and if they work on that stuff via SMB, they probably didn't use version control either? 07:28
brrt i haven't seen messing up everything
oh, they did
subversion
over smb
timotimo OK, that's less bad than i thought
brrt :-D
timotimo pretty bad, but not terribly bad.
brrt no, the no-version-control shop i worked on was also the no-local-installation-ever shop
'test it in a subdirectory' that kind of stuff 07:29
timotimo well, suffice to say there's better ways to approach software development
brrt fortunately
timotimo most of the time i'm convinced i'm a pretty mediocre programmer, but when i hear these stories i go "there are people like that *employed* out there?!" 07:31
FROGGS hehe 07:32
nebuchadnezzar timotimo: hopefully, I can feel like a god, sometimes ;-)
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brrt :-) although if you think that, there's an important aspect you're missing out on 07:37
these people are indeed employed, out there
timotimo and i am not! :P
brrt therefore, somebody believes they bring some value to the company
why not? self-employed?
timotimo more or less; i just changed into a different kind of more-or-less employedness and i don't know what to call it yet 07:38
FROGGS are you married now? O.o
timotimo i'm in the kind of more-or-less employedness where i do stuff and get money for it, so that's fine
FROGGS ahh, money, then no :o)
brrt oh, i see 07:39
so thats not unemployed as i'd count it
:-)
timotimo right
brrt in that regards i think we live in some confusing times
timotimo but it's not a traditional job type of deal where i go to an office or cubicle daily and work 9/5; and i'm not being paid by the hour 07:40
brrt let me hazard a guess and say you're under 40? :-) 07:41
timotimo that is correct
though not under half that
brrt i'd also guess that 07:42
hmm
25?
timotimo yup
brrt then.. i'm older than you
i'm 26
:-D 07:43
timotimo could be worse :P
brrt a bit
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brrt \o lizmat_ 07:45
are you in orlando now?
FROGGS nebuchadnezzar: gist.github.com/FROGGS/0c4aa629f01c5b1bd097 07:51
nebuchadnezzar: that is MoarVM/nqp/rakudo HEAD
nebuchadnezzar thanks a lot
FROGGS my MoarVM is in C:\, like my nqp and rakudo is
but only --prefix (C:\nqp\install) matters 07:52
nebuchadnezzar so I understood the setup.pm correctly, the lib is in bin/ ;-)
FROGGS and, btw, gist has a bug... it added the ten newlines in the gist for me, and I can't edit them away
timotimo FROGGS: your C:\ must look very messy!
FROGGS timotimo: no, just these three extra dirs :o) 07:53
okay, and strawberry and Perl64...
timotimo :P
FROGGS and cygwin64 and panda
:P
nebuchadnezzar: the lib is in bin, aye
that was needed for windows AFAIK 07:54
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FROGGS would be nice to move it elsewhere, and I guess a flag when building the moar executable will do 07:54
nebuchadnezzar but the “elsewhere” must be in some kind of load-path ? 07:55
FROGGS yes, like LD_LIBRARY_PATH on unixes
brrt perl64 has a confusing name 07:56
and windows doesn't have LD_LIBRARY_PATH :-) 07:57
it just has PATH
and dynamically-loaded libraries (DLL's, or SO on unix / posix) must also be present in PATH 07:58
which explains why C:\Windows\ is such a mess :-)
nebuchadnezzar step1: make it works the same but add configuration options ;-) 07:59
FROGGS MAIN_LIBS = /libpath:. moar.dll.lib <-- that is in current Makefile
and I suppose the /libpath wants to be: /libpath:. /libpath:..\lib 08:00
brrt: so /libpath is not about finding the lib at runtime? 08:02
brrt hmmmm
i don't.... think i know the answer to that 08:03
:-)
FROGGS I mean, on BSDs you distinguish between linktime and runtime... I just don't know what windows does
brrt i suppose windows does the same, but it is flexible 08:04
i.e. loading dynamic libraries at runtime is a normal thing for windows programs to do
that said
i'm only sure about the load order: directory-of-binary, PATH 08:05
FROGGS perhaps I have time to try that later 08:06
jnthn afternoon, #moarvm 10:10
I was gonna ask brrt if he had any questions, but looks like he's on lucnh break too : 10:11
:) even
grr...my keyboard is getting icky
of iffy
or "time to call on-site support to our office some day soon" 10:12
10:20 brrt joined
jnthn brrt \o/ 10:23
brrt: Got teaching in 2 mins...any questions?
ETIMEOUT : 10:24
bbl
brrt hi jnthn :-) 10:26
ow, shame
woolfy brrt: indeed, lizmat and me and TimToady and many others are in Orlando now. 10:30
FROGGS woolfy: lucky you are :o) 10:31
brrt how is the wheather? :-) 10:32
weather
woolfy The weather is hot and humid, reaching 35+C. Not plesant to walk outdoors. At night still 18+C.. Indoors there's AC's everywhere. 10:34
Lucky? Well... yeah, we have fun. :-) 10:35
brrt oh yes, florida
i don't think i could stand the weather there very long, but as you said, AC :-) 10:36
will the talks be broadcast?
woolfy lizmat and I both have a talk later today. I even have a lightning talk this morning. Yep, starting the day with lightning talks. I'm a bit nervous. I also have to do camera work after the lightning talks start.
Yep, all is video-d.
I dunno if life broadcast. There will be very little Perl 6 by the way. 10:37
life broadcast -> live broadcast... 10:40
brrt i've seen that
(the small amount of perl6)
what will you talk about?
did you bring the camel to the states, too? :-p
woolfy My talk will be about marketing. Same talk I did in Utrecht, Poznan, Prague, Paris. Well, adapted again. 10:43
Camel and books are here indeed.
brrt how... even? 10:44
cool, though
no problem at customs?
woolfy brrt: simple. Look at www.flickr.com/photos/wendyga/sets...316048078/ and understand... 10:48
Nope, no problems at customs. :-)
brrt small camels :-)
www.flickr.com/photos/wendyga/1402...4316048078 lol 10:49
woolfy Many Perl 6! 10:53
Books and camel: www.flickr.com/photos/wendyga/1402...4316048078
timotimo aaw, not much perl6? is perl6 dead? :( 11:03
woolfy Perl 6 is not very rich and its profets did not go over the ocean, or are otherwise occupied. 11:06
The main prophet is here though. Yay TimToady.
cognominal__ Hoping the crossing of the desert is almost over. 11:14
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FROGGS brrt: blog.yapcna.org/2014/06/23/yapc-is-...n-youtube/ 12:59
brrt ooh nice 13:00
FROGGS I don't see the stream though
brrt which ones are recent? 13:01
no me neither
brrt wonders what effect 'perl6 is faster than perl5' will have 13:05
a result for which we might have to extend the summer a bit, but who minds
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FROGGS about speed of P5/P6, I guess it will be like shock => disbelieving => ignorance, and a few more interested people who turned in the other direction at step #2 13:51
brrt i hope so 13:53
FROGGS but let's get fast first :o) 13:54
(and bugfree)
cognominal__ that was short 14:04
FROGGS LIVE: www.youtube.com/user/yapcna/featured 14:05
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brrt bugfree, first :-) 14:33
nwc10 no-one is going to switch from Perl 5 to Perl 6 because of speed 14:41
if they want speed, other already faster languages exist 14:42
just need to be fast "enough"
I think that the first head turner/mindshare grabber is going to be concurrency
stuff you simply *can't do* in Perl 5, at any speed. 14:43
brrt tbh, i don't think a lot of perl5 folks are still going to switch to perl6, because if you're still writing perl5 by now, you're probably heavily invested in it 14:51
exception - if you think something like mojo is really cool, which i do 14:52
_sri nwc10: actually, for me personally comparable performance to perl5 is very important (faster is nice, but i don't care too much about that) 14:56
brrt i think performance is important 15:00
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jnthn Well, single thread speed being within a factor of 2 + run on 4 threads = 2 times faster... :) 15:09
Well, sort of :P 15:10
But I figure processing web requests is by and large going to have sufficiently independent tasks that it can scale out well. 15:11
Anyway, yes, bug-free first. :)
Or close enough few notice the bugs ;P
brrt :-) 15:27
\o, long time no chat, how was travel?
(i was shocked, by the way, by how big a difference the jitted code still made) 15:29
i can only imagine how big a difference can come from 'real' codegen :-)
then again, i guess i know that answer, it's basically luajit's whole game 15:33
jnthn back 15:38
brrt: By and large, fine
brrt: I'm still "on the road" really...
Not home until Thursday.
I'm up in the north of Sweden. It didn't get dark last night. : 15:39
Also my ) key is failing :(
brrt :-o really no darkness? 15:40
oh, that is a shame 15:41
brrt is going to get pizza in a few minutes
jnthn has a sore throat and guesses he should find something spicy...alas, no Indian restaurants in this town :( 15:44
Yeah, it's just a couple of hundred kms short of being in the arctic circle
brrt hmmm... for a sore throat you might better get acetaminophen :-) (or paracetamol, whatever you want to call it) 15:51
jnthn got varius of those already :) 15:55
brrt fair enough :-)
i'm really off for pizza now :-) see you later this evening maybe? 15:58
jnthn I'll be about, yeah. 16:00
Just planning dinner and a walk
o/
hoelzro libpath is only used for .moarvm files, right? 16:18
or is it also used for .so's?
oh, apparently it's both 16:22
it seems that all of the ops needed by NQP are provided by MoarVM itself, but Rakudo has custom ops. Is that accurate? 16:23
jnthn Yes 16:24
Only Rakudo has ext ops.
hoelzro alright, thanks again jnthn!
jnthn dinner & 17:10
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dalek arVM/moar-jit: 755a183 | (Bart Wiegmans)++ | src/ (5 files):
Fix the issue with inlining
 19:53
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brrt ugh, i have to figure out how far the 'omg float are passed on registers too' problem bubbles through my code 20:07
FROGGS hehe 20:16
brrt hmm, its not that bad it seems 20:18
just addresses and return values
it does duplicate things a bit
20:34 brrt left
jnthn back 20:48
aww, I missed brrt 'cus I found an awesome riverside walking path and 2 hours later... :)
FROGGS jnthn: btw: www.google-melange.com/gsoc/dashboa...valuations 20:50
jnthn FROGGS: To be done before 27th,yes? :) 20:51
FROGGS yes
"no exceptions"
that's why I did it already :o)
jnthn "right now": jnthn.net/tmp/skell.jpg 20:57
Of note, notice the color of the sky. The note that it's about 11pm.
FROGGS nice :o) 21:00
btyler I remember being very disoriented walking around st petersburg in june and seeing kids playing on the street at 11pm 21:01
FROGGS and proper beer this time also :P
tadzik wonder why some of the fields in the evaluation are already filled in
like "how do you communicate with your student"
how do you know, Google, you devil you
FROGGS hmm? there was nothing filled in in mine 21:02
tadzik oh
they seem to remember my answer from _my_ midterm evaluation from 3 years ago
I wonder if the other answers are moritz's answers... 21:03
FROGGS: uh, or maybe they are yours 21:04
FROGGS hmmm
moritz I don't think backup mentors need to fillout the evaluations 21:09
at least it wasn't like this in previous years
tadzik okay, I'll leave it as it is, mostly 21:10
hope I didn't break too much, some of the stuff got overwritten even though I didn't click submit 21:11
jnthn The evaluation is submat. :) 21:19
FROGGS jnthn++ 21:22
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jnthn brrt: Looking at MVM_jit_magic_bytecode, I wonder a bit if we can't just have a static somewhere with that bytecode and just point to the same thing every time... 21:33
Rather than malloc'in one each time and memcpying
brrt: Also, doesn't need doing for now, but a further opt in the future (for memory, not speed) will be to check if the bytecode is below the size limit for inlining, and if it's greater than that then we needn't keep around the optimized bytecode version of it. 21:35
dalek arVM/osr: 6158f0b | jonathan++ | / (8 files):
Add osrpoint opcode for hot loop detection.
 21:36
jnthn 'night o/ 22:02
tadzik osr? 22:07
oh :)
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