pugscode.org/ | nopaste: sial.org/pbot/perl6 | pugs: [~] <m oo se> (or rakudo:, kp6:, elf: etc.) (or perl6: for all) | irclog: irc.pugscode.org/
Set by Tene on 29 July 2008.
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ruoso hmpf... 00:28
if a memory leak is hard to debug, a bad decrease in the refcount is even harder... 00:29
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FireMinion hey everyone 00:31
ruoso for some reason $scalar.FETCH() is being called without an invocant at some point... 00:39
pugs_svn r22713 | ruoso++ | [smop] working on fixing the mess in smop 00:40
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wayland76 It's just occurred to me; if we had a C -> Parrot compiler, then it'd be possible to write replacements for lex and yacc that run on parrot :) 01:20
ruoso: Ouch. This is when a big screen and a program state storer/reverser would be kinda cool. :) 01:21
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azawawi hi 03:42
lambdabot azawawi: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it.
azawawi @messages
lambdabot moritz_ asked 8h 5m 36s ago: did you write something about your syntax hilighter? a blog or something? if not, I could.
azawawi moritz_: ping 03:43
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wayland76 pang? :) 03:50
(oh, and hey to FireMinion, in response to his earlier message :) )
azawawi hi wayland76 03:54
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pugs_svn r22714 | azawawi++ | [STD_syntax_highlight] ETOOMUCHTIME script now copies required web 04:12
r22714 | azawawi++ | [STD_syntax_highlight] resources to the output html directory
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pugs_svn r22715 | azawawi++ | [STD_syntax_highlight] general cleanup, no more unused command line options 05:04
r22715 | azawawi++ | [STD_syntax_highlight] more compliant POD, passes podchecker
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pugs_svn r22716 | azawawi++ | [STD_Syntax_Highlighter] html files are now prefixed with an underscore 05:50
r22716 | azawawi++ | [STD_Syntax_Highlighter] to prevent cases like index.t->index.html
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moritz_ azawawi: pong 06:28
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Kitchy What's going to be the difference between Pugs and Rakudo? Anything? 06:47
Or is it just a race and just one will survive?
moritz_ both aim to implement Perl 6. We'll see if they succeed.
most likely they'll have different backends
Kitchy: there's no reason why not both should survive 06:48
but I think most perl hackers love the idea to write the compiler completely in Perl 6 as soon as possible, and bootstrap as soon as one of the current implementations is good enough for that 06:49
afk
azawawi moritz_: ping pong... ;-) 06:51
moritz_ s/ping pong/table tennis/ if you please ;) 06:52
azawawi: was [particle] said, you should blog about the syntax hilighter. 06:55
azawawi ;-)
or you can do it
sorry i forgot about it 06:56
moritz_ I could, if you don't want to
azawawi sure go ahead
moritz_ ok, I will (later today)
azawawi i need to fix the slow too-many nodes bug
reducing the number of nodes to nodes containing only text is like 50% of STD.pm but still 30K nodes is too much 06:57
wayland76 Kitchy: If I understand correctly, Pugs doesn't run on Parrot, thus, other things being equal, Rakudo appeals to me more :) 06:58
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azawawi moritz_: ? 07:20
moritz_ azawawi: yes? 07:21
azawawi moritz_: what pmurias's name?
moritz_ azawawi: Paweł Murias 07:22
azawawi moritz_: im updating the POD documentation on STD_syntax_highlight 07:24
moritz_ good.
azawawi documentation documentation ;-) 07:26
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pugs_svn r22717 | azawawi++ | [STD_syntax_highlight] added AUTHORS and cleaned up POD 07:50
r22717 | azawawi++ | [STD_syntax_highlight] ETOOMUCHTIME now copies JQuery to html at the end
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pmurias ruoso: re bvalue the problem with bvalue was that it should have receive a second parameter to a object which should be released after the bvalue disappears 09:05
i should have implemented it at once but i was too lazy and then forgot about it 09:13
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jauaor hello 09:49
masak jauaor: hi 09:51
rakudo: if ("f" ~~ m/f/) { my Match $m = $/; } 09:52
p6eval rakudo 31963: OUTPUT[Type check failed␤current instr.: 'parrot;Perl6Object;infix:=' pc 60 (src/gen_builtins.pir:52)␤]
jauaor hello masak
how are you?
masak jauaor: I'm fine. what can I do for you today?
jauaor masak: hah, good ... not much for now I think ... 09:53
just looking around :-)
masak jauaor: have a look at pugs and rakudo, and let me know if you have any questions. :)
jauaor with some free time lately and considering to look closer at perl6
masak it's worth it.
jauaor: you heard about November, the wiki engine?
jauaor masak: sure I will ... mainly rakudo ... I have already played a bit with pugs ... 09:54
masak: oh .. wiki engine .. in perl6?
masak aye
jauaor no I evidently have not
link?
masak github.com/viklund/november/
lambdabot Title: viklund's november at master — GitHub
masak www.november-wiki.org/
jauaor didn't know we already had whole projects in perl6 09:55
jauaor checks
lambdabot Title: Main_Page
masak jauaor: if you have free time, we'd love to have you aboard.
it's a great way to get to know Perl 6 and Rakudo
jauaor wow awesome 09:56
masak: oh, thanks! .. you know, I have been hanging around for a while now (araujo is my alter ego .. :-P)
azawawi moritz_: ? 09:57
hi masak
masak jauaor: ah.
jauaor even got a commit bit for pugs long ago .. sadly, I have had not enough time ...
masak jauaor: the one who meant "box of macaws" in Esperanto. :) 09:58
jauaor now with some free time at hands, I find perl6 really interesting, and I hope to keep a closer eye on it ... (and cooperating if possible)
masak: hahaha yeah
now I remember you
:-)
masak we all contribute at the level possible for each of us.
azawawi congratz masak++ on the november wiki p6 engine... im reading the PDF as we speak. 09:59
masak azawawi: thanks.
jauaor masak: you the author of november?
masak jauaor: one of them.
jauaor awesome
masak we like to think so, yes :)
jauaor masak: never played with rakudo, I will look into it 10:00
I have only barely run pugs
azawawi it is nice to see some real p6 apps in the wild ;-)
jauaor yeah, I do think so too
azawawi masak: any online link?
masak jauaor: I've found translating small scripts from p5 to Rakudo Perl 6 to be very instructive
azawawi: www.november-wiki.org/ 10:01
lambdabot Title: Main_Page
azawawi masak: does it cache anything or is this a straight CGI response? 10:02
jauaor masak: I guess that helps a lot yeah
masak azawawi: right now, no caching. it isn't hard to add, though.
furthermore, the version running on the page is months old, so much has changed 10:03
azawawi masak: so that's good rakudo performance ;-)
masak azawawi: well, pre-compiled modules helped a lot.
I don't think we can update until that works again in Rakudo 10:04
azawawi masak: precompiled module?
masak yes, let me fetch you my journal entry about it, hold on...
use.perl.org/~masak/journal/37263 10:05
lambdabot Title: Journal of masak (6289)
azawawi masak: if you need help with anything ajax, let me know ;-)
masak azawawi: I think we'll be at that point in early 2009
I'll let you know then
azawawi again masak++ after reading november.pdf 10:07
masak: btw, im nearly done optimizing the javascript for STD.pm syntax highlighted [77K nodes] 10:08
masak azawawi: cool
azawawi++
azawawi and next step is gonna be keyword+types highlighting...
masak: a cool thing would be to use STD_syntax_highlight for november wiki... ;-) 10:09
masak azawawi: yes. 10:10
it's definitely a possible use case.
sounds like a good fit for a plugin, too. 10:11
azawawi is thinking about a disk cache-able STD_syntax_highlight CGI script
masak we've sort of begun thinking about plugins in November
azawawi nice
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pmurias azawawi: how are you optimizing the js output? what i thought of doing is <span class="red">foo</span><span class="green">bar></span> 10:18
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ruoso pmurias, but even that way, I think it's the actual lookup that needs to be lazy, even to support autovivification as spec 10:35
azawawi pmurias: i used $("body").mousemove instead of $("span").mouseover... 10:38
pmurias: so instead of N span .mouseover bind/unbind, only one is needed... 10:39
pmurias: but it is not in svn yet... fixing a couple of bugs
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ruoso pmurias, anyway... that memory errors seems to be escalating... I decided to hunt them down and get everything on shape again 10:43
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pmurias ruoso: killing them as they appear seems to be the only solution 10:44
ruoso yeah... and we should put valgrind to run at make test...
to avoid not detecting them in time
pugs_svn r22718 | pmurias++ | [smop] valgrind is used to run make test 10:46
ruoso pmurias, I think lookup_key on s1p_hash is not working as expected... could you help me review it? 10:50
pmurias ok
ruoso just a note, lookup_key is the old postcircumfix:{ }... but it never return a bvalue... postcircumfix:{ } is now always lazy... 10:51
pmurias ruoso: it should be possible to modify SMOP_RELEASE and SMOP_REFERENCE to print their line number would it help? 10:52
ruoso I think it's already doing it
pmurias yes 10:53
ruoso pmurias, but the problem now is that lookup_key seems to be returning NULL at some point... which simply was not supposed to happen 10:54
that or m0ld is building a invocant-less capture somewhere... 10:56
actually... the later seems more likely
btw, I'm talking about test/15 10:59
pmurias ruoso: NULL is not supposed to be return by SMOP_DISPATCH ever? 11:02
ruoso yes... I know... 11:03
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ruoso ok... now that's weird... there seems to be an invocant returned by native_capture, because the last reference happens at native_capture.c:300 11:05
but the segfault happens at s1p_scalar:24 11:06
pugs_svn r22719 | pmurias++ | [smop] added SMOP_HUNT_NULLS option 11:11
r22720 | azawawi++ | [STD_syntax_highlight] optimized JS code so that only one mousemove is needed
r22720 | azawawi++ | [STD_syntax_highlight] instead of N nodes binding mouseover,mouseclick events (N*2)
azawawi pmurias: any hint why rx.t is so slow with STD tree traversal? 11:12
pmurias: it takes like 5600-5800 secs to process 11:13
ruoso pmurias, ok... found one problem... the S1P::Scalar prototype is being used as a value, but it is the RI for itself and doesn't special case itself... so it tries to use itself as a scalar...
pmurias the old fashioned prototypes are just looking for trouble you now 11:14
;)
ruoso :)
pmurias, the other problem I already spotted is using refcount on the prototypes that are visible as C symbols 11:15
azawawi @tell moritz_ how did u get STD.pm to work with STD_syntax_highlight... im getting unicode errors?
lambdabot Consider it noted.
pmurias ruoso: what's wrong with that?
ruoso: not having them as C symbols if possible would be best, as it would free as from having to take care of destroying them manualy 11:18
ruoso pmurias, the destruction order gets confused
pmurias, but some of these symbols are used in the destruction process of each other 11:19
pmurias the not being visible from C countes as 1 RELEASE in the prototypes in src/proto.ri right? 11:20
* counts
ruoso actually it would count as not doing an additional reference when adding them into the namespace hash 11:21
pmurias or do they get used via their C name?
ruoso yes, they do
azawawi i have one question, does that look right? feather.perl6.nl/~azawawi/html_for_...y_mmd.html
lambdabot Title: ./STD_syntax_highlight ../../t/spec/S02-builtin_data_types/array_mmd.t, tinyurl.com/6ex6qp
azawawi highlight array and you have 4 levels of identifiers 11:22
*@data to be specific
pmurias ruoso: do you think we could manage without storing the prototypes as C symbols? 11:23
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ruoso I don't think so, at least not easily 11:23
azawawi++ the syntax tree aside is very cool 11:24
azawawi ruoso: thx, but is right to have 4 nodes of identifiers?
ruoso: s/is /is it
ruoso pmurias, I think it should be easier to make the prototypes that are visible as C symbols not subject to gc 11:25
pmurias yes
and makes less of them visible as C symbols
ruoso so we need two meta-ri? 11:26
pmurias do we have 2 ?!
ruoso azawawi, it doesn't look right...
pmurias ruoso: sorry mis read
pmurias thinks very unclearly today 11:27
ruoso pmurias, I think src/ri.c should be the one not subject to gc...
pmurias and the one subject to gc would be?
ruoso hmmm... wait...
this is not a good idea...
they are prototypes for a reaosn 11:28
azawawi is thinking that infix::<..> is causing that strange behavior
ruoso you need to be able to call the methods of the prototype on it
it's just that it needs to special case calls in the RI
pmurias yes and src/ri.c is the this is an RI do *not* call methods on it thing
ruoso yeah... src/ri.c is for RI's that are not prototypes 11:30
pmurias the RI IMHO is supposed to handle method call for stuff like JIT
src/proto.ri is for the prototype
ruoso but it still only delegates new 11:31
azawawi finally rx.html works smoothly (49K nodes) over firefox,chrome and ie and no memory leaks or high cpu usage on exit/window.unload()...
pmurias it can be extended to delegate more thinks
* things
i thought of having it receive a list
it delegates new only as delegation other things by defaults seemed segfaulty 11:32
the way out of the loading/destruction insanity seems for me to me to split out a core set of RI's and loading the other ones with some loading api without putting them in a C symbol table 11:33
ruoso that's what I plan to do for the built-in types 11:34
but considering this small set of types we have in smop today.
we could simply have them as C symbols
and not subject to g
gc
azawawi @tell moritz_ FF3 performance/memory problem is now solved. Please feel free to blog anytime...
lambdabot Consider it noted.
pmurias ruoso: i think even the s1p stuff should be separated 11:35
ruoso maybe... but you need a hash to put ::Hash in the namespace... 11:36
pmurias personally i only succeded lately in adding stuff to the loading/destr sequence by repeated trial and error
we can have hash and lexicalprelude in the namespace too
* lexicalscope
ruoso er... and how is the namespace implemented, if not accessing the Hash by its C symbol 11:37
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ruoso and how do hash autovivifies without accessing Scalar by its C symbol 11:37
pmurias the lexical prelude dosn't need autovivication right? 11:38
ruoso hmmm... 11:39
I'm quite confused now... 11:41
but one thing I'm quite sure...
pmurias me is very confused today
ruoso: yes? 11:42
ruoso the problems in the destruction order are related to refcount-based destruction mixed with C-symbol availability
So i'd argue that we first make all of them not subject to gc first
then move some types out of it
pmurias it could work...
ruoso using the plugin thing
pmurias we could just destroy them all in a bunch without calling the _destr subs 11:43
just putting them in a list of things to be free'd without any fancy logic
ruoso there isn't a fancy logic... 11:44
just dependencies
the lists in src/internal.h is just this "list of things"
pmurias even dependencies seem "fancy logic" today for me ;) 11:45
ruoso heh 11:46
pmurias the one thing i think is important to have all the non-gc things destroyed after the gc thing 11:47
s
ruoso right... that's why I suggested that we first make them all not subject to gc
then reorganize
because it's easier to organize with the code actually working ;) 11:48
pmurias yes ;)
ruoso I'm turning SMOP__Proto__create gc-less
pmurias the RI dsl could support a %nongc 11:49
it's the ri.c you should change i think
ruoso ri.c is already gc-less 11:50
isn't it?
pmurias and proto.ri too
ruoso yes... I'm working on proto.ri
pmurias SMOP__RI__create creates gc ri's 11:51
ruoso ok... let's make the RI dsl building non-gc code first
pmurias we could have a %nongc flag
ruoso right... but I'd suggest just doing it gc-less and implementing %gc later 11:52
pmurias ok, we can fetch the gc version from revision control later 11:54
pugs_svn r22721 | ruoso++ | [smop] making C-visible prototypes gc-less 11:55
pmurias you don't need to change tools/ri then
ruoso pmurias, it's needed to change the destr code
from SMOP_RELEASE to plain free
take a look at s1p_scalar 11:56
and the call to SMOP__Proto__create is also different... 11:57
pmurias shopping& 11:58
pugs_svn r22722 | ruoso++ | [smop] s1p_scalar looks even better....
r22723 | ruoso++ | [smop] RI dsl is gc-less 12:02
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pmurias ruoso: assert(side_effect) is wrong 12:26
ruoso pmurias, where did I do it? 12:27
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pmurias smop_lowlevel_wrlock 12:29
ruoso hmm...
please fix it
pmurias download & reads pthread docs... 12:30
pugs_svn r22724 | ruoso++ | [smop] some more steps into making smop work again 12:33
pmurias s/download/downloads/
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ruoso pmurias, I think I'll change the RI dsl to make the init and destr in two steps 12:38
one for the declarations
and other for the mold initialization and destruction
that's one of the points where circular dependencies are arising...
pmurias makes sense 12:39
molds are garbage collectable so should be delt with before the RI freeing starts 12:42
ruoso yeah...
I think that was the reason I created the last stage in the smop init/destr sequence 12:43
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ruoso pmurias, prove doesn't have a "-e" option here 12:55
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pmurias ruoso: it might me from a different module 12:57
pugs_svn r22725 | ruoso++ | [smop] things starting to look better... 12:58
r22726 | azawawi++ | [STD_syntax_highlight] types and routines are now highlighted 13:04
r22726 | azawawi++ | [STD_syntax_highlight] light colors are now darker for better contrast
r22727 | ruoso++ | [smop] figures are a bit better... switched make test back to test::harness but using valgrind... fails 13/35 tests... 13:07
r22728 | azawawi++ | [STD_syntax_highlight] no more podchecker warnings 13:10
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pmurias ruoso: make test doesn't work for me now 13:13
ruoso heh... 13:14
which version of Test::Harness you have?
pmurias 3.13 13:15
pugs_svn r22729 | ruoso++ | [smop] a bit better 9/35 failures... but several leaks are starting to appear 13:16
ruoso pmurias, interesting... which error do you get? 13:17
pmurias Parse errors: No plan found in TAP output
ruoso weird 13:18
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pugs_svn r22730 | ruoso++ | [smop] 3/35 failures only... but a lot of leaks... 13:19
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azawawi rakudo: my @foo = <a b c d>; say @foo.exists(5); 13:21
p6eval rakudo 31963: OUTPUT[0␤]
azawawi rakudo: my @foo = <a b c d>; say @foo.exists(3);
p6eval rakudo 31963: OUTPUT[1␤]
azawawi rakudo: my @foo = <a b c d>; say @foo.exists(4);
p6eval rakudo 31963: OUTPUT[0␤]
azawawi question: .exists is a routine right? 13:22
anyone? 13:23
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pugs_svn r22731 | ruoso++ | [smop] 2 tests failing... even more leaks... 13:26
azawawi ruoso: i cant find 'exists' in STD.pm %routinename, is that right? 13:28
pugs_svn r22732 | ruoso++ | [smop] trying a different make test to see if that works for pmurias
ruoso azawawi, exists in that case should be a method name 13:29
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azawawi rakudo: my @foo = <a b c d>; say exists @foo, 4; 13:33
p6eval rakudo 31963: OUTPUT[0␤]
azawawi rakudo: my @foo = <a b c d>; say exists @foo, 0;
p6eval rakudo 31963: OUTPUT[1␤]
ruoso in that case exists is a sub
azawawi ruoso: aka a routine right? 13:34
masak nowadays :exists is an adverb, I think
but Rakudo hasn't been updated to reflect that
ruoso azawawi, yes, but in parsing terms methods and subs are very different things
method calls and sub calls I mean 13:35
azawawi ruoso: im interested in highlighting terms (i.e. coloring ;-)
ruoso then probably it still matters... sub call might be represented in different collors than method calls.... 13:36
azawawi ruoso: thx
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pugs_svn r22733 | ruoso++ | [smop] I think things are back in place, we now have a lot of leaks to fix 13:40
ruoso pmurias, btw... have you saw that we now have a 'knowhow' keyword and that it solves the mop circularity? 13:43
pugs_svn r22734 | azawawi++ | [STD_syntax_highlight] method ops are highlighted in bold black
r22734 | azawawi++ | [STD_syntax_highlight] added missing _routines and _type css
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pmurias ruoso: i saw it, it makes the mop non-circular 13:50
ruoso and it also allows us to make the compilation of src-s1p completely plain Perl 6 13:51
without a different compiler
pmurias but Class.HOW would returns the PurePrototypeHOW that way 13:53
ruoso yes...
pmurias knowhow is essentially is meta PurePrototypeHOW right? 13:54
as in Foo meta PurePrototypeHOW
ruoso yes... it's just that TimToady explained that he expected a different keyword for different metas
pmurias and how are anonymous metaclasses expected to be used? 13:55
ruoso my $foo = knowhow { ... } ? 13:56
ah... I see..
good question
$anonmeta Foo { ... } 13:57
pmurias no...
the propably be an is HOW(...) option in the end but using an different keyword is intended to prevent the abuse of the class keyword 13:58
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pmurias ruoso: so the current make test doesn't work for you? 13:59
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ruoso it woks... 13:59
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pmurias it doesn't work for me 14:00
ruoso even the latest one? 14:01
with prove?
pmurias i have to prove's on my system 14:02
s/to/2/ 14:03
ruoso hm
pmurias one came from TAP::Harness the other older one from somewhere else 14:04
ruoso that's why I try to keep /usr/local clean 14:06
pmurias you could check if your prove comes from TAP::Harness 14:08
ruoso it comes directly from perl core 14:10
it was installed by the "perl" package
pmurias so it's the old one 14:11
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ruoso pmurias, it can't be that old, since it comes with perl 5.1 14:12
5.10
pmurias judging from the copywrite it's 2 years old 14:13
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ruoso but it is the one that comes with perl 14:15
pmurias the TAP stuff was rewritten and perl 5.10 has the backwards compatible old version i think
ruoso I'd rather stick with that then requiring people to install yet another dependency
duzy discuss pct here? 14:16
pmurias parrot compiler tools? 14:18
ruoso pmurias, it seems that the mold frame is the one leaking... the other variables seems to be connected to it...
pmurias, I'm using test/35
duzy yeap
ruoso which has the shortest leak list
test/31, actually
duzy, #parrot@irc.perl.org will probably be more effective... 14:19
[particle]2 duzy: better to discuss that on ...yep
duzy thanks :)
joined, thanks guys :) 14:20
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pmurias ruoso: found it 14:30
pugs_svn r22735 | pmurias++ | [smop] fixed memory leak 14:32
pmurias do we really need S1P::Str? 14:36
s/really// 14:37
math& 14:40
ruoso pmurias, I don't think we need S1P::Str... 14:42
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pugs_svn r22736 | ruoso++ | [smop] solves S1P::Str leaks... 14:49
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ruoso there's still just a leak in test/15 15:15
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pugs_svn r22737 | lwall++ | [instance.t] fix two-terms-in-a-row syntax error 15:24
pmurias ruoso: found it, should i fix it?
ruoso pmurias, sure :P
pmurias it's a classic overwritting without freeing bug in bind_key 15:25
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pugs_svn r22738 | pmurias++ | [smop] removed unintendend circular reference from 15_hash 15:44
r22738 | pmurias++ | added a test_ target which works here
ruoso .oO( re-encoding a 1hour video in a laptop can hurt your leg ) 15:46
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ruoso pmurias, right... I think now we can think about having the plugin-loading of types... 15:48
and then we can start moving some types out to plugins 15:49
pmurias ruoso: it turned out to be a totally different bug in the test ;)
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pmurias Loader.load("typename") is the only thing that comes to my mind api-wise 15:54
or even load("typename")? 15:55
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ruoso pmurias, load("filename") ? 15:58
pmurias unless there is something specced it seems the best choice 16:00
not sure if it's the right time to implement it thought 16:01
ruoso S1PLoader? 16:02
oh... right time, not right name... ;)
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ruoso well... it might be the right time, since that's how we're going to load the files in src-s1p 16:03
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azawawi wonders when & from where is util/smartlinks.pl called to generate perlcabal.org/syn/S*.html? 16:06
[particle]2 probably a cron job on feather
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azawawi [particle]2: thx and does it take the latest util/smartlinks.pl from svn? 16:07
[particle]2 probably
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pugs_svn r22739 | azawawi++ | [util/smartlinks.pl] Added STD_syntax_highlight-ed hyperlinks 16:09
[particle] azawawi: will that mean that tests inside generated synopses will be syntax-highlighted? 16:10
azawawi [particle]: it will have a hyperlink to it.. but not in the same document 16:12
feather.perl6.nl/~azawawi/syn/
lambdabot Title: Index of /~azawawi/syn 16:13
[particle] hrmm
moritz_ that links to feather.perl6.nl/~azawawi/html/S02-...icode.html for example, which is empty
lambdabot moritz_: You have 2 new messages. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read them.
tinyurl.com/5zqyed
moritz_ @massages
lambdabot azawawi said 4h 58m 6s ago: how did u get STD.pm to work with STD_syntax_highlight... im getting unicode errors?
azawawi said 4h 38m 58s ago: FF3 performance/memory problem is now solved. Please feel free to blog anytime...
azawawi moritz_: since it fails, the html file size is 0 16:14
moritz_ ah
well, I didn't do anything. It just worked ;)
azawawi moritz_: when and where is perlcabal.org/syn html generated [via smartlinks.pl]? 16:16
moritz_ azawawi: some cronjob, dunno 16:18
azawawi: perhaps in agentzh's crontab 16:19
azawawi moritz_: but it will take the latest from svn, right? 16:20
moritz_ azawawi: it runs docs/feather/script/update-syn
that calls 'svn up', yes
azawawi moritz_: keywords, methods and types are highlighted now [being generated atm] 16:22
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azawawi moritz_: ? 16:54
moritz_ ! 16:55
azawawi moritz_: feather.perl6.nl/~azawawi/html/S02-...y_mmd.html
lambdabot Title: ./STD_syntax_highlight ../../t/spec/S02-builtin_data_types/array_mmd.t, tinyurl.com/597xtr
azawawi moritz_: highlight 'data'
moritz_: strange parse tree
moritz_ identifier identifier identifier identifier 16:56
ab5tract does anyone know if lwall's presentation about perl6 grammars at reflections|projections was taped? 16:57
azawawi moritz_: yeah happens with multi ...
moritz_ ab5tract: it wasn't about grammars, but it was taped, yes
www.acm.uiuc.edu/conference/2008/videos
lambdabot Title: Reflections | Projections 2008 : Videos
ab5tract he keeps mentioning "i'll explain that tomorrow in my talk about grammars" 16:58
moritz_ uuh
ab5tract in that video
moritz_ I no nothing about that one
but I guess it's similar to the one on google tech talk
azawawi: it's not the 'multi', but the slurpy '*' that leads to that strange parse 16:59
ab5tract ok
azawawi has finished generating the html-s... DONE ;-) 17:00
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azawawi moritz_: how did you generate STD_syntax_highlight for STD.pm? i always get a unicode error... 17:02
moritz_ azawawi: I just run it.
azawawi: maybe you have the wrong versions of the wrong modules installed
azawawi moritz_: ./STD_syntax_highlight STD.pm ?
moritz_ yes. 17:03
azawawi moritz_: that's strange... maybe feather has the wrong modules then... 17:04
moritz_: can u try it on feather1?
moritz_ maybe :(
azawawi is trying it on feather3 17:05
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moritz_ azawawi: I'll upgrade some modules... 17:06
azawawi: does ./tryfile STD.pm work for you?
ab5tract ha i didn't realize lwall == TimToady 17:07
moritz_ ;)
TimToady thinks TimToady is larry
[particle] ...what does he know... 17:08
moritz_ TimToady: slurpy array parameters seems to get parsed a bit weirdly - it has a tree of 'identifier' rules of depth 4
ab5tract lol.
pasteling "azawawi" at 212.38.153.250 pasted "./tryfile STD.pm output on feather1" (7 lines, 371B) at sial.org/pbot/32845 17:09
pugs_svn r22740 | lwall++ | [Cursor] generate shorter anonymous class names 17:10
17:11 Nullity left
moritz_ azawawi: I started my './STD_syntax_highlight STD.pm' a few minutes ago, and still no error (on feather1) 17:12
TimToady moritz_: yeah, something screwy there, viv shouldn't be spitting out STD classes... 17:13
ab5tract TimToady: i'm a big fan of the perl 6 rewrite.
moritz_ TimToady: that's even output from STD5_dump_match, I don't think it uses viv techniques
TimToady btw, my last checkin made "make testt" go from 57 minutes to 44 minutes 17:14
ab5tract: me too, except for the rewriting part :)
azawawi trying it
ab5tract hah :D
wasn't sure if you receive enough positive feedback. a substantial portion of the perl community seems to have written p6 off :( 17:15
but it ain't hard to tell that rakudo 1.0 is going to be a game changer 17:16
azawawi moritz_: what's your $PATH?
TimToady moritz_: probably missing a cursor_fresh or a SUBSUME somewhere that is confusing parse levels
moritz_ azawawi: /usr/local/bin:/usr/bin:/bin:/usr/bin/X11:/usr/games
TimToady ab5tract: when we have p6, a substantial portion of the perl community will write p6 back on again :) 17:17
so I don't worry about the writer-offers much, I just concentrate on finishing :) 17:18
ruoso TimToady++ # www.acm.uiuc.edu/conference/2008/videos is really cool 17:19
lambdabot Title: Reflections | Projections 2008 : Videos
TimToady well, that's more or less my standard stump speech
and yes, the grammar talk was a mutated form of the google talk, albeit with input from Al Aho :) 17:20
azawawi is svn down? 17:21
TimToady seems to be
svn: PROPFIND of '/pugs': SSL negotiation failed: Connection reset by peer (svn.pugscode.org) 17:22
azawawi same error but with http:
TimToady on the other hand, if you're on feather, that's the same machine... 17:23
moritz_ restarts apache
TimToady fixed 17:24
azawawi perfect 17:25
moritz_ /usr/local/bin/incredibly_ugly_hack_to_restart_apache++
TimToady that's what you call peddling hard to stay in the same place... :)
ab5tract TimToady: yeah. i was happy to hear about the "sprint to the finish" grant. 17:26
ab5tract wishes he had more money and time to donate to perl and parrot foundations 17:27
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ruoso does ::$foo means looking for $foo string as the name of a package? 17:28
TimToady looks like a syntax error to me 17:29
and to STD
ruoso how do I look for a package having a string with its name?
TimToady ::($foo)
ruoso ok...
TimToady sym refs are explicit in p6
17:29 meppl joined
TimToady also, :: isn't really a sigil, so it's not like @$arrayref 17:30
meppl good evening
pugs_svn r22741 | ruoso++ | [smop] P6Meta is now named Class and it is a knowhow, not a class 17:31
TimToady shower & # thinking about how to get rid of TRE 17:35
[particle] ab5tract: we'll happily take whatever money you do have ;) 17:40
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moritz_ all of it. ;-) 17:42
pugs_svn r22742 | ruoso++ | [smop] STD parses knowhow Class {...}... first shot on a "dispatch" method 17:43
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azawawi moritz_: Perfect. Perl6 Specs + STD syntax highlighting are now online... ;-) 17:48
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ruoso azawawi, the code examples inside the specs also? 17:54
moritz_ no
ruoso that would be cool 17:55
moritz_ I objected to that (because of too much load on the browser)
ruoso it could just be the syntax highlight... without the tree display 17:58
[particle] i'd like very much to see the examples and test snippets inside as highlighted 17:59
azawawi++ for this amazingly cool application of std
azawawi moritz_: i think we should generate an optimized version for inlined scenarios. Having lots of <SPAN> is really too much for any browser... 18:00
[particle] agreed
ruoso yeah.. .filtering out to include only the SPANs that represent highlight
azawawi Generally browsers can display 50k html elements in 3 secs on today's computers... 18:01
ruoso moritz_, maybe the display in the spec for the smartlinks could be enhanced a bit... like, showing the test number once, and than having two links...
s/test number/test name/ 18:02
azawawi STD.pm is ~77k nodes; filtered to text only nodes is like ~30k 18:03
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pmurias azawawi: i'll do it then 18:15
or do you have something started? 18:16
azawawi pmurias: no i was just thinking how to do it ;-)
pmurias: maybe --simple option to generate it 18:17
[particle] --filter=text-only
azawawi hmmm cool 18:18
pmurias color-only maybe?
azawawi --optimized also...
pmurias: please choose one and let us do it ;-) 18:19
TimToady maybe some solution involving indirecting each routine out to a separate file 18:20
or each subpackage 18:21
pmurias you mean to keep the structure and load each snippet with an iframe?
azawawi: i would go for --simple 18:22
ruoso pmurias, I undestood as generating more than one file at each pass
TimToady was thinking in terms of each function/package a clickable link
azawawi pmurias: if you use an iframe, then you have to put the foo.html on the same hostname [cross-site restrictions] 18:23
pmurias azawawi: what i'm thinking is to generate a tag only on color change
* thinking of
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pmurias azawawi: is parsing the CSS sane or do we convert it to YAML? 18:24
azawawi pmurias: parsing css is easy... no need for YAML for now. 18:25
pmurias: let us find things that have color; and then filter out the rest via a simple s{}{} 18:26
pmurias you mean lets instead of let us
azawawi ;-) 18:27
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ruoso azawawi, in fact, you could simply ignore elements which class is not present in the css 18:30
azawawi yup
after we finish this, i was thinking of doing a CGI version of it with a limited disk cache to enable easy web syntax highlighting. Cache key is the md5 of the input file sent... 18:35
ruoso a perl6 paste bot with syntax highlight ;) 18:37
azawawi an igoogle gadget with syntax highlight, ... etc ;-) 18:38
pmurias an irc bot 18:50
pugs_svn r22743 | pmurias++ | [STD_syntax_highlight] proof of concept simple option
azawawi is testing it 18:51
pmurias++: gr8 but it seems to remove newlines... 18:58
pmurias: my bad, works like a charm when you add <html>...<pre> tags to it 19:00
[particle] i'm curious about the size savings 19:01
azawawi it is not done yet; but will calculate it when done 19:02
[particle] ah, you're running it already :)
azawawi pmurias: do u need help with it? 19:03
pmurias it = ?
pmurias is currently eating cake 19:04
azawawi pmurias: it = --simple full implementation
lol
ruoso pmurias, I think it's time for we to review the REPR API
I started to play with Class and I realized it needs a lot of reworking...
pmurias ok
azawawi pmurias: im gonna continue working on your POC now... thx 19:05
pmurias ruoso: what do we need? 19:07
ruoso pmurias, well... at this moment it is declaring methods and multimethods separated
and it is an array instead of a hash
which looks quite awkward
19:08 eternaleye joined
ruoso well, it's only on array in the Class code, which is wrong 19:08
but splitting methods and multimethods might not be a good idea
19:10 [particle]1 joined
pmurias a multi method is view as a single Code right? 19:10
ruoso yeah... I think so..
but one thing that crossed my mind is the possibility of turning every Code object into a potential multi 19:11
pmurias we could change the List to a Hash?
ruoso meaning that every code would start being a multi of a single variant
and that every Code would support a method to traverse the variants
even if it has a single variant
pmurias i think it's fine 19:12
ruoso of course the dispatch would need to check for "only"
and stop there...
pmurias, have you seen the proposed multi sub implementation (the %mildew dispatch(...) {..} in s1p_multi.ri? 19:13
that code already implies that every code implements .variants()
ZuLuuuuuu hello, will we be able to use multiline comments in perl6? 19:14
[particle]1 yes
ZuLuuuuuu great, /* */ or something else?
[particle]1 perlcabal.org/syn/S02.html#Whitespa...d_Comments 19:15
lambdabot Title: S02
ZuLuuuuuu thanks 19:16
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ruoso TimToady, what do you think of turning every Code into a potential multi? meaning that every Code object would need to support .variants(), even if returning itself... 19:20
this simplifies the dispatching, because it could then be a single process of dispatch 19:21
which could stop when finding a proto or an only
19:21 [particle] left
ruoso assuming that for now... please shout if that is a bad idea... 19:27
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ruoso the REPR API lists Class storage... is there really a Class storage? or does everything goes to the lexical scope and through methods? 19:31
ruoso tempted to think that there's no such thing as Class storage 19:32
19:33 pochi left
ruoso will assume that also... again, please shout if that is a bad idea... 19:38
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TimToady seems fine, in the same sense that .[0] is a no-op on something that is not an array 19:41
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TimToady some MOP instances may choose to provide user storage, but p6 doesn't require it 19:42
ruoso TimToady, one last thing... can a Role have a submethod? 19:43
TimToady why not?
ruoso well.. it's not inheritable... it could be not composable... 19:44
TimToady to the first approximation, everything in a role just gets pasted into the class :)
ruoso ok... 19:45
I think I just realized how to solve the CGI::Simple ~~ CGI issue
TimToady well, that tests for the CGI role, not the CGI class
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ruoso well.. re-stating the issue... if some method has the signature :(CGI $query) 19:46
you want to be able to send a CGI::Simple object there 19:47
TimToady as long as CGI::Simple does CGI, you're fine
ruoso exactly... the thing is that CGI::Simple doesn't CGI
because CGI is that specific implementation
TimToady no, the CGI role can at most have a suggested implementation
ruoso (this issue is about bad design in signatures) 19:48
TimToady the CGI class has the real implementation
ruoso suppose there isn't a CGI role
just a CGI class
but you want to use CGI::Simple instead
then a CGI::Simple object would need to be accepted by a :(CGI $query) signature 19:50
in the end, it would get to CGI::Simple ~~ CGI during Signature.ACCEPTS...
TimToady well, you can always lie about Liskov 19:51
jauaor greets around
ruoso that's the point I got...
I found a way to effectively lie about it
the REPR api provides both .^!isa and .^!does
the .^!does is only used for introspection... not for MRO
because the methods in the role were copied to the class 19:52
during composition time
TimToady I...see
ruoso then you could put a class inside .^!does
without doing the copy
of the methods
and tada!
it works
TimToady Don't be evil.
:)
'course, the nice thing about google's slogan is that you can always redefine evil to be one step more murderous than what you're currently doing 19:53
Hence, I prefer "Be good." 19:54
ruoso does that mean I shouldn't consider it?
or that I should?
19:54 ChanServ sets mode: +o diakopter
TimToady "Be wise as serpents, and innocent as doves." 19:54
19:55 diakopter sets mode: +o TimToady, diakopter sets mode: -o diakopter
ruoso sometimes gets confused by TimToady's koan 19:55
TimToady that one's not mine, I'm quoting Jesus.
ruoso I know, but the context is yours
diakopter "I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High. But ye shall die like men, and fall like one of the princes" 19:56
TimToady anyway, you may certainly consider it, just don't do it. :)
ruoso well... I won't... but the people implementing CGI::Simple-like will do it ;) 19:57
TimToady well, if they want to consider that failing the complicated things is fulfilling the CGI contract, that's their decision 19:58
ruoso the worst thing about strong typing is how bad it can get if misused...
TimToady, that's precisely the point... sometimes you want to be able to replace legacy code that has a bad signature design 19:59
TimToady I need to commute or fall asleep... 20:00
ruoso one thing I learned from my Java years is that few people know that you should use interfaces instead of classes in most method's signature...
and in Java you still have to choose which of the many interfaces that does almost the same thing
and that are unrelated, most of the time
ruoso .oO( I think the excessive Java Core API is even worse then the crappy syntax ) 20:02
TimToady
.oO(there's never time to do it right, but there's always time to do it over...)
 20:03
ruoso wash dishes & 20:04
cognominal oops, git msg :fatal: Untracked working tree file 'v6/smop/m0ld/m0ld.hs' would be overwritten by merge 20:12
ruoso cognominal, I think you can remove your local copy and continue the pull 20:19
cognominal thx 20:20
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pugs_svn r22744 | azawawi++ | [STD_syntax_highlight] more --simple fixes (loads the css); but nothing concrete 20:50
azawawi im sleepy... going to fix it tomorrow; good night & 20:53
pmurias good night
20:54 azawawi left
ruoso pmurias, I've simplified a bit the REPR API 20:56
pmurias ruoso: looking
ruoso (in the wiki, not in src-s1p/)
pmurias, we know need the RW HOW API... like add_method, compose_role... 20:57
s/know/now/
pmurias on think that seems a bit odd in the REPR API is that an object can have either one prototype or storage 20:58
ruoso that's an arbitrary limit...
it has the purpose of blocking turning Undef defined
because otherwise, one could call Object.BUILDALL 20:59
and it would become defined
I already thought on removing that limit...
but I haven't made my mind yet
pmurias shouldn't the metaclass implement the policy side of things
?
20:59 ZuLuuuuuu left
ruoso maybe... 20:59
but it would require a check in every method call
because BUILDALL is a method like any other 21:00
I even thought on letting the user shoot his feet
pmurias is that typo likely? 21:01
ruoso as a typo, maybe...
but as a logic error, it's a bit more likely
$foo might contain undef (which happens to be the Object prototype), and it might call $foo.BUILDALL
pmurias that seems a version of the problem we encouter with lowlevel prototypes only it doesn't segfault ;) 21:02
ruoso heh 21:03
does that mean we're being successful in bootstrapping the type system?
pmurias hmm, is the Object prototype shared?
ruoso by shared you mean...
s/.../?/ 21:04
pmurias if i do my Object $foo;my Object $bar; does $foo and $bar contain the same thing?
ruoso "my Object $foo" only means a constraint in the Scalar '$foo' to contain only that type... 21:06
the content of $foo at that moment is "uninitialized"
pmurias my Foo $foo;$foo = $foo.new() works
ruoso hmmm.. it does? 21:07
stupid me...
yes... it does..
because 'my Foo $foo .= new()' also works
pmurias yes
ruoso unless the metaoperator is a special case
pmurias doubts it 21:08
ruoso rakudo: class Foo {}; my Foo $foo; $foo = $foo.new(); say $foo;
p6eval rakudo 31963: OUTPUT[get_string() not implemented in class 'Foo'␤current instr.: 'print' pc 14650 (src/gen_builtins.pir:9033)␤]
ruoso ok...
rakudo: class Foo{}; my Foo $foo; my Foo $bar; say $foo === $bar; 21:09
p6eval rakudo 31963: OUTPUT[1␤]
pmurias so $foo.BUILDALL might be a valid way of creating an object
ruoso not creating... but building
pmurias yes
ruoso creating is the part that returns a new reference
building is the part that initializes that thing
after create, it's undefined... 21:10
after buildall, it's defined..
rakudo: class Foo{has $.a}; my Foo $foo; my Foo $bar; say $foo === $bar; $foo.BUILDALL; say $foo === $bar; $foo.a = 1; say $bar.a; 21:11
p6eval rakudo 31963: OUTPUT[1␤Method 'BUILDALL' not found for invocant of class ''␤current instr.: '_block11' pc 181 (EVAL_11:76)␤]
pmurias so maybe the restriction is unessesary
ruoso hm... strange... it seems rakudo doesn't implement S12 correctly
moritz_ I don't think there's any synopsis it implements correctly yet. 21:12
ruoso pmurias, BUILDALL is spec
everything that is an Object needs to support it
pmurias i know
ruoso but the code above would make $bar.a return 1 21:13
I mean... calling BUILDALL by hand is not something people do all the time
in fact... people is not supposed to call BUILDALL at all 21:14
unless defining a new constructor
moritz_ does BUILDALL call bless()?
[particle]1 c:\Users\particle\dev\parrot\trunk\languages\perl6>ack BUILDALL
c:\Users\particle\dev\parrot\trunk\languages\perl6>
21:14 [particle]1 is now known as [particle]
ruoso moritz_, src-s1p/Object.pm has a proposed implementation of that 21:15
moritz_, no... it's bless that calls BUILDALL
moritz_ ok
pmurias ruoso: so we might remove the restriction 21:18
ruoso pmurias, yeah... I'm quite convinced we can...
this has an important advantage 21:19
mixins can be made in the actual object
no need to make a new anonymous type
pmurias shower& 21:20
ruoso removing the restriction from the wiki...
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ruoso but I think I'll still keep the "instanceof" thing 21:26
to simplify the lookup for plain objects
and that also defines the return of WHAT 21:27
I think I'm going to simplify that a little bit 21:32
I'll drop .^!instance, .^!bless and .^!unbless 21:33
and have .^!instanceof to be a little smarter
if there's a single isa and no other definition, it'll return the isa 21:34
if there's more than one isa and/or any other definition it'll return itself
and every object will need to have the .^!how set 21:37
even if an instance 21:38
pmurias ruoso: isn't it a bit of a magic rule? 21:39
ruoso which part 21:40
pmurias the .^instanceof
pugs_svn r22745 | ruoso++ | [smop] ^bless sets .^!isa and .^!does instead of calling .^bless on the REPR
ruoso pmurias, .^!instanceof will be used basically to return WHAT 21:41
it won't be part of the dispatch, actually
pmurias do you know what is .add_method going to do internally? 21:42
ruoso well... probably .^!methods{$name} = $code
ruoso dinner & 21:43
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ruoso pmurias, I'm back 22:02
method compose_role($how: $object, $role, *%initialize) {...} 22:07
can role composition receive initializing parameters?
or is it really external to the composition process, as S12:1394 seems to imply? 22:09
perl6: my $foo = 0 but True; say $foo.WHAT; 22:15
p6eval pugs: OUTPUT[/home/evalenv/pugs/pugs: error while loading shared libraries: libsmop.so: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory␤]
..rakudo 31963: OUTPUT[Int␤]
..elf 22745: OUTPUT[Undefined subroutine &GLOBAL::infix_but called at (eval 119) line 3.␤ at ./elf_f line 3861␤]
pmurias ruoso: i think it's just special syntax
ruoso meaning it is external 22:16
pmurias sleep&
yes
22:16 pmurias left 22:18 [particle] left 22:24 alester left 22:26 pedrob left 22:35 ZuLuuuuuu joined, ZuLuuuuuu left 22:36 ZuLuuuuuu joined 22:37 mberends joined 22:39 jhorwitz left
ruoso rakudo: class Foo { method bar (Int $a) { say 1 } }; class Bar is Foo { method bar (Str $a) {say 2 }}; Bar.bar(1); Bar.bar("a"); 22:39
p6eval rakudo 31963: OUTPUT[Parameter type check failed␤current instr.: 'die' pc 13159 (src/gen_builtins.pir:8135)␤]
ruoso rakudo: class Foo { multi method bar (Int $a) { say 1 } }; class Bar is Foo { multi method bar (Str $a) {say 2 }}; Bar.bar(1); Bar.bar("a"); 22:40
p6eval rakudo 31963: OUTPUT[Parameter type check failed␤current instr.: 'die' pc 13159 (src/gen_builtins.pir:8135)␤]
ruoso hmpf... 22:41
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ruoso elf: class Foo { method bar (Int $a) { say 1 } }; class Bar is Foo { method bar (Str $a) {say 2 }}; Bar.bar(1); Bar.bar("a"); 22:46
p6eval elf 22745: OUTPUT[2␤2␤]
22:50 iblechbot left, mberends left
avar elf: class Foo { method bar (Int $a) { say $a + 1 } }; class Bar is Foo { method bar (Str $a) {say $a ~ "b" }}; Foo.bar(1); Bar.bar("a"); 22:51
p6eval elf 22745: OUTPUT[2␤ab␤]
avar elf: class Foo { method bar (Int $a) { say $a + 1 } }; class Bar is Foo { method bar (Int $a) {say $a ~ "b" }}; Foo.bar(1); Bar.bar("a");
p6eval elf 22745: OUTPUT[2␤ab␤]
avar mm fail type checking 22:52
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