pugscode.org | temporary feather address: perl6.wall.org | sial.org/pbot/perl6 | ?eval [~] <m oo se> | We do Haskell, too | > reverse (show (scanl (*) 1 [1..] !! 4))
Set by allbery_b on 24 March 2007.
Jedai Tene: I think he rather wanted somethink like : 00:07
?eval sub each (%h, Code $block) { %h.kv.map:$block }; my %hash = <<a b c d>>; %hash.each:{ ($^a ~ $^b).say } 00:09
evalbot_r15939 Error: Named argument found where no matched parameter expected: ("block",Var $block)
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spinclad ?eval sub each (%h, Code $block) { %h.kv.map:$block }; my %hash = <<a b c d>>; %hash.each:{ ($^a ~ $^b).say } 00:12
evalbot_r15939 Error: Named argument found where no matched parameter expected: ("block",Var $block)
spinclad ?eval sub each (%h, Code $block) { %h.kv.map: $block }; my %hash = <<a b c d>>; %hash.each:{ ($^a ~ $^b).say }
evalbot_r15939 OUTPUT[ab␤cd␤] (Bool::True, Bool::True)
spinclad that, maybe
Jedai Yeah that :) 00:13
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svnbot6 r15940 | Darren_Duncan++ | ext/QDRDBMS/ : large updates to QDRDBMS.pm, AST.pm, smaller updates to Language.pod and 4 other code files 01:18
01:43 weinig|away is now known as weinig_ 01:50 tokuhirom is now known as toku_away_ 01:53 toku_away_ is now known as tokuhirom 01:56 perlbot joined, geoffb joined 02:06 edenc joined 02:10 agentzh joined
agentzh pugscode.org | sial.org/pbot/perl6 | ?eval [~] <m oo se> | We do Haskell, too | > reverse (show (scanl (*) 1 [1..] !! 4))
agentzh gaal: yep, i've got a new dog which costed me a lot. ;) Core 2 Duo E6600 and 1G RAM should be good for pugs-hacking. 02:22
lambdabot agentzh: You have 2 new messages. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read them.
agentzh has got a message which audreyt sent to him on 2006-11-27. lambdabot-- 02:24
jrockway email++ :) 02:25
agentzh jrockway: indeed
jrockway i'm thinking of whipping up a quick bot to email people messages when they're not around
agentzh wow 02:26
jrockway irc is much more convenient than email clients
agentzh but getting the email address of irc people is a bit tricky.
jrockway mailbot: my address is [email@hidden.address] mailbot mails [email@hidden.address] a confirmation number; person tells mailbot the number over irc; done
all the cool people would do it... hopefully :) 02:27
agentzh jrockway: coo
*cool
TimToady some of us check IRC more often than we check email. :)
jrockway actually, i'm in that group now 02:28
agentzh is not. ;)
jrockway i don't really like any mail clients, so i check once every 2 days
agentzh has installed winXP into his VirtualBox on ubuntu, so that tracking down issues specific to Win32 is easier. (no reboot needed) 02:31
02:36 esstone joined
pasteling "agentzh" at 221.131.66.101 pasted "Smoke Failure" (4 lines, 325B) at sial.org/pbot/24267 02:54
agentzh Hmm, seems to be a YAML::Syck issue 02:55
my YAML::Syck is already up to date :( 02:59
03:00 tokuhirom is now known as toku_away
agentzh my Test::TAP::Model and Test::TAP::HTMLMatrix are also up to date... 03:02
03:03 toku_away is now known as tokuhirom
cj anybody seen the beef? 03:16
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agentzh Hmm, neither YAML.pm nor YAML::Syck can parse smoke.yml properly. weird. 03:37
cj: you're having the same problem? 03:38
YAML Error: Couldn't parse single line value 03:40
Code: YAML_PARSE_ERR_SINGLE_LINE
Line: 3
Document: 1
at /usr/share/perl5/YAML.pm line 33
(sorry for flooding)
03:46 justatheory joined
agentzh i'm not a YAML expert...can't track further... 03:47
gaal, ingy: could you look into this? feather.perl6.nl/agent/tmp/smoke.yml 03:53
svnbot6 r15941 | agentz++ | testgraph.pl - now we defaults to smoke.yml instead of tests.yml 03:58
agentzh sees lots of new commits over the night. 03:59
04:04 offby2 joined 04:06 offby2 is now known as offby1
pasteling "agentzh" at 221.131.66.101 pasted "svk sync -s HEAD //mirror/pugs still fails with a fresh depotmap" (10 lines, 456B) at sial.org/pbot/24268 04:09
agentzh clkao: please look at the error above if you have the tuits. thank you :)
agentzh feels a bit helpless.
lunch &
ingy hi agentzh 04:12
04:21 SubStack joined
gaal looks to be the first colon in the inlined string 04:37
build_info: 'This is Perl6 ..... configuration:\n\tarchlib: ....' 04:38
sorry, the second one, that after tarchlib
should the emitter be escaping that?
crap, my system has become unstable. too bad, it had a nice uptime. 04:41
anyone know if errors like these: /usr/bin/w: Input/output error. Bus error" 04:42
svnbot6 r15942 | Darren_Duncan++ | ext/QDRDBMS/ : some entity renaming and other cleanup
gaal are indicative of memory problems, or disk problems?
bbiab...& 04:43
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agentzh gaal: it makes a lot of sense. 04:48
i think the single quotes (') used there should be double-quotes (").
hi, ingy
dduncan test 04:57
05:06 baest joined
ingy agentzh: do you need my help? 05:15
offby1 exam
agentzh ingy: yes 05:17
ingy what's up?
agentzh i have a malformed .yml
feather.perl6.nl/agent/tmp/smoke.yml
it was generated by YAML::Syck, or YAML 05:18
ingy isn't that like 9 million lines?
agentzh but i can't parse it using either YAML::Syck or YAML.
ingy: *nod*
ingy but it is likely due to one line
can you try to find that line?
agentzh YAML Error: Couldn't parse single line value 05:19
Code: YAML_PARSE_ERR_SINGLE_LINE
Line: 3
Document: 1
at /usr/share/perl5/YAML.pm line 33
this is the output of YAML.pm
it seems that the first line should use " instead of '.
not sure. but changing '...' to "..." makes the parser go further. 05:20
ingy yeah the build_info line is bad
agentzh so this is a YAML::Syck emitter problem?
ingy I think so
YAML.pm did not create that
agentzh i'll try YAML.pm to generate that .yml in pugs smoke system. 05:21
ingy: thanks for the help!
ingy YAML.pm might have it's own issues :\ but try it!
agentzh okay :)
ingy it's funny but the scape forms in YAML vary from double to single 05:22
agentzh has to do another 16min pugs smoke in order to regen the .yml file.
ingy "This has \"escaped quotes\""
'This has ''escaped quotes''' 05:23
agentzh yes.
i've noticed that.
ingy "''" is the only escape in single
if we used \' then we'd have to also support \\ 05:24
agentzh ah, i see.
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ingy double quoting is the only form that can serialize any string 05:24
agentzh k
hopefully audreyt will fix that soon :) 05:26
ingy yaml tries to balance human/machine readability
doesn't gaal hack on syck?
agentzh oh?
ingy or nothingmuch
I forget 05:27
maybe both
agentzh hehe
ingy maybe neither
agentzh: what is your locale?
agentzh US_en
"en_US.UTF-8"
ingy :) 05:28
agentzh ingy: another question...
ingy I'm zh_tw at the moment
05:28 ingy is now known as ingyzh, ingyzh is now known as ingy
ingy yes? 05:28
agentzh is it possible in Test::Base to reflect the motheds a particular block object has? 05:29
ingy yes
agentzh i mean "sections"
ingy hmm, I think so
let me test base
agentzh k
use Class::Inspector? 05:30
05:30 charsbar joined
ingy agentzh: rafb.net/p/I2uDsd35.txt 05:33
try running that
agentzh looking
ingy you'll see that you can easily inspect all the things you want 05:34
agentzh what is XXX?
ingy a module
:P
it dies with a YAML dump 05:35
it is arguably my most useful module
agentzh 1..1
Can't locate XXX.pm in @INC
ingy install it
agentzh wow 05:36
it's a real module?
ingy yes
agentzh awesome
05:36 gaal joined
ingy search.cpan.org/CPAN/authors/id/I/I....10.tar.gz 05:36
you can stick an XXX just about anywhere
also comes with WWW YYY and ZZZ :) 05:37
gaal well, that was a shame. ~10 mo uptime and a very big screen session flushed
ingy unfortunately XXX won't index
gaal CPAN is kid-safe?
ingy in CPAN because someone once had an XXX.pm and then deleted it 05:38
pause is goofy
hi gaal
gaal hey ingy
agentzh ingy: right, XXX can't be installed from the cpan utility.
ingy gaal: do you maintain YAML::Syck? 05:39
gaal I think I have commit rights 05:40
ingy agentzh: that's why I gave you the url ;)
agentzh ingy: XXX is so cool ;)
ingy++
ingy yeah it is! :) 05:41
gaal ingy: but that sounds like an underlying syck bug, no?
maybe workaroundable though. we know the syck version after all.
ingy yeah. maybe you can disable single quoting
basically it is doing this 05:42
05:42 devogon joined
ingy foo: 'Isn\'t this a bug' 05:42
which is invalid yaml
gaal hmm anyone remember the magical incantation to turn an svn co dir into a svk mirror? 05:43
ingy foo: 'Isn''t this a bug'
is valid and proper
gaal ingy: nod
i don't remember this being a configurable syck thing but I'll look
ingy nod 05:44
gaal there is some sort of treatment of SingleQuotes in JSON mode: 05:54
pasteling "gaal" at 192.115.25.249 pasted "in Dump(), similar treatment in Load()" (5 lines, 258B) at sial.org/pbot/24270
gaal not sure it's related to our problem though 05:55
agentzh gaal: Best.pm always tries the modules in order? 05:57
i'll make YAML appear before YAML::Syck 05:58
offby1 gaal: just thinking out loud, but: "find svndir -type d -name .svn -exec rm -rf {} ';'" followed by editing some file or other in ~/.svk ? 06:00
gaal agentzh: yes, it does
agentzh gaal: thanks
gaal offby1: heh, no, you have to actually construct the mirror database
offby1 aw nuts 06:01
oh well
gaal I thought there was a magical script that did it
but now cl says he doesn't know of it, so it probably doesn't exist. 06:02
agentzh heh, YAML.pm is much slower than syck. 06:05
but it works for me :) 06:08
hooray!
agentzh has a successful smoke.
gaal in that case, the kludgaround would be to munge pugs -V before dumping it. Ew :)
agentzh is uploading his smoke report for the first time in his life. :) 06:12
gaal agentzh: you can tweak config.yml and have that done automatically for you
agentzh oh?
looking
ah, i see 06:13
gaal agentzh: and another tip, install Compress::Bzip2 if you don't have it already
faster and smaller transfers.
agentzh gaal: okay!
installing
06:14 BooK_ joined
agentzh wow, setting concurrent to 2 reduces the smoke duration to 8 min. that's really impressive. 06:15
gaal yay 06:16
agentzh concurrent++
gaal I remember when they took less than 140 seconds...
agentzh too.
svnbot6 r15943 | gaal++ | * smokeserv-client.pl: provide hint when missing compression modules 06:18
pasteling "evalbot_r15942" at 194.145.200.126 pasted "Pugs build failure" (27 lines, 1.3K) at sial.org/pbot/24271 06:22
"evalbot_r15942" at 194.145.200.126 pasted "Pugs build failure" (113 lines, 4.7K) at sial.org/pbot/24272
gaal what is it with these make errors? 06:23
agentzh audreyt's pugs tree has some oddities. 06:28
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agentzh gaal: could you take a look at this svk problem? colabti.de/irclogger/irclogger_log/...sel=43#l67 06:33
lambdabot Title: #perl6 2007-04-17,Tue, tinyurl.com/22dwsv
svnbot6 r15944 | agentz++ | smoke facility - put YAML.pm before YAML::Syck since the current version of syck has troubles with single quotes in yaml
agentzh the behavior of svk on feather is just over my head... 06:36
gaal agentzh: sorry, if cl doesn't know about that I don't either...
06:36 baest joined
agentzh gaal: okay 06:36
understood :) 06:39
gaal eeeeeek! the flakiness appears to be caused by a bad disk. I should go offline now. 06:42
revoery &
s/v/c/
agentzh goes to use svn on feather. 06:48
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agentzh which signal should i use in order to kill a hanging pugs? 9 or 15? 07:18
agentzh is working on a timeout mechanism for pugs smoke. 07:19
07:23 jisom joined 07:34 drupek12 joined 07:39 levengli joined, ruoso joined 07:42 xinming joined
svnbot6 r15945 | agentz++ | * added util/timeout.pl for pugs auto-smoking 07:45
r15945 | agentz++ | * added util/t/02-timeout.t to test it (under *nix only)
agentzh gaal: please check util/timeout.pl for sanity :) 07:46
07:49 levengli left 07:53 elmex joined 07:56 falesca74 left
svnbot6 r15946 | agentz++ | util/timeout.pl - removed the hard-coded agentz 07:58
r15947 | agentz++ | util/t/02-timeout.t - no cleanup at exit 08:01
r15948 | agentz++ | 02-timeout.t - tried to make it more portable 08:04
r15949 | agentz++ | 02-timeout.t - fixed the greedy .* bug 08:07
agentzh bah, timeout.pl can't kill processes on feather... 08:14
08:14 baest joined
svnbot6 r15950 | agentz++ | timeout.pl - used signal 15 instead of 9 08:18
08:18 baest joined
svnbot6 r15951 | agentz++ | timeout.pl - more comments 08:33
08:40 buetow joined
svnbot6 r15952 | Darren_Duncan++ | ext/QDRDBMS/ : updates to AST.pm and 3 other code files 08:42
r15953 | agentz++ | timeout.pl - added checks to ensure it never kills itself 08:45
r15953 | agentz++ | timeout.t - added tests for it
08:50 esstone joined
agentzh Juerd: when is feather's load relatively low in a day? i'm going to do auto-smoke for pugs every 24 hours on feather. 08:58
Juerd agentzh: Night during CET 09:01
agentzh: Because the backups are made during daytime CET :)
CEDT at the moment ;) 09:02
agentzh Juerd: thanks 09:03
Juerd agentzh: Please nice the process 09:04
agentzh okay!
Juerd nice -n5 or something like it
And if possible, ulimit too :)
agentzh combine them? 09:05
Juerd Yes
agentzh k
Juerd nice is for the process (non-)priority, ulimit is to prevent it from crashing the machine 09:06
There are no standard memory restrictions on feather.
agentzh okay
thanks for the info :) 09:08
Juerd yw 09:09
09:10 dduncan left
svnbot6 r15955 | franck++ | File::Find : follow (or not) symlink with follow attribute 09:18
r15955 | franck++ | File::Util : code for isbin filetype
r15956 | franck++ | fr translation fro Local-KeyedText
r15957 | franck++ | minor modifications 09:21
09:36 baest joined
agentzh ouch, it takes so long to build pugs on feather... 09:43
Juerd Mostly because trac.cgi is such a resource hog 09:44
I don't know what it's used for all the time
But see top
agentzh Juerd: yes, i saw that.
09:57 Alias__ joined 10:19 IllvilJa joined 10:26 Limbic_Region joined
Limbic_Region @tell fglock you may be interested in use.perl.org/~philcrow/journal/33004 # looking for pugs grammar to return an AST 10:27
lambdabot Consider it noted.
Limbic_Region @tell audreyt you may be interested in use.perl.org/~philcrow/journal/33004 # looking for pugs grammar to return an AST
lambdabot Consider it noted.
Limbic_Region salutations all
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agentzh heh, nice is so nice. :) 10:44
and so is ulimit.
moritz well, ulimit is... limited ;-) 10:45
agentzh moritz: yes, that's exactly what i want :) 10:46
10:46 buetow joined
agentzh wants to set up autosmoke on feather tonight. 10:47
while smoking, i think if the cputime of a pugs instance exceeds 00:15:00, we'll have a good reason to kill it. 10:49
does it sound reasonable? 10:50
Juerd ulimit -t :)
agentzh Juerd: ulimit is not selective.
Juerd Selective how?
agentzh ulimit can set up a broad constraint 10:51
but that's not enough
Juerd You can stack them
moritz 15 minutes is not so much
Juerd Just start a new ulimited shell for each pugs instance
agentzh but...that means i'll have to modify the underlying smoking code. 10:52
Juerd Is there no environment variable to do this?
agentzh is there? i don't know.
Juerd You could even move the pugs binary out of the way, and wrap it.
agentzh hmm 10:53
10:54 jisom_ joined
agentzh sounds good 10:54
Juerd I've even wrapped /bin/false to fool automated processes into doing something else :)
(On a fully dedicated virtual server) 10:55
agentzh hehe 10:56
okay, "./pugs ..." is hard-coded in util/run-smoke.pl 10:58
i think it's easier to change that line of code. ;)
maybe i can introduce a HARNESS_PUGS environment. 11:01
Alias__ PUGS_HARNESS
If you're going to do it, use french ordering :)
agentzh Alias__: but HARNESS_PERL is already in use. 11:02
PUGS_HARNESS may lead to inconsistency.
Alias__ agentzh, consider it an improvement :)
agentzh oh my god...
Alias__ Anyways, it probably doesn't matter TOO much 11:03
agentzh *nod*
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agentzh 8 min smoking cycle is rather pleasing. ;) 11:06
Juerd Used to take more than an hour :) 11:07
Alias__ or like 2 or something?
agentzh lol
Alias__ (for a while there)
11:08 rissy joined
Limbic_Region what GHC is feather running these days? 11:13
agentzh 6.6 11:14
Limbic_Region hrm, I wonder how fast it would be using 6.7
agentzh Limbic_Region: smoking on feather is quite slow, fyi. 11:15
that is the result on my machine. ;)
Limbic_Region oh
well, smoke time on my machine is circa 30 minutes 11:16
agentzh with concurrent set to 1?
mine is 2. 11:17
Limbic_Region I was just getting to that
Juerd agentzh: What are your box's specs?
agentzh Intel Core 2 Duo E6600 2.4 GHz, 1 GB RAM, ASUS P5B-E motherboard
Limbic_Region I hacked in the code to get concurrency smoking on Win32 using Parallel::ForkManager 11:18
grrrr - I hate this client
agentzh Limbic_Region++
Limbic_Region unfortunately, part way through the smoke - one of the threads just dies intermittently and inconsistently 11:19
so yes, concurrency set to 1 and no whizbang ghc options either
agentzh :) 11:20
Limbic_Region I have an idea on how to isolate and fix it but I haven't had the tuits 11:21
then it forks 1 instance to run all the tests in that chunk 11:22
basically the way the current code works is it divides the total number of tests into equal chunks based off concurrent=n
those are out of order btw
agentzh is so happy that he is no longer suffering from win32
11:22 TimToady joined
moritz stopped suffering two years ago 11:23
Limbic_Region agentzh - well sure, and I could abandon it myself but then who would we have making sure it is still a viable option
agentzh Limbic_Region: yeah, that's a good point.
Limbic_Region there aren't that many folks using Win32 for parrot or pugs 11:24
agentzh and i bet there're fewer and fewer.
i'm only running windows in my virtual machine these days.
Limbic_Region well, at work I mostly run a real unix (HPUX, Solaris, AIX, etc) and at home Win32 11:25
while I have linux and cygwin as options at home, I feel comfortable in either enviornment
agentzh how about virus? 11:26
moritz viruses are overrated
if you know something about computers
Limbic_Region agentzh - most people get virii because they are idiots
grrrr
moritz
.oO(and don't use MSIE)
agentzh i think the situation is much more serious in .cn. 11:27
Alias__ moritz: Turn off firewall exception, keep up to date with Windows Update, and don't use IE or Outlook, and everything is fine, in my experience
<-- 5 years with no anti-virus, and no viruses
agentzh the viruses are ubiquitous here. 11:28
Alias__ The answer to "Well how do you know you don't have one if you don't run anti-virus" is "I install one from time to time to double check"
moritz Alias__: that's my opinion as well (except for the firewall - firewalls are there to separate networks)
Alias__: but I don't use it anymore
Alias__ moritz: The windows firewall might not be great, but it's something 11:29
Limbic_Region well, hw and sw based firewalls serve different purposes these days IMO
Alias__ Actually, I generally think the NAT is more important than the Win32 firewall anyways
moritz Alias__: not if you use IPv6
Alias__ NATs don't work with IPv6?
moritz and you don't need a firewall if you have no software working listening on open ports 11:30
Alias__: you don't need it, because you've got enough IPs
Limbic_Region moritz: I would never expect a hw based fw to block a program from accessing a remote network based on the program executable but rather on ports, src, dst, etc. A sw based firewall otoh
Alias__ moritz, I like it for the network isolate mostly
isolation
moritz Alias__: but that's not what it is made for 11:31
Alias__: and therefore not very secure
Alias__ moritz, Many technologies have their nice side-effects
An isolated self-managed network segment is a good thing 11:32
moritz Alias__: yes, but if you don't know if NAT works the way you think it does, you shouldn't use it for its side effects
with IPv6 that is
Alias__ :)
Anyways, I don't get viruses, so all is right in my world
xinming agentzh: ping 11:45
agentzh: Why are you looking for me please? :-P 11:46
agentzh xinming: hi 11:50
xinming agentzh: hi
agentzh just want to ask you if you would like to go to YAPC::Beijing 2007 held in the next month.
xinming agentzh: sorry, I won't. >_< 11:51
agentzh: No money, no airplane ticket. :-)
agentzh xinming: hehe. okay.
fair enough :) 11:52
11:52 gaal joined
gaal moose 11:53
agentzh elk
moritz onion
11:55 fglock joined
gaal apparently my disk has some bad sectors near the end. I managed to pull a backup, but am wondering if it's possible to save it 11:55
moritz gaal: mine has bad sectors as well... 11:56
gaal: running fsck with the correct options help... 11:57
gaal: then the sectors are not used any more...
I just continue to get smart errors
gaal moritz: -c -c ? 11:58
moritz gaal: *checking* 11:59
gaal: yes, I think so
gaal I think I have 'em in my swap partition too. that probably means I should mkswap again, right?
after badblocksing it 12:00
moritz just don't get scared when the syslog scrolls over your terminal ;-)
gaal: on swap, that's bad... I don't know how linux handles that 12:01
gaal not get scared by disk errors eh? :)
moritz well, during badblocks check you'll get a lot of them in your syslog ;-)
and regular backups are vital ;-)
gaal that's always true and rarely done. :) 12:02
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gaal i'm just wondering whether to try something like spinrite, scrap this disk, or scrap this old laptop entirely 12:03
moritz gaal: well, you can never trust that disk entirely 12:04
if you have the money, replace it
Limbic_Region my experience has been, if your HD is giving you reason to believe it is time to be replaced - LISTEN TO IT 12:05
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Limbic_Region the hardest lesson was learned in the great hard drive crash of 02 when the backups would not restore 12:07
that lesson being, don't just create backups, test that they work
xinming Limbic_Region: using raid. :-)
Limbic_Region: use raid and backup often. can reduce your risk. 12:08
gaal okay, down for maint again.... & 12:10
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agentzh Juerd's ulimit solution works out so well on linux. now pugs smoking has reliable timeout mechanism on this platform. 12:15
there are some other hard-coded './pugs' calls in t/examples/*.t, which need to be fixed. 12:16
12:18 fglock joined
fglock Limbic_Region: pong 12:18
lambdabot fglock: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it.
fglock Limbic_Region: funny - officially, Perl6 is still not bootstrapped 12:20
OwlEye lambdabot, tell me all the messages!
svnbot6 r15958 | fglock++ | kp6 - added a test suite in t/kp6/ 12:25
r15958 | fglock++ | - implemented BIND() in a way compatible with the memory manager
Limbic_Region fglock - it was just an FYI 12:29
Juerd agentzh: IIRC it works on FreeBSD too 12:30
agentzh cool
Juerd: do the following lines look sufficient? 12:31
ulimit -t 120
nice -n5 ./pugs $*
do i need to restrict the memory use also?
Juerd agentzh: Yes, memory is more important than time even :)
fglock Limbic_Region: yep - I'm a bit tired of telling people about 6-on-6; I'll just finish it first
agentzh k
Juerd CPU usage just slows down
agentzh Juerd: ulimit -m 1000 -l 1000 ? 12:32
Juerd Memory use can cause processes to be killed; if unlucky, init.
agentzh: Something likethat
agentzh Juerd: is 1 GB too much for a smoke?
Juerd agentzh: Dunno 12:33
agentzh feather seems to have 2 GB RAM
Juerd Yes, it does
And little under 1 GB swap 12:34
agentzh k
pugs smoking often reaches 800 MB or 900 MB RAM on my machine. 12:35
Juerd That's fine
Almost nobody uses feather for make test anymore anyway.
agentzh really? i'm impressed.
Juerd I don't know what happened there 12:36
agentzh so that's fine for me.
Juerd Interactive feather use seems to be limited to IRC mostly :)
agentzh hehe
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svnbot6 r15959 | fglock++ | kp6 - directory cleanup; created temp/ for temporary development files 12:49
12:49 Psyche^_ joined, Psyche^_ is now known as Patterner
pasteling "evalbot_r15958" at 194.145.200.126 pasted "Pugs build failure" (254 lines, 14.4K) at sial.org/pbot/24283 12:58
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svnbot6 r15960 | fglock++ | kp6 - updated temp/ 13:04
r15961 | fglock++ | kp6 - remove temp/ (svn error in previous commit?) 13:07
13:08 jerrylee joined 13:11 tibbetts joined 13:15 fglock joined
svnbot6 r15962 | fglock++ | kp6 - fixed temp/ 13:15
13:17 camenix joined 13:20 HiTech69 joined 13:22 c6rbon joined 13:25 alecc joined 13:32 lanny joined
lanny agentzh: ping 13:32
@tell agentzh You need to use the latest SVN::Mirror to do the 'svk sync -s HEAD'. Find one in /home/lanny/perl/lib/perl5. 13:33
lambdabot Consider it noted.
13:36 fglock joined, [particle] joined
fglock Limbic_Region: I answered use.perl.org/~philcrow/journal/33004 13:36
lambdabot Title: Journal of philcrow (3401)
fglock Limbic_Region: thanks!
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svnbot6 r15963 | agentz++ | * run-smoke.pl now honours the HARNESS_PUGS environment which defaults to './pugs' 13:57
r15963 | agentz++ | * added util/limited_pugs for restricting './pugs' via the ulimit command in sh.
agentzh my svk has some problems with fglock's r15959 :( 13:59
lambdabot agentzh: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it.
agentzh lanny: thanks 14:00
14:03 fglock joined
fglock agentzh: something wrong happened in r15959 - I had to fix it in later commits 14:04
agentzh fglock: *nod*
but how can *i* work around it please?
fglock agentzh: sorry, I don't know 14:05
agentzh fglock: np :)
i'll ask clkao or gaal. 14:06
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[particle] /join #svk 14:08
agentzh [particle]: k
14:08 rfordinal joined
pasteling "evalbot_r15962" at 194.145.200.126 pasted "Pugs build failure" (353 lines, 20.3K) at sial.org/pbot/24284 14:09
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svnbot6 r15964 | fglock++ | kp6 - started BEGIN-side-effects processor 14:12
14:13 gaal joined, Psyche^ is now known as Patterner
fglock the .perl method is real cool as a built-in disassembler 14:14
.AST would be quite useful
I guess I'll just implement it 14:15
I'm currently doing: BEGIN-block -> compile ->run -> collect side-effects -> disassemble -> compile to AST -> add to tree 14:18
there is no point in disassembling and then recompiling
gaal ?eval Pugs::Internals::emit_yaml("foo(42)") 14:23
14:23 evalbot_r15939 is now known as evalbot_r15964
evalbot_r15964 Error: Unsafe function 'Pugs::Internals::emit_yaml' called under safe mode 14:23
gaal fglock: if that weren't unsafe, it'd emit the ast in yaml encoding. 14:24
svnbot6 r15965 | fglock++ | kp6 - added BEGIN disassemble+parse phase 14:25
moritz pugs -e 'say Pugs::Internals::emit_yaml("foo(42)")'|wc -c
243902
fglock gaal: I don't need to emit it in this phase; it's for internal use
gaal: how does pugs check for side-effects after a BEGIN block? 14:26
like, if a BEGIN block modified a global variable 14:27
jerrylee has anyone successfully run perl6 on activeperl 5.8.8? 14:32
run-mp6.pl, i mean
activeperl 5.8.8 build 820 14:33
gaal moritz: hehe, apparently filterUserDefinedPad isn't very correct :)
agentzh jerrylee: you've got a problem? 14:34
14:34 fglock joined
jerrylee as we tried yesterday i suspect it's 5.8.8 build 820 not capable of run mp6 14:34
fglock gaal: re emit - I mean, I don't need to serialize the AST, I only need it as data 14:35
agentzh jerrylee: i think it's mainly due to your lib.pm
gaal in what structure? ".perl" is on perlside as a string, obviosuly
re: BEGIN and side-effects, I don't remember! grep for "semantic analysis", ISTR it's related... 14:36
(still recovering disk...)
(live CDs++)
fglock gaal: I have some data in Env, I need to obtain some AST that represent the initialization of that data 14:37
ok - and good luck...
jerrylee agentzh: shall i upgrade it ? 14:39
14:43 fglock joined
fglock perl kp6-perl5.pl < t/kp6/06-begin.t | perltidy # current state of BEGIN blocks; needs some final work 14:44
agentzh jerrylee: reinstall your activeperl 5.8.8? 14:45
jerrylee not tried yet, ok i will try it
i used msi installation
agentzh then click repair or something.
(iirc) 14:46
svnbot6 r15966 | moritz++ | added perl6 "translation" of perlintro, not complete 14:49
fglock lunch &
jerrylee agentzh: ok 14:50
moritz in S05 it says "Ranges in enumerated character classes are indicated with ..." 14:52
but the examples after that use only double periods: " / <[a..z_]>* /" 14:53
I guess the double ones are correct, right?
agentzh moritz: is the third "." actually a full-stop? 14:54
i mean C<..>. 14:55
TimToady can't you tell it's in a different font? :)
moritz agentzh: possible
TimToady: perhaps my fonts don't differ enough in periods
;-)
agentzh remembered he once had such confusion too. 14:56
moritz you could clarify it nevertheless ;-)
TimToady now reads: are indicated with "C<..>" rather than "C<->".
agentzh TimToady++
moritz ok ;-) 14:57
agentzh oh, if i restrict each ./pugs instance to 100 MB RAM, only 77.25% of the test suite is in green. 15:01
when assigning 800 RM, the passing rate returns to the normal level (97.09%) 15:02
ulimit is so handy :) 15:03
moritz ulimit++ ;-) 15:05
TimToady careful, you might exceed ulimit's karma limit... 15:06
agentzh lol
moritz @karma ulimit 15:07
lambdabot ulimit has a karma of 1
gaal and then what, it'll kill itself? under some beliefs, that lowers its karma 15:08
moritz what was ulimit's limit again?
agentzh is being prevented from committing by his svk. :( 15:09
"Filesystem has no item: File not found: revision 397, path '/mirror/pugs/v6/v6-KindaPerl6/begin-block.pl'" 15:11
could anyone help me?
this time it's the svk on my own machine... 15:12
yay! svk sync -s HEAD solves my problem :) 15:14
(svk sync -s)++
svnbot6 r15967 | agentz++ | limited_pugs now limited to a cputime of 120 sec
r15968 | agentz++ | * made prove6 *nix friendly.
r15969 | agentz++ | * run-smoke.pl - some win32 love.
r15969 | agentz++ | * limited_pugs - added the 'nice -n5' and 'ulimit -v 800000' contraints.
agentzh sorry, but how to access environments from perl 6? 15:16
clkao $*ENV ?
agentzh clkao: ah, thanks :)
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franck__ agentzh: with %*ENV 15:20
jerrylee agentzh: which version and build of ActivePerl are you using?
i give up, i will install older version of perl
[particle] uses AS 5.8.8b817
agentzh franck__: oh, that's right.
jerrylee: ActivePerl 5.8.7
jerrylee [particle]: b820 cannot run mp6 correctly
agentzh: thanks :) 15:21
[particle] i have run mp6 in the past (last fall/winter) with this build
[particle] hasn't updated or run pugs in a while *blush*
jerrylee agentzh: which build?
agentzh a sec 15:22
jerrylee agentzh: 813 or 815?
agentzh 813, iirc.
i'm currently on ubuntu.
jerrylee agentzh: ok thanks :)
agentzh: not on win32?
agentzh i need to start VirtualBox to run WinXP.
i only have 1G RAM and i'm smoking pugs at this moment, so... 15:23
jerrylee agentzh: don't bother, i will try two version ;)
agentzh jerrylee++
jerrylee :)
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TimToady "I only have a billion bytes of RAM." The old guy boggles. 15:29
agentzh *grin* 15:31
TimToady mind you, the old guy has a billion and a half, but remembers a PDP-11 with 32K fondly. 15:34
though we called it "16K" because it was in 16-bit words... 15:35
agentzh ah 15:36
TimToady bytes were still pretty new-fangled back then.
[particle] word
moritz nibble 15:37
TimToady the notion that everything would be a multiple of bytes hadn't occurred to many folks yet.
agentzh a friend of mine once asked me why a byte is of 8 bits.
TimToady well, the PDP-8 my wife programmed in high school had 12-bit words
moritz agentzh: what did you answer?
[particle] TimToady: that reminds me of switching from saxophone to clarinet
moritz agentzh: "computer scientist love powers of two"? 15:38
agentzh moritz: i told him because ASCII code has 7 bits and the people want to feel safer and add one more
TimToady lol
moritz *g* nice explanation ;-)
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agentzh thanks :D 15:38
TimToady and then the Europeans all added one more, and did we feel safer?
I don't think so... 15:39
15:39 Blacksitox left
agentzh wants to hear TimToady's explanation. 15:40
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TimToady I think the ASCII explanation is basically correct, from a cultural point of view. When people started programming PDP-11s and doing a lot of string processing, they decided it was convenient that it came close to a power of two, and stuck with it. 15:41
and it was also fairly obvious about then that the next generation would be 32-bit processors, and then you get 4 chars into it. 15:42
but I think the powers-of-two argument was kind of a post-facto rationalization of the ASCII culture 15:43
basically, Pascal and C thought in bytes, so everything else followed along.
TimToady remembers various contortions of trying to rationalize the type system of C on some weird old architectures that were not amenable to bytes... 15:45
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TimToady and the term "byte" itself had not yet settled on 8 bits 15:46
moritz thinks of "mix", Donald E. Knuth's assembler, that doesn't rely on a fixed byte size
TimToady yes. 36-bit computers tended to use 6 bit characters
[particle] octet is the correct term, but byte has become a synonym 15:47
TimToady byte is now the correct term. octet will die eventually
and go back to being 8 singers.
except for in standards documents, where it will likely remain a shibboleth 15:48
like "the data are" in Scientific American
when everyone else says "the data is" using it as a mass noun.
but you aren't allowed to be a good scientist if you say "the data is voluminous". 15:49
[particle] that always got me... datum is singular, no?
TimToady in latin
[particle] yes, in latin 15:50
TimToady I speak English
nothingmuch data set
TimToady which is also wrong latin, since you'd probably need a different ending on data to use it as an adjective.
nothingmuch hmm
15:51 fglock joined
[particle] ataday 15:51
nothingmuch for some reason I thought you could say things like "plural_nown set" and it works, but now i see it's all wrong
for example: "cows set"
IS BORK
nown... sheesh
TimToady indeed, you've just shown that people who use "data set" are using data as a singular, I think. :) 15:52
nothingmuch yep =)
TimToady cool.
[particle] maybe it's "datas set"
TimToady "Used to be I couldn't spell 'lingrist', and now I are one..." 15:53
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nothingmuch TimToady++ 15:53
do you make these up on the fly? 15:54
TimToady well, it's an old linguistics joke
nothingmuch ah
bot generally?
TimToady that's why it has quotes around it
15:54 nipotan is now known as nipotaway
nothingmuch *but 15:54
TimToady generally, flies are not amenable to having things made up on them, I'll grant you.
I just twist things around in my head until they come out wrong, I guess. 15:55
nothingmuch bows down with great respect either way
[particle] and to think... there's a whole subculture that bows down with great respect at that.... 15:56
jerrylee finally my mp6 is working , on 5.8.7 build 813!
TimToady yay!
15:56 mlenz joined
jerrylee i swear something is wrong in 5.8.8 build 820 15:56
nothingmuch [particle]: ? 15:57
agentzh jerrylee: oh!
[particle] that last comment was to our flealess leader 15:58
jerrylee agentzh: thanks for your version suggestion ;)
[particle] clap! that was supposed to be flealess reader
agentzh jerrylee: np :)
[particle] but, my fingers digress. 15:59
jerrylee mp6 looks beautiful
agentzh thanks to fglock++ 16:00
fglock jerrylee: thanks :)
jerrylee :D
nothingmuch [particle]: i just like jokes i can appreciate
i have a kinda strange taste for em, but TimToady's are like my dad's joke only consistently very high quality 16:01
i guess dad's jokes (which have occasional gems but are usually lame) kinda spoiled me
TimToady well, you only see the ones I take time to type, which gives some review time 16:02
if you had to live with me you'd get the bad ones too...
Glo often complains that I just throw them out to see if they're funny
[particle] fascinating that we get the family-approved comedy 16:03
or more properly, family-tested 16:04
moritz "smoke test through family members" - sounds like an april's fools joke ;-)
fglock wow - data serialization is tough 16:07
jerrylee good night guys, see you tomorrow 16:10
fglock re time to type - hackathons are so cool because you don't have to filter ideas (much)
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svnbot6 r15970 | agentz++ | t/examples/golfex.t now respects the HARNESS_PUGS env. 16:17
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moritz hat gerade zur neuen irssi-Version /upgrade-ed ;-) 16:26
irssi ist toll ;-)
mlenz sorry, wrong channel
moritz irssi upgrades change the order of the internal windows, though :( 16:27
fglock [particle]: does parrot has a way to log variable assignments? 16:29
svnbot6 r15971 | agentz++ | limited_pugs - now the cputime limitation is 300 sec
r15972 | agentz++ | added support for HARNESS_PUGS to t/examples/*.t
mlenz is / and \/ the same in non-/ delimited regexes? 16:30
[particle] fglock: log?
fglock [particle]: I need some way to know that $x was changed in BEGIN { $x++ } 16:31
without comparing the whole environment before and after 16:32
[particle] not that i can think of
TimToady mlenz: yes
mlenz: except / would be illegal 16:33
since punctuation is now all reserved.
[particle] fglock: can you get the behavior you want by using :init ?
mlenz vim's perl6.vim doesn't recognize both of them in { } delimited tokens
TimToady: ok, thanks
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TimToady the punctuation simplification should help vim inside regex, I suspect. 16:34
fglock [particle]: not sure what you mean; in 6-on-6, I'm adding a logger to Scalar.STORE
TimToady since you don't have to keep track of what's meta any more.
mlenz is scared of vim's regex dialect ;-) 16:36
offby1 it's coming for you!
mlenz and $/<foo> is the same as $<foo>, right? 16:37
agentzh has found a lot of invocation of './pugs' in the Perl 6 test suite, which means it's not neutral... 16:38
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TimToady mlenz: yes those are the same. 16:39
I figure we can just write a P6-to-vim translator at some point and be done with it. :)
agentzh is there an Perl 6 equivalent to Perl 5's $^X ? 16:40
*a
*equivalence
offby1 "equivalent" is correct 16:41
agentzh offby1: thanks
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TimToady agentzh: try $*EXECUTABLE_NAME 16:45
see docs/AES/S28draft.pod 16:46
agentzh TimToady: thank you!
16:46 franck__ joined
agentzh ?eval $*EXECUTABLE_NAME.say 16:47
16:47 evalbot_r15964 is now known as evalbot_r15972
evalbot_r15972 OUTPUT[␤] Bool::True 16:47
16:47 franck__ joined 16:48 moritz joined
TimToady locally prints "pugs". 16:48
afk & 16:50
svnbot6 r15973 | lwall++ | random cleanup, <unsp rethinks
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pasteling "evalbot_r15972" at 194.145.200.126 pasted "Pugs build failure" (337 lines, 18.4K) at sial.org/pbot/24289 16:51
svnbot6 r15974 | fglock++ | kp6 - fixed BEGIN env 16:56
r15975 | agentz++ | * removed HARNESS_PUGS from *.t to ensure its independency
r15975 | agentz++ | * added one task to t/TASKS:
r15975 | agentz++ | ** substitute '$*EXECUTABLE_NAME' for all occurrences of './pugs' and 'pugs' in the tests after pugs supports it.
agentzh sees audreyt's activities on feather :) 16:58
17:08 brian_d_f joined 17:20 Psyche^ joined 17:29 diakopter joined, ludan joined
ludan ola 17:29
gaal I have more bits of RAM than the world has people. 17:31
moritz gaal: I which I had that much ;-)
gaal donates a bit to moritz 17:32
moritz gaal: that will increase the speed of pugs build significantly
one bit more is one bit less in swap space ;-) 17:33
agentzh gaal: auto-smoke on feather will be daily. 17:36
xinming fglock: ping
17:36 Psyche^ is now known as Patterner
xinming fglock: for the test fixing. Do I need to remove the testing about testing wether running under win32? 17:37
gaal agentzh: cool.
agentzh gaal: the problem is the rev numbers for the pugs test suite and the pugs smoke results will differ. 17:40
because updating of the test suite will be much more frequent.
(once an hour)
so we will expect some mismatch between the tests and the test results. 17:41
gaal agentzh: I think this is a *wonderful* first approximation. 17:43
agentzh *nod* :)
gaal agentzh++! we can improve this later.
agentzh right :)
gaal (maybe add a note on autogenerated xrefs, though, warning of the slight out-of-syncness.) 17:44
svnbot6 r15976 | agentz++ | smartlinks.pl added pugs-smoke rev to the headers if smoke.yml is provided
gaal also, compilation cache and further optimizations might swing smokes back to the realm of fast. 17:46
agentzh looking forward to these improvements :)
it's still very slow on feather.
gaal how long does a smoke take on feather? 17:49
agentzh not sure, still smoking there. 17:50
i think it will be at least 10 times slower than my machine.
gaal I'm guessing about an hour, with average load
agentzh 80 min or so, i'd say. 17:51
gaal too slow to do on each commit, certainly.
agentzh yep
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moritz yay, working utf8 ;-) 17:52
fglock xinming: sorry, which test is that? 17:54
agentzh gaal: perlcabal.org/syn/S04.html (enjoy!) 17:55
lambdabot Title: S04
gaal am enjoying :) 17:57
agentzh :D 17:58
xinming fglock: hmm, I think I'll remove, It just made them $pugs = 'pugs.exe' 18:01
fglock: nothing much.
hmm, 18:02
nothing mroe.
:-P
svnbot6 r15977 | yiyihu++ | r15039@HomePc: xinming | 2007-01-11 23:49:51 +0800 18:11
r15977 | yiyihu++ | Make local branch for pugs.
r15977 | yiyihu++ | r16092@HomePc: xinming | 2007-04-18 02:10:47 +0800
r15977 | yiyihu++ | Replaced all './pugs' with $*EXECUTABLE_NAME in tests.
xinming oops
>_< 18:12
Why will the Make local branch for pugs message pushed to server please?
agentzh xinming: try 'svk push --verbatim' 18:14
(that's what i've been doing.)
xinming agentzh: I don't think It's the problem of lacking -v option. 18:15
Just one commit revision.
agentzh i see. 18:16
Hmm, auto-smoke's pugs executables have a nice number of 10, which makes them run very slowly... 18:20
end of day for me & 18:21
18:22 agentzh left
specbot6 r14376 | larry++ | Note that unless no longer allows an else 18:25
r14376 | larry++ | Clarification of binding semantics of if, elsif, and else
r14376 | larry++ | Clarification of C<..>. requested by moritz++
18:26 offby1 joined 18:28 justatheory joined
specbot6 r14377 | larry++ | Neglected to mention that unless also allows binding of its false parameter 18:28
gaal @tell agentzh the wonders of the unix scheduler: they're slow because other--presumably interactive--sessions are demanding CPU. so the interactive tasks feel little slowdown. 18:37
lambdabot Consider it noted.
gaal @tell agentzh but once those interactive tasks take less CPU, the niced tasks will get their share. on an otherwise idle system a nice task doesn't suffer much. 18:38
lambdabot Consider it noted. 18:39
offby1 I'd have thought that interactive sessions spend most of their time blocked on keyboard or mouse input
Tene offby1: "tasks run from interactive sessions" then
offby1 well, I haven't read any scrollback, and am just spewing, so ignore me 18:40
TimToady reading scrollback never prevents me from spewing anyway... :/
gaal I'm just pointing out that trusting the scheduler is often a good idea. :) 18:41
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svnbot6 r15978 | fglock++ | kp6 - BEGIN run-time initializer is in place 18:47
offby1 ``When you believe in things that you don't understand, then you suffer ... Superstition ain't the way'' -- Steve Wonder 18:48
fglock I think this is the most scary code I ever wrote
offby1 fglock: have it printed on a bedsheet, then use that as a Halloween costume 18:49
fglock offby1: yes, I could use a graphical representation of it 18:50
offby1 idly wonders if they even _have_ Halloween in the Netherlands 18:51
moritz offby1: probably only imported halloween, not native halloween ;-)
fglock offby1: you mean Brazil?
offby1 fglock: I mean "wherever fglock is at the moment, which I surmise to be the Netherlands based on typing /whois fglock" 18:52
oh, *ahem*, it's feather.
duh.
offby1 glances around nervously. 18:53
fglock heh - that's feather address :) 18:54
19:05 fglock joined
svnbot6 r15979 | fglock++ | - kp6 TODO updates 19:05
fglock halloween is not much known here, really 19:06
offby1 Brasil? 19:10
svnbot6 r15980 | lwall++ | STD: fixed some recently introduced syntax errors 19:14
19:28 fglock joined
fglock offby1: yup - Brasil 19:28
svnbot6 r15981 | gaal++ | * smartlinks.pl: reduce html size by 5% by using classed css for results 19:32
offby1 fglock: is there anything like Mexico's "Day of the Dead"?
Limbic_Region perhaps known by "All Saints Day" 19:35
offby1 yup
19:36 perlbot joined
Limbic_Region offby1 - see en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Day_of_the_dead for applicability in Brazil 19:36
lambdabot Title: Day of the Dead - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
fglock offby1: "finados" here 19:37
it's a holiday :)
"all saints day" is "dia de todos os santos" - another holiday 19:38
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Limbic_Region fglock - it has been my experience that the Day of the Dead is observed on All Saints Day or All Souls Day (Nov 1, Nov 2). What day is it observed in Brazil? 19:50
oh, and my experience is limited to Mexico (used to live about 20 minutes from the border) and the Philippines (my wife) 19:53
fglock Limbic_Region: same days (I checked on google) 19:57
begin-blocks in perl6 will be fun 19:58
you can read a file at begin time, and the contents will be available at runtime, even if you run in another system 19:59
(the implementation is a nightmare)
it's funny that the implementation is so small; if you count the actual algorithm and the time it took to write it, I've been writing less than one line per day 20:03
moritz can somebody tell me a good example fro conjunctions (&) in p6 regexes? 20:04
fglock: short code != simple code ;-)
especially in perl ;-) 20:05
fglock hmm - I had an example, but I don't remember it right now
svnbot6 r15982 | fglock++ | kp6 - begin-initializers are actually called 20:09
20:21 macroron joined 20:22 REPLeffect joined
fglock hmm - scalars need to be created at INIT 20:29
no, at BEGIN
tricky 20:30
svnbot6 r15983 | gaal++ | * smartlinks.pl: a little more css factorouting. 20:36
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Yaakov HELLO LOVELY PERL6 PEOPLE 21:15
moritz no need to scream ;-)
Yaakov I wanted to be heard above the din.
21:27 geoffb joined, veritos joined
veritos hello, how would i go about getting a feather account? 21:36
PerlJam veritos: ask Juerd 21:37
(or anyone with appropriate sudo access. I do not know who belongs in this set of people)
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DarkWolf84 is away: I'm busy 23:00
svnbot6 r15984 | moritz++ | [perl6.vim] added WHAT and HOW methods 23:13
pasteling "evalbot_r15983" at 194.145.200.126 pasted "Pugs build failure" (301 lines, 16.7K) at sial.org/pbot/24291 23:16
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