pugscode.org/ | sial.org/pbot/perl6
Set by agentzh on 7 June 2007.
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Limbic_Region salutations 00:22
moritz hi Limbic_Region ;)
Limbic_Region so has audreyt surfaced or is she still mostly away?
moritz @seen audreyt 00:23
Limbic_Region ?seen audreyt
hrm
moritz perlbot: seen audreyt
jabbot moritz: audreyt was seen 99 days 11 hours 13 minutes 38 seconds ago
moritz I don't quite believe jabbot,a nd I'm wondering why lambdabot isn't responding, but she doesn't seem to be too active 00:24
Limbic_Region I was just wondering if she was going to be at YAPC and if she was doing the hackathon(s) 00:26
jjore-w LR, are you? 00:27
I am.
jjore-w would be pretty happy to finally meet you.
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Limbic_Region sorry jjore-w - was AFK 00:31
Unfortunately no
Work is nuts at the moment 00:32
moritz are you talking about YAPC::Europe, or is there another soon?
Limbic_Region YAPC NA is in 2 weeks AFAIK
use.perl.org/yapc/07/06/11/0915206.shtml 00:33
jjore-w - will this be your first perl conference?
moritz what's wrong with lambdabot? no URL titles :( 00:34
Limbic_Region @tell moritz I have no idea 00:36
TimToady it's resting
Limbic_Region if we had a chan op we could kick and re-invite and see if that had any affect
shachaf moritz: Lambdabot is dead, you can use lambdabot2 for now. 00:37
TimToady when can we have a lambdabot6 that ignores initial @?
moritz shachaf: it's not about using it or not, but about reacting on m/^\@/ and URLs 00:39
shachaf: but thanks anyway ;)
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shachaf moritz: There you go. 00:41
Limbic_Region @seen audreyt 00:45
lambdabot2 audreyt is in #perl6 and #haskell. I don't know when audreyt last spoke.
Limbic_Region yay
thanks shachaf
moritz shachaf++ 00:47
shachaf moritz: Thank sorear.
moritz sorear++ # ;-)
sorear :) 00:48
shachaf moritz: This karma probably won't apply anyway when the real lambdabot comes back. :-)
moritz shachaf: perlbot still records karma ;)
perlbot: karma sorear
jabbot moritz: sorear has karma of 1
perlbot Karma for sorear: 1
sorear lambdabot2 is a real lambdabot, btw. it normally tends the backwater channels like #haskell.se 00:49
you hear about lambdabot because she's the one minding popular channels 00:50
moritz lambdabot is a she? actually I never thought about that before ;)
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sorear yeah. documented as such 00:51
shachaf @where lambdabot
lambdabot2 www.cse.unsw.edu.au/~dons/lambdabot.html
TimToady lambda ends with an 'a', which is usually feminine in Indo-European...
shachaf sorear: And they keep the same state, it seems (karma, @where, etc.)
moritz "It operates as a command line tool[...]"
sorear @listservers 00:52
lambdabot2 freenode
moritz that's not "she operates"...
sorear evidently they aren't the same process...
shachaf moritz: Just look at the picture.
TimToady I often called my kids "it" when they were young: "It wants a popsicle." 00:53
sorear hacked multiserver support into lambdabot back in Jan; suprisingly this feature has never been used.
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shachaf sorear: Do you know why lambdabot isn't answering, by the way? 00:53
00:53 justatheory joined
sorear shachaf: She's buggy and old. 00:54
Senile, rather.
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Aankhen`` Hmm, I think I'm starting to grok monads. 02:36
02:37 nperez joined
buu RUN. 02:37
Aankhen`` buu: Come on, nperez isn't all that bad.
buu Are you sure?
Aankhen`` Yup.
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sorear did not expect talk of monads in #perl6 02:44
Aankhen`` sorear: Welcome to #perl6. ;-)
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Aankhen`` If it hurts your head, it's probably been discussed here. 02:44
(s/your/my/ if you happen to be familiar with monads already.) 02:45
sorear Very much so - I'm a major helper on #haskell. But that's beside the point ;)
Aankhen`` Hehe. 02:46
I just started learning the language today for no apparent reason.
sorear A lot of people fin haskell hard for no apparent reason. 02:47
find
Aankhen`` shrugs.
I dunno yet whether it's hard.
I'm just trying to understand monads by following along with a Wikibook.
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sorear I'm pretty sure the wikibook didn't exist when I starded... 02:48
Aankhen`` Yeah, it seems to be a rather recent effort.
All the "EXERCISES: FIXME (add exercises)" were a major clue. 02:49
sorear hehe
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Khisanth ?eval for(1..10) { say } 04:41
evalbot_r16666 OUTPUT[ā¤ā¤ā¤ā¤ā¤ā¤ā¤ā¤ā¤ā¤] undef
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spinclad for (1..10) { .say } 04:46
?eval for (1..10) { .say } 04:47
evalbot_r16666 OUTPUT[1ā¤2ā¤3ā¤4ā¤5ā¤6ā¤7ā¤8ā¤9ā¤10ā¤] undef
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meppl good night 08:19
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thoughtpolice mornin' everybody. :) 10:17
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svnbot6 r16667 | moritz++ | [irclog] 11:08
r16667 | moritz++ | * complete rewrite of the output filtering, now it's in a neat HoH
r16667 | moritz++ | instead of nested functions
r16667 | moritz++ | * some whitespace fixes
r16668 | moritz++ | [irclog] fixed Linkifying of URLs with anchors that was broken in the previous 11:14
r16668 | moritz++ | commit
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lidden ?eval time 12:47
12:47 evalbot_r16666 is now known as evalbot_r16668
evalbot_r16668 235140727554681/1000000 12:47
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masak ?eval 1.0 * time 14:28
evalbot_r16668 58786706722629/250000 14:29
moritz ?eval time.say
masak um
evalbot_r16668 OUTPUT[235146838.806672ā¤] Bool::True
masak aha
[particle] pugs needs a dye job. her roots are showing. 14:31
moritz pugs needs a working parrot backend ;)
PerlJam moritz: so ... when will you have that completed? ;) 14:32
moritz PerlJam: first I have to learn a bit more haskell :(
[particle] funny, it's conference season, but nobody on pugs has mentioned that as a goal. i would have expected it.
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[particle] parrot is >< *this close* to running Test.pm 14:32
moritz PerlJam: yesterday I visited a haskell tutorial at debconf7 - I'm serious about pugs ;)
PerlJam [particle]: interest in pugs has waned? 14:33
[particle] maybe. interest in a parrot back end for pugs has waned.
moritz with audreyt being absent most of the time the driving force is missing
PerlJam yeah, haskell is more fun than parrot.
[particle] well, i predict soon you'll be writing perl 6 in perl 6 on parrot. 14:34
perl 6 is more fun than haskell
PerlJam moritz: it's not just audreyt but the cloud of people that come with her that matters. Enough of the cloud is absent.
moritz PerlJam: right :(
[particle] well, there's plenty to be done in the pugs repo now, than anyone can do. 14:35
PerlJam [particle]: I've made the same prediction for a couple of months now. (Where "soon" was "by OScon" or so)
[particle] pj: that's our goal. and i think the perl6/win32 bug has been squashed with chromatic's latest patch :) 14:37
PerlJam chromatic++ 14:38
He's been doing some not-very-fun-but-very-necessary work lately.
[particle] yes, that's what pugs needs too... and parrot perl6 will be driving it soon 14:39
specifically, the test suite needs refactoring
moritz [particle]: of what kind? 14:40
I hear that all the time, but never something more specific
[particle] to make sure it'll run on multiple implementations
moritz is willing to do some work on the p6 test suite 14:41
[particle] i expect there's some pugs-specific stuff that has crept into it
it's hard to test without a second implementation, though
moritz [particle]: somebody recently subsituted many 'pugs' calls to '$^INTERPRETER' or whatever the variable is called theses days
and I don't think there are any vv()'s in the test suite ;) 14:42
of course all the eval() for parse errors are pugs specific 14:43
perhaps when BEGIN-Blocks work we should move all plan $n; to BEGIN blocks? 14:44
but that wouldn't help very much
[particle] need to add pugs-specific todo info
moritz is that specced? 14:45
:todo<pugs> or something?
[particle] yes, it is
moritz wow
where?
[particle] lemme check the docs...
S02:220 14:46
moritz [particle]++
[particle] that will help us a lot 14:47
and also, making sure every test has a smartlink
moritz I did some cleanup some time ago, but it's a long, tedious task ;) 14:49
anyway, gotto go now
bye&
REPLeffect moritz: You said something about "audreyt being absent most of the time" ...
Is something going on that I didn't hear about?
moritz REPLeffect: Real Life I guess :( 14:50
now gone for real &
[particle] moritz: yes, long, tedious, and very welcome, thanks!
REPLeffect OK, I was hoping it wasn't medical problems again.
thoughtpolice hm. how far is the parrot backend from working? i take it pretty far? 15:00
[particle] it's just bitrot
some api changes
thoughtpolice hm. i'd be real interested in the haskell'ing part but I really need to familiarize myself with the source layout more
i oft wish there was a 'cscope for haskell.' :( 15:01
[particle] i'm not at all familiar with the interface, but if pointed to it, i could help somebody get it fixed
thoughtpolice hm. i might take you up on that offer. :) 15:02
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thoughtpolice hm most of pugs/src/Emit doesn't look too hard to modify 15:11
rewriting it may be worth looking into. :)
[particle] thoughtpolice++ 15:12
thoughtpolice it just looks fairly long but from a quick look over understanding it didn't seem terribly hard. 15:13
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jjore-w @seen limbic~region 15:22
lambdabot I haven't seen limbic~region.
lambdabot2 I haven't seen limbic~region.
jjore-w @seen limibc_region
lambdabot2 I haven't seen limibc_region.
lambdabot I haven't seen limibc_region.
jjore-w kant spel. 15:23
@seen limbic_region
lambdabot I saw limbic_region leaving #perl6 13h 42m 16s ago, and .
lambdabot2 I saw limbic_region leaving #perl6 13h 42m 16s ago, and .
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jjore-w pretty please. 15:23
gaal thoughtpolice: there is hasktags or a patch I made to exuberant ctags that help a lot 15:27
(I can set you up with a binary if you're on linux/x86)
thoughtpolice gaal: awesome! 15:36
gaal: i'm running openbsd and linux
gaal: if there's a patch to the source you can just provide me with that and I'll do the rest
i'll also give hasktags a shot too 15:37
now once someone gets a haskscope up that'll be pretty nice to have as well :) 15:38
hasktags should come in handy for src/Emit and src/Pugs/CodeGen though (which is I assume where most if the fun happens) 15:40
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gaal thoughtpolice: perlcabal.org/~gaal/ctags 15:54
@google ctags haskell
lambdabot2 planet.gentoo.org/developers/ferdy/...tus_update
Title: Fernando J. Pereda - Post details: Status update (alpha,haskell,ctags,...)
lambdabot planet.gentoo.org/developers/ferdy/...tus_update
Title: Fernando J. Pereda - Post details: Status update (alpha,haskell,ctags,...)
Title: Fernando J. Pereda - Post details: Status update (alpha,haskell,ctags,...), tinyurl.com/2x5sgv
lambdabot2 Title: Fernando J. Pereda - Post details: Status update (alpha,haskell,ctags,...), tinyurl.com/2x5sgv
gaal whoa, a laziness of lambdabots
(and that isn't even the hit I was aiming for) 15:55
thoughtpolice gaal: since hasktags can be pretty useful (especially on large source tree's,) has anybody suggested using it to build an index that people could use for a reference through the source? 15:56
gaal there's haddoc that does documentation and i think also source xreffing 16:13
thoughtpolice i saw the haddock-style comments through the source; is it hosted anywhere? 16:14
xref's would probably be better though
gaal thoughtpolice: also fwiw, with vim, you can do "grep -r ruleSubName src" and then use quickfix (:cc, :cn, :cl...) for navigation 16:15
(i actually set the grep command to be recursive. newer vims even have an internal vimgrep; and some people prefer ack to grep.)
thoughtpolice i'm an emacs man myself. :) 16:17
REPLeffect gaal: Did you mean awk, or is there an ack tool I'm not aware of?
[particle] cpan App::Ack
PerlJam Anyone who has used ack, prefers it to grep :) 16:19
(except for exceedingly simple tasks) 16:20
REPLeffect interesting. I've never heard of it (and I use grep all the time)
gaal thoughtpolice: "make haddock"
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thoughtpolice gaal: ah. :p 16:23
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gaal thoughtpolice: would be great to actually have that genned and put online; perhaps we could do that once trac is up again. but nobody seems to possess the tuits for that... 16:24
thoughtpolice gaal: haddock docs or hasktags? 16:25
i could write a quick script to get a full hasktags generated index (with formatting since apparently hasktags doesn't mind it much itself)
REPLeffect Hm. After reading the ack docs, I suspect I will continue to use a find/grep combo 16:26
[particle] what's it missing?
i'm mostly done with adding -A -B -C to ack (search with context)
REPLeffect The inability to grep files it doesn't know the type of. 16:27
thoughtpolice you could just set a cron to update it like every 20 minutes or so. if you're interested gaal it wouldn't be much trouble at all; with a little time I expect I could get the generated list to contain links to the source location.
[particle] the latest dev release adds --text
gaal thoughtpolice: haddock, and even hoogle .hoo files while we're at it :-)
[particle] and --skipped (to grep files it usually skips)
gaal thoughtpolice: that would be awesome! host it on feather? 16:28
[particle] and it has --all to search all files (but not normally skipped ones)
gaal thoughtpolice++
thoughtpolice gaal: sure.
REPLeffect (like the RCS/CVS, etc?)
[particle] REPLeffect: you should be able to ack --all --skipped foo and search *all* files 16:29
thoughtpolice speaking of feather who would I contact to get an account there?
REPLeffect interesting. Might be worth a look then.
What's the main advantage of ack?
[particle] it's great for svn working copies
and it works on windows
thoughtpolice gaal: if I put it on feather I could also might as well have my dir contain the haddock docs as well. I could talk to the admin about setting me up a cron for that.
REPLeffect grep works on Windows for me (cygwin) 16:30
[particle] REPLeffect: and it's perl, so if you want to add something, go ahead.
gaal is googling for juerd's email...
[particle] and i'm a committer, and andy lester created it.
[email@hidden.address]
REPLeffect real friends don't let friends use Windows without cygwin :-)
[particle] hateses cygwin
thoughtpolice [particle]: thanks. :)
gaal: i'll email juerd about an account and see if cron is possible for hasktags generated index (and even haddock too while we're at it since it wouldn't be much more trouble.) 16:31
gaal thoughtpolice: he asks that you email him the request with your real name
thoughtpolice gaal: np
gaal thoughtpolice: re: cron, easy as pie, just put it in your own crontab (crontab -e) 16:32
thoughtpolice ah. nice. :)
gaal does one of the bots have a "what's that moose's email?" feature? 16:33
[particle] juerd?
purl handles that on #parrot
thoughtpolice i dunno if lambdabot has specifically email, but you could use ?where for that
gaal ?where carmen sandiego
lambdabot I know nothing about carmen.
lambdabot2 I know nothing about carmen.
thoughtpolice gaal: email sent. 16:36
gaal cool
thoughtpolice :) hopefull by the end of the weekend we can have some haddock and hasktags online. :)
if life doesn't interfere 16:37
which could pose a problem.
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gaal just aim for positive interference 16:37
thoughtpolice i'll keep it in mind. 16:38
Juerd [particle]: pong 16:39
[particle] Juerd: just testing the bots to see if they'd provide your email address 16:40
thoughtpolice is looking for a feather account
Juerd As long as he lets feather users think what they want, he can get one :)
[particle] i'll put him on notice :)
gaal that's an interesting view, citizen 16:41
SamB maybe thoughtpolice is just making sure people do think ;-)
gaal i'm not sure the laws of physics allow that, actually 16:42
SamB why do you have two lambdabots here?
gaal isn't there a symmetry associated with stupidity? 16:43
SamB or, rather, two of the same lambdabot?
Juerd gaal: What are the penalties for breaking that law?
[particle] o/' think! think. think about what you're trying to do to me. o/`
gaal is lambdabot in Eq?
SamB @pid 16:44
thoughtpolice Juerd: i'm friendly. :)
SamB ?pid
why are they both acting dead?
Juerd thoughtpolice: I'll await your email
thoughtpolice Juerd: hm hope mutt/gmail isn't fowling up. 16:45
gaal Juerd: I don't know; what's the penalty for breaking the c speed limit?
thoughtpolice gaal: you get charged for 'breaking physics' and we hope that you have a backup. 16:46
gaal like all backups, it's the restore that's scary 16:47
thoughtpolice i'd rather be a little scared with a backup than SOL with none; especially in the case of those physics people talk about so much. they seem important. 16:48
gaal
.oO(resonance cascade)
 16:49
thoughtpolice @help unlambda 16:51
lambdabot unlambda <expr>. Evaluate an unlambda expression
lambdabot2 unlambda <expr>. Evaluate an unlambda expression
thoughtpolice figured. 16:52
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alecs hi ther 16:52
thoughtpolice i think the two lambdabots need to settle it though; I think fighting to the end is out of the question though
alecs: hi
[particle] @attack 16:53
lambdabot Unknown command, try @list
lambdabot2 Unknown command, try @list
thoughtpolice @fight-to-death
lambdabot Unknown command, try @list
lambdabot2 Unknown command, try @list
thoughtpolice :/
i know 16:54
@slap lambdabot2
lambdabot why on earth would I slap lambdabot2
lambdabot2 beats up lambdabot2
Juerd Speaking of backups
I need a better way of doing backups on feather
I want something in between tar and rsync
alecs i'm a noob in perl scripting . can anyone help/tell how to make/configure a scrip that adds ip addresses from the logs into the firewall ?
Juerd rsync doesn't repeat what it has already done (incremental tar is too scary), which is good 16:55
But rsync doesn't store permissions and ownership, which is bad.
[particle] alecs: you probably want the good folks at irc.perl.org#perl
thoughtpolice ouch. :(
Juerd tar is the other way around :(
[particle] alecs: we're talking about perl 6 here, you're probably using perl 5
Juerd alecs: And if you're using Perl 6, I'll get you an apple pie :) 16:56
thoughtpolice Juerd: hm I had something on backups a week or two ago; I'll try to find something (maybe there's a 'tarsync' around somewhere)
Juerd tar isn't indexed, so I doubt it.
gaal agrees that would be a great name
Juerd I want something that is fully omnicompatible
That is: if it isn'n on a standard KNOPPIX live cd, it's out of the question :)
Because indeed restoring is the scariest part 16:57
thoughtpolice darn. :/ 'cause I just found this: www.rsnapshot.org/
lambdabot2 Title: rsnapshot
lambdabot Title: rsnapshot
thoughtpolice it's written in perl too. appropriate. :)
Juerd That uses rsync, so I doubt it stores ownership without root access 16:58
gaal neighborly shower& 16:59
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thoughtpolice Juerd: hm well if I find anything useful I'll let you know. I'm pretty sure that there're more than 2 backup programs; ubiquity is the problem though. 17:00
so :(
Juerd I was thinking of maybe generating a shell script to restore ownership. 17:01
It would be a big bunch of
chown root:root /etc
etc
Heh. "etc" :)
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thoughtpolice Juerd: have you still not recieved my email? 17:24
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thoughtpolice hm. wondering, what revision control systems do you guys use? (I've fallen in love with darcs, but mercurial's been looking really interesting lately) 17:30
lluad I'm just migrating from CVS to subversion, so I'm way, way behind the fashion trend. :) 17:32
thoughtpolice quite. :) 17:34
i like decentralized approaches, although I don't have a problem with subversion really.
Juerd thoughtpolice: No, but you may be greylisted. 17:37
thoughtpolice: gmail mail can take several hours because they use MANY different source IPs, and don't re-use the same IP for the retries. 17:38
I haven't found a way to fix that problem yet - can't just whitelist them because they don't publish a list of IPs.
thoughtpolice Juerd: I thought so; I generally send my mail through mutt, but gmail acts as my smtp server
normally it's fairly snappy in delivery though :/ 17:39
lluad They have SPF records. You could rip a list of IPs from that, probably. Dunno if it's worth the bother.
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Juerd thoughtpolice: It is snappy, but it gets greylisted repeatedly. 17:49
thoughtpolice bummer. 17:51
TimToady gaal: that's very interesting what you said to BrowserUK about monads and semicolons. Makes me see a list of Capture as a kind of untyped monad literal, and statements vs slices vs flat as three contextual monads available by default in P6.
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TimToady using the term "monad" loosely, of course... 17:54
let's see, if statements are essentially IO monad, and flat is the list monad, what's a slice monad in Haskell...? 17:56
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TimToady is there some kind of monad that the dimensions of a subscript happen in the right order, or is that also just the list monad? 17:57
(not familiar with any array-slinging subset of H...) 17:58
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wolverian tries to grok that 18:02
thoughtpolice ditto
:)
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spinclad not aware of one, but i'm not really aware of more monads than IO, list, and Maybe (not familiar with almost all of Haskell...) 18:06
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thoughtpolice i think I know most of the base monads but I don't exactly know how to relate it with what TimToady is asking (probably because I can't follow it but that might just be me) 18:11
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gogonkt1 anyone know howto display big5, gbk in haskell? 18:21
are there lib for this? 18:22
moritz what do you mean by "display"? if your terminal runs that encoding, it shouldn't be a problem 18:24
gogonkt1: or do you want to convert it to/from other encondings?
gogonkt1 moritz: some irc channel use big5 or GBK , and my xp use gbk, so ... 18:26
moritz: I want print GBK in win cli 18:27
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moritz gogonkt1: google told me hackage.haskell.org/cgi-bin/hackage.../iconv-0.2 will do ;) 18:29
lambdabot tinyurl.com/26o5gf
lambdabot2 tinyurl.com/26o5gf
gogonkt1 =) 18:30
moritz though "It makes use of some knowledge of glibc's iconv that isn't guaranteed by the standard.
doesn't sound too good
gogonkt1 Thx! moritz , I'll try it 18:34
moritz gogonkt1: beeing in a perl channel, I should recommend using Perl and the Encode module ;) 18:36
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gogonkt1 I learning hs, it's new concept to me 18:38
perl do it in itself, not need lib 18:39
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gogonkt1 moritz: what keyword for that you google it? 18:44
moritz gogonkt1: haskell convert charset
gogonkt1 Oh! I got it 18:45
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gaal TimToady: I'm not sure I understand that. :) (and I still owe you some response to the multiline comment, but I'm pretty sure there's something there I'm not understanding yet either, so the response will wait a bit) 20:15
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meppl good night 22:51
23:28 nipotaway is now known as nipotan

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