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Welcome to the main channel on the development of MoarVM, a virtual machine for NQP and Rakudo (moarvm.org). This channel is being logged for historical purposes. Set by lizmat on 24 May 2021. |
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| Nicholas | good *, * | 07:27 | |
| timo | good **/* | 07:49 | |
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| jnthn | o/ | 08:11 | |
| Nicholas | \o | 08:16 | |
| timo | good * to all my * and \* and \\* | 09:07 | |
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| lizmat | twitter.com/SpaceX/status/1545035306960687105 # on the live video stream, it looked like the engine burn cut out too soon | 13:28 | |
| wonder if "landed" is a euphemism for "forcefully deconstructed" in this case :-) | |||
| vrurg_ | A general question: is it possible to use separate RNGs for Moar's internal needs and for HLL? I have encountered a case where (likely, but not sure) hash operations broke Rakudo's t/09-moar/00-misc.t. | 14:00 | |
| jnthn | If a test is dependent on hash ordering that'd be a bug in the test | 14:07 | |
| I'm also not sure if the RNG for hashing would count as internal need or HLL, given hash randomization is a HLL-promised behavior (for security reasons) | 14:08 | ||
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| vrurg_ | jnthn: It's a bit different case. (nqp::srand(1) and then nqp::rand_I twice) x 2 – to make sure the first two produced numbers are the same, i.e. RNG is seeded as expected. | 19:35 | |
| After I did some coercion/return typecheck work in dispatcher some more core code got touched in between the two nqp::rand_I. Somehow RNG got involved and the second pair of numbers produced got different from the first pair. | 19:37 | ||
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| japhb | vrurg: Are you saying that the second srand is getting ignored? Because no matter how far apart, I would expect nqp::srand(constant) followed *immediately* by nqp::rand_I should produce the same sequence. | 19:39 | |
| vrurg | japhb: No, it doesn't. The key word is 'immediately. And because the first and the second rand_I are used as arguments to `is-deeply`, a lot of events happens in between. | 19:40 | |
| japhb | Ah! So it's not really testing what it thinks its testing. Sounds like a test bug? | 19:41 | |
| vrurg | The point is that Test module doesn't use RNG. Not for is-deeply. So, for a user these two rands do look as immediate. And I would like it to remain this way. | 19:42 | |
| japhb | (Though TBH being able to spin up a separate PRNG sequence is something I've wanted for quite a long time, just not quite strong enough to go and make it so.) | ||
| vrurg | I know there are cases out there where being able to seed and get predictable outcomes from RNG is crucial for testing. So, it's not a whim. | 19:43 | |
| japhb | vrurg: Where's the test? I think I might be misunderstanding your description of the test code. | 19:44 | |
| Oh, you linked it earlier | |||
| NM | |||
| OK, I did misunderstand your description, but in a way that strengthens my belief that the test as written is wrong (just lucky previously). | 19:46 | ||
| That said, I 100% agree that being able to test against a known sequence of random numbers is very useful. | |||
| And that it would be nice to separate the hash sequence from the "user" sequence. | 19:48 | ||
| vrurg | I have fixed the test, as a part of github.com/rakudo/rakudo/pull/4977. But, anyway. | 19:50 | |
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