»ö« | perl6-projects.org/ | nopaste: paste.lisp.org/new/perl6 | evalbot usage: 'perl6: say 3;' | irclog: irc.pugscode.org/ | UTF-8 is our friend!
Set by moritz_ on 30 July 2009.
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meppl good night 02:06
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pugs_svn r27826 | kyle++ | [t/spec] Test for RT #68086 04:30
r27827 | kyle++ | [t/spec] Tests for RT #68074
r27828 | kyle++ | [t/spec] Tests for RT #68008
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JimmyZ rakudo: say '3'.^method.perl 04:34
p6eval rakudo e02bc0: OUTPUT«Method 'method' not found for invocant of class 'ClassHOW'␤»
JimmyZ rakudo: say '3'.^methods.perl
p6eval rakudo e02bc0: OUTPUT«[{ ... }, { ... }, { ... }, { ... }, { ... }, { ... }, { ... }, { ... }, { ... }, { ... }, { ... }, { ... }, { ... }, { ... }, { ... }, { ... }, { ... }, { ... }, { ... }, { ... }, { ... }, { ... }, { ... }, { ... }, { ... }, { ... }, { ... }, { ... }, { ... }, { ... }, { ...
..}, { …
JimmyZ rakudo: '3'.^methods.map({.name}).join(', ').say 04:36
p6eval rakudo e02bc0: OUTPUT«WHICH, ACCEPTS, perl, sprintf, Scalar, pred, encode, succ, floor, rand, truncate, round, sort, rindex, sqrt, split, match, grep, words, values, can, lcfirst, srand, Complex, map, polar, cis, kv, samecase, log, min, capitalize, max, first, trans, flip, does, Int, p5chop, lc,
..subst, …
JimmyZ rakudo: '3'.^methods.map({.name}).perl.say
p6eval rakudo e02bc0: OUTPUT«["encode", "succ", "WHICH", "ACCEPTS", "perl", "sprintf", "Scalar", "pred", "chr", ":d", ":e", ":f", "comb", "floor", "round", "chop", "split", "match", "words", "can", "lcfirst", "uc", "srand", "Complex", "keys", "map", "polar", "cis", "log", "substr", "min", "max", "pick",
.."first…
JimmyZ rakudo: '3'.^methods.perl.say
p6eval rakudo e02bc0: OUTPUT«[{ ... }, { ... }, { ... }, { ... }, { ... }, { ... }, { ... }, { ... }, { ... }, { ... }, { ... }, { ... }, { ... }, { ... }, { ... }, { ... }, { ... }, { ... }, { ... }, { ... }, { ... }, { ... }, { ... }, { ... }, { ... }, { ... }, { ... }, { ... }, { ... }, { ... }, { ...
..}, { …
tann_ rakudo: no strict; $i = 2; say $i; 04:46
p6eval rakudo e02bc0: OUTPUT«Symbol '$i' not predeclared in <anonymous> (/tmp/HjoGGW7pUx:2)␤in Main (src/gen_setting.pm:3363)␤»
tann_ pugs: no strict; $i = 0; say $i;
p6eval pugs: OUTPUT«*** ␤ Unexpected " ="␤ expecting "::"␤ Variable "$i" requires predeclaration or explicit package name␤ at /tmp/oh6U8lkTxL line 1, column 14␤»
sjohnson how's it going dudes 04:47
JimmyZ rakudo: $i = 2; say $i; 04:54
p6eval rakudo e02bc0: OUTPUT«Symbol '$i' not predeclared in <anonymous> (/tmp/K375UkQxhe:2)␤in Main (src/gen_setting.pm:3363)␤»
JimmyZ rakudo: $_ = 2; .say ;
p6eval rakudo e02bc0: OUTPUT«2␤»
wayland76 sjohnson: The weather is golfy :) 04:55
sjohnson hi wayland
\o/
wayland76 hi
:)
sjohnson perl!
wayland76 6!
sjohnson i love it everyday
i think the people who hate it
just aren't capable, or haven't seen the beauty of its expressiveness 04:56
wayland76 Don't agree
The big advantage of perl is that it lets you program the way you want 04:57
tann_ rakudo: my @a = 1..10; my @b = 100..110; my @c = @b >>-<< @a; say @c.perl;
wayland76 But if the people you work with have a widely different idea of what is good, then naturally it creates problems
p6eval rakudo e02bc0: OUTPUT«Non-dwimmy hyperoperator cannot be used on arrays of different sizes or dimensions.␤in Main (/tmp/UsNjSMm1AF:2)␤»
wayland76 Something like Python, OTOH, has the One True Way to do things 04:58
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tann_ rakudo: my @a = 1..10; my @b = 101..110; my @c = @b >>-<< @a; say @c.perl; 04:58
p6eval rakudo e02bc0: OUTPUT«[100, 100, 100, 100, 100, 100, 100, 100, 100, 100]␤»
wayland76 And that keeps idiots from doing something stupid with it
So if you work with idiots, you like Python :)
tann_ wayland76: disagree
wayland76 (Or something else other than perl; pick your own B&D language) 04:59
tann_ wayland76: it *tries* to keep idiots from doing bad things...but that doesn't mean they can't do it
wayland76 Ah, yes, good point
I should've made that clearer :)
tann_ i've read ugly python code as well 05:00
wayland76 "FORTRAN programmers can write FORTRAN in any language", etc :)
tann_ it's much about the person who writes the code
sjohnson tann_: i take it you like Perl too a lot
tann_ sjohnson: it's handy 05:01
sjohnson: i'm not so religious about languages
i don't like some of perl6's stuff..but what do i know? timtoady is always god regardless :P 05:02
wayland76 What do you not like?
(I want to see if I also dislike them :) )
sjohnson well, God said that maybe he might consider $string[3] indexing for strings 05:03
tann_ wayland76: i think some of the builtin variables
sjohnson like in many languages
i think that'd be sweet
wayland76 tann_: You'd prefer to have fewer?
tann_ also, stuff like %h<key> vs %h{'key'} etc.
wayland76: yes 05:04
if possible
wayland76 tann_: But you can still use %h{'key'} if you want
tann_ wayland76: that's the thing i don't like
wayland76 The variables are still far from fixed (ie. in a state of flux)
tann_ it'll confuse the heck outta people
wayland76 Did you ever read the essay about Perl being a postmodern language? 05:05
tann_ yup
larry as always is way too smart :P
and look at people around him, pmichaud, damian etc.. all scarily smart folks
wayland76 The idea I'm thinking of here is something like "We put in everything and let people use the bits they want" 05:06
tann_ so i sit and learn...keep quiet :D
wayland76 I agree about the "smart" business
sjohnson you guys know a lot more Perl than i do :(
tann_ sjohnson: when it comes to p6, i know as much as you do
probably you know more than me :D 05:07
wayland76 I remember talking with someone recently who said something like "The #perl6 channel is strange; I don't usually feel like the dumbest person in the room" :)
tann_ probably because he was talking to me
sjohnson hahah 05:08
wayland76 tann_: No, I don't think it was you.
sjohnson you have a good sense of humour
wayland76 Oh, wait, I got your comment backwards :)
sorry :)
sjohnson is it too radical to say that people who are funny also tend to be able to program in Perl effectively?
wayland76 Why are the words "in Perl" in that sentence? :) 05:09
tann_ sjohnson: i don't claim either :P
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JimmyZ rakudo: for '0001.jpg' .. '0010.jpg' { .say } 05:09
p6eval rakudo e02bc0: OUTPUT«0001.jpg␤0002.jpg␤0003.jpg␤0004.jpg␤0005.jpg␤0006.jpg␤0007.jpg␤0008.jpg␤0009.jpg␤0010.jpg␤»
tann_ scary eh, jimmy? :) 05:10
sjohnson tann_ / wayland76: do you guys get to use Perl at work?
JimmyZ rakudo: for 'zhao_0001.jpg' .. 'zhao_0010.jpg' { .say }
p6eval rakudo e02bc0: OUTPUT«zhao_0001.jpg␤zhao_0002.jpg␤zhao_0003.jpg␤zhao_0004.jpg␤zhao_0005.jpg␤zhao_0006.jpg␤zhao_0007.jpg␤zhao_0008.jpg␤zhao_0009.jpg␤zhao_0010.jpg␤»
tann_ sjohnson: yes....100%
sjohnson tann_: 100%? 05:11
i get to use it like, 5%
but that 5% is bliss to me
tann_ sjohnson: our system, platform rely heavily on perl
sjohnson the other 95% is PHP and javascript and i hate it
tann_: you must have been a saint in a past life
wayland76 sjohnson: When I can 05:12
tann_ sjohnson: then i would be programming in html now
sjohnson you like HTML?
i hate it as much as I hate javascript
tann_ marginally
wayland76 xhtml2 looks all right, though :)
sjohnson my favourite thing is backend tasks in Perl
tann_ javascript? 05:13
jquery?
sjohnson jquery i have been told solves all my complaints
tann_ our backend and apps are mostly in c++, java etc...
sjohnson i dont know how easily it is to get Jquery setup where i work
tann_ front end is mostly php and yui :) 05:14
but platform and system work are almost all perl
uh oh..too many details..you probably guess which company i'm working for :D
sjohnson mhm 05:15
amazon?
let me keep guessing if i am wrong
tann_ notice the javascript lib for the front end ;)
JimmyZ rakudo: '3'.WHICH.perl.say 05:16
p6eval rakudo e02bc0: OUTPUT«"3"␤»
sjohnson JimmyZ: try this
ahh nevermind
you know what you're doing
JimmyZ sjohnson: yep 05:17
just want give it a try.
s/want/want to/
tann_ which new stuff in p6 you guys like? 05:19
sjohnson oh man
wayland76 tann_: Custom slangs :)
tann_ :) 05:20
sjohnson this says it all: use.perl.org/~masak/journal/39025
JimmyZ rakudo: '3'.PARROT.say
wayland76 Access to syntax tree
p6eval rakudo e02bc0: OUTPUT«Str␤»
JimmyZ rakudo: '3'.WHAT.say
tann_ i like the multi sub/method lots
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p6eval rakudo e02bc0: OUTPUT«Str()␤» 05:20
missingthepoint rakudo: class A { method b { say 'b' } }; my $a = A.new; $a.b () 05:21
p6eval rakudo e02bc0: OUTPUT«Statement not terminated properly at line 2, near "()"␤in Main (src/gen_setting.pm:3363)␤»
missingthepoint rakudo: class A { method b { say 'b' } }; my $a = A.new; $a.b()
p6eval rakudo e02bc0: OUTPUT«b␤»
wayland76 tann_: Note that that article about sjohnson was actually written by masak :) 05:22
tann_ i'm not fond of that *unspace* thingy
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tann_ i know lots of programmers like to put a space after an identifier name 05:23
now they have to retrain their habit
wayland76 Well, I never put space after "if" and "while". Now I have to retrain :) 05:24
tann_ urg
i thought perlstyle recommended that
space between a control keywords and openning paren
wayland76 possibly 05:25
tann_ but not for methods and subs
wayland76 But when perlstyle said "spaces instead of tabs", then I basically ignored it :)
tann_ damian also said so in his perl best practices book
wayland76: why?
wayland76 I don't mind if people want their tabs to be 4 spaces wide, but I think they should use actual tabs instead of spaces 05:26
tann_ i'm also an advocate of spaces over tabs
well, i like to see code indented properly
wayland76 I agree about that
I can live with spaces on other people's projects, but unindented code is just evil :)
tann_ some editors don't interpret tabs right 05:27
wayland76 So fix the editors :)
tann_ i always have ts=8 sts=4 sw=4 et in my vimrc
wayland76 (incidentally, which editors?)
tann_ padre? :)) 05:28
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tann_ 'cause i can't install that darn thing on my mac :D 05:28
wayland76 Well, I know both nano and vi seem to work sensibly with tabs 05:29
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wayland76 and I'm sure emacs would handle them appropriately with sufficient e-lisp :) 05:29
I guess I like tabls because they let each programmer choose how they want to see the code :) 05:30
So if I like more indentation, I can get more, and others can get less if they like that better :)
tann_ why a unfavorable view about spaces? makes your files larger? :D
wayland76: understood 05:31
ruby guys even have 2 spaces of indentation :D
and i know graham barr also did that at one point....having the pleasure of browsing his code lots :) 05:32
wayland76 So you're starting to see my point (even if it's not enough to convice you to switch :) )
sjohnson tann_: can i haz an example?
i'm not sure i know what you mean
tann_ wayland76: naw, not switching...tim bunce already got me hooked with spaces and stuff :D
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tann_ sjohnson: you can view graham's code on cpan 05:33
wayland76 sjohnson: an example of code with tabs, or spaces? :)
tann_ though i had the pleasure of browsing his code when i worked with both him and tim at a certain company :)
sjohnson spaces 05:35
tann_ i've learned much about programming just by browsing those two geniuses' code
sjohnson who's Graham?
wayland76 tann_: I know what you mean. I learned a lot about regex in the early days just by reading the FAQ whose answer was s/^\s*(.*?)\s*$/$1/ 05:36
tann_ sjohnson: graham wrote most of the perl core modules
wayland76 Graham Barr wrote a bunch of the more important modules on CPAN
tann_ sjohnson: here's an example of spaces :) cpansearch.perl.org/src/TNGUYEN/Loc.../Format.pm
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missingthepoint newbie question: what's the current eqv of "use lib" in Perl 6? 05:37
wayland76 I don't recall, but setting PERL6LIB works 05:39
(environment variable, that is)
tann_ missingthepoint: BEGIN { @*INC.push: 'lib' }
or @*INC.unshift: 'lib' whichever is fine with you 05:40
missingthepoint thanks both of you :)
tann_ i prefer push as it makes lib lower precedence
missingthepoint ah, that makes sense 05:41
wayland76 tann_: Both need to be in a BEGIN {} though, right? 05:43
tann_ wayland76: yes
sjohnson alright dudes 05:44
i've had enough PHP tasks, i am gonna take off
see ya guys
tann_ take it easy
wayland76 o/
tann_ has anyone attempted to hook std.pm into rakudo? :)
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tann_ i like to take a look at some adverbial stuff such as :by but rakudo parser doesn't handle it yet 05:45
wayland76 pmichaud says it won't go until we've done at least the LTM milestone from the ROADMAP 05:48
Now you know why I keep asking about it :) 05:49
tann_ where can i find the roadmap?
JimmyZ LTM was longest token matching? 05:50
tann_ rakudo.org should be sexier... it seems that there's only moritz updating it and he's already doing a superb job of wearing many hats 05:51
this warms my heart wiki.github.com/rakudo/rakudo/rakud...ment-draft 05:53
JimmyZ github.com/rakudo/rakudo/blob/e02bc...cs/ROADMAP
eternaleye rakudo: '3'.^methods>>.name.grep(/^p/).join(', ').say # Why's everyone been using map for this?
p6eval rakudo e02bc0: OUTPUT«pred, perl, pick, polar, p5chop, p5chomp, pairs, print, perl␤»
JimmyZ or see github.com/rakudo/rakudo/tree/maste...cs/ROADMAP 05:55
tann_ rakudo: say "".^methods>>.name.perl
p6eval rakudo e02bc0: OUTPUT«["pred", "encode", "succ", "ACCEPTS", "perl", "WHICH", "sprintf", "Scalar", "flip", "int", "does", "split", "match", "words", "srand", "reverse", "isa", "polar", "ucfirst", "comb", "fmt", "first", "trans", "chop", "rindex", "values", "subst", "elems", "chomp", "index", "keys",
.."chr…
JimmyZ rakudo: say "".^methods(.name).perl 05:56
p6eval rakudo e02bc0: OUTPUT«Method 'name' not found for invocant of class 'Failure'␤»
JimmyZ rakudo: say "".^methods(>>.name).perl 05:57
p6eval rakudo e02bc0: OUTPUT«Statement not terminated properly at line 2, near "(>>.name)."␤in Main (src/gen_setting.pm:3363)␤»
tann_ so from the roadmap, it looks like rakudo 1.0 won't have threads 05:59
JimmyZ rakudo: ("f","oo","bar").>>.chars.say; 06:00
p6eval rakudo e02bc0: OUTPUT«Statement not terminated properly at line 2, near ".>>.chars."␤in Main (src/gen_setting.pm:3363)␤»
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JimmyZ rakudo: ("f","oo","bar")>>.chars.say; 06:01
p6eval rakudo e02bc0: OUTPUT«123␤»
JimmyZ is it a bug? 06:02
rakudo: ("f","oo","bar",'da',6)>>.chars.say; 06:03
p6eval rakudo e02bc0: OUTPUT«12321␤»
JimmyZ rakudo: ("f","oo","bar",'da',6)>>.name.say; 06:04
p6eval rakudo e02bc0: OUTPUT«Method 'name' not found for invocant of class 'Str'␤»
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wayland76 Yes, LTM = Longest Token Matching 06:06
JimmyZ rakudo: say "".^methods.name.perl
p6eval rakudo e02bc0: OUTPUT«Method 'name' not found for invocant of class 'Perl6Array'␤»
wayland76 pmichaud has been talking about having it mostly done by the end of the summer (I'm guessing this is the end of August, or maybe even September, in his part of the world)
I'm predicting next February, just to be difficult :) but since pmichaud is the one working on it, I'm hoping he's right :) 06:07
JimmyZ rakudo: ("f","oo","bar",'da',6).>>.name.say;
p6eval rakudo e02bc0: OUTPUT«Statement not terminated properly at line 2, near ".>>.name.s"␤in Main (src/gen_setting.pm:3363)␤»
eternaleye rakudo: ("f","oo","bar",'da',6)>>(.^methods>>.name).say 06:08
p6eval rakudo e02bc0: OUTPUT«foobarda6␤»
eternaleye rakudo: ("f","oo","bar",'da',6)>>.^methods>>.name.say
p6eval rakudo e02bc0: OUTPUT«Method 'name' not found for invocant of class 'Perl6Array'␤»
JimmyZ rakudo: ("f","oo","bar",'da',6).>>.chars.say;
p6eval rakudo e02bc0: OUTPUT«Statement not terminated properly at line 2, near ".>>.chars."␤in Main (src/gen_setting.pm:3363)␤»
JimmyZ It's from S03
eternaleye rakudo: ("f","oo","bar",'da',6)>>.^methods>>>>.name.say
p6eval rakudo e02bc0: OUTPUT«Statement not terminated properly at line 2, near ">>>>.name."␤in Main (src/gen_setting.pm:3363)␤»
JimmyZ maybe it is not implemented 06:09
tann_ JimmyZ: which? 06:10
JimmyZ rakudo: ("f","oo","bar",'da',6).>>.chars.say;
eternaleye rakudo: ("f","oo","bar",'da',6)>>.chars.say;
p6eval rakudo e02bc0: OUTPUT«Statement not terminated properly at line 2, near ".>>.chars."␤in Main (src/gen_setting.pm:3363)␤»
rakudo e02bc0: OUTPUT«12321␤»
eternaleye JimmyZ: You have an extra dot
tann_ no dot before .>>
JimmyZ I copy it from S03
tann_ the syntax is [list] >> something
JimmyZ not an extra dot
("f","oo","bar").>>.chars; # (1,2,3) 06:11
eternaleye JimmyZ: compare your code to the one I used. There should not be a '.' between ) and >>
JimmyZ: Then it's a bug in the spec
JimmyZ @positions.»++; # Same thing, dot form
lambdabot Unknown command, try @list
JimmyZ @positions».++; # Same thing, dot form
lambdabot Unknown command, try @list
tann_ how to type these things »+« with a us keyboard? :)
eternaleye Thank you for finding that, in that case 06:12
tann_: Define a compose key, or use the 'Texas' variants
JimmyZ it is a bug in rakudo ,not spec
eternaleye JimmyZ: If the sepc says ("f","oo","bar").>>.chars then it's wrong. The first dot should not be there. 06:13
*spec
JimmyZ and @positions.»++; ?
It is wrong too ?
tann_ that's confusing..why timtoady allows both with and without the dot?
JimmyZ and @objects.».run(); ?? 06:14
eternaleye Ditto. >> is not a method, it's an infix operator that takes anything that does Positional on the left and Callable on the right
At least, that's what I've been told
tann_ one would think the dot implies a reassignment
JimmyZ Were all that in spec a bug ? 06:15
eternaleye tann_: No, assigning the result of a method call back to the object is .=
tann_ spec is supposed the bible
i'd say rakudo's bug
JimmyZ shoulde we ask lwall :(
eternaleye @foo.=map(*.uc) changes everything in @foo to uppercase in place
lambdabot Unknown command, try @list
tann_ eternaleye: yea..i was confused for a sec there 06:16
eternaleye tann_: There's a category in RT (the bugtracker) for the spec
It has seen use.
Also, the spec is still changing
Implementations provide info on what's feasible and what's desirable, and the spec changes in response 06:17
Just run 'svn log <filename>' on the spec docs in the pugs repo, and see the huge number of changes made, including recent ones 06:18
JimmyZ I don't think it is a spec bug
anyway
eternaleye JimmyZ: Quite possible, my understanding isn't perfect
JimmyZ: TimToady, pmichaud, and jnthn are really the people who would know best 06:19
JimmyZ yes
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missingthepoint rakudo: say 10.^methods 06:42
p6eval rakudo e02bc0:
..OUTPUT«succperlACCEPTSWHICHScalarabsStrpredp5choplcjoincharscanlcfirstrootsreduceComplextrimmap:dcis:e:flogminrandmaxtruncatebytessortsqrtIntgrepabsenducceilingp5chompunpolarsamecasefloorsubstrordroundflipdoesintsplitmatchwordssrandreverseisapolarucfirstcombfmttransfirstchoprindexvaluessu…
missingthepoint oh dear 06:43
PerlJam eternaleye: postfix ops can have an intervening dot as per the spec. >> is a "postfix prefix" meta-op (not an infix). (i.e. >> doesn't stand by itself) At least that's how I understand things.
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missingthepoint rakudo: my %h = map($_ => 1, ''.^methods, 10.^methods); say %h.perl; 06:45
06:45 JimmyZ left
p6eval rakudo e02bc0: OUTPUT«No applicable candidates found to dispatch to for 'map'␤in Main (/tmp/g7egt1eW1v:2)␤» 06:45
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PerlJam missingthepoint: what are you trying to do with that hash? 06:46
missingthepoint PerlJam: not sure, experimenting... 06:47
rakudo: my %h = map { $_ => 1 }, 1..4; say $h.perl 06:48
JimmyZ like: .++ ?
p6eval rakudo e02bc0: OUTPUT«Symbol '$h' not predeclared in <anonymous> (/tmp/27eQGG0KRs:2)␤in Main (src/gen_setting.pm:3363)␤»
missingthepoint gah
rakudo: my %h = map { $_ => 1 }, 1..4; say %h.perl
p6eval rakudo e02bc0: OUTPUT«Use of uninitialized value␤No applicable candidates found to dispatch to for 'map'␤in Main (/tmp/tQ2pXIiicj:2)␤»
missingthepoint i have map woes.
JimmyZ PerlJam: like: .++ ?
PerlJam JimmyZ: yep.
missingthepoint: your map's block looks like a hash, so perl probably thinks it is one. 06:49
JimmyZ that it, the test case should be ignore some cases.
missingthepoint rakudo: my %h = map($_ => 1, 1..4); say %h.perl; 06:50
p6eval rakudo e02bc0: OUTPUT«No applicable candidates found to dispatch to for 'map'␤in Main (/tmp/HdHwyaUBLF:2)␤»
PerlJam oh. Hrm. 06:52
Maybe something more fundamental with map
eternaleye rakudo: my %h = map {; $_ => 1 }, 1..4; say %h.perl
p6eval rakudo e02bc0: OUTPUT«{"1" => 1, "2" => 1, "3" => 1, "4" => 1}␤»
JimmyZ t/spec/S03-operators/hyper.t loses some cases.
rakudo: $_ = 1; .++.say; 06:53
p6eval rakudo e02bc0: OUTPUT«Syntax error at line 2, near ".++.say;"␤in Main (src/gen_setting.pm:3363)␤»
PerlJam rakudo: my @a = map(2 * $_, 1..4); say @a.perl;
p6eval rakudo e02bc0: OUTPUT«Use of uninitialized value␤No applicable candidates found to dispatch to for 'map'␤in Main (/tmp/AtfADUWrle:2)␤»
PerlJam rakudo probably doesn't grok postfix forms with an intervening dot. 06:55
eternaleye PerlJam: the first argumentto map needs to 'does Callable' - your 2 * $_ expression is being evaluated, and the _result_ passed to map
JimmyZ PerlJam: yep.
eternaleye rakudo: my @a = map(2 * *, 1..4); say @a.perl;
p6eval rakudo e02bc0: OUTPUT«[2, 4, 6, 8]␤»
eternaleye rakudo: my @a = map({2 * $_ }, 1..4); say @a.perl;
p6eval rakudo e02bc0: OUTPUT«[2, 4, 6, 8]␤» 06:56
PerlJam aye. I'm not thinking too clearly at this hour
missingthepoint PerlJam: what's your localtime? :)
PerlJam almost 2am
tann_ rakudo: my @a = (1..4).map: { 2 * $_ }; say @a.perl; 06:57
p6eval rakudo e02bc0: OUTPUT«[2, 4, 6, 8]␤»
tann_ rakudo: my @a = (1..4) >>*<< 2; say @a.perl; 06:58
p6eval rakudo e02bc0: OUTPUT«Non-dwimmy hyperoperator cannot be used on arrays of different sizes or dimensions.␤in Main (/tmp/AD0CwxwKVQ:2)␤»
tann_ rakudo: my @a = (1..4) >>* 2; say @a.perl; 06:59
p6eval rakudo e02bc0: OUTPUT«Statement not terminated properly at line 2, near ">>* 2; say"␤in Main (src/gen_setting.pm:3363)␤»
JimmyZ ah, too much way ;(
rakudo: my @a = (1..4).map({ 2 * * }); say @a.perl; 07:00
p6eval rakudo e02bc0: OUTPUT«[{ ... }, { ... }, { ... }, { ... }]␤»
JimmyZ rakudo: my @a = (1..4).map({ 2 * $_ }); say @a.perl;
p6eval rakudo e02bc0: OUTPUT«[2, 4, 6, 8]␤»
JimmyZ rakudo: my @a = (1..4).map({ 2 * * }); say @a.join(' ').perl; 07:01
p6eval rakudo e02bc0: OUTPUT«"!whatever_closure !whatever_closure !whatever_closure !whatever_closure"␤»
tann_ rakudo: my @a = (1..4) >>*>> 2; say @a.perl;
p6eval rakudo e02bc0: OUTPUT«[2, 4, 6, 8]␤»
tann_ rakudo: my @a = 1..4 >>*>> 2; say @a.perl; 07:02
p6eval rakudo e02bc0: OUTPUT«[1]␤»
PerlJam precedence on that one 07:03
or something
tann_ yes
my @a = 4 >>*>> 2; say @a.perl; 07:04
rakudo: my @a = 4 >>*>> 2; say @a.perl;
p6eval rakudo e02bc0: OUTPUT«[8]␤»
tann_ rakudo: my @a = 1..(4 >>*>> 2); say @a.perl; 07:05
p6eval rakudo e02bc0: OUTPUT«[1]␤»
PerlJam heh .. the list (4 >>*>> 2) is being evaluated in a scalar numeric context :) 07:06
tann_ hmm
not sure i understand it
PerlJam 1..8 is quite different from 1..(8,) 07:07
tann_ ah
PerlJam since the >> ops always give you lists
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JimmyZ rakudo: ([-] 4, 3, 2).say 07:13
p6eval rakudo e02bc0: OUTPUT«-1␤»
JimmyZ rakudo: ([**] 4, 3, 2).say 07:14
p6eval rakudo e02bc0: OUTPUT«4096␤»
JimmyZ rakudo: $_ = [**] 4, 3, 2; .say;
p6eval rakudo e02bc0: OUTPUT«4096␤»
JimmyZ rakudo: $_ = 4**(3**2); .say; 07:15
p6eval rakudo e02bc0: OUTPUT«262144␤»
JimmyZ a bug found ; 07:16
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JimmyZ rakudo: $_ = 4**3**2; .say; 07:18
p6eval rakudo e02bc0: OUTPUT«262144␤»
JimmyZ rakudo: $_ = (4**3)**2; .say;
p6eval rakudo e02bc0: OUTPUT«4096␤»
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missingthepoint rakudo: say 64**2 07:23
p6eval rakudo e02bc0: OUTPUT«4096␤»
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tann_ there should be a version of 'say' for stderr 07:23
rakudo: cry "ai papi" 07:24
p6eval rakudo e02bc0: OUTPUT«Could not find non-existent sub cry␤»
missingthepoint tann_: sub cry { my $P = $*OUT; $*OUT = $*ERR; say @_.shift } 07:26
or something ;)
(modulo the precise semantics of say) 07:27
tann_ missingthepoint: sub cry { warn @_, "\n" } :D
if p6 has say for print + "\n", it should have cry for warn + "\n"...so to make things symmetric :D 07:28
missingthepoint tann_: I missed the point? ;) 07:29
tann_ what's the point of having say when one can do print args, "\n"? :)
missingthepoint heh, ok :) 07:30
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JimmyZ rakudo: $_ = [**] 4, 3, 2; .say; # It should be 262144 not 4096, let's call it a bug. 07:41
p6eval rakudo e02bc0: OUTPUT«4096␤»
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missingthepoint JimmyZ: report? 07:45
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missingthepoint tann_: how about 07:46
the $thing.say form? i.e., how would one do "ai papi".cry? 07:47
(just curious)
tann_ same as say :)
just to stderr
i'm lazy i know :D
JimmyZ missingthepiont: what report? 07:49
missingthepoint JimmyZ: if it is a bug, you should report it :)
tann_ i was thinking about it because in debug mode, you see people doing warn args, "\n" all over the place
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missingthepoint pugs: $_ = [**] 4, 3, 2; .say 07:51
p6eval pugs: OUTPUT«262144␤»
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tann_ rakudo: say 4**3; 07:52
p6eval rakudo e02bc0: OUTPUT«64␤»
tann_ rakudo: say 64**2;
p6eval rakudo e02bc0: OUTPUT«4096␤»
missingthepoint JimmyZ: do you know how to report a bug? 07:54
tann_ missingthepoint: just email to [email@hidden.address]
for rakudo that is
wayland76 phenny: tell masak Tree: github.com/wayland/Tree/tree/master (needs work before it's even coherent; there's an XML grammar in there, but that's just so that we can play with it until we can get something we like :) )
phenny wayland76: I'll pass that on when masak is around.
tann_ for perl6 it's [email@hidden.address] think 07:55
rakudo.org/how-to-help 07:56
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JimmyZ rakudo: $_ = [**] 4, 3, 2; .say; # It should be 262144 not 4096, let's call it a rakudo bug. 07:57
p6eval rakudo e02bc0: OUTPUT«4096␤»
missingthepoint JimmyZ: to report the bug so the rakudo developers see it, send an email to [email@hidden.address] with [BUG] as the first thing in the subject 07:58
JimmyZ ok 07:59
missingthepoint JimmyZ: in the body of the email, put "$_ = [**] 4, 3, 2; .say; # It should be 262144 not 4096, let's call it a rakudo bug." 08:00
JimmyZ missingthepoint: thanks.
missingthepoint (you want to include the code that triggers the bug so the developers can reproduce it)
JimmyZ: no problem :D 08:01
JimmyZ rakudo: $_ = ([**] 4, 3, 2).say;
p6eval rakudo e02bc0: OUTPUT«4096␤»
wayland76 Other people may also be interested in the Tree link posted above
JimmyZ rakudo: ([**] 4, 3, 2).say;
p6eval rakudo e02bc0: OUTPUT«4096␤» 08:02
JimmyZ I don't I can report
RT can't receive email from china. 08:03
missingthepoint JimmyZ: ah. i'll submit it for you and credit you with finding it.
JimmyZ thanks.
tann_ better if you can attach a patch :)
missingthepoint tann_: give me a few years to learn rakudo internals, then np ;) 08:04
tann_ missingpoint: some bugs are actually surprisingly simple...
missingthepoint opens up rakudo and peers inside... 08:05
tann_ just look at the src/settings src/classes src/builtins
missingthepoint i guess "builtins"
tann_ you can leave the scary bits to pmichaud, moritz, jnthn and other heroes .... but if you can find something that is easily fixed, please do so 08:06
missingthepoint no problem
tann_ chances are src/settings
that's where you write perl6 in perl6 itself :) 08:07
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tann_ rakudo: say (4, 3, 2).reduce({ $^a ** $^b}); 08:13
p6eval rakudo e02bc0: OUTPUT«4096␤»
missingthepoint tann_: i think it's in builtins\assign.pir around line 570 08:14
err, 37
pugs: say 4**9 08:15
p6eval pugs: OUTPUT«262144␤»
tann_ hmm
missingthepoint pugs: are you lying to me?
tann_ ** is evaluated from left to right?
p6eval pugs: OUTPUT«*** ␤ Unexpected "?"␤ expecting "::", dot, ":", "(", term postfix, operator or ","␤ at /tmp/xa4tAegpob line 1, column 20␤»
tann_ or right to left? 08:16
missingthepoint pugs: playing confused, now, are we?
p6eval pugs: OUTPUT«*** ␤ Unexpected "?"␤ expecting "::", dot, ":", "(", term postfix, operator or ","␤ at /tmp/sBptjVGYaI line 1, column 30␤»
missingthepoint tann_: ** has right associativity
tann_ ack
hack hack 08:17
and send patch :D
missingthepoint no, you do it :)
i'm lost in the PIR :( 08:18
JimmyZ right to left
tann_ missingthepoint: if it's the assoc bug, then the parser needs to address that 08:19
it looks like the parser doesn't get the right ast tree then
missingthepoint ah 08:20
perl6 --PAST and perl6 --parse to the rescue!
tann_ i'm scared when i look at the parser
JimmyZ tann_: yes
tann_ that's why i'm advocating to use std.pm so we can all blame larry :D 08:21
report the bug and let KyleHa know so he can add the tests to the spectest 08:22
missingthepoint tann_: do you have a commit bit for the pugs svn? you could do it yourself :) 08:24
tann_ wayland76: what sorta tricks can one play with the ast within rakudo?
missingthepoint: i don't...i normally just send mail to [email@hidden.address] and the heroes take care of it really fast 08:25
i could've used 'gods' instead of 'heroes' but since 'gods' was tainted by the perlmonks.org incidence...i avoid using it now :D 08:26
missingthepoint tann_: looking at the rakudo tests, it looks like 'reduce' associativity is a rakudo TODO
tann_ ah
missingthepoint how do we find that in RT?
ok, known bug #63306: "[**] has the wrong associativity in Rakud" 08:28
*Rakudo
rt.perl.org/rt3/Public/Bug/Display.html?id=63306 08:29
tann_ yea
filed by masak, the hero 08:30
#63306 should be re-opened 08:33
missingthepoint it kinda is
ah, i see what you mean 08:34
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tann_ moritz just commented that it's still broken but the ticket was marked 'resolved' 08:34
and evidently, it's still broken :) 08:35
missingthepoint i'd change the status to open, but a) i don't have permission, b) moritz didn't, and he probably does 08:36
tann_ probably an email to [email@hidden.address] indicating that the issue was addressed in #63306 but not fully resolved 08:38
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tann_ rakudo: my $n = $*IN.get.int; 08:43
p6eval rakudo e02bc0: ( no output )
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tann_ rakudo: say $*IN.get.int; 08:43
p6eval rakudo e02bc0: OUTPUT«0␤» 08:44
missingthepoint wonders if rakudo needs an RT janitor 08:48
JimmyZ moritz should does 08:51
tann_ moritz got too much stuff on his plate 08:53
i've browsed the rt tkts and a few already got fixed
yet their status was still 'open'/'new' 08:54
missingthepoint pugs: say 4 ** 3 ** 2 08:55
p6eval pugs: OUTPUT«262144␤»
missingthepoint rakudo: say 4 ** 3 ** 2
p6eval rakudo e02bc0: ( no output )
missingthepoint rakudo: say 4 ** 3 ** 2
p6eval rakudo e02bc0: OUTPUT«262144␤»
missingthepoint ah, different bug
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tann_ rakudo: (\(1,2), \(3,4)).perl.say 08:56
p6eval rakudo e02bc0: OUTPUT«[[1, 2], [3, 4]]␤»
missingthepoint "the associativity of the infix op still needs fixing"
tann_ but it looks like the infix op does the right thing
it looks like reduce doesn't get it right 08:57
missingthepoint tann_: agree
JimmyZ 262144 is the right output 08:58
tann_ hmm...maybe, bc rakudo doesn't do lazy list? 09:00
moritz would know
phenny: tell moritz associativity of [**] reported as rt #63306 still doesn't work right ... [**] 4, 3, 2 should give 262144 09:02
phenny tann_: I'll pass that on when moritz is around.
tann_ alright fellas...sleep is morphine for a frazzled mind :) 09:03
missingthepoint tann_: sleep well :)
09:04 tann_ left
JimmyZ rakudo: ("f","oo","bar")>>.chars.perl.say 09:06
p6eval rakudo e02bc0: OUTPUT«[1, 2, 3]␤» 09:07
JimmyZ rakudo: ("f","oo","bar").chars.perl.say
p6eval rakudo e02bc0: OUTPUT«8␤»
JimmyZ rakudo: ("f","oo","bar").chars.perl.say
p6eval rakudo e02bc0: OUTPUT«8␤»
JimmyZ perl Configure.pl on windows faild ;( 09:14
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missingthepoint JimmyZ: rakudo Configure.pl? 09:18
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missingthepoint JimmyZ: what was the error message? 09:19
JimmyZ I think I should use linux, not windows 09:20
missingthepoint JimmyZ: i think the same thing often 09:21
JimmyZ missingthepoint: always missed some tools. ;)
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missingthepoint in fact, i think i'll install the latest ubuntu ;) i can dual boot. 09:27
JimmyZ I had one, install with wubi 09:28
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szabgab_in_class rakudo: "hello class".say 09:28
p6eval rakudo e02bc0: OUTPUT«hello class␤» 09:29
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hah rakudo: grammar A { token a { A }; token b { B }; }; grammar B is A { token b { C }; }; if "AC" ~~ /(<B::a>)/ { say "OK:$0"; } 09:33
p6eval rakudo e02bc0: OUTPUT«Null PMC access in invoke()␤in regex PGE::Grammar::_block69 (/tmp/DVAA8zAea2:2)␤called from Main (/tmp/DVAA8zAea2:2)␤»
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hah pugs_svn: grammar A { token a { A }; token b { B }; }; grammar B is A { token b { C }; }; if "AC" ~~ /(<B::a>)/ { say "OK:$0"; } 09:40
args :) 09:41
JimmyZ Statement not terminated properly at line 178, near ".arity || " 09:44
in Main (<unknown>:3363)
parrot and rakudo all make failed on windows with chinese character TEMP ENV PATH;( 09:45
sjohnson hi JimmyZ 09:46
JimmyZ hello sjohnson ;)
jnthn Oh hai, I made it to Lisbon. 09:48
JimmyZ jnthn: there is a bug with [**] op 09:49
but I can't send a mail to rt
jnthn Lack of recognition of it's associativity? 09:50
Think somebody may have run into this one before.
JimmyZ yes
rakudo: $_ = [**] 4, 3, 2; .say; # It should be 262144 not 4096 09:51
p6eval rakudo e02bc0: OUTPUT«4096␤»
JimmyZ and i make rakudo faild with Statement not terminated properly at line 178, near ".arity || "
let me change it to linux :( 09:54
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JimmyZ how can i upload a patch ? i make ('fo','foo','bars').>>.chars works 10:42
s/works/working/ 10:43
missingthepoint rakudo: ('fo', 'foo', 'bars').join('').chars.say 10:44
p6eval rakudo e02bc0: OUTPUT«9␤»
JimmyZ rakudo: ('fo', 'foo', 'bars').>>.chars.perl.say; 10:45
p6eval rakudo e02bc0: OUTPUT«Statement not terminated properly at line 2, near ".>>.chars."␤in Main (src/gen_setting.pm:3363)␤»
JimmyZ liangke@ubuntu:~/rakudo$ ./perl6 -e "('fo','foo','bars').>>.chars.perl.say"
[2, 3, 4]
missingthepoint Oh hai jnthn :) 10:47
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missingthepoint afk restart 10:59
*afc 11:00
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JimmyZ git is really hard to create a patch :( 11:33
xinming JimmyZ: git help format-patch 11:34
JimmyZ xinming: It's hard to follow wiki.github.com/rakudo/rakudo/steps...te-a-patch 11:36
It's more difficult than svn :( 11:37
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pmichaud _finally_ gets to his hotel room and gets wifi working 11:59
JimmyZ I used 'git format-patch -M b3a2ea5df54d0b6ec978b63892be8bfdbf749fd5 ', but I can't see any patch created. 12:00
pugs_svn r27829 | kyle++ | [t/spec] label test for RT #63306 12:02
missingthepoint kyle++ 12:03
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missingthepoint rakudo: if 'bar3' ~~ /<+<digit>-[0]>/ { say 'match' } 13:18
p6eval rakudo e02bc0: OUTPUT«perl6regex parse error: Error parsing enumerated character class at offset 26, found '<'␤in Main (src/gen_setting.pm:3363)␤»
JimmyZ hello pmichuad ? 13:55
hello pmichaud ?
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JimmyZ can I add more missing test cases to t/spec/ ? 14:03
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missingthepoint JimmyZ: just go ahead and do it, can revert if necessary 14:06
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pugs_svn r27830 | jimmy++ | added more missing test cases from S03 14:12
missingthepoint JimmyZ: when you commit, it helps the developers if you put a tag on the front of your commit message :) 14:13
JimmyZ ah forgot it
missingthepoint like so: svn commit -m '[t/spec/S03-operators/ternary.t] changed <...>' 14:14
JimmyZ: no problem, just remember it next time :)
JimmyZ too much work makes me forgetful
missingthepoint aye, that it does :) 14:15
(for most of us it does)
pugs_svn r27831 | jimmy++ | [/t/spec/S03-operators/hyper.t] added missing dot 14:17
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KyleHa std: my @r = (1, 2, 3)>>++; 15:25
p6eval std 27831: OUTPUT«ok 00:02 38m␤»
KyleHa perl6: my @r = (1, 2, 3)>>++; 15:26
p6eval elf 27831: OUTPUT«Useless use of a constant in void context at (eval 121) line 3.␤Can't modify constant item in postincrement (++) at (eval 121) line 3, near ")++"␤Too many arguments for postincrement (++) at (eval 121) line 3, near ")++"␤ at ./elf_h line 5881␤»
..pugs: ( no output )
..rakudo e02bc0: OUTPUT«Statement not terminated properly at line 2, near ">>++;"␤in Main (src/gen_setting.pm:3363)␤»
KyleHa pugs: my @r = (1, 2, 3)>>++; say @r;
p6eval pugs: OUTPUT«<Error><Error><Error>␤»
KyleHa rakudo: my @r = (1, 2, 3).map: { .++ }; say @r; 15:29
p6eval rakudo e02bc0: OUTPUT«Unable to parse block; couldn't find final '}' at line 2, near ".++ }; say"␤in Main (src/gen_setting.pm:3363)␤»
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JimmyZ std: (1,4,9).>>.++.say 15:35
p6eval std 27831: OUTPUT«ok 00:02 37m␤»
JimmyZ std: (1,4,9).>>.++++.say
p6eval std 27831: OUTPUT«ok 00:02 37m␤»
JimmyZ std: (1,4,9).>>++++.say
p6eval std 27831: OUTPUT«ok 00:02 37m␤»
JimmyZ std: (1,4,9).>>++++.perl.say
p6eval std 27831: OUTPUT«ok 00:02 37m␤»
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eric256 any perlmonks gods around? 15:41
KyleHa I'm a mere saint.
eric256 ;) yea i need password assistance 15:42
since the leak screwed me over
KyleHa That's what I figured.
eric256 yea whoever got me got my gmail account as well so i can't recover my password...and they changed the alt email on the account so i cant get my gmail back either 15:43
KyleHa Yikes.
15:44 Limbic_Region joined
eric256 hey L~R can you help me with a password issue? 15:44
i just used the logged out msg gods feature too...trying to get control of my accounts back ;(
please? anyone? hmmmphhh dunno what to do now 15:48
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eric256 posted anon in the password change thread...hopefully that will help 15:58
Limbic_Region sorry, wasn't paying attention to the channel
I don't believe anyone in authority is reading that thread to help people 15:59
let me see what you need to do and I will help you
eric256 thanks
16:00 KyleHa left
eric256 i used the pm gods link and posted there as anon, old email address got compromised as well so I posted the new email address 16:00
16:00 KyleHa joined
Limbic_Region so you did perlmonks.org/?node_id=491035 and email [email@hidden.address] 16:01
?
eric256 i didn't email that address yet 16:02
but i can
Limbic_Region I think the issue is that there are no gods currently in the Monastery - the gmail address is probably linked to tye
that's a guess
eric256 oh hurray and google just renabled my other account
i was worried they wouldn't cause i couldn't remember a whole lot of the detail they wanted .. ;) 16:03
Limbic_Region well, it sounds like you had a better time with them than I did with Yahoo on an unrelated hacking incident with my wife's account
Limbic_Region was NOT impressed
eric256 yea google makes you wait 24 hours then asks all sorts of questions about your account. when you used it, who you emailed, folders, creation date, on and on and on. lol very scary but apparently worked...just got the new password, now to see if i got a message from perlmonks on that account 16:05
any idea if passwords are hashed now? 16:06
Limbic_Region no, there will be an announcement and there hasn't been one 16:07
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Limbic_Region a lot of people are upset which is understandable but it isn't like people can drop their day jobs either 16:08
eric256 okay well i'm back in now ;) hashing shouldn't be a big project...anything i could do to assist?
Limbic_Region *shrug* not unless you are one of the gods apparently. The implication was that it wasn't even something devils could help with 16:09
but I am not in the know you know - I am just a regular user - albeit addicted
eric256 lol alright i always thought you where a devil ;) 16:10
pretty odd since no one on that site would ever recommend a user store passwords to then have the site store passwords. 16:11
alright i've hijacked p6 long enough ;)
pmurias does backticks have a function form? 16:16
meant to ask in #perl, sorry
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literal was the Perl 6 Christmas meme borrowed from Ruby? 19:08
I ask because of this: www.reddit.com/r/ruby/comments/8wb6...ed/c0aotv8 19:09
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pmichaud good evening, #perl6 19:35
jnthn hi pmichaud 19:36
Wow, curiously for once we agree on the part of day. ;-) 19:37
pmichaud :-)
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jnthn has just unhappily discovered that there are...issues...when you .wrap something from a trait handler. :-/ 19:40
(Might not be specific to trait handlers...might be related to another RT ticket too)
Ah, seems it is vaguely related to them. :-( 19:43
Suspect it's because of the twiddling with outer scopes, and loadinit time has some issues there. 19:44
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jnthn pmichaud: Got plans for tomorrow? Want to meet up to plan/do Rakudo bits? 20:03
...or just to drink beer? ;-)
20:09 hah left
pmichaud jnthn: I was thinking about crashing szagab's Perl 6 tutorial (and hacking from there) 20:12
but other than that I have few plans for tomorrow other than hacking
(or planning, or whatever) 20:13
20:26 eric256 left 20:32 ivast joined
pmichaud wanders off to grab some dinner 20:32
20:59 mberends joined 21:16 frew_ left 21:19 Whiteknight joined 21:20 ruz_mac_ left 21:21 ruz_mac joined 21:25 simcop2387 is now known as simcop2388, simcop2388 is now known as simcop2387 21:43 maja joined 21:56 maja_ left 22:35 masak joined
masak oh hai, perl6ers. 22:35
phenny masak: 07:54Z <wayland76> tell masak Tree: github.com/wayland/Tree/tree/master (needs work before it's even coherent; there's an XML grammar in there, but that's just so that we can play with it until we can get something we like :) )
masak wayland76: cool. will look. 22:36
I have many questions, after participating in szabgab's course.
those students were curious people, and had many good questions, which I took down. 22:37
is there someone awake/not in transit that I can ask? :)
22:43 pmurias left
cj diakopter: moo? 22:46
diakopter: jooseedis? wp.colliertech.org/cj/?cat=194
masak rakudo: printf "%s %s,\n%s, %s!\n%s %s,\n%s\n", ("How I'd like", "some apple pie", "It'd make me such a happy monkey")[0,1,1,1,0,1,2] 22:49
p6eval rakudo e02bc0: OUTPUT«How I'd like some apple pie,␤some apple pie, some apple pie!␤How I'd like some apple pie,␤It'd make me such a happy monkey␤»
jnthn masak: oh hai 22:53
masak jnthn: \o/
jnthn: got some q's for you.
jnthn kk
masak How come .= exists if infix:<.> is fiddly?
oops, maybe I'll ask TimToady that. :)
jnthn Remember that .= can be parsed two ways. 22:54
masak because of array assignment?
jnthn (As an op and as a dotty.)
masak oh, right.
jnthn $x.=foo;
$x .= foo
Those parse differently.
masak nodnodnod
ok, next q:
rakudo: my @a = 1,2,3; @a >>+<<= (4,5,6); say ~@a 22:55
p6eval rakudo e02bc0: OUTPUT«No applicable methods.␤in Main (/tmp/vbp7P0zR3v:2)␤»
jnthn (But *should* semantically be the same. Apart from I screwed it up somehow...so occasionally somehow they differ.)
masak should that work, or am I just insane?
jnthn >>+=<< IIRC.
masak std: my @a = 1,2,3; @a >>+<<= (4,5,6); say ~@a
p6eval std 27831: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Preceding operator expects term, but found infix = instead at /tmp/r60Y1Kqgbw line 1:␤------> my @a = 1,2,3; @a >>+<<=⏏ (4,5,6); say ~@a␤FAILED 00:02 39m␤»
masak jnthn: oh.
std: my @a = 1,2,3; @a >>+=<< (4,5,6); say ~@a
22:55 orafu joined
jnthn std: my @a = 1,2,3; @a >>+=<< (4,5,6); say ~@a 22:55
oops, I'm laggy. :-)
p6eval std 27831: OUTPUT«ok 00:03 41m␤» 22:56
masak rakudo: my @a = 1,2,3; @a >>+=<< (4,5,6); say ~@a
p6eval rakudo e02bc0: OUTPUT«Statement not terminated properly at line 2, near ">>+=<< (4,"␤in Main (src/gen_setting.pm:3363)␤»
jnthn I doubt Rakudo handles that since it's a nested meta-operator.
masak ok.
I won't bother reporting it, I think.
jnthn We pre-generate various meta-op forms.
Well, if you do it wants to be a general catch-all ticket.
masak nah. 22:57
jnthn Otherwise we've enough combinations to file an infinite number of tickts. ;-)
masak you'll get there eventually, I'll bet.
rakudo: my $a = "foo"; $a eq= "bar"
jnthn It waits on parsing changes.
p6eval rakudo e02bc0: OUTPUT«No applicable methods.␤in Main (/tmp/3HhipurQY7:2)␤»
masak jnthn: now, this came up in class.
jnthn That one surprises me a little.
masak infix:<eq> is diffy, I know.
but why is that an issue here?
jnthn std: my $a = "foo"; $a eq= "bar"
p6eval std 27831: ( no output )
jnthn ?? 22:58
std: my $a = "foo"; $a eq= "bar"
Tene If an infinite number of tickets are filed in an infinite number of bug trackers, do they make a sound?
p6eval std 27831: ( no output )
masak std--
jnthn std: my $a = "foo"; $a eq= "bar"
p6eval std 27831: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Can't make assignment out of eq because chaining operators are diffy at /tmp/3WJraUiJqR line 1:␤------> my $a = "foo"; $a eq=⏏ "bar"␤FAILED 00:04 37m␤»
jnthn plzthistime?
Oh, hmm
masak diffy. told ya.
but why is that an issue?
jnthn OK, so Rakudo is wrong to parse it.
I'm not sure on that one. I delegate to TimToady. :-)
masak yes, but why is STD.pm right not to parse it? 22:59
jnthn I'm not sure on the rational.
masak after discussing in class today, it doesn't seem unreasonable to have assignment-meta-opped diffy ops.
jnthn No, it doesn't strike me as unreasonable at first glance.
masak right. next q. 23:00
std: my @a = 1,2,3; for @a -> $a, $b = 5 { say $a, "\t", $b }
jnthn I'd be interested to hear the reasoning too.
p6eval std 27831: ( no output )
masak rakudo: my @a = 1,2,3; for @a -> $a, $b = 5 { say $a, "\t", $b }
p6eval rakudo e02bc0: OUTPUT«1 2␤StopIteration␤in Main (/tmp/r6gsEBomrO:2)␤»
masak that can't be right.
jnthn Rakudo bug.
masak submits
jnthn Granted, it's a little tricky to deal with. But Rakudo should imo handle that. 23:01
rakudo: my @a = 1,2,3; for @a -> $a, $b? { say $a, "\t", $b }
p6eval rakudo e02bc0: OUTPUT«1 2␤StopIteration␤in Main (/tmp/tNbB2dBjAU:2)␤»
masak rakudo: my @a = 1,2,3,4; for @a -> $a, $b = 5 { say $a, "\t", $b }
jnthn OK, good, so it's general. 23:02
p6eval rakudo e02bc0: OUTPUT«1 2␤3 4␤»
masak that's part of the bug.
jnthn Not specific to the default being implicit.
erm
the default making the parameter implicitly optional.
I think this may have been ticketed before.
masak quite possibly. 23:03
we have too many RT tickets.
jnthn It's come up before.
masak someone should, like, decrease their number or something.
jnthn :-P
It does'nt help that there are dupes.
masak "it's not my fault!" cried the Slashdot editor. 23:04
jnthn ;-)
masak ok, so here's an interesting one:
rakudo: my @a = "A", 20, "B", 23, "C", "D", 30; for @a -> Str $name, Int $age? { say $name, "\t", $age }
jnthn Well, our ticket queue isn't *that* bad. ;-)
p6eval rakudo e02bc0: OUTPUT«A 20␤B 23␤Parameter type check failed; expected Int, but got Str for $age in call to _block66␤in Main (/tmp/cBBanBG22E:2)␤»
masak jnthn: right, I've seen worse :) 23:05
jnthn I'm not sure why that one is interesting.
masak jnthn: oh, come on! what would it take for this one to work?
jnthn Nothing that I'd like to see happen.
masak jnthn: is it the same issue as the one with .reduce?
ok, so it's a non-issue, then. 23:06
next q:
jnthn Well, maybe, apart from you don't get to supply multiple candidates to handle the for loop body. ;-)
erm, no, I'm not recommending that. ;-)
masak :)
can we have multi dispatch on return types?
jnthn No
masak people requested it today when I told them want() was dead. 23:07
jnthn In 6.0.0 this is spec'd as "not required to happen".
masak oh, but there's still room for it?
jnthn It has all of the implementation issues of want - and more.
I think the better answer is going to be finding a good way to do contextual return values.
The chained dispatch case makes it really hard to see a good solution for this. 23:08
some_multi(another_multi($x))
Here, there may be several candidates for some_multi 23:09
masak jnthn: exactly that case was discussed today.
jnthn Thus if another_multi wants to go by return type, well, ambiguous.
masak jnthn: I'm not making a case for this, just saying that people expressed an interest.
rakudo: class A { method foo { has $.bar } } 23:10
p6eval rakudo e02bc0: OUTPUT«Attempt to define attribute $!bar outside of class, role, or grammar at line 2, near "} }"␤in Main (src/gen_setting.pm:1742)␤»
masak may I flag this as a 'less than awesome' error message?
jnthn To be honest, I think that's (a) because people are used to doing it that way in Perl 5, and hopefully will become more comfortable with the Perl 6 approach with time, and (b) people aren't used to multiple dispatch and find it hard to see why return type based dispatch runs into issues. 23:11
masak jnthn: ack.
jnthn If we added "body" to the end of that message, is it more awesome? 23:12
masak jnthn: first thing people asked after learning that given/when auto-breaks, was "how do I make it not break?"
jnthn: slightly.
jnthn OK. Please if you're going to ticket it suggest how you'd like it worded, or at least why the current wording is weak.
how to make it not break - continue, IIRC. 23:13
I forget off hand.
There's a way.
Tene $?BLOCK.leave, iirc
AKA just 'leave'
jnthn Does that work already? 23:14
leave feels...curious.
I know *why* it works.
It just in that context doesn't feel very self-documenting.
masak jnthn: yes, 'continue'. I know the answer, it was the fact that people immediately asked (because they were used to the old way) that was interesting 23:15
jnthn Yes. 23:16
masak rakudo: say (1..10).sort(&rand)
p6eval rakudo e02bc0: OUTPUT«too many arguments passed - 0 params expected␤in sub rand (src/gen_setting.pm:381)␤called from method Any::map (src/gen_setting.pm:183)␤called from Main (/tmp/KWXrCs0YDb:2)␤»
jnthn I think it's huffmanized the right way.
masak shouldn't that work?
jnthn: not only huffmanized, but actually sane.
Tene There's a 'continue' statement?
what does it do?
masak Tene: didn't you implement that? :)
Tene isn't that 'next'? 23:17
masak Tene: it non-leaves the 'when' block.
pmichaud there's a 'continue' insi... what masak++ said
(good evening, #perl6)
masak pmichaud: oh hai!
Tene ah
masak pmichaud: are you in teh Lisbon?
IM IN UR LISBON, HACKING UR RAKUDO. 23:18
Tene rakudo: given 1 { when * { say 'a'; continue }; when * { say 'b'; continue }; say 'c' }
p6eval rakudo e02bc0: OUTPUT«a␤b␤c␤»
masak \o/
Tene masak: once the commits make it to the repo, they're eligible for GC in my memory.
masak Tene: sounds wonderful. then no-one can get blamed afterwards. 23:19
Tene masak: yes, 'git blame' indicates that I did implement that.
jnthn rakudo: say &rand.multi
p6eval rakudo e02bc0: OUTPUT«0␤»
jnthn rakudo: say &rand.signature.perl
p6eval rakudo e02bc0: OUTPUT«:(Any *@args)␤» 23:20
pmichaud masak: yes, I'm in Lisbon
jnthn Erm. :-/
masak pmichaud: welcome!
jnthn rakudo: say &rand.arity
masak jnthn: wrong, right?
pmichaud Note that slurpies are supposed to be Object, not Any
p6eval rakudo e02bc0: OUTPUT«0␤»
Tene masak: hacking on my roguelike tonight...
jnthn masak: Well the answers can't both be right. ;-)
masak Tene: nice!
jnthn: so, bug tikkit?
jnthn Anyway, rnad is 0-ary, at least as far as Rakudo knows it.
masak jnthn: right, so &sort should accept it. 23:21
jnthn So in your sort example, Rakudo doesn't really know what to do with an 0-ary.
masak rakudo: 'rnad'.comb.pick(*).say
p6eval rakudo e02bc0: OUTPUT«adrn␤»
masak darn!
Tene *any* 0-ary sub passed to sort is effectively a random sort.
so we can optimize that and just return the list in the same order it was passed. :) 23:22
jnthn Tene: Right!
lol!
pmichaud well, it depends on the 0-ary.
masak indeed.
pmichaud a 0-ary sub that always returns zero should end up not modifying the sort
jnthn Aye.
True.
It's odd anyway. ;-)
Tene is Perl 6's sort guaranteed to be stable? 23:23
masak Tene: aye.
jnthn But maybe sort could be made to understnad 0-ary blocks.
masak jnthn: spec says it should.
jnthn ah, ok 23:24
Then, fix it. :-)
masak submits rakudobug
jnthn Or rakudobug. ;)
pmichaud the spec says it supports 0-ary blocks?
masak pmichaud: aye.
pmichaud weird 23:25
masak aye.
pmichaud anyway, I want to rewrite Rakudo's sort in p6 anyway
(with inlined PIR)
currently it's pure-PIR, and doesn't need to be
I had been waiting on getting postcircumfix:<[ ]> refactored, which has been done now
jnthn It has?
Nice!
jnthn hadn't realizized that that refactor thad landed. 23:26
pmichaud yes, a couple of months ago 23:27
there might be a bit more to do there, but it was the thing that was holding up *-1
jnthn But we don't do *-1 right yet? Or do we?
rakudo: (*-1).WHAT.say 23:28
p6eval rakudo e02bc0: OUTPUT«WhateverCode()␤»
jnthn Oh, we do.
OK. :-)
rakudo: (*-1).(43).say
p6eval rakudo e02bc0: OUTPUT«42␤»
jnthn \o/
pmichaud++
OK, time for me to get a bit of sleep
Catch you all tomorrow
pmichaud jnthn: it's even better 23:29
rakudo: ((*-1)/2).(43).say
jnthn At the pre-registration I guess, if not before. :-)
p6eval rakudo e02bc0: OUTPUT«21␤»
jnthn oh wow!
Really nice.
pmichaud jnthn: when/where should we get together tomorrow?
masak pmichaud++
jnthn pmichaud: Up to you. Where/when is the P6 tutorial?
pmichaud I'm planning to attend the Perl 6 tutorial. Building C8, iirc 23:30
jnthn OK
masak jnthn: boa noite!
pmichaud: yes, C8.
jnthn We'll late bind the decision and work it out tomorrow. ;-)
masak pmichaud: I attended today.
jnthn -> sleep
pmichaud fair enough. You should be able to catch me online.
masak pmichaud: it was worth it. I'm glad you're going tomorrow.
pmichaud masak: yes, I saw backscroll. Glad you're watching what's happening there.
masak (I'll likely not go. need to procrastinate presentation a bit more) 23:31
pmichaud I would've gone today but my flights were very late so that it would've been close to 2pm before I could get there. I decided sleep was better than ~2 hrs at p6
masak pmichaud: guessed as much.
pmichaud masak: you won't be there? what's going on instead? ;-)
masak pmichaud: presentation procrastination :) 23:32
pmichaud ahhhh
it feels very strange to not have that issue (for me)
masak it takes a lot of time to procrastinate right.
pmichaud: aye, I look forward to some day being in that situation.
pmichaud I'm usually an expert at procrastinating presentations. This time events just conspired against me
masak sorta like a late binding that just happened to be resolved at compile time... 23:34
pmichaud yes
or it was a fortunate compile-time optimization :-) 23:35
masak heh :) 23:36
23:37 jferrero joined
pmichaud so, I'm curious -- was last night at the hostel as wild as projected? 23:37
or did it remain "calm"?
masak pmichaud: it was almost disappointingly orderly.
pmichaud: biggest disturbance was Croatian room-mates forgetting their keycard all the time and knocking on the door. 23:38
pmichaud alas 23:39
I'm feeling pretty decadent in my hotel room -- it's far nicer than I was expecting.
23:39 mberends left
pmichaud my only complaint is that there doesn't seem to be much in the way of "see and do" near the hotel 23:40
but maybe I just don't know where to look
masak that's not a problem in our neighbourhood.
we're smack in the centre of things.
here, there's almost too much to see. 23:41
well, see you tomorrow.
pmichaud see you tomorrow!
masak g'night.
pmichaud looks to see where "here" is.
masak pmichaud: oh, and prepare for no wifi at the class tomorrow. :/
23:42 masak left
pmichaud no wifi? They don't enable it until Monday? Or it just doesn't work? 23:42
(I wondered why things were suspiciously quiet from there today)
23:47 FCO joined 23:52 jauaor left 23:53 ivast left

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