00:45 vendethiel joined 01:15 vendethiel joined 01:40 vendethiel joined 02:11 TEttinger joined 02:15 vendethiel joined 02:25 TEttinger joined 03:02 pyrimidi_ joined 06:40 colomon joined, FROGGS joined
FROGGS nebuchadnezzar: is it possible that moarvm@kfreebsd lacks the dependency on libkvm? 06:57
06:59 zakharyas joined
nebuchadnezzar FROGGS: maybe 07:03
FROGGS: the dependency are really lite
FROGGS: bingo paste.debian.net/255187/ 07:05
FROGGS nebuchadnezzar: can you adjust that for the 2015-06 release? 07:06
nebuchadnezzar sure
FROGGS it is the only dependency where have there I believe
we also need librt and libdl, but that's standard, right? 07:07
I mean, it is a dependency on linux too, and it works on linux
nebuchadnezzar FROGGS: if not it would have failed on other arches
FROGGS yeah, I think so too 07:08
Build-Depends should probably contain libkvm-dev then 07:09
ahh, it is libkvm0 07:11
nebuchadnezzar FROGGS: not a problem, I do not have access to my SSH keys from work, so I can't do it now
FROGGS yes, sure 07:12
but the packages are called: libkavm0 and libkvm-dev
I always struggle to find the right packages 07:13
nebuchadnezzar FROGGS: Build-Depends on libkvm-dev I think packages.debian.org/unstable/libkvm-dev
FROGGS aye
nebuchadnezzar thanks a lot, I'm planning to setup a kfreebsd VM on my OpenNebula to test before pushing it 07:24
FROGGS nebuchadnezzar: is it easy to set up a debian package build bot? 07:33
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brrt so far, it works 08:00
nebuchadnezzar FROGGS: I'll just install a VM, clone and dpkg-buildpackage ;-) 08:01
brrt ok, bugfix, but many success 08:12
github.com/MoarVM/dynasm/tree/dasm-fix <- can now use full GPR addressing on x64 08:13
that tree is not suitable for merging with luajit, by the way 08:14
brrt can stop dreaming of bits, again 08:15
if we'd be doing a hackathon this would be a good moment to get drinks 08:16
08:19 FROGGS joined
dalek arVM/even-moar-jit: 5a93fdf | brrt++ | 3rdparty/dynasm:
Add new DynASM version as submodule
 08:57
jnthn morning o/ 09:01
JimmyZ \o
jnthn brrt++ # dynasm hacking
brrt :-)
good morning 09:02
on the road already, or still in sweden?
JimmyZ it still is nice we choose DynASM :P
masak brrt++ # nananananananananananananananana dynasm! 09:03
brrt hey, there may still be bugs though :-)
yes, actually, the alternative would've been knowing *every* bit of x86 instruction encoding, and now i only need to know 80% or so :-P 09:04
that's an overstatement too
jnthn brrt: Still in Sweden, leaving on Friday. 09:07
brrt rather exciting, an international move 09:08
:-)
jnthn :-) 09:09
Will be nice to populate the new place with some more of my stuffs :) 09:10
nwc10 yay
jnthn Not least my comfortable keyboard and nice dev box and big screen :)
nwc10 ln.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shekia
jnthn brrt: Quite reassured that the patches, though they look plenty of work, came out nice and small :) 09:12
nwc10 that's a good thing. Sort of related to "It costs a lot of money to look this cheap" and "I would have written a shorter letter, but I did not have the time." 09:13
brrt hah, yes, i'm happy about that too 09:14
jnthn aye
brrt otoh, it's not quite ready for merging with luajit, and it's also not complete (as in, not all cases of addressing are done) 09:15
but the most important one for our use case is
nwc10 tpi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sek_Ripablik
kaa.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shexiya
brrt what languages are these 09:16
nwc10 er, I'm not sure
ss.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shekhi
but it seems, if you try hard enough, almost any country can start with an S 09:17
jnthn What on earth language is ss...
ooh, Swazi 09:18
Yet another one I know nothing about
"iRiphablikhi yeShekhi" 09:19
That's some curious capitlaization...
ooh yay, boxman will show up in 30 mins. 09:20
This is especially good 'cus I failed to have the foresight to go and buy something last night for today's lunch... 09:21
nwc10 boxman collects boxes? 09:22
or boxman delivers more boxes? 09:23
brrt www.strchr.com/x86_machine_code_statistics <- is interesting and recognisable
jnthn Collects :)
nwc10 and then your all alone with the things that belong to the flat? 09:24
and what you're travelling with
brrt: it reminds me of what I noticed about ARM object files - hand written assembler looks very different from compiler generated assembler. The compiler seems to spend a lot of its time doing loads and stores 09:28
the human has figured out how to get all the working data into the available registers, and codes accordingly
brrt nods
nwc10 (or, I guess, didn't write it in assembler)
brrt well, in case of the moar-jit, a lot of time is also spent on maintainig VM invariants 09:29
like, 'this structure always points to this frame'
and of course that's a lot of what i'm trying to achieve :-) 09:30
jnthn phew, done 09:49
Looking at more examples of .ss, it seems the lowercase letters at the start of words are some kind of grammatical "marker". 09:51
masak jnthn: I was trying to find out, and tell you. :) but that sounds reasonable. 09:56
jnthn "Live weYurophu." is another example 09:58
Yurophu is clearly "Europe"
masak maybe they just add on whatever sounds nice. :) 10:02
brrt lunch & 10:11
10:18 Ven joined
nwc10 jnthn: gosh, important question I'd not realised - with everything boxed up and in transit, how are you making coffee for the next few days? 10:25
jnthn nwc10: That is a rather disturbing problem... 10:35
10:36 Ven joined 11:08 Ven joined
jnthn Phew, enough packing for now. I'll have lunch, and then spend the afternoon hacking on Moar/Perl 6 things. :) 11:21
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FROGGS brrt++ 11:37
jnthn: weYurophu is equivalent how you'd create such words in klingon 11:41
though, things like 'I do' or 'you are' are syllables that can be in front or after a noun, but attached to it 11:42
like: 11:46
I don't understand - jIyajbe'
I don't know - jISovbe'
I ...mumble... not
(I understand - jIyaj) 11:47
masak .oO( kiu elspezas tiom da tempo lerni tute artefaritan lingvon? ) :P 12:03
TEttinger jnthn: the aeropress makes good coffee and doesn't take any effort to pack 12:05
I don't know if they sell them in local stores, I bought two on amazon for about $20 each
also, thanks for your help, everyone, I now can compile and run the very basics of a lisp :D 12:06
jnthn \o/ 12:07
.oO( What is the Czech Republic called in Klingon? :) )
TEttinger ... estYurophu 12:08
MIGHTY KLINGON WARRIORS CARE NOT FOR LOCAL BORDER DISTINCTIONS 12:09
tadzik I didn't know that I know more Klingon speakers than Esperanto speakers 12:14
but having thought about it for a moment, I probably shouldn't be surprised
FROGGS tadzik: you are just visiting the wrong channels :o)
tadzik you spelled "right" wrong :P 12:16
jnthn gets himself latest builds of all the things
masak tadzik: I think I know a handful of Klingon speakers, and somewhere between 500 and 1000 Esperanto speakers. 12:26
TEttinger I know worf 12:28
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lizmat jnthn: re latest stuff, did we consider upgrading unicode to 8.0 yet ? 12:28
brrt Q'apla! 12:29
anyway, jnthn, i'm probably an utter heretic
but i quite enjoy an occasional cup of powdered espresso coffee 12:30
nwc10 lizmat: yes, I blieve jnthn has been thinking about it 12:32
TEttinger brrt: I don't even drink coffee, I take no-doz as pills (less acidic in my stomach) 12:33
lizmat if it would be something "mechanical" like importing some data files and running a few scripts, maybe someone else can do that :-)
nwc10 It never seems to be quite that simple
brrt no-doz?
lizmat if it is described somewhere, ther is...
*that
TEttinger brrt: caffeine in pill form 12:34
brrt oh, that's horrible
TEttinger I like coffee, it just messes up my stomach
brrt no offense meant, but caffeine is a stronger drug than many people realize
TEttinger I take less than most people get from energy drinks 12:35
monster energy messes me up
brrt monster energy messes *everyone* up :-)
tadzik brrt: doesn't that make coffee just as bad? 12:36
brrt but yeah, i'm not encouraging energy drinks either
tadzik (I'm not saying that it isn't :))
brrt well, yes, it's one of these moderation things; and also the pleasure/effects tradeoff i guess? for me at least
coffee actually tastes nice, i mean to say 12:37
tadzik I see
brrt but using caffeine as an all-purpose booster is not a very good idea, and not very effective either
jnthn lizmat: It's not quite mechanical in that somebody has to read the "what chnaged" summary of the spec and know if it's anything more than updating the database.
lizmat: I did that part a few days ago.
tadzik I don't really like the taste of coffee, but I *love* how it smells after grinding
jnthn And it probably is just updating the DB 12:38
tadzik maybe I should grind it, smell it, throw it away and take a pill instead
jnthn I guess I may as well do it now while it's on my mind :)
TEttinger brrt: oh I agree. that's why I take vyvanse (prescription slow-acting amphetamine)
lizmat jnthn++ :-)
brrt lol TEttinger
jnthn grmbl, I'm clogged up today 12:39
I need meaner anti-histamine or something...
TEttinger vyvanse doesn't help energy, it does make my focus basically superhuman
brrt the company of computer programmers is the company of drug users :-D
TEttinger well this is interesting: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amphetamine#...erformance 12:40
at low doses, things like vyvanse (which are not the same as crystal meth, but similar if you compare 100x different doses) cause unambiguous cognitive performance improvements. as in, no nervousness or panicky feelings like caffeine also causes at too high doses 12:42
psch interesting that the study is only from this year 12:43
oh, it's the review and meta-analysis that's from this year, i misread
TEttinger yeah. it's difficult to study currently because it amphetamines are prescription medicines now, but more highly regulated
not as hard as studies on marijuana (it's fascinating how some epileptic people benefit from it even if the strain has no recreational effects) 12:44
jnthn $ perl6-m -e "say ord qq[\c[SIGN OF THE HORNS]]" 12:45
129304
TEttinger hahaha
jnthn Well, thta Unicode 8 update wasn't so bad
TEttinger is that the metal fingers?
jnthn Let's see how the test suite likes it
TEttinger: yes!
psch awesome
jnthn Unicode is now officially METAL
TEttinger jnthn++
jnthn I guess I should check we can actually build NQP and Rakudo as well as run the test suite. :)
TEttinger naaaah 12:46
metal is justification enough
brrt epilepsy is weird
TEttinger brrt, yeah one of my best friends in high school had rough tics
brrt one of my rats has it
one would not necessarly expect amarijuana to have a beneficial effect though 12:47
TEttinger I like rats. rats apparently like my birdfeeder. cats like anything on he birdfeeder.
last time I touched a rat, it was inside the birdfeeder, getting every last morsel, and I gave it a scritch scratch on its incredibly soft back 12:48
then washed my hands :)
it's interesting how opossums are much uglier creatures than rats, pretty much without doubt, because the opossum uses that as a defense mechanism (it needs to look and smell dead) 12:50
but they both have the hairless gripping tail
drawing this back to perl, it makes you wonder about what makes a language visually appealing vs. actually effective 12:51
(opossums are the only surviving marsupial in north america. there used to be tons in prehistoric south america) 12:52
brrt aren't there anymore? 12:53
TEttinger there are a small amount of relatives of opossums in south america, I think. most are in australia
there are possums that somehow got to new zealand, but they're non-native 12:54
brrt anyway, perl5 (and perl6) give you tons of clues on what something is and what you're doing it in a very short amount of space
TEttinger yep!
brrt imho that's hugely valuable and something which really contributes (for me) to the feeling that i'm 'speaking' the language
rather than composing programs in it
jnthn Well, all the S15 stuff passes with Unicode 8, at least 12:55
brrt \o/ :-) 12:57
TEttinger in biological terms, perl is similar to a rat in terms of adaptability; flexible, able to adapt to any environment, uses relatively few resources -- where a language like Java, with a 1600-page standard library documentation printout, is more similar to an elephant; able to do a few things a rat would find difficult (jumping is not one of them), but occupying a tiny fraction of their pre-human territory 12:58
jnthn Darn it, my spectest repo was dirty so I did the test against outdated tests... 13:00
TEttinger test the tests
masak TEttinger: so you're saying that the arrival of humans made Java endangered? :P
jnthn sets it off again...
brrt if only
jnthn Maybe the arrival of Java endangered humans... 13:01
TEttinger the closest equivalent to early hominids, who found elephants really good sources of spareribs and other tasty meat, in a programming field might be scripting languages in general
monkeys and primates had been around for a while 13:02
brrt the biggest weakness of rats are their short lifes, offset by their high reproductive rate
TEttinger but early hominids developed a way to compensate for a relatively weak body, with tool use. you could compare it to how JS had been around but unsuitable for writing lots in, then it became an everywhere platform that suddenly got a good JIT too... 13:04
a less verbose language with a good JIT, versus a more verbose language with a good JIT, it's no wonder java's getting less usage 13:05
(even on android, the android V8 JS engine outperforms their Dalvik Java runtime) 13:06
(sometimes)
brrt that sometimes is kind of important :-)
TEttinger also, Dalvik is pretty awful
they "creatively interpreted" what the static keyword does... 13:07
brrt 'optimised for a different scenario' is how we prefer to call it :-P
TEttinger static variables last longer than your application does, which is ok if you expect to shut down and start up in a perfectly optimal scenario. but not if those static variables have native associated state, like an OpenGL context, in which case those variables suddenly refer to junk VRAM 13:08
this has no equivalent on desktop java
it was made up entirely by google and it's a pain. 13:09
masak TEttinger: that sounds weird and interesting. do you have a URL explaining that in more detail? 13:10
jnthn After the Unicode upgrade I get 3 new failures in S05-mass/properties-derived.t 13:11
TEttinger I'm not sure, I only know it from solving the recurring issues that people get from it in #libgdx here on freenode. that's a java game lib that works on android and desktop (and others that aren't as often)
brrt jnthn: that could potentially be database disagreements? 13:12
jnthn I think it may be a bad test. 13:13
.u 0x9FCD
m: say uniname 0x9FCD
camelia rakudo-moar 7fbd54: OUTPUT«<CJK Ideograph>␤»
jnthn m: say uniprop 0x9FCD, 'Ideographic'
camelia rakudo-moar 7fbd54: OUTPUT«0␤»
masak wut
jnthn It's 1 in Unicode 8 13:14
masak aha. 13:15
TEttinger stackoverflow.com/a/1944564
masak: ^
m: '\u9FCD' 13:16
camelia ( no output )
TEttinger m: say '\u9FCD'
camelia rakudo-moar 7fbd54: OUTPUT«\u9FCD␤»
TEttinger what's the proper unicode escape?
jnthn In Unicode 8:
4E00;<CJK Ideograph, First>;Lo;0;L;;;;;N;;;;;
9FD5;<CJK Ideograph, Last>;Lo;0;L;;;;;N;;;;;
psch m: say "\u9FCD"
camelia rakudo-moar 7fbd54: OUTPUT«===SORRY!=== Error while compiling /tmp/laWQXSuY0V␤Unrecognized backslash sequence: '\u'␤at /tmp/laWQXSuY0V:1␤------> say "\⏏u9FCD"␤ expecting any of:␤ argument list␤ double quotes␤ term␤»
jnthn \x
psch m: say "\x9FCD" 13:17
camelia rakudo-moar 7fbd54: OUTPUT«鿍␤»
TEttinger m: say '\x9FCD'
psch yes...
camelia rakudo-moar 7fbd54: OUTPUT«\x9FCD␤»
TEttinger ah
so it isn't in unifont
jnthn In Unicode 7:
4E00;<CJK Ideograph, First>;Lo;0;L;;;;;N;;;;;
9FCC;<CJK Ideograph, Last>;Lo;0;L;;;;;N;;;;;
So the test took one past the end of the valid range of ideographs 13:18
In Unicode *7*
TEttinger the numbers are different
jnthn But 8 adds more
TEttinger ok
jnthn So yeah, fragile test.
I suspect it should pick something that (a) exists, and (b) isn't ideographic :)
m: say uniprop 'A', 'Ideographic'
camelia rakudo-moar 7fbd54: OUTPUT«0␤»
jnthn Like that :)
If I just bump the number we'll probably have to play this game again for Unicode 9 13:19
TEttinger say uniprop "\x4F00", 'Ideographic'
m: say uniprop "\x4F00", 'Ideographic'
camelia rakudo-moar 7fbd54: OUTPUT«1␤»
masak jnthn: +1
"don't write tests that pass only because something isn't the case yet" :) 13:20
jnthn Maybe the test author was thinking of the right bicep... :P
dalek arVM: 7575ca4 | jnthn++ | src/strings/unicode_ (2 files):
Update to Unicode 8.
 13:24
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jnthn Fixing RTs is a very good way to procrastinate on the VMArray refactor... 15:04
AndChat|228864 for NSA?😊 15:06
jnthn jnthn: In part, yeah 15:09
Though most immediately to deal with the fact that the current factoring of MVMArray isn't memory safe in the face of multi-threaded abuse. 15:10
It doesn't have to give even slightly sensible answer under such conditions, but it should never SEGV.
JimmyZ_ nods 15:11
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timotimo jnthn: do you want me to make the code-gen work for localref/local sound more interesting? 15:34
you'll probably have to dive deep into the negative space between operations and find out what part of the huge machine composed of many cogs of different sizes to figure out where a "decont" materializes out of nowhere 15:35
... that sentence didn't grammar
timotimo goes for takes his grammar pill 15:36
jnthn timotimo: Heh, that task does get more exciting as it'll combine nicely with brrt++'s JIT work :)
TEttinger perl 6: now 98% made without the use of thaumaturgy! 15:42
* blood sacrifices to aztec gods don't count 15:43
interesting thing to note: the aztecs believed that literally all of their gods were dead, which explained perfectly reasonably why those gods could be in charge of the afterlife 15:44
and with multiple preceding worlds, the gods of the mortal world had themselves worshipped dead gods in a preceding version of reality, and I don't know what the view was on whether a world and an afterlife ago was a thing. it makes you wonder if semantic versioning is much older than we thought :P 15:48
CHANGELOG FOR WORLD 5.0.0: Breaking Changes are many, first you need to refer to Tlaloc and any of his children in the cosmos::afterlife package, and the cosmos::material package is... hang on, someone committed all the antimatter out of cosmos::material. DO NOT USE 5.0.0, use 5.1.0. 15:52
timotimo about the x86 machine code statistics article: i would have liked to see the instructions multiplied by their length and then graphed as a pie 16:05
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dalek arVM: a982f1b | jnthn++ | src/core/interp.c:
Fix SEGVs that can occur with code object ops.
 16:48
JimmyZ_ jnthn: IS_CONCRETE should be first since REPR(o) may be NULL, iirc 16:52
jnthn IS_CONCRETE isn't a nullness check
timotimo right, we have MVM_is_null for that 16:53
jnthn Even a VMNull has a REPR
timotimo yup
but is_null also checks for a null pointer
BBIAB
JimmyZ_ someone said it should be first two years ago.😊
before vmnull though 16:54
JimmyZ_ sleeps 17:00
dalek arVM: ef9d045 | jnthn++ | src/core/frame.c:
Fix missing concreteness checks in invocation.

These were to blame for Sub(0) in Rakudo leading to a SEGV.		 17:09
nebuchadnezzar héhé, Debian kfreebsd installed 17:17
jnthn .tell brrt 17:19
oops
.tell brrt in the blog "To make manners more difficult" ==> matters
brrt++ # blogging 17:20
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dalek arVM: 6dc0f3f | (Steve Mynott)++ | docs/moar.pod:
correct typo
 21:03
arVM: 2681ac2 | jnthn++ | docs/moar.pod:
Merge pull request #225 from stmuk/stmuk

correct typo
21:16 FROGGS_ joined 23:17 TEttinger joined

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