»ö« Welcome to Perl 6! | perl6.org/ | evalbot usage: 'p6: say 3;' or rakudo:, std:, or /msg camelia p6: ... | irclog: irc.perl6.org | UTF-8 is our friend!
Set by masak on 12 May 2015.
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cognominal_ m: say prefix:<-«>(2,3,4,) 00:13
camelia rakudo-moar 36c4c6: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/T6w0zpkrtQ␤Undeclared routine:␤ prefix:<-«> used at line 1. Did you mean 'prefix:<->', 'prefix:<-->', 'prefix:<~>', 'prefix:<so>'?␤␤»
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cognominal_ here, it says : Cannot find method 'is_dispatcher' 00:14
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TimToady currently it requires the & 00:30
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cognominal_ m: say &prefix:<-«>(2,3,4,) 00:33
camelia rakudo-moar 36c4c6: OUTPUT«Too many positionals passed; expected 1 argument but got 3␤ in block <unit> at /tmp/9OXQ6KsDu6:1␤␤»
TimToady and currently it requires exactly one argument, but may be able to relax both of those
cognominal_ ok, I was just experimenting 00:35
TimToady I had it working with multiple for prefixes, but had trouble with postfixes for some reason, but maybe I'm past that
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TimToady nope, still gets upset, so we'll continue to restrict unaries to, like, one argument :) 00:48
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zengargoyle is there a hash like thing that takes a list/array/not-string as key? 01:12
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zengargoyle m: my $i = 1,2,3; my %h = $i => 'foo'; say %h{$i}; 01:13
camelia rakudo-moar 36c4c6: OUTPUT«WARNINGS:␤Useless use of constant integer 2 in sink context (line 1)␤Useless use of constant integer 3 in sink context (line 1)␤foo␤»
zengargoyle m: my $i = 1,2,3; my %h; %h{$i} = 'foo'; say %h{$i}; 01:15
camelia rakudo-moar 36c4c6: OUTPUT«WARNINGS:␤Useless use of constant integer 2 in sink context (line 1)␤Useless use of constant integer 3 in sink context (line 1)␤foo␤»
zengargoyle m: my $i = (1,2,3); my %h; %h{$i} = 'foo'; say %h{$i}; 01:16
camelia rakudo-moar 36c4c6: OUTPUT«foo␤»
zengargoyle m: my $i = (1,2,3); my %h; %h{$i} = 'foo'; say %h{$i}:exits;
camelia rakudo-moar 36c4c6: OUTPUT«Unexpected named parameter 'exits' passed␤ in block <unit> at /tmp/y01kgnyyER:1␤␤»
zengargoyle m: my $i = (1,2,3); my %h; %h{$i} = 'foo'; say %h{$i}:exists;
camelia rakudo-moar 36c4c6: OUTPUT«(False False False)␤»
flussence m: say :{ [1,2,3] => 'foo' }.perl;
camelia rakudo-moar 36c4c6: OUTPUT«:{[1, 2, 3] => "foo"}␤»
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zengargoyle what's the : there? 01:17
flussence m: my %h{Array} = [1,2,3] => "foo"; say %h{[1,2,3]};
camelia rakudo-moar 36c4c6: OUTPUT«Type check failed in binding key; expected Array but got Int␤ in block <unit> at /tmp/duz4BOA0AS:1␤␤»
flussence the : means "don't coerce keys to Str by default" 01:18
m: my %h{Array} = [1,2,3] => "foo"; say %h{$[1,2,3]};
camelia rakudo-moar 36c4c6: OUTPUT«(Any)␤»
flussence m: my %h{Array} = [1,2,3] => "foo"; say %h{[1,2,3].item};
camelia rakudo-moar 36c4c6: OUTPUT«(Any)␤»
flussence m: my %h{Array} = [1,2,3] => "foo"; say %h.perl;
camelia rakudo-moar 36c4c6: OUTPUT«(my Any %{Array} = [1, 2, 3] => "foo")␤»
flussence m: my %h{Array} = [1,2,3] => "foo"; say %h{%h.keys[0]}; 01:19
camelia rakudo-moar 36c4c6: OUTPUT«Type check failed in binding key; expected Array but got Int␤ in block <unit> at /tmp/qS7TuNMzTE:1␤␤»
flussence well that's awkward...
zengargoyle how would : work in general like %h:{$something} ? 01:20
psch zengargoyle: no, :{} is the shorthand for %{Any}
zengargoyle ah
flussence if you want to use a named hash var, just do "my %h{Any}".
zengargoyle m: my $i = (1,2,3); my %h{Any}; %h{$i} = 'foo'; say %h{$i}:exists; 01:21
camelia rakudo-moar 36c4c6: OUTPUT«(False False False)␤»
psch (where '%{Any}' is actually somewhat distractingly shortened)
zengargoyle how do i keep $i from turning into a slice with :exists?
psch m: (my %{Any} = { &infix:<+> => 1 }).keys[0].WHAT.say
camelia rakudo-moar 36c4c6: OUTPUT«Potential difficulties:␤ Useless use of hash composer on right side of hash assignment; did you mean := instead?␤ at /tmp/hSpvsrzbnb:1␤ ------> 3(my %{Any} = { &infix:<+> => 1 }7⏏5).keys[0].WHAT.say␤Sub+{<anon|57909456>}+{Precedence}…» 01:22
psch m: (my %(){Any} = { &infix:<+> => 1 }).keys[0].WHAT.say
camelia rakudo-moar 36c4c6: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5===␤The () shape syntax in hash declarations is reserved␤at /tmp/pVCmFNy1JV:1␤------> 3(my %(7⏏5){Any} = { &infix:<+> => 1 }).keys[0].WH␤Other potential difficulties:␤ Useless use of hash composer on right side of hash ass…»
psch yeah, it doesn't work like that...
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zengargoyle i was fine with it stringifying, but then it sliced... 01:22
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psch zengargoyle: i'd say report this 01:23
m: my $i = (1,2,3); my %h{Any}; %h{$i} = 'foo'; say %h.EXISTS-KEY($i) # this works
camelia rakudo-moar 36c4c6: OUTPUT«True␤»
zengargoyle ended up doing something like %hash{"$i"}
psch and %h{$key} should be equivalent, barring any design concerns
zengargoyle: to clarify, please open an RT ticket
zengargoyle also seems to behave differently than %h<<$i>>
BenGoldberg m: (my % {Any} = ( &infix:<+> => 1 )).keys[0].WHAT.say
camelia rakudo-moar 36c4c6: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/m_vtOg4f1t␤Unexpected block in infix position (missing statement control word before the expression?)␤at /tmp/m_vtOg4f1t:1␤------> 3(my %7⏏5 {Any} = ( &infix:<+> => 1 )).keys[0].WH␤ expecting a…»
BenGoldberg m: (my % = ( &infix:<+> => 1 )).keys[0].WHAT.say 01:24
camelia rakudo-moar 36c4c6: OUTPUT«Sub+{<anon|57909456>}+{Precedence} object coerced to string (please use .gist or .perl to do that) in block <unit> at /tmp/HgttH4iHj8:1␤(Str)␤»
zengargoyle psch: will do in a bit after coming up with a test case of some sort.
psch zengargoyle: fwiw, the bit you're tried with camelia seems sufficient to showcase the WAT 01:25
zengargoyle: as in, assigning to the key $i works, but fetching it doesn't
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zengargoyle cool, i still take it the %h{Any} part is important as well. 01:25
psch just stuff everything into the ticket :P 01:26
zengargoyle :)
heh, test case breaks Test 01:40
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zengargoyle rakudobug filed. 02:12
konobi pmurias: oh sorry... I'm generally available during PST. 02:14
pmurias: assuming we can get a 1-on-1 chat... i think we can get the node stuff cleared... I know how it all works. 02:15
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masak good morning, #perl6 02:22
konobi where is jnthn these days? 02:23
masak you mean, like, geographically?
masak .oO( physical location! how quaint! )
konobi masak: more TZ wise 02:24
=0P
masak oh. he's in CET, still.
which is UTC+1 in the winter. 02:25
konobi rgr
masak I had a random thought about typecasting. so, I'm reading this book on algebra, and it said something like "in a legalistic sense, the real number c ∈ ℝ is a different mathematical object than the constant polynomial c ∈ ℝ[X] -- but we're not going to be sticklers so you'll see the former sometimes when it's clear that the latter is intended" 02:28
and I just thought, hm, that has happened to me too. 02:29
in programming.
so -- this is wildly conjectural, and may be a really bad and silly idea for reasons that I don't see right now. caveat emptor.
but, let's say we had a phenomenon called "type subsumption" (NB: masak's made up name. maybe this exists and is called something better) 02:30
I'll give two examples:
(a) in 007, we often end up creating identifiers out of strings. it looks like this: Q::Identifier("foo"). there's a strong natural temptation to just use "foo" where Q::Identifier("foo") was expected. type subsumption would notice the "have Str, want Q::Identifier" situation, and automatically type-cast (in this case, wrap) the Str into a Q::Identifier 02:31
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masak (b) the Perl 6 FAQ of people wanting to `my Rat $r = 7` (Int ~~> Rat) and `my Num $n = 5/2` (Rat ~~> Num) is a type subsumption situation. people's intuition yell at them that it's *one* number line and those types may not be subclasses of each other in the OO sense, but they sure are subsumable in the ways shown. 02:33
I can see jnthn's objection already -- that this would be an epicycle and Yet Another Exception on the type system, degrading it further. and I agree, I think. 02:35
but maybe it should be a pragma? or a module in the ecosystem. something that allows you to predeclare "I'm willing to take a performance hit on typechecking so that I don't have to cast these things manually" 02:36
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AlexDaniel m: my Num $n = (5/2).Num; say $n; # a bit annoying indeed, but not much 02:40
camelia rakudo-moar 36c4c6: OUTPUT«2.5␤»
masak I'm fully aware of the "it's not hard to do the explicit cast" argument. 02:41
there seems to be a vocal contingent that isn't satisfied with that, though. and I kind of understand them.
it does somehow feel like stopping short of the expected levels of excellence and DWIM. 02:42
AlexDaniel I think that it is more “annoying” than “not much”, so I pretty much agree
psch .u ℝ
yoleaux U+211D DOUBLE-STRUCK CAPITAL R [Lu] (ℝ)
psch i don't know what |R[X] is supposed to mean 02:43
(where |R is ℝ)
masak psch: it's the ring of polynomials over ℝ in one unknown X
psch ah, my ring intuition is underdeveloped, i might read up on that tomorrow 02:44
oh wait
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psch is that just any polynomial that has one unknown 02:44
masak yes
with real coefficients
psch hmm
masak and "ring" here just means "you can + and *, and it works like you'd hope" 02:45
psch yeah, i know algebraic rings
masak then you've arrived already :)
psch still, i'll have to think about it :P
i'll be back with potential insight tomorrow o/ 02:46
masak well, do you agree that 5 and Polynomial([5]) are incompatible types on the face of it?
psch i reserve the right to agree or not agree tomorrow, i need rest :)
masak sure thing
ugexe io::socket::async with a sync wrapper + io::socket::ssl, but i can't figure out a better way to handle a byte count request greater than what is left to still be read other than to read 1 byte at a time (and its crushing performance) gist.github.com/ugexe/71d82eb4bb5653125bd8
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masak the test file t/spec/S17-scheduler/at.rakudo.moar aborts here after 'ok 15': "Method 'cancel' not found for invocant of class 'Any'" 03:14
similarly, t/spec/S32-array/pop.rakudo.moar aborts after 'not ok 34': "Method 'Int' not found for invocant of class 'Any'" 03:15
apart from that, my spectest run today is clean. 03:16
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masak "It’d be nice, to eventually see the day where JavaScript is able to precisely compute decimal arithmetic as well as able to represent large integers safely." -- heh. sounds familiar somehow. :P -- ponyfoo.com/articles/es6-number-im...s-in-depth 03:22
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atweiden i'm getting unexpected results when passing a regex with a closure: gist.github.com/atweiden/ce8aa39e506ebb969898 05:04
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atweiden is this the correct way to grep where $name is of type Regex? @people.grep({ .name ~~ $name }) 05:06
TimToady that should work 05:09
masak looks fine, yes
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kmel hello 07:18
masak ahoj, kmel 07:19
kmel hiya masak
this piece of code is not returning any value: 07:20
class Human { has $!name; method name { self.name; } }; my $john = Human.new(name => 'John'); say $john.name;
i know the . twigil will automatically declare an accessor for me, but i was trying to see what happens if i declare one myself. 07:21
dalek kudo/nom: 40de1a0 | TimToady++ | src/Perl6/Grammar.nqp:
support autogen on sigilless and &[] forms too
ast: e348d4f | TimToady++ | S03-metaops/ (6 files):
test autogen on sigilless and &[] forms
masak kmel: it's an infinite loop
kmel the above code goes into infinite loop 07:22
masak kmel: `self.name` means "call the method name"
kmel: the method that statement is in, that is
kmel: you probably meant `$!name`, not `self.name`
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masak kmel: another, shorter way of doing what you want is `has $.name;` with a dot 07:22
then you don't need to write the getter method yourself -- Perl 6 does it for you 07:23
TimToady you can still override if you declare with .
masak also, if you use ! in the attr declaration, then you cannot pass it into (the default) .new the way you do now
m: say <a b c> >>~>> "foo"
camelia rakudo-moar 36c4c6: OUTPUT«(afoo bfoo cfoo)␤»
masak m: say (:a, :b, :c) >>~>> "foo" 07:24
camelia rakudo-moar 36c4c6: OUTPUT«Cannot modify an immutable Pair␤ in block <unit> at /tmp/6Y7aczZpV1:1␤␤»
masak I don't understand this error -- could someone enlighten me?
m: say :a ~ "foo"
camelia rakudo-moar 36c4c6: OUTPUT«a Truefoo␤»
kmel m: class Human { has $!name; method name { $!name; } }; my $john = Human.new(name => 'John'); say $john.name; 07:25
camelia rakudo-moar 36c4c6: OUTPUT«(Any)␤»
Hotkeys m: say [~] (:a, "foo")
camelia rakudo-moar 36c4c6: OUTPUT«a Truefoo␤»
kmel m: class Human { has $.name; method name { $!name; } }; my $john = Human.new(name => 'John'); say $john.name;
camelia rakudo-moar 36c4c6: OUTPUT«John␤»
kmel thanks masak and TimToady 07:26
Hotkeys m: say (:a, :b, :c) >>~>> ("foo", "foo", "foo")
camelia rakudo-moar 36c4c6: OUTPUT«Cannot modify an immutable Pair␤ in block <unit> at /tmp/yxKlVUI6eQ:1␤␤»
masak kmel: the above method overriding works, but it's redundant because Perl 6 already gives you that
m: class Human { has $.name }; my $john = Human.new(name => 'John'); say $john.name 07:27
camelia rakudo-moar 36c4c6: OUTPUT«John␤»
TimToady m: say (:a, :b, :c) X~ "foo"
camelia rakudo-moar 36c4c6: OUTPUT«(a Truefoo b Truefoo c Truefoo)␤»
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TimToady seems specific to hypers 07:27
kmel yes masak but the one above doesn't work
m: class Human { has $!name; method name { $!name; } }; my $john = Human.new(name => 'John'); say $john.name;
camelia rakudo-moar 36c4c6: OUTPUT«(Any)␤»
kmel it seems i have to declare it with the . twigil and then override it
TimToady yes, he just said you need a . to initialize in new 07:28
masak I did say that :) 07:29
ShimmerFairy kmel: you actually don't need to define that 'method name' for a $.name declaration
TimToady kmel said that too :) 07:30
masak submits >>~>> rakudobug
kmel yes ShimmerFairy I was trying to define it myself (the rationale being a case where i need to override accessors) 07:31
ShimmerFairy kmel: sure, nothing wrong with providing different accessors, just mentioning that the specific example shown here is redundant :) 07:32
kmel ShimmerFairy oh yes definetly! 07:33
masak .oO( not only redundant, but redundant! ) 07:34
Hotkeys oops I forgot to run the rakudobrew build in the magical visual studio prompt 07:36
kmel m: say 'kmel is too lazy to provide a comprehensible example so he just wrote a redundant method';
camelia rakudo-moar 36c4c6: OUTPUT«kmel is too lazy to provide a comprehensible example so he just wrote a redundant method␤»
kmel I hear laziness is a good thing?
masak depends on the laziness ;) 07:38
Hotkeys meanwhile on my vps
Makefile:427: recipe for target 'CORE.setting.moarvm' failed
kmel masak ;)
Hotkeys my computer got through that stage though 07:40
wonder why my vps is getting angry
kmel what is considered more idiomatic 07:42
this: class Human { has $.age; method assess-eligibility {if $!age < 21 {'No'} else {'Yes'}}}
or this: class Human { has $.age; method assess-eligibility {if self.age < 21 {'No'} else {'Yes'}}}
TimToady --> zzz & 07:43
Hotkeys I want to say the former, but I'm no expert 07:45
masak I find myself using either more or less interchangeably. 07:48
they *do* have a semantic difference: if you subclass Human and provide an overridden method `age`, the second variant will pick up the overridden method. 07:49
kmel indeed
masak so in a sense it depends what you want to happen in that case. but I find that most of the time I don't prepare classes for being overridden like that, although maybe I should.
Hotkeys would using a ternary instead of an if be less idiomatic?
Hotkeys likes ternaries
kmel Hotkeys ternary? 07:50
masak from a Smalltalk "late-bind all the things" point of view, you ought to use the method form
Hotkeys class Human { has $.age; method assess-eligibility { $!age < 21 ?? 'Yes' !! 'No' }}
masak I'd do the ternary there
I always do when it's about a returned value
Hotkeys plus you get to get rid of a few curlies
masak oh, and another variant is `$.age` -- which means the same as `self.age` 07:51
Hotkeys so that would get picked up on an override?
masak yes 07:52
because `self.age` and `$.age` are interchangeable, modulo some itemization, maybe
kmel i like the ternary thing
Hotkeys yeah nice and clean and generally readable unless you chain them like a madman 07:53
masak easiest to think of ?? !! as an if statement but for expressions 07:54
if you start chaining, then probably what you want is a small given/when
Hotkeys doing some stackoverflow codegolf and happy to report you can still make gross looking code in perl 6 07:55
@*ARGS[0].trans(/\d/=>{[~](0..$/)},/<:L>/=>{[~] samecase("a",~$/)..~$/}).say
what a beauty 07:56
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kmel Hotkeys are you trying to scare me with this code ^ 07:57
because i am :(
Hotkeys it's really not super complicated
just looks like it in one line
masak kmel: the thing to know is that "golf" is for people who like to compress code to as few characters as possible.
nine Is it true that I cannot use a custom .new of a Perl 6 object from NQP? 07:58
masak kmel: the above code can certainly be written more clearly if that is the goal.
Woodi hallo #perl6 :)
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kmel masak: i see 07:59
thanks for the explanation
Hotkeys here it is expanded out a bit pastebin.com/38TBK0fj
basically it replaces all digits in the string with 0..digit 08:00
and all letters with a..letter, in the same case
I'm sure someone more savvy might be able to save a few characters somewhere in there 08:01
but that's the best i could do
I actually was able to get it to that size because I saw someone talking about the samecase function in here just before I did it 08:02
otherwise I would've just matched each case separately
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Woodi masak: about [something like] subsumptions & just my subjective impresion: pre GLR lists features was tangled with sugared syntax, now we have more clear "rules", etc but I somehow think sugar syntaxes aka user-friendly-DWIMs are implicitly prohibited... 08:03
kmel i still have a lot to learn.
Hotkeys anyone know why I'm getting this error building rakudo w/ rakudobrew
Makefile:427: recipe for target 'CORE.setting.moarvm' failed
on Ubuntu 15.04
nine Hotkeys: can you paste the full rakudobrew output on gist.github.com? 08:04
Woodi masak: so, i think "sugar" syntax should be allowed on top of the language, somehow. and obviously proverbial jnthn++ is right about language but sugar coating users want is from other "layer"...
Hotkeys the whole thing or just the relevant section
nine Hotkeys: can't hurt to have the whole thing 08:05
Hotkeys alright one minute 08:08
masak Woodi: it's weird to me to think of this as "sugar" (because it actually changes semantics, not syntax) -- but I think I see your point. 08:11
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Woodi also I think i realy hate "casting". probably becouse a) I don't know/learn where to put it; b) it's SO UGLY in any language I seen so far... 08:32
when moust-common-case is well known then some DWIM could be handy instead of "use cast, always"... 08:34
Hotkeys nine: gist.github.com/johnspurr/934c87ecac2f799dc49e 08:35
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masak Woodi: arguing the other side, though; there is a clear sense in which every implicit casting degrades the ability of the type system to flag up type errors. 08:36
Woodi masak: yes and no 08:37
Hotkeys It gets a little bit angry in a few places
But it only gets really angry at the end
Woodi yes - what you said; no - becouse sugar layer should be "invisible" for language layer 08:38
llfourn Woodi: isn't that what coercions like Int() is for?
masak Woodi: I'm not sure what you mean.
Woodi llfourn: we thinking about not using implicit casting here :) 08:39
nine Hotkeys: This is strange: "Stage parse : Killed"
Hotkeys: could it be that it runs into some resource limit? Maybe it uses too much memory? 08:40
Woodi masak: i understans "sugar" as something what is automatically un-golfed as it is parsed into proper language. so that sugar do not degrade anything
masak I wasn't talking about implicit casting at all. subsumption would likely be governed by the target type declaring some method or other, like `method subsume(Int $n) { $n.Rat }`
nine Hotkeys: stage parse can eat a GB or two of RAM
masak Woodi: right, "sugar" is a syntactic thing. the subsumption we're talking about is not.
Hotkeys Oh
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Woodi even ingy Hotkeys last gist there are many warning in MoarVM compilation becouse someone do not put casting :) 08:41
Hotkeys It *is* only a baby vpa
Vps
Maybe it is running out mem
Woodi masak: probably, I just thinked it is similiar thing :)
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Hotkeys Cab I compile it for Ubuntu on my windows machine 08:42
nine Hotkeys: I don't think so, no.
Hotkeys Darn 08:43
nine Hotkeys: maybe you can add some swap on your Vps?
Hotkeys I suppose I could 08:44
nine Ok, how can I get at CompUnit::Handle from nqp? I get the impression that gethllsym finds only symbols that were added from nqp with bindhllsym.
Hotkeys I'll do it tomorrow
Because I'm in bed and can't be bothered to set up ssh keys with my phone right now 08:45
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nine Hotkeys: or today and let it compile over night. Using swap for this will probably make it extremely slow ;) 08:45
Hotkeys Having perl 6 on my vps isn't time sensitive :p 08:46
Just wanted it for fiddling around
Maybe making an irc bot for funsies
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Woodi m: my Rat $a = 7 08:58
camelia rakudo-moar 40de1a: OUTPUT«Type check failed in assignment to $a; expected Rat but got Int␤ in block <unit> at /tmp/ZcbOWJJHUy:1␤␤»
Woodi for me at declaration time it should just work...
masak Woodi: I think the word you're looking for is "convenience", not "sugar" 09:00
Woodi: "at declaration time"? what about `my $n1 = 7; my Rat $n2 = $n1` ?
Woodi masak: 'my Rat .+' is just better&complete notation for cast then: my Rat = (Rat) $n1 :) 09:02
masak: yes, ATM I do not see difference between sugar and convenience... 09:03
*then my Rat $n2 = $n1
grr... 09:04
masak "sugar" is when there's a short/nice form of some feature, and the longer form works just the same. I guess you could argue that the *lack of typecasting* (i.e. the empty) string counts as a kind of sugar, but I don't like to think of it as that. 09:05
Woodi: `my Rat $n2` means this: "I want the compiler and runtime to flag up an error whenever someone puts a value in $n2 that is not a Rat". that's what type-checking is. 09:06
this is what needs to be understood in order to understand why auto-casting stuff degrades the type-checking. 09:07
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Woodi masak: ok, so let's: my Rat $a = <Int>+; work as lazy users want and: = $b as failure :) 09:10
kmel what is the use of class variables?
in practice 09:11
Hotkeys Gives your classes something to hold
masak Woodi: I think that would be easier to arrange, yes. I'm still not sure that's a good solution, though. or if people would just become annoyed at new inconsistency, and that'd become a new FAQ. 09:12
kmel: "class variables"?
kmel masak: class attributes 09:13
masak kmel: not much of a use case in well-designed OO, I'd say. thing is, the world is full of real-world compromises. 09:15
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masak Woodi: also, for which pairs of types would this be made to work? Int ~~> Rat and Rat ~~> Num, for sure. what about Real ~~> Complex? what about Bool ~~> Int? Int ~~> Bool? Str ~~> Numeric? 09:16
kmel doc.perl6.org/language/classtut#Static_fields%3F
masak there's some kind of slippery slipe there.
kmel: hm, "fields" is not a Perl OO term. that should probably be changed in the classtut.
we call them "attributes", like you did above. 09:17
"fields" from a Perl perspective sounds like something in a column in a record you read from a file :)
kmel well since you will be changing the classtut can you provide a more straightforward example for class attributes? 09:20
as someone who is new to Perl 6, i didn't really understand the example 09:21
masak what non-contrived example would you suggest? :)
masak hasn't looked at the current example 09:22
Woodi masak: Int -> Rat -> Num should work. declaration: my [Int|Rat|Num] $a is realy clear, IMO 09:23
kmel hehe, i don't know something a la java
an attribute that holds how many objects of that class were created 09:24
each time you call new() it gets incremented 09:25
Woodi masak: Str into number and Number into Bool is probably language design.
nine Finally! my $CompUnitHandle := nqp::who($*W.find_symbol(["CompUnit"])).AT-KEY('Handle'); 09:26
Woodi nine: but weekend just started ;) 09:27
nine Woodi: my plan is not to spend all of the weekend on this ;) 09:29
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Woodi btw. it is crazy that automating casting do not work like it do in human brain... 09:41
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Woodi U: Cortana, how many thieves goes through that window ? C: Errr... I don't realy know what to say... U: WHAT ?? C: You see, first was two but one left with something and there was only one... So my co-procesor send me 1.5 but I have humans as Int type... 09:45
lizmat good *, #perl6! 09:51
dalek kudo/curli: 4ddc391 | (Stefan Seifert)++ | src/ (3 files):
Have load_module return a CompUnit::Handle istead of a bare Stash

This is a step towards moving more functionality into CompUnit::Handle.
09:51 vendethiel joined
lizmat m: dd Pair.new 09:51
camelia rakudo-moar 40de1a: OUTPUT«Pair $var = Mu => Mu␤»
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lizmat masak: ^^^ is the source of #126510 09:52
synbot6 Link: rt.perl.org/rt3/Public/Bug/Display...?id=126510
lizmat I'm not sure what a Pair.new would need to do without having been specifified a key or value 09:53
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nine Ah, even easier: $*W.find_symbol(["CompUnit", "Handle"]); 09:58
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RabidGravy tadzik, I've done another PR for JSON::Unmarshal github.com/tadzik/JSON-Unmarshal/pull/6 when you have a moment :) 10:02
masak kmel: your class attribute musings reminded me of strangelyconsistent.org/blog/i-can-haz-constant 10:03
kmel masak: i am reading it 10:04
masak kmel: notably, "When I learned about `static` fields in Java, even the examples were contrived."
(and then the example you suggested above, which I can't recall needing in practice.)
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masak m: class Car { my $.cars-produced; submethod BUILD { $!cars-produced++ } }; Car.new xx 3; say Car.cars-produced 10:05
camelia rakudo-moar 40de1a: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/TAvDBBaLhV␤Attribute $!cars-produced not declared in class Car␤at /tmp/TAvDBBaLhV:1␤------> 3 submethod BUILD { $!cars-produced++ } }7⏏5; Car.new xx 3; say Car.cars-produced␤ expecting any of:…»
masak hm. 10:06
kmel m: class Human {has $.name;my $.counter = 0;method new($name) {self.bless(:$name);Human.counter++;}}my $a = Human.new('a');my $b = Human.new('b');say Human.counter;
camelia rakudo-moar 40de1a: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/ByT5NCxJij␤Strange text after block (missing semicolon or comma?)␤at /tmp/ByT5NCxJij:1␤------> 3) {self.bless(:$name);Human.counter++;}}7⏏5my $a = Human.new('a');my $b = Human.new␤ expecting an…»
masak m: class Car { my $cars-produced; submethod BUILD { $cars-produced++ }; method cars-produced { $cars-produced } }; Car.new xx 3; say Car.cars-produced 10:07
camelia rakudo-moar 40de1a: OUTPUT«3␤»
masak ...I thought I distinctly remembered `my $.cars-produced` giving me both the `my` variable and the accessor.
kmel m: class Human {has $.name; my $.counter = 0; method new($name) { self.bless(:$name); Human.counter++; } }; my $a = Human.new('a'); my $b = Human.new('b'); say Human.counter;
camelia rakudo-moar 40de1a: OUTPUT«2␤»
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kmel masak: this is the only example i learned while taking a java course. I don't know if it can be used in practice or not. I'll take your world for it. 10:09
lizmat masak: re #126510 , I think the problem is really that the hyper expects something Iterable, and a Pair is not
synbot6 Link: rt.perl.org/rt3/Public/Bug/Display...?id=126510
masak kmel: I think the thing to understand about class-level variables is that they are morally indistinguishable from globals.
kmel: and thus have all the pitfalls and anti-patterns globals have. 10:10
kmel: I once thought I had a great use, until I wanted to test that code base. then it all broke down and turned out to be a really bad idea.
kmel: I remember mst materializing after I said that here on channel, muttering "I could have told you that" :P
lizmat: huh. I know I haven't been following along with all the "nodal" shenanigans lately, but (a) I'm not trying to iterate inside the pairs, and (b) it's talking about mutating the pair, which also I'm not. 10:12
kmel masak: ok then, class attributes are the devil :)
masak lizmat: note that it does work as advertized with X~, as TimToady showed.
lizmat: and this is from code in a production code base that used to work.
kmel masak: thanks for your explanation
lizmat masak: basically it's doing $type.new and then try to assign the result into that
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masak lizmat: even after your explanation above, I still kind of expect it to work (and I'm confused as to why mutation needs to happen) 10:13
lizmat my $type = left.WHAT; 10:14
my \result := $type.new;
result = @keys Z=> HYPER(&op, left{@keys}, right, :$dwim-left, :$dwim-right);
vendethiel RabidGravy: second-class multi dispatch (as in, pattern matching :P) is also pretty great 10:15
moritz maybe coercion could make it work? 10:17
isBEKaml OHHAI, folks -- been a while, it's good to see all that activity around bugsquashing on RT :-)
moritz (left.WHAT)(@keys Z=> HYPER(&op, left{@keys})
lizmat perhaps the problem is caused by Pair being Associative ? 10:18
Woodi about globals: do function + global varible [+ programming discipline] is equivalent to closure ?
moritz Woodi: no 10:19
Woodi: with a global variable you only ever get one instance of a cosure
Woodi moritz: ah, right
isBEKaml There used to be a --with-moar option on nqp's configure script, right? Or am I not remembering correctly? 10:20
masak isBEKaml: --gen-moar ? 10:21
isBEKaml masak: no, I have a locally built moar. I was asking about pointing nqp's configure script to the local one.
masak isBEKaml: ah. that one I don't know. 10:22
moritz isBEKaml: iirc you can specify a --prefix. If it finds a bin/moar in $prefix, it takes that
isBEKaml masak: or is that --prefix and configure would detect it?
moritz: ah, thank you
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flussence wonders how much fallout there'd be if untyped scalars in strict mode behaved like C's "auto" keyword, taking the type of the first thing assigned to them. 10:34
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lizmat flussence: there is no such thing as an untyped scalar 10:35
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lizmat the default type is Any 10:35
flussence fine, un*declared*-type scalar then :) 10:36
lizmat that would make Any special in the handling of assignments
I'm not seeing that happening easily :-( 10:37
flussence yeah, seems awkward. 10:38
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flussence I can see something like "auto" being useful, but I'm not sure where it'd fit in what we currently have. my ::T $a maybe? 10:39
tadzik RabidGravy: hah, I see them accumulating as october is ending :D 10:41
RabidGravy: do you have some project where I could help with two things? :D
ShimmerFairy flussence: I could only see that being sane if it only happened in a declaration, i.e. my $a = 42; but not my $a; $a = 42; . Even then I get the feeling it'd cause quite a few problems :) 10:42
RabidGravy tadzik, write more stuff! :)
ShimmerFairy At the very least, it definitely shouldn't be part of the "strict" pragma. Probably an ecosystem pragma would be my choice :) .oO( use type-inference; ) 10:43
tadzik RabidGravy: that's my problem! I'm writing stuff, instead of fixing other people's stuff :P
flussence I guess what I described was more Haskell-y than C-y...
leont Or C++11-y 10:44
RabidGravy the reason for the fixorification of JSON::Unmarshal is that I want to round trip JSON data through classes and I want that for the META6 parser which is in itself a test of sorts for some bigger things
:)
ShimmerFairy flussence: perhaps, I just came up with the phrase "type inference" when trying to figure out what you'd call the pragma :)
RabidGravy I'm having brane fade. How do I what I want to do with something like: 10:47
m: multi sub foo(Any $type) { say "any Any" }; multi sub foo(Any $type where { $_ =:= Any }) { say "reeally any" }; foo(Int); foo(Any);
camelia rakudo-moar 40de1a: OUTPUT«any Any␤any Any␤»
RabidGravy which doesn't actually work as I thought
lizmat m: multi sub foo(Any $type) { say "any Any" }; multi sub foo(Any $type where { $_ === Any }) { say "reeally any" }; foo(Int); foo(Any); 10:48
camelia rakudo-moar 40de1a: OUTPUT«any Any␤reeally any␤»
flussence m: multi sub foo(Any $type) { say "any Any" }; multi sub foo(Any $type where { .^mro[0] =:= Any }) { say "reeally any" }; foo(Int); foo(Any);
camelia rakudo-moar 40de1a: OUTPUT«any Any␤reeally any␤»
ShimmerFairy =:= isn't unless you want the exact same object, as in basically comparing pointers :) 10:49
RabidGravy cool cheers all 10:50
moritz =:= compares containers, and only falls back to object pointers when there are no containers
RabidGravy the === and =:= somewhat confuse my stupid brane 10:51
ShimmerFairy =:= only comes up if you mean very precisely this exact object. I've only ever seen it use with IterationEnd in rakudo, and haven't used it myself :)
moritz PSA: perl6.org has been accepted for the "let's encrypt" public beta. I'm trying it out now. 10:53
short downtime of the website is possible 10:54
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tadzik yay! 11:02
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dalek osystem: 7cde0fd | RabidGravy++ | META.list:
That's META.info not README.md - me--
 11:04
Woodi madness! C have alloca() ;) 11:05
flussence: in C auto varibles "takes type of assigned thing" ? 11:06
[Tux] test 50000 37.756 37.642 11:12
test-t 50000 38.745 38.631
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moritz perl6.org/ # works! 11:15
lizmat and the certificate is considered valid (well, until 29 Jan 2016 ) 11:16
moritz and according to www.ssllabs.com/ssltest/analyze.ht...Results=on quite good 11:20
RabidGravy where does module.perl6.org put the errors generating the big list of modules? 11:21
moritz RabidGravy: modules.perl6.org/log/ 11:22
RabidGravy cheers 11:23
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RabidGravy "Invalid json found at: raw.githubusercontent.com/szabgab/...META.info" - is odd as I just fed the file through json_xs and it didn't complain 11:34
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moritz HTTP request sent, awaiting response... 404 Not Found 11:38
that's what I get from that URL 11:39
maybe it doesn't catch the 404, but has an empty (or error message) response that isn't valid json?
RabidGravy that's odd
moritz that's because the default branch is "main", not "master" 11:40
in that repo
RabidGravy yeah, just noticed that 11:41
dalek osystem: ed2eb49 | moritz++ | META.list:
Fix URL to Perl6-Maven META.info
RabidGravy beat me to it 11:42
moritz RabidGravy++ # investigating
RabidGravy tony-o, I just sent PR to fix the META.info for HTML::Parser :) 11:43
and with that no errors
moritz anyway, Let's Encrypt is awesome. The tools are still a bit fragile, but all in all it works and produces good results
ShimmerFairy moritz: took a quick look and I think I'd agree. It's nice to see the ol' "spend actual money for encryption" thing wearing down :) 11:44
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lizmat hmmmm.. looks like TimToady's 40de1a05cbe786f7b3e81ae broke S03-operators/equality.t 11:51
happens in the optimizer: Cannot find method 'is_dispatcher'
in report_inevitable_dispatch_failure 11:52
lizmat hopes someone will be able to pick that up 11:54
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psch .tell masak the mathy quote seems like type unification, if anything. as in, "assume the narrower type given the wider, because of the established context" 11:58
yoleaux psch: I'll pass your message to masak.
psch .tell masak the equivalent would be if 'my Any $x = 5; $x.VAR.of.say' printed (Int) 11:59
yoleaux psch: I'll pass your message to masak.
psch .tell masak as for the other direction, which is the interesting case, what i'd think workable there was a pragma that gave the user a lexical Any+{Numeric}, (or maybe a NumIntRat), which could be thought as subsuming the type, but it would also mean making all of Int, Num, Rat equivalent behind the scenes 12:00
yoleaux psch: I'll pass your message to masak.
psch .tell masak as in, any var declared as Num, Int or Rat actually has a .VAR.of of (IntNumRat) behind the scenes, which is polymorph with exactly those types 12:01
yoleaux psch: I'll pass your message to masak.
psch .tell masak s/has/would have given this pragma/ 12:02
yoleaux psch: I'll pass your message to masak.
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RabidGravy tadzik, J::U also has trouble with Rat attributes, I'll probably send "one multi for each numeric type" later :) 12:02
psch .tekk masak, actually, i'm wrong about the relationship between c ∈ ℝ and p ∈ ℝ[X] 12:06
.tell masak, actually, i'm wrong about the relationship between c ∈ ℝ and p ∈ ℝ[X]
yoleaux psch: What kind of a name is "masak,"?!
psch .tell masak actually, i'm wrong about the relationship between c ∈ ℝ and p ∈ ℝ[X]
yoleaux ...
psch :P
gosh yoleaux
RabidGravy right off out for a bit 12:08
moritz fwiw the "Cannot find method 'is_dispatcher'" errors comes from %opts<signature> being NQPMu 12:09
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moritz ah no, I checked the wrong variable :( 12:10
psch m: say infix:<!=>(False) 12:11
camelia rakudo-moar 40de1a: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Cannot find method 'is_dispatcher'␤»
psch autogen of meta ops isn't working right apparently
.tell masak actually, i'm wrong about the relationship between c ∈ ℝ and p ∈ ℝ[X], which throws some of my argument out of the window... more thinking :) 12:12
yoleaux ...
psch ah, so it means 5 tells per target
moritz ah, it calls is_dispatcher on a Block
and I guess it used to be a Routine
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psch m: Routine.^can('is_dispatcher').say 12:13
camelia rakudo-moar 40de1a: OUTPUT«(<anon>)␤»
psch m: Block.^can('is_dispatcher').say
camelia rakudo-moar 40de1a: OUTPUT«()␤»
moritz problem is, I don't understand the code that TimToady++ touched
I can try to make the optimizer robuster, and only call .is_dispatcher if it exists 12:14
or I can give Block an is_dispatcher method that returns False 12:15
psch m: say &infix:<!=>.WHAT
camelia rakudo-moar 40de1a: OUTPUT«(Sub+{<anon|38966432>}+{Precedence})␤»
moritz but it feels like fixing the problem at the wrong end
psch m: my $a = 5; say &infix:<+=>($a, 2); say $a
camelia rakudo-moar 40de1a: OUTPUT«7␤7␤»
psch m: my $a = 5; say infix:<+=>($a, 2); say $a
camelia rakudo-moar 40de1a: OUTPUT«7␤7␤»
dalek kudo/nom: 8b9124e | moritz++ | src/Perl6/Optimizer.nqp:
Make optimizer more robust

Block has no method is_dispatcher, but it seems we now report
  "will never work" errors on blocks too.
Maybe this is the wrong approach, and the codegen should be changed to produce routines where blocks appear now; if so, somebody else must do that :-/		 12:18
moritz ===SORRY!===
Calling (Bool) will never work with declared signature (\a, \b)
at t/spec/S03-operators/equality.t:47
so the actual problem isn't fixed yet; it's just the error reporting for the actual problem that was fixed 12:19
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kmel m: class Human { has $.name; }; my $john = Human.new(name =>'John',age => 23,); say $john; 12:20
camelia rakudo-moar 40de1a: OUTPUT«Human.new(name => "John")␤»
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kmel is it normal that this ^ doesn't give an error? 12:20
moritz kmel: yes; it makes subclassing much easier
kmel moritz: by subclassing you mean inheritance? 12:23
moritz kmel: yes 12:25
psch m: say METAOP_NEGATE(&infix:<=>)
camelia rakudo-moar 40de1a: OUTPUT«-> \a, \b { #`(Block|80989192) ... }␤»
psch that's the Block that has no dispatcher
moritz I figured it doesn't hurt if the optimizer is more robust 12:26
psch m: say METAOP_NEGATE(&infix:<==>)
camelia rakudo-moar 40de1a: OUTPUT«-> \a, \b { #`(Block|80186616) ... }␤»
psch m: say METAOP_REDUCE_LEFT(&infix:<==>) 12:27
camelia rakudo-moar 40de1a: OUTPUT«sub (+ is raw) { #`(Sub|73972768) ... }␤»
psch m: say METAOP_REDUCE_LEFT(&infix:<==>)()
camelia rakudo-moar 40de1a: OUTPUT«True␤»
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psch m: say METAOP_NEGATE(&infix:<==>)() 12:27
camelia rakudo-moar 40de1a: OUTPUT«Too few positionals passed; expected 2 arguments but got 0␤ in block <unit> at /tmp/ODFsE4vjWQ:1␤␤»
psch moritz: yeah, i agree
ShimmerFairy Assuming it wouldn't break everything, I'd suggest an is_dispatcher method on all Callable things, since any one of them could potentially be queried about dispatching, methinks :) 12:29
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psch ohh 12:34
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psch well, what happens is that we parse infix:<!=> via the add_mystery, which auto-generates a call to METAOP_NEGATE(&infix:<=>) 12:40
kmel moritz: thanks
psch but on one hand that's bogus in this specific case, because we actually mean METAOP_NEGATE(&infix:<==>)
and on the other hand we actually mean &infix:<!=>($?) from Numeric.pm 12:41
ShimmerFairy psch: could METAOP_NEGATE benefit generally from an error message concerning &infix:<=>, by any chance? I don't know how likely it would happen outside of core, but I figure it might be nice to explain weird misinterpretations of != :) 12:44
("use either &infix:<!=> or negate &infix:<==> instead" ?) 12:45
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psch ShimmerFairy: the normal way of producing METAOP_NEGATE(&infix:<=>) already complains, and whoever actually uses literal METAOP_NEGATE in their code gets a DIHWIDT, at least from me 12:47
m: my $a ![=] False; # this is the complaint
camelia rakudo-moar 40de1a: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/UYGqwLbG1r␤Cannot negate = because list assignment operators are too fiddly␤at /tmp/UYGqwLbG1r:1␤------> 3my $a ![=]7⏏5 False; # this is the complaint␤»
dalek ast: 7e90f63 | lizmat++ | S32-list/repeated.t:
Add tests for "repeated"
 12:49
kudo/nom: 920bffa | lizmat++ | src/core/Str.pm:
Remove superfluous return
kudo/nom: 51886a4 | lizmat++ | src/core/Any-iterable-methods.pm:
Add sub version of "repeated"
ShimmerFairy psch: why's it called "list" assignment, though? 12:50
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psch m: my ($a, $b) = 1, 2; say $a,$b # because it is 12:54
camelia rakudo-moar 40de1a: OUTPUT«12␤»
psch m: my $a; say infix:<++>($a)
camelia rakudo-moar 40de1a: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/jbWf01vwM5␤Undeclared routine:␤ infix:<++> used at line 1. Did you mean 'infix:<+|>', 'infix:<∖>', 'infix:<lt>', 'infix:<eq>'?␤␤»
ShimmerFairy not necessarily, though, so I think it's LTA to be specific there :)
psch ShimmerFairy: feel free to open a ticket
moritz ... with an example of better wording 12:55
psch the infix:<++> actually makes me think that infix:<!=> shouldn't be legal
'cause that's what causes not finding the candidate from Numeric.pm, which is why we autogen something that can't work
eh, well maybe just "doesn't" instead of "can't" 12:56
std: infix:<X+>
camelia std 28329a7: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5===␤Undeclared routine:␤ 'infix:<X+>' used at line 1␤Check failed␤FAILED 00:00 134m␤»
ShimmerFairy moritz: it's just be to remove the "list" part; I've honestly never heard to &infix:<=> referred to as anything but "the assignment operator", no qualification. The use of the word "list" makes me think you're trying ([=] 1,2,3) or something, that's how unusual it is :)
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moritz ShimmerFairy: the problem is that = comes in two different flavors and precedences 12:57
ShimmerFairy moritz: is there any harm in the error messaging generalizing to cover either assign op, though?
moritz ShimmerFairy: there an item assignment with tighter precedence than the = list item assignment 12:58
ShimmerFairy: the error message just contains the name of the precedence category; we can't have both precedence categories be called just "assignment" without causing ambiguous messages
ShimmerFairy moritz: Ah, it pulls the name from somewhere, that explains it :) . I thought it was just part of a larger constant string. 12:59
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dalek kudo/nom: eb0f0c3 | lizmat++ | t/spectest.data:
Run S32-list/repeated.t tests
 13:02
kudo/nom: 447069b | lizmat++ | src/core/Any-iterable-methods.pm:
Make reduce/produce multi's

To allow for easier extensibility, no functional change
13:12 AlexDaniel joined
dalek c: f65e122 | lizmat++ | doc/Type/List.pod:
Document :with on List.unique
 13:17
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jdv79 is there any way to check for a priv method besides catching the exception on not found? 13:23
dalek c: 1bcaafd | lizmat++ | doc/Type/List.pod:
Add documentation for List.repeated
 13:24
lizmat wasn't there a ^private_methods ?
jdv79 obj!?meth and obj.can('!meth') don't seem to work - perhaps they should though
lizmat: i don't see it
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lizmat m: class A { method !a {} }; say A.^private_method_table.values 13:26
camelia rakudo-moar 447069: OUTPUT«(a)␤»
13:26 weihan left
lizmat I guess we could add it to Perl6::Metamodel::PrivateMethodContainer 13:26
ShimmerFairy jdv79: actually, '!meth' would mean a method literally called that. Check out all the cases in rakudo where Cursors are called with methods like $cur.'!foo_cursor'() as an example (because the Cursor stuff is almost entirely NQP's version, and apparently NQP doesn't do private methods like P6) :) 13:33
jdv79 ew
ShimmerFairy m: class Foo { method ::('!bar') { say "HI!" } }; Foo.'!bar'() # how to accomplish the same in P6 :P 13:36
camelia rakudo-moar 447069: OUTPUT«HI!␤»
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RabidGravy boom! 13:41
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nine New mission objective: eliminate stash_hash 13:50
Those differences between NQP modules and Perl 6 modules cost me far too much time. 13:51
dalek ast: 69d0c5e | lizmat++ | S32-list/head.t:
Add tests for List.head
 13:54
lizmat nine++
13:55 firstdayonthejob left
dalek kudo/nom: 734b239 | lizmat++ | src/core/Any-iterable-methods.pm:
Fix some issues with List.head/tail
 14:01
kudo/nom: 0f155be | lizmat++ | t/spectest.data:
Run tests for List.head
14:06 diana_olhovik left
masak computer; messages 14:11
yoleaux 11:58Z <psch> masak: the mathy quote seems like type unification, if anything. as in, "assume the narrower type given the wider, because of the established context"
11:59Z <psch> masak: the equivalent would be if 'my Any $x = 5; $x.VAR.of.say' printed (Int)
12:00Z <psch> masak: as for the other direction, which is the interesting case, what i'd think workable there was a pragma that gave the user a lexical Any+{Numeric}, (or maybe a NumIntRat), which could be thought as subsuming the type, but it would also mean making all of Int, Num, Rat equivalent behind the scenes
12:01Z <psch> masak: as in, any var declared as Num, Int or Rat actually has a .VAR.of of (IntNumRat) behind the scenes, which is polymorph with exactly those types
12:02Z <psch> masak: s/has/would have given this pragma/
12:06Z <psch> masak: actually, i'm wrong about the relationship between c ∈ ℝ and p ∈ ℝ[X]
12:12Z <psch> masak: actually, i'm wrong about the relationship between c ∈ ℝ and p ∈ ℝ[X], which throws some of my argument out of the window... more thinking :)
masak yeah.
the more I think about subsumption, the less enthralled I am by the whole notion. :/ 14:12
psch oh, yoleaux just says "..." after the 5th... 14:20
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psch www.ale.cs.toronto.edu/docs/man/ale...ode21.html say the conjectural IntNumRat would be a unified type... 14:24
dalek ast: 35abb70 | lizmat++ | S32-list/head.t:
Add test for infinite range (lazy list)
ast: 6dcad7e | lizmat++ | S32-list/tail.t:
Add tests for List.tail
psch (indirectly, of course :P )
in any case, i don't think that it would make sense on a type level 14:25
as in, unifying all the Numeric types is probably the WAT-iest we could do
ShimmerFairy If this is about the dreaded Inf, then I'm half-expecting we'll "give up" at some point and just make it a special keyword :P
psch my Int $a = 5; my Rat $b = 7 # both $a and $b would be .VAR.of IntRatNum... 14:26
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psch ShimmerFairy: no, it's about e.g. Rat $b = 7 14:27
ShimmerFairy: although Inf would fall under there as well, potentially
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ShimmerFairy Hm... well, what if we had .narrow and .widen methods on the numeric types? (If it were actually possible, then multi sub infix:<=>(Rat $a is rw, Int $b) { ... } would be another choice) 14:29
There could also perhaps be some kind of literal form that said "whatever kind of datatype can handle this number", like say my Rat $b = {{{{7}}}} (finally unquotes aren't the ugliest thing :P) 14:31
dalek kudo/nom: c539156 | lizmat++ | src/core/Any-iterable-methods.pm:
Fix some fails spotted during test construction
 14:32
kudo/nom: 3f2546e | lizmat++ | t/spectest.data:
Run List.tail tests
psch ShimmerFairy: what's the return type of Rat.narrow, Num or Int? the first that's possible?
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psch hm, if anything that would have to be .widen($target-type) i guess 14:34
or .narrow($target-type), even
ShimmerFairy psch: I imagine it'd be kinda recursive in nature, perhaps class Complex { method narrow(:$recursing) { self.Real.narrow(:recursing) // ($recursing ?? Complex !! self) } } at first glance
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ShimmerFairy psch: basically, "Complex is narrowed to a Real type and then tries to narrow that (and so on), returning the last successful conversion" 14:35
psch ShimmerFairy: but there are Rats than can only be narrowed to one of Int and Num 14:36
ShimmerFairy: so we'd have to branch there, and give up on a linear narrowing path 14:37
ShimmerFairy psch: wouldn't Rat.Num.Int handle the to-Int case? Or is the precision issue non-negligible
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ShimmerFairy psch: my only concrete idea is that each narrow method just narrows down just one step, and then calls the new object's narrow to handle the rest, to avoid reinventing the whole wheel in every class :) 14:39
14:39 softmoth left
ShimmerFairy (though various types could of course short-circuit where it's clearly better than a bunch of nesting calls on likely temporary objects ☺) 14:41
masak
psch m: my $rat = ((2**53)+15/1); say $rat.Num.Int; say $rat.Int;
camelia rakudo-moar 0f155b: OUTPUT«9007199254741008␤9007199254741007␤»
psch m: my $rat = ((2**53)+1/1); say $rat.Num.Int; say $rat.Int; # actual first integer this happens at
camelia rakudo-moar 0f155b: OUTPUT«9007199254740992␤9007199254740993␤»
psch ShimmerFairy: so if that goes Rat => Num => Int we lose something 14:42
ShimmerFairy I had a feeling that was the case.
psch biab &
dalek c: 80f4023 | lizmat++ | doc/Type/List.pod:
Document grep :k,:kv,:p,:v, remove grep-index
 14:44
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dalek c: 90ea0cd | lizmat++ | doc/Type/List.pod:
Document List.first :k,:kv,:p,:end

And remove documentation for first-index / last-index		 14:58
kudo/curli: 3062530 | (Stefan Seifert)++ | src/ (4 files):
CompUnit::Handle export-sub and export-package

We need to handle NQP and Perl 6 modules. So far we have standardized on he low level way of NQP modules. The new architecture goes in the other direction and tries to use high level objects as much as possible.
Loading the BOOTSTRAP is now done by separate code, since CompUnit::Handle is not yet available there. But there we don't need most of the features do_import provides, so code duplication can be kept quite minimal.		 14:59
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lizmat nine++ 15:00
15:02 isBEKaml left 15:03 apotheon left
dalek c: f0ce101 | lizmat++ | doc/Type/List.pod:
Provide documentation for List.head/tail
 15:06
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RabidGravy tadzik, sent another PR to fix JSON::Unmarshal for Rat attributes 15:11
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perl We need to organise PerlCon just like python community 15:12
tadzik there's tons of YAPCs all around :) 15:13
RabidGravy not to mention, more frequent local workshops
perl But I did not find hands on course on perl like python on the conference. 15:14
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lizmat www.yapcna.org/yn2015/event/1707 # YAPC::NA this year 15:15
act.perl-workshop.ch/spw2015/event/1739 # SPW this year 15:17
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nine How can I iterate over a Perl 6 List in NQP? 15:29
FROGGS_ nine: you can call methods as usual 15:31
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nine So I just do $EXPORTHOW.pairs.map(-> { ... });? 15:32
lizmat nine: fwiw, if you need Perl 6 objects in NQP, feels to me that code should live in Perl 6 :-) 15:33
nine lizmat: one step at a time :) But I admit, you may be onto something there. 15:34
perl far from being general purpose language, is perl 6 planning to be data centric too like python :-) 15:41
nine perl: in which way is Python data centric? 15:42
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perl nine with the packages like pandas, numpy,scipy, matplotlib, seaborn, bokeh, pytables 15:43
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TimToady Perl 6 is planning to be everything-centric. 15:44
RabidGravy perl, that's a narrow, domain specific, view of "data-centric" 15:45
perl TimToady My requirements fulfilled if I can read, manipulate, visualise and analyse data with perl 6 in blazing speed. Currently I use R (www.r-project.org/). 15:47
RabidGravy may be yeah as i data analyst. 15:48
TimToady we plan to do that well, in addition to everything else :)
jdv79 sounds like a pitch in an infomercial ..."and it even does julian fries" 15:49
TimToady
.oO(gregorian fries)
15:50 softmoth joined
lizmat imagines monks in boiling fat 15:50
nine lizmat: come on, we haven't had dinner yet :) 15:51
lizmat must have been listening to heavy metal too much today :-) 15:52
flussence @perl: perl6 is planning to be data-centric like perl5, by having the good parts of PDL built in.
(kinda ironic that python has a dozen different ways to do it but Perl has one clear winner...) 15:54
RabidGravy I'd go a FFT library if anyone gets bored by the way 15:55
TimToady lizmat: Nil is primarily a singleton undef object, not a type, so I don't really want to see parens around it
lizmat TimToady: ok, then I will revert that and the associated tests 15:56
TimToady thanks
dalek kudo/nom: aa2e51f | lizmat++ | src/core/IO/Handle.pm:
Fix infiniloop on IO::Handle.split.elems
ast: c051708 | lizmat++ | S0 (4 files):
Revert "Fix fallout of Nil.gist change"

This reverts commit 4cfd97480f9c95073fb141c0f7b7b68d4c29c4a1.		 15:59
ast: e829bdc | lizmat++ | S02-types/WHICH.t:
Test Nil completely separately
 16:02
c: 2fc4ce7 | lizmat++ | doc/Type/List.pod:
Adjust for (Nil) to Nil change
 16:03
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dalek kudo/nom: e25a857 | lizmat++ | src/core/Nil.pm:
Re-instate special status of Nil wrt .gist
 16:06
lizmat TimToady: I think I've covered all the necessary changes now 16:07
TimToady yeah, Nil has to have a type, so it kind of acts as its own type, but it's really more in the category of True and False
16:07 finanalyst left
lizmat maybe Nil should be a Bool:U ? 16:08
TimToady maybe not
lizmat ah, no, that would break too much, I'd think
:-)
TimToady there is nothing else in the language that represents simply the concept of "missing value", which is why we have it 16:09
dalek kudo/curli: 7441aa3 | (Stefan Seifert)++ | src/ (2 files):
Move some EXPORTHOW handling into CompUnit::Handle

CompUnit::Handle is now complete. Loading the BOOTSTRAP is completely separated from loading normal modules.		 16:10
lizmat nine++ # can't be said enough 16:11
nine Ok, back to the "what is the next logical step" problem ;)
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dalek kudo/curli: 4295edd | (Stefan Seifert)++ | / (4 files):
Add the CompUnit::Repository::Installable role
 16:16
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cygx o/ 16:18
m: role Foo { say $?CLASS }; class Bar does Foo {} 16:19
camelia rakudo-moar 3f2546: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Cannot find method 'collisions'␤»
ugexe theoretically should io::socket::async be considered an io::socket?
cygx what's the proper way to get at the clas a role is mixed into?
*class
FROGGS_ m: role Foo { say ::?CLASS }; class Bar does Foo {} 16:20
camelia rakudo-moar 3f2546: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Cannot find method 'collisions'␤»
ugexe m: class Foo { }; role Bar { say $?CLASS; }; my $x = Foo.new but Bar;
camelia rakudo-moar 3f2546: OUTPUT«(Foo+{Bar})␤»
ugexe hmm
timotimo i don't really have enough energy to backlog right now :| 16:21
but i think my next project will be an awesome error message for this case:
m: my Rat $foo = 5;
camelia rakudo-moar 3f2546: OUTPUT«Type check failed in assignment to $foo; expected Rat but got Int␤ in block <unit> at /tmp/6rLicQmPJR:1␤␤»
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nine timotimo: is the for -> while optimization actually back already? 16:22
timotimo not yet 16:23
the patch i currently have breaks do for ^10 { $_ } and friends
and i'm not sure how to detect we'll want a sunk for loop instead of a non-sunk one
do you have an idea for that?
until now, we'd been checking against Range.map.sink 16:24
but the sink has disappeared into the p6for and seems to be unconditional (but it still works?)
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RabidGravy ugexe, the touchstone would be whether the ::Async is a superset of the socket interface 16:24
dalek ast: 130fb95 | lizmat++ | S16-io/split.t:
Add tests for IO::Handle.split
 16:25
zostay is there test file that camelia can read from? 16:26
timotimo camelia will refuse open() straight-out
but it has something that gets passed to stdin
zostay mkay... well, let's see if it works then... 16:27
timotimo m: .lines.say
camelia rakudo-moar e25a85: OUTPUT«Method 'lines' not found for invocant of class 'Any'␤ in block <unit> at /tmp/fsitPKurU0:1␤␤»
timotimo er
m: lines.say
camelia rakudo-moar e25a85: OUTPUT«(Céad slán ag sléibhte maorga Chontae Dhún na nGall Agus dhá chéad slán ag an Eireagal ard ina stua os cionn caor is coll; Nuair a ghluais mise thart le Loch Dhún Lúich’ go ciúin sa ghleann ina luí I mo dhiaidh bhí gleanntáin ghlas’ Ghaoth…»
TimToady -1 for unimaginative use of accents 16:28
zengargoyle goes ARRGGHH again, minor change and... This Seq has already been iterated, and its values consumed
zostay m: react { whenever $*STDIN.Supply(:bin) -> $v { $v.chars.say; LAST { say "done" } } }
camelia rakudo-moar e25a85: OUTPUT«Dynamic variable $*STDIN not found␤ in block <unit> at /tmp/lZwbp1Bd2B:1␤␤»
timotimo .u combining
yoleaux U+0300 COMBINING GRAVE ACCENT [Mn] (◌̀)
U+0301 COMBINING ACUTE ACCENT [Mn] (◌́) 16:29
U+0302 COMBINING CIRCUMFLEX ACCENT [Mn] (◌̂)
timotimo m: say lines[0].comb X~ (<\c[COMBINING GRAVE ACCENT] \c[COMBINING ACUTE ACCENT] \c[COMBINING CIRCUMFLEX ACCENT]>.roll(*)
camelia rakudo-moar e25a85: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/teQJK_jfjy␤Unable to parse expression in parenthesized expression; couldn't find final ')' ␤at /tmp/teQJK_jfjy:1␤------> 3\c[COMBINING CIRCUMFLEX ACCENT]>.roll(*)7⏏5<EOL>␤ expecting any of:␤ …»
TimToady m: say 'o⃝'.chars 16:30
camelia rakudo-moar e25a85: OUTPUT«1␤»
timotimo m: say lines[0].comb X~ (<\c[COMBINING GRAVE ACCENT] \c[COMBINING ACUTE ACCENT] \c[COMBINING CIRCUMFLEX ACCENT]>.roll(*))
camelia rakudo-moar e25a85: OUTPUT«(...)␤»
timotimo m: .say for lines[0].comb X~ (<\c[COMBINING GRAVE ACCENT] \c[COMBINING ACUTE ACCENT] \c[COMBINING CIRCUMFLEX ACCENT]>.roll(*))
oooh, not x
m: .say for lines[0].comb Z~ (<\c[COMBINING GRAVE ACCENT] \c[COMBINING ACUTE ACCENT] \c[COMBINING CIRCUMFLEX ACCENT]>.roll(*))
sorry camelia
camelia rakudo-moar e25a85: OUTPUT«(timeout)CCIRCUMFLEX␤CACCENT]␤CCIRCUMFLEX␤C\c[COMBINING␤CACCENT]␤CACUTE␤C\c[COMBINING␤CACUTE␤CACCENT]␤CACUTE␤CCIRCUMFLEX␤C\c[COMBINING␤CGRAVE␤C\c[COMBINING␤CCIRCUMFLEX␤CACCENT]␤CACCENT]␤CACCENT]␤CCIRCUMFLEX␤CACCENT]␤…»
rakudo-moar e25a85: OUTPUT«CCIRCUMFLEX␤éGRAVE␤aACUTE␤d\c[COMBINING␤ ACCENT]␤sCIRCUMFLEX␤l\c[COMBINING␤áACUTE␤n\c[COMBINING␤ \c[COMBINING␤aACUTE␤gGRAVE␤ ACCENT]␤s\c[COMBINING␤lACCENT]␤éACCENT]␤i\c[COMBINING␤b\c[COMBINING␤h\c[COMBINING␤t\c[COMB…»
16:31 tokuhirom left
[Tux] Ŝȫ ṁṹċḧ ƒüṇ ṡėèĩǹģ ƥėơƥļȇ ƥļăỹɨṋḡ ŵíťḩ Ūȵǐĉȫďe čḫărąƈʈḝṟş ☺ 16:31
timotimo m: .say for lines[0].comb Z~ («\c[COMBINING GRAVE ACCENT] \c[COMBINING ACUTE ACCENT] \c[COMBINING CIRCUMFLEX ACCENT]».roll(*))
camelia rakudo-moar e25a85: OUTPUT«C̀␤é̀␤à␤d̀␤ ̀␤s̀␤l̀␤á̀␤ǹ␤ ̀␤à␤g̀␤ ̀␤s̀␤l̀␤é̀␤ì␤b̀␤h̀␤t̀␤è␤ ̀␤m̀␤à␤ò␤r̀␤g̀␤à␤ ̀␤C̀␤h̀␤ò␤ǹ␤t̀␤à␤è␤ ̀␤D̀␤h̀␤ú̀␤ǹ␤ ̀␤ǹ␤à␤ ̀…»
timotimo m: .print for lines[0].comb Z~ («\c[COMBINING GRAVE ACCENT] \c[COMBINING ACUTE ACCENT] \c[COMBINING CIRCUMFLEX ACCENT]».roll(*))
camelia rakudo-moar e25a85: OUTPUT«C̀é̀àd̀ ̀s̀l̀á̀ǹ ̀àg̀ ̀s̀l̀é̀ìb̀h̀t̀è ̀m̀àòr̀g̀à ̀C̀h̀òǹt̀àè ̀D̀h̀ú̀ǹ ̀ǹà ̀ǹG̀àl̀l̀»
ugexe RabidGravy: its just missing a recv/read method. that part i did myself but getting OpenSSL to accept it as IO::Socket doesn't work because its loaded first and thus seems to ignore my `my role IO::Socket { }`
zostay m: react { while my $b = read(10) { $b.bytes.say }; say "done" }; 16:33
camelia rakudo-moar e25a85: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/lx_0MD7FYf␤Undeclared routine:␤ read used at line 1␤␤»
ugexe also it would be nice to have a way to get x number of bytes from an async interface, although thats probably some antipattern 16:34
dalek kudo/nom: a05867b | lizmat++ | t/spectest.data:
Run the IO::Handle.split tests
zostay ugexe: $handle.Supply(42, :bin) should read 42 bytes at a time async
ugexe gist.github.com/ugexe/71d82eb4bb5653125bd8 16:35
sockets
dalek kudo/curli: 54ed37b | (Stefan Seifert)++ | / (5 files):
CompUnitRepo::Local::File -> CompUnit::Repository::FileSystem
cygx m: gist.github.com/cygx/bf35c7a258bbfbe8965d
camelia rakudo-moar e25a85: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤While looking for 'NQP.moarvm': no such file or directory␤»
lizmat zostay: that would be :size(42)
FROGGS_ cygx: there is no NQP package 16:36
cygx: but a NQPHLL or so
zostay lizmat: thx 16:37
16:37 risou left
cygx FROGGS_: it works locally 16:38
timotimo nine: i should just put the patch up on a branch so you can have a closer look, eh? gimme a minute 16:39
timotimo boots up laptop
dalek kudo/optimize_for_again: 61d40a9 | timotimo++ | src/Perl6/Optimizer.nqp:
WIP for -> loop; doesn't handle value-returning for yet
 16:40
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ugexe but im not using a regular socket as a supply, im making an async socket into a sync'd one with a recv 16:43
vendethiel github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/61...53281R1060 how does this handles redefined .map?
ugexe whenever $!socket.bytes-supply.Supply(:size($bytes), :bin) for instance doesn't give me :$size bytes
lizmat ugexe: bytes-supply is a Supply, not an IO::Handle 16:45
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dalek kudo-star-daily: 2926b0a | coke++ | log/ (9 files):
today (automated commit)
 16:47
rl6-roast-data: 4147c3f | coke++ | / (9 files):
today (automated commit)
ugexe right. bytes-supply is to imply its not a regular socket with handle
lizmat ugexe: I guess we don't have a way to buffer bytes in a Supply chain yet
timotimo nine: perhaps it's a super simple tweak, but i'm not seeing it yet, and my brane is still clouded from my illness >_< 16:48
dalek ast: 355384b | lizmat++ | S16-io/split.t:
Add some tests for splitting on ""
 16:49
lizmat ugexe: I guess we want something like Supply.buffer
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ugexe that would be nice 16:50
zostay ugexe: i'm working on something similar right now trying to make a parser that emits HTTP request frames from an HTTP socket, but i'm having trouble receiving done when the socket closes/test file ends 16:51
ugexe zostay: the gist above closes the socket when its done. with openssl it also requires only reading 1 byte at a time 16:52
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timotimo twitter.com/BobRossGameDev - this is pretty good 16:54
16:54 perl left
timotimo "Don’t forget to comment your code. It’s important to let imagination guide you, but the comments are there to help you find your way home." 16:54
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zostay well regardless of number of bytes read, my program is halting in the react block for some reason 16:55
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zostay s/halting/hanging/ 16:56
ugexe i had that problem too, i had to add an extra done() outside the whenever with the size comparison
timotimo oooh! perl6.org now has letsencrypt! sweet! 16:58
moritz++ 16:59
zostay interesting... my Supply should be emitting done, i'm trying to catch it with a LAST { } block, but it never does execute the code just before my Supply calls done never seems to be reached
it's not a an exception either, afaict, i'm trying to catch and print anything but getting nothing so far
leont async is hard to get to work properly :-/ 17:01
ugexe m: my $s = (1,2,3,4).Supply; $s.tap: {.say; LAST { say "DONE"; }; }; $s.done
camelia rakudo-moar a05867: OUTPUT«1␤2␤3␤4␤»
lizmat ugexe: I don't think that's supposed to work like that 17:02
m: my $s = (1,2,3,4).Supply; $s.tap: {.say }, :done({ say "DONE" }) }; $s.done 17:03
camelia rakudo-moar a05867: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/jJoXluT9Qr␤Unexpected closing bracket␤at /tmp/jJoXluT9Qr:1␤------> 3 $s.tap: {.say }, :done({ say "DONE" }) 7⏏5}; $s.done␤»
lizmat m: my $s = (1,2,3,4).Supply; $s.tap: {.say }, :done({ say "DONE" }); $s.done
camelia rakudo-moar a05867: OUTPUT«1␤2␤3␤4␤DONE␤DONE␤»
ugexe i dont neccesarily think so either, its just narrowing the scope of zostay's problem
lizmat intresting
zostay right, you don't have to emit the extra done, Supply.from-list does that alreay
it feels like my issue is specifically related to I/O, but i could be wrong about that 17:04
i don't know why it would be, just that it feels like it
but i'm learning lots about it in the meantime ;) 17:05
"Experience is that which you get when you don't get what you want."
timotimo what if you want to get experience?
RabidGravy take a bunch of acid and try and debug php cde 17:06
timotimo someone ported CDE to php? 17:07
RabidGravy the crap desktop environment
leont zostay: given that IME experience Proc::Async is also buggy around done()s, I'm not surprised
dalek c: b852f37 | lizmat++ | doc/Type/IO/Handle.pod:
Add minimal explanation about IO::Handle.split
leont Though the issue I'm hitting there is very different 17:08
zostay nah, i'm doing something wrong... just wrote a super simple program and it all worked fine... i'll find it ;) 17:09
perl6 -e 'my $h = "t/data/http-1.0-dumb.txt".IO.open(:r); my $s = supply { while my $buf = $h.read(100) { emit($buf); }; done }; react { whenever $s { .bytes.say; LAST { say "DONE" } } }'
that program works exactly as expected, so something about my parsing layer must be bugging it up 17:10
TimToady psch: btw, we already have a .narrow method 17:12
m: say 4.2.narrow.WHAT
camelia rakudo-moar a05867: OUTPUT«(Rat)␤»
TimToady m: say 4.0.narrow.WHAT
camelia rakudo-moar a05867: OUTPUT«(Int)␤»
TimToady m: say <1+0i>.narrow.WHAT 17:13
camelia rakudo-moar a05867: OUTPUT«(Int)␤»
AlexDaniel TimToady: any news on qx issue? :) 17:15
TimToady thinks qx// should default to run semantics (that is, it should split words before running), and is still trying to decide whether it's okay to have a corresponding qx routine that means what you mean by runout 17:16
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TimToady even though it's not really a quote 17:17
or we could use something different like sys() 17:18
AlexDaniel TimToady: if it's not, then why have it?
TimToady to have a non-ugly name for runout 17:19
zengargoyle has discovered %hash{Any} doesn't do what i thought it did
lizmat zengargoyle: what did you think it should do ? 17:20
TimToady from the user point of view, they just want to call something in the system and get its results, like a function call
all this IO rigamarole is just clutter to such a user
AlexDaniel TimToady: yes!
dalek kudo/nom: 078d0be | lizmat++ | src/core/IO/Handle.pm:
Fix IO::Handle.comb("x") thinko
 17:21
zengargoyle m: my %i{Any}; my $x = (1,2,3); my $y = (1,2,3); %i{$x} = $x; say %i{$y}; 17:22
camelia rakudo-moar a05867: OUTPUT«(Any)␤»
zengargoyle like use eqv for lookup 17:23
lizmat m: say (1,2,3).WHICH, (1,2,3).WHICH # the reason
camelia rakudo-moar a05867: OUTPUT«List|71203312List|71203368␤»
zengargoyle yeah, i sorta grokked that
lizmat my %i{Any}; my $x = set(1,2,3); my $y = set(1,2,3); %i{$x} = $x; say %i{$y};
m: my %i{Any}; my $x = set(1,2,3); my $y = set(1,2,3); %i{$x} = $x; say %i{$y}; 17:24
camelia rakudo-moar a05867: OUTPUT«set(3, 1, 2)␤»
AlexDaniel I think that I don't mind if it is called differently. Although I kinda liked the way runout can be switched to run when you start needing IO stuff (and same with shellout/shell)
zengargoyle (1,2,3) is more point-like in this case
AlexDaniel TimToady: but if qx// should default to run semantics, I don't really understand how could perl6 split it into separate arguments 17:25
like, once you've put it into one string, it is pretty hard to untangle it back
and solve it by using quotes, but in reality it only adds more pitfalls… 17:26
shells solve it*
17:27 TimToady left
zengargoyle and in the end ~$x as the key is probably as good as any other uniqification, just feels icky to go from List to Str to List 17:27
zostay it is a hash, you can always define your own Map with a different key lookup
hash kind of implies linearization of the keys so you can bucket them 17:28
zengargoyle yeah
17:28 kanishka left 17:29 TimToady joined
TimToady use program <ls>; my $x = ls('-l'); # another approach 17:31
AlexDaniel that's kinda interesting
but you still have to separate your arguments somehow
zostay ls(<-l -a /tmp/*>); 17:33
AlexDaniel was going to suggest rout and sout, but then figured that “rout” is a bad idea as well…
ruout, shout?…
TimToady no "out"
it's just a "return value"
I was thinking qx// form would imply « » parsing 17:34
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AlexDaniel TimToady: yeah, but it breaks if you forget quotes. Although it is pretty “shelly”, I was hoping that there's a way to avoid it 17:35
TimToady well, shell breaks if you forget quotes too, but the stakes are higher 17:36
AlexDaniel in that sense “run” is perfect. Either you put commas or it will not compile
and if you don't want to put commas, OK, there's « » 17:37
TimToady well, and qr// is just run(« », :out)
er, qx
TimToady though qr// would be nice assocition with run, till he remembered that P5 has a completely different qr that would be confusing 17:38
*ciation 17:39
AlexDaniel TimToady: uhm, yeah, but nobody in their sane mind will type that :out).out.slurp-rest thing…
TimToady *thought
gah
anyway, we want to optimize for the common case here, and getting the output of a command is one of the easy things that should be easy, not just one of the hard things that should be possible 17:40
AlexDaniel nods
TimToady so I think a qr that is relatively safe but mostly dwims is a good compromise
gah, qx
[Coke] r: sub foo($a) { sub bar {} }; my $a=foo(1); 17:41
camelia ( no output )
..rakudo-jvm a05867: OUTPUT«java.lang.NullPointerException␤ in block <unit> at /tmp/tmpfile:1␤␤»
lizmat [Coke]: that is a known issue, several places in the core work around that 17:42
r: sub foo($a) { my $ = sub bar {} }; my $a=foo(1);
camelia ( no output )
lizmat [Coke] ^^^
it needs a container on JVM somehwo
17:43 Alina-malina joined
AlexDaniel TimToady: but I'm thinking, what if you want to do something beyond that? Like, ok, here you have some code that runs a command and gets its output, great. Now you just want to specify the input, and boom, the whole thing just balloons more that you'd expect it to. That's ok in other languages, but perl always felt very concise to me, I'm not sure if I will like to see it other way in this case. 17:49
but qx// that does run(«…», :out).out.slurp-rest is great until you need something more advanced, yes. 17:50
zengargoyle heh $input ==> qx/.../ ==> $output ? 17:52
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AlexDaniel zengargoyle: that's actually an interesting idea 17:52
TimToady that's another possibility
zengargoyle is the ==> thing real? i've never actually tried to use it or know how to. :P 17:53
TimToady maybe for the line-oriented output
[Coke] lizmat: there's code in roast that expects it to work, so the work around needs to be fixed.
17:53 protium left
AlexDaniel zengargoyle: yeah, in fact <== is there too :) 17:53
$input ==> qx/…/ ==> grep /…/ ==> map … ==> qx/…/ … 17:54
hmmm
lizmat [Coke]: totally agree, but my JVM foo is very limited
[Coke]: not sure if there's a ticket for it 17:55
dalek kudo/curli: 22f7412 | (Stefan Seifert)++ | / (5 files):
CompUnitRepo::Local::Installation -> CompUnit::Repository::Installation
17:57 Taller1 is now known as Taller2, Taller2 is now known as Taller1
dalek ast: e80cb40 | coke++ | S02-magicals/sub.t:
use new ticket ID (RT #126517), fudge more
 17:58
synbot6 Link: rt.perl.org/rt3/Public/Bug/Display...?id=126517
[Coke] lizmat: ^^ 17:59
18:00 Alina-malina left
[Coke] r: my $foo = [42 ]; $foo[1] = $foo; say $foo.perl; 18:01
camelia rakudo-moar 078d0b: OUTPUT«(my \Array_140697060236336 = $[42, Array_140697060236336])␤»
..rakudo-jvm 078d0b: OUTPUT«(my \Array_229292020 = $[42, Array_229292020])␤»
[Coke] r: my $foo = [42 ]; $foo[1] = $foo; say $foo.perl; say $foo.perl.EVAL 18:02
camelia rakudo-jvm 078d0b: OUTPUT«(my \Array_897186540 = $[42, Array_897186540])␤java.lang.NullPointerException␤ in block <unit> at EVAL_0:1␤ in block <unit> at /tmp/tmpfile:1␤␤»
..rakudo-moar 078d0b: OUTPUT«(my \Array_140538609984720 = $[42, Array_140538609984720])␤[42 (Mu)]␤»
18:02 Alina-malina joined
lizmat [Coke]++ 18:03
brb
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dalek ast: 0dc483b | coke++ | S02-names-vars/list_array_perl.t:
Fudge for RT #126518
 18:05
synbot6 Link: rt.perl.org/rt3/Public/Bug/Display...?id=126518
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pmurias konobi: ping 18:08
dalek ast: 5116515 | coke++ | S02-names-vars/names.t:
Reopen and fudge for JVM, dying there.
 18:09
zostay yep, tracked down my react block issues 18:10
i was trying to execute two whenever blocks concurrently, but react {} ensures all the whenevers within run on a single thread
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lizmat off to see a spectre of bond& 18:17
zostay start { } block to the rescue... \o/ 18:19
timotimo zostay: why don't you just use supply instead of react? 18:21
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timotimo then you can await both supplies to finish afterwards 18:22
dalek kudo/curli: 24af750 | (Stefan Seifert)++ | src/core/CompUnit (3 files):
Move loading a module from a file name to Repository::FileSystem

This moves the first code out of the candidates method and out of CompUnitRepo::Locally for better separation between loading from a given path and loading a DependencySpecification.		 18:23
kudo/nom: 6abf2bf | TimToady++ | src/ (2 files):
handle autogen of inequalities better
 18:26
ast: d62254b | TimToady++ | S03-operators/equality.t:
test all variants of == and != for 0 and 1-ary
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psch TimToady: why is &-less form for autogen'd operators legal, but not for declared ones? 18:28
TimToady example?
psch m: say infix:<+>(1, 2) 18:29
camelia rakudo-moar 078d0b: OUTPUT«3␤»
psch huh
well well
what did i do wrong then earlier
ah, nevermind, it probably was not-an-infix then
yeah, i did a stupid earlier today and remember that just now 18:30
so, yeah, nevermind
TimToady is not good at minding at the best of times
18:31 tokuhirom left
TimToady lunch, then halloween decor & 18:34
18:37 softmoth left
zostay timotimo: in this case, i'm chaining the supplies react <- supply <- supply... and it was hanging on the emit of the innermost supply/on the emit of the out supply/whenever of the react while it waited for the innermost to contine processing/emitting input read from a socket/file 18:40
18:40 Alina-malina left
zostay in this case, i just need to restructure the chaining so that it doesn't require a separate thread 18:41
dalek kudo/curli: b372417 | (Stefan Seifert)++ | src/core/CompUnit (4 files):
Rename $!IO to $.prefix in CompUnitRepo::Locally

  "prefix" is more descriptive, since in the case of Repository::Installation
there will be quite a few sub directories in there.
18:41 Alina-malina joined 18:44 nowan joined 18:45 cygx left, nowan left 18:46 nowan joined
dalek c: c22caba | (Lloyd Fournier)++ | doc/Type/PairMap.pod:
remove PairMap for now

It's been removed from Rakudo for a while		 18:46
c: 6b64034 | moritz++ | doc/Type/PairMap.pod:
Merge pull request #182 from LLFourn/master

remove PairMap for now
timotimo zostay: oh my 18:48
18:52 cygx joined
dalek ast: caa5704 | coke++ | S02-names-vars/perl.t:
These all pass on rakudo-moar

Remove an old questionable test		 18:53
kudo/curli: fe2f9eb | (Stefan Seifert)++ | src/core/CompUnit (2 files):
Migrate Repository::Installation::candidates code into need
 18:55
18:57 cygx left, cygx joined 18:59 Alina-malina left 19:00 jsimonet joined 19:01 tokuhirom_h joined 19:02 raiph left
konobi pmurias: howdy 19:02
19:02 cygx left
dalek ast: 5d96b33 | coke++ | S02-names-vars/perl.t:
skip, use related RT#
 19:02
konobi pmurias: so... stick all the JS files in a "lib" directory... you can just use `require('./foo')` to access them 19:04
19:06 tokuhirom_h left
[Coke] r: use Test; throws-like 'my int $a is default(42)', X::Comp::Trait::NotOnNative,type => 'is',subtype => 'default'; 19:06
camelia rakudo-moar 6abf2b: OUTPUT« 1..4␤ ok 1 - 'my int $a is default(42)' died␤ ok 2 - right exception type (X::Comp::Trait::NotOnNative)␤ ok 3 - .subtype matches default␤ ok 4 - .type matches is␤ok 1 - did we throws-like X::Comp::Trait::NotOnNative?␤»
..rakudo-jvm 6abf2b: OUTPUT« 1..4␤ not ok 1 - 'my int $a is default(42)' died␤ ␤# Failed test ''my int $a is default(42)' died'␤# at /tmp/tmpfile line 1␤ ok 2 - # SKIP Code did not die, can not check exception␤ ok 3 - # SKIP Code did not die, can not check e…»
19:07 cygx joined
dalek ast: a7cd851 | coke++ | S02-names/is_default.t:
fudge for rakudo.jvm
 19:09
19:19 cygx left
timotimo i'm not sure how to figure out how exactly a variable is declared from inside the optimizer :\ 19:26
19:27 raiph joined
timotimo with twitch's delay between chat and video, it'll be very problematic to actually succeed 19:31
er, ww
(this is about "twitch installs archlinux")
(which will start in about 30 minutes)
19:34 cygx joined, Alina-malina joined 19:35 cygx left
timotimo ah, it's just in the block's "symbol" thing 19:39
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RabidGravy tadzik, I rebased those two other PRs into github.com/tadzik/JSON-Unmarshal/pull/9 and closed them. With those the github.com/jonathanstowe/JSON-Clas...oundtrip.t passes :) 19:54
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nine timotimo: I'll probably have a look at optimize_for_again tomorrow 20:11
vendethiel timotimo: off we go! 'tis gonna be a fun install :) 20:12
psch .tell jnthn checking $cur_candidate<rwness> in Routine.analyze_dispatch seems to fail the parameter binding too early to still throw Parameter::RW, so i'm not sure where this check should happen 20:13
yoleaux psch: I'll pass your message to jnthn.
timotimo vendethiel: except the screen is black 20:15
vendethiel :[
timotimo actually, it just shows the "stream is offline" picture
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pmurias konobi: hi 20:29
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pmurias konobi: if I want to run the .js file a .p6 file is compiled to how should I require it's dependencies? 20:34
20:35 mr_ron left
konobi from within the js file 20:38
pmurias you mean I should to my own resolving and then just load th js file with an absolute path? 20:39
konobi well, your dependencies should still work the same way
pmurias same as other rakudo backends to them? 20:40
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konobi you can require nqp-js 20:41
pmurias and for something like NQPCORE.setting I should call require("nqp-js/NQPCORE.setting")? 20:42
konobi no 20:43
you probably want it to be a property of the module exports
var nqpjs = require('nqp-js'); console.log(nqpjs.NQPCORE.setting 20:44
so that'll probably want to exist in lib/index.js 20:46
pmurias you mean require('nqp-js') should always load the NQPCORE.setting? 20:47
or I should do require(nqpjs["NQPCORE.setting"]) 20:48
konobi: and what about a user defined modules. like if someone does a 'use Foo' 20:50
I could mangle the module names by turning that into require('nqp-js-Foo') 20:51
konobi within nqp-js you'll require those NQPCORE style things and addthem to module.exports
pmurias konobi: I can't do that with user written modules 20:54
konobi sure, but that's seperate to how nqp-js is used 20:55
pmurias not really, you can use your own custom setting 20:56
konobi mmm... 20:57
well, i suppose that's DI with a known default
pmurias DI = dependency injection? 20:58
konobi yup
`var njs = require('nqp-js'); var foo = new njs({ setting: ... });` 20:59
pmurias so if I want to use the MyCustomSetting where should it be searched for? 21:01
konobi well, it's going to be generated along with the initial script, right?
pmurias as a harcoded absolute path? 21:02
konobi relative
21:03 ChoHag joined
konobi require('./modules/MyCustomSetting') 21:03
pmurias: are you hoping generate the p6 script as a package? 21:04
(with nqp-js itself being a dependency for that package?) 21:05
pmurias konobi: not sure yet
currently I'm considering two options: either try to integrate with npm or just do the path resolution myself and pass an absolute path to require 21:06
konobi pmurias: how require works is pretty simple
pmurias: nodejs.org/api/modules.html explains it all 21:07
pmurias konobi: I have seen it 21:09
what I'm not sure about is how making Perl 6 modules interact with other hand written javascript code should look like 21:11
should I aim towards generating packages usable by npm
konobi I think so 21:12
that way you could have perl6 modules as dependencies
vendethiel you don't think everything should go through 6pan? 21:13
konobi this is for the js backend
vendethiel I know
konobi pmurias: and from there... you can browserify the packages to use it in browser space 21:14
vendethiel i.e. scalajs only uses sbt 21:15
well, it uses webjars as well..
pmurias konobi: I used webpack before as browserify seems to suck and insisted on parsing the generated javascript files
RabidGravy if it's going to run on node it should be packaged for npm, the poor dears wuldn't be able to install it otherwise ;-)
konobi yeah, either of those should be fine 21:16
vendethiel yeah, browserify does parse the js files
Hotkeys alrighty
put some swap on my vps
konobi yeah, it needs to so that can bundle in the right core module interfaces
21:16 Gardner left
Hotkeys lets see if I can build now 21:16
oh dang 21:17
rip those 4
RabidGravy :-\ 21:18
pmurias vendethiel: doesn't 6pan not exist yet? 21:19
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pmurias vendethiel: one option would be to avoid using the npm at all 21:21
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RabidGravy zombies! 21:22
pmurias vendethiel: the other option would be to try to make 6pan modules installable using npm 21:25
konobi pmurias: yeah... thankfully the node package model is well known now and can be used in a bunch of places
pmurias where besides the browser/node.js? just asking so I can tell my friends how nqp-js/rakudo-js will be useful 21:27
konobi there's many apps that have the ability to extend their functionality using javascript... atom, komodo, even Photoshop 21:28
also things like cordova for use on cell phones 21:29
RabidGravy CouchDB query engine
konobi postgres
dalek kudo/nom: fc8bda9 | lizmat++ | src/core/IO/Handle.pm:
Fix IO::Handle.comb thinko
 21:30
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konobi pmurias: and don't forget minecraft! 21:34
21:34 cygx joined
cygx m: gist.github.com/cygx/29dab71ed8f046511750 21:36
camelia rakudo-moar 6abf2b: OUTPUT«42␤»
pmurias konobi: having Perl 6 run in minecraft sounds like something for a really cool (lighting) talk
21:37 TEttinger joined
cygx not sure if that works by design, coincidence or a combination of both 21:37
konobi yeah, there's a server plugin called scriptcraft
uruwi Why is .roll slow? 21:41
pmurias konobi: when packaging a Rakudo/NQP module does adding a p6- prefix seem sane?
dalek ast: 25f283f | lizmat++ | S16-io/comb.t:
Add tests for IO::Handle.comb
lizmat uruwi: .roll on what ? 21:42
uruwi An array
konobi pmurias: yup, i'd think so
pmurias so Foo will be installed in node_modules as p6-Foo
lizmat uruwi: just .roll without params ?
uruwi Yes
A few minutes
lizmat what? 21:43
TimToady is it an infinite array?
pmurias konobi: is everything assumed to be part of a package in node.js land?
uruwi Oh, I was using $things.roll, not @things.roll
lizmat it should fail with X::Cannot::Lazy on anything lazy
uruwi Never mind
konobi pmurias: how do you mean? 21:44
uruwi Or, I'd rather say, ab5tract was doing that
lizmat
.oO( Emily Litella lives )
konobi pmurias: like tests, scripts, etc? 21:45
uruwi ab5tract_ * 21:46
Follow this one weird trick to improve performance!
21:47 kjs_ joined
pmurias konobi: yes 21:48
konobi: tests naturally seem to be a part of the package 21:49
konobi: but how are scripts with dependencies handled?
konobi you can add a scripts directory to the package.json 21:50
then you can use `npm run ...` to execute the script 21:51
but yeah, usually just in a scripts or bin folder
pmurias I'm not sure how make js-test should work 21:53
konobi you can configure `npm test`
thankfully we have tap
21:55 kjs_ left
pmurias the problem is that we will have the setting turned into a "node.js package", then ./nqp-js --target=js foo.t will spit out js from the test file 21:57
how is the the compiled test file supposed to know where do load the setting/runtime from?
konobi using require() 21:58
pmurias should I generate a test suit package that depends on the runtime and the compiled-setting-package?
konobi nah, i think it should just load from the lib dir 21:59
dalek kudo/nom: 79efbb1 | lizmat++ | t/spectest.data:
Run the IO::Handle.comb tests
 22:00
pmurias konobi: by making ./nqp-js emit the tests with a special path? 22:02
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rarara_ m: my $a=(1,2,3); my $b=(4,5,6); $a=($a,); say $a; $a=($b,); say $a; 22:03
camelia rakudo-moar fc8bda: OUTPUT«(\List_139899985755472 = (List_139899985755472))␤((4 5 6))␤»
konobi pmurias: mmm... not sure. maybe it's best to take baby steps... perhaps a solution will make itself apparent
rarara_ m: my $a=(1,2,3); my $b=(4,5,6); $a=($a,); say $a; $a=($b,); say $a; $b=($a,); $a=$b; say $a; 22:04
camelia rakudo-moar fc8bda: OUTPUT«(\List_140565209029464 = (List_140565209029464))␤((4 5 6))␤(\List_140565209184944 = (List_140565209184944))␤»
dalek c: 19a8c52 | lizmat++ | doc/Type/IO/Handle.pod:
Add minimal explanation about IO::Handle.comb
rarara_ m: my $a=(1,2,3); my $b=(4,5,6); $a=($a,); say $a; $a=($b,); say $a; $a=$b; say $a;
camelia rakudo-moar fc8bda: OUTPUT«(\List_140640873540360 = (List_140640873540360))␤((4 5 6))␤(4 5 6)␤»
rarara_ m: my $a=(1,2,3); my $b=(4,5,6); $a=($a,); say $a; $a=($b,); say $a; $a=($b,); say $a;
camelia rakudo-moar fc8bda: OUTPUT«(\List_140725917427328 = (List_140725917427328))␤((4 5 6))␤((4 5 6))␤»
vendethiel pmurias: www.webjars.org/ is what's using in sbt 22:05
(for scalajs)
22:06 Oatmeal left
timotimo (for science) 22:06
pmurias vendethiel: have you used it?
vendethiel pmurias: yeah
cygx FOR PONY!
vendethiel I mean, never uploaded to it, but i've used scalajs extensively, and I've never had any problems with it. But 've not actually packaged any module. 22:07
konobi npm seems a lot simplier to me 22:08
dalek ast: 109f31f | coke++ | S02-names/pseudo.t:
refudge for rakudo, open RTs
 22:10
BenGoldberg rarara_, Are you expecting perl to be confused by self-referential data structures? :)
cygx stage parse for CORE.setting seems to have doubled - is that a fluke on my machine or does anyone else see that? 22:11
[Coke] cygx: doubled since when? 22:12
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[Coke] BenGoldberg: like rt.perl.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=126518 ? :( 22:12
rarara_ BenGoldberg I had to play with this thing while I was trying to get a list as a single element of a list 22:13
dalek kudo/nom: 4c1f09d | lizmat++ | src/core/IO/Handle.pm:
Make IO::Handle.readchars a full fledged method

All part of a cunning plan :-)		 22:14
pmurias vendethiel: I should propably checkout some other languages that compile to js to steal ideas 22:16
RabidGravy cygx, the size has crept up somewhat but not doubled
vendethiel pmurias: yeah, stealing good ideas is always good
pmurias vendethiel: anything other than scalajs that I should check out?
vendethiel for the module system part, or for the alt-js in general? 22:17
pmurias alt-js
timotimo whoa
RabidGravy neigh!
22:18 mj41 left
pmurias timotimo: that's an actual language? 22:18
timotimo oh
the whoa was for liz' commit
konobi pmurias: there's asmjs 22:19
vendethiel ok. so, scalaJS is pretty good at using scala stuff, since it's just a compiler backend, much like nqp-js. languages like coffeescript because they "just are js". Opal is also pretty interesting, because it's incredibly dynamic (i.e., + and .map/.each being actual calls *or* primitives if you enable a compiler switch)
ghcjs is interesting, because of the difficulty of implementation of haskell in js (ugh, thunks. PureScript went the "easy" way, and is strict. but its module system sucks) 22:20
pmurias coffeescript and it's offspring are in the low price/little gain niche we will not be able to compete in 22:21
lizmat timotimo: whoa why ?
cygx [Coke], RabidGravy: might be something wrong with my local setup... 22:22
konobi coffeescript is a disaster anyway
vendethiel now that's harsh :(.
timotimo a cunning plan!
konobi it's true though
BenGoldberg m: my \foo = (\foo,); foo.perl.say; 22:23
camelia rakudo-moar fc8bda: OUTPUT«Cannot call method 'perl' on a null object␤ in block <unit> at /tmp/r6i7IaAHEO:1␤␤»
timotimo coffeescript is another of those languages that would be better off if they had an explicit "my"-like
BenGoldberg m: my \foo = (\foo,); foo.say;
camelia rakudo-moar fc8bda: OUTPUT«Cannot call method 'perl' on a null object␤ in block <unit> at /tmp/h7TAJ5LJSb:1␤␤»
vendethiel konobi: well, as a contributor it makes me sad
22:23 Begi1115 left
BenGoldberg m: my $foo = ($foo,42,); $foo.say; 22:23
camelia rakudo-moar fc8bda: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/NWeUBXgNlm␤Cannot use variable $foo in declaration to initialize itself␤at /tmp/NWeUBXgNlm:1␤------> 3my $foo = ($7⏏5foo,42,); $foo.say;␤ expecting any of:␤ term␤»
vendethiel the my-like is definitely true, and you're far from being the only one to think that, even between contributors. but oh well
BenGoldberg m: my \foo = (\foo,42,); foo.say;
camelia rakudo-moar fc8bda: OUTPUT«Cannot call method 'perl' on a null object␤ in block <unit> at /tmp/Kye9Ton8yn:1␤␤»
BenGoldberg m: my \foo = (\foo,42,); say foo; 22:24
camelia rakudo-moar fc8bda: OUTPUT«Cannot call method 'perl' on a null object␤ in block <unit> at /tmp/Wl88btGLSG:1␤␤»
BenGoldberg m: my \foo = (41,\foo,42,); say foo;
camelia rakudo-moar fc8bda: OUTPUT«Cannot call method 'perl' on a null object␤ in block <unit> at /tmp/y4qJAf3h2A:1␤␤»
BenGoldberg m: my \foo = (41,\foo,42,); say defined foo;
camelia rakudo-moar fc8bda: OUTPUT«True␤»
lizmat timotimo: yeah, which will fix various issues with IO::ArgFiles
BenGoldberg p6: my \foo = (41,\foo,42,); say defined foo;
camelia rakudo-moar fc8bda: OUTPUT«True␤»
timotimo nice!
yeah, ArgFiles has always been a bit weak
konobi vendethiel: better options these days anyway
vendethiel konobi: like?
konobi typescript
timotimo Kotlin 22:25
vendethiel kotlin is not stable (and brings a huge baggage). typescript is unsound... someone have them fix that, please :[
timotimo livescript?
pmurias wasn't google trying to make it sound 22:26
dalek ast: e3f1811 | coke++ | S02-types/WHICH.t:
Convert list to manual strings.

Needed so we can do some slightly tricky fudging.
ast: 2824a98 | coke++ | S02-types/WHICH.t:
Fudge for jvm, open ticket.
vendethiel livescript is pretty much dead (and I don't want to keep on being the only one trying to make stuff change)
konobi having an actual spec helps a lot
22:26 zakharyas joined
TEttinger github.com/jashkenas/coffeescript/...pile-to-JS 22:27
take your pick
vendethiel most of them aren't interesting.
timotimo what about the "closure compiler" google made?
vendethiel or not interesting in this case. say sweet.js, interesting for masak++, not so much for pmurias++ :)
BenGoldberg p6: my \foo = []; push foo, foo, ; my $bar = foo.perl; say $bar; my \baz = $bar.EVAL; baz.perl.say; # Bug?
camelia rakudo-moar 79efbb: OUTPUT«(my \Array_140514291409024 = [Array_140514291409024,])␤[Mu]␤»
lizmat [Coke]: you realize there was a list of Moar only classes already >> 22:28
[Coke] lizmat: Not until I had already fudged it, no. and now we have specific markers for specific NYI things. 22:29
22:29 tokuhirom joined
[Coke] if you want, I can switch it back. 22:29
konobi huh, didn't notice perlito before
lizmat well, I went through a lot of trouble not having to put quotes around them
[Coke] ok. it just means we can't use fudge markers like we do everywhere else.
Changing it back. 22:30
timotimo bob ross is so relaxing
lizmat [Coke]: just mention both tickets on the the moar only loop
pmurias vendethiel: most of them are in the "thin mostly syntactic layer on top of js"
konobi pmurias: any idea how perlito does the bundling?
vendethiel pmurias: no, scalaJS and ghcjs aren't
TEttinger vendethiel: I'm slowly approaching your record streak, btw. 505 days 22:31
lizmat [Coke]++
vendethiel TEttinger: please don't burn like I did.
timotimo timo@schmetterling ~ [1]> perl6 -e 'my Rat $foo = 10'
Assigning a literal Integer to a Rat-typed variable won't work. You can try 10.Rat instead
Type check failed in assignment to $foo; expected Rat but got Int
vendethiel ended up not touching a single line of code for around 2 months after that
timotimo ^- like?
TEttinger I actually am right this moment working on a non-code-related project
pmurias vendethiel: I meant the ones on the huge list 22:32
vendethiel pmurias: oh! yep. I didn't link that list, btw
pmurias vendethiel: opal could be useful for stealing ideas 22:33
and having opal interop could be fun
vendethiel pmurias: they face much of the performance concerns you might have, btw
konobi pmurias: github.com/fglock/Perlito
22:33 tokuhirom left
vendethiel pmurias: although as timotimo++ said, you might be interested in ceylon/kotlin as they're both jvm-and-js. I prefer ceylon because it "does more", but both are good 22:35
dalek ast: aaec9c4 | coke++ | S02-types/WHICH.t:
Consolidate non-moar classes into one section
ast: 7a060c8 | coke++ | S02-types/WHICH.t:
Convert back to pretty list

  lizmat++
pmurias vendethiel: I should start working on speeding up nqp-js soon, I feel most of the horrible performance at the moment is caused by things that could be easily fixed
vendethiel pmurias: and lastly, maybe take a look at clojurescript, because it has a great ecosystem, a great way of doing things, and a way to specify whether code should run on the jvm or on the JS side 22:36
(also, you can just access to any js thing with "js" namespace. ie `(js/alert "hey")`)
konobi pmurias: you can use node-webkit-agent to do profiling via node 22:37
22:37 xfix left
pmurias vendethiel: like emitting nqp.wval($long_sc_descriptor, $idx) instead of wval_303 22:37
vendethiel yeah, that kind of stuff... 22:38
but you're going to have a very "fun" time for control exceptions,say.. ugh
22:39 zakharyas left 22:40 Oatmeal left
pmurias vendethiel: the closer we will want to get full js performance the crazier and more cunning the compiler will need to be 22:40
vendethiel :) 22:41
"good luck" or something... hahaha..
pmurias things like getting @foo[123] to be compiled to just array access seem more difficult that control exceptions 22:42
vendethiel it's lexically scoped, so it might actually be feasible
pmurias sub foo(@who-knows-what-we-get-here) {...} 22:43
dart.js uses type checks and two versions of a routine
vendethiel yep. every single containers has a cost
pmurias: dart.js specializes every sub per type?!! 22:44
pmurias I haven't looked at the implementation closely just watched a talk on youtube how it works 22:45
22:45 kjs_ joined
konobi could always use es6 proxies 22:45
pmurias vendethiel: I think they just guess a type and check on it
vendethiel es6 proxies are very slow, though :(
konobi i think it's pretty reasonable in v8 22:46
pmurias konobi: hacking around things is not generally a problem
vendethiel unless it has gotten crazy improvements... dynamic dispatch is always incredibly costly
pmurias hacking around things and having things run fast is what's the problem
22:47 Oatmeal joined, kjs_ left
pmurias fetching food& 22:48
22:49 BenGoldberg left, Ben_Goldberg joined
[Coke] r: (1..*).Capture 22:52
camelia ( no output )
[Coke] r: (1..*).Capture.perl
camelia ( no output )
..rakudo-jvm 79efbb: OUTPUT«java.lang.NullPointerException␤ in block <unit> at /tmp/tmpfile:1␤␤»
dalek kudo/nom: 1cc3825 | lizmat++ | src/core/List.pm:
Simplify List.keys
 22:55
kudo/nom: 938b1bd | lizmat++ | src/core/ (4 files):
Move NOT_ALL_DEFINED_TYPE to Rakudo::Internals
timotimo haha
not all defined types!
22:55 bjz left
dalek ast: ea2bca8 | coke++ | S02-types/capture.t:
fudge, refer to new ticket
 22:57
timotimo so ... 22:59
you know this error?
m: my Num $foo = 10;
camelia rakudo-moar 4c1f09: OUTPUT«Type check failed in assignment to $foo; expected Num but got Int␤ in block <unit> at /tmp/SapZMXQkME:1␤␤»
timotimo wouldn't you much rather have it be: 23:00
===SORRY!=== Error while compiling -e
Can't assign a Int literal (10) to a Num variable. You can try 10e0 instead or use Real
at -e:1 23:01
------> my Num $foo = ⏏10
dalek kudo/nom: 16d96fc | timotimo++ | src/ (2 files):
complain at optimize-time about my Num $foo = 10

instead of at run-time. also works for Rat, Int and Complex and for numeric constants, too.		 23:02
timotimo i desire praise 23:05
23:05 mattp_ left, mattp_ joined
vendethiel timotimo: the code is hard to read! :P 23:06
timotimo++
timotimo feel free to improve the whitespace there 23:08
thank you for the praise, though :) 23:09
Praise you desire me, timotimo? 23:10
vendethiel *g*
cygx github.com/rakudo/rakudo/pull/568/files # teach EVAL about nqp
vendethiel left a comment 23:12
timotimo Praise: from the bottom of my heart 23:13
cygx vendethiel: I'd vote for changing the Perl5 signature - it looks cleaner with the :$lang! 23:14
lizmat timotimo++
vendethiel cygx: agreed :)
RabidGravy right, beddy byes I think 23:17
lizmat gnight RabidGravy 23:18
RabidGravy :)
23:22 RabidGravy left
timotimo m: my Num $foo = 0; 23:25
camelia rakudo-moar 16d96f: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/CVDFsegRlJ␤Can't assign a Int literal (0) to a Num variable. You can try 0e0 instead or use Real␤at /tmp/CVDFsegRlJ:1␤------> 3my Num $foo = 7⏏050;␤»
timotimo <3
cygx timotimo: btw, congratulations on having the second-oldest still open pull request in the rakudo repository (2013-07-19)
23:26 bjz joined
[Coke] timotimo++ 23:26
timotimo cygx: sorry!! 23:28
[Coke] r: my int $namcu; $namcu = 2**100
camelia ( no output )
..rakudo-moar 16d96f: OUTPUT«Cannot unbox 101 bit wide bigint into native integer␤ in block <unit> at /tmp/tmpfile:1␤␤»
timotimo that one's still waiting on a design decision, cygx :)
lizmat FWIW, I've heard some cryptologist express their hope native int overflows would be silent 23:29
timotimo they are 23:30
i have no intent on changing that
FROGGS_ jnthn intends to change it 23:31
timotimo oh?
FROGGS_ aye 23:32
timotimo can we at least put that behind a pragma?
dalek ast: 55e2406 | coke++ | S02-types/declare.t:
fudge for JVM, new ticket
FROGGS_ probably
timotimo it'll probably want to be supported by the backend and there ought to be a difference in code-gen? 23:33
23:34 bjz left 23:35 bjz joined
pmurias what will native int overflows do? 23:42
timotimo throw an exception, probably? 23:45
that's the only "not silent" way i can imagine 23:46
pmurias timotimo: the spec seems to imply that they will return a boxed value if there is an overflow 23:47
23:47 mr_ron joined
pmurias well, would be as they would avoid it 23:47
23:48 mattp__ joined, mattp_ left
pmurias timotimo: if the boxed value is stored in a native place, the optimizer can turn the whole operation into a "fast one" 23:50
mr_ron m: gist.github.com/ronaldxs/9d5bf980ef9c3d1cd0ce 23:51
camelia rakudo-moar 16d96f: OUTPUT«99 bottles of beer on the wall, 99 bottles of beer.take one down, 98 bottles of beer on the wall.␤[("99 bottles", "take one down", "98 bottles"), ("98 bottles", "take one down", "97 bottles")]␤Too few positionals passed; expected 3 arguments but got 2…»
timotimo pmurias: but operations on native vars is already just operating on registers 23:53
mr_ron I just noticed the 99 bottles of beer - github.com/perl6/perl6-examples/bl...bottles.pl - example seems to be broken 23:54
same error as my gist 23:55
dalek kudo/nom: dbb2022 | lizmat++ | src/core/List.pm:
Revert "Simplify List.keys"

This reverts commit 1cc382505d6ebc7063fc65f0ad1d097c4ac2b54a.
Because now the list of keys isn't bounded like the actual list. The commit did not cause any spectest failures, it probably should have.		 23:56
kudo/nom: d98dc80 | lizmat++ | src/core/List.pm:
Make List.kv between 1.5x and 6x faster
lizmat good night, #perl6! 23:57
timotimo neato
23:58 mattp__ left 23:59 mattp__ joined

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