| lizmat | And another Perl 6 Weekly hits the Net: p6weekly.wordpress.com/2016/05/24/...m-houston/ | 01:07 | |
| masak | "Houston, we have a quick one" :) | 06:23 | |
| lizmat++ | |||
| lizmat: feel better soon! | 06:30 | ||
| timotimo | yes, i hope you do get well :) | 09:54 | |
| sno | moritz: did you read www.netbsd.org/~sno/talks/nrpm/Cros...andout.pdf ? | 10:02 | |
| |Tux| | This is Rakudo version 2016.05-8-gb348f2f built on MoarVM version 2016.05 | 10:10 | |
| test 19.529 | |||
| test-t 12.728 | |||
| csv-parser 33.484 | |||
| moritz | sno: no | 10:18 | |
| sno | moritz: I'd really appreciate when you do :) | 10:19 | |
| moritz | sno: I know. My reading list is just long | ||
| sno | moritz: I'd like to work on a follow-up presentation and after that (and hopefully your and some others read/review) some patches for MoarVM, NQP & Co. configure stage :) | 10:20 | |
| |Tux| | sno, totally off-topic. do you agree with my github.com/perl5-dbi/SQL-Statement...9031c1edbb ? | ||
| sno | and it will be much easier to talk about the goal when you've read the stuff | 10:21 | |
| |Tux|: looks reasonable - are there tests with multiple statements | 10:22 | ||
| |Tux| will do a perl6 presentation on the NLUUG conference Thursday | |||
| sno, no tests (yet) | |||
| not by me at least | |||
| sno | |Tux|: no such change without tests - you know ..., but I really appreciate work on that beast | 10:23 | |
| |Tux| | so much to do, so little time | ||
| sno nods | 10:24 | ||
| |Tux| promises to add two tests | |||
| sno currently plays with router tech and a new web-project and wants Perl6 on IoT (cross compiled) before starting over and do the perl6 modules I miss ... | 10:25 | ||
| so yes, much to do - and there is another S::S issue which requires some extra affort ... | 10:26 | ||
| timotimo | are IoT devices powerful to satisfy the memory hunger of current moarvm? :S | ||
| sno | timotimo: they are | ||
| timotimo: they are powerful enough to satisfy the memory hunger of jvm | 10:27 | ||
| timotimo | oh | ||
| sno | and I managed running perl6-j on such an IoT device | ||
| timotimo | that's impressive | ||
| sno | but there are many issues in MoarVM, NQP and Rakudo configure and build stage wrt. cross-compiling, and I'd like to improve that | 10:28 | |
| which needs some understanding in the team responsible for reviewing patches and care of infrastructure | 10:29 | ||
| timotimo | i see | ||
| |Tux| | new 88.pl failure (not a trailing 0): | 10:30 | |
| # expected: Buf.new(61,10,0,56,143,36,56,119,182,81,88,70,88,139,28,119,142,151,108,12,215) | |||
| # got: Buf.new(61,10,0,56,143,36,56,119,182,81,88,70,88,139,28,119,142,151,108,12,215,127) | |||
| sno | www.netbsd.org/~sno/talks/nrpm/Cros...andout.pdf primarily explains the goals and general pitfalls when creating configure/build/install toolchain | ||
| and every perl6 hacker is welcome to read it :D | |||
| timotimo | i'll keep the tab open for now. right now i'm watching nine++ 's gpw talk | 10:32 | |
| stmuk | timotimo: that was an excellent talk | ||
| timotimo | i'm not in the target audience, really, as i already know the basic awesome stuff I::P5 can do | 10:33 | |
| not sure if there was anything "new" presented in that talk | |||
| |Tux| | do we have longdouble support yet? | 10:34 | |
| timotimo | no, we don't | ||
| |Tux| | :( | ||
| timotimo | it requires a piece of design for moarvm, as moarvm currently doesn't deal with natives that are bigger than 64 bit | 10:35 | |
| and in order to have any long doubles we'd have to have that | |||
| alternatively, we could have a C library that implements everything you might want to do with long doubles and then use that with nativecall | |||
| sno | timotimo: Apr 19 17:26:30 <nine_>[Sno]: oh I wish I hadn't read your slides. This makes things...more complicated. Makes it harder now to continue living in the "if it works on your system it must be good" bubble :) | 10:38 | |
| timotimo | mhm | ||
| sno | timotimo: beside different cpu architectures, biggest problem is the assumption of "compile once, run anywhere" in non-native code which will fail heavily when storing environment (PATH's, available 3rd party tools, ...) | 10:44 | |
| timotimo | ah, yes | 10:45 | |
| stmuk | sno: are you the maintainer of pkgsrc moarvm? | 10:46 | |
| sno | stmuk: nope, but maybe I work on that at summer | ||
| stmuk | ok | 10:48 | |
| sno | timotimo: given the situation of packaging (some Debian folks are very restrictive then ...), assumption of tools (which is the right location for perl6 to invoke to run post-processing stuff, which jvm to use, which library path during compile compared to installed package) | ||
| stmuk: I worked last 2 years with open-embedded, not that much time for pkgsrc :( | 10:49 | ||
| but I intend to return :D | |||
| stmuk | sno: I was experimenting with rakudo pkgsrc wip and it compiles with a version increase but I also noticed nqp test failures (didn't test on NetBSD) | 10:54 | |
| I need to give some proper feedback | 10:55 | ||
| sno | stmuk: pkgsrc wip is primarily maintained by [email@hidden.address] and has another feedback channel than pkgsrc | 10:56 | |
| I intend to fix the tooling of moar,nqp,rakudo .... and then do proper recipes for pkgsrc (native, not wip) and open-embedded | 10:57 | ||
| stmuk | sno: I was actually using a mix of pkgsrc proper and pkgsrc wip (looked like someone was half way through doing it and was on pause) | 10:58 | |
| sno | since more and more tasks are in IoT/embedded market, I need full running perl6 on all those platforms before starting work with and in perl6 | ||
| stmuk | what arch? | 11:02 | |
| sno | several - last arch was ARM (not ARM64) with multi-media features, previous was an Octeon (64-bit PowerPC) with network packet processor (checksum calculation, fast routing table lookup, ...) | 11:04 | |
| most of those tasks are C, C++ or Assembler - Perl is introduced (and currently perl5, but I want introduce Perl6 instead of introducing Perl5) | 11:05 | ||
| timotimo | all that's left for Inline::Perl6 is that cpanm install Inline::Perl6 builds rakudo for you :P | 11:06 | |
| ilmari | Alien::Rakudo? | 11:08 | |
| ISAGN | |||
| sno | that's insane and won't work at all | ||
| stmuk | "perl6 - making the insane work" | 11:10 | |
| sno | Nope, Inline::Perl6 or Alien::Rakudo is insane from IoT perspective | 11:11 | |
| timotimo | only has to work on some systems | ||
| sno | have a look at www.linkedin.com/pulse/create-imag...ns-rehsack to guess why such a tool is a fool for typical IoT environments | 11:25 | |
| even moritz - it's a 5 minute read | |||
| moritz | sno: please stop telling me what to do | 11:26 | |
| sno | moritz: I don't tell you what to do and when I generated the impression, I apologize - HL you to give you the chance to add something to your overful readlist | 11:29 | |
| moritz | sno: well, please stop doing that as well, it feel patronizing, especially with "even moritz" | 11:31 | |
| sno | moritz: wasn't meant "patronizing" - the intension was just being the opposite in a ironic way ... went wrong | 11:33 | |
| moritz: are serious question: when I do such a talk as above and lizmat tells me to introduce it to you - shall I ignore lizmat or is there a reasonable way to inform you about the resource and ask you for feedback? | 11:40 | ||
| Woodi | sno: go for perl5 in 2016, IMO | 11:44 | |
| ...for IoT/embaded things | |||
| hi all today :) | |||
| sno | Woodi: I don't understand what you're trying to tell me | 11:45 | |
| Woodi | you want show using perl on things like Rpi0, right ? | 11:46 | |
| moritz | sno: it's fine if you just inform me of things that might be interesting to read | ||
| sno | Woodi: nope | ||
| tomboy64 | currently rakudo compile fails with this: bpaste.net/show/6459e774d665 (java backend) | 13:50 | |
| this happens with 2016.05 and live | |||
| any suggestions? | |||
| i'm using icedtea 3 (openjdk 8) | 13:51 | ||
| timotimo | isn't rakudo-j known to not 100% install at the moment? | 13:52 | |
| tomboy64 | well, it worked just fine (tm) with 2016.04 | 13:53 | |
| timotimo | oh, i didn't know that | 13:55 | |
| brrt | maybe a precomp change that wasn't carried over to rakudo-j yet | 13:59 | |
| tomboy64 | :/ | 14:06 | |
| not nice that | |||
| brrt | well, the weak defence is that nobody has yet promised to support and keep running rakudo-j | 14:08 | |
| and the reasonable reason for that is that this is a lot of work, and we have limited resources | |||
| and to a large extent, the MoarVM backend is better for most users than the java backend | 14:09 | ||
| tomboy64 | :) i'm aware of that. | ||
| i just spent a lot of time making the java-backend work properly on gentoo | 14:10 | ||
| brrt | it doesn't sound undebuggable, and you might want to ask nine about it whenever he is here | ||
| well, that sucks | |||
| tomboy64 | will do | ||
| brrt | for what it is worth, it is why we have releases :-) | ||
| tomboy64 | :p | ||
| timotimo | well, we've got two or maybe more people who invest time in making the java port of rakudo work with latest things | 14:13 | |
| brrt | how is the rakudo-m situation with gentoo? | ||
| tomboy64 | works just fine | ||
| oh | |||
| well, need to rebuild | |||
| haven't tested 2016.05 yet | 14:14 | ||
| 2016.04 was just fine | |||
| but yea, works fine with both clang and gcc. | 14:17 | ||
| timotimo | well, can you build rakudo-j with gcj? :P | 14:18 | |
| tomboy64 | ugh | 14:19 | |
| that would require me to rebuild my gcc | |||
| brrt | don't make him do it timotimo :-P | ||
| it's not likely an issue with icedtea anyway | 14:20 | ||
| tomboy64 | $ perl6 -e 'say "okay"' | 14:21 | |
| okay | |||
| works fine on 2016.05 | |||
| timotimo | does gcj even exist any more? | 14:25 | |
| i thought development on that stalled like 5 years ago? | |||
| ilmari | still ships with gcc 6.1 | 14:26 | |
| timotimo | does that mean anything significant? | ||
| ilmari | it's still there at least | 14:27 | |
| but no mention of it (or java) in the changes pages for gcc 6, 5 or 4.9 | 14:28 | ||
| latest news item on gcc.gnu.org/java/ is from 2009 | |||
| seems like it's stable (in the biological sense) | |||
| tomboy64 | gcj is still shipped with gcc, but not enabled per default anymore | 14:34 | |
| it was replaced by go | |||
| ilmari | debian still enables it, at least | 14:38 | |
| but they tend to enable everything that can reasonably be enabled | 14:39 | ||
| timotimo | for stability reasons | ||
| tomboy64 | debian's backwards-compatibility madness is even worse than microsoft's | ||
| but no idea how ms handles that these days. haven't actually used their products for a decade or so. | 14:40 | ||
| geekosaur | microsoft ripped out a lot of back-compat starting in vista and continuing into win10 | 14:42 | |
| moritz | fwiw ocasionally I notice when Debian rolls out a change that's not backwards compatible, and I'm not eager on experiencing that more often :-) | 14:52 | |
| where "notice" is usually "suffer from" | |||
| brrt | geekosaur: oh really... that explains something | 14:57 | |
| ilmari | these days if you need ancient windows you can run it in a VM, I guess | ||
| compatibility with, that is | 14:58 | ||
| geekosaur | yep, they added WOW (WIndows-on-Windows) to allow XP stuff to run | 14:59 | |
| ilmari | huh, modern.ie claims «IE6 through IE11», but the dropdown only has IE8 and onwards (and no windows older than 7) | ||
| brrt | hmmm | 15:00 | |
| i'm having to work with a legacy program now and the compatibility experience has been less than stellar... | |||
| geekosaur | yes, people have found WoW to be lacking | 15:02 | |
| brrt dinner & | 15:04 | ||
| geekosaur | (Microsoft recommends running real XP in a VM for stuff that doesn't work. This isn't just a sales ploy; you're running unstable and insecure code that they very, very badly wanted to rip out and not have to put back in) | 15:07 | |
| dalek | ar: 122c0c9 | (Zoffix Znet)++ | tools/star/release-guide.pod: Point out where R* is listed in Rakudo Perl wiki |
15:21 | |
| ar: c5676a2 | (Steve Mynott)++ | tools/star/release-guide.pod: Merge pull request #71 from zoffixznet/patch-1 Point out where R* is listed in Rakudo Perl wiki |
|||
| cognominal | me suis réinscrit sur [email@hidden.address] j'avais disparu de la liste mi 2015 pour des raisons qui m'échappent. J'étais étonné de ne pas voir passer les mails à propos de la réuinions de Mercredi | 15:35 | |
| nine | tomboy64: yes, the recent round of improvements to the precompilation code exposed an issue on rakudo-j. | 16:17 | |
| tomboy64 | nine: how big of a probem is that? | 16:18 | |
| nine | tomboy64: it has taken me a month or longer to fix the same issue on rakudo-m and the fix still needs to be ported to the jvm version. | ||
| tomboy64 | ew | ||
| nine | It hopefully won't take another month, but it's not exactly straight forward either | ||
| tomboy64 | okay | ||
| well, i deactivated java for 2016.05 for now | |||
| nine | tomboy64: the up side is that 2016.05 should be much more packaging friendly :) | 16:19 | |
| tomboy64 | would be nice if you dropped me a line if it's supposed to be working again | ||
| heh :} well, it's downloading the source and compiling. so once the package exists there's not much to do apart from copy+paste the original build-script and test whether stuff works. | 16:20 | ||
| nine: but out of curiosity, why exactly do you think it is? | 16:21 | ||
| nine | tomboy64: it's now possible to build modules with an unpriviledged user in a separate directory, package the result and unpack the files to the file system in the intended directory with rakudo being able to use the precompiled files generated in the process. | 16:26 | |
| tomboy64: though granted, that's much less usefull if you expect your users to wait for compilation during installation anyway... | |||
| tomboy64 | :D indeed | 16:27 | |
| jdv79 | the abs paths are not embedded anymore? | 16:49 | |
| geekosaur | embedded paths are relative to the CUR, I think | 16:50 | |
| so you can move the repository around and things still work as long as it can find itself | |||
| nine | jdv79: they're gone | ||
| what geekosaur said :) | |||
| [Coke] | pmurias - how to build rakudo-js for testing? "git checkout js; perl Configure.pl --backends=js" doesn't work. | 16:56 | |
| s/testing/hacking/ | |||
| jdv79 | i wish i could find myself some days | 18:13 | |
| nine: excellent news! | 18:14 | ||
| dalek | kudo/nom: 5444cc9 | (Zoffix Znet)++ | docs/release_guide.pod: Fix typo |
18:49 | |
| kudo/nom: 19e91e8 | lizmat++ | docs/release_guide.pod: Merge pull request #776 from zoffixznet/patch-2 Fix typo |
|||
| travis-ci | Rakudo build failed. lizmat 'Merge pull request #776 from zoffixznet/patch-2 | 20:19 | |
| travis-ci.org/rakudo/rakudo/builds/132646406 github.com/rakudo/rakudo/compare/b...e91e889c51 |