Summer of Perl | 6.2.12 released! | paste: sial.org/pbot/perl6 | pugs.blogs.com | pugscode.org | pugs.kwiki.org | www.treehugger.com/files/th_images/paradigm.jpg
Set by nothingmuch on 12 July 2006.
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cmarcelo seen audreyt 00:54
jabbot cmarcelo: audreyt was seen 10 hours 56 minutes 52 seconds ago
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svnbot6 r11896 | fglock++ | pX/Pugs-Compiler-* - implemented <%hash>; several fixes 03:16
cmarcelo audreyt: ping 03:20
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mdiep STATUS says the Perl 5 backend is "Broken; once passed <50% of main tests (no ext/); inactive; will probably be rewritten around PIL2. [2006-01-30]" 04:09
is that different form the p6-to-p5 effort? or is this out of date? 04:10
obra I believe that's a whole different effort 04:11
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audreyt uhm, not exactly 04:58
the p5 backend was PIL-run, then pX, then lrep, then v6-alpha
there's some continuity involved (though code is all rewritten)
and now pugs -CPerl5 simply uses v6-alpha
so STATUS is outdated
obra was PIL-run an attempt to convert p6 to p5 or to do a lower-level bytecode and a bytecode interpreter? 04:59
audreyt it was an attempt to convert pil into perl5 and then eval"" it I think 05:00
but there was not sugar layer
and it's not as modularized, and does not attempt to bootstrap with a grammar implementation
obra *nod* 05:01
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gaal hullo 05:34
obra hey gaal
gaal hi obra!
cmarcelo audreyt: hi. re: IArray, i'm defining type IArray = (Judy.Map2 ..., TVar ArrayIndex), the index would hold the size of array.. is it a bad idea? i'm doing this to avoid filling the structure with lots of undefs.. 05:38
audreyt I think that's fine 05:56
xerox audreyt: yow :) 06:04
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gaal mooses 06:36
xerox is flying over to AngloHaskell! 06:37
gaal xerox: url? 06:41
xerox ?wiki AngloHaskell 06:42
lambdabot www.haskell.org/haskellwiki/AngloHaskell
gaal ha, haskell is the only language I know where the presence of a job opening shakes the community :) 06:43
"Lemmih could give a short talk on breakpoints in GHC" 06:46
gaal wants to hear that!
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beppu_ I'd like to build pugs on OSX (x86). Are there any resources that can help me along? 07:29
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beppu_ ghc has the most thorough ./configure script EVER. 07:43
dolmans since pugs in build on top of ghc, then the question is how to build ghc on osx. unoffical answer. :-)
StudiesInWords there is a 6.4.1 ghc for os x 07:48
beppu_ Indeed there is.... I think I'll use that. 07:51
is the osx build of ghc on haskell.org/ghc/download_ghc_641.html popwerpc only? 07:55
lambdabot Title: GHC: Download version 6.4.1
StudiesInWords seems like powerpc only 07:57
beppu_ I guess I'll find out in a moment. 07:58
StudiesInWords i have only ppc
beppu_ It is a PPC binary package, but OSX for x86 manages to be able to run it, anyway. 08:01
StudiesInWords "undefined symbols: _rl_catch_sigwinch"
beppu_ doh. ppc ghc won't build pugs on x86 osx. 08:04
I get errors like: /tmp/ghc14275.s:24:no such 386 instruction: `addi' 08:05
it's trying to use ppc assembly
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StudiesInWords lots of stuff not found, but still compiling here 08:09
svnbot6 r11897 | dolmans++ | Builtin reduce operators on null or one elem list. 08:20
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gaal beppu_: IRTS audreyt or nothingmuch mentioning you need arecentish 6.5.x for macs. 08:26
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StudiesInWords "Failed 4/521 test scripts, 99.23% okay, 38/9471 subtests failed, 99.60% okay" (pugs 6.2.12 with ghc 6.4.1 on OS X) 11:14
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miyagawa audreyt: ping 12:46
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audreyt miyagawa: pong (though I'm about to sleep) 13:09
filterm++ # does what GNU screen cannot do 13:10
alias nethack="filterm UTF8-cp437 cp437-UTF8 nethack"
(display of line drawing characters)
miyagawa that's fine. have you read the JSON::Syck utf-8 complaint mail?
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audreyt uh no 13:11
miyagawa oh, ok. it's rt 20830
dakkar filterm? doesn't 'luit' do the same thing? 13:12
audreyt miyagawa: mlehmann contradicts himself 13:13
"If it is 1, it sometimes returns json objects with "bytes"
>255."
I don't understand that part.
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miyagawa maybe he's thinking latin-1 as Unicode 13:14
?
audreyt not sure
miyagawa alright. I'm glad you feel the same way i do
audreyt I think he means that when ImplicitUnicode is on
the Dump() should still yield byte buffers
not unicode strings 13:15
which does have a certain merit
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audreyt but he can get that behaviour trivially using utf8::encode() or utf8::downgrade() or Encode::_utf8_off or Encode::encode_utf8 13:15
following the Dump
miyagawa probably he wants Pelr (Unicode) to JSON (utf-8)
which JSON::Syck doesn't?
yeah, it's really trivial .. 13:16
audreyt he wants the return value of Dump to by byte string
s/by/be/
can you reply to him to suggest that?
i.e. post process the Dump himself in perl land
miyagawa yep
audreyt I think it's generally more useful, our current behaviour
miyagawa yeah, we don't have any problem with the current 13:17
audreyt also
Perl only knows about binary strings (octet strings)
and text strings (unicode character strings), both of which can have the
UTF-8 flag set or cleared.
I think mlehmann is confused... there is no "utf8-flagged binary strings"
in perl5
but maybe it's just a terminology confusion 13:18
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audreyt anyway, you can always give him a commit bit and tell him to file bug reports in the form of regression tests :) 13:19
*wave* & 13:20
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svnbot6 r11898 | fglock++ | pX/Pugs-Compiler-Rule - TODO t/09-ratchet.t 14:07
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fglock mago: hi! 14:13
_mago yeah! 14:14
fglock did you get my last mail? I sent to e-via 14:16
_mago nop
mago at rio dot pm dot org 14:17
fglock k
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fglock re-sent :) 14:19
I'm refactoring v6.pm - it was starting to take too much ram to load 14:20
[particle] fglock: i have some cycles to devote to get parrot's p6regex tests working for p6-on-p5
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fglock [particle]: if the tests work for pugs they should work in v6 - or do you mean fixing v6 to get the tests running? 14:22
[particle] no, i mean writing a harness so t/p6regex/regex_tests can be run
it's just a data file right now
need a .t file that loads and runs the individual subtests 14:23
fglock sure, that would be very useful
[particle] it'll need to be written in perl6 i assume
fglock [particle]: yes
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[particle] and should i try to only use syntax that passes 01-sanity? 14:24
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[particle] or 02-test-pm, anyway 14:24
fglock [particle]: I'm rewriting some parts of Pugs-Compiler-Rule, it should be a bit easier to maintain
[particle] great 14:25
fglock [particle]: Test.pm works with v6.pm, but it would be good to have the basic tests not depending on it
[particle] well, these are p6regex tests, i don't know if you consider them basic or not 14:26
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[particle] i'll need to open and iterate through a file, at minimum 14:27
i don't see open tests in 01-sanity
happily, split and substr are there :)
fglock I think using Test.pm is ok 14:28
[particle] great
brb
StudiesInWords the documentation Pugs::Doc::Hack says "cpan Bundle::Pugs::SmokeKit", but doing that gives "Bundle::Pugs::SmokeKit has been obsoleted by Task::Smoke." 14:29
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gaal StudiesInWords: what version are you looking at? 14:35
StudiesInWords search.cpan.org/dist/Perl6-Pugs/lib...c/Hack.pod
lambdabot Title: Pugs::Doc::Hack - How to hack on Pugs - search.cpan.org
gaal look in HEAD...
it no longer says that there :)
StudiesInWords right 14:36
i was still checking out... 14:37
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[particle] which Test.pm is 'use Test' actually loading? (there are several in the repo) 14:53
fglock it should use ext/Test/lib - or a copy of the same file in perl5/Pugs-Compiler-Perl6/t 14:54
gaal blib6/lib/Testl.pm.yml, which a precompiled verison of the Test.pm copied over to that dir from ext/Test/lib 14:55
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fglock any ideas to debug a message like 'Not a CODE reference at (eval 80) line 126.' in perl5 (in pX/v6.pm) ? 15:05
I can't find the place 15:06
gaal fglock: install a __DIE__ handler that dumps Carp::longmess? 15:07
fglock gaal: I'll try - thanks!
although this is functional code - I think it will just dump a long list of unnamed subs 15:08
gaal run under perl -d with trace on? (or one of the -D tracers) 15:09
it'll be pretty slow and give lots of output 15:10
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fglock gaal: It worked - I used '-d:Trace' and grepped for '(eval 80)' 15:24
& 15:25
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vel 2Ac2rn1 15:49
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rodi 1.5 ~~ 1^..^2 # this evaluates to False in pugs, and should evaluate to true, per S03 - "New Operators" 16:34
svnbot6 r11899 | cmarcelo++ | * Judy.Map2: Take* primitives and a missing file required for testing.
r11898 | fglock++ | pX/Pugs-Compiler-Rule - TODO t/09-ratchet.t
rodi Where should this test go?
t/operators/?
smartmatch.t? 16:35
fglock rodi: t/operators/range.t
rodi fglock: tx
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svnbot6 r11900 | rodi++ | test for lazy evaluation of range operator 16:47
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clkao fglock: are we nearly there yet? ;) 17:25
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fglock clkao: I'm debugging a failure in Term match - everything else works ... 17:38
clkao i was wondering. does A orz B being parsed as &infix:<orz>(A, B) only when the infix is defined? 17:39
fglock clkao: I think so - otherwise it would be A( orz( B )) or an error 17:40
clkao but when you have that compiled in foo.pm, and you define it somewhere else and the require foo.pm...
i heard that one module is closed by itself, so it peeks for that during compilation or ? 17:41
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fglock I don't know - it would need to read that info from somewhere, or emit lazy code that gets fixed after 'use' 17:44
clkao TimToady: any idea about this?
fglock clkao: would you take a look at a bug? 17:49
clkao i am about to head out. but you can leave message on ir 17:50
c
fglock ok - I'll commit what I have 17:51
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svnbot6 r11901 | fglock++ | pX/Pugs-Compiler-Perl6 - inserted debugging info for "Not a CODE 17:52
r11901 | fglock++ | reference at (eval 80) line 27124" compiling ':foo(42)'
fglock 'line 27124' means code chunk 27, line 124 - i made it print the code right before the error
s/code/source code/ 17:53
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fglock ugh - I found the bug: 18:23
([_|\w] ) captures an array to $/[0]
which is right, but I need the string it matched - how do I get that?
[particle] .match ? 18:24
fglock there is a plus sign between ] and ) - cgi-irc doesn't show that
[particle] $match = $/[0] ?
fglock [particle]: $/[0] is a bare array 18:25
of matches
[particle] oh, it doesn't notice scalar context, and stringify the array?
i believe it should
in parrot, we do $S0 = match[0] 18:26
it sees it's assigning to a string register, and returns the matched string
however, this is probably a bit different in perl6
[particle] checks S05
fglock maybe it should only be an array in array context 18:27
[particle] yes 18:28
Notionally, a match object contains (among other things) a boolean success value, a scalar result object, an array of ordered submatch objects, and a hash of named submatch objects. To provide convenient access to these various values, the match object evaluates differently in different contexts:
In string context it evaluates to the stringified value of its result object, which is usually the entire matched string: 18:29
$match = ~$/[0]
or $match ~= ...
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fglock "the corresponding array element for the quantified capture will store a (nested) array rather than a single Match object" - maybe it means "store a submatch with positional captures? 18:30
that would work
[particle] yep
fglock fixing this requires more coffee & 18:32
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fglock after some coffee - it may be an implementation bug, i'll check 18:57
svnbot6 r11902 | fglock++ | pX/Pugs-Compiler-Rule - added t/11-quantifier.t with a failing test 19:04
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svnbot6 r11903 | fglock++ | pX/Pugs-Compiler-Rule - no errors in t/11-quantifier.t 19:09
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svnbot6 r11904 | fglock++ | pX/Pugs-Compiler-Rule - fixed the 'not a CODE' bug (localized static capture counts) 19:30
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svnbot6 r11905 | fglock++ | pX/Pugs-Compiler-* - t/00-grammar/01-pcr.t passes 19:45
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svnbot6 r11906 | fglock++ | pX/v6 - more parser tests 20:49
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SageLT I've got a p5 regex question that I think somebody here might be able to help me with: in t/op/pat.t there's a match on the pattern / {([^}]*)}/. To me this looks illegal (the opening { seems to start a count, not be a de-meta'ed character). How does this work? By translator is braking on it, cause the way I've got it coded it thinks that's a count (which i isn't) 21:10
fglock SageLT: is this a pugs file? I don't see it. Maybe it was meant to read <(...)> ? 21:14
SageLT Sorry, it's a P5 21:15
my mistake
Sorry bout that, forgot where I eevn got it from. Dang file's been giving me problems all morning
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rindolf IO::All! 21:20
TimToady: here?
audreyt: here?
With all the hardware failures on the Perl NOC perhaps someone should shell them the money to get high-end hardware. 21:21
For {perl,cpan}.org that is. 21:22
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SageLT Is ghc supported on intel macs? I just tried building some of my code for the first time on a Mac, and I get a slew of 'no such 386 instruction' errors, which would seem to be a problem targeting the processor. Is this a known bug? Is there a workaround? 21:30
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rindolf SageLT: also try #haskell 21:30
SageLT I was just looking for a good channel for haskell thanks
obra SageLT: there's a build. hang on. 21:31
SageLT Just figured with pugs being haskell based people might nkow here
obra (audrey pointed me at it ;)
SageLT obra: great!
rindolf audreyt is using Mac, right?
So does nothingmuch
TimToady seems to have an IBM laptop. 21:32
obra cvs.haskell.org/trac/ghc/wiki/X86OSXGhc
lambdabot Title: X86OSXGhc - GHC - Trac
obra That may be the right start
rindolf But Perl runs on anything remotely UNIXy.
SageLT obra: thanks
rindolf "All the world is a VAX, and all the actors are Unixes." 21:33
obra np.
rindolf This day was pretty quiet on Freenode.
Maybe it's Tisha B'av or something. 21:34
obra SageLT: how's the hacking been going, anyway? TimToady says you're doing good work :)
SageLT obra: Well, i hope I'm doing good work. I;m a but worried that I may not finish in time, but instead of worrying I'm working. 21:35
Worrying would only slow me down more, might as well just work
obra Indeed. 21:36
I _have_ to ask: have you tried feeding the p5 generated version of pugs Test.pm in? 21:37
SageLT With some code upgrades I'm about to push, I can at least partially translate about 98% of exising code, which a couple of annoying problems
I haven't tried feeding testInit.pm to pugs in some time, but I think it's about ready, I'll try it again sometime soon 21:38
obra Thats' very cool 21:39
SageLT I've haven't re-translated it in a while. It made a good first target since it's short enough to read through the yaml parse by hand, now I've been testing with a simple script that runs that translator across everything in t/op/ of perl5, with fairly good results. 21:40
obra Very cool.
svnbot6 r11907 | fglock++ | pX/v6 - fixed 'Match' return object in some contexts 21:46
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mdiep fglock: ping 22:14
clkao greetings 22:16
mdiep greetings, clkao. you're working on v6-alpha, yes? 22:18
I'm looking for a bit of direction jumping in 22:19
t/01-sanity seems to pass, but the first test after that seemed to hang when I ran it
clkao i had been working on it. but not recently
mdiep ah, okay
clkao mdiep: which one?
rindolf Hi clkao 22:20
SageLT obra: I just tried installing the Mac haskell build you pointed me to, but when I try to run ghc or ghci it gives me an error about not finding a suitable version of /Library/Frameworks/Versions/A/GMP. Any clue what's up?
clkao iirc they all pass for me last i tried
rindolf clkao: how much time are you supposed to dedicate to svk?
clkao does it hang or is it just slow?
rindolf: supposed? i decide that myself
rindolf clkao: but you're employed to work on it.
clkao mdiep: install cache::filecache
if it's just slow
rindolf clkao: OK. 22:21
clkao rindolf: yes, and i can employ people to work on it as well
mdiep clkao: huh. it seems to be passing now. maybe it was just slow
clkao mdiep: ok. try having the cache
rindolf clkao: I'm now trying to get sponsorship, to do the random stuff I normally do.
clkao maybe we should suggest that *strongly* in makefile.pl ;)
rindolf: like what? ;)
obra SageLT: yeah. audrey talked me through this. hm. 22:22
I don't actually remember how to fix it 22:23
SageLT obra: if it's too much trouble, don't worry, I can just run an older ghci for now.
rindolf clkao: www.shlomifish.org/
lambdabot Title: Shlomi Fish' Homepage
obra ok. likely audrey has a canonical doc somewhere. I'm sorry I don't have a good reference handy
SageLT obra: no prob
mdiep t/data_types/hash pretty much hangs my whole machine though
rindolf clkao: thing is the things I work in at the job, while interesting are of no relevance to what I like to do. 22:24
mdiep I'm really looking for tests that aren't passing atm but could be with a bit of work
clkao you better find another job or live with it then
mdiep: oh ok.
mdiep: actually, in v6 the tests are copied if they are in manifest
but they are only in manifest if the test is passing.
rindolf clkao: did you read shlomif.livejournal.com/11004.html
mdiep ahh...
lambdabot Title: shlomif: Patronage and Self-Patronage
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clkao so it's basically regression guardian 22:25
rindolf clkao: that's why I'm trying to get a sponsorship.
clkao mdiep: use util/prove6 for the pugs test suite itself
[particle] hrmm, i'm getting v6.pm missing in @INC with util/prove6
clkao imo, you don't _try_ to get sponsorship. they come around to you when people think it worths it
in the worst case you can move to mountain and live with no cost and StFUaWSC 22:26
sorry i might be cynical 22:27
rindolf clkao: are you feeling alright?
[particle] wonders how those shirts came out
clkao cant be better
rindolf clkao: OK.
clkao [particle]: try make build_perl5 first
[particle]: and/or perl util/src_to_blib
see my use.perl for instruction, i can't remember them all 22:28
[particle] sure, i followed that
mdiep clkao: make build_perl6? from pugs/?
rindolf clkao: I also would like to publish two books.
mdiep err, build_perl5
[particle] i had it working before, then rebuilt
clkao build_perl5 ;) from toplevel pugs tree
[particle] now it's busted
rindolf One with essays and one with funny stories.
clkao [particle]: grr! i will take a look in a bit 22:29
[particle] take your time, clkao
mdiep but I can't use that makefile with install ghc :-)
clkao [particle]: there's no v6 in blib6/pugs/perl5 ?
mdiep: someone on my journal make a script to avoid using the makefile requiring ghc
[particle] ./lib, it's there 22:30
yeah, the script is ./make_build_perl5 i think
not windows friendly, but it's just a / vs \ prob
clkao when you can easily fix provided you have a commit bit... 22:31
rindolf Bleh! I hate these Israelis Jews that think it's acceptable for Israel to be constitutionally discriminatory.
Or that it's the Land of the Jews.
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[particle] clkao: sure, when i have cycles. i'm committed already :) 22:31
currently working on a perl6 harness for sharing parrot's p6regex tests 22:32
clkao [particle]: i already done that
[particle] clkao: where?
clkao [particle]: v6/t/regex.t
the harness is still in perl5. should be ported to perl6
[particle] that's what i'm doing
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clkao excellent 22:33
[particle] perl6 harness means written in perl 6
:)
i don't see a v6/t/regex.t
clkao Pugs-Compiler-Perl6/t/ 22:34
sorry my eyes skipped the 'perl6' ;)
[particle] np
pugs is a huge somewhat disorganized (to me) project, so it takes me a while to find what i'm looking for
clkao if only we have a source code index engine.... 22:35
[particle] krugle? :)
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clkao Enter Kasago 22:35
mdiep lxr?
clkao Kasago is on CPAN 22:36
mdiep util/prove6 has "#!/bin/perl". ew. 22:39
clkao uhm i didnt do it. it started as a shell script just running perl with some env 22:40
svnbot6 r11908 | Sage++ | Fixed code that resulted in errors when head was called on an empty list, along with other sanity checks. 22:46
r11908 | Sage++ | Revisions to regex handling, both in the general case and count modifiers. Regex errors also now give more informative error messages.
r11908 | Sage++ | With these fixes, 95%+ of perl5 t/op is handeled, with the only remaining errors being in parsing: a couple of regex problems and a very infuriating general error that I haven't been able to track down.
SageLT audreyt: you around? 22:53
[particle] what the heck did $@ become in p6? 23:04
i can't find it in the synopses
clkao $! 23:05
always $!
$? $@ and $! are all $ 23:06
$!
[particle] great, i wasn't sure which one it always was
clkao $? for system $@ for eval and $! for builtins 23:14
all confusing
[particle] ok( ! $! ?& $match, $description ); $! and diag $!; # :)
clkao excuse me, are you cursing? 23:20
[particle] perl6 is a vulgar language :) 23:21
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[particle] think this incantation will work?... 23:23
sub p6rule_is( $target, $pattern, $description?, :%todo ) {
my $match = $target ~~ /$pattern/;
ok( ! $! ?& $match, $description );
$! and diag $!;
}
i should add %todo to the end of ok() there 23:24
heck, i guess i could use like() instead of ok
clkao might be, i am guess the current v6 should already suppor tthose. not sure about ?& 23:25
[particle] like( $target, $pattern, $desc...)
?& is easy to write, if it doesn't support it.
lambdabot Maybe you meant: . v
[particle] lambdabot: bite me 23:26
clkao yep. i was going to suggest like. but iirc there's something about checking the match as well.
[particle] well, i can leave it as is for now
clkao commit it somewhere and lets see if it works? 23:27
[particle] it's a good start, and once i get v6 working , i can test it
hrmm, ok
11909: t/p6regex/p6regex.t 23:31
svnbot6 r11909 | particle++ | [t]: beginning of a perl6 test harness for parrot's p6regex tests
r11910 | particle++ | [t]: p6regex adds and changes, still not passing tests 23:46
clkao rx// is the same as // right? 23:52
[particle] i think so
i'm getting no such sub &p6rule_is ... with the haskell backend 23:53
perhaps it doesn't like the named / optional params 23:54
clkao (!) 23:57

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