»ö« | perl6.org/ | nopaste: paste.lisp.org/new/perl6 | evalbot usage: 'perl6: say 3;' or rakudo:, alpha:, pugs:, std:, or /msg p6eval perl6: ... | irclog: irc.pugscode.org/ | UTF-8 is our friend!
Set by lichtkind on 5 March 2010.
00:00 ruoso joined 00:10 lue joined
lue ololitsme 00:10
jnthn roflitslue 00:11
lue who doesn't love their computer shutting off at 11PM while finishing up a paper? I do! :( 00:15
jnthn :-/ 00:16
lue ah well :D now to check the logs 00:17
00:17 quietfanatic joined
quietfanatic I just noticed, that "return ' ' ~ $_ if $_ = join( ' ', self.attributes>>.xml)" 00:20
could be more easily written "return ' ' X~ self.attributes>>.xml"
jnthn There's more than one way to cute it. :-) 00:21
quietfanatic I know I'm half a day late on that but whatever
jnthn I hadn't thought of that one. :-)
It is neat. :-)
quietfanatic seems half the time I enter this channel it's from an urge to reply to something in the log... 00:25
s/..//
err, s/\.\.// :)
lue s/$mistakes/$success/ 00:27
jnthn s/'..'//
;-)
00:28 payload left
quietfanatic more than one way to cute it. 00:28
lue TIMTOWTCI 00:29
00:30 lue is now known as TimToki, quietfanatic is now known as TimToteKey, TimToteKey is now known as quietfanatic 00:31 TimToki is now known as lue, frzntoz joined
lue phenny: "知無時" ? 00:31
jnthn Oh no, I accidentally the meme.
quietfanatic Haha, "Wisdom ignorance time" 00:33
lue Support Regular Language (promote "You is" and "I is")
quietfanatic: I knew the Toki in TimToki is "time", but is it really Wisdom Ignorance Time?
jnthn Just speak Swedish. They use är for all of them anyway. :-)
lue (the japanese is TimuToki, btw)
quietfanatic or "Wisdom no time"
but ignorance is the first interpretation my popup dictionary came up with 00:34
lue (checking babylon translator)
quietfanatic Incidentally, that's the same 無 as in Mu.
jnthn Well, I guess if you write Mu in a signature, you're being ignorant about what kinda thing can be passed. :) 00:35
quietfanatic In fact, if it's pronounce "timutoki" than it definitely is mu meaning nothing...
rakudo: say 無.WHAT
p6eval rakudo 43f865: OUTPUT«Could not find sub &無␤current instr.: '_block14' pc 29 (EVAL_1:0)␤»
lue "In intellect nothing" is what babylon.com says. (it's the most trustworthy translator as far as I can tell)
quietfanatic I'm a little disappointed that's not a synonym
:) 00:36
lue TimToady: "知無時" ?
jnthn quietfanatic: Well...it could be made one... ;-)
quietfanatic rakudo: macro 無 { 'Mu' }; say 無.WHAT 00:37
p6eval rakudo 43f865: OUTPUT«Could not find sub &無␤current instr.: '_block14' pc 29 (EVAL_1:0)␤»
jnthn
.oO( There will be modules )
Sadly, macros NYI.
quietfanatic rakudo: constant 無 = Mu; say 無.WHAT
p6eval rakudo 43f865: OUTPUT«Could not find sub &無␤current instr.: '_block14' pc 29 (EVAL_1:0)␤»
jnthn rakudo: sub 無 { Mu }; say 無.WHAT
p6eval rakudo 43f865: OUTPUT«Mu()␤»
jnthn But then you can't use it as a type name...yeah, constant would be better.
quietfanatic gotta commute now 00:38
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jnthn o/ 00:38
00:39 solu joined
lue bye-e o/ 00:39
rakudo: my Mu $a = 3; say $a 00:40
p6eval rakudo 43f865: OUTPUT«3␤»
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lue rakudo: multi sub token:<無>{Mu();}; my 無 $a = 3; say $a 00:43
p6eval rakudo 43f865: OUTPUT«error:imcc:syntax error, unexpected '\n'␤ in file 'EVAL_1' line 58␤Malformed my at line 11, near "\u7121 $a = 3; "␤current instr.: 'perl6;HLL;Grammar;panic' pc 500 (ext/nqp-rx/src/stage0/HLL-s0.pir:328)␤»
jnthn ... 00:46
lue
.oO(worth a shot)
jnthn that's...impressive.
lue
.oO(when you don't know how anything works)
jnthn You confused the codegenerator.
multi sub term:<無>{Mu();};
rakudo: multi sub term:<無>{Mu();};
p6eval rakudo 43f865: OUTPUT«error:imcc:syntax error, unexpected '\n'␤ in file 'EVAL_1' line 58␤»
lue
.oO(apparently, 無 (mu) means bad, poor, zero, nothing, ignorance)
 00:47
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jnthn how on EARTH does that parse. 00:47
std: multi sub term:<無>{Mu();};
p6eval std 30353: OUTPUT«ok 00:01 111m␤»
jnthn ...wow!
lue what would that do? 00:48
jnthn Erm
Well, I didn't particularly expect std to say it was OK!
lue perl6: multi sub term:<無>{Mu();};
jnthn Given it has not one, but *two* unbalanced groping chars.
p6eval rakudo 43f865: OUTPUT«error:imcc:syntax error, unexpected '\n'␤ in file 'EVAL_1' line 58␤»
..elf 30353, pugs: ( no output )
jnthn *grouping.
oh wait 00:49
I mis-read a curly as not a curly
:-(
jnthn is...too tired.
lue
.oO(quick! how do you spell rakudo!)
jnthn rakudo: multi sub term:<無> { Mu(); }; 00:50
p6eval rakudo 43f865: OUTPUT«error:imcc:syntax error, unexpected '\n'␤ in file 'EVAL_1' line 58␤»
jnthn rakudo: multi sub infix:<無> { Mu(); };
p6eval rakudo 43f865: ( no output )
jnthn Oh, it's hosed on categories it doesn't grok.
rakudo: multi sub omgMEDVED:<無> { Mu(); };
lue
.oO(an \n hydrant)
p6eval rakudo 43f865: OUTPUT«error:imcc:syntax error, unexpected '\n'␤ in file 'EVAL_1' line 58␤»
arnsholt loliblogged
jnthn arnsholt: omfg where?! 00:51
lue lolablagger
arnsholt Only took me a week to finish the damned post ^^
blogs.perl.org/users/arne_skjaerhol...cking.html
I'm even starting to approach the point where I can start to try parsing som code and generating some ASTs 00:53
Then we can see about generating some code 00:54
wknight8111 arnsholt++ 00:55
jnthn arnsholt: Nice post! :-)
wknight8111 arnsholt: does that blog have a feed? I can't seem to find a link
arnsholt jnthn: Thank you! I'm still working on finding a tone and style that works for me, but I'm quite happy with that one 00:56
Looks like the front page links to blogs.perl.org/users/arne_skjaerholt/atom.xml 00:57
lue lolitschemistry (I'll stop now)
wknight8111 arnsholt++ # I've subscribed!
arnsholt (And exclusive behind-the-scenes info: What catalysed this post into being was the opening sentence coming to me as I was brushing my teeth =) 00:58
lue It's an epiphany of semi-House proportions! (House proportions require people talking to you about random things) 00:59
arnsholt Cool. Knowing that some people are looking at what I'm doing is certainly a good incentive to keep on working
I tend to do anti-House epiphanies. I complain about my problems to someone that happens to be around, and find the solution in mid-sentence =) 01:00
lue that's also known as Active Epiphany. 01:01
.oO(I can't tell you how many sentences like your post's first I make in a day)
afk (and in IRC-midday too! ah well)
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lisppaste3 cognominal pasted "I added the missing pair syntaxes in nqp" at paste.lisp.org/display/97593 01:13
cognominal will go thru to src/Perl6/Actions.pm to use them 01:14
jnthn It appears you patched the old NQP, not the new nqp-rx? 01:15
Rakudo uses the latter. 01:16
cognominal hum, let me see. 01:17
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cognominal yes, too bad. 01:22
I don't get it. rakudo mast does not pull nqp-rx? 01:23
jnthn No, it lives in etc/nqp-rx/ in Parrot.
cognominal why rakudo master does not use nqp-rx? 01:24
I am confused
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cognominal there are so much branches around, that I have trouble to follow things 01:25
arnsholt From Rakudo's Makefile.in it does look like it uses Parrot's NQP
Only references to nqp are "NQP_EXE = $(PARROT_BIN_DIR)/parrot-nqp$(EXE)" and a handful of files named .nqp 01:26
cognominal gen_parrot.pl pulls out : svn.parrot.org/parrot/trunk parrot 01:28
jnthn, I am completely lost there :( 01:29
probably need some zzzz
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cognominal so gen_parrot.pl pulls the new parrot but not nqp-rx... 01:32
anyway, even if my work is useless, I have learnt a lot in the process 01:33
jnthn cognominal: Rakudo master does use nqp-rx. 01:34
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cognominal how can it if it only pulls the last parrot (which does not use nqp-rx)? 01:35
TimToady std: constant 無 = Mu; 01:37
p6eval std 30353: OUTPUT«ok 00:01 109m␤»
TimToady std: subset 無 of Mu; my 無 $x;
p6eval std 30353: OUTPUT«ok 00:01 107m␤»
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TimToady std: subset 無 of Mu; my 無 無 $x; 01:38
p6eval std 30353: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Multiple prefix constraints not yet supported at /tmp/016IAhnpTb line 1:␤------> subset 無 of Mu; my 無 無 ⏏$x;␤Compilation failed␤FAILED 00:01 107m␤»
jnthn Oh, subset should work in Rakudo.
rakudo: subset 無 of Mu; my 無 $x;
p6eval rakudo 43f865: OUTPUT«Nominal type check failed for parameter '$original'; expected Any but got Mu instead␤current instr.: 'CREATE_SUBSET_TYPE' pc 336588 (src/gen/core.pir:17038)␤»
jnthn oh crap. 01:39
jnthn summons masak++ :-)
pausenclown rakudo: say 10.fmt("0x%s")
p6eval rakudo 43f865: OUTPUT«0x10␤»
pausenclown rakudo: say '10'.fmt("0x%s") 01:40
p6eval rakudo 43f865: OUTPUT«0x10␤»
TimToady that seems relatively...useless...
pausenclown rakudo: say '50'.fmt("0x%s").chr 01:41
p6eval rakudo 43f865: OUTPUT«
pausenclown rakudo: say '55'.fmt("0x%s").chr
p6eval rakudo 43f865: OUTPUT«
pausenclown rakudo: say "5065726C36".comb(/<xdigit>**2/)>>.fmt("0x%s")>>.chr 01:42
p6eval rakudo 43f865: OUTPUT«
pausenclown rakudo: say "5065726C36".comb(/<xdigit>**2/)>>.fmt("0x%s") 01:43
p6eval rakudo 43f865: OUTPUT«0x500x650x720x6C0x36␤»
pausenclown (published examples not working)-- 01:45
rakudo: my @array = <a b c>; for ^Inf Z @array -> $index, $item { say "$index, $item" } 01:48
p6eval rakudo 43f865: OUTPUT«0, a␤1, b␤2, c␤»
pausenclown rakudo: my @array = <a b c>; for 0..* Z @array -> $index, $item { say "$index, $item" } 01:49
p6eval rakudo 43f865: OUTPUT«0, a␤1, b␤2, c␤»
jnthn sleep, night o/
TimToady rakudo: my @array = <a b c>; for ^* Z @array -> $index, $item { say "$index, $item" } 01:53
p6eval rakudo 43f865: OUTPUT«0, a␤1, b␤2, c␤»
TimToady rakudo: my @array = <a b c>; for @array.kv -> $index, $item { say "$index, $item" }
p6eval rakudo 43f865: OUTPUT«0, a␤1, b␤2, c␤»
pausenclown how many elements has Inf..* ? ;-)
TimToady well, count 'em... 01:54
dinner &
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lue aw, I just missed TimToady! (bye jnthn) 02:01
rakudo: my @a = Inf..*; for @array.kv -> $index, $item { say "$index, $item" } 02:03
p6eval rakudo 43f865: OUTPUT«Symbol '@array' not predeclared in <anonymous>␤current instr.: 'perl6;PCT;HLLCompiler;panic' pc 152 (compilers/pct/src/PCT/HLLCompiler.pir:108)␤»
lue rakudo: my @a = Inf..*; for @a.kv -> $index, $item { say "$index, $item" }
p6eval rakudo 43f865: ( no output )
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lue afk 02:56
03:02 ash__ joined 03:17 fridim joined
diakopter delurks 03:20
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lue oh hai whoevers der 04:41
04:44 hercynium left 04:52 eternaleye joined
pugssvn r30354 | lwall++ | [gimme5] support pointing to both ends of missing goal message 04:52
r30354 | [STD] "Couldn't find final" message now point to both ends
r30354 | [STD] more tweaking of sorry messages and goal failure messages
r30354 | [STD] standard quotes now use ~ construct to set goal
r30354 | [STD] vws extra lines now eat line with \V* \v
r30354 | [STD] suppress confusing backtracking on ~<<
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sorear std: (some_big_function(subexp) 05:00
p6eval std 30354: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Unable to parse parenthesized expression; couldn't find final ')' at /tmp/nQlDnTyPiE line 1 (EOF):␤------> (some_big_function(subexp)⏏<EOL> expecting statement modifier loop␤Undeclared routines:␤ 'some_big_function' used
..at line …
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TimToady std: (some_big_function(subexp) 05:21
p6eval std 30354: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Unable to parse parenthesized expression; couldn't find final ')' at /tmp/yLllUVVPTh line 1 (EOF):␤------> (some_big_function(subexp)⏏<EOL> expecting statement modifier loop␤Undeclared routines:␤ 'some_big_function' used
..at line …
TimToady ENOTYET
diakopter I think std now gets rebuilt at the bottom of the hour 05:24
lue
.oO(ESTDNEVERWRONG (in addition, an EYOURFAULT error was returned.))
 05:27
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sorear lue: rule 2 05:28
lue O great. There's a rule book? (next week I'll learn about Eastern Orthodox Camelism) 05:29
I guess rule 2 is "stay on topic" 05:30
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sorear lue: It only has two rules 05:34
TimToady std: (some_big_function(subexp) 05:35
p6eval std 30354: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Unable to parse parenthesized expression at /tmp/BJmfMnVNz9 line 1:␤------> (⏏some_big_function(subexp)␤Couldn't find final ')'; gave up at /tmp/BJmfMnVNz9 line 1 (EOF):␤------> (some_big_function(subexp)⏏<EOL>␤
..…
lue std: [anArray[thatStatesthings] 05:37
p6eval std 30354: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Unable to parse array composer at /tmp/h5MNT7Gbln line 1:␤------> [⏏anArray[thatStatesthings]␤Couldn't find final ']'; gave up at /tmp/h5MNT7Gbln line 1 (EOF):␤------> [anArray[thatStatesthings]⏏<EOL>␤
..expectin…
lue rule 1: camelCase is the only acceptable method of writing variable names with more than one word. :) 05:38
alpha: (my $words_of_joy = 3) andthen die('rule 1! rule 1!'); 05:40
p6eval alpha 30e0ed: OUTPUT«rule 1! rule 1!␤in Main (file /tmp/ufRLtbSzjd, line 0)␤» 05:41
diakopter lue: see the 8th paragraph of perldoc.perl.org/perlhack.html#DESCRIPTION 05:46
lue ...I was wrong about the rules by ~ 75 NaNometers 05:49
.oO(my rule 1&2 are good though (what to call them however...))
I've heard of that before, I like the summary better (Larry is always right, even when he's wrong). I call it the right when wrong rule. :) 05:50
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lue afk 05:52
06:01 frzntoz joined 06:31 alester left 06:43 Yunga left
moritz_ good morning 07:14
sorear hello
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masak oh hai, #perl! 07:31
s/perl/perl6/
moritz_ \o/ 07:32
masak mostly enjoys the Temporal discussions on p6l
k23z__ hai 07:34
hai masak
I wants to ask if there is plans for symbolic computations like SymPy for Perl6 ? 07:35
masak no plans as far as I know.
would be fun if someone made it a project.
k23z__ because I was trying recently to work out Math::Symbolic from Perl5 and I encountered serious problems at which point I switched to SymPy 07:36
sorear "Not competing with Mathematica" is a stated design goal
Rakudo build performance has increased 60 fold since I joined the project
I just tried it, if finished in 13 minutes 07:37
that's like, 1 month
moritz_ masak: do you agree with adding a Date-only type on Temporal?
masak moritz_: I'd tend to agree with anything autarch says :) 07:38
moritz_: what I am wondering is this: if there's to be a standalone Date type, is there also a need for a standalone Time type?
maybe I should ask him that on the list...
moritz_ not sure
k23z__ anyone here know a good book on writing a Symbolic computation package ? 07:40
the main problem is that for example Math::Symbolic produces big expression trees that are hard to manipulate
07:42 k23z__ is now known as kerz___
moritz_ I think that's the main problem with all CAS packages 07:42
because simplifying an expression tends to take exponential time
kerz___ well Math::Symbolic has Math::Symbolic::Custom::Transformation 07:44
with it you can write transformation for the expression trees
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kerz___ thus yielding bigger or smaller expressions depending on desire 07:45
but it has problems ... like for example I have to apply a lot of time some transformations to get the desired result
and when I print my expression it has lots of redundant parenthesis 07:46
masak mberends!
moritz_ std: 'a' ~<< 1, 2
p6eval std 30354: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Unable to parse quote words at /tmp/R8tKpiVD7m line 1:␤------> 'a' ~<<⏏ 1, 2␤Couldn't find final '>'; gave up at /tmp/R8tKpiVD7m line 1 (EOF):␤------> 'a' ~<< 1, 2⏏<EOL>␤Compilation failed␤FAILED 00:01 109m␤»
mberends \o masak, I suggest a 'use Date' and Date.pm6 as an immediate solution
for the question of whether Date as a type should be in core 07:47
(I prefer to avoid core bloat) 07:48
masak I can definitely agree with that perspective. 07:50
it's still debatable whether DateTime itself belongs in core... 07:51
mberends we're starting to see candidate modules to be shipped with Rakudo *
masak: well we need something time-related in the core, it's always a matter of drawing the line 07:52
masak *nod* 07:53
mberends masak: something derived from proto's Installer.pm and Ecosystem.pm will also go into Rakudo * ;)
and we have Test.pm and Safe.pm. I hope we begin copying them all to ~/.perl6/lib/ soon 07:54
moritz_ nope
packages shipped with rakudo belong in the rakudo install dir 07:55
so that a site wide install gets all the modules
mberends yes, that's better 07:56
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moritz_ has a new display, 24" Dell wide screen 07:58
sad that non-wide-screen monitors in that size aren't cheap 07:59
Su-Shee good morning.
mberends the movie industry is setting the hardware specs for the computer industry 08:00
masak Su-Shee: \o
Su-Shee sad that displays with a nice resolution are seriously expensive :/
moritz_ aye
\o/ melange sorting bug fix is shipped 08:01
/o\ but I can't view any proposals :( 08:02
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masak I got GGE to build on master yesterday. 08:10
but it fails the 03-optable.t tests with 'Null PMC access in can()'... will investigate that next. 08:11
moritz_ Null PMC access in can() - that rings a bell 08:12
masak current instr.: '&infix:<=>' 08:14
if that helps.
moritz_ rakudo: use Test; plan 1; isa_ok (1|2), Junction 08:15
p6eval rakudo 43f865: OUTPUT«1..1␤Null PMC access in get_iter()␤current instr.: '!DISPATCH_JUNCTION_CORE' pc 16360 (src/builtins/Signature.pir:151)␤»
moritz_ hm, not can()
masak it will be interesting to see what is the cause of this :)
moritz_ code.google.com/p/soc/issues/detail?id=869 08:19
masak typical adaptation of a mid-sized Perl 6 application to new Rakudo master: github.com/masak/gge/commit/839bd22...7d1e9560c9 08:28
moritz_ masak: how do you know it's typical? 08:36
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masak because I've already done one before. :) 08:38
moritz_ my changes to JSON::Tiny looked quite different 08:39
but that was in an earlier stage of rakudo
and JSON::Tiny is much smaller
masak *nod*
the November adaptation was a little bit less involved: github.com/viklund/november/commit/...5fa5f8d4cc 08:48
my mom is showing me a bunch of plants, some of them of the Camelia family. :) apparently, the tea plant belongs in this family. 08:53
s:g/family/genus/
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masak wow, we've come a long way since this: www.perlmonks.org/index.pl?node_id=434972 09:09
we no longer allow subs to be called as methods.
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masak I'm not sure *$x means the same in a signature... maybe, maybe not. 09:10
we do, however, allow subs to be automatically created from methods, though 'is export'. 09:12
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masak jnthn++ # parrot-dev email 09:38
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masak rakudo: sub infix:<;>($a, $b) { $a + $b }; say 40; 2 09:42
p6eval rakudo 43f865: OUTPUT«42␤Method 'Num' not found for invocant of class 'Perl6Sub'␤current instr.: 'perl6;Mu;' pc -1 ((unknown file):-1)␤»
masak cackles
09:43 payload1 joined, payload left
masak rakudo: sub infix:<;>($a, $b) { $a + $b }␤ say 40; 2 09:43
p6eval rakudo 43f865: OUTPUT«42␤»
09:43 payload1 left
masak whoa :) 09:43
09:43 payload joined
masak rakudo: sub infix:<#>($a, $b) { $a ~ $b }; say 'OH' # "HAI" 09:44
p6eval rakudo 43f865: OUTPUT«OH␤»
masak oh.
09:44 payload left, payload joined
masak probably gets eaten by the whitespace monster. 09:44
rakudo: sub infix:<,>($a, $b) { $a + $b }; say 1, 2, 3 09:45
p6eval rakudo 43f865: OUTPUT«123␤»
masak and there's a comma monster, too :)
&
sorear sorry if this is too much traditionalthink, but why would a comment NOT take precedence over an infix operator?
moritz_ sorear: it's an implementation detail 09:46
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moritz_ basically the rule that eats up the witespace before the # also eats the whole comment 09:52
which is quite sane in terms of parsing speed
masak sorear: I'd tend to agree with you. as far as I know, the spec doesn't say which things override operators and which don't. as usual, I'm looking for ways to achieve consistency. 10:28
sorear std: sub infix:<#>($a, $b) { ... }; say 1 # syntax`error 10:29
p6eval std 30354: OUTPUT«ok 00:01 110m␤»
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jnthn o/ 11:07
masak++ # Moving to master \o/ 11:15
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jnthn afk, herrfest 13:13
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cognominal now makes sense of rakudo using nqp-rx. I guess this now should be the default. 13:45
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moritz_ rakudo: ([0, 0], [1, 1]).grep({say .perl; 1}).eager; 14:13
p6eval rakudo 43f865: OUTPUT«[0, 0]␤[1, 1]␤»
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moritz_ rakudo: say [X] [<a b c>] xx 3 14:50
p6eval rakudo 43f865: ( no output )
moritz_ rakudo: say [X] <a b c> xx 3
p6eval rakudo 43f865: ( no output )
14:55 mikehh joined 14:56 athomaso1 left 14:57 arthur-_ joined 15:02 colomon joined
colomon we can haz intertubez? 15:02
moritz_ seemz like you haz 15:03
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pugssvn r30355 | moritz++ | [t/spec] tests for RT #67948, .perl in .grep with arrays in the list 15:06
15:08 athomason joined 15:09 colomon left 15:11 synth joined 15:12 synth left 15:17 frzntoz left 15:18 clintongormley joined 15:24 meppl joined 15:29 payload left
moritz_ when I write a Date module, should I handled years > 9999? 15:31
:-)
ash__ what about years less than 1900? or in BC?
:p
(lots of date tools don't go very far backwards)
moritz_ less than 1900 can still be written as 0120 or so
ash__ how are you planning on storing the year? i don't see why it should stop at 9999 15:33
TimToady and year 1 BC is really 0 AD, and 2 BC is -1 AD, and so on. :) * 1/3 15:36
moritz_ ash__: integers... It's more about allowed formats for the constructor 15:40
ash__: but in the end I think it's sane to allow Date.new('YYYY-MM-DD') for years 0 to 9999, and require Date.new(:year(2e6), :day(), :month()) for all years outside that range
ash__ doesn't YYYY-MM-DD have a name? 15:45
like, that style of format
moritz_ yep, some ISO-$forgotthatnumber short format
pugssvn r30356 | lwall++ | [STD] inside quotes, when expecting a postfix extension, 15:46
r30356 | presume that a backslash belongs to the quotes and is not an unspace
ash__ you could do Date.iso-8601('YYYY-MM-DD') format 15:47
i should probably read the new temporal before i start making stupid suggestions though
moritz_ after the discussion today or yesterday I thought I'd prototype a Date (no time) module 15:48
and then ask people if they want something like that in core or not
s/not/as an external module/
anway, going away for a while... 15:49
ash__ Date.new just seems vague, IMO
i am obviously nit-picking the name of the constructor, but in this case i think Date.new can be confusing because there are so many different ways you can construct a date, being explicit might be useful to the date module to reduce confusion 15:51
moritz_ that's why I want MMD and awesome error messages 15:52
and a very narrow selection of allowed things
ash__ Date.now (new date with the current time), Date.iso-8601, etc.
moritz_ Date.today()
ash__ yeah, that makes me since, .now would be a time thing, not a date specifically
moritz_ really afk & 15:53
15:53 am0c joined 15:55 snarkyboojum left 15:56 fridim_ left 15:57 colomon joined
colomon we can haz intertubez -- fur realz? 15:58
16:01 synth joined
diakopter o_o 16:03
colomon \o/ 16:04
ash__ having intertubz is fun
diakopter \o_o/
synth imagines his tub being wired for the internet 16:05
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pugssvn r30357 | colomon++ | [Numeric] Move sqrt to Numeric. Remove incorrect return value type of roots. Move cis and unpolar to Real. Add to-radians and from-radians to Numeric. 16:10
16:11 am0c joined 16:15 M_o_C joined
lue y o hai! 16:15
colomon o/
16:20 noobn joined 16:21 noobn left
lue 知無時! (wisdom ignorance time!) 16:22
16:23 am0c left
avar eval: my $foo; my $bar; my $n; $foo [1] [$bar] [$n + 7]; 16:28
pugssvn r30358 | lwall++ | [STD] dwim texas <<>> better 16:30
lue
.oO(Larry's trying to DWIM Texas? How is that possible! (wonder what the <<>> are all about, though)) :)
 16:31
mberends lue: wonder no more. Enter Texas in the search box at the top of perlcabal.org/syn/ 16:35
lue rakudo: my @a=1,3; say (ff @a) 16:37
p6eval rakudo 43f865: OUTPUT«Could not find sub &ff␤current instr.: '_block14' pc 29 (EVAL_1:0)␤»
lue what exactly do the ff and fff operators do? (looking...)
TimToady std: 1 <<+<< 2 16:38
p6eval std 30357: OUTPUT«ok 00:01 109m␤»
TimToady std: 1 <<+<<< 2
p6eval std 30357: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Unable to parse quote words at /tmp/WxurMP6nrX line 1:␤------> 1 <<+<<<⏏ 2␤Couldn't find final '>'; gave up at /tmp/WxurMP6nrX line 1 (EOF):␤------> 1 <<+<<< 2⏏<EOL>␤Compilation failed␤FAILED 00:01 107m␤»
TimToady darn, missed the boat
std: my $x; "$x\[nonesuch\]"; 16:39
p6eval std 30357: OUTPUT«ok 00:01 107m␤»
lue
.oO(don't worry, the boat's coming back!)
TimToady in an hour :(
well, I'll go take a walk
bbl &
lue rakudo: say 1..3; say 1 ff 3
p6eval rakudo 43f865: OUTPUT«Confused at line 11, near "say 1 ff 3"␤current instr.: 'perl6;HLL;Grammar;panic' pc 500 (ext/nqp-rx/src/stage0/HLL-s0.pir:328)␤» 16:40
lue alpha: say 1..3; say 1 ff 3
p6eval alpha 30e0ed: OUTPUT«Confused at line 10, near "ff 3"␤in Main (file <unknown>, line <unknown>)␤»
lue perl6: say 1..3; say 1 ff 3
p6eval pugs: OUTPUT«123␤*** No such subroutine: "&infix:ff"␤ at /tmp/Wj6sKWTly2 line 1, column 15 - line 2, column 1␤»
..elf 30358: OUTPUT«Undefined subroutine &GLOBAL::infix_ff called at (eval 125) line 4.␤ at ./elf_h line 5881␤123␤»
..rakudo 43f865: OUTPUT«Confused at line 11, near "say 1 ff 3"␤current instr.: 'perl6;HLL;Grammar;panic' pc 500 (ext/nqp-rx/src/stage0/HLL-s0.pir:328)␤»
16:40 holli joined
lue :/ i guess it's still NYI then 16:41
16:41 szabgabx left
lue rakudo: Inf.int.say; NaN.int.say 16:44
p6eval rakudo 43f865: OUTPUT«Method 'int' not found for invocant of class 'Num'␤current instr.: '_block14' pc 29 (EVAL_1:0)␤»
lue rakudo: Inf.Num.say; NaN.Num.say
p6eval rakudo 43f865: OUTPUT«Inf␤NaN␤»
lue \o/ I guess that means #61602 is no more! (now to make sure there are tests...) 16:45
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mberends phenny, tell moritz_ nice to see a pure Date module, hopefully 'perldoc Date::Simple' is an appropriate feature set. 16:51
phenny mberends: I'll pass that on when moritz_ is around.
lue rakudo: say (Inf.Num == Inf) 16:53
p6eval rakudo 43f865: OUTPUT«1␤»
lue std: Inf.int.say 16:54
p6eval std 30357: OUTPUT«ok 00:01 106m␤»
lue is it OK for int to die on Inf.int and NaN.int ?
mberends rakudo: say Inf+1
p6eval rakudo 43f865: OUTPUT«Inf␤» 16:55
mberends rakudo: say Inf+1 == Inf
p6eval rakudo 43f865: OUTPUT«1␤»
mberends therefore 1 == 0 ?
lue I'm just wondering if .int dying on Inf and NaN is because of implementation or because that's how it's supposed to be.
( wouldn't want to test for something implementation-specific ;) ) 16:56
mberends probably implementation. Inf should not allow all these operations.
lue so Inf.Num must die as well? 16:57
Although .Num returns either Inf or NaN (depending), they aren't numbers. They're concepts.
mberends yes, that would make sense imho. But maybe someone with a stronger mathematical background can show how some operations do make sense. 16:58
lue rakudo: say (Inf+1,Inf-1,Inf*1,Inf/1).join('\n')
p6eval rakudo 43f865: OUTPUT«Inf\nInf\nInf\nInf␤»
mberends whacky 16:59
lue rakudo: say (Inf+1,Inf-1,Inf*1,Inf/1).join("\n") # *cough*
p6eval rakudo 43f865: OUTPUT«Inf␤Inf␤Inf␤Inf␤»
lue rakudo: say (Inf+1,Inf-1,Inf*2,Inf/2).join("\n") # this would be a more conclusive test :)
p6eval rakudo 43f865: OUTPUT«Inf␤Inf␤Inf␤Inf␤»
lue my @a=1..3; say @a ~~ Inf 17:00
mberends rakudo: say Inf / Inf # heading for insanity
p6eval rakudo 43f865: OUTPUT«NaN␤»
lue rakudo: my @a=1..3; say @a ~~ Inf # *cough*
p6eval rakudo 43f865: OUTPUT«0␤»
lue rakudo: my @a=1..3; say @a ~~ (-Inf..Inf)
p6eval rakudo 43f865: OUTPUT«1␤»
diakopter std: 1 <<+<<< 2 17:01
p6eval std 30358: OUTPUT«ok 00:01 109m␤»
lue well, I'll be back soon (probably in ~ half-an-hour, considering that's when TimToady might come back), and discuss how Inf and NaN are handled :) 17:03
(rule 1!)
holli is there a way to make this dwim? 17:05
rakudo: say "2" ~~ /{ 1+1 }/
p6eval rakudo 43f865: OUTPUT«␤»
holli should be 1
ash__ diakopter: is there a <<< operator? or is that going to be split into a << and < 17:12
holli
.oO( >>>, same as >> but may spread calculations across alternative universes)
 17:13
mberends rakudo: say "2" ~~ / "2" { say "seen two" } / 17:15
p6eval rakudo 43f865: OUTPUT«seen two␤2␤»
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mberends holli: the / { ... } / is not part of the pattern to match, it's an action 17:16
holli rakudo: say "3" ~~ / [ "2" { say "seen two" } | { say "where is the two?" } ] /
p6eval rakudo 43f865: OUTPUT«where is the two?␤␤»
holli mberends: yes, i know. question was how to make the return value of the action become part of the pattern. 17:17
mberends holli: sorry, can't help you with that 17:18
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TimToady rakudo: say "2" ~~ / <{ 1+1 }> / 17:33
p6eval rakudo 43f865: OUTPUT«␤»
17:33 Su-Shee joined
TimToady rakudo: say "2" ~~ / <{ ~(1+1) }> / 17:33
p6eval rakudo 43f865: OUTPUT«␤»
TimToady well, that's supposed to work
holli lol 17:34
TimToady rakudo: say "2" ~~ / $(1+1) /
p6eval rakudo 43f865: OUTPUT«␤»
holli i can literaly here the *sigh*
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TimToady rakudo: say "2" ~~ / $(~(1+1)) / 17:34
p6eval rakudo 43f865: OUTPUT«Confused at line 11, near "say \"2\" ~~"␤current instr.: 'perl6;HLL;Grammar;panic' pc 500 (ext/nqp-rx/src/stage0/HLL-s0.pir:328)␤»
TimToady std: say "2" ~~ / $(~(1+1)) / 17:35
p6eval std 30358: OUTPUT«ok 00:02 111m␤»
TimToady std: say "2" ~~ / :my $x = 1+1; $x /
p6eval std 30358: OUTPUT«ok 00:01 108m␤»
TimToady rakudo: say "2" ~~ / :my $x = 1+1; $x /
p6eval rakudo 43f865: OUTPUT«␤» 17:36
TimToady rakudo: say "2" ~~ / :my $x = ~(1+1); $x /
p6eval rakudo 43f865: OUTPUT«␤»
TimToady rakudo: say "2" ~~ / :my $x = '2'; $x /
p6eval rakudo 43f865: OUTPUT«␤»
TimToady rakudo: my $x; say "2" ~~ / { $x = '2'} $x /
p6eval rakudo 43f865: OUTPUT«␤»
holli what's the colon supposed to do?
TimToady let you put a declarator 17:37
rakudo: my $x = '2'; say "2" ~~ / $x /
p6eval rakudo 43f865: OUTPUT«␤»
lue rakudo: Inf.Num.say # should this work?
p6eval rakudo 43f865: OUTPUT«Inf␤»
TimToady I thought that worked once
lue: sure 17:38
lue so that would be valid to test for in the spectest? (Inf.Num ~~ Inf)
TimToady rakudo: Inf.Int.say # this is also supposed to work
p6eval rakudo 43f865: OUTPUT«-9223372036854775808␤»
TimToady but not like that :/ 17:39
lue ah, lowercasing doesn't work :)
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TimToady rakudo: Inf.int.say # should blow up 17:39
lue Inf.int (note lowercase int) used to return -2147483648
p6eval rakudo 43f865: OUTPUT«Method 'int' not found for invocant of class 'Num'␤current instr.: '_block14' pc 29 (EVAL_1:0)␤»
TimToady int is a native type, and therefore can't hold Inf 17:40
only native num can hold Inf
lue rakudo: say -9223372036854775808 ~~ Inf
TimToady since IEEE defined it that way
p6eval rakudo 43f865: OUTPUT«0␤»
lue so #61602 is still a mystery :/
I can't help but feel uneasy that Inf and NaN are defined as numbers... 17:41
17:42 alester left
holli reads something like "get_hll_global $P24, ["XML";"Parser";"Namespace"], "_block23"" and quickly decides to close that file again 17:43
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lue rakudo: say Inf.WHAT 17:45
p6eval rakudo 43f865: OUTPUT«Num()␤»
lue rakudo: say NaN.WHAT
p6eval rakudo 43f865: OUTPUT«Num()␤»
colomon At one point we were muttering about maybe making Inf and NaN their own types, instead of making them values of every Numeric (Real?) type...
lue
.oO(Not A Number is Num....)
 17:46
17:46 alester joined
lue (again, the thought of a dependency-tree-like method of defining numbers is thought) 17:47
maybe NaN and Inf can be defined as a Concept, and not a Num :) 17:48
17:49 alester left
lue rakudo: say Inf.Num.Int 17:50
p6eval rakudo 43f865: OUTPUT«-9223372036854775808␤»
lue wonders what posesses rakudo/parrot to return that as an Int
lue (of Inf, of course) 17:51
holli It "feels" right, imho 17:53
I mean, why should Inf be fractional? 17:54
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holli rakudo: say Inf ** Inf 17:55
p6eval rakudo 43f865: OUTPUT«Inf␤»
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lue why should Inf be an integer? It's not a number, it's a concept. 17:56
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lue what I meant was why return that number? 17:59
holli A concept of an arbitrarily large number
lue rakudo: say "17".fmt('%b') 18:00
p6eval rakudo 43f865: OUTPUT«10001␤»
lue rakudo: say "-9223372036854775808".fmt('%b')
p6eval rakudo 43f865: OUTPUT«1000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000␤»
lue rakudo: say "-9223372036854775808".fmt('%b').chars
p6eval rakudo 43f865: OUTPUT«64␤»
holli there u got ur answer =) 18:01
nice catch
lue THAT'S IT! That's why it returns that number as Inf!
holli it it probably lower on my old 32 bit laptop
yup. here it says -2147483648 18:02
rakudo: say :2(-2147483648)
p6eval rakudo 43f865: OUTPUT«DON'T PANIC! Invalid character (-)! Please try again :) ␤current instr.: '&radcalc' pc 12048 (src/builtins/Parcel.pir:78)␤»
lue 2147483647 is what my computer says (G3 PPC) 18:03
holli rakudo: say :2<-2147483648>
p6eval rakudo 43f865: OUTPUT«Malformed radix number at line 11, near "<-21474836"␤current instr.: 'perl6;HLL;Grammar;panic' pc 500 (ext/nqp-rx/src/stage0/HLL-s0.pir:328)␤»
lue try -2147483648.fmt('%b'). That's how you convert _to_
holli: you have 32-bit intel, correct? 18:04
holli rakudo: say :16(20) 18:05
p6eval rakudo 43f865: OUTPUT«32␤»
holli rakudo: say :2(100)
p6eval rakudo 43f865: OUTPUT«4␤»
holli ah, thats the other way aŕound =)
lue rakudo: say :4(222)
p6eval rakudo 43f865: OUTPUT«42␤»
holli honestly i have now idea what processor this is. but 32 bit, for sure 18:06
lue who manufactured the computer?
holli Its a Thinkpaf
lue rakudo: say "-2147483648".fmt('%b')
p6eval rakudo 43f865: OUTPUT«1111111111111111111111111111111110000000000000000000000000000000␤»
holli *Thinkpad
lue then it's most likely intel
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lue rakudo: say :2(1111111111111111111111111111111110000000000000000000000000000000) 18:07
p6eval rakudo 43f865: OUTPUT«DON'T PANIC! Invalid character (8)! Please try again :) ␤current instr.: '&radcalc' pc 12048 (src/builtins/Parcel.pir:78)␤»
holli discovers the sticker where it says Centrino and feels a bit silly
lue ō.o wow
how did the 8 get there?
holli rakudo: say :2(1111111) 18:08
p6eval rakudo 43f865: OUTPUT«127␤»
holli rakudo: say :2(11111111)
p6eval rakudo 43f865: OUTPUT«255␤»
holli rakudo: say :2(111111111)
p6eval rakudo 43f865: OUTPUT«511␤»
holli rakudo: say :2(1111111111)
p6eval rakudo 43f865: OUTPUT«1023␤»
holli rakudo: say :2(1111111111111)
p6eval rakudo 43f865: OUTPUT«8191␤»
holli rakudo: say :2(1111111111111111)
p6eval rakudo 43f865: OUTPUT«65535␤»
holli rakudo: say :2(1111111111111111111)
p6eval rakudo 43f865: OUTPUT«524287␤»
holli rakudo: say :2(1111111111111111111111)
p6eval rakudo 43f865: OUTPUT«DON'T PANIC! Invalid character (4)! Please try again :) ␤current instr.: '&radcalc' pc 12048 (src/builtins/Parcel.pir:78)␤»
lue 10000000000000000000000000000000 is what it should be. (now to go talk to who implemented .fmt)
holli rakudo: say :2(111111111111111111111)
p6eval rakudo 43f865: OUTPUT«DON'T PANIC! Invalid character (4)! Please try again :) ␤current instr.: '&radcalc' pc 12048 (src/builtins/Parcel.pir:78)␤»
holli rakudo: say :2(11111111111111111111)
p6eval rakudo 43f865: OUTPUT«DON'T PANIC! Invalid character (-)! Please try again :) ␤current instr.: '&radcalc' pc 12048 (src/builtins/Parcel.pir:78)␤»
holli rakudo: say :2(1111111111111111111)
p6eval rakudo 43f865: OUTPUT«524287␤» 18:09
lue rakudo: say radcalc('1111111111111111111111',2,10)
p6eval rakudo 43f865: OUTPUT«DON'T PANIC! The radix is out of range (2..36 only)␤current instr.: '&radcalc' pc 12048 (src/builtins/Parcel.pir:78)␤»
lue rakudo: say radcalc('1111111111111111111111',2)
p6eval rakudo 43f865: OUTPUT«DON'T PANIC! The radix is out of range (2..36 only)␤current instr.: '&radcalc' pc 12048 (src/builtins/Parcel.pir:78)␤»
lue goes to look at radcalc again
rakudo: say radcalc(2,'1111111111111111111111') 18:10
p6eval rakudo 43f865: OUTPUT«4194303␤»
lue rakudo: say :2(1111111111111111111111)
p6eval rakudo 43f865: OUTPUT«DON'T PANIC! Invalid character (4)! Please try again :) ␤current instr.: '&radcalc' pc 12048 (src/builtins/Parcel.pir:78)␤»
lue good, it's a problem with the :[number] code, not with the radcalc helper function (which helps :[number]) 18:11
holli rakudo: say :2('1111111111111111111111')
p6eval rakudo 43f865: OUTPUT«4194303␤»
holli rakudo: say :2('11111111111111111111111111')
p6eval rakudo 43f865: OUTPUT«67108863␤»
holli now that is strange 18:12
pugssvn r30359 | lwall++ | [S02] explicate (non)-relationship of interpolation and whitespace/unspace
holli or maybe not.
rakudo: say :2('111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111')
p6eval rakudo 43f865: OUTPUT«2.25179981368525e+15␤» 18:13
lue apparently, you need to string your number if it's big ō.o
holli that makes sense. No number could become bigger than the systems llimit anyway. 18:14
TimToady rakudo doesn't actually support Int yet
18:15 synth left
TimToady Int is arbitrary precision, including Inf :) 18:15
well, arbitrary size, to be precise
all integers have the same precision :)
lue a precision of 1, correct? 18:16
rakudo: say '2147483647'.fmt('%b')
p6eval rakudo 43f865: OUTPUT«1111111111111111111111111111111␤»
TimToady well, it will depend on how you define precision, of course
lue rakudo: say '2147483647'.fmt('%b').chars
p6eval rakudo 43f865: OUTPUT«31␤»
holli rakudo: say -1 ** 0.5
p6eval rakudo 43f865: OUTPUT«-1␤»
TimToady they're not equally precise under the "digits of precision" definition
holli ahemm. =)
TimToady rakudo: say (-1) ** 0.5 18:17
p6eval rakudo 43f865: OUTPUT«NaN␤»
lue that's should be i (for imaginary), actually
TimToady you will note that the precedence of ** is tighter than symbolic unaries 18:18
lue isn't that how it works in math?
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TimToady yes, but holli seems to expect -1 ** 0.5 to make i 18:18
where -1 is the correct answer
holli expect is maybe a big word =) 18:19
*too big
TimToady expectorates when he wants a big word
colomon rakudo: (-1 + 0i) ** .5
p6eval rakudo 43f865: ( no output )
colomon rakudo: say (-1 + 0i) ** .5
p6eval rakudo 43f865: OUTPUT«6.12323399573677e-17 + 1i␤»
holli sure, make fun of the non native speakers ;-) 18:20
holli goes looking up expectorate
TimToady I have nothing against the Romans...
lue I hate them, except for the irrigation system :) 18:21
'Romani Ite Domum'
TimToady Roman Meal bread is pretty good, except I'm allergic to it.
sigh
taxes &
lue
.oO(let us all mourn for Larry)
lue thinks of annoying the math teacher by say exponents are tighter than negation 18:22
holli lue: 5 + 2 * 3 - 1
lue "So, you do multiplication first, and then addition, and--" "So, multiplication is tighter than addition?" "what?" 18:23
colomon: now we see the violence inherent in the system! (and by that I mean the murderous error given by rakudo) 18:25
holli opens a Can Of Pittiness (+10 Adorabilty) for TimToady
rakudo: say Inf - Inf 18:26
p6eval rakudo 43f865: OUTPUT«NaN␤»
lue shouldn't that be 0? Or maybe it's Inf? Or maybe... .oO(AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!) 18:27
ash__ Inf +|-|*|/|% Inf should be Inf
holli considers Inf - Inf to be special case 18:28
No rule without exception =)
ash__ but there is no magnitude on the Inf, and who's to say that two Inf's are the same value of Inf? 18:29
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ash__ if you know that it might as well be a number 18:29
lue
.oO(aleph and beth numbers in my head again) as I love saying: It's NaN, it's a concept.
holli rakudo: say 2*Inf < 3*Inf
p6eval rakudo 43f865: OUTPUT«0␤»
holli ;-D 18:30
rakudo: say 2*Inf == 3*Inf
p6eval rakudo 43f865: OUTPUT«1␤»
holli rakudo: say Nan.WHAT 18:31
p6eval rakudo 43f865: OUTPUT«Could not find sub &Nan␤current instr.: '_block14' pc 29 (EVAL_1:0)␤»
holli rakudo: say NaN.WHAT
p6eval rakudo 43f865: OUTPUT«Num()␤»
holli Now, THAT is paradox. ^^
ash__ lol, its a special kind of number, like imaginary ones 18:32
lue exactly. I'm thinking of the next #rs be about the state of the implementation of numbers.
(of course, not my decision, but...)
mberends "It's Number, Jim, but not as we know it..."
holli next #rs? 18:33
mberends++ # Master of Star Trek (Original) References 18:34
lue short for the #rakudosketch channel. It's to discuss the design & progress of rakudo.
holli aha, well, i looked at PIR code today. 18:35
so i dont want to have nothing to do with your #rs =)
18:36 envi^home left
lue Well, then I guess I'm part of the JPF (or is it the PFJ? I can't remember) :) 18:36
colomon splitter! 18:37
mberends future #rakudosketch meetings will probably happen on Tuesdays at 19:00 UTC
lue 11 AM (for me) on Tuesday? aw :( 18:38
There's no way I could make that until summer! :/ 18:39
holli mberends++ # Master of Monty Python References
lue
.oO(Romanus Eunt Domus)
 18:41
"Well, division by zero is not so much 'physically impossible' as it is 'in violation of mathematical axioms.'" 18:43
afk 18:46
19:12 Exodist_ joined 19:21 zapad_ joined 19:24 M_o_C left 19:26 mantovani joined
holli how do i get the last changed timestamp of a file? 19:26
19:30 jhuni joined
lue *chirp* 19:33
.oO(Oh hey, why do I have TimToady's cricket?)
 19:34
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mberends holli: stat calls are available in Parrot, but only partly in Rakudo, and the dates are NYI. 19:41
holli ah, ok. 19:42
anyway, i got another problem. I did "ln ~/perl6/rakudo/perl6 /usr/bin/perl6" 19:43
but when i then start rakudu, i get a bunch of errors: 19:44
elements() not implemented in class 'Sub'
current instr.: '' pc -1 ((unknown file):-1)
is there something i can do about this?
mberends yes. 19:46
you probably did not "make install" 19:47
then you would "sudo ln -s /some/path/parrot_install/bin/perl6 /usr/bin/perl6" 19:48
lue I know rakudo's famous for this: if I go into the src folder of rakudo, then call ../perl6, this happens: 19:49
Null PMC access in find_method('get_parrotclass')
current instr.: 'perl6;ClassHOW;onload' pc -1 ((unknown file):-1)
Segmentation fault
19:49 jferrero joined
mberends holli: did you use "perl Configure.pl --gen-parrot" to begin building Rakudo? 19:50
holli I did. and i did make install.
mberends holli: then don't link to the perl6 in the rakudo directory, link to the one in parrot_install/bin/ 19:52
holli ah, ln -s /some/path/parrot_install/bin/perl6 /usr/bin/perl6 did the trick
mberends :)
I personally prefer /usr/local/bin/ on Ubuntu because it is less cluttered 19:53
also, I have /usr/local/bin/rakudo and /usr/local/bin/alpha to match the evalbot names :) 19:55
lue mberends: any chance you know the cause of this famous rakudo error? (look up)
mberends looks
19:56 shyam_iyer joined
lue where you can't call rakudo by navigating the directories (i.e. ../perl6 or rakudo/perl6) 19:57
mberends lue: it works locally, but could be related to this "parrot_install/bin" dependency. The perl6 in the rakudo directory is not expected to work when run from any other directory. 19:58
lue that seems a bit counter-productive. :) 19:59
mberends so it's documented. That makes it a "feature", not a "bug" ;P
because "make install" solves the problem, there is no incentive to work on a second solution. 20:01
colomon except maybe giving a better error message when you haven't done "make install" (like alpha did)
lue I'm not the BDFL on the server I work on (so I don't feel like mucking around with make install), and locally I don't have the resources to compile anything I could install! :( 20:02
(I could make a symlink, but...)
colomon lue: for rakudo, make install installs locally by default. You don't need any fancy permissions.
lue :D 20:03
mberends colomon: good point, probably worth a little look 20:04
lue but perl6 doesn't work after make install :( (still would need ./perl)
mberends lue: instead of "ln -s" you could define a bash alias 20:05
lue ō.o
cotto ooc, what kind of obstacles exist to writing a Perl 6 compiler targeting the DLR? 20:06
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pmurias lack of manpower? 20:06
cotto there's a gsoc proposal about doing that and I'm curious what kind of difficulties the student will face 20:07
diakopter 1. The student would need to use one of the existing parsers, since implementing one of those for Perl 6 takes years 20:08
pmurias with STD and rakudo's one being the do sensible possibilitys 20:09
cotto Yeah. I guess the vastness of Perl 6 itself would be the biggest hurdle. 20:10
diakopter 2. Perl 6 control flow (return via exceptions) is different enough from the CLRs that using Callsites in the DLR wouldn't gain anything.
mberends a scaled down but very achievable goal would be to add a DLR emitter to Perlito. 20:12
diakopter 3. Perl 6 types need multiple inheritance and roles; the binding and dispatch builders in the languages already implemented on the DLR wouldn't be of much help. 20:13
cotto perlito? 20:14
pmurias fglock's subset of Perl 6 to multiple backends compiler 20:15
diakopter github.com/fglock/Perlito
4. Perl 6's multiple-stage compilation/evaluation is an issue that I'm not sure the DLR can surmount. 20:16
mberends see also www.perlito.org/ and try it online: www.perlito.org/js/ 20:17
pmurias diakopter: sprixel targets .NET right?
diakopter pmurias: yes, in addition to the first stage being written in C#
pmurias first stage? 20:18
diakopter yes. akin to rakudo's stage0, stage1, etc.
pmurias sprixel lives at github.com/diakopter/sprixel? 20:19
diakopter no
pmurias diakopter: where can i find that? 20:20
diakopter cotto: do you have any comments on the other points I mentioned? 20:21
pmurias: it's embedded somewhere in csmeta.org
cotto diakopter, no 20:26
what you've mentioned is very helpful, especially perlito
20:33 clintongormley left
lue afk 20:36
20:40 iblechbot left
cotto thanks 20:41
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diakopter pmurias: are you looking into csmeta? I've left it deliberately unusable except for those on vs2010rc. 20:41
masak ahoy, #perl6!
mberends \o masak 20:42
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masak continues to debug GGE under Rakudo master 20:43
cotto hopes he's not trolling the dlr perl 6 proposal 20:44
diakopter cotto: btw, I was the one whose private commented included "... for several technical reasons" 20:46
masak rakudo: subset 無 of Mu; my 無 $x;
p6eval rakudo 43f865: OUTPUT«Nominal type check failed for parameter '$original'; expected Any but got Mu instead␤current instr.: 'CREATE_SUBSET_TYPE' pc 336588 (src/gen/core.pir:17038)␤»
masak rakudo: subset A of Mu; my A $x
p6eval rakudo 43f865: OUTPUT«Nominal type check failed for parameter '$original'; expected Any but got Mu instead␤current instr.: 'CREATE_SUBSET_TYPE' pc 336588 (src/gen/core.pir:17038)␤» 20:47
pmurias diakopter: just wanted to see how it's doing, i'm not very interested in .NET
masak submits rakudobug
diakopter rakudo: subset A of Mu; my A $x; 20:49
p6eval rakudo 43f865: OUTPUT«Nominal type check failed for parameter '$original'; expected Any but got Mu instead␤current instr.: 'CREATE_SUBSET_TYPE' pc 336588 (src/gen/core.pir:17038)␤»
diakopter oh
hee
pmurias wanders if there are any privates comments on his gsoc proposal ;) 20:57
mberends diakopter++: the Sprixel first stage roadmap code.google.com/p/csmeta/source/bro.../notes.txt describes a fairly powerful bootstrapping language. Linking to any .NET class is a brilliant feature. How complete is the Sprixel0 implementation? 20:58
diakopter not very 21:00
static invocations work, e.g. Console.WriteLine("blah", 4432 + 332) 21:01
I'm just finishing up named sub declarations 21:02
mberends that must already have a lot of underlying code working. These things don't come easily.
masak diakopter++ 21:03
diakopter today, I'm thinking it will be an assembly language, targetted by viv and/or nqp-rx 21:04
at least until I can get associativity working in the expression parser
but until then, precedence must have parens
I'm hoping that STD will be able to compile itself to this language, which I'm calling perlesque 21:05
masak perlesque \o/
mberends masak: Sprixel0 almost compiles on Linux as well, using mono 2.4.4 21:06
diakopter lots of transformations will be needed in its edition of viv; it probably won't be able to infer types in STD's output, so something will need to be done there
but "a lot can be accomplished with closures"
masak mberends: nice
:) 21:07
diakopter also, class declarations, sorta like PIR's 21:08
including generics eventually, I guess 21:09
so basically, a very small strongly typed impure functional subset of Perl 5/6
mberends sounds like a fun language :) 21:10
diakopter it'll remain vaporware, though, for a while longer. if anyone wants to help, they could take a look at extending viv to other emitters 21:12
or to help TimToady in his quest to make viv --p5 emit the same thing as gimme5 21:13
, from which would provide a stable starting point to derive a perlesque emitter
masak ah. gotcha. 21:14
rakudo: class A {}; my $x = &A::nosuch
p6eval rakudo 43f865: OUTPUT«Null PMC access in can()␤current instr.: '&infix:<=>' pc 16989 (src/builtins/Junction.pir:245)␤»
masak alpha: class A {}; my $x = &A::nosuch
p6eval alpha 30e0ed: ( no output )
masak submits rakudobug
is that still the way to get at a method in Perl 6? 21:15
ash__ i only know of using .^methods 21:21
to get a method
rakudo: class Foo { method f { say 'f' } }; my $a = Foo.^methods(:local); say $a[0]();
p6eval rakudo 43f865: OUTPUT«Not enough positional parameters passed; got 0 but expected 1␤current instr.: 'perl6;Foo;f' pc 450 (EVAL_1:178)␤»
ash__ ehe, still nees a self 21:22
needs*
masak I've previously been using &Class::methodname to get at a method, and it's worked.
ash__ maybe thats supposed to work
rakudo: class Foo { method f { say 'f' } }; my $a = Foo.^methods(:local); $a[0](); 21:23
p6eval rakudo 43f865: OUTPUT«Not enough positional parameters passed; got 0 but expected 1␤current instr.: 'perl6;Foo;f' pc 439 (EVAL_1:177)␤»
ash__ oops
rakudo: class Foo { method f { say 'f' } }; my $a = Foo.^methods(:local); $a[0]('lol_not a foo'); 21:24
masak I'm kinda expecting to use a way that doesn't involve the introspect API.
p6eval rakudo 43f865: OUTPUT«f␤»
masak mostly because I haven't needed it for this before.
ash__ well, maybe we should ask someone about &Class::methodname that seems perfectly reasonable
masak I'm all for asking someone perfectly reasonable :) 21:25
mberends seems perfectly reasonable, until asked such a question ;)
ash__ is there a &() context? 21:26
colomon is the alternative Class::&methodname? I feel like I'm missing context in this discussion... 21:27
ash__ would be nice to also grab methods off an instance as a closure, so you don't have to pass self 21:28
colomon should probably go downstairs and find out what his father-in-law is doing to the house's electrical system...
masak ash__: you can always do that manually, through a closure. I did that in Rakudo back in late 2008 :) 21:29
I was greatly surprised that it worked...
ash__ yeah, but if your talking convenient method accessors... 21:30
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ash__ doing like: my &a = &($foo.methodname); and having it still bound to $foo might be nice 21:30
masak in my case, I just expect to send in the invocant parameter as the first argument.
ash__ i guess thats currying isn't it? 21:31
masak no, it's passing the invocant parameter to something which has the form of a sub :)
alpha: class A { method foo($message) { say $message } }; my $bar = &A::foo; my $a = A.new; $bar($a, "OH HAI") 21:32
p6eval alpha 30e0ed: OUTPUT«OH HAI␤»
masak alpha: class A { method foo($message) { say $message } }; my $bar = &A::foo; my $a = A.new; my &closure = -> $m { $bar($a, $m) }; closure("currying! \o/") 21:33
p6eval alpha 30e0ed: OUTPUT«currying!
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masak I guess that's currying, though... 21:33
a fairly manual kind. 21:34
alpha: class A { method foo($message) { say $message } }; my $bar = &A::foo; my $a = A.new; my &closure = $bar.assuming($a); closure("currying! \o/")
p6eval alpha 30e0ed: OUTPUT«currying!
ash__ rakudo: class A { method foo($message) { say $message } }; my $bar = &A::foo; my $a = A.new; my &closure = $bar.assuming($a); closure("currying! \o/")
p6eval rakudo 43f865: OUTPUT«Unrecognized backslash sequence: '\o' at line 11, near "/\")"␤current instr.: 'perl6;HLL;Grammar;panic' pc 500 (ext/nqp-rx/src/stage0/HLL-s0.pir:328)␤»
masak oops, shoulda had double backslashes there... :) 21:35
ash__ rakudo: class A { method foo($message) { say $message } }; my $bar = &A::foo; my $a = A.new; my &closure = $bar.assuming($a); closure("currying! \\o/")
p6eval rakudo 43f865: OUTPUT«Null PMC access in can()␤current instr.: '&infix:<=>' pc 16989 (src/builtins/Junction.pir:245)␤»
ash__ so... some functionality from alpha still missing 21:36
masak nuh huh.
:)
to be fair, I'm missing less than I thought I would. 21:37
ash__ perlcabal.org/syn/S06.html#Currying 21:38
masak rakudo: class A { method foo { say "OH HAI" } }; my $meth = A.can("foo"); $meth(A.new)
p6eval rakudo 43f865: OUTPUT«OH HAI␤»
masak ah. I seemed to remember it was something like that.
ash__ is that the proper way of doing it? 21:39
masak I think jnthn++ said so.
slightly surprising, in my opinion. :) 21:40
ash__ perlcabal.org/~azawawi/html/spec/S1...can.t.html has an example of that 21:41
mberends goes to sleep, o/ 21:43
colomon \o
21:43 mberends left
masak o/ 21:43
hm; I guess technically it is introspection, too. :) 21:44
but at least it doesn't explicitly involve the metaclass.
ruoso ash__, in Perl 6 methods are not registered in the package by default... 21:48
rakudo: class A { our method foo($message) { say $message } }; my $bar = &a::foo; my $a = A.new; $bar($a, "Hello"); 21:49
p6eval rakudo 43f865: OUTPUT«Null PMC access in can()␤current instr.: '&infix:<=>' pc 16989 (src/builtins/Junction.pir:245)␤»
ash__ so doing &Classname::methodname shouldn't work?
unless you use our
ruoso ash__, unless you have a "our method"
ash__ got ya
masak ah.
ruoso rakudo: class A { our method foo($message) { say $message } }; my $bar = &A::foo; my $a = A.new; $bar($a, "Hello");
p6eval rakudo 43f865: OUTPUT«Hello␤»
ruoso it's important to notice that this &A::foo lookup is absolutely non-OO 21:51
it will look for a routine declared in that package
ash__ rakudo: class A { our method foo($message) { say $message } }; my $a = A.new; my &bar = &A::foo.assuming(self => $a); &bar("Hi"); 21:52
masak gotcha.
p6eval rakudo 43f865: OUTPUT«Symbol 'self' not predeclared in <anonymous> (/tmp/sRy5L0z4Ap:11)␤current instr.: 'perl6;PCT;HLLCompiler;panic' pc 152 (compilers/pct/src/PCT/HLLCompiler.pir:108)␤»
ash__ rakudo: class A { our method foo($message) { say $message } }; my $a = A.new; my &bar = &A::foo.assuming(:self($a)); &bar("Hi");
p6eval rakudo 43f865: OUTPUT«Not enough positional parameters passed; got 1 but expected 2␤current instr.: 'perl6;A;foo' pc 508 (EVAL_1:0)␤»
ruoso rakudo: class A { our method foo($s: $message) { say $message } }; my $a = A.new; my &bar = &A::foo.assuming($s => $a); &bar("Hi") 21:53
p6eval rakudo 43f865: OUTPUT«Symbol '$s' not predeclared in <anonymous>␤current instr.: 'perl6;PCT;HLLCompiler;panic' pc 152 (compilers/pct/src/PCT/HLLCompiler.pir:108)␤»
ruoso rakudo: class A { our method foo($s: $message) { say $message } }; my $a = A.new; my &bar = &A::foo.assuming($a); &bar("Hi")
p6eval rakudo 43f865: OUTPUT«Hi␤»
ash__ cool
that works too
ruoso when you look at a method as a routine, the invocant is just the first positional argument... just like p5 21:57
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lue ohai there! 22:03
masak lue!
lue
.oO(I can't believe it. masak joined 5 minutes after I left a couple hours ago!)
 22:04
pmurias ruoso: i'm running devel cover on mildew
* Devel::Cover 22:05
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lue last off, I was hoping to resolve #61602, when I really opened a new can of worms :) 22:06
rakudo: Inf.Num.say; NaN.Num.say; Inf.Int.say; Inf.NaN.say; # note the number; it's only on 64-bit computers
p6eval rakudo 43f865: OUTPUT«Inf␤NaN␤-9223372036854775808␤Method 'NaN' not found for invocant of class 'Num'␤current instr.: '_block14' pc 29 (EVAL_1:0)␤»
lue rakudo: NaN.Int.say # *cough* 22:07
p6eval rakudo 43f865: OUTPUT«-9223372036854775808␤»
22:08 espadrine left 22:09 IllvilJa left 22:12 JohnDoe365 left
pugssvn r30360 | pmurias++ | [mildew] fix our, saner handling of names with packages 22:13
masak that's not not a number. :)
lue exactly. If you look at #61602, i noted it returns the decimal of a binary number with the highest bit set (# of bits dependent on your CPU) 22:14
s/highest/most significant/ 22:15
lue is starting to get annoyed no-one has implemented := yet, it gets in the way of making sure some pre-ng tickets are still tickets :/ 22:17
alpha: my @a = (1); @a[0] := @a; @a.perl
p6eval alpha 30e0ed: OUTPUT«rtype not set␤in Main (file <unknown>, line <unknown>)␤»
lue ō.o was expecting it to hang 22:18
masak it did, at one point. 22:21
lue I wanted to see if master is fine with it, but := is NYI :/
rakudo: say 3 ~~ !NaN 22:22
p6eval rakudo 43f865: OUTPUT«0␤»
masak that's not how you match negatively against types :) 22:23
though I've toyed with the idea myself of overloading prefix:<!> that way... :)
ash__ is the !NaN Inf? 22:24
lue rakudo: say 3 is not NaN # testing real-language :)
p6eval rakudo 43f865: OUTPUT«Confused at line 11, near "say 3 is n"␤current instr.: 'perl6;HLL;Grammar;panic' pc 500 (ext/nqp-rx/src/stage0/HLL-s0.pir:328)␤»
masak lue: !~~ 22:25
lue rakudo: say 3 !~~ NaN
p6eval rakudo 43f865: OUTPUT«1␤»
lue but that's just not equals. It would be more fun to say equals not Not a Number :)
wait, NaN is a *type*? 22:26
moritz_ nope
phenny moritz_: 16:51Z <mberends> tell moritz_ nice to see a pure Date module, hopefully 'perldoc Date::Simple' is an appropriate feature set.
moritz_ rakudo: say NaN.WHAT
p6eval rakudo 43f865: OUTPUT«Num()␤»
moritz_ phenny: tell mberends yes, Date::Simple is my main source of inspiration
phenny moritz_: I'll pass that on when mberends is around.
sorear lue: a type in Perl 6 is a set of values. {NaN} is a type 22:27
moritz_ the other view is that every value that responds with False to .defined is a type
lue rakudo: say NaN.defined
p6eval rakudo 43f865: OUTPUT«1␤» 22:28
lue rakudo: my NaN $a = 3; say $a # if it's a type, I should be able to do this (?)
p6eval rakudo 43f865: OUTPUT«Type check failed for assignment␤current instr.: '&die' pc 17293 (src/builtins/Junction.pir:404)␤»
22:28 pmurias left
masak it's not a type. 22:30
lue rakudo: say 3 !~~ 4; say 3 ~~ !(4)
p6eval rakudo 43f865: OUTPUT«1␤0␤»
sundar Hi... I have some free time at hand, and would like to contribute to Perl6. What is something that might be easy to implement for a newbie? 22:32
masak sundar: cool! almost anything you do at this point that produces runnable Perl 6 code is of value. 22:33
sundar: it usually drags out bugs and highlights what needs to be done in order to make it to Rakudo Star.
sundar masak: you mean trying writing Perl 6 code and playing with it? 22:34
masak yes.
lue I agree with masak. I can't tell you how many weird bugs I've found trying out Perl6 code to do something completely random. 22:35
masak well, you're welcome to write something completely non-random too :)
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sundar Ok, that sounds good.. I'd learn Perl 6 better too this way. Thanks, getting to it right away. :) 22:36
masak \o/
sundar: when you do hit a snag -- and you will, if you keep at it long enough -- feel free to highlight it by executing a golfed line of code on p6eval here on the channel. 22:37
rakudo: $_ = "OH NOES"; s/NOES/HAI/; say $_ 22:38
p6eval rakudo 43f865: OUTPUT«OH NOES␤»
lue I seriously think P6 is the most fun I've ever had learning a language. It may not be as quick (lack of documentation), but you'll have much more fun learning :)
masak: THAT'S how you use s///! 22:39
sundar masak: sure.. I've been watching "masak submits rakudobug"s for some time now. Ll be good to see one prompted by me too.. :)
lue
.oO(I got very giddy when I caused a spec bloodbath a while ago (file test operators))
masak sundar: :) 22:40
22:41 zapad_ left
lue still wonders about this: $_ means "it", @_ means "them", %_ means... 22:41
masak 'themz' :) 22:44
sundar lue: some languages have a words for 'those two'... though that would still be a Pair, not a hash..
lue It bugs me that we have english pronouns for a bunch of things (*,$_, and so on) EXCEPT for %_ 22:47
I'm going to be asking until Perl7 comes out, when %_ is abolished :)
lue is looking at en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_personal_pronouns for guidance 22:49
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lue o hai snarkyboojum o/ 22:51
(right now I'm trying to find an english language equivalent to %_)
snarkyboojum hi lue 22:52
lue is currently resorting to old english, before moving on to other languages 22:54
pugssvn r30361 | lwall++ | [STD] clean up some unneeded locmesses 22:57
r30361 | distinguish "Parse failed" from "Check failed"
lue TimToady++ for clarity :) 22:59
.oO(is there a language out there that defines a pronoun referring to a hash-like structure?)
 23:02
afk (in the meantime considering inventing a new english word if nothing else) 23:03
23:03 masak left 23:08 orafu left, orafu joined
snarkyboojum re inconsistency in method naming in Temporal.pm, 'multi method day-of-week' vs 'multi method from_epoch' for example? 23:11
ruoso damian++ "that's a very sad reflection on our profession." 23:20
heh 23:21
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snarkyboojum not an argument though :) 23:42
arnsholt ruoso: Where's that from? 23:54
TimToady std: my $x; "$x\[nonesuch\]";
p6eval std 30361: OUTPUT«ok 00:01 109m␤»
diakopter arnsholt: p6l 23:55
arnsholt Ah, right. I should probably subscribe to p6l

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