»ö« Welcome to Perl 6! | perl6.org/ | evalbot usage: 'p6: say 3;' or rakudo:, or /msg camelia p6: ... | irclog: irc.perl6.org or colabti.org/irclogger/irclogger_logs/perl6 | UTF-8 is our friend!
Set by moritz on 22 December 2015.
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lookatme o/ 00:34
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comborico1611 Yup. 01:33
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comborico1611 Thanks for the food ranger recommendation, if you're still out there. My wife is going to love it! 01:40
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comborico1611 Is any graphics programming done on p6? 02:03
lookatme comborico1611, you welcome :)
comborico1611 Weird timing.
Haha. 02:04
lookatme What graphics programming?
comborico1611 Anything. GUI, 2D, animation 02:05
I did a brief search, and didn't find anything.
lookatme GTK binding ?
comborico1611 I don't know what that is.
lookatme GTK is a GUI framework
greppable6: gtk 02:06
comborico1611 I see.
greppable6 lookatme, gist.github.com/7819ea3f1ee132d02c...d17857d4f7
comborico1611 Are these Graphics modules? 02:07
MasterDuke there are some SDL modules, i thought there was some chat yesterday or today about someone using them
comborico1611 I probably didn't know what they were talking about. 02:08
lookatme :) haha
modules.perl6.org/search/?q=graphics 02:09
There are some module about graphics 02:10
comborico1611 Simple DirectMedia Layer?
lookatme No 02:11
comborico1611 I see. I gotta finish the chapter on P6 OOP first. Heh.
lookatme okay
comborico1611 Gimp toolkit?
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lookatme What's that ? 02:12
comborico1611 GTK
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lookatme NO 02:12
It just a framework like MFC or QT 02:13
comborico1611 Looks like i have some things to learn. :)
geekosaur so?
what else do you use for gui programming?
you two seem to be talking at cross purposes 02:14
lookatme Hmm, he just don't know GTK 02:15
comborico1611 My initial question was answered. P6 has GUI stuff, GTK and SDL.
lookatme There just binding module, you can make your own binding
comborico1611 Now what they stand for, is another question. Ha.
lookatme Such as if you want use DirectX in Perl6, you can make a binding for it. Through it is not easy to do it. 02:17
s/through/though/
comborico1611 I better get to bed. Thanks for the info and chat, lookatme. Goodnight! 02:20
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ZzZombo docs lie 02:35
m: say "\c[woman gesturing OK]";
camelia 5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>
Unrecognized character name [woman gesturing OK]
at <tmp>:1
------> 3say "\c[woman gesturing OK7⏏5]";
MasterDuke m: say "woman gesturing OK".parse-name 02:36
camelia No such method 'parse-name' for invocant of type 'Str'. Did you mean any of these?
parse-base
parse-names

in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1
MasterDuke m: say "woman gesturing OK".parse-names
camelia 🙆‍♀️
geekosaur er. that broke at some point then 02:37
ZzZombo timotimo: sure it does. Gotta figure the actual encoding algorithm now.
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sacomo hi all 02:37
geekosaur bisectable: old=2017.01 say "\c[woman gesturing OK]"; 02:38
bisectable6 geekosaur, Bisecting by output (old=2017.01 new=6ec6f1e) because on both starting points the exit code is 1
geekosaur, bisect log: gist.github.com/72d2104c52732714d6...8df7d5bb28 02:39
geekosaur, (2017-03-07) github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/de...5b63f0665c
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ryn1x Will rakudo-star 2017.10 be coming to homebrew? 03:31
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Geth doc/ZzZombo-patch-1: 1fb883e01e | ZzZombo++ (committed using GitHub Web editor) | doc/Type/utf8.pod6
Update utf8.pod6
 04:26
ZzZombo what 04:27
I only wanted to test creating pull requests...
why the hell it committed it straight to the repo???? 04:28
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piojo ZzZombo: apparently you pushed to the wrong remote 04:29
ZzZombo me? it's the damn stupid web editor that did it. 04:30
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piojo ZzZombo: oh, I don't know nothin' about the web editor. 04:32
ZzZombo also since when did Github stop supporting syntax highlighting for Pods? I recall it being there a year ago. 04:33
Geth ecosystem: 12c1959ed5 | (Alex Chen)++ (committed using GitHub Web editor) | META.list
Add Algorithm::BitMap

Thank you for submitting a module to the Perl 6 Ecosystem!
If adding a new module please review the following check boxes and check the appropriate boxes by going to the preview tab and checking them interactively or alternatively replacing the space in the checkboxes with an X. Your work is appreciated and every module helps make the Perl 6 Ecosystem a bigger and better place ♥
  - [X] I **agree** to the usage of the META file as listed [here](github.com/perl6/ecosystem#legal).
... (5 more lines)		 04:34
ecosystem: 62c9abcb12 | (Alex Chen)++ (committed using GitHub Web editor) | META.list
Merge pull request #379 from perl6/W4anD0eR96-patch-1

Add Algorithm::BitMap
piojo It's easy for me to not make that mistake, since I don't have commit rights. :) 04:39
just "git push", then check my remote names and push more carefully if there's an error. 04:40
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travis-ci Doc build passed. ZzZombo 'Update utf8.pod6' 04:45
travis-ci.org/perl6/doc/builds/303363220 github.com/perl6/doc/commit/1fb883e01e68
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ZzZombo shhh, keep it quiet! 04:46
bad bots always want to keep a playa down!
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tyil does a constraint check throw a certain exception I can check in tests? 08:29
I have a signature sub foo ($n where $n > 0), and I want to add a test that verifies this works correctly
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moritz m: sub foo ($n where $n > 0) { }; try foo(-1); say $!.^name 08:37
camelia X::TypeCheck::Binding::Parameter
tyil sweet
thanks moritz
moritz tyil: there's even a throws-like function in Test.pm6 that you can use
tyil yes, I knew about that 08:38
but I didn't know the type or if it even was an exception
lookatme m: say qx/top/.ssss 08:49
camelia qx, qqx is disallowed in restricted setting
in sub restricted at src/RESTRICTED.setting line 1
in sub QX at src/RESTRICTED.setting line 11
in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1
lookatme ^^^, no syntax error ? 08:50
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moritz why should it be? 08:59
qx/top/ is a just an expression, and .ssss is a method call on it
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lookatme silly me :) 09:00
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sacomo hi all 09:02
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sacomo question about closures, if a sub is available in the scope that the closure was created in, is that sub also available in the closure's scope? or anyway to accomplish something similar? 09:03
tyil m: sub foo (Int $n) { }; try foo(.5); say $!.^name 09:04
camelia 5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>
Calling foo(Rat) will never work with declared signature (Int $n)
at <tmp>:1
------> 3sub foo (Int $n) { }; try 7⏏5foo(.5); say $!.^name
scimon How do you mean "available"?
tyil moritz: is there some clean way to test this one too? dies-ok seems to give the same compiler error 09:05
sacomo subs exported from modules included in the scope
tyil lb 23
scimon Hmmm I'd expect it to be then. When the closure is accessed I'd expect it to have the scope it was created with. 09:06
sacomo hmm 09:07
masak TimToady: not sure I've brought this up before -- would you agree that names introduced lexically in a quasi should not be visible in the quasi's unquotes? 09:10
in other words: `quasi { my $x; {{{ #`[ $x not visible here ] }}} }`
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masak (my argumentation is that quasi code is not "real"/"incorporated" enough for it to have real declarational side effects. this is in line with recent design decisions around quasis and BEGIN blocks.) 09:12
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sacomo is there a way to make the closure's scope available to modules it includes? "return -> { my $var = 123; use Foo; Foo::bar() }" where $var would be accessible inside bar() without passing it in? Not sure if that is even a good idea, just wondering if it is possible. 09:14
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geekosaur uh, it wouldn;t be visible there anyway. 09:16
but it sounds like you might want dynamic variables
my $*var = 123; ... sub that uses $*var internally ... 09:17
sacomo geekosaur, thanks, I will take a look
geekosaur that 'my' creates a variable in its lexical scope (specifically within the braces), not module scope. the name does not exist elsewhere. 09:18
sacomo ok 09:19
geekosaur 'our' creates a package variable, but that still wouldn't be visible inside of Foo module unless it also used 'our' to bring it in scope
docs.perl6.org/language/variables#The_*_Twigil docs.perl6.org/language/variables#..._and_Scope 09:20
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scimon I would veer towards the "Not a good idea" in most cases :) 09:39
moritz dynamic variables are great in grammars 09:40
because the scope of a dynamic variable inside a grammar corresponds to a lexical scope in the text you parse 09:41
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ZzZombo m: say 'a'.ords[0].WHAT 09:42
camelia (Int)
ZzZombo What is the size of Int? 09:43
moritz Int is bigint 09:44
m: say 2**100
camelia 1267650600228229401496703205376
moritz m: say 2**1000
camelia 10715086071862673209484250490600018105614048117055336074437503883703510511249361224931983788156958581275946729175531468251871452856923140435984577574698574803934567774824230985421074605062371141877954182153046474983581941267398767559165543946077062914…
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ZzZombo holy... 10:10
that's one too many...
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tyil how to override the standard "Usage:" response in a perl 6 program if the arguments dont match the MAIN's signature? 11:09
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tadzik write your own HELP() iirc 11:11
or USAGE? hmm
scimon USAGE I believe.
docs.perl6.org/language/functions#...ntry-USAGE
(The $*USAGE variable is nice as it give you the default message and then you can add to it) 11:12
tyil cool, thanks 11:13
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scovit Hello, how to disable strict from the command line "the fast way"? I am thinking about something like -M/strict or like this 11:20
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scovit googling this I just get an inconclusive discussion on the mailing list 11:21
where people propose good arguments and get totally ignored
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timotimo "no strict" isn't a feature that got much love in the past 11:25
it still has a rather severe performance impact
hm, actually 11:26
m: my $a; for ^10_000_000 { $a++ }; say $a; say now - INIT now 11:27
camelia 10000000
1.1738138
timotimo m: no strict; for ^10_000_000 { $a++ }; say $a; say now - INIT now
camelia 10000000
5.12958426
scimon Weeee
I see what you mean.
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ilmari m: no strict; my $a; for ^10_000_000 { $a++ }; say $a; say now - INIT now 11:27
camelia 10000000
1.20387895		 11:28
lookatme :) 11:29
ZzZombo timotimo: uh, I forgot what do I have to do in order to create my custom encoder/decoder/whatever? Can I show me again?
timotimo m: our $a; for ^10_000_000 { $a++ }; say $a; say now - INIT now
camelia 10000000
1.184042
lookatme ZzZombo, you can check the irc log
ZzZombo where?
lookatme irc.perl6.org 11:30
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timotimo github.com/rakudo/rakudo/blob/mast...ncoding.pm - implement this role with a class 11:30
scovit timotimo it is a pity but most of the time I would pay that for having nostrict
perl6 -ne 'no strict; @F = .split(/\s/); $norm = @F[1] unless defined $norm; say @F[0], "\t", @F[1]/$norm;'
perl -nae '$norm = $F[1] unless defined $norm; print $F[0], "\t", $F[1]/$norm, "\n";'
timotimo github.com/rakudo/rakudo/blob/mast...try.pm#L34 - call this method on Encoding::Registry if you want your encoding to be available everywhere by just passing its name rather than the class 11:31
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scovit more people using perl6 for this kind of simple things might help improving performances 11:31
timotimo github.com/rakudo/rakudo/blob/mast...Encoder.pm - implement this role in the thing you return from your Encoding's "encoder" method
scimon I don't see why adding my twice is harder than writing no strict.
scovit scimon it is 11:32
since no strict might be just -E instead of -e
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scimon Thing is when I'm writing cmd line perl5 I use my because I just use my by default. 11:33
timotimo i'm not sure why you write $norm //= @F[1] in long hand there :)
scovit timotimo sure I'm not used to // too much but you are right
timotimo m: my $norm = 123; given .split(/\s/) { my $norm //= .[1]; say .[0], "\t", .[1] / $norm } 11:34
camelia Cannot resolve caller split(Any, Regex); Routine does not have any candidates. Is only the proto defined?
in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1
timotimo m: $_ = "1234 9876"; my $norm = 123; given .split(/\s/) { my $norm //= .[1]; say .[0], "\t", .[1] / $norm } 11:35
camelia 1234 1
timotimo oh, one my too many, heh.
m: $_ = "1234 9876"; my $norm = 123; given .split(/\s/) { $norm //= .[1]; say .[0], "\t", .[1] / $norm }
camelia 1234 80.292683
timotimo yeah, not really short.
m: $_ = "1234 9876"; my $norm = 123; $_ .= split(/\s/); $norm //= .[1]; say .[0], "\t", .[1] / $norm
camelia 1234 80.292683
Juerd .words :) 11:37
timotimo not the same thing!
m: say "1234 999".split(/\s/).perl; 11:38
camelia ("1234", "", "", "", "", "", "", "999").Seq
timotimo m: say "1234 999".words.perl;
camelia ("1234", "999").Seq
Juerd True, but was the split correct in the first place? :)
mniip ooh. Now that I have a higher DPI display I can actually make out the N and L in ␤! 11:39
timotimo :D
mniip it used to look like some kind of wiggly line
timotimo when will we make .=words; short hand for $_ .= words 11:40
m: $_ = "hi there"; .=words; .say
camelia (hi there)
timotimo it already is!
mniip timotimo, be consistent and make '=x' shorthand for '$_=x'
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timotimo m: sub prefix:<=>($value) { $CALLER::_ = $value }; .say; =99; .say 11:41
camelia ===SORRY!===
Cannot find method 'ast' on object of type NQPMu
Juerd mniip: Unary = would easily be confused with pod
timotimo m: sub prefix:<=>($value) { CALLER::('$_') = $value }; .say; =99; .say
camelia ===SORRY!===
Cannot find method 'ast' on object of type NQPMu
timotimo is this about pod parsing?
m: =99
camelia 5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>
Preceding context expects a term, but found infix = instead
at <tmp>:1
------> 3=7⏏0599
timotimo hm. wow?
Juerd m: =lc 11:42
camelia 5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>
Preceding context expects a term, but found infix = instead
at <tmp>:1
------> 3=lc7⏏5<EOL>
Juerd m: =head1
camelia 5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>
Preceding context expects a term, but found infix = instead
at <tmp>:1
------> 3=head17⏏5<EOL>
timotimo ^- that's also what you get when you have some invalid pod after the thing
yeah
Juerd Note the location of the ⏏ though. It's before 99, but after lc and head1
timotimo ah, interesting indeed 11:43
that internal error is still bad
m: sub prefix:<≠>($value) { CALLER::('$_') = $value }; .say; ≠99; .say
camelia (Any)
99
timotimo .u ₌
yoleaux U+208C SUBSCRIPT EQUALS SIGN [Sm] (₌)
timotimo absolutely perfect.
m: sub prefix:<₌>($value) { CALLER::('$_') = $value }; .say; ₌99; .say 11:44
camelia (Any)
99
lookatme m: sub prefix:<=>($value) { $CALLER::("_") = $value }; .say; prefix:<=>(99); .say
camelia (Any)
99
lookatme m: sub prefix:<*>($value) { $CALLER::("_") = $value }; .say; *99; .say 11:45
camelia (Any)
99
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lookatme m: sub prefix:<_>($value) { $CALLER::("_") = $value }; .say; _99; .say 11:45
camelia 5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>
Undeclared name:
_99 used at line 1
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timotimo m: sub prefix:<_>($value) { $CALLER::("_") = $value }; .say; _\99; .say 11:48
camelia 5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>
Confused
at <tmp>:1
------> 3e) { $CALLER::("_") = $value }; .say; _\7⏏0599; .say
timotimo m: sub prefix:<=>($value) { $CALLER::("_") = $value }; .say; =\99; .say
camelia ===SORRY!===
Cannot find method 'ast' on object of type NQPMu
timotimo m: sub postfix:<=>($value) { $CALLER::("_") = $value }; .say; 99=; .say
camelia ===SORRY!===
Cannot find method 'ast' on object of type NQPMu
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ilmari hm, no Set.power-set method? 11:53
lookatme what is power set ? 11:55
ilmari the set of all subsets of a set 11:56
moritz m: say (1, 2, 3).combinations
camelia (() (1) (2) (3) (1 2) (1 3) (2 3) (1 2 3))
moritz the logic is already in List.combinations
m: set(1, 2, 3).combinations
camelia ( no output )
moritz m: say set(1, 2, 3).combinations
camelia (() (1 => True) (3 => True) (2 => True) (1 => True 3 => True) (1 => True 2 => True) (3 => True 2 => True) (1 => True 3 => True 2 => True))
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lookatme m: for ^10_0000 { my $x = 1 (elem) set(1, 2, 3, 4); }; say now - INIT now; 12:02
camelia 1.2249444
lookatme m: for ^10_0000 { my $x = 1 (elem) (1, 2, 3, 4); }; say now - INIT now;
camelia 0.015957
lookatme m: my @f = 1, 2, 3, 4; for ^10_0000 { my $x = 1 (elem) @f; }; say now - INIT now; 12:03
camelia 0.3875291
lookatme m: my %f := set(1, 2, 3, 4); for ^10_0000 { my $x = 1 (elem) %f; }; say now - INIT now;
camelia 0.1006326
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Geth doc: feef77ea41 | (Tom Browder)++ (committed using GitHub Web editor) | doc/Language/glossary.pod6
add description of a “twine”
 12:54
synopsebot Link: doc.perl6.org/language/glossary
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Geth doc: ae1da58aac | (Tom Browder)++ (committed using GitHub Web editor) | doc/Language/glossary.pod6
fix typo, add commas
 12:58
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Geth doc: 4fd59ee4c4 | (Tom Browder)++ (committed using GitHub Web editor) | doc/Language/glossary.pod6
correct the example
 13:15
synopsebot Link: doc.perl6.org/language/glossary
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ZzZombo Can I filter out/replace all surrogate pairs out of my UTF-16 string? 14:48
timotimo what format do you have the utf16 in? an 8-bit buffer or a 16-bit buffer? 14:49
or, like, did you already decode code units?
ZzZombo it's utf16
I have the original string, BTW.
Can't I work it out there first? 14:50
timotimo you mean the perl6 utf16 type, yes?
ZzZombo Yes.
timotimo oh, if you have the Str, you just have to filter anything with a codepoint above a certain number
ZzZombo .ords is it?
timotimo yeah 14:51
though i'm not sure if there's any combiners in that region
in that case you'd have to .NFC or .NFD to get actual code points
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ZzZombo m: say (.ords,.NFC) with 'asd{-+ }Я✉🔔' 14:52
camelia ((97 115 100 123 45 43 32 125 1071 9993 128276) NFC:0x<0061 0073 0064 007b 002d 002b 0020 007d 042f 2709 1f514>)
ZzZombo m: say (.ords,.NFC.contents) with 'asd{-+ }Я✉🔔' 14:53
camelia No such method 'contents' for invocant of type 'NFC'
in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1
timotimo you want .list
ZzZombo m: say (.ords,.NFC.list) with 'asd{-+ }Я✉🔔'
camelia ((97 115 100 123 45 43 32 125 1071 9993 128276) (97 115 100 123 45 43 32 125 1071 9993 128276))
ZzZombo Yea... why does Buf implement one, the Uni the other? 14:54
timotimo the difference between ords and .NFC.list comes down to combining characters
.u combining
yoleaux U+0300 COMBINING GRAVE ACCENT [Mn] (◌̀)
U+0301 COMBINING ACUTE ACCENT [Mn] (◌́)
U+0302 COMBINING CIRCUMFLEX ACCENT [Mn] (◌̂)
ZzZombo m: say (.ords,.NFC.list) with 'a◌̀sd{-+ }Я✉🔔' 14:55
camelia ((97 9676 768 115 100 123 45 43 32 125 1071 9993 128276) (97 9676 768 115 100 123 45 43 32 125 1071 9993 128276))
timotimo m: say (.ords, .NFC.list) given "a\c[combining grave accent]\c[combining acute accent]"
camelia ((224 769) (224 769))
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timotimo oh, huh? 14:55
ZzZombo I don't see any difference
timotimo i must be remembering something old
anyway, gotta go afk again, but from that you'd just replace any number above 0x10000 with, for example, the replacement character 14:56
u: replacement
unicodable6 timotimo, U+FFFC OBJECT REPLACEMENT CHARACTER [So] ()
timotimo, U+FFFD REPLACEMENT CHARACTER [So] (�)
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ZzZombo Great, works as far as I can see. 15:03
timotimo += Inf ;) 15:04
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Geth atom-language-perl6: vmg++ created pull request #73:
grammar: Ensure all captures have a 'name' key		 15:08
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tony-o .tell Tux bench now has cpu/sys/usr times in it 16:07
yoleaux tony-o: I'll pass your message to Tux.
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Geth atom-language-perl6: 81b97522ea | (Vicent Marti)++ | grammars/perl6fe.cson
grammar: Ensure all captures have a 'name' key
 17:09
atom-language-perl6: 382720261a | (Patrick Spek)++ (committed using GitHub Web editor) | grammars/perl6fe.cson
Merge pull request #73 from vmg/vmg/fixes

grammar: Ensure all captures have a 'name' key
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moritz .u MESSAGE 17:48
yoleaux U+0095 MESSAGE WAITING [Cc] (<control>)
U+009E PRIVACY MESSAGE [Cc] (<control>)
moritz never heard of those
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Geth ecosystem: f85867ce1a | (Brian Duggan)++ | META.list
Remove OAuth2::Client::Google (now on CPAN)
 19:18
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buggable New CPAN upload: OAuth2-Client-Google-0.1.1.tar.gz by BDUGGAN cpan.metacpan.org/authors/id/B/BD/...1.1.tar.gz 19:33
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comborico1611 Quiet day, huh? 20:39
moritz looks like :) 20:40
comborico1611 Are you into martial arts?
moritz no 20:41
but my wife is, at least into one branch
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comborico1611 How come the Germans don't have their own? 20:41
moritz that's a surprisingly good question 20:42
I guess one part of it is that Germany doesn't have a long unified culture 20:43
comborico1611 It just occurred to me, you being German.
moritz many parts have (Bavaria, Saxonia, etc.), but "Germany" isn't very old
comborico1611 I didn't realize that.
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comborico1611 Prussia started when? 20:43
And why does it sound like Russia? I never had a teacher explain that. 20:44
moritz but, I'm not aware of either of those having a string martial arts culture either
comborico1611 Haha.
moritz comborico1611: in German, they don't sound similar. "Preussen" vs. "Russland"
comborico1611 Ah! Mystery finally solved! 20:45
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comborico1611 I always forget the... Um... Whatever it's called. F r ance isn't France but Francais. 20:45
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comborico1611 It is unfortunate somebody choose perRussia. I believe Americans don't know what Prussia is because of this. 20:46
pRussia* 20:47
Americans are ignorant enough as it is. lol.
moritz www.quora.com/Why-do-martial-arts-...-from-Asia
comborico1611 No need to confuse us further.
moritz there's only so many phonemes you can combine :-) 20:48
geekosaur that answer ignores things like capoeira that are western but share similarities with asian-style martial arts 20:51
comborico1611 Preussen... How would i say this in my OWN English. I'm not 100% on pronunciation, but I'd call it Parusin. 20:52
Honestly, i think the German spelling is English-enough.
moritz the eu is pronounce like the "oi" in "moisture" 20:53
comborico1611 But no, somebody had to call it pRussia.
moritz let's hope their p-value is low enough :-)
comborico1611 I see. In English, we would just replace oi with ew. Prussen. 20:54
Heh, i don't get your joke.
moritz in statistics, the p-value is related to the strength of evidence 20:56
comborico1611 When I hear the word capoeira, I always think of that 90's movie where a substitute teacher teaches the students it. He then becomes involved in some dangerous undercover drug thing at the school or something.
moritz like, you are trying to test if some new drug is better than not doing anything. But, it could be random fluctuation 20:57
comborico1611 I see.
moritz so, the lower your p-value, the more confident you are when distinnguishing the cases
hence, you need a very low p-value to distinguish russia and prussia :-)
comborico1611 *smiles blankly 20:58
moritz ok, I admit, that was very nerdy :)
comborico1611 Do you use much mathy examples in your Fundamentals? Mathy is difficult to define. It's always refreshing when the example uses very basic numbers. 21:00
moritz comborico1611: there are two of the ~12 examples that use basic math 21:01
comborico1611 Where? You sent me something?
geekosaur comborico1611, you might note that the Prussia confusion is self-inflicted; it's not like the Prussians told us how to Anglicize their name 21:02
moritz one is about visualizing disk usage by different files, the other is about plotting number of git commits per contributor
so, not really rocket science
geekosaur (well, strictly, it's probably the British who did it)
comborico1611 Yeah i know! That is the regretful part. I think it didn't even need to be changed/anglicized. 21:03
I think the two biggest topics of programming are, language wars, and do I need to be good at math to program. 21:04
Language Wars includes what's the best programming language to learn first. 21:05
moritz that's the first stage 21:08
ivans too bad the big vs. little endian war is practically over
who doesn't like drama
moritz then the second stage is "I know how to program, but how do I structure it so that I can maintain it?"
comborico1611 Heh, yes stage one, but the biggest stage. Many people desire to be programmers but never seal the deal. 21:09
moritz and maybe the third stage is "what's a good cache key? and how will operating and business interact with my program?"
dunno yet what the fourth stage will be; I'm eager to find out 21:10
comborico1611 Stage two is surprising. Stage three is beyond me knowledge.
My*
I think my talent is in stage two. I love to organize things. 21:11
But I've never seen a ten page code, so I'm not sure what stage two is about. 21:12
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moritz large code bases don't make good newcomer training material :-) 21:17
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comborico1611 Probably so. But i excel when i see whole program examples. I have textbooks with just snippets of code. 21:18
ivans I think looking at "real" code bases can be useful, even if you skip 99% of the details 21:19
comborico1611 Stroustrup has been the worst. I think it is the most common method. I'm only aware of one author that gives whole program examples.
Have should be hate* 21:20
ivans I learned C first and it was hard to imagine the difference between typical text book examples and even the simplest real program
but looking at how some utilities like `cat` and `less` are implemented gave me lots of ideas
comborico1611 I've never seen a real program yet. 21:21
ivans then looking at the difference between a GNU and an openbsd implementation was fun :p
comborico1611 Those are C library modules?
ivans they are typical programs you find in a Linux or Unix system
usually written in C
comborico1611 Maybe I'll look at one sometime. I'm trying to jump into networking. I have more books to read first. 21:22
ivans `cat` is very simple: it takes file names as command line arguments and prints the contents of each file
but even though it sounds trivial it's one of the most common programs you'll use in linux 21:23
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Herby_ o/ 21:23
comborico1611 Interesting.
ivans there are many programs you find in a linux/unix system that can be basically implemented in less than 100 lines of code 21:24
but looking at how the "real" implementations are written is nice
Herby_ rookie question: I'm using perl6 2017.07 on linux. Whats the easiest way to upgrade to 2017.10?
ivans Herby_: did you install it from you distribution's package manager or manually? 21:25
(and which distro?)
comborico1611 I'm a rookie, as well. :-( 21:26
Herby_ i'm a linux novice user as well but I believe I built it from source?
and galliousOS on a chromebook
and i used checkinstall
not sure if any of that helps
comborico1611: part of the club :) 21:27
ivans me too actually :D
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ivans Herby_: if you built from sourc I'd assume you just have to build the new version like you did the old one 21:28
comborico1611 (There actually are knowledgeable people on here. ivans is confused. He's no rookie.) 21:29
Herby_ do i need to somehow remove the 2017.07 before building the 2017.10?
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bolts Herby_: I installed the update from source without removing the old version, and it hasn't broken for me, but someone more knowledgeable may have a smarter answer. 21:31
Herby_ bolts: thanks, i'll give it a go 21:32
perlpilot (If you want the experts to show up, suggest to someone that they use rakudobrew ;-) 21:33
Herby_ so guys, I was thinking about using this program called rakudobrew 21:35
ivans Herby_: I just googled and found that you might want to use rakudobrew
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Herby_ :) 21:35
comborico1611 Rakudobrew is like the bat-signal, huh?
perlpilot Herby_: yeah, I build from source without removing the old version all the time. Just be aware that your old version won't be available anymore (which is usually only a problem when there's issues building the new version)
[Coke] ... well, I almost fell for it, having not review more than 4 lines
ivans when I build stuff from source I usually do it in a home directory and make it easy to rm -rf 21:36
comborico1611 Haha.
geekosaur note that rakudobrew is intended for developers, and may be confusing otherwise
[Coke] I use this to do a rebuild, which is kind of the nuclear option:
Herby_ here they come!
comborico1611 Good to know!
ivans I tried to look at how rakudo's "make install" works with multiple versions but I don't know
[Coke] gist.github.com/coke/c13e55d56c17f...0bf9dba0b4
ivans perlpilot: you're a genius
perlpilot only sometimes. other times I'm an idiot 21:37
Herby_ 60% of the time you're right every time
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bolts Is there a way to make r* use single line error and warning messages? I'm trying to write a compiler file for vim so I can use the quickfix window to navigate errors and warnings. 21:38
[Coke] There's an env variable which lets you get json out.
Could probably use that as a base to generate vim-friendly output. Not knowing vim-guts: you can't parse the existing output? 21:39
comborico1611 lol
Does anyone watch Tennis here?
Regardless, Herbie's comment reminds me of the Watson predictions four tennis tournaments. Watson's like if he wins 60% of his first serves there's a 45% chance that he'll win. It's hilarious hilariously confusing. 21:40
perlpilot Is "Tennis" a person or is it like "tennis", but more important :)
comborico1611 Sorry, voice recognition is dictating my capitals. 21:41
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[Coke] knows enough germans that an occasional capitalized Noun doesn't set off any bells. 21:41
comborico1611 Heh.
Herby_ comborico1611: I do not but I stole that line from the movie Anchorman
[Coke] however, side-rant, apparently "dice" is now allowed to mean one or more. Heathens.
comborico1611 I see.
perlpilot [Coke]: I read that too. It's a crazy world now. :)
comborico1611 The Barbarian horde! 21:42
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bolts [Coke]: I can parse the default output, but it's tricky with how they're formatted. I have a start, but without knowing all of the possible warnings, it's so far trial and error to get them all. I'll take a look at the json output. 21:44
Herby_ does anyone have a beginner friendly resource for dipping toes in to async/concurrency/parallelism?
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bolts Vim's support for multiline error messages is a little kludgy. 21:45
[Coke] at least the JSON output gives you something very parsable.
perlpilot JSON++
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perlpilot Herby_: Is docs.perl6.org/language/concurrency beginner friendly? 21:57
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Herby_ perlpilot: I'll give that a read. Thanks! 22:01
bolts So, $RAKUDO_EXCEPTIONS_HANDLER works great for errors, so far, but warnings aren't printed in json. Am I doing something wrong? 22:04
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lizmat because warnings are not caught by CATCH, but by CONTROL ? 22:06
bolts Is there a way to get warnings as json? 22:07
lizmat not that I know atm 22:09
perlpilot Herby_: We do need a good book on this stuff for Perl 6 though.
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moritz certainly won't be the one to write it 22:40
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buggable New CPAN upload: App-Cpan6-0.8.0.tar.gz by TYIL cpan.metacpan.org/authors/id/T/TY/...8.0.tar.gz 23:03
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bolts So, this I what I have so far for the perl6.vim compiler definition: gitlab.com/BoltsJ/dotfiles/blob/ma.../perl6.vim I'm pretty sure I'm missing a bunch of waring types though. 23:28
ugexe tyil: i would suggest removing the folder "perl6-nigger" from your distribution before uploading it to cpan (App-Cpan6-0.8.0.tar.gz) 23:29
tyil oh 23:30
oops :'D
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tyil pushed a new version with that removed 23:31
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buggable New CPAN upload: App-Cpan6-0.8.1.tar.gz by TYIL cpan.metacpan.org/authors/id/T/TY/...8.1.tar.gz 23:43
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buggable New CPAN upload: App-Cpan6-0.8.2.tar.gz by TYIL cpan.metacpan.org/authors/id/T/TY/...8.2.tar.gz 23:53
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