Upgrade to YAML::Syck 0.85 before smoking | pugscode.org | sial.org/pbot/perl6 | ?eval [~] <m oo se> | We do Haskell, too | > reverse (show (scanl (*) 1 [1..] !! 4))
Set by agentzh on 22 April 2007.
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svnbot6 r16072 | karhu++ | Started writing rules engine for Pyrl 6. 02:59
jrockway pyrl? 03:02
svnbot6 r16073 | karhu++ | Added Ruby6--the next attempt to redo Redsix. Only this time
r16073 | karhu++ | it should work :)
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spinclad jrockway: perl6 in python 03:17
jrockway heh, what about python in perl6? then pyrl6 can compile itself :) 03:20
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agentzh yay, the last two autosmokes worked perfectly on feather :D 03:43
school &
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gaal @tell diakopter see Perl6::Bible on CPAN 04:28
lambdabot Consider it noted.
gaal re: yaml as a store, Test::TAP::* tools are not coupled to yaml specifically you know. using something else is a simple matter of coding. if someone really wants this then hopefully they can do it in Data::Serializer so that picking a format becomes changing a line in a policy file. 04:31
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svnbot6 r16074 | Darren_Duncan++ | ext/QDRDBMS/ : improved EntityName definition, implementation in AST.pm 07:19
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dduncan what is David Koenig known by here? 07:25
I have a question about Pyrl6
specifically, there is an issue with the misc/Pyrl6 directory as it currently is, where it can't unpack in a case-insensitive files system, as it contains folders named Pyrl and pyrl 07:26
this affects default installs of Mac OS X, and afaik Windows too 07:27
can one of those be renamed without trouble?
I asked for the id as there seems to be no such person in AUTHORS as I saw 07:28
karhu 07:29
it looks like from the Pugs log
seen karhu 07:30
looks like email time ...
gaal dduncan: fixing 07:31
dduncan oh, you'll do it ... okay then ... email cancelled
technically, I could have fixed it too, but thought I'd ask the author 07:32
in case something about the naming was significant
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dduncan thank you 07:32
gaal np 07:35
dduncan he should be in AUTHORS too, presumably
svnbot6 r16075 | gaal++ | * move Pyrl/ to lib/ to avoid clashes with the pyrl file on
r16075 | gaal++ | incasative filesystems. Note that this may have broken Pyrl;
r16075 | gaal++ | I'm sorry to say I don't know even enough python to check. But
r16075 | gaal++ | it unbreaks unpacking of the directory on Windows and MacOSX.
dduncan well, that resolved the issue for me 07:38
gaal moritz++ # iconography of irc logs
dduncan (Mac OS X)
gaal cool :)
dduncan not that I'm actually using Pyrl, but my regular runs of 'svk status' turned this up as a flag ... a tilde appeared in the left column for pyrl 07:39
gaal nodnod
dduncan different than the ! or ? you get for missing or extra items
gaal @tell veritos are you karhu? please review r16075 07:40
lambdabot Consider it noted.
clkao ~ means obstructed 07:48
that you have a dir but it's not a file or vice versa
gaal clkao: I have some tuits for svk appropriate today. is #svk logged? or could you just repeat the function call you mentioned about a week ago to associate a checkout with a depo? (I think that's what it was?) 07:53
(other possible names: bless, assimilate, borg, swallow, take, adopt...) 07:54
clkao gaal: whoot. topic of svk has the log url 07:56
gaal oh yay, found the log too: colabti.de/irclogger/irclogger_log/...7,Tue#l135 07:57
lambdabot Title: #svk 2007-04-17,Tue, tinyurl.com/25jyrm
gaal brb 07:59
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gaal rehi 08:12
moritz good morning ;)
gaal hey moritz 08:14
any Module::Install maintainers around? 08:19
using 0.65, I get different behavior with MakeMaker and Build 08:20
related to recommends().
with makemaker, recommends seems to be ignored
with module::build, not having the sufficient version aborts the build instead of getting the newer module autoinstalled 08:21
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gaal Task::Smoke 0.16 uploaded to PAUSE; requires the correct version of YAML::Syck on c-build capable systems. 09:15
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demq announces that perl5 now groks vV and hH as per the perl6 specification. 09:20
particle, thanks for your help with it.
and timtoady thanks for the kick to get it done 09:21
moritz demq: cool ;) 09:24
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dduncan you mean that 5.10 will do that, or do you refer to something else? 09:25
demq we also do \R which is NOT from the perl6 spec. but hopefully thats ok as it IS part of PCRE 7 and IS part of the unicode report:tr18.
rgs it does.
demq 5.10 will do it
moritz ok, then, release it ;-)
rgs it does since right now. :)
moritz: easy to say ! 09:26
I wish I could !
moritz rgs: I know, I'm just kidding ;)
dduncan On a tangent, any idea when 5.10 may come out? I'm hoping it would be early enough for Mac OS X 10.5 to bundle it.
rather than bundling 5.8.x
rgs "asap"
demq do you know how scary it is that you say that moritz? 09:27
dduncan regarding X 10.5, a "near final" will be given out on disks this June, with the final supposedly in October
the June being WWDC
moritz demq: no, I don't - what's scary about that?
rgs it will be late to upgrade
dduncan but hopefully they don't feature freeze meanwhile
rgs that's a major version
demq its a hefty responsibility.
rgs and there will be a 5.8.9 hopefully 09:28
moritz then is 5.8.9 the release candidate for 5.10?
s/is/will be/
dduncan no
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dduncan 5.9.x is the release candidate for 5.10 09:29
moritz oh right
I confused those
dduncan on that note, hopefully at least 5.9.5 will come out soon
gaal WWDC == ? Whole world domination convention?
dduncan Apple's main developer conference 09:30
gaal Ah. I was right then, kinda
dduncan I went to the one in 2001 on a student scholarship ... had a great time
but in the present day I have way more interest in Perl-focused or open source focused conventions
moritz let's hope they don't dominate the world - MacOS is kinda cute, but the don't take security really serious 09:31
dduncan how do you get that idea?
I hear that from FUD-sters
moritz dduncan: wait, searching for a link...
dduncan but I don't hear it from people that know anything, usually
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dduncan of course, the most memorable recent FUD was where Bill Gates himself said that people hack into OS X every single day, while Windows Vista has a much better track record 09:32
said in an interview around Vista's launch, when an interviewer asked him a comparison question 09:33
you certainly can't trust companies who sell security software for an unbiased opinion
moritz dduncan: I read it from a guy who earns his living with code audits, and he applied as security engineer at apple 09:34
dduncan I can understand that there is legitimate criticism, but I also know there is a lot of FUD, and the latter usually gets the press 09:35
but I'll look at your url if you find it
moritz dduncan: c9c3.blogspot.com/2007/04/apple-computers.html 09:37
lambdabot Title: jf: Apple Computers
dduncan looking ...
that looks like a good link, thanks 09:39
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moritz np 09:41
dduncan having now read it all, I see the article raised some good points in the start, though at the same time seems to have sabotaged itself in how the interview was handled ... there may be evidence of security practices from looking at the code, but I wouldn't have seen it from the partial interview itself 09:51
moritz dduncan: it's certainly not an overall assessment of macos security, but it points out that things aren't as shiny as they are seen by apple fan boys ;) 09:52
dduncan yes
personally, I prefer Macs as a platform for my use and recommendation to others, but I'm not an Apple Apologeticist 09:54
hm, bad spelling
rgs xmonad.org/ 09:56
lambdabot Title: xmonad : a tiling window manager
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moritz the description looks a bit like ion 09:58
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sili any recommended reading for static analysis? 10:46
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svnbot6 r16076 | Darren_Duncan++ | ext/QDRDBMS/ : large refactor of AST.pm 10:57
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svnbot6 r16077 | fglock++ | kp6 - new object model and containers 12:19
r16077 | fglock++ | - classes can be lexical: $object_prototype = class {...}
r16077 | fglock++ | - some tests pass
avar fglock++ 12:24
lumi I can't seem to upload a smoke, it tells me the html and yml files don't seem to correspond... 12:25
svnbot6 r16078 | fglock++ | kp6 - updated lib5/ 12:28
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svnbot6 r16079 | fglock++ | kp6 - updated infix:<~> 12:40
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svnbot6 r16080 | fglock++ | kp6 - updated GLOBAL::import, ::Int 13:01
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lumi Does anyone know the smoke harness, and why it wouldn't upload? 13:55
polettix lumi: a couple of days ago there were problems with some YAML stuff. I had issues until I updated to 16056 13:57
svnbot6 r16081 | fglock++ | kp6 - updated BIND semantics
polettix lumi: moreover, I remember someone urging us to upgrade to YAML::Syck 0.85
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lumi polettix: Thanks, I'll try updating everything and, failing that, recomplain :) 14:02
svnbot6 r16082 | fglock++ | kp6 - updated closure emitter 14:09
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veritos morning all 14:19
lambdabot veritos: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it.
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svnbot6 r16083 | fglock++ | kp6 - added 'Routine' 14:42
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veritos gaal: what were you messaging me about? 14:47
gaal: oh, nm. btw that will break it on Python. but i can take care of it later. i'll rename pyrl (the program) to pyrl.py or something. thanks for the help tho 14:50
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svnbot6 r16084 | fglock++ | kp6 - minor fixes, added error messages 15:12
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svnbot6 r16085 | fglock++ | kp6 - BIND returns the container 15:24
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diakopter perl6.nl's dns servers blinked for a minute. 15:37
wolverian and then magnet decided to take a nap 15:38
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veritos morning/evening/midnight 16:21
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rindolf Hi all. 16:37
TimToady: here?
Happy Israeli Independence Day Everyone! 16:38
Next year will be Israel's 60th anniversary.
moritz rindolf: without any offence intended, I don't know if that's a cause for joy and celebration 16:41
rindolf moritz: it is for us Israelis.
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rindolf moritz: but Indep Day in Israel tends to be very colloquial. 16:42
With plastic hammers, and spray cans, and food.
And Mangals (an Israeli form of Barbecue)
moritz sounds quite nice ;-)
rindolf moritz: I usually stay at home. 16:43
moritz: well, tomorrow, I'll go biking.
But I'm not going anywhere near Park Hayarkon, which I really like because there'll be a big show there. 16:44
avar In other news the 59th anniversary of everyone else in the region being pissed off at Israel, but in any case not really a topic for #perl6:) 16:52
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diakopter 59th? try 6000th-ish 16:54
avar hehe
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rindolf Lots of people are envious or Jealous of the Jews. 17:11
kane_ blinks 17:14
did i come into the wrong room?
elmex rofl
moritz kane_: depends on what you're here for 17:15
kane_ ... perl?
elmex haha
moritz kane_: but #perl6 traditionally has a bit of line noise
at least since I joined ;-)
kane_ ... is Jews a new programming language that has all the nifty features we want in it already? is that why we are envious?
kane_ confused
moritz kane_: it's a cool programming language, but you may not use it on sabbath ;) 17:16
[particle] jews runs on the torah virtual machine
rindolf Jews is programmed using the Aramaic alphabet. 17:17
kane_ ah, sabbath.. taht's that proprietary OS i've been hearing a lot about?
rindolf kane_: :-)
kane_ silly licensing terms
[particle] their killer app is mossad 17:18
moritz *g* 17:19
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diakopter rindolf: oh. I wasn't referring to Judaism. I meant the state of Israel. Calling a angry person "envious or jealous" to explain away their anger seems to be dodging any valid complaints the angry person might have. 17:57
rindolf diakopter: there are many problems with Israel, I admit.
And I'm an Israeli Jew. 17:58
diakopter: www.shlomifish.org/philosophy/polit...e-zionism/
lambdabot Title: Define "Zionism"
rindolf diakopter: but I was talking about the Jews.
diakopter: sf.org is my homesite ^^^
avar diakopter: You mean the terrorists don't hate our freedom?:) 17:59
PerlJam avar: nah, they're just jealous.
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PerlJam In any case, we need fewer angry people in the world I think 18:00
diakopter wait, which terrorists (Israelis or Americans), and whose freedom (humanity's or some people group's)?
sapir hmm? Israelis? terrorists? 18:01
diakopter I was merely making the point that avar's joke (while I got the intent) was unclear wrt its referents. 18:02
rindolf PerlJam: some terrorist leaders are envious in N-T terminolgy.
sapir ah I missed it
rindolf PerlJam: it's a variation of Jealousy where you want to destroy the value rather than have it for yourself.
PerlJam: if you're a good programmer (or whatever) and I want to be as good as you, then I'm jealous of you. 18:03
PerlJam rindolf: I know you're jealous of me. ;)
rindolf PerlJam: if on the other hand, I want to stop you from being a good programmer, then it's envy.
PerlJam: heh, yeah.
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avar I envy your ability to throw channels off-topic 18:04
>:)
rindolf avar: :-)
#lisp is only on-topic and as a result it's pretty boring. 18:05
diakopter rindolf: that's an absurd definition/use of 'envy'. For what you are describing as 'envious', more people would use 'psychopathic' or 'amoral'. How would someone try to stop someone else from being a good programmer? 18:09
rindolf diakopter: it's not the common definition.
diakopter: it's the one used in the Neo-Tech context.
diakopter um 18:10
rindolf: sorry, I'm not initiated into that knowledge cult
rindolf diakopter: it's not a cult.
diakopter rindolf: sorry, again, I was using 'cult' in its academic definition, not the common one. 18:11
rindolf diakopter: oh, OK.
No problem.
diakopter: here's my guide to N-T : www.shlomifish.org/philosophy/philo...-neo-tech/
lambdabot Title: Guide to the Online Neo-Tech Resources, tinyurl.com/cqc8b 18:12
rindolf diakopter: do you mean "cult" as in "metaphorplex"?
Similar to memeplex.
diakopter ... but hopefully with just as a pejorative undertone as the common definition.
rindolf Like Joel on Software, etc.
diakopter hunh; nice religion you have there. sorry; I'm not going to try to decipher what you mean by "metaphorplex". 18:15
PerlJam I don't recall rindolf asserting ownership or even profession of Neo-Tech. 18:17
rindolf PerlJam: ownership? 18:18
PerlJam: I have read a Neo-Tech book.
PerlJam: several times.
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PerlJam We all have our own pathologies 18:18
rindolf diakopter: N-T is not a religion. It's an idea system.
Or at least if it is, it's more than that.
One can claim that Perl is a religion too. 18:19
But it's also a useful tool, a culture, etc.
Judaism is also much more than a religion.
Back to Perl.
rindolf wants to become the Pope of Perl.
The Perl Messiah.
Larry is the Perl patriarch (sp?) 18:20
moritz rindolf: you can become the "rindolf" messiah ;-)
rindolf moritz: ah, that's also OK.
But N-T is in fact the anti-thesis of everything religious and mystical.
moritz has written a turing complemete language and interpreter (just as a toy), so now I'm its pope, messiah and implementor ;-) 18:21
rindolf moritz: everyone has written his own Turing-complete language at a point.
/me included
moritz rindolf: well, I did not until recently ;-)
rindolf Good thing I've still avoided writing my own IRC bot.
"Every program becomes more featureful until it can send mail." 18:22
elmex haha, i've been writing multiple irc bots and never released one :-/
moritz it wouldn't be that hard if only Net::IRC was documented properly ;-)
elmex there is still Net::IRC3 :->
moritz elmex: in perl?
elmex i've written irc bots in C, C++ and Perl
moritz so it's duplacted effort again *sigh* 18:24
elmex not at all 18:25
Net::IRC3 uses the new AnyEvent module
moritz why not?
I wrote an IRC logger the other day because collabti.de didn't work anymore
rindolf Most people nowadays use Bot::BasicBot or PoCoIrc 18:26
moritz and I searched for a perl irc logger that I might use, and I couldn't find any
elmex lol, Net::IRC2 is even mor ebadly documented than Net::IRC
rindolf I've avoided POE so far.
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elmex hehe, i don't like POE too. i fell in love with AnyEvent 18:26
heh, ok, Bot::BasicBot is nicer if you don't want to write the botlogic 18:27
moritz POE seems.. a bit heavy at first sight
elmex not only at first sight 18:28
i've tried it. it's a complete event and io-event solution that imposes a structure on your programs
some like the framework, some now
s/now/not/
PerlJam and will be obsolete or at least *really* simple to implement in Perl6/Parrot :)
(POE that is)
elmex yea 18:29
PerlJam elmex: those that don't like POE either don't understand it or they don't understand it :)
moritz doesn't understand it
PerlJam It's not a panacea no matter how hard you push it.
elmex PerlJam: i understand it, and i understood that i dont need it and want to manage things differently 18:30
PerlJam elmex: excellent!
elmex i've even used it to write an irc bot once
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elmex that even performed not too badly 18:30
PerlJam We're TMTOWTDI all the way up and all the way down.
elmex :-) 18:31
rindolf PerlJam: Uri Guttman said he's working on his own POE replacement.
elmex cool
lol
PerlJam rindolf: you're talking about stem?
rindolf In the latest Perlcast interview with him.
moritz yey, more implementations ;-)
rindolf PerlJam: I don't remember.
I wrote my own CMS, though.
But it's an offline CMS. 18:32
PerlJam stem really isn't a POE replacement IMHO.
moritz rindolf: I did, too ;-)
elmex reinventing the wheel is a nice thing, because they might become rounder than before :)
awwaiid or pointier... if you're into that sort of thing
PerlJam stem and POE are more like different philosophies of a similar idea. But sometimes which philosophy you choose matters.
rindolf elmex: "He who re-invents the wheel, may actually invent a much better wheel".
elmex right 18:33
that was what i meant
moritz actually I didn't want to write my own offline CMS, but I haven't found a suitable one
rindolf elmex: yes, I got you.
I was quoting myself.
elmex heh, k
moritz so the problem seems to be to find the software
elmex my enlgihs sucks at times, so i'm often not sure wheter ppl get me
rindolf moritz: my CMS grew out of the WML logic I copied and pasted to create my own sites.
moritz: and eventually concentrated it into one thing. 18:34
Which took some work, but was well worth it because I had less duplicate code.
I'm not sure too many people are using Latemp (my CMS) now.
But it's all there.
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moritz moose 18:52
irclogbot 1
moritz damned
irclogbot 1
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rindolf moose 18:56
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moritz moose 19:02
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moritz that's better now ;-) 19:02
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dduncan it seems that misc/Pyrl6 is borked again on case-insensitive systems ... it contains both a Pyrl.py and pyrl.py 20:18
therefore, on my box, even with a fresh pull and revert -R of the repository, svk status shows Pyrl.py as being modified when it wasn't, and so a commit could accidentally break that in the repo 20:19
avar windows-- 20:21
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moritz avar: macos x uses case insesitve filesystems by default as well 20:24
avar (mac os x)-- 20:25
veritos fixed, the config should be taken care of soon.
good to see people caring about it tho
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veritos anyway Pyrl.py (the library) will be going away soon. 20:27
what happened to the svnbot? 20:36
fglock_ if an object has a FETCH method, is it automatically considered a container? is FETCH called by default? 20:46
dduncan Mac OS X is what I'm using, as with a lot of us ... now I could probably reformat my disks case-sensitive, but I don't know what side-effects that may have for some programs 20:49
moritz dduncan: no, don't do that ;-) 20:50
fglock_ for example: does this calls FETCH? ( function_that_returns_an_object_that_can_FETCH() + 1 ) 20:52
veritos so what have the people who have so far seen Pyrl thought? 20:55
fglock_ veritos: sorry, haven't looked yet, 20:56
but do you think it can be made to run mp6 code?
that would be nice 20:57
veritos fglock_: once i get rules up-and-running it should be no problem.
fglock_ mp6 doesn't need rules, it has it's own engine
veritos fglock_: so i just need a tokenizer and parser? 20:58
i'll try later today.
fglock_ yes, and a minimal runtime
veritos fglock_: of course...
i need to go though...bye.
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fglock I'm a bit confused about when to call FETCH; I guess I'll create a separate 'call-method' for containers, 21:04
which means, for FETCH to be called automatically, the object must inherit/do 'Container'
& 21:05
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veritos hello 21:36
oh, also a question on the current channel topic: isn't reverse . show $ scanl (*) 1 [1..] !! 4 a bit cleaner? 21:37
moritz > reverse . show $ scanl (*) 1 [1..] !! 4 21:38
lambdabot "42"
moritz haskell will always be a secret to me
jrockway > 2 + 2 where 2 + 2 = 42 21:40
lambdabot Parse error
veritos reverse (show yada) = reverse . show yada = (.) reverse show yada
2 + 2 where (+) 2 2 = 42
> 2 + 2 where (+) 2 2 = 42
lambdabot Parse error
jrockway it works in ghci...
(uh, and ghc of course :)
veritos (+) 2 2 where (+) x y = 42
>(+) 2 2 where (+) x y = 42
> (+) 2 2 where (+) x y = 42
lambdabot Parse error
moritz Prelude> 2 + 2 where (+) 2 2 = 42 21:41
<interactive>:1:6: parse error on input `where'
veritos > let (*) x y = 42 in 9 * 6
lambdabot 42
jrockway > let 2 + 2 = 42 in 2 + 2
i'm apparently wrong btw
ENOTENOUGHHASKELLRECENTLY
veritos in the definition you have to do it prefix i think
jrockway nah, pattern matching 21:42
veritos > let (+) 2 2 = 42 in + 2 2
lambdabot Parse error
jrockway why am i thinking of where though
jrockway finds my slides where i did this and it works
moritz (+) 2 2 where (+) x y = 42 works in hugs
veritos hmm. ((+)2)2
> ((+)2)2
> ( ( + ) 2 ) 2 21:43
urgh. it should work... (+) :: Num -> Num -> Num
jrockway www.jrock.us/haskell_talk/takahashi...xt#page134
lambdabot tinyurl.com/ywuoc9
jrockway weird, i swear that used to work 21:44
damn time warps...
veritos works just now in ghci...maybe it's an older compiler.
jrockway ah, possible that i have an old ghci on this machine
veritos jrockway: do you run the lambdabot? 21:45
jrockway no
dons does, i assume
veritos wo
whoa, just cleaned my code significantly. 21:49
21:52 dmq joined
veritos ok, miniperl6-in-python got started...$PUGSROOT/v6/v6-Python. have fun. 22:06
moritz Sudoku ist... komisch 22:09
sorry, wrong channel ;-)
it's time for me to sleep, night &
22:22 stevan__ joined 22:24 BooK_ joined 22:44 theorbtwo joined 22:52 SubStack joined 22:59 vel joined 23:08 BooK joined 23:11 nperez joined 23:12 sbkhh joined 23:19 baest joined 23:27 BooK_ joined, sbkhh is now known as Odin- 23:30 dmpk2k joined 23:34 veritos joined 23:36 larsen_ joined
veritos ni hao 23:39
TimToady shalom 23:42
Patterner Moin moin 23:43
veritos TimToady: you're being discriminatory. only rindolf knows yours (natively of course). i have >= 2 people that can.
TimToady 今日は。 23:44
Also, I think most of your intended audience would prefer: 你好 23:47
veritos Error on dirc:38: Malformed UTF-8 character
miyagawa TimToday: こんにちは
TimToady ^_^
miyagawa TimToday: (better spelled in Hiragana so as not to be confused with "Today is...")
TimToady はい、宮川先生！ 23:48
is that right? 23:49
miyagawa yes! (except you don't need to call me 先生 :))
TimToady but you just taught me something!
I don't suppose your family knows which palace and which river, do they? 23:50

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