»ö« Welcome to Perl 6! | perl6.org/ | evalbot usage: 'perl6: say 3;' or rakudo:, niecza:, std:, or /msg camelia perl6: ... | irclog: irc.perl6.org | UTF-8 is our friend!
Set by sorear on 25 June 2013.
dalek ecs: 9b8da72 | (Stéphane Payrard)++ | S03-operators.pod:
corrected meaning of .^ operator
 00:01
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BenGoldberg m: &dd.WHAT.say 01:06
camelia rakudo-moar e63078: OUTPUT«(Sub)␤»
BenGoldberg m: dd(2..3); 01:07
camelia rakudo-moar e63078: OUTPUT«No such method 'name' for invocant of type 'Range'␤ in sub dd at src/gen/m-CORE.setting:2561␤ in block <unit> at /tmp/QNp14g1IjH:1␤␤»
BenGoldberg m: my $r = 2..3; dd($r); 01:08
camelia rakudo-moar e63078: OUTPUT«$r = 2..3␤»
BenGoldberg m: dd my $r = 2..3;;
camelia rakudo-moar e63078: OUTPUT«$r = 2..3␤»
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timotimo dd should probably check if there's a .VAR available 01:36
as in $the_thing.VAR ~~ Scalar or something
japhb Was someone trying to reach me? This window had a highlight, but I don't see anything in my scrollback (which doesn't go back very far in clock time, you guys must have been chatty the last couple days. :-) 01:38
timotimo hey japhb 01:42
have you seen my latest benchmarks?
japhb timotimo: Last I saw were from early this week. 01:43
timotimo t.h8.lv/p6bench/2014-09-20-history_rakudo_2.html - check out the spikes upwards for push-related benchmarks
FROGGS has been notified about the problems with the json parse benchmarks and was investigating and improving that somewhat earlier today
japhb timotimo: Woah, nice! 01:45
And I was just about to ask about the JSON parsing. :-)
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timotimo yup 01:45
we're going to fix it
the new code ought to be faster than the old one was when we've worked out the kinks
and then we're almost "faster than the last release across the board" as well as "faster than the second to last release across the board" 01:46
at leöast i think so
AFK again
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japhb Which would be really nice on both points 01:48
masak morning, #perl6 02:00
japhb o/ 02:01
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masak is intrigued by rt.perl.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=122810 02:31
jnthn morning, #perl6 02:33
masak: That one looks pretty odd... 02:35
ingy morning jnthn
masak before I had read through all of it, I had already done the experiment and golfed it down to the same linecount (5655) as in the bug report. 02:37
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jnthn Curiously, 03:31
type src\gen\m-CORE.setting | perl6-m -e "(bag slurp.words)"
Too many arguments in flattening array.
sub bag(*@args --> Bag) { Bag.new(|@args) } 03:32
eek, flattening a slurpy means grabbing all its elems in flattening context... 03:33
Which will be slow and hit limits.
And method new already slurps so there's no point to the flattening there at all 03:34
jnthn finally manages to also download the gutenburg book from the ticket 03:39
yay, with my changes it works, and gives results in 6.4s 03:42
jnthn profiles it out of curiosity
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japhb How is it looking? 03:49
jnthn Most time is spent constructing the bag, I think, but that involves doing the words bit too 03:50
An obvious optimization in sort gets us to 5.8s. 03:54
The GC is quite fun to watch in the profile 04:00
While we're building the bag some objects are being retained
Once we reach the later part of the program where it's just sorting, we're promoting nothing. 04:01
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jnthn Anyway, seems I have a bug fix and two performance improvements. I'll take that. Spectest time. :) 04:02
Building the profiler is one of the best time investments I've made of late... :) 04:03
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dalek kudo/nom: a8267b4 | jonathan++ | src/core/List.pm:
Bring a comment in line with reality.
 04:18
kudo/nom: 0d4bc70 | jonathan++ | src/core/set_operators.pm:
Don't fatten args to Bag.new/Mix.new.

They already slurp, so there's no reason to do this. In fact, there's a very good reason not to: flattening the args may produce a huge number of them, which is painful performance wise and hits limits on JVM and on MoarVM too. This appears to fix the issue reported in RT#122810.
synopsebot Link: rt.perl.org/rt3//Public/Bug/Displa...?id=122810
kudo/nom: 39a299f | jonathan++ | src/core/List.pm:
Optimize sorting block.

Since we know we can never be < 0 because we're sorting an indices array, we can go directly to .at_pos.		 04:19
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japhb Yes, time spent on the profiler is pretty much near the top of your good ideas this summer. ;-) 05:24
(And that's saying something!)
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nwc10 T-0:50 05:51
www.spacex.com/webcast/
as in 20 seconds now 05:52
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masak twitter.com/SpaceX/status/513572559611105280 is truly gorgeous. 06:54
jnthn Wow! 06:58
long exposure ftw 06:59
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FROGGS_ timotimo: no, was sleepy... will do that today 07:25
dalek ar: f21eb1c | (Tobias Leich)++ | tools/star/release-guide.pod:
volunteer for this month's release
 07:26
jnthn FROGGS_++ 07:33
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FROGGS_ jnthn: there is an nqp::coerce_sI, but why isnt there an nqp::coerce_si? 08:36
I'd like to use that in .MATCH 08:37
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dalek kudo/optimatch: 215672b | (Tobias Leich)++ | src/core/Cursor.pm:
first (untested) optimized version of .MATCH
 09:30
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FROGGS_ why do we have native nums in that bloody $curcap? 09:43
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nine ggoebel11111113: I'm not sure if that would be really useful. Right now you couldn't use any Perl 6 modules in your script if Inline::Perl5 were executing it right from the start. Since you need to have Perl 5 installed to use Inline::Perl5, it would be more useful to specify perl 5 in your shebang line. 10:26
ggoebel11111113: But now that I think of it: accessing Perl 6 modules from Perl 5 code running in Inline::Perl5 would be rather simple. I'd just have to create a virtual "Perl6" module with useful methods like "use" and "invoke" same as I do it with Perl6::Object already. 10:28
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dalek kudo/nom: 9aa8f6e | (Elizabeth Mattijsen)++ | src/core/IO/Spec/Win32.pm:
Fix another case of double slurpy

There shouldn't be any more in the core now.		 10:34
carlin ... It's alive! 10:44
github.com/carbin/stomp
lizmat carlin++ 10:45
m: say 0 ...^ *>5 # why is this warning ? 10:46
camelia rakudo-moar 39a299: OUTPUT«Code object coerced to string (please use .gist or .perl to do that) in block <unit> at /tmp/0Jy5yxhEiv:1␤␤0 1 2 3 4 5␤»
lizmat r: say 0 ...^ *>5 10:47
camelia rakudo-{parrot,moar} 39a299: OUTPUT«Code object coerced to string (please use .gist or .perl to do that) in block <unit> at /tmp/tmpfile:1␤␤0 1 2 3 4 5␤»
..rakudo-jvm 39a299: OUTPUT«Can't call method "syswrite" on an undefined value at /home/p6eval/jvm-rakudo/eval-client.pl line 32.␤»
lizmat at least it's consistent
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jaffa4 has anyone tried to program together? 11:05
using some kind of tool?
to fix bugs in Perl6 compiler?
lizmat has only pair-programmed a few times IRL 11:06
jaffa4 irl? 11:08
lizmat In Real Life
jaffa4 do you have other lives as well?
lizmat some might argue I also have a life online 11:09
grondilu thinks that's the point of the expression "IRL"
jaffa4 virtula life
dalek kudo/nom: e71a9c1 | (Elizabeth Mattijsen)++ | src/core/Variable.pm:
Give a better error for 'my int $a is default(*)'
 11:16
lizmat TimToady: S02:1409 (Each) feels like a fossil 11:20
synopsebot Link: perlcabal.org/syn/S02.html#line_1409
lizmat at least I see no other mention of it apart from there, and no sign of any implementation work 11:21
shall I eradicate Each ?
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lizmat or, now that we have more async stuff in the core, is it time to start looking at Each / Junction orderedness / unorderedness 11:24
as atm I think Junctions are actually behaving as Each's ?
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vendethiel carlin: github.com/carbin/stomp/blob/maste...CLI.pm6#L9 11:46
why <>?
lizmat because he doesn't like quotes ? 11:47
carlin I prefer <> over ""
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nine Anyone have any idea about the fasibility of ggoebel11111113's idea to run scripts through Inline::Perl5 automatically if there's no indication that a script is written in Perl 6? S01 seems to require this form of support. 11:49
pmurias it's only supposed to happen when perl6 is invoked as perl 11:51
yoleaux 20 Sep 2014 20:28Z <raiph> pmurias: Does it make sense to remove github.com/perl6/simple-tests ?
nine pmurias: so I've read. Which would be fine with me. If invoked as perl and the file ending is not .pl6 or .pm6 and there's no 'use v6;' or equivalent automatically load Inline::Perl5 and use it to run the script. 11:55
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pmurias but currently very few/nobody runs perl6 as perl 11:56
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nine pmurias: no wonder. It doesn't have any advantages and breaks Perl 5 scripts. But if we transparently support Perl 5 as required by S01 and lower startup time to comparable levels, this will be an important step to reunite the Perls and give up the sister languages nonsense :) 11:59
vendethiel github.com/carbin/stomp/blob/maste...I.pm6#L218 could use MAIN :p 12:00
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pmurias the only way to give up the sister languages nonsense it to improve the implementation and ecosystem of Perl 6 to a point where it surpasses Perl 5 12:05
carlin vendethiel: could too, will have to look at that 12:06
vendethiel pmurias: well, got to give it some time
lizmat pmurias++ :-)
dalek ecs: 3ceec03 | (Elizabeth Mattijsen)++ | S02-bits.pod:
Remove a bit of BagHash fossil

Bags return pairs in list context now, as mentioned above.		 12:08
nine pmurias: I disagree. as soon as we become downward compatible again, we can start calling Perl 6 the newer version of Perl and Perl 5 the legacy version of Perl. Newer versions of anything don't necessarily have to be better at everything. Though of course it helps adoption a lot if they are.
jnthn FROGGS_: I think writing prefix:<~> in NQP actually gets you the MoarVM coerce_si equivalent 12:10
dalek ecs: 7101879 | (Elizabeth Mattijsen)++ | S02-bits.pod:
Elaborate a bit about MixHash
 12:12
jnthn FROGGS_: As in, ~$foo
lizmat TimToady: seems like PairSeq is a bit of a fossil
unless you want to call the .list of Hash/Bag/Mix that ? 12:13
jnthn lizmat: iirc, the each thingy is some kind of junction-like construct that retains ordering
lizmat which is how Junction atm is implemented, no?
jnthn It's certainly not promised to be that way, though. 12:14
lizmat realize that, maybe we should randomize it before 6.0 to make sure we don't get more dependent code on that out there
jnthn Worth considering 12:15
perlcabal.org/syn/S09.html#Each calls out each as conjectural 12:17
vendethiel :o. does that work?? 12:19
m: (^10).each.say; #prolly not
camelia rakudo-moar 9aa8f6: OUTPUT«No such method 'each' for invocant of type 'Range'␤ in block <unit> at /tmp/RgMLbzixye:1␤␤»
lizmat hmmm... so is that LHF ? 12:20
jnthn lizmat: I don't see it being hard, though it's probably a bit under-spec'd 12:21
FROGGS_ jnthn: I want to get an int from a str
jnthn Doesn't say what happens in boolen context for example
FROGGS_: oh...
lizmat agree about the underspeccing, hence my question to TimToady
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jnthn I'd be surprised if a more concrete spec for it yielded a heck of a lot more work though 12:22
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lizmat well, unless perceived clarity != real clarity, so rather see the spec clarified first :-) 12:23
jnthn FROGGS_: Ah...
m: nqp::bind(my $int $i, '42'); say $i; 12:24
camelia rakudo-moar 9aa8f6: OUTPUT«===SORRY!=== Error while compiling /tmp/elFLTw0JSf␤Unable to parse expression in argument list; couldn't find final ')' ␤at /tmp/elFLTw0JSf:1␤------> nqp::bind(my $int ⏏$i, '42'); say $i;␤ expecting any of:…»
jnthn oops
m: nqp::bind(my int $i, '42'); say $i;
camelia rakudo-moar 9aa8f6: OUTPUT«This type cannot unbox to a native integer␤ in block <unit> at /tmp/aCwCpCYDT_:1␤␤»
jnthn m: nqp::bind(my int $i, nqp::unbox_s('42')); say $i;
camelia rakudo-moar 9aa8f6: OUTPUT«42␤»
jnthn FROGGS_: That's a possible way 12:25
Agree it ain't entirely convenient
FROGGS[mobile] jnthn: don't has to be :o) 12:26
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ggoebel11111113 nine: nice to hear that the run as perl5 by default migration aspect of perlcabal.org/syn/S01.html may be within reach. Seems like a pretty significant deliverable. Is this still a prerequisite for 6.0? 12:30
lizmat ggoebel11111113: good question, one I hope will be answered after APW 12:31
nine lizmat: looking forward to that discussion :)
pmurias nine: a big reason why we call Perl 6 a sister language instead of the newer version is that calling Perl 5 a legacy version hurts it's perception a lot
nine pmurias: currently, yes, absolutely. I think the sister languages thing was and probably still is necessary and good. But in the long term I'd really like to but it away and bring the Perl's together. It's a main motivation for writing Inline::Perl5 for me. 12:33
s/but/put/
gtodd and perl5 keeps borrowing and porting ideas back
lizmat well, some p5pers are leaving P5
the latest rurban: from a mail earlier today: "So I'll stop watching this mess now, goodbye 5.22 and p5p." 12:34
vendethiel what's going on in p5p? 12:35
pmurias rurban has been conflicted with p5p for a long time
lizmat yes, but it now seems he has given up on P5
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pmurias he seems to be conflicted with MoarVM and diakopter 12:35
lizmat or at least p5p
some at p5p will say "good riddance" 12:36
I would not be one of them 12:37
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woolfy rurban++ 12:40
masak I think any animosity across the p5-p6 line is senseless and in the end a kind of own goal. 12:41
given that bubble-outsiders can barely tell p5ers and p6ers apart, having infighting across that line is only going to look like... structural weakness in the ranks. 12:42
ggoebel anything which makes the line thinner++ 12:43
and easier to cross in order to get work, play, and fun done...
masak what the p5 people should focus on is to be accepting of and curious about p6 while preserving their own cultural heritage.
lizmat going back to ggoebel's question wrt to starting in P5 land
I don't really see that happening unless we have "use v5" 12:44
or an Inline::Perl6 in P5 land
masak what the p6 people should focus on is to be awesome and bring more of the future into equal distribution... while trying not to say "we're the next version" until it already doesn't need saying. 12:45
gtodd I want p5 to adopt more bits of p6 ... like p6 formats :-)
masak gtodd: there's a CPAN module.
gtodd yup and it works great ... should be the default ;-) 12:46
there's rperl and p2 etc
masak and moe. 12:48
I don't have a sense of which state moe got left in.
ggoebel looks like perl4 is still hanging on... lintian.debian.org/tags/script-use...t-dep.html
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gtodd isn't rurban involved with p2 and rperl? 12:49
lizmat p2 I know for sure, rperl I'm not so sure about 12:50
ggoebel IMHO perl6 is more likely to get installed (or linked) to /usr/bin/perl ...if s01 is implemented
lizmat what is a PairSet ? seems like a fossil in S02:1691 12:52
synopsebot Link: perlcabal.org/syn/S02.html#line_1691
jnthn lizmat: Never heard of it :)
lizmat "Likewise, C<%x> may be bound to any object that does the C<Associative> role, such as C<Pair>, C<PairSet>, C<Set>, C<Bag>, C<Mix>, or C<Capture>. 12:53
jnthn Yeah. Looks like fossil
Just toss it or pick a more apporpriate example type
Also
uh, no also :) 12:54
dalek ecs: f9ac5c9 | (Elizabeth Mattijsen)++ | S02-bits.pod:
Remove reference to PairSet, considered a fossil
lizmat " $^foo self-declared formal positional parameter" 12:58
the ^ twigil ???
FROGGS[mobile] yes 13:00
lizmat ah, of courtse 13:01
course
duh :-)
jnthn That one's even long implemented... :) 13:02
lizmat the phrasing is what too me off guard
*took
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timotimo o/ 13:07
lizmat timotimo o/ 13:09
m: 'my $s = anon sub tract($n) { say $n; tract($n-1) if $n }; $s(5)
m: my $s = anon sub tract($n) { say $n; tract($n-1) if $n }; $s(5)
camelia rakudo-moar e71a9c: OUTPUT«(timeout)»
rakudo-moar e71a9c: OUTPUT«===SORRY!=== Error while compiling /tmp/Wx9jTYZ8p7␤Undeclared routine:␤ tract used at line 1␤␤»
lizmat this should work according to S02:2035 13:10
synopsebot Link: perlcabal.org/syn/S02.html#line_2035
jnthn aye, nyi
lizmat is that a NYI or a rakudobug of anon sub
jnthn It was added to spec some time after anon subs worked in Rakudo, sa I remember.
LHFish 13:11
lizmat :-)
dalek ecs: 886b1ec | (Elizabeth Mattijsen)++ | S02-bits.pod:
Make examples more cut/pastable
 13:13
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dalek p-js: 46fc11b | (Pawel Murias)++ | src/vm/js/ (4 files):
Implement nqp::{open,tellfh,readlinefh,readallfh,printfh,closefh}
 13:15
p-js: a7ad086 | (Pawel Murias)++ | src/vm/js/QAST/Compiler.nqp:
Use a :sideffects modifier instead of add_sideffect_op.
p-js: cf8a087 | (Pawel Murias)++ | src/vm/js/QAST/Compiler.nqp:
Extra blank line.
p-js: dc54025 | (Pawel Murias)++ | src/vm/js/QAST/Compiler.nqp:
Refactor for the DRY principle.

Omit the code generation callback for ops that just call a nqp.op.$opname
pmurias masak: I think moe was abandoned 13:16
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masak lizmat: looks like PairSet was supposed to go away as of cf42c47703cc126f6cad2c82d5d923e8ab00a85e 13:17
dalek ecs: 281d8f1 | (Elizabeth Mattijsen)++ | S02-bits.pod:
Mention handling circular references in .perl
 13:18
masak lizmat: also, looking at the commits involved, I'm not at all sure it wasn't all a misspelling of "PairSeq"...
lizmat ah, hhmmm....
could be, but PairSeq also seems a fossil 13:19
masak yeah.
jnthn There once was a type called Seq, which is no more.
masak I currently lean towards "not a typo, but was renamed one to the other"
m: say Seq
camelia rakudo-moar e71a9c: OUTPUT«(Seq)␤»
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masak Seq lives on as an empty class in the setting ;) 13:19
masak .oO( ghost type )
lizmat and quite a few menitions in the spec
*mentions 13:20
masak I don't particularly like the meme "kill it with fire"... but at this point, I don't think we need the Seq type.
pmurias masak: looking at the moe tests it looks like a Perl5/Perl6 hybrid or some very early version of Perl 6
masak pmurias: aye.
pmurias: I get the feeling stevan realized that his project basically ended up borrowing a lot of ideas from Perl 6. 13:21
dalek ecs: 66e6fe9 | (Elizabeth Mattijsen)++ | S03-operators.pod:
Assume PairSeq was typo for fossil PairSet
 13:23
lizmat #dammitstevan :-)
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masak something like "a project that wants to be a linear combination of p5 and p6, but looks to p6 for sanity tiebreakers... ends up converging on p6" 13:24
or at least it becomes p6 without the risky/interesting parts, like roles and grammars. 13:25
jnthn m: say Seq.^mro # morbid curiosity...
camelia rakudo-moar e71a9c: OUTPUT«(Seq) (List) (Iterable) (Cool) (Any) (Mu)␤»
dalek p-js: ffc7791 | (Pawel Murias)++ | tools/build/ (2 files):
Update the Makefile, so that it reinstalls the runtime when the new runtime files change.
jnthn Yeah, I think Seq's continued existence in Rakudo is fossil 13:26
teodozjan hi, is there any fast way to list loaded classes/modules? I tried to use @*INC but I didn't find any usable method on CompUnitRepo
nine lizmat: why would Inline::Perl6 be a prerequisite?
lizmat jnthn: I will remove Seq from setting first in one revertable commit, and then remove from spec later 13:27
jnthn lizmat: wfm
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masak jnthn: 13:29
m: use MONKEY_TYPING; augment class Mu { multi method gist(Mu:U $type:) is default { "({$type ~~ Any ?? $type.^name !! "M" ~ "o" x 100})" } }; say Seq.^mro
camelia rakudo-moar e71a9c: OUTPUT«(Seq) (List) (Iterable) (Cool) (Any) (Moooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo)␤»
tadzik :D
timotimo m) 13:31
lizmat
.oO( in dutch, the pronunciation of "Mu" very much sounds like the word for "tired" )
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dalek kudo/nom: 3eae3c3 | (Elizabeth Mattijsen)++ | src/core/ (3 files):
Eradicate Seq with fire

Oddly enough, src/core/Seq.pm was not included in an backend setting.		 13:36
jnthn m: Mu.^set_name('M' ~ 'o' x 100); say Mu # anything you can do, I can do meta :P 13:37
camelia rakudo-moar e71a9c: OUTPUT«(Moooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo)␤»
dalek ast: c37d1b7 | (Elizabeth Mattijsen)++ | S02-types/WHICH.t:
Eradicate Seq with fire
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lizmat m: say (item <a b c>, <d e f>).WHAT # would have expected Parcel here, not Array 13:42
camelia rakudo-moar e71a9c: OUTPUT«(Array)␤»
jnthn m: say (item <a b c>, <d e f>).perl 13:44
camelia rakudo-moar e71a9c: OUTPUT«["a", "b", "c", "d", "e", "f"]␤»
lizmat multi sub item(*@a) { my $ = @a } 13:45
masak ooh, .^set_name 13:46
lizmat I would have expected a parcel of 2 parcels there
jnthn lizmat: Itemized, presumably?
lizmat: uh, the outer parcel I mean...
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lizmat yes 13:46
jnthn m: say (<a b c>, <d e f>).WHAT
camelia rakudo-moar e71a9c: OUTPUT«(Parcel)␤»
jnthn opos 13:47
vendethiel the call binds loosely :)
jnthn m: say (<a b c>, <d e f>).item.WHAT
camelia rakudo-moar e71a9c: OUTPUT«(Parcel)␤»
jnthn m: say (<a b c>, <d e f>).item.perl
camelia rakudo-moar e71a9c: OUTPUT«$(("a", "b", "c"), ("d", "e", "f"))␤»
jnthn lizmat: Like this I guess... :)
lizmat yup
jnthn I think that makes sense
Can be done with the vmargarray trick
Same one infix:<,> uses I guess 13:48
lizmat vmargarray ??
missp?
jnthn my sub infix:<,>(|) is pure { nqp::p6parcel(nqp::p6argvmarray(), nqp::null());
}
bah, linebreak got lost. 13:49
vendethiel m: .say for @((<a b c>, <d e f>).item)
camelia rakudo-moar e71a9c: OUTPUT«a␤b␤c␤d␤e␤f␤»
jnthn We may want to define
multi item(\x) { x.item }
multi item(|) { my $ = nqp::p6parcel(nqp::p6argvmarray(), nqp::null()); } 13:50
I think those two between them would give sane results. Worth a try, at lesat...
lizmat trying
jnthn lizmat++
lizmat x.item doesn't make sense, as Mu.item just returns x 13:52
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jnthn lizmat: That's a totally fine answer in general. 14:00
lizmat: item 42 should just be 42
lizmat: Things that don't behave like items should already be overriding item to do the righ tthing. 14:01
*right
m: say (1,2,3).item.perl # as Parcel does, for example
camelia rakudo-moar e71a9c: OUTPUT«$(1, 2, 3)␤»
lizmat hmmm... we seem to have a spectest testing that (item $a, $b) makes an Array 14:02
so I can assume the spectest is faulty
jnthn Yeah, that feels a bit off to me. 14:03
lizmat that was the only spectest issue
jnthn OK, in that case I think the change is kosher 14:04
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gtodd jnthn: lizmat: it appears that rakudo/rakudo/commit/a8267b418c does fix RT#122810 (possibly my first bug report) but I'm trying to grok the commit message: "Don't fatten args to Bag.new/Mix.new. They already slurp, so there's no reason to do this ..." 14:14
synopsebot Link: rt.perl.org/rt3//Public/Bug/Displa...?id=122810
lizmat s/fatten/flatten 14:15
jnthn omg, did I really type fatten?
lizmat yesh
gtodd fatten should be flatten ;-) but ... hehe so they were getting flattened twice in some sort of loop
jnthn *lol*
fail
gtodd jnthn: sometimes a typo is just a typo ... sometimes it's a freudian slip :-D 14:16
jnthn gtodd: the issue is sub foo(*@a) { Foo.new(|@a) }, then call foo(@a_really_huge_array) will go off and try to make a callsite that is array-sized.
Which is a hugely inefficient thing to do once the array gets large. 14:17
gtodd oh ... for no reason ? anyway yeah it fixes it and makes (or something else does) it faster
jnthn Reading being that the slurpy flattens.
*Reason
gtodd excellent ... my bug report worked!! :-D
jnthn I should probably give up on typing today. :)
Glad it's faster. It ran in < 6s on my laptop here, after I did the .sort opt too... 14:18
gtodd heh I have no idea what my old rt btcard account even was but so far with my new ID bugs reported resulting in a fix I'm batting 100 heheh
jnthn Talking of bug reports, RT#122756 is a fun one... 14:19
synopsebot Link: rt.perl.org/rt3//Public/Bug/Displa...?id=122756
jnthn The analysis suggested by the subject of the ticket is actually wrong
gtodd oopsie I changed the command perl6 -e '(bag slurp.words.grep( *.chars > 5 )).pairs.sort( *.value).reverse[^10].say'; probably the reason
why it was faster
jnthn m: role Foo {}; say .WHAT for pi but Foo, [pi] but Foo;
camelia rakudo-moar e71a9c: OUTPUT«(Num+{Foo})␤(Num)␤»
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dalek kudo/nom: aac70ae | (Elizabeth Mattijsen)++ | src/core/ (2 files):
item() returns Parcel, like .item already did

This part of the Seq cleanup		 14:20
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jnthn The reason it's Num the second time around is because the but does .clone() on what it receives 14:20
And so we lose the itemization and flatten the but'ed thing... 14:21
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dalek ast: 0bc42d6 | (Elizabeth Mattijsen)++ | S03-operators/context.t:
item() returns a Parcel, not an Array
 14:21
jnthn It's not entirely clear to me where to fix this. We typically have a policy that .method busts its way through item distinctions. 14:22
Real hinges on
m: say [1,2,3].clone().perl
camelia rakudo-moar e71a9c: OUTPUT«Array.new(1, 2, 3)␤»
jnthn Is that correct, or should it be [1, 2, 3]?
TimToady: ^^ could use your brane for a moment, if you can spare it :) 14:23
gtodd RT question ... as the reporter can/should I mark the bug closed or do you have workflow /method for that?
jnthn gtodd: Typically we like to have tests for things
gtodd: Can makr it testneeded
gtodd hmm ok and then somehow find a test that confirms RT#122810 is fixed and then close ... ok 14:24
synopsebot Link: rt.perl.org/rt3//Public/Bug/Displa...?id=122810
jaffa4 I submitted a bug report, any idea when it is going to be fixed? 14:25
gtodd so should I put "testneeded" in the subject line and change status to "fixed"?
ermm "resolved" ? 14:26
jaffa4 its number is #122815
synopsebot Link: rt.perl.org/rt3//Public/Bug/Displa...?id=122815
nine thinks that as long as a bug doesn't have a test it cannot be resolved because nothing makes sure it _stays_ resolved.
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gtodd yeah ... ok I will just add a comment 14:28
and leave it as "open"
jnthn jaffa4: I actually have that one open in a browser tab. The answer, I *think*, is that you need to put the "is repr" thing on the pre-decl. But we really should catch the use of it on the actual declaration and point out that it isn't going to work, instead of just ignoring it. 14:29
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jnthn jaffa4: So, likely conclusion is that the program is incorrect as it stands, but Rakudo was wrong to not point this out. 14:31
jaffa4 so it also needs to be a cpointer, jnthn
jnthn I didn't have time to try it, but
TimToady maybe .cone is really .CLONE
*l
jnthn class TopWindow is repr('CPointer') {...} should do it 14:32
jaffa4 what is repr, by the way?
jnthn repr = representation = how this type should be represented in memory
It needs to go on the first mention, since that's where we create the type object, and we need to create that so we've something to install so mentions of TopWindow will be recognized. 14:33
Note it's only needed in the pre-decl, so you don't need to have it in both places. 14:34
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jnthn Let me know if that doesn't work out, but I'm pretty sure that's what is happening. 14:35
TimToady: English spoken loudly enough will be understood anywhere? ;)
TimToady SI!
jnthn TimToady: I don't think it needs to be macro-ish, in so far as a method can happily say method clone(\self-with-cont:) { } to recover what was actually the invocant. 14:36
jaffa4 I get Unable to parse class definition -> ------> class Ctrl ⏏s repr('CPointer') {...} 14:37
jnthn Did you actually type is, or s?
m: class Ctrl is repr('CPointer') { ... }; class Ctrl { } 14:38
camelia ( no output )
jnthn m: class Ctrl is repr('CPointer') { ... }; class Ctrl { }; say Ctrl.REPR
jaffa4 yes, that is typo.. so not an error
camelia rakudo-moar 3eae3c: OUTPUT«CPointer␤»
jnthn TimToady: Mostly I'm just wondering if we want to make clone not lose itemization, or if it's but that wants to change... 14:39
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TimToady isn't awake enough to have an opinion on that 14:39
jnthn Or if there's a third thing I haven't thought of. I'm pretty sure the behavior reported in the RT is wrong though.
timotimo m: class Test is repr('CPointer') { }; say Test.REPR.WHAT.perl
camelia rakudo-moar 3eae3c: OUTPUT«Cannot find method 'perl': no method cache and no .^find_method␤ in block <unit> at /tmp/Iobu26_UTg:1␤␤»
jnthn np :)
14:39 Ven left
timotimo m: class Test is repr('CPointer') { }; say Test.REPR.WHAT 14:39
camelia rakudo-moar 3eae3c: OUTPUT«(Str)␤»
timotimo we don't really have objects to represent representations 14:40
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jnthn No 14:40
They're just string identifiers
Things have to bottom out somewhere... :)
timotimo aye 14:41
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timotimo at least we can do stuff like class Foo is repr(Otherclass.REPR) like this :) 14:41
jnthn Well, and once the S12 package decl stuff is in place we can also consider cpointer Foo { } as the declaration too :) 14:42
EXPORTHOW::DECLARE iirc :)
timotimo ah, sure
jaffa4 jhthn: your suggestion seems to work
jnthn jaffa4: OK, good. I'll keep the ticket handy, 'cus I want to put something in the compiler so others don't fall into the same trap and have things silently not work... 14:44
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jnthn Time for some rest...'night 15:11
timotimo gnite jnthn 15:12
lizmat good night. jnthn 15:16
cycling& 15:18
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vendethiel
.oO( we need a haskell backend because we have liquid types )
 15:45
15:49 leont joined
vendethiel (actually, refinement types) 15:53
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dalek kudo/optimatch: f56eb0f | (Tobias Leich)++ | src/core/Cursor.pm:
use nqp::bind to coerce str to int, jnthn++
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TimToady liztormato: Each is not redunant with Junction, since junctions do something in a boolean context, while each does something in list context 17:26
*redundant needs redundant d's 17:27
liztormato ;-)
That was not really clear to me from the spec 17:28
TimToady btw, we'll be commuting to NJ over the next ten days, so connectivity is likely to be spotty out in the wilds
17:28 virtualsue left
TimToady well, it's marked conjectural till someone implements it : 17:28
:)
liztormato But maybe it's conjecturally specced too vaguely to get implemented 17:29
Commuting to NJ by car I assume? 17:30
TimToady yup 17:31
note to would-be burglars, there are still people at home too. :)
liztormato Wow. It's on my bucket list to do a cross country ride like that 17:32
TimToady well, it's my bucket list to hit all the states I've never been in, and that I'll do this trip, if all goes according to plan
liztormato Cool! 17:33
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TimToady "LHFish" <-- Low Hanging Fish? 17:40
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TimToady Parcel has basically taken over the tuple semantics from Seq, so we don't need Seq anymore 17:43
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vendethiel NJ? 17:43
liztormato Ishisms everywhere!
New Jersey
TimToady my son Aron has relocated to IAS at Princeton, so we're taken them their car, which they left behind in SoCal 17:44
liztormato TimToady: I will fight Seq with fire in the spec
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TimToady afk & 17:46
vendethiel .tell masak I'm gonna make macros to join our `where`s and that: goto.ucsd.edu/~rjhala/liquid/haskel...s-101.lhs/ 17:48
yoleaux vendethiel: I'll pass your message to masak.
vendethiel :P
dalek p-js: 4bb73ad | (Pawel Murias)++ | src/vm/js/ (2 files):
Implement nqp ops: symlink, link, unlink, setencoding.

Make nqp::stat with an EXISTS flag return true when it encounters a symlink that points to a missing file.		 17:51
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liztormato Continuing cycling& 17:54
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pmurias is it possible that an say is executed but it doesn't get to print anything because of buffering and an exception 18:39
on oldish MoarVM
dalek rl6-bench: b980a1d | (Geoffrey Broadwell)++ | EXPECTED:
Mark EXPECTED out of date and call for volunteers to update it
 18:42
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lizmat pmurias: could be... jnthn or brrt or timotimo might have a better idea 19:01
japhb Something is still goofy with rc-forest-fire on current nqp-m and perl6-m. If I do a nice large field, like `perl6-m perl6/rc-forest-fire 79 40 100`, it's slow enough to see that sometimes the fire doesn't propagate to all the places it should. And under nqp-m, it doesn't take long for the screen to get jumpy and then corrupted.
TimToady, jnthn: ^^^
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timotimo pmurias: yes, indeed 19:07
pmurias: pipe it into a file or strace it 19:08
that'll force it to sync it out
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vendethiel colinm.org/language_checklist.html 19:12
lizmat m: say Bag(3,8,[2,(9,3)],8) >>->> 1 # according to S03:4415, this should be Bag(2,7,[1,(8,2)],7) 19:13
synopsebot Link: perlcabal.org/syn/S03.html#line_4415
camelia rakudo-moar aac70a: OUTPUT«"2 9 3" => 0, "3" => 0, "8" => 1␤»
lizmat I feel the spec is wrong, TimToady do you agree ? 19:14
woolfy Just saw somebody post this on the Perl Developers page on Facebook: "If programming languages were vehicles": s3.crashworks.org.s3-website-us-eas...-vehicles/ 19:15
lizmat specifically, because Bags take items: one could wonder if it shouldn't fail on trying to [2,(9,3)]
- 1
woolfy I could not resist (I tried for some seconds) to post this: "The hippy Volkswagen Van is of course just for the Perl 5 folks. The Perl 6 folks are represented by a Prius Plug-In." www.toyota.nl/s3/tme-toyotaone-prod...-44038.jpg
lizmat
.oO( especially now we can plug in Perl 5 with Inline::Perl5 :-)
 19:17
taking this analogy further: the batteries are still small, but they will grow over time and dependence on old fuels like gasoline will be a thing of the past 19:18
raiph .tell hoelzro I've added a comment following up on your bug reports at questhub.io/realm/perl/quest/52d6b...2b1a00007e 19:20
yoleaux 20 Sep 2014 22:33Z <grondilu> raiph: I'm not sure what this is. It's not mine anyway. Still, I notice this uses Parrot-specific code. If it can be shown that the pure P6 version is as least as good, it should prevail, shouldn't it?
raiph: I'll pass your message to hoelzro.
grondilu How exactly is Inline::Perl5 different from v5? Is it just syntax or is it completely different?
raiph grondilu: completely different 19:21
grondilu ok
raiph Inline::Perl5 calls out to an embedded version of regular perl
grondilu ok but that's how it works. Could Inline::Perl5 be used to implement v5? 19:22
lizmat no
Inline::Perl5 will always depend on a Perl5 lib existing 19:23
raiph v5 is a brand new compiler, written in P6
lizmat v5 will only need the grammar and associated actions in Perl 6 land
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grondilu sure but wouldn't an implementation of v5 using the perlapi be a valid implementation? 19:29
grondilu assumes Inline::Perl5 does use the perl5api
lizmat grondilu: use v5 has nothing to do with perl5 the executor 19:30
TimToady [1,(8,2)] flattens inside
ifim hi guys, I was wondering what place is the most up-to-date reference to learn Perl 6 from ground up
grondilu ifim: S02 19:31
github.com/perl6/specs
ifim grondilu: thanks! 19:32
TimToady --> Carson City, hopefully &
lizmat
.oO( Bonanza! )
pmurias grondilu: Inline::Perl5 could be used to implement the 'use v5;#p5 code here' construct
19:32 mr-foobar left
vendethiel ifim: try learnxinyminutes.com/docs/perl6/ 19:33
pmurias grondilu: there is a perl5 impelementation (written in v5) called v5
vendethiel pmurias: written in p6 :p
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pmurias yes 19:34
raiph grondilu: Does your newer digest module do all the things the older one did? 19:37
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grondilu raiph: I don't know. IIRC it doesn't but I'd have to check. 19:38
but above all IIRC the interface is *very* different so it would not be compatible. 19:39
is there a simple way to check which module in the ecosystem depends on a given module? 19:41
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raiph grondilu: simple: just move it to CPAN and use CPAN's nice new dependency display ;) 19:42
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dalek ecs: 82431de | (Elizabeth Mattijsen)++ | S (4 files):
Eradicate Seq
 19:42
grondilu is sorry to say he does not like CPAN 19:43
raiph grondilu: I'm thinking the outcome re the old digest is that it will be deleted. i'm mostly wondering about cherry picking from it
grondilu raiph: do you want to be added as a contributer to my version of Digest? 19:44
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dalek ast: 2d166a0 | (David Warring [email@hidden.address] | S05-grammar/protoregex.t:
another fudged test for RT #120146
 19:46
synopsebot Link: rt.perl.org/rt3//Public/Bug/Displa...?id=120146
grondilu I've added FROGGS and retupmoca lately, I guess I can add you as well 19:47
raiph grondilu: I'm just following up on questhub.io/realm/perl/quest/53457...d24e00006d
grondilu oh, ok 19:48
grondilu doesn't quite feel like engaging in a quest right now (excess of laziness)
19:49 Psyche^_ left
grondilu what is github.com/perl6/modules anyway?? 19:51
I mean is there someone using this?
raiph grondilu: a stale repo (hasn't been updated in 5 years). fyi the old module is just one screenful of which I'd imagine just a few lines might be worth cherry picking, if any
grondilu looks at it more closely 19:52
vendethiel raiph: no, it's just PIR code
grondilu: ^
grondilu indeed, and not much of it. 19:53
I think you can just forget about this.
raiph OK, that repo needs to just go
thanks
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lizmat TimToady: nice ride through the Eldorado National Forest, hope you don't get bothered by any forest fires 19:55
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dalek ast: 3747123 | (David Warring [email@hidden.address] | S05-grammar/protoregex.t:
typo
 20:03
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lizmat r: @a.push: $("one,two,three".split(",")); say @a # seems broken on JVM since jnthn last push opt 20:13
camelia rakudo-{parrot,moar} aac70a: OUTPUT«===SORRY!=== Error while compiling /tmp/tmpfile␤Variable '@a' is not declared␤at /tmp/tmpfile:1␤------> @a.push: $("one,two,three".split(","))⏏; say @a # seems broken on JVM since j␤ expecting an…»
..rakudo-jvm aac70a: OUTPUT«Can't call method "syswrite" on an undefined value at /home/p6eval/jvm-rakudo/eval-client.pl line 32.␤»
lizmat r: my @a.push: $("one,two,three".split(",")); say @a # seems broken on JVM since jnthn last push opt
camelia rakudo-{parrot,moar} aac70a: OUTPUT«===SORRY!=== Error while compiling /tmp/tmpfile␤Two terms in a row␤at /tmp/tmpfile:1␤------> my @a⏏.push: $("one,two,three".split(",")); sa␤ expecting any of:␤ scoped declarator␤ …»
..rakudo-jvm aac70a: OUTPUT«Can't call method "syswrite" on an undefined value at /home/p6eval/jvm-rakudo/eval-client.pl line 32.␤»
lizmat r: my @a; @a.push: $("one,two,three".split(",")); say @a # seems broken on JVM since jnthn last push opt
camelia rakudo-{parrot,moar} aac70a: OUTPUT«one two three␤»
..rakudo-jvm aac70a: OUTPUT«Can't call method "syswrite" on an undefined value at /home/p6eval/jvm-rakudo/eval-client.pl line 32.␤»
lizmat grrrr 20:14
$ perl6-j -e 'my @a; @a.push: $("one,two,three".split(",")); say @a'
(so nothing visible)
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Grrrr lizmat: I did not do it! 20:22
lizmat sorry Grrrr :-)
Grrrr lizmat: :) my nick can serve for convenient tab completion of an expression of frustration; it's a public service 20:23
lizmat .o( where is "argh" when we need him/her ) 20:24
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arghh here yu go :) 20:27
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lizmat arghh ! 20:28
thank you!
20:29 colomon joined
woolfy virtualsue: compliments on a nicely organised London Perl Hackday (I saw some nice comments). virtualsue++ itz++ 20:32
virtualsue thanks. it went really well and i’ve asked to book the same room in november for another one 20:33
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woolfy virtualsue: November is already an extremely busy month... 20:43
virtualsue december is worse
woolfy At the moment I don't know about any Perl-event in december. November has: 8th: Barcelona & London & Pittsburgh Perl Workshop ; 17th: Nordic Perl Workshop ; 22nd: Bulgarian Perl Workshop ; 27-30th: French Perl Hackathon patch -p2 20:44
Maybe even the Portuguese Perl Workshop, when they get their act (no pun intended) together. 20:45
arghh French Perl Hackathon is in Paris I assume? 20:53
vendethiel no, lyon
arghh ok
vendethiel I do plan to do something p6-related in paris
cognome would be the one to ping 20:54
g'night, #perl6 :)
dalek ast: b85c0f3 | (David Warring [email@hidden.address] | S02-types/whatever.t:
added another fudged test for RT #122708
synopsebot Link: rt.perl.org/rt3//Public/Bug/Displa...?id=122708
virtualsue i envision these london hackdays as being something we do regularly every 2-3 months
when i say december is busy, i mean that it interferes with holidays 20:55
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virtualsue most of our attendees won’t be going to perl workshops outside the uk 20:56
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cognome arghh: I think BooK will organize a QA hackathon at Lyon in late 2014 or early 2015. He is in this channel, mostly to be ping-able. So he will eventually probably infirm or comfirm what I said. 21:04
the benefit of Lyon is that the food is probably better than in Paris. :) 21:05
leont QA hackathon in Lyon was last March ;-) 21:06
cognome leont, I am talking of the next one.
leont Next QA hackathon is in Berlin in April 2015. I suspect you're thinking about some other hackathon. 21:08
lizmat patch -p2 21:09
blogs.perl.org/users/book/2014/09/patch-p2.html
cognome I am deliberately fuzzy because I know there is a tentative date given by BooK.
ho, there is an official announcment. lizmat++
lizmat also: blogs.perl.org/users/book/2014/09/s...pment.html 21:10
cognome BooK++
leont: so, indeed, the hackathon focus will not be QA but Act 21:11
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woolfy virtualsue: well, lizmat and me planned on joining you this hackday, but we were just too tired, and we thought it would be a good idea to tell you we might very much like to be present at the next one... 21:24
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BooK and we need monies to fund Act hackers 21:24
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BooK the website for patch -p2 is not live yet, but should be by the time gabor sends the perl weekly newsletter :-) 21:25
woolfy virtualsue: but if your next hackday is on the same day as an other event we will attend in november... well... that's going to be difficulty...
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virtualsue woolfy: if you miss november there will be another one not long after that one 21:25
BooK virtualsue: is there a date I should publish on the yapc europe calendar? 21:26
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virtualsue i’ll let you know after i get permission from hackspace members on the room booking 21:29
woolfy virtualsue: excellent!
virtualsue everyone liked this well enough that i think they will happen far more frequently than tech meets
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lizmat sleep& 21:36
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