»ö« Welcome to Perl 6! | perl6.org/ | evalbot usage: 'p6: say 3;' or rakudo:, or /msg camelia p6: ... | irclog: irc.perl6.org or colabti.org/irclogger/irclogger_logs/perl6 | UTF-8 is our friend! 🦋
Set by Zoffix on 25 May 2018.
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Summertime "illegally post-declared type" when using a grammar in an earlier defined function 00:16
that implies that some situations would be legal? is there examples of that? 00:17
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timotimo when you stub it? 00:19
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Summertime ah ok, so, stub, followed by the subroutine, followed by the full type definition? 00:22
hey neat it works 00:24
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Summertime also is there a known reason why grammars don't have .ACCEPTS? 00:34
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b2gills xinming: `:sym<foo>` is special in a regex/token/rule, in that `<sym>` will be the same as `'foo'`. 00:52
`token asdf:sym<foo> { <sym> }` works exactly the same as `token asdf:sym<foo> { 'foo' }` 00:53
Summertime: Technically a grammar does have an ACCEPTS, but it is from Match/Any/Mu 00:59
If you can make the case for exactly what you think it should do, go ahead and make it.
m: .say for Grammar.can('ACCEPTS').map(*.candidates).flat.map(*.signature)
camelia (Mu:U: \topic, *%_)
(Mu:U: Mu:U \topic, *%_)
(Any:D: Mu:D \a, *%_)
(Any:D: Mu:U, *%_ --> Bool::False)
(Any:U: \topic, *%_)
(Match:D: $, *%_)
(Mu:U: \topic, *%_)
(Mu:U: Mu:U \topic, *%_)
(Any:D: Mu:D \a, *%_)
(Any:D: Mu:U, *%_ --> Boo…
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Kaiepi m: my $p = start { await $p } 01:01
camelia ( no output )
Summertime I'd be thinking, in my most expected world, `$x ~~ G` would be interchangable with `G.parse: $x`
Kaiepi weird that throws on my version 01:02
no sane person would write this though
ok now it's not...? 01:03
never mind then
oh i was typing %p instead of $p 01:06
b2gills m: .say for Grammar.can('ACCEPTS').map(*.candidates).flat.map(*.signature.params[0].type.^name).unique 01:07
camelia Mu
Any
Match
Summertime though playing around with it more, if you want to smartmatch against a grammar, you probably are using the grammar wrong (using it as a regex replacement when its not practical for that) 01:08
it'd only be useful to call parse without corresponding actions when debugging a grammar, I think 01:09
b2gills Kaiepi: There is no way for that to even progress as the `start` has the vow
Kaiepi i know, i was screwing around to see if i could break something
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b2gills m: .say for anon grammar Foo { method ACCEPTS (){}}.can('ACCEPTS').map(*.candidates).flat.map(*.signature.params[0].type.^name).unique 01:11
camelia Foo
Mu
Any
Match
b2gills Summertime: Since grammar is almost exactly the same as a class definition, you can always add one yourself 01:12
Summertime ah, that is pretty neat 01:13
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jnthn `my $p = start { await $p }` is actually racey. It can die if the code in the `start` block runs before the assignment into `$p`. 01:15
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Kaiepi neat 01:17
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Summertime my token URL { :my token protocol { 'http' | 'https' }; <protocol> } etc etc 01:28
this seems like a really bad way of not filling up the scope with random names, but it works nicely?
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uzl Hello #perl6! 01:33
yoleaux 20 Jul 2018 15:41Z <jmerelo> uzl: it would be better if you gather helpers and assign chapters to each of them (and meta-reviwers too). Have you used any kind of pro translator software, with thesaurus and so on?
uzl .tell jmerelo That sounds like a good idea but I'm not sure how to gather helpers. That's the main reason why I put it in the open (well, on #perl6) for if anyone is interested. 01:36
yoleaux uzl: I'll pass your message to jmerelo.
uzl .tell jmerelo Not I haven't used any professional software. All the translation was done manually, albeit consulting multiple sources such as dictionaries, thesaurus, wikipedia entries, etc. 01:37
yoleaux uzl: I'll pass your message to jmerelo.
warriors what did i miss 01:38
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uzl I'm reading about Perl 6 Pod and looking for a module that uses it extensively for documentation. I'd like to learn more about how I'd use it to document a program. 01:57
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AlexDaniel treegrep: .pod6 02:00
greppable6 AlexDaniel, gist.github.com/a66dff1b91733d81d8...c9873603b9
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warriors good luck 02:07
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warriors so perl6 does support nested functions :) why doesnt the docs mention it :) 02:20
its a need feature
neat 02:21
benjikun warriors: Where would you put that? 02:26
Under docs.perl6.org/language/functions ?
Seems kind of random to bring up 02:27
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warriors under blocks and lambdas 02:28
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Juerd It does say "By default, subroutines are lexically scoped. That is, sub foo {...} is the same as my sub foo {...} and is only defined within the current scope." which implies they can be nested, but I agree that's obscure if you're looking for the specific feature. 02:31
warriors: At the bottom of the page there's a link where you can report issues. Would you be willing to report this one? 02:32
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Kaiepi i have a phobia of nested functions after node 03:02
its garbage collector didn't handle them very well
Zoffix If you're in Toronto next Thursday (July 26), join the local #Perl Mongers meeting for a double-header #Perl6 talks: "Faster Perl 6 Programs" and "Intro Into Perl 6 Regexes and Grammars". It's free: www.meetup.com/Toronto-Perl-Monger...xwpyxkbjc/
Kaiepi hopefully perl's don't leak like that though, they're pretty useful 03:03
Zoffix notable6: weekly two P6 talks at Toronto Perl Mongers July 26: twitter.com/zoffix/status/1020867456020213761 03:07
notable6 Zoffix, Noted!
Zoffix .botsnack 03:08
yoleaux :D
Zoffix .ask jnthn does spesh do anything interesting with type constraints? What's the answer to the question: "Is there any potential performance benefit to specifying `Int` type constraint instead of just leaving it at Mu/Any?" 03:09
yoleaux Zoffix: I'll pass your message to jnthn.
Kaiepi m: my %es5-class = sub { sub ES5Class { my $foo = 1; my $bar = 2; my %prototype; { foo => $foo, bar => $bar, prototype => %prototype } }; my %ret = ES5Class(); %ret<prototype><baz> = 3; %ret; }() 03:11
camelia ( no output )
Kaiepi m: my %es5-class = sub { sub ES5Class { my $foo = 1; my $bar = 2; my %prototype; { foo => $foo, bar => $bar, prototype => %prototype } }; my %ret = ES5Class(); %ret<prototype><baz> = 3; %ret; }(); say %es5-class
camelia {bar => 2, foo => 1, prototype => {baz => 3}}
Kaiepi pointless with classes but you get the idea 03:12
are IIFEs mentioned in the docs? 03:13
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Xliff \o 03:14
yoleaux 21 Jul 2018 08:55Z <CIAvash[m]> Xliff: '%' doesn't allow a trailing '.', '%%' does.
21 Jul 2018 22:24Z <b2gills> Xliff: Was this more of what you were looking for: "aa.bb.cc" ~~ /^ [\w+]+ % '.' $/
Xliff m: "aa.bb.cc" ~~ /^ [\w+]+ % '.' $/
camelia ( no output )
Xliff m: ("aa.bb.cc" ~~ /^ [\w+]+ % '.' $/).say
camelia ｢aa.bb.cc｣
Xliff m: ("aa.bb." ~~ /^ [\w+]+ % '.' $/).say
camelia Nil
Xliff m: ("aa.bb" ~~ /^ [\w+]+ % '.' $/).say 03:15
camelia ｢aa.bb｣
Xliff .tell b2gills Thanks!
yoleaux Xliff: I'll pass your message to b2gills.
tobs A small doc issue: it says "`say dice + dice;` can print any number between 1 and 12" in docs.perl6.org/language/syntax#Term_term:%3C%3E but you get at least 2 pips from throwing two dice, don't you? 03:24
Xliff tobs: I think you might be right. 03:27
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Xliff Minimum value is 2, not 1 03:28
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tobs not sure if that's worth an issue though. Maybe someone with a commit bit would take care of it. 03:30
Xliff m: term:<dice> { (1..6).pick }; say dice + dice for ^100;
camelia 5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>
Undeclared routines:
dice used at line 1. Did you mean 'die'?
term:<dice> used at line 1. Did you mean 'term:<time>', 'term:<now>'?
Xliff Oh dear. Looks like that isn't working at all.
m: term:<dice> { (1..6).pick }; say dice; say dice + dice for ^100;
camelia 5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>
Undeclared routines:
dice used at line 1. Did you mean 'die'?
term:<dice> used at line 1. Did you mean 'term:<time>', 'term:<now>'?
Xliff m: sub dice { (1..6).pick }; say dice; say dice + dice for ^100; 03:31
camelia 2
Too many positionals passed; expected 0 arguments but got 1
in sub dice at <tmp> line 1
in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1
Xliff m: sub dice() { (1..6).pick }; say dice; say dice + dice for ^100;
camelia 2
Too many positionals passed; expected 0 arguments but got 1
in sub dice at <tmp> line 1
in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1
Xliff m: sub dice() { (1..6).pick }; say dice; say dice() + dice() for ^100;
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Xliff m: term:<dice> { (1..6).pick }; say dice; say dice() + dice() for ^100; 03:32
camelia 5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>
Undeclared routines:
dice used at line 1. Did you mean 'die'?
term:<dice> used at line 1. Did you mean 'term:<time>', 'term:<now>'?
Xliff Yeah. Unless I am doing something wrong, term doesn't work as advertised, anymore
Anyone else on who can offer clarification. Y'all know I can be easily conf00sled.
tobs hum, it works as expected in my rakudo 2018.06
Xliff Rakudo Star is at 2018.04 03:33
One sec.
tobs m: sub term:<dice> { (1..6).pick }; say min((dice + dice) xx 1000)
camelia 2
Xliff Ah! SEE! I forgot the "sub" 03:34
tobs ha!
Summertime are pick and roll the same in this situation? 03:35
tobs Summertime: I think so
Xliff OK. After checking 400 iterations, I get a minimum value of 2. 03:36
tobs: Bug it. It's a minor fix.
tobs the difference is with vs. without repetition, which doesn't matter for 1 pick
okiedokie
Xliff Thanks. 03:37
Summertime ... do terms take a relatively insane time to create? 03:38
m: sub term:<a>{};sub term:<b>{};sub term:<c>{};sub term:<d>{};sub term:<e>{} 03:41
camelia ( no output )
Summertime m: say (INIT now) - (BEGIN now); sub term:<a>{};sub term:<b>{};sub term:<c>{};sub term:<d>{};sub term:<e>{} 03:43
camelia 1.60135126
Summertime 1.6 seconds @.@ 03:44
m: say (INIT now) - (BEGIN now); sub a{};sub b{};sub c{};sub d{};sub e{}
camelia 0.0166396
Xliff The extra flexibility costs.
You don't want to know how badly grammars perform in compilation. 03:45
Summertime thats more than a cost x.x
then again its only compilation cost isn't it
Xliff m: say (INIT now) - (BEGIN now); say a+b+c+d; sub term:<a>{0};sub term:<b>{1};sub term:<c>{2};sub term:<d>{3};sub term:<e>{4} 03:46
camelia 5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>
Undeclared routines:
a used at line 1
b used at line 1
c used at line 1
d used at line 1
Xliff m: sub term:<a>{0};sub term:<b>{1};sub term:<c>{2};sub term:<d>{3};sub term:<e>{4}; say (INIT now) - (BEGIN now); say a+b+c+d;
camelia 0.01353
6
Xliff m: say (INIT now) - (BEGIN now); sub term:<a>{0};sub term:<b>{1};sub term:<c>{2};sub term:<d>{3};sub term:<e>{4}; say (INIT now) - (BEGIN now); say a+b+c+d; 03:47
camelia 2.0916655
0.01418341
6
Xliff Ye-ouch. Yeah. Compile time cost.
Summertime hmm, why do the two begins have such vastly different times? shouldn't both run before the main bulk of compiling? 03:50
Xliff m: say (INIT now) - (BEGIN now); sub term:<a>{0};sub term:<b>{1};sub term:<c>{2};sub term:<d>{3};sub term:<e>{4}; sub MAIN { say (INIT now) - (BEGIN now); say a+b+c+d; }
camelia 2.01751611
0.0148402
6
Xliff ^^ Implied MAIN 03:51
Summertime yeah but I mean, BEGIN is supposed to be some of the first things touched during compile right? shouldn't scope not matter in that case? 03:54
'Runs at compile time, as soon as possible,' -> 'Runs at compile time, as soon as compiled'? the prior wording makes it sound like it gets hoisted as a special case 03:56
Xliff What's the best way to convert an int or num to scientific notation? 04:00
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tobs m: say pi.fmt("%e") # Xliff 04:01
camelia 3.141593e+00
tobs that's one way at least
Xliff tobs++ 04:02
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Zoffix Summertime: Perl 6 does single-pass parsing, so there's no "main bulk" of compiling. The difference between the two BEGINs is how long it takes to mutate the grammar 5 times to mixin those new terms. You can stick terms/custom ops into a module and it'd get precompiled and you won't need to pay for them on each run of the program. 04:11
Geth doc: 28310695bb | (Zoffix Znet)++ (committed using GitHub Web editor) | doc/Language/phasers.pod6
fix bad casing
 04:13
synopsebot Link: doc.perl6.org/language/phasers
Xliff Zoffix: In the case of / \w+ % '.' /, what's the best way to add a negation to the following:
Zoffix: In the case of / \w+ % '.' && '.'$/, what's the best way to add a negation to the following:
Zoffix: This is a golf. It's the best way to ask without putting a lot more into the mix that will confuse the issue.
But I want to NEGATE the '.'$ part 04:14
Summertime yeah I was just confused as to what the docs meant, also mind-read my next question with the if-modules-would-make-it-cheaper answer
Geth doc: 88fff75591 | (Zoffix Znet)++ (committed using GitHub Web editor) | doc/Language/phasers.pod6
Expand on BEGIN phaser

Be more precise about when it's run and include an example
  colabti.org/irclogger/irclogger_log...07-22#l177		 04:21
synopsebot Link: doc.perl6.org/language/phasers
Zoffix Xliff: which is what? "not dot that is not at the end"?
What is it meant to match, in plain English? 04:22
Xliff Zoffix: I do NOT want a dot at the end.
namespace.table.field
but not namespace.table.
Zoffix <!after '.'> $
Xliff Of course, to make it more difficult, .table.field is allowed.
And is equivalent to table.field
tobs m: say (1..100).max; say (1,2,3).max(* R/ 1); say (1..100).max(* R/ 1) 04:23
camelia 100
Too many positionals passed; expected 1 argument but got 2
in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1

1
Zoffix m: say <namespace.table.field namespace.table. .table.field>.grep: /^ \.? <( \w+ % \. <!after \.> $/
camelia ()
Xliff Zoffix++ 04:24
tobs m: say (1,2,3).max(* R/ 1)
camelia 1
tobs m: say (1..100).max(* R/ 1)
camelia Too many positionals passed; expected 1 argument but got 2
in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1
tobs m: say (1...100).max(* R/ 1) 04:25
camelia 1
tobs hmmm, is this correct?
I mean, the error in the middle, with a Range.
Zoffix m: for <namespace.table.field namespace.table. .table.field> { m/^ \.? <( [\w+ % \.]+ <!after \.> $/ andthen .say } 04:28
camelia ｢namespace.table.field｣
｢table.field｣
geekosaur tobs: docs.perl6.org/routine/max#(Range)_method_max 04:29
essentially it's an accessor for a Range endpoint, instead of a selector 04:30
tobs m: say (1..100).list.max(* R/ 1)
camelia 1
geekosaur right
tobs thanks, geekosaur
Zoffix s: (1..100), 'max', \() 04:31
SourceBaby Zoffix, Sauce is at github.com/rakudo/rakudo/blob/cb2e....pm6#L1272
Zoffix weird that lookup points to the method method instead of the ancestor
m: ^6 .^lookup("max").file.say
camelia 5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>
Malformed postfix call (only alphabetic methods may be detached)
at <tmp>:1
------> 3^6 .7⏏5^lookup("max").file.say
Zoffix m: (^6).^lookup("max").file.say
camelia SETTING::src/core/Range.pm6
geekosaur no,m that's just hopw I found it, I think
no, that's just how I found it, I think
Zoffix looks like just a glitch in the bot; the last eval shows right file 04:32
geekosaur nothing about how it's defined necessarily, just showing how I went looking for it, then copied the link on the result page
oh
you mean the source bot
Zoffix Yeah
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Summertime is it possible to use a grammar in a way similar to a regex? (e.g. finding multiple matches against TOP a la m/regex/) 04:42
or would the best option be to shuffle all my regexes off to a seperate module? 04:43
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Kaiepi m: my $g = my grammar { has $.foo is rw; token TOP { [<a> | <b(1)>] c }; token a { a }; method b(Int $foo) { $!foo = $foo; Match.new } }; $g.parse('c'); say $g.foo 04:44
camelia Cannot look up attributes in a <anon|1> type object
in method foo at <tmp> line 1
in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1
Kaiepi how are attributes in grammars meant to be used?
oh wait 04:45
m: my $g = my grammar { has $.foo is rw; token TOP { [<a> | <b(1)>] c }; token a { a }; method b(Int $foo) { $!foo = $foo; Match.new } }.new; $g.parse('c'); say $g.foo
camelia (Any)
Zoffix m: grammar Foo { token TOP { <bar> | \d+ }; token bar { 'bar' } }; say "bar 42 500" ~~ /<Foo::TOP>/ 04:53
camelia ｢bar｣
Foo::TOP => ｢bar｣
bar => ｢bar｣
Zoffix m: grammar Foo { token TOP { <bar> | \d+ }; token bar { 'bar' } }; say "bar 42 500" ~~ /<Foo::bar>/
camelia ｢bar｣
Foo::bar => ｢bar｣
Zoffix Summertime: ^ is that what you mean?
Kaiepi: `method b(Int $foo) { $!foo = $foo;` can just be written as `method b(Int $!foo) {` 04:54
Kaiepi yeah, it threw when i tried that
Zoffix m: my $g = my grammar { has $.foo is rw; token TOP { [<a> | <b(1)>] c }; token a { a }; method b(Int $!foo) { Match.new } }.new; $g.parse('c'); say $g.foo
camelia (Any)
Kaiepi weird 04:55
lemme see which expression i tried that threw
Zoffix m: grammar Foo { token TOP { <bar> | \d+ }; token bar { 'bar' } }; say "bar 42 500" ~~ /<meows=.Foo::bar>/ 04:56
camelia ｢bar｣
meows => ｢bar｣
Zoffix Summertime: ^ can also rename what the capture captures as like that ^
Kaiepi my $g = my grammar { has $.foo; token TOP { a <a: 1> }; method a(Int $!foo) {} }.new; $g.parse('a')
m: my $g = my grammar { has $.foo; token TOP { a <a: 1> }; method a(Int $!foo) {} }.new; $g.parse('a')
camelia Cannot look up attributes in a Nil type object
in regex TOP at <tmp> line 1
in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1
Kaiepi oh wait it's not returning a match 04:57
Zoffix Yeah, I think that's what's making it unhappy
Kaiepi m: my $g = my grammar { has $.foo; token TOP { a <a: 1> }; method a(Int $!foo) { Match.new } }.new; $g.parse('a')
camelia ( no output )
Kaiepi yeah that's it 04:58
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Summertime Zoffix, exactly what I meant, thanks greatly! 04:59
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jmerelo releasable6: status 06:24
yoleaux 01:36Z <uzl> jmerelo: That sounds like a good idea but I'm not sure how to gather helpers. That's the main reason why I put it in the open (well, on #perl6) for if anyone is interested.
01:37Z <uzl> jmerelo: Not I haven't used any professional software. All the translation was done manually, albeit consulting multiple sources such as dictionaries, thesaurus, wikipedia entries, etc.
releasable6 jmerelo, Next release will happen when it's ready. 4 blockers. 0 out of 234 commits logged (⚠ 79 warnings) 06:25
jmerelo, Details: gist.github.com/297fec140641a8658e...468d163185
jmerelo .tell uzl for big translations, using some software really helps speed up the process 06:27
yoleaux jmerelo: I'll pass your message to uzl.
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Geth doc: 950b22cbaa | (JJ Merelo)++ | doc/Language/syntax.pod6
Fixing arithmetics.

And some reflow. Closes #2204, which is absolutely correct. Thanks!		 06:32
synopsebot Link: doc.perl6.org/language/syntax
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xinming I saw thtat we can do does to the object, Is it possible to undo that? I mean strip the role off the object. 08:10
let me try 08:11
masak xinming: you can use `but` and keep the original
xinming Thanks... 08:14
Perl6 will be the language lasting for centuries...
our slogan. :-)
I understand why people say 'perl cult'...
araraloren What does the mixin working ? Is it modify the original object or create a new object ? 08:15
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masak xinming: I don't need it to last for centuries, I just want to be able to run it on my phone :P 08:17
araraloren: `does` modifies the original, `but` clones and then modifies the clone 08:18
araraloren masak sweet
you mean on android ? 08:19
masak yeah, sure.
heck, if it only worked on Windows Phone, I'd consider buying one
araraloren oh, does someone working on that ?
porting to android 08:20
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xinming You can compile perl6 to js. and run in browswer of your phone. :-) 08:20
araraloren yeah, I see. How about on native of Android ? 08:21
masak m: sub mitosis($s1, $s2) { zip($s1.comb, $s2.comb)>>.pick.join }; say mitosis("masak", "sweet") xx 10 08:22
camelia (maeat sweek sweak mwsat mweat maeet maeet saset mweet maset)
masak sweek!
masak is apparently a bioinformaticist
stmuk araraloren: I've heard of android ports under debian/libfakeroot (no root needed) 08:24
araraloren oh, stmuk
masak I mean, I have Python on my phone, so why not Perl 6 08:25
araraloren Hmm, perl 5 can run on the phone ? 08:26
stmuk I think you can just apt install perl on one of the play store's debians 08:27
araraloren oh 08:28
masak wait, "one of the play store's debians"? o.O
I feel like I walked in on an alternate plot line here
araraloren yeah, atually I am not understand what he said :( 08:29
masak immediately finds "debian noroot" in the app store 08:30
stmuk maybe people favour this one now (not sure) 08:33
play.google.com/store/apps/details...com.termux
termux.com/ 08:36
Up-to-date versions of Perl, Python, Ruby and Node.js are all available. 08:37
masak ooh 08:50
stmuk: ...wow, that works beautifully. thank you. 08:52
you've made my day :>
still, I'd also like Perl 6 on there :)
El_Che masak: github.com/termux/termux-packages 09:00
masak: I guess you'll bump against rakudo not being relocatable 09:01
it doesn't look like it does a chroot or similar 09:02
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stmuk I think it's roughly like chroot 09:05
proot-me.github.io/ and packages.debian.org/sid/libfakeroot
I need to try a rakudo build 09:06
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jmerelo Help with this? stackoverflow.com/questions/514635...t-it-right 09:50
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Zoffix jmerelo: .^lookup 09:58
moritz I'll answer
Zoffix m: class Foo { has $thing = "baz"; method bar() { say $thing } }; sub quux( Callable $flimflam ) { $flimflam() }; my $foo = Foo.new; quux $foo.^lookup('bar').assuming: $foo; 09:59
camelia baz
Zoffix The .assuming bit is just to stick the invocant as the first arg.
The .^lookup returns the Method object that you can call, but you need to give it a valid arg to use as an invocant. 10:00
There's also .^can that gives a list of methods, walking the MRO 10:01
and .cando method that takes a Capture and gives a sorted list of candidates that can handle those args
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jmerelo moritz, zoffix: thanks. 10:02
moritz, zoffix: no simpler syntax, right? You simply have to go through the MOP. 10:03
araraloren I think no simple syntax
Zoffix Looks fairly simple as is :)
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jmerelo moritz, zoffix: as a workaround I simply defined a pointy block around that... 10:04
moritz well, in python it's simpler
Zoffix moritz: what is it in python?
moritz in python, foo.bar() calls the method, and foo.bar returns the method bound to foo
Zoffix Ah
araraloren is python support multi candidates ?
Zoffix rather use the .^lookup and #DeathToParens on regular calls 10:05
jmerelo: that sounds good too. It doesn't have to be pointy; {$obj.meth} does the trick too 10:06
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jmerelo Zoffix: thanks 10:22
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moritz anything missing from my SO answer? 10:24
Zoffix moritz: yes, the closing parentheses in the first sentence 10:27
:)
moritz fixed, and linkified lookup 10:30
jmerelo And another one: stackoverflow.com/questions/514643...d-on-a-mix 10:47
pick is apparently still in Baggy github.com/rakudo/rakudo/blob/7629.../Baggy.pm6 10:49
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jmerelo And Mixy does Baggy but does not support pick? github.com/rakudo/rakudo/blob/7629...e/Mixy.pm6 10:50
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Zoffix jmerelo: that's a bit of a silly SO question, innit? The error is fairly explanatory 10:52
jmerelo Zoffix: yep, but I wonder why. It's implementing that role, but overriding some functions and printing errors. It's more of a documentation question, I guess. 10:53
Zoffix: I've rephrased the question. 10:54
Zoffix: I mean, by looking at the source I see I should use roll, instead of pick. But It's not clear to me why that's so. 10:56
Zoffix jmerelo: .roll and .pick are different features. 10:58
jmerelo: .pick requires removal of probabilities from the original, but you got non-integral weights and there's nothing to remove. It's like picking apples from a bag vs. picking paint from a can of paint. 10:59
jmerelo Zoffix: OK. 11:00
Zoffix: so maybe the Baggy role should be divided into two different roles. Pickable and Rollable. Or just put pick on its very own role.
Zoffix: I'll put an issue in the documentation to fix that. 11:01
If you are going to attend TPC in Glasgow, maybe you'd be interested in joining the perl6/doc BoF act.perlconference.org/tpc-2018-gla...tion%20BoF 11:06
Geth doc/mixy-meth: c32b4b35b2 | (Zoffix Znet)++ (committed using GitHub Web editor) | doc/Type/Mixy.pod6
Document Mixy.pick/.grab/.kxxv

Potential fix for D#2205 github.com/perl6/doc/issues/2205 pending resolution of github.com/rakudo/rakudo/issues/2109		 11:13
synopsebot D#2205 [open]: github.com/perl6/doc/issues/2205 [docs][update] Document overriden roles in Mixy
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jmerelo Zoffix++ 11:16
releasable6: status 11:17
releasable6 jmerelo, Next release will happen when it's ready. 4 blockers. 0 out of 234 commits logged (⚠ 79 warnings)
jmerelo, Details: gist.github.com/fd4aa1d9b697577d03...aa949f1ed6
Zoffix jmerelo: what's "BoF"? 11:25
jmerelo Zoffix: Birds of a Feather. Kinda workshop-inside-a-conference
Zoffix ah 11:26
jmerelo Zoffix: will you be attending?
Zoffix No. I only attend things in Canada within 12-hour driving distance. 11:28
jmerelo Zoffix: Glasgow is definitely not withing that range. Unless you drive jets. 11:29
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tbrowder_ Zoffix: any interest in your area for a p6 gathering of some kind? would the Toronto PM be interested in hosting some kind of thng like the recent NL workshop! 12:27
s/!/?/
i keep seeing stats on most p6 people are in NA but where are they? 12:28
i feel like the lone ranger sometimes. util is the closest one to me i know of and he’s about 200+ miles away. 12:30
Geth doc: mienaikage++ created pull request #2206:
Add WinCompose to unicode_entry		 12:33
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ecocode zef seems to install modules in $HOME/.perl6. But the structure of that directory is full of unreadable directories. How can I locate the directory in which a particular module has been installed? 13:00
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El_Che ecocode: that not zef, but rakudo sha1 dirs for precompiled modules 13:03
ecocode well I found zef locate should show the dir but it doesn't 13:04
zef locate Cro::HTTP
jnthn Seems to do so for me
ecocode ===> From Distribution: Cro::HTTP:ver<0.7.6.1>:auth<>:api<>
jnthn Cro::HTTP is a distribution, not a module
luffysenpai Hello Zoffix
jnthn Try `zef locate Cro::HTTP::Auth` for example
ecocode ah
jnthn: works! 13:05
thx !
El_Che: learned something ;)
luffysenpai Guys the pre-existing modules for the russian txt are down
El_Che ecocode: I am sure there are pretty good reasons for the SHA1 thing, but not a fan. I am always confused as you are :) 13:06
jnthn ecocode: Also note that while you can use this to look at what the source of an installed module is, you can't expect to edit the source files and have the changes take effect. An installation repository will go for the precompiled bytecode. 13:08
The source is retained mostly for the purpose of being able to generate updated precompilations upon Rakudo upgrades.
El_Che ecocode: most of the time I end up nuking ~/.perl6 and reinstall stuff
jnthn If wanting to tinker with a module, grab a checkout of its source, and then stick -Ipath/to/that/source and that source version will take priority over the installed one. 13:10
ecocode jnthn: ok 13:11
I wanted to be sure I had the latest source from git repo. 13:12
so the locate thing was ok for that
good to know about the -I priority stuff though 13:13
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ecocode El_Che: I'm learning perl6 and cro simultaneously.. it ain't an easy path ;) 13:25
Kaiepi cro looks really neat 13:26
ecocode and I added Koos to the list
Kaiepi what are you working on? 13:27
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El_Che ecocode: good choice. I approve :) 13:28
pmurias nqp-truffle now passes 19 nqp test files :)
ecocode Kaiepi: writing a test app
hoping to setup a REST API to my mysql db
El_Che pmurias: with graalvm being so fast, has your port the potential to be faster than rakudo? 13:29
ecocode then add frontend with probably vuejs
but that is far far away
Kaiepi nice 13:30
Geth doc: d60553a801 | (Daniel Mita)++ | doc/Language/unicode_entry.pod6
Add WinCompose to unicode_entry
 13:37
doc: ea00aa4e4e | (Daniel Mita)++ | doc/Language/unicode_entry.pod6
Remove WinCompose unicode code point paragraph
synopsebot Link: doc.perl6.org/language/unicode_entry
doc: cd3bb6523a | (Aleks-Daniel Jakimenko-Aleksejev)++ (committed using GitHub Web editor) | doc/Language/unicode_entry.pod6
Merge pull request #2206 from mienaikage/wincompose

Add WinCompose to unicode_entry
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pmurias El_Che: rakudo-truffle being a lot faster then rakudo-moarvm currently is the plan 13:39
mscha m: my $start = now; say await (0..5).map(-> $i { start { say "a$i"; sleep $i/5; say "b$i"; $i } }); say (now - $start).fmt('%.2f'), 's' 13:42
camelia a0
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mscha m: my $start = now; say await (0..5).map(-> $i { start { slip gather { say "a$i"; sleep $i/5; say "b$i"; take $i } } }); say (now - $start).fmt('%.2f'), 's'
camelia a0
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Kaiepi oh, i was wondering what that was about
mscha Any idea why the second example doesn't run concurrently?
The `gather` appears to break concurrency. 13:43
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pmurias El_Che: performance is hard to make super solid predictions about, as it involves complex systems full of heuristics 14:05
El_Che pmurias: hard core :) 14:10
jnthn mscha: gather is lazy, the Promise evaluates to a lazy thing, and it's evaluated upon the assignment into the array after the `await` 14:15
mscha: Try putting an "eager" in before the `gather`
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mscha m: my $start = now; say await (0..5).map(-> $i { start { slip eager gather { say "a$i"; sleep $i/5; say "b$i"; take $i } } }); say (now - $start).fmt('%.2f'), 's' 14:28
camelia a0
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mscha jnthn, thanks, clear!
pmurias El_Che: but the general idea is as Truffle is good at running things that where designed without regards to how they can be optimized it likely will be a good fit for Perl 6 14:40
El_Che pmurias: an universal VM like parrot wanted to be?
pmurias it's what parrot was intended to be 14:41
only instead of providing an ill fitting set of ops they give you a toolset to build your own JIT that can be combined efficently with others 14:43
moritz sounds a bit likey pypy 14:46
pmurias moritz: same goal, different implementation 14:48
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pmurias plus Truffle/GraalVM is being pushed by a huge corporation planning on grabbing a bunch of markets 14:48
moritz and typically the second project to try something like this can learn something from the first :-) 14:50
xinming_ anyone here knows how I can do perlito6 to compile perl6 code to js? 14:51
I'm in perlito git repo, and in src6, I run perl6 -Ilib util/perlito6.pl 14:53
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xinming_ It seems missing modules. 14:53
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xinming_ ignore me, I got some clues, will try more 14:57
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timotimo i always use the online version of perlito6 to do it 15:48
fglock.github.io/Perlito/perlito/perlito6.html
xinming_: ^
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stmuk . 16:03
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Geth doc: 06b068dda4 | (JJ Merelo)++ | doc/Language/functions.pod6
Eliminates indentation
 16:17
synopsebot Link: doc.perl6.org/language/functions
xinming_ timotimo: THanks, I just wish to write do some testing on write somecode in perl6 for browser 16:19
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Zoffix luffysenpai, what do you mean? Which modules are down? 16:24
yoleaux 12:16Z <jnthn> Zoffix: In various places, Mu is treated as "don't even type check this", which is why we can use it to pass around non-Perl 6 types (e.g. NQP types, VM-provided objects). So that sounds like a win. But then if we have `sub foo(Int $i) { }` then it spots Int !~~ Iterable and Iterable !~~ Int and then emits code that just deconts any incoming value but does *not* wrap it up in a readonly Scalar. For
12:18Z <jnthn> Zoffix: So far as spesh goes, it will try to eliminate whatever type checks it can, usually replacing them with much cheaper deopt guards. In some cases, it do one guard of something and then avoid re-checking later, so removing type checks from whole chains of calls.
12:21Z <jnthn> Zoffix: In summary, you stand to get better memory behavior with declaring the types, and in places where the default would be Any then it's all the same to spesh, so Any has no performance benefit over Int.
Zoffix Thanks.
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andrzejku hi all 16:35
Geth doc/coke/build: 926c8df9f6 | (Will "Coke" Coleda)++ | 2 files
add standard progress bar
 16:36
buggable New CPAN upload: Chart-Gnuplot-0.0.6.tar.gz by TITSUKI modules.perl6.org/dist/Chart::Gnupl...an:TITSUKI 16:40
Zoffix \o 16:41
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andrzejku Zoffix: we will copy your doc style 16:44
Zoffix: I hope you will be no angry
Kaiepi qemu has blazing fast speed for testing builds 16:46
Stage parse : 1481.007
some time tonight we'll see if there are any issues on netbsd at least 16:48
ownTheLibs hmmmmm...
I did according to the instructions on the rakudo-pkg github page
The repository 'dl.bintray.com/nxadm/rakudo-pkg-debs sarah Release' does not have a Release file. 16:49
N: Data from such a repository can't be authenticated and is therefore potentially dangerous to use.
that's the error I get after executing the three lines
on Linux Mint, that's Ubu/Debian compatible 16:50
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Zoffix El_Che: ^ are you around? 16:52
andrzejku: knock yourself out
mst andrzejku: just everybody who has to read it
mst runs
andrzejku Zoffix: what that mean? 16:53
mst andrzejku: hea means "go for it"
andrzejku mst: ok thnks
mst andrzejku: and I was just being silly
Zoffix andrzejku: idioms.thefreedictionary.com/knock+yourself+out 16:54
ownTheLibs: installs for me on Bodhi Linux, but it's using "trusty Release" for the stuff. Doesn't look like `sarah` is available: dl.bintray.com/nxadm/rakudo-pkg-debs/dists/ 16:59
ownTheLibs: El_Che is the author of those packages. They should be able to make builds for Mint too
ownTheLibs: you could use docker `docker pull rakudo-star` from source: rakudo.org/files/star/source 17:00
ownTheLibs: that's for Rakudo Star distribution that includes some modules. If you want the compiler-only (slightly newer), the instructions are these: rakudo.org/files/rakudo/source 17:01
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ownTheLibs Zoffix: thanks will look into the docker 17:10
would need to learn the system first, but anyways 17:11
Zoffix ownTheLibs: I missed some words in that sentence. Should've been "you could use docker `docker pull rakudo-star` or build from source: rakudo.org/files/star/source" 17:12
The docker page is this: hub.docker.com/_/rakudo-star/ 17:13
Don't know docker either. I just build the compiler from source.
El_Che ownTheLibs: it looks like an error in the instructions
ah mint, I see
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El_Che if it's based on Ubuntu 18.04 "deb dl.bintray.com/nxadm/rakudo-pkg-debs bionic main" will work 17:14
Linux mint was based on 16.04 17:18
so, you would use "xenial" instead of "bionic" 17:19
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El_Che en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linux_Mint_v...on_history 17:19
ownTheLibs aye will try changing that 17:23
altho I think sarah should work? 17:24
El_Che I am looking at the bintray api if I can create an alias (no way on the ui)
ownTheLibs now it seems to install it! 17:25
El_Che I should be able to add the mint codenames 17:28
ecocode if I want to add my own methods to a Role roleA from a cpan module, should I create a new roleB which somehow 'does RoleA' ? 17:29
El_Che ownTheLibs: I added build support for mint, will see with the next release of the packages are correctly upgraded to the repo 17:32
ownTheLibs: for now use the corresponding ubuntu name
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linux_Mint_v...on_history
xinming_ Is perl6 function concator uses o as infix? 17:37
if so, it's not defined in rakudo. :-)
it's defined, I know where the mistake is 17:38
ownTheLibs El_Che: thanks, it was solved by doing s/sarah/xenial/ 17:39
El_Che yes, but I changed the upload mechanisch to create sarah and co on the repo
timotimo "feel free" 17:40
oh i was scrolled up
El_Che so in the next releases it should work out of the box
ownTheLibs nice
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Kaiepi where can i get a list of flapper tests? 17:57
AlexDaniel Kaiepi: oh… hmm 17:58
quotable6: ZOFF?LOP 17:59
quotable6 AlexDaniel, OK, working on it! This may take up to three minutes (4582161 messages to process)
AlexDaniel, 224 messages (2017-04-14⌁2018-04-28): gist.github.com/20546e30a6d33a518b...2e9845eda1 18:00
Kaiepi sweet thanks
AlexDaniel Kaiepi: note that it doesn't include the most recent ones
because irclog.perlgeek.de/ went down
the bot should be tweaked to use colabti.org/ instead 18:01
I guess…
Kaiepi oh 18:03
AlexDaniel it's a good list anyway 18:04
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Kaiepi timotimo ++ on that io::socket::async commit 18:26
working out how to get the server's fd's without being hacky's been the only thing keeping me from pullreqing 18:27
timotimo <3 18:30
jmaslak++ for nudging WRT the port thing 18:31
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timotimo would be good to know if it actually works right in every conceivable situation 18:38
i really only tested successful invocations (because it's hard to get a "port already in use" when using port 0) 18:39
oh, hm, my test code might actually not have been corretc!
El_Che port 0? 18:40
timotimo seems to work! 18:41
yup, port 0 asks the OS to give you a random free port to bind to
you were already able to use it, but you had no simple way to figure out what port you got
El_Che really?
timotimo it's true!
El_Che something on the OS level or rakudo specific?
timotimo the problem was rakudo specific 18:42
required changes in moarvm, nqp (for the java impl) and rakudo (to actually use the info it got)
El_Che sudo sshd -p 0
Bad port number.
timotimo that's probably sshd refusing to accept 0 18:43
but when you pass 0 to the bind function at the C level, it'll do what i described
El_Che interesting
timotimo i think this also usually happens for the local port when you connect to a server socket 18:44
i.e. you hardly ever have to worry about what port to use locally for an outgoing connection
El_Che timotimo: indeed, nc does it
nc -l 0
TCP *:46515 (LISTEN)
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robertle reminds me of something else: when binding a port through rakudo, I seem to be able to bind to only an ipv4 or an ipv6 interface, but not to both at the same time like I get with a posix bind() 18:51
so for example listen('localhost', 1234) will bind to ::1 on this machine, and to 127.0.0.1 at work, depending on system configuration. how can I bind to a port, but not to a specific address? 18:53
this would also cause trouble opn multi-address machines independently of ipv4/ipv6...
well, the 19:01
Kaiepi just binding to ::1 causes trouble on mine
i have to use 127.0.0.1 instead of localhost
robertle latter is a bit different, ignore that. but in general it seems strange that you have to supply a hostname
Kaiepi: I guess if you do that then you cannot connect remotely? with 0.0.0.0 you can connect remotely, but not over ipv6... 19:02
Kaiepi nope, my network doesn't support ipv6 19:04
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Kaiepi i'm planning on getting a 6to4 tunnel set up though 19:04
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Geth ecosystem: b7900214c4 | (Fernando Correa de Oliveira)++ (committed using GitHub Web editor) | META.list
Add SeqSplitter to the ecosystem

Adding github.com/FCO/SeqSplitter to the ecosystem		 19:05
robertle heh, I have the opposite problem: you can't get ipv4 connected (both ways) internet anymore...
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Kaiepi netbsd's failing a lot of tests in the stresstest so far 20:44
9 tests and it's around a third of the way through
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Kaiepi 5 not being floppers 20:55
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brrt \o #perl6 21:01
what is the correct way to install p6doc
i'm trying to do this with zef, and I can't
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warriors what errors are u getting 21:11
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brrt lemmesee 21:22
Aborting due to build failure: p6doc:ver<1.001001> (use --force-build to override) 21:23
warriors which Perl6 version do you have 21:33
to cut it short
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warriors i know they p6doc can fail because of some test that depend on perl6 2018 c 21:36
so upgrade to the latest Perl6 2018.c
and try again
:)
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Zoffix brrt: zef update 21:37
brrt i'll try zoffix 21:41
nope, that doesn't work 21:42
Zoffix brrt: what does `zef info p6doc` produce?
brrt: specifically, the version in `- Identity: p6doc:ver<1.002>` 21:43
brrt: basically your zef is getting too old a version somehow. `zef update` should've fixed it. You can try `zef --/cached --debug install p6doc` to ensure it's not using something from cache and to get more debug info out. If you don't wanna figure out why it's broken, `zef install github.com/perl6/doc.git` will work 21:48
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Zoffix m: "aa" ~~ /a a/ 21:58
camelia Potential difficulties:
Space is not significant here; please use quotes or :s (:sigspace) modifier (or, to suppress this warning, omit the space, or otherwise change the spacing)
at <tmp>:1
------> 3"aa" ~~ /a7⏏5 a/
Zoffix "or otherwise change the spacing" <--- like what? Changing by adding more spaces doesn't help
brrt i'll retry without cached
geekosaur fwiw I've been having the same problem, --/cached doesn't help 22:00
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warriors i also have a weird problem with p6doc, p6doc Str works on windows but not on linux, on linux it doesnt do anything 22:54
weirdness
actually on linux it tells me no such type 'Str' 22:56
geekosaur it's an error in the docs 23:07
I get: ===FATAL: Table 4 has a mixture of visible and invisible column-separator types. 23:08
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Geth doc: 25b80a9d29 | (Nick Logan)++ (committed using GitHub Web editor) | META6.json
Fix version continuity

  github.com/perl6/doc/commit/5bedf6...dc41441b8f changed the version to a format incompatible with prior versions. See:
  $ perl6 -e 'say Version.new("1.001001") cmp Version.new("1.002")'
More
... (5 more lines)		 23:34
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geekosaur yey 23:45
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Zoffix gah. I had the thought of doing the comparison, but thought .002 was obviously larger >_< 23:56
What is `cc` quote tweak used for? github.com/rakudo/rakudo/blob/mast....nqp#L5263 23:57
It's not in the docs. In code, I can only find it mentioned on the tr///, but trying to use it says it's not allowed
m: tr:c///
camelia No such method 'trans' for invocant of type 'Any'
in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1
Zoffix m: $_ = "x"; tr:c///
camelia ( no output )
Zoffix m: $_ = "x"; tr:cc///
camelia 5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>
Adverb cc not allowed on transliteration
at <tmp>:1
------> 3$_ = "x"; tr:cc///7⏏5<EOL>

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