»ö« Welcome to Perl 6! | perl6.org/ | evalbot usage: 'perl6: say 3;' or rakudo:, niecza:, std:, or /msg camelia perl6: ... | irclog: irc.perl6.org | UTF-8 is our friend!
Set by sorear on 25 June 2013.
raydiak hah ab5tract++ 00:06
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jercos gotta turn my monitor upside down for it to work though :p 00:07
raydiak nah just yer head :) 00:08
rjbs TimToady: How did "bless" come to be called "bless"? 00:11
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raydiak guesses it has to do with how it anoints a referant into a class in p5 00:23
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dalek kudo/nom: c91a583 | (Geoffrey Broadwell)++ | src/core/Temporal.pm:
Loosen Date.new(DateTime) to Date.new(Dateish) to simplify subclasses
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dalek ecs: 09480dd | (Rob Hoelz)++ | S99-glossary.pod:
Document closure parameters in S99

I found the naming of closure parameters versus subsignatures confusing, so I thought I would clarify in S99		 03:41
ecs: 7f6282f | (Rob Hoelz)++ | S99-glossary.pod:
Add a glossary entry for subsignatures
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lokendra hi 07:31
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lokendra need to know the start for for perl 07:32
Timbus what do you need to know the start for for for 07:36
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lokendra yes timbus 08:26
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Timbus i fear we may have a small language barrier here, lokendra. :) could you ask your question differently? 08:34
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mathw morning 08:42
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lokendra i want to help, what can I do 08:46
JimmyZ_ describe where is your pain :) 08:50
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masak good antenoon, #perl6 09:53
arnsholt o/ 09:54
JimmyZ_ \o
mathw o/
mathw would rather be writing Perl 6 09:55
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mathw (okay I admit it, I'd also rather be writing some sort of Lisp, or Haskell, or learning PureScript, but there's exciting things going on in Perl 6 world on my hard drive) 10:00
arnsholt What are you stuck writing? 10:03
masak lokendra: hi. if you're new to Perl 6, there are people here who can get you started. if you want to contribute, we can help with that too. :)
mathw arnsholt: I'm not writing anything at all, I'm triaging support requests :(
arnsholt Ow. Even worse than PHP (probably) 10:04
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mathw well... I'm not entirely sure about that. 10:09
I do have very strong feelings about PHP
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Ven moritz++ # p6advent 10:13
on the topic of reactive stuff: github.com/kriskowal/gtor
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mathw So happy to see reactive programming getting more and more traction 10:19
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brrt \o #perl6 10:20
fwiw I had an idea for what to do on the perl6 advent calendar
Ven o/ brrt
brrt basically, would it be fun to do a post 'see how the moarvm jit works for YOU' 10:21
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Ven very much :-) 10:23
brrt ok, then that's what i'll do
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mathw I'm preparing a talk for Nottingham.pm's next tech night called "What do you mean you can't do $x in Perl 6?" 10:34
Naturally this involves writing presentation-assisting tools in Perl 6
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brrt :-) 10:40
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masak mathw++ :) 11:03
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mathw we shall see how it goes, but the regulars are interested in hearing it 11:07
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masak "Lisp in Small Pieces" has arrived! \o/ 12:08
its chapter 9 is called "Macros: their use and abuse" :P 12:09
mathw: www.purescript.org/ looks interesting. 12:10
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masak the tone in news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8724727 is uplifting. 12:17
though I also note that people can't tell terms from operators, and apparently "more readable" means "I've spent a lot of time reading this language, so I can read it more easily".
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sergot hello o/ 13:38
What trick was there with 42 in Perl 6?
I forgot it
tadzik a trick with 42? 13:39
mathw masak: it always does. See also 'intuitive' 13:40
people say Python is unintuitive because they're used to curly braces and find the idea of significant whitespace to be abhorrent. Despite that they probably follow similar unenforced rules just to make their code readable...
sergot tadzik: "the meaning of life"
I barely remember this 13:41
FROGGS m: say 42.WHY
camelia rakudo-moar c91a58: OUTPUT«(Any)␤»
tadzik :D
FROGGS hmmm
I though that would do
tadzik sergot: I didn't know there is something specific about it in p6
geekosaur m: say 42.WHAT
camelia rakudo-moar c91a58: OUTPUT«(Int)␤»
geekosaur mrrr, what was it
tadzik found it 13:42
but I cheated
m: "Life, the Universe, and Everything".WHY.say
camelia rakudo-moar c91a58: OUTPUT«42␤»
FROGGS ahh
:o)
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sergot tadzik++ 13:42
geekosaur yeh, had a feeling it was the other way around but my log greps aren't spotting it, sigh
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Rounin Haha 13:43
tgt 42.WHY worked in April, but broke at some point.
sergot It was cool :) 13:44
tgt irclog.perlgeek.de/perl6/2014-04-26#i_8642372
masak it used to be the other way around. 13:45
this way makes a bit more sense, though. as "42" is the answer, not the question.
brrt` m: say 32.WHY
camelia rakudo-moar c91a58: OUTPUT«(Any)␤»
geekosaur that was why I tried .WHAT
brrt` m: "Life, the Universe, and Everything".WHY 13:46
camelia ( no output )
brrt` nice 13:47
hmm wait
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brrt what does perl6 has for printf support 13:49
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tadzik brrt: it's our own implemented in nqp iirc 13:50
brrt ah
but
m: printf("%d", 42); 13:51
camelia rakudo-moar c91a58: OUTPUT«42»
brrt ah
brrt didn't read the error message very well
do we support position specifiers? 13:52
as in: m: printf("%2$d %1$d", 1, 2);
m: printf("%2$d %1$d", 1, 2);
camelia rakudo-moar c91a58: OUTPUT«===SORRY!=== Error while compiling /tmp/JOCybDXxYC␤Variable '$d' is not declared␤at /tmp/JOCybDXxYC:1␤------> printf("%2$d⏏ %1$d", 1, 2);␤ expecting any of:␤ postfix␤»
brrt uh duh 13:53
m: printf('%2$d %1$d', 1, 2);
camelia rakudo-moar c91a58: OUTPUT«2 1»
brrt public service announcement, brrt is dumb today
lizmat good *, #perl6! 13:57
FROGGS hi lizmat
lizmat just recovered from a ~9 hour Hobbit Marathon
wrt to 42.WHY: yes, that used to work
but someone pointed out to me, it was actually the other way around 13:58
tadzik lizmat: so, the first film? :P
lizmat 42 was the answer, not the question :-)
the first 3 films
brrt \o lizmat
lizmat brrt tadzik FROGGS o/
tadzik o/
brrt is the third hobbit film available yet?
as in
released
FROGGS does it have production grade? 13:59
FROGGS runs
lizmat brrt: yes, it came out today (just after midnight :-)
brrt awesome 14:00
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geekosaur considers a compare and contrast with the Rankin-Bass one >.> 14:02
tadzik on the day that thepiratebay went down :P
colomon Never thought I'd say this, but based on the first two Jackson films, the Rankin-Bass one is miles better. :) 14:03
geekosaur I can't really claim to be surprised; doing it as a trilogy always seemed like it was aiming for doom 14:04
Rounin Hm yes, it's not exactly the longest book, is it? 14:07
colomon While I hate the additions to pad the running time, my real objection is to the goofy action scenes, I think.
brrt on the other hand, it's likely you'd spend more than 9 hours reading it
colomon brrt: !!! I haven't timed myself recently, but I'm pretty sure I'd have finished it in 2-3 hours back when I was a kid and had uninterrupted reading time. 14:08
Rounin Yes, they could include every description of every tree
Complete with a voiceover 14:09
brrt hasn't read it at all
Rounin "Here are all of Bilbo's aunts and uncles, by the way:"
brrt but perhaps i'm a relatively slow reader
[Coke] it's including other source material, not just the hobbit.
but yes, the long running action sequences that appear to be there solely to give some heft to the 3D experience are meh for me. 14:10
(my kid doesn't mind them, however, which I think might be kind of th epoint)
colomon [Coke]: yeah, I may not be the intended audience.
Just checked, and an unabridged audiobook of The Hobbit is 11 hours and 8 minutes. 14:11
[Coke] colomon: I am sure I could devour it much faster. :P
I am just glad the movie is here so my daughter can watch it, and NOW FINALLY she will consent to watch LOTR with me. :) 14:12
colomon [Coke]: yes, notice my estimate of (silent) reading time above. ;)
Rounin She's reached the age of Tolkien consent... What a milestone!
[Coke] Rounin: only reason she wouldn't watch it before was because she wanted to see the movies in order. :P 14:13
sorry, “in order”
Rounin She sounds more than adequately geeky, [Coke]
lizmat wonders how much better the extended versions will be, especially wrt to action/non-action scene ratio 14:14
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moritz ok, I'm slowly setting up the various p6 websites on the new webserver 14:16
with domain p6c.org instead of perl6.org
so that we can do a friendly DNS switch-over once everything is as we want
www.p6c.org and faq.p6c.org are already set up 14:17
geekosaur yeh, I've found I can't do audiobooks because it's painfully slow compared to reading
masak today's autopun spotting: twitter.com/secboffin/status/534629070508920832
colomon is now listening to www.youtube.com/watch?v=B3kCGNFBuSU because of this conversation 14:19
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moritz geekosaur: I find audiobooks perfect when doing laundry etc. 14:20
colomon long drives... 14:21
saving your voice when your son wants to hear Prisoner of Azkaban for the fifth time....
[Coke] I put on podcasts/short stories when walking.
but yah, if it's the -active- thing I'm doing, it's too slow. waaaay too slow 14:22
FROGGS moritz: p6c.org feels fast-ish :o) 14:24
moritz FROGGS: \o/
also shell accounts are available 14:25
FROGGS nice :o)
PerlJam moritz++ 14:27
moritz: so ... how do we obtain said shell accounts? 14:28
moritz PerlJam: /msg me your pubkey and desired username
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moritz I plan to blog about it later 14:29
masak ooh, I have another advent blog idea!
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masak will take a bit of effort to pull off, but should be worth it... :) 14:29
colomon moritz: shall we move the smoke test report stuff over?
masak I'd better write it sooner rather than later, though.
moritz colomon: yes please 14:32
colomon: though that's probably better located on the webserver (www.p6c.org)
FROGGS go masak go! /o/ 14:33
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colomon moritz++ 14:46
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lizmat welcome Foxcool :-) 14:51
Foxcool (: 14:52
lizmat moritz: I wonder whether we shouldn't have a ':all' param on PsuedoStash.keys 14:53
*Pseudo
I guess after a while you get fed up with seeing the usual suspects in there :-) 14:54
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masak lizmat: I haven't kept up on PseduoStashes. when does this happen? 15:22
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moritz lizmat: you mean for the implicit vars? 15:33
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lizmat moritz: yes, the implicit vars 15:37
masak it sounds harmful to me to hide something by default that's there but implicitly declared. 15:44
lizmat but we do the same with ^methods, no? 15:46
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andreoss sub ... is cached{ # no space between 'd' and '{' - causes compile-time error 16:00
why space is needed?
flussence cached{...} is a hash key lookup 16:01
std: sub foo is cached{ 1 }
camelia std 76ccee1: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Malformed block at /tmp/cMv2wK83uk line 1 (EOF):␤------> sub foo is cached{ 1 }⏏<EOL>␤Parse failed␤FAILED 00:00 137m␤»
andreoss even without sigil? 16:02
FROGGS std: sub foo is cached{ 1 } { ... }
camelia std 76ccee1: OUTPUT«ok 00:00 137m␤»
FROGGS that belongs to the trait
std: sub foo is cached(1) { ... } # like in here
camelia std 76ccee1: OUTPUT«ok 00:00 139m␤»
flussence m: constant cached = { :foo, :bar }; say cached{'foo'} 16:03
camelia rakudo-moar c91a58: OUTPUT«True␤»
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andreoss so with 'is cached{...}' ... is meant for some additional options? 16:06
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psch hi #perl6 \o 16:31
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moritz oh hai 17:03
so we don't have an advent post for tomorrow
who wants to chime in?
TimToady yesterday jnthn++ was saying he would, I thought, but I'm still backlogging 17:04
moritz oh right, I misread the diff
so nevermind
jnthn++
so Saturday, 13th is the next unclaimed spot
jnthn Yeah, I'll probably eat first, and then work on it :) 17:07
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andreoss yet is there something anyhow close to perltidy? 17:10
so far i've found Perl6::Format which is broken/unfinished
masak oh, I was not aware of that one. 17:15
dalek ake: c53c697 | (Arne Skjærholt)++ | src/Snake/Metamodel/ClassHOW.nqp:
First stab at user-defined callables.
masak andreoss: no, I wouldn't say there is anything close to PerlTidy yet.
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alesk m: role Doc { has $.doc is rw }; multi trait_mod:<is>(Attribute $a, Doc, $arg) { $a.container.VAR does Doc($arg); }; class C { has @.v is Doc('Array container') is rw; }; my $x = C.new; $x.v.doc.say; $x.v = (42, 43, 44); $x.v.perl.say; 17:22
camelia rakudo-moar c91a58: OUTPUT«Array container␤Array+{Doc}.new(42, 43, 44)␤»
alesk m: role Doc { has $.doc is rw }; multi trait_mod:<is>(Attribute $a, Doc, $arg) { $a.container.VAR does Doc($arg); }; class C { has $.v is Doc('Scalar container') is rw; }; my $x = C.new; $x.v.doc.say; $x.v = 42; $x.v.perl.say; 17:23
camelia rakudo-moar c91a58: OUTPUT«Scalar container␤Cannot modify an immutable Scalar+{Doc}␤ in block <unit> at /tmp/l8vXmsezxt:1␤␤»
alesk Why does it not work with scalars ? 17:24
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psch m: my $x = 5; my $whichx = $x.WHICH; $x = 6; say $whichx === $x.WHICH 17:27
camelia rakudo-moar c91a58: OUTPUT«False␤»
hoelzro o/ #perl6 17:28
psch hoelzro \o
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hoelzro so I've been playing with Go a bit recently, and one thing that I find appealing about it is its tools to operate on Go source (ex. go fmt) 17:33
these are easy to make because there's a Go parser in the stdlib; do we have a Grammar (other than Grammar.nqp) for doing something like this for Perl 6 source? 17:34
I guess maybe STD.pm6 =/
[Coke] m: say Perl6::Grammar.WHAT: 17:35
camelia rakudo-moar c91a58: OUTPUT«===SORRY!=== Error while compiling /tmp/QZy8hRja3j␤Missing semicolon.␤at /tmp/QZy8hRja3j:1␤------> say Perl6::Grammar.WHAT:⏏<EOL>␤ expecting any of:␤ colon pair␤»
TimToady it's probably about time to translate STD.pm6 to run on rakudo
[Coke] m: say Perl6::Grammar.WHAT;
camelia rakudo-moar c91a58: OUTPUT«Could not find symbol '&Grammar'␤ in method <anon> at src/gen/m-CORE.setting:13772␤ in any find_method_fallback at src/gen/m-Metamodel.nqp:2725␤ in any find_method at src/gen/m-Metamodel.nqp:988␤ in block <unit> at /tmp/XRF3CpOACx:1␤␤»
psch m: say %~LANG 17:36
camelia rakudo-moar c91a58: OUTPUT«Slang.new(:grammar(Any), :actions(Any))␤»
TimToady but the desire for a standard high-level AST for macros may produce something in this regard to
thing is, Go is one language by design, and Perl 6 is many languages by design, so you have to account for extensibility 17:37
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hoelzro indeed 17:37
my use case is I want to search roast for a particular construction to see it's covered in tests 17:38
and the construction involves a for loop, so searching by hand isn't really an option =/
TimToady it has been our feeling from the beginning that Paul Graham is correct about the 100-year language needing to be evolvable
so basically we need to extend our extensibility to the document model for Perl 6 code :) 17:39
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TimToady à la PPI, but extensible along with the language 17:40
hoelzro sounds good to me
because one might add, for example, an after block (or something), and may want to write a tool to do something with after blocks, right? 17:41
TimToady you'd like your IDE to suddenly know about them, yeah
hoelzro makes sense 17:42
moritz loliblug: perlgeek.de/blog-en/perl-6/2014-com...-live.html 17:48
TimToady wonders what breaks if we translate Grammar.nqp into Grammar.pm6 without translating Actions.nqp
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psch .tell jnthn fwiw, jarakudo tags 2013.11 and 2013.12 also die with boxing errors on the CRC32 example, so i don't know where to start bisecting from 17:55
yoleaux psch: I'll pass your message to jnthn.
psch moritz++ # hardware and such 17:56
moritz psch: just to be clear, I didn't pay anything for the hardware, that was funded by community donations 17:57
TimToady moritz++ # scutwork and such :) 17:58
psch moritz: oh, yeah i know that. "handling hardware" might've been better
apparently i regularly struggle with actually expressing what i mean
TimToady now wonders the derivation of "scut"...probably scatalogical...
or scutalogical... 17:59
moritz simply out-corrects to "scout work" :-)
TimToady *ological
moritz or "grunt work" 18:00
huf huh, new word! thanks
TimToady now wonders about the derivation of "grunt" :)
moritz it's hard, thankless work where you grunt while doing it
or feel like a pig 18:01
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TimToady hopes pigs feel better when it's done 18:01
moritz does, at least 18:02
huf grunt sounds suspiciously like the sound of grunting... 18:03
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moritz I've now enforced some resource limits on user accounts on hack.p6c.org 18:05
max RSS of 8GB, max. 1k processes, max 50 parallel logins per user 18:06
does that sound reasonable?
PerlJam moritz: aye.
TimToady 50 logins should be enough for anyone :P 18:07
moritz it's not supposed to be lose enough to work well with rakudo dev, and only strict enough to not kill the server accidentally
TimToady well, it's not like it's set in stone for all eternity 18:08
not that stones are eternal either...
masak .oO( unless they are infinity stones... ) 18:09
moritz agreed with both :-)
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vendethiel o/, #perl6 18:16
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andreoss my @x = "123" ~~ m/\d/; # > catches 1 18:20
my @x = "123" ~~ m:g/\d/; # > catches nothing
how do i get matches in array context? 18:21
tony-o use .any
oh, nvm
psch andreoss: use the .match methods for now, m:g// isn't working quite right currently 18:24
*method
m: say "123".match(:g, /\d/)
camelia rakudo-moar c91a58: OUTPUT«｢1｣␤ ｢2｣␤ ｢3｣␤␤» 18:25
masak m: say "123".comb(/\d/) 18:27
camelia rakudo-moar c91a58: OUTPUT«1 2 3␤»
masak m: say "123".comb(/\d/).perl
camelia rakudo-moar c91a58: OUTPUT«("1", "2", "3").list␤»
tony-o masak: beat me 18:28
masak I don't believe in violence. 18:29
you'll have to ask someone else.
andreoss my @x = "123" ~~ m/\d/; # > catches 1
my @x = "123" ~~ m:g/\d/; # > catches nothing
sorry..wrong buffer
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andreoss btw, is there #learningperl6 or something like that? don't wanna spoil serious discussions with noob questions 18:30
vendethiel andreoss: there's no "noob questions" :) 18:32
TimToady maybe we should just make List one of the success values that smartmatching doesn't retest
I can't really think of any downsides 18:34
PerlJam vendethiel: I'd say ... there's only "noob questions" ;)
TimToady anything currently done by List.ACCEPTS should probably have a keyword anyway
psch TimToady: that would happen instead of the OKness bit?
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masak PerlJam, vendethiel: the noob/non-noob duality is an illusion! 18:35
TimToady nobody every sprang for an OKness bit, but we've just kept a list of exceptional values/types
psch rather, "be an alternative to the OKness bit to improve smartmatching"
TimToady it seems saner than creating fake Match objects out of lists 18:36
and potentially allows other types to return lists as a success 18:37
and it falls out naturally that a list with 0 elements is False, while other lists are True, so a successful match can still be evaluated for 1-or-more-ness, which pretty much corresponds to how P5 handles matching in list vs boolean context 18:38
psch fwiw, the implementation for m:g// that i have sitting around leaves a root Match object around, which represents everything that has matched as one match
but it waterbedded towards "you have to say you want the list if you want to iterate over the list" 18:39
which as mentioned seems un-idiomatic
from that point of view i think having m:g// just return a List sounds cleaner
TimToady indeed 18:40
psch and the point with truthiness of a List according to the number of elements is good as well 18:41
jnthn Also, Match objects as currently factored don't do laziness, and m:g kinda wants it, or potentially wants it... 18:46
yoleaux 17:55Z <psch> jnthn: fwiw, jarakudo tags 2013.11 and 2013.12 also die with boxing errors on the CRC32 example, so i don't know where to start bisecting from
jnthn And m:ex I guess really wants it. 18:47
TimToady we should also remove any wildcarding from Array.ACCEPTS and make such pattern matching keyword driven as well 18:50
"respectively" is a bit long, however :) 18:52
jnthn .tell psch Well, bother. That means it bust ages ago :/
yoleaux jnthn: I'll pass your message to psch.
18:54 FROGGS joined
psch was here all along 18:55
yoleaux 18:52Z <jnthn> psch: Well, bother. That means it bust ages ago :/
psch maybe i can get it with my overloaded method work, if not i'll look later on 18:56
[Coke] Do we have a page with "must have for 6.0.0." ? 18:58
I want to make sure we have some notes about tests.
jnthn must have dinner & 18:59
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[Coke] is so glad his $dayjob should be going back to normal soon. 19:00
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FROGGS lizmat: what's "That worked out" in .nl? 19:03
hoelzro .oO( het heeft uitgewerkt? ) 19:04
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mvuets paste.scsys.co.uk/451676 - open does not handle :enc<utf16> properly, :enc<cp1251> dies with a fair reasonable message though 19:04
is it known? or should i rakudobug it?
psch m: my \xₙ = 1; my \xₙ₊₁ = xₙ + 1; # this made me a bit sad recently 19:07
camelia rakudo-moar c91a58: OUTPUT«===SORRY!=== Error while compiling /tmp/WRagmtH7sq␤Term definition requires an initializer␤at /tmp/WRagmtH7sq:1␤------> my \xₙ = 1; my \xₙ⏏₊₁ = xₙ + 1; # this made me a bit sad re␤ expecting any o…»
psch not sure if it'd be reasonable to expect it to work
FROGGS you expect that the + will be part of the name?
psch i'd have liked it in this case, yeah 19:08
mvuets re open: fwiw it's print() that fails, not open(), but the question stays
psch but it's still a plus, even if subscripted
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psch mvuets: a cursory search of RT didn't reveal a known bug to me at least 19:10
[Coke] There's limits on what's in a var name. 19:11
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[Coke] "An identifier is composed of an alphabetic character followed by any sequence of alphanumeric characters. The definitions of alphabetic and numeric include appropriate Unicode characters. Underscore is always considered alphabetic. An identifier may also contain isolated apostrophes or hyphens provided the next character is alphabetic." 19:12
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smls How can I get formatting codes to work inside Pod tables? (Stand-alone example script: gist.github.com/smls/f10a15046a58c740248c ) 19:13
[Coke] so, no bug there, methinks.
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psch oh, i'm not saying it's a bug 19:17
i can accept having to override <ident> to get that kind of identifier working 19:18
it's not like we're generally that math-centric to want non-alnum sub- or superscripts in identifiers 19:19
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ronin what's wrong with this ideone.com/xuZcUT gist.github.com/smls/732115c66cd29...-grades-p6 19:22
I get Unable to open filehandle from path 'grades.p6' 19:23
mvuets links on rakudo.org/tickets/ are broken )-: for instance, rakudo.org/rt/easy -> "There was an error parsing your search query [...]"
m: say "☺".encode("UTF-8") 19:24
camelia rakudo-moar c91a58: OUTPUT«Buf:0x<e2 98 ba>␤»
mvuets m: say "☺".encode("UTF-16")
camelia rakudo-moar c91a58: OUTPUT«Buf:0x<263a>␤»
mvuets latter case seems odd: is that a multi-byte? encode should return octets as in the former example, shouldn't it? 19:25
smls ronin: Do you have the grades.txt file in the current directory? 19:27
ronin yes
wait
I run it from the wrong directory, how can i even run it from wrong directory? :/ 19:28
wtf
but i get now: Unsupported use of - as character range; in Perl 6 please use .. at line 4, near "]>?) $/ or"
FROGGS std: /<[+-]>/ 19:29
camelia std 76ccee1: OUTPUT«ok 00:00 138m␤»
FROGGS m: /<[+-]>/
camelia ( no output )
geekosaur mvuets: Buf can have sizes other than 8 (octets). encode("UTF-16") gives you a Buf of 2-byte chunks, corresponding to the encoding 19:31
smls ronin: It works fine for me on a relatively recent Rakudo+MoarVM
FROGGS will that every work? m:s/^ (\w+) (<[A..F]><[+-]>?) $/ 19:32
ahh, yes perhaps 19:33
vendethiel finished the draft of the new learnperl6inyminutes 19:36
smls m: "Celine\tA-" ~~ m:s/^ (\w+) (<[A..F]><[+-]>?) $/; say "$0: $1"
camelia rakudo-moar c91a58: OUTPUT«Celine: A-␤»
vendethiel new structure*
mvuets m: say "☺".encode("utf-16").perl
camelia rakudo-moar c91a58: OUTPUT«utf16.new(9786)␤»
mvuets apparently utf-16 is affected by endianness (in contrast to utf-16le and utf16-be) 19:37
so that is perfectly valid
geekosaur: thanks (-:
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nige Hi 19:48
here is a draft my advent post - feedback is very welcome: perl6advent.wordpress.com/?p=2507&a...eview=true
psch nige++ # portcullis as a mnemonic for private attribute twigil 19:51
vendethiel can't read it 19:53
psch i'm not sure i fully agree with "the twigil travels with the attribute through the class" - you can (have to) access $.var as $!var if you want to write to it
vendethiel: you need to be in the author group i think 19:54
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FROGGS nige++ 19:55
I like it :o)
psch i also meant to put a "?" after the parenthesesed "have to", because i'm not completely sure... 19:56
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FROGGS psch: you have to if your accessor method is not rw 19:56
psch FROGGS++: ah, okay, thanks 19:57
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vendethiel ah, right. 19:58
dalek kudo/nom: 5f64944 | (Tobias Leich)++ | src/core/operators.pm:
RT #123303 fix exception throwing of undeducable sequences
 20:01
synopsebot Link: rt.perl.org/rt3//Public/Bug/Displa...?id=123303
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bartolin hi, #perl6 20:03
speaking of sequences: did someone have an opportunity to look at my PR which attempts to fix chained sequences (github.com/rakudo/rakudo/pull/336) 20:05
dalek ast: 3b96e08 | (Tobias Leich)++ | S03-sequence/misc.t:
RT #123303 test exception throwing of undeducable sequences
 20:07
synopsebot Link: rt.perl.org/rt3//Public/Bug/Displa...?id=123303
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FROGGS bartolin: let me test it 20:10
bartolin great! FROGSS++
FROGGS bartolin: could that be part of an else after line 232? github.com/usev6/rakudo/commit/8b8...2a492aR225 20:12
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bartolin FROGGS: yes, that looks plausible 20:15
FROGGS maybe we spot another opportunity to save some work...
would be unfortunate to slow sequences down 20:16
bartolin agreed. I was kind of happy to make it work -- but the code can be improved surely ... 20:19
FROGGS yeah, it looks very good... I don't see any spectest fallout yet 20:20
bartolin I had no spectest failures as well (moar, parrot and jvm)
but on the other hand there aren't many tests for chained sequences (and probably it's not used for other functionalities) 20:23
the four tests skipped for rakudo in S03-sequence/misc.t should pass with this as well 20:25
FROGGS yes, that's what I am testing 20:29
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FROGGS bartolin: can you please push optimizations to your repo? I'll merge it when I get your ok 20:34
mvuets paste.scsys.co.uk/451709 - IO::Handle.open does not handle symlinks? )-:
bartolin FROGGS: do you have other suggestions at hand (apart from the else clause mentioned above)? 20:36
mvuets how do i search ticket bodies in rt?
FROGGS bartolin: maybe don't alloc @left_tail? 20:37
mvuets: I believe it is not possible anymore... it used to work until RT was updated
bartolin: same for $last 20:38
mvuets FROGGS: when i want to check if the bug is reported already, i can count on subjects only?
bartolin FROGGS: okay, I'll look at it. thanks a lot for testing and commenting!
FROGGS bartolin: sure :o) 20:39
psch ohh boy. i get different behavior for repeated runs of the same code :(
sometimes debug output disappears /o\
FROGGS bartolin: please point to other PR's... it is easy to overlook them :o/
mvuets: aye, also masak and bartolin know pretty well the bugs they filed/reviewed :o) 20:40
bartolin there is only a PR for the P6 book (mostly to handle the related tickets): github.com/perl6/book/pull/82
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bartolin *g* 20:41
FROGGS bartolin: line 238 in that gist can be simplified:
m: my @a = 1, 2; my @b = 3, 4; say @a = unshift @b, @a
camelia rakudo-moar 5f6494: OUTPUT«1 2 3 4␤»
FROGGS you don't need any 'unshift', right?
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FROGGS m: my @a = 1, 2; my @b = 3, 4; say @a = @a, @b 20:42
camelia rakudo-moar 5f6494: OUTPUT«1 2 3 4␤»
FROGGS m: my @a = 1, 2; my @b = 3, 4; @a.push: @b; say @a
camelia rakudo-moar 5f6494: OUTPUT«1 2 3 4␤»
FROGGS I'd prefer the latter
bartolin FROGGS: but @seq can be infinite 20:43
s/seq/seq_part/ 20:44
FROGGS m: my @a := 1..*; my @b = 42; @a := @a, @b
camelia ( no output )
FROGGS m: my @b := 1..*; my @a = 42; @a := @a, @b
camelia ( no output )
FROGGS that should do
bartolin FROGGS++
FROGGS err, @a := (@b, @a).flat <-- better 20:45
that's almost an idiom, you find that in quite some places in the setting
bartolin that gave me something to work on, thanks again 20:46
FROGGS :o)
masak perl6: sub f { my &b = { say "returnin'!"; return }; sub g(&c) { say "in g"; c() }; g(&b); say "still in f" }; f() 20:50
camelia rakudo-{parrot,moar} 5f6494: OUTPUT«in g␤returnin'!␤»
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mvuets filed his two very first perl6 bug reports (-: 21:04
bartolin you're welcome ;-)
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hoelzro mvuets++ 21:06
jnthn works on le blog post 21:07
mvuets #perl6, i had this idea to share interesting perl6 sample few-liners along as i learn the language 21:08
itz arggg systemd ate my sid
mvuets with hoelzro's boost i created a twitter account for this purpose 21:09
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PerlJam mvuets++ 21:09
mvuets enter twitter.com/perlhex
hoelzro++ for the great handle pun name
FROGGS jnthn: for your blog or the advent calendar? 21:10
jnthn FROGGS: Ja.
masak 'night, #perl6
FROGGS arrgh!
jnthn Bah, there goes one of my proof readers... :P
'night, masak
FROGGS: Uh, for the advent calendar... :)
FROGGS jnthn: as I tend to say to my kids: replying with 'ja' to an either/or question is invalid!
kthx :o) 21:11
gnight masak
jnthn Damn, I was so proud I managed to answer it in another language, I forget the answer was meaningless. :P
FROGGS hehe
mvuets i started off with easy and trivial examples, pretending i write a tutorial for newbies (-:
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mvuets and do not want to freak out people with crazy fancy examples at once 21:12
FROGGS yeah, don't spread line noise :o) 21:13
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mvuets so, if you have any feedback (what to post, how to post, stop it altogether, etc) - very welcome 21:14
vendethiel niice :-) 21:15
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FROGGS mvuets: nice examples! 21:19
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FROGGS though since I've got no twitter account I won't stalk^Wfollow anybody there :o) 21:19
dalek rl6-roast-data: d8e01f6 | coke++ | / (4 files):
today (automated commit)
 21:20
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perltricks Argh Windows, why 21:26
C:\Users\dfarrell>perl6 -e ".say for 0..10" | more ???????????
moritz does it work without | more ? 21:28
mvuets FROGGS: thank you! 21:29
perltricks moritz: oh yeah it works fine. more just outputs ? for every char printed. I'm trying to find a workaround for the fact that p6doc uses less, which doesn't exist on WIndows
doesn't exist on cmd.exe I should say
jnthn ffs, it does that here as well 21:30
wtf.
geekosaur some kind of encoding issue? like it expects utf16 if it doesn't see the (technically illegal) byte order mark? 21:31
jnthn Redirect to a file works. Piping it into other processes works. But more gets upset.
PerlJam perltricks: write a perl pager to use instead of less :) 21:32
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moritz call it "pess" 21:33
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perltricks hmm 21:35
mvuets perltricks: try gnuwin32.sourceforge.net/packages/less.htm - it's a native port, not as heavy as cygwin
perltricks if you do: chcp 65001 21:36
then try piping into more, you'll see a P6 error msg
Not enough memory. Failed to write string to stream: broken pipe in method print at src/gen/m-CORE.setting:14845 in sub say at src/gen/m-CORE.setting:15179 in method say at src/gen/m-CORE.setting:1136 in block <unit> at -e:1 21:37
mvuets perltricks: also if you use git for windows, iirc it comes with mingw which should have less as well
(that's in case you want to workaround a problem)
perltricks mvuets: thanks, but I'm wondering about how to fix this in p6doc 21:38
dalek c: 69e0292 | moritz++ | sync:
sync also to new community server
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moritz that's it for today, TTFN folks 21:40
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lizmat FROGGS hoelzro: "het heeft uitgewerkt" is a literal translation and not correct 22:04
I would say "alles is op zijn pootjes terecht gekomen"
literally translates to: "everything landed on its feet" 22:05
FROGGS lizmat: thanks! :D
in the end I just wrote "Dat werkte!" 22:06
lizmat that would mean more "it worked" instead of "it worked out"
*that 22:07
FROGGS well, he fixed something, so that's all right I think
lizmat ah, then "dat werkte" would be better 22:08
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bartolin FROGGS: I'm now testing an improved version (IMHO) of my PR locally. if it runs fine, I'll commit it to my repository and leave you a note (probably tomorrow). or should I better close the existing PR and create a new one? 22:11
FROGGS bartolin: just push to your nom branch, and it will show up in the existing PR
bartolin FROGGS: great 22:12
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hoelzro I know, I was trying to make a bad joke =) 22:14
of all of the things I learned living among the Dutch, the language was not one of them 22:15
lizmat I wonder how many Dutch people you've actually seen while you where in Amsterdam :-) 22:16
tony-o timotimo: pipelining is working for http async, doing some testing on it prior to uploading
hoelzro lizmat: good point =)
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lizmat m: role A { has $.a; submethod BUILD(:$!a) {}}; class B does A {}; B.new # this feels weird 22:18
camelia rakudo-moar 5f6494: OUTPUT«P6opaque: no such attribute '$!a'␤ in submethod BUILD at /tmp/oXV5w_hmGw:1␤ in method BUILDALL at src/gen/m-CORE.setting:961␤ in method bless at src/gen/m-CORE.setting:944␤ in method new at src/gen/m-CORE.setting:928␤ in block <unit> at /tmp…»
lizmat so I can't have a submethod BUILD in a role ? 22:19
jnthn lizmat: What happens if you assign the attr in the method body and take a normal programer?
wtf
a normal PARAMETER
FROGGS take that bloody normal programmer! :P 22:20
lizmat jnthn: works ok then
ok, that will do as a workaround then
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jnthn Pleaes file it 22:21
lizmat will do
jnthn it's either a generic instantiatoin bug or, more likely perhaps, a bug in the signature bind lowering optimization tht makes it mis-handle the genericity.
lizmat --optimize=0 gives same result 22:23
jnthn Yeah, but it's actually done in actions phase, not optimizer phase. 22:24
lizmat disabling spesh also doesn't change the result (not that I expected that, but as a data point)
jnthn m: role A { has $.a; submethod BUILD(:$!a, @a? is copy) {}}; class B does A {}; B.new
camelia rakudo-moar 5f6494: OUTPUT«===SORRY!=== Error while compiling /tmp/ncybyPYRO3␤Cannot put optional positional parameter @a after variadic parameters␤at /tmp/ncybyPYRO3:1␤------> s $.a; submethod BUILD(:$!a, @a? is copy⏏) {}}; class B does A {}…»
jnthn ah
m: role A { has $.a; submethod BUILD(@a? is copy, :$!a) {}}; class B does A {}; B.new
camelia ( no output )
jnthn Yeah, it's in the bind lowering. 22:25
(I know bind lowering can't handle @a is copy, so I use it to force it to bail).
22:25 nige left
lizmat does not know what you mean with "bind lowering" 22:26
jnthn lizmat: Signature binding naively goes through a bunch of code that interprets the signature.
lizmat: Bind lowering "compiles" signatures that are simple enough (which is the majority thta show up in real code) 22:27
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jnthn And the bug is in that bit of compilation, somewhere around the code that handles attributive parameters. 22:27
dalek kudo/newio: 37b37fd | jonathan++ | tools/build/NQP_REVISION:
NQP bump to get MoarVM with callbacks changes.
kudo/newio: c91a583 | (Geoffrey Broadwell)++ | src/core/Temporal.pm:
Loosen Date.new(DateTime) to Date.new(Dateish) to simplify subclasses
kudo/newio: c9eecf9 | (Elizabeth Mattijsen)++ | / (2 files):
Merge branch 'nom' into newio
kudo/newio: 21aee6b | (Elizabeth Mattijsen)++ | src/core/IO/Locally.pm:
Workaround for #123407
synopsebot Link: rt.perl.org/rt3//Public/Bug/Displa...?id=123407
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tony-o btyler: can you do a test for me on a branch of http-async ? 22:33
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tony-o btyler: looking at keep-alive on this branch: github.com/tony-o/perl6-http-serve.../keepalive 22:36
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lizmat mvuets: re paste.scsys.co.uk/451709, I don't have any problem opening files from a symlink 22:39
perhaps it's really an access right issue ? 22:40
gnight, #perl6! 22:43
bartolin o/
hoelzro lizmat: did you see the bit about the symlink having a relative vs absolute path? 22:44
lizmat no, but relative/absolute: I can still open a file from a symlink 22:45
(on OS X, that is)
real sleep&
hoelzro ah ha, maybe it's a Linux issue, then 22:49
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tony-o should that bit interpret ~/ as %*ENV<HOME>/ on linux/osx ? 22:50
or whatever the proper environment variable is ^^
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geekosaur um. it's somewhat unusual for programs other than shells to handle ~ 22:52
psch jnthn: how do i handle getting arrays from java? allocate a VMArrayInstance and push the values in there after boxing?
jnthn: another thing i discovered not working is returning objects instantiated in java, test case is a new instance of the class i imported 22:53
that class should already exist but maybe i'm not finding the right STable..? (this stuff is rather complicated i feel...)
jnthn psch: Yes, though see Ops.list or so to see how it's typically done...
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psch ah, RakOps.p6list it is i guess, thanks jnthn++ 22:56
tony-o jnthn: keep-alive seems to be working for http-async, seems like it causes moar to segfault sooner than it used to 23:03
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jnthn tony-o: Yeah. My tuit supply has continued to suck. :( It's likely to improve somewhat in the next days, quite a bit in a couple of weeks, and perhaps very drastically in a few months. :) 23:09
I didn't forget I need to look at it, it's just digging into such things tends to be a many-hour bug hunt. 23:10
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dalek c: fface4e | smls++ | lib/ (11 files):
Refactor and expand sets/bags/mixes docs

The class docs now have their own .pod files in the Type/ folder (like all other classes). The Sets_Bags_and_Mixes language page is renamed to setbagmix to fit in with the usual naming scheme. All related .pod's are now also more fleshed out.		 23:59

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