pugs.blogs.com/dist/Perl6-Pugs-6.2.13.tar.gz released! | run.pugscode.org | spec.pugscode.org | paste: sial.org/pbot/perl6 | pugs.blogs.com
Set by audreyt on 17 October 2006.
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ferreira Anyone here already tried to mix the Takahashi method and S5? 01:25
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cj can anyone here read kanji? 01:37
www.bookshelf.jp/2ch/tech/1126103347.html
lambdabot Title: cygwin + mingwn + gcc 􏿽x91􏿽x8A􏿽x92k􏿽x8E􏿽xBA Part2, tinyurl.com/yxo7xw
cj I'm interested in the part where it talks about conftest.exe throwing an exception :) 01:38
don't know any other folks who are quite as good with languages than youse :)
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ozayam cj: I can help 02:50
but I think your question should've been "can anyone here read Japanese?" :)
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clkao audreyt++ # just because 03:49
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pasteling "TimToady" at 71.139.5.15 pasted "attempted translation of Japanese text" (39 lines, 1.5K) at sial.org/pbot/20636 05:10
TimToady cj: see paste 05:12
that's weird, it mangled some of the characters but not others... 05:15
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miyagawa_ I guess nopaste tries syntax formating and mangled UTF-8 bytes in between 05:16
TimToady try wall.org/~larry/try.txt for an unmangled version 05:19
or make miyagawa translated it. :)
*translate
miyagawa_ :)
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TimToady I suppose that would be Miyagawa-sensei in this case. :) 05:20
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TreyHarris TimToady: what would you consider an exemplar of DWIM in Perl 5, and in Perl 6? 06:21
(by exemplar, i mean most canonical, or most typical, or most obvious, or whatever... just the one to mention if you had to mention only one example) 06:22
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Limbic_Region salutations all 14:07
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Debolaz Salute Limbic_Region 14:08
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mr_ank greetings, L~R 14:16
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fglock hi 14:23
lunch & 14:29
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TimToady @tell TreyHarris for P5, maybe autovivification is the most useful DWIM. For P6, smart matching (and its use in switches) is perhaps a better example. 15:16
lambdabot Consider it noted.
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Debolaz en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_vaporware <- Should I remove perl 6 from this list? I mean, even though parrot could arguably belong there, I don't feel perl 6 itself classifies as vaporware and claiming it's been over a decade in development sounds just wrong. 15:31
lambdabot tinyurl.com/yhq7rz 15:32
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fglock Debolaz: rather than remove, how about explain how is the development going on and provide links ? 15:34
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TreyHarris TimToady: thanks! 15:37
lambdabot TreyHarris: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it.
PerlJam Debolaz: neither parrot nor perl6 are vaporware except in as much as they don't have a "product release" However the development releases are already useful and used. 15:39
Debolaz PerlJam: It is not my personal opinion that parrot is vaporware, but I do know many peopel who do feel that way. 15:41
s/peopel/people/ 15:42
PerlJam Debolaz: well, when you update the page you can put a note to the effect of what I just said :-) 15:43
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TreyHarris Debolaz: depending on your perspective, "it's" been "in development" for a couple years, for six years, for two decades, for five decades, or pick some arbitrary point in the history of computer science. :) but i can't see what happened in the mid-90's timeframe that would justify "over a decade" 15:44
nezcaz helo *
PerlJam TreyHarris: perl6 has been in development over a decade because perl5 was the one to throw away ;-) 15:45
TreyHarris unless you count starting with the Perl 5 release. (kind of odd, unless you assume that the clock on the next version of something always starts the moment the prior version is released)
PerlJam yes, the "over a decade" comment is just plain wrong.
Debolaz Well, actually it just says "a decade", not "over a decade". 15:46
Debolaz coughs.
PerlJam Perhaps the original author meant to start counting from the inception of Topaz?
Debolaz: still wrong.
TreyHarris what happened in 1996?
PerlJam nothing spectacular that I can remember. We were firmly in the era of widespread perl5 adoption and perl6 wasn't even a glimmer in someone's eye. 15:48
[particle] i'd classify parrot as vaporware, under the "Overambitious hype" definition in wikipedia's Vaporware entry 15:49
Debolaz I'll just remove perl 6 from the list.
I'm not removing parrot though.
TreyHarris in any case, that page would be fair game by my limited understanding of wikipedia policies for total deletion. there are no citations
[particle] but, i don't ever recall a date being set for parrot release, so perhaps it can't be called vaporware if there are no promises as to when it will be available 15:50
TreyHarris actually, there are four URLs. so removing every entry but those four would certainly be fairest game :)
PerlJam If perl6 isn't vaporware, then neither is parrot. 15:51
Debolaz PerlJam: That's not a logical conclusion since parrot isn't perl6. 15:52
Parrot can be vaporware (Not saying it is) without perl 6 being vaporware.
[particle] i doubt many in the technical community classify either as vaporware, as ars technica et al write articles and announcements about them 15:53
PerlJam true, but they both fail the "overambitious hype" test :-)
integral you can download parrot-xxx.tar.gz but not perl6-xxx.tar.gz :)
[particle] s/write/publish/
TreyHarris Debolaz: your edit wasn't technically valid. you can't remove or add a statement on wikipedia based on your understanding of it's validity. only based on external sources. but that page is such a mess, it probably doesn't matter.
Debolaz There were a lot of articles and announcements (And still is) about Duke Nukem Forever too though. :)
TreyHarris s/it's/its/
Debolaz TreyHarris: I probably should've phrased it differently. I'll elaborate on the talk page. 15:54
audreyt you can't download c++-x.y.z.tar.gz either 15:55
that doesn't mean C++ is vapourware :)
TreyHarris == audreyt 15:56
[particle] karma C
jabbot [particle]: C has karma of 124
lumi Slightly overrated 15:57
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integral audreyt: I meant implementation :) There's no tarball of the "official" perl6 yet 15:58
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audreyt there's no official C++ either... 16:00
Limbic_Region integral - just came in but word on the stree that the "official" perl 6 is a specification not an implementation
audreyt neither is there a parrot that patches PDDs... :)
*matches
but yes. there's no release of any software that matches the criterion of official perl6, which is pass 100% of tests with zero todos 16:01
in that sense it's definitely not released :)
Debolaz TreyHarris: Aight, added a bit to the talk page now. 16:04
TreyHarris Debolaz: i've removed almost everything from the page now anyway 16:08
PerlJam TreyHarris: it's interesting that you cite WP:NOR when WP:V seems to be more appropriate :) 16:13
TreyHarris PerlJam: WP:NOR always implies WP:V
PerlJam I'm just poking at you :) 16:14
TreyHarris but I was going for NOR, because I didn't want to spend the find verifying the sources, just ensuring they existed :)
s/find/time/
svnbot6 r14517 | fglock++ | v6 - The '-B' switch can now be used to invoke alternate backends. 16:16
r14517 | fglock++ | The default is '-BPugs::Emitter::Perl6::Perl5'.
r14518 | fglock++ | v6 - backend specification is better written as 16:22
r14518 | fglock++ | '-Bperl5:Pugs::Emitter::Perl6::Perl5'
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fglock v6/emitter is now open for hacking :) 16:33
svnbot6 r14519 | fglock++ | v6 - documented the -B switch in the POD
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cj thanks, TimToady 16:51
svnbot6 r14520 | fglock++ | v6 - improved "description" in POD - talk about each required module 17:00
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fglock I wonder if it makes sense to add a switch like '-GPugs::Grammar::Perl6' for selecting the v6.pm grammar 17:10
audreyt I think it does
[particle] are you going to have a switch for different ASTs?
fglock audreyt: cool - will do :)
[particle]: yes, it can be modular 17:11
[particle] so, then it's basically a generic vm
compiler/vm
fglock "if you can't write a complete program, add plugins" 17:12
audreyt TheSentenceBelowSolvesAllProblemExceptForTheSentenceBelowThat 17:13
fglock [particle]: the alternate compilers will still be based on the perl6 compilation subsystem (grammars, precedence parser)
audreyt OneMoreLevelOfIndirection
fglock [particle]: much like Parrot :)
audreyt TheProblemTheAboveSentenceCauses
[particle] sure, but you can write a C grammar, or a TAP grammar, or a patch grammar, with its own ast, and it's own emitter to <your vm lang here> 17:14
fglock [particle]: or you can write a grammar and use the p6 emitter for free
emitters
[particle] well, if the AST is the same 17:15
fglock btw, misc/pX/Common/Pugs-Compiler-Python ... 17:16
[particle] hrmm.... Pugs-Compiler-PIR
fglock PIR-in-perl5? :) 17:17
[particle] why not :)
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fglock done 17:24
svnbot6 r14521 | fglock++ | v6 - implemented -G switch for selecting the Grammar front-end.
r14521 | fglock++ | Default is '-Gperl5:Pugs::Grammar::Perl6'. Anything else is untested.
r14520 | fglock++ | v6 - improved "description" in POD - talk about each required module
[particle] what's with the repeated old commit logs, svnbot? 17:25
fglock it still requires Pugs::Grammar::Perl6, so you can modify small portions of the grammar if you want
svnbot6 r14522 | fglock++ | v6 - fixed hardcoded grammar reference 17:30
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svnbot6 r14523 | fglock++ | v6 - added YAML emitter '-Bperl5:Pugs::Emitter::Perl6::YAML' 17:46
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svnbot6 r14524 | fglock++ | v6 - don't try to run Perl::Tidy on non-perl5 code 17:49
avar does Perl 6 have a shorthand for my $subbbie_cache; sub subbie { return $subbie_cache if $subbie_cache; $subbie_cache = some_call() } 17:50
like sub subbie is Cached { some_call() }
audreyt "is cached" I think 17:52
S06
see if there's tests?
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fglock Lorn: hi 17:54
Lorn fglock: hi 17:55
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Lorn fglock: audrey is comming sunday, rigth? 17:55
fglock audreyt: Lorn will pick you up
at Sao Paulo airport 17:57
Lorn fglock: i achieve, contact with mago
avar audreyt: I'll check
audreyt fglock: cool! thanks 17:58
Lorn: how should I recognize you?
fglock Lorn: yes, we talked today
Lorn fglock: and we have a problem :) larry comming 1 nov, 11:30 and you 10:00 but, you can change your fly to the guarulhos airport? 17:59
fglock Lorn: Larry won't code to Sao Paulo - I'll send you a mail
s/code/come/ 18:00
Lorn audreyt: hi, i dont know yet :) i say to you tomorrow
fglock: [pt-br] ele n􏿽xE3o vai vir? [/pt-br] 18:01
avar audreyt: nope, no test case 18:02
where are the traits test cases?
audreyt /Users/audreyt/work/pugs/t/blocks/sub_parameter_traits.t 18:03
I think t/blocks/ should split into t/subs/
for things that are testing subs that is
fglock Lorn: I sent you a mail
avar audreyt: I'll poke it whet I get home probably:) 18:04
audreyt woot :)
avar argh 18:06
svnbot6 r14525 | avar++ | * rmed some whitespace to see if I can commit now 18:07
avar ghc >=6.4.1 is not is sarge
\o/
/o\
can I compile ghc 6.4.1 with 6.2.2 18:09
audreyt sure! 18:10
but when why don't you compile 6.6 with 6.2.2.
(remember to get extralibs and extract it in the same place in the main src)
avar uh, if 6.6 is out I can do that too:) 18:13
is the ghc version control publically accessible? 18:15
Debolaz TreyHarris: Seems like someone disputed removing parrot from the list (Among other things) 18:17
audreyt avar: sure, get the two tarballs at haskell.org/ghc/download_ghc_66.html 18:20
lambdabot Title: GHC: Download version 6.6
audreyt avar: and yes, see hackage.haskell.org/trac/ghc 18:21
lambdabot Title: GHC - Trac
Debolaz Hmm, no ghc 6.6 in portage. :/
Gothmog_ Try to write an ebuild, usually it's quite easy. 18:22
You may post it to the Gentoo bugzilla then...
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Debolaz Nah, I'm probably going back to FreeBSD soon anyway. 18:23
eviltwin_b <audreyt> but when why don't you compile 6.6 with 6.2.2.
is that supported?
avar is doing that right now 18:24
audreyt eviltwin_b: sure is 18:25
eviltwin_b hm, thought I saw 6.6 was not happy with <6.4 or something liek that 18:27
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eviltwin_b hm, ghc-6.6 *really* wants to live in /usr/local, doesn't it 18:49
(tried to install the binary distrib in /opt/local. result has mixed paths referring to /opt/local and /usr/local and doesn't actually work...) 18:50
mauke source distro works fine here
integral a ./configure --prefix=/opt/local has worked fine for me... 18:51
eviltwin_b (OSX PPC) 18:52
integral yes, that's what I've got.
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svnbot6 r14526 | fglock++ | v6 - implemented YAML grammar frontend. v6.pm can now parse & emit YAML using: 19:17
r14526 | fglock++ | perl -Ilib -e 'use v6-alpha' - --compile-only
r14526 | fglock++ | -Bperl5:Pugs::Emitter::Perl6::YAML -Gperl5:Pugs::Grammar::YAML
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svnbot6 r14527 | fglock++ | v6 - rename Pugs::Emitter::Perl6::YAML to Pugs::Emitter::YAML 19:23
fglock Perl6->YAML + YAML->Perl5 now works! 19:24
avar fglock: can you paste example Perl6->YAML output somwhere?:) 19:26
avar still compiling ghc
fglock avar: one sec
pasteling "fglock" at 200.17.89.80 pasted "example Perl6->YAML with v6.pm" (50 lines, 864B) at sial.org/pbot/20655 19:28
svnbot6 r14528 | fglock++ | v6 - Makefile.PL: changed 'YAML::Syck' from 'recommended' to 'required' 19:36
r14528 | fglock++ | - MANIFEST: add Pugs::Emitter::Perl6::Perl5 back
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PerlJam mine eyes doth play tricks on me. I read "Makeshift.PL" and had to do a double take. :) 19:39
fglock PerlJam: mixed up Makefile with YAML::Syck :) 19:41
Juerd PerlJam: use less '...' :)
Where ... can be any of drugs, alcohol, etc :)
kolibrie avar: ghc 6.6 is in unstable, if you want to pull from there
avar kolibrie: I don't 19:42
or is it not a PITA through some amazing blessing of dog? 19:43
kolibrie I don't know, I run unstable 19:44
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svnbot6 r14529 | fglock++ | v6 - initialize '$backend_identifier' to 'perl5' 19:52
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robotron hi 20:09
i have to write a little term paper about perl6, parrot and pugs. okay, i wrote my first line perl today. is there a good book for perl6 for not "so experienced" perl users? 20:12
PerlJam robotron: no.
robotron: Just "Perl 6 and Parrot Essentials" 20:13
robotron: which is hopelessly out of date :)
robotron oh, ok, thanks for the info
seano robotron: if this is for a PL course, is it too late to choose another language? 20:14
maybe one you're more familiar with, or one that is less rapidly-moving? 20:15
robotron nono, i could do it next year but: i have enough time left, i'm interessted in perl(6)
seano robotron: fair 'nuff. what languages do you use now? it just surprises me a bit to find someone interested in perl6 without perl5 background... 20:16
avar *** Could not load the "mtl" package in your GHC installation. 20:17
This is likely because the "extralibs" of GHC 6.6 was not built along with the base GHC distribution.
wraaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!!!!!!!
robotron well, the "classic" student languages pascal, c(++), java, bit of haskel, and other script-languages
fglock audreyt: ping 20:19
kolibrie robotron: one good place to start is spec.pugscode.org 20:20
lambdabot Title: Official Perl 6 Documentation
seano robotron: cool, broader selection than most students. 20:21
fglock audreyt: unping (just sent mail) 20:25
avar murders projects that post release notes that contain no dates 20:43
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robotron smal question: i dint find anything in the pugs-manpage to get parrot-bytecode 21:15
kolibrie robotron: parrotcode.org 21:19
lambdabot Title: Parrot Virtual Machine - parrotcode
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robotron kolibrie: i got parrot already 21:27
pugs can create pir-files, or? 21:28
avar finds trailing commas for meth/sub disambig odd 21:50
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