pugscode.org <<Overview Journal Logs>> | r1773/winxp: 587/4256 smoke/win2k (occasional): xrl.us/fqum | pugs.kwiki.org Set by theorbtwo on 11 April 2005. |
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mugwump | I've written up a little "add an operator HOWTO" at pugs.kwiki.org/?PugsOperators | 00:00 | |
stevan | mugwump: very nice | 00:08 | |
markstos | mugwump: the screenshots were a nice touch. | 00:14 | |
stevan | autrijus: found a bug for you | 00:41 | |
pugs -e 'my %h = ("a" => 1, "b" => 2); say %h{"a"} <=> %h{"b"} ?? "true" :: "false"' | |||
errs with : No compatible subroutine found: &h | |||
and that is only the begining of the fun | |||
<, <= and <=> do not work/parse properly with lists and hashes | 00:42 | ||
see t/pugsbugs/spaceship_and_datatypes.t for more details | |||
I found this while adding more tests to t/builtins/list/sort.t | 00:44 | ||
jabbot | pugs - 1926 - adding tests to sort.t and a new pugsbug | 00:50 | |
mugwump orders a copy of TaPL & ATiTaPL | 01:29 | ||
nothingmuch | bwahahahahaa! | 01:33 | |
HTMLMatrix now does everything that testgraph.pl does, except for the stuff that it doesn't | 01:34 | ||
nothingmuch.woobling.org/mpeg_matrix.html | 02:13 | ||
nothingmuch.woobling.org/mock.html | 02:15 | ||
mugwump boggles to see he is 300 commits behind on the pugs tree | 02:45 | ||
crysflame | i like watching it | 02:47 | |
machack666 | what is the expected behavior with hyper operators when you are dealing with lists of different sizes? does it extend the shorter list, similar to the scalar promotion, or does it truncate the output list? | 03:04 | |
example: "say ((1..6) >>+<< (1,0))" yields the list (1,3). | 03:06 | ||
but the argument could be made for the (1,0) list to be expanded in several ways: (1,0,1,0,1,0) -- ie, repetition. | 03:07 | ||
or for a given operator, there is (may be) an identity element: 0, in this case. So it would expand to (1,0,0,0,0,0). | |||
Thoughts, anyone? | 03:08 | ||
mugwump | scanned p6l? you may have hit a corner case no-one's talked about yet | 03:11 | |
However, I would expect that code to generate lots of undef warnings | 03:13 | ||
machack666 | I may forward the question there... | ||
mugwump | and return (2,2,3,4,5,6) | ||
(as undef numifies to 0) | |||
machack666 | how about the case (1..6) >>*<< (2) ? (2,0,0,0,0,0) ? | 03:14 | |
for multiplication, you could want the unidentified elements untouched | 03:15 | ||
mugwump | sure, because AIUI you can use a variant on the hyperoperator to say only one side is hyper, | ||
ie | |||
(1..6) >>* 2 # or something like that | |||
machack666 | I guess I'm trying to resolve the auto-promotion of a scalar to a list in the hyper-op case | 03:16 | |
presumably if you've done something like (1..6) >>*<< 3 it means one thing, but if you do (1..6) >>*<< (3) -- or some calculated value in parens, say -- you get a different value than expected. | 03:17 | ||
you would either have to force scalar context on the rhs: (1..6) >>*<< +($a-$b) | 03:18 | ||
or automatically promote the shorter list to an appropriate length | |||
anyway, p6l is probably the appropriate place to discuss. Sorry for the off-topic | 03:19 | ||
mugwump | true, I suppose it's a list operator, not an array operator | ||
nothingmuch | ping? | 05:38 | |
kungfuftr: ping | 05:45 | ||
gaal | morning | 05:46 | |
nothingmuch | hola gaal | ||
did you see the table output? | |||
i wonder why we aren't just uising "<a title="tooltip"/> | 05:47 | ||
newlines? | |||
gaal | ah! a title="wonderful"! | ||
dunno | |||
though - as i said before, it woudl be great to ahve this cutandpastable | 05:48 | ||
(i know, can't do that w/o js) | |||
nothingmuch | =( | ||
gaal | hey! you solved the msieproblem! | ||
nothingmuch++ | |||
actually, it's probably not at all evil to use the title attrib, *and* add js that turns it into a selectable window. automatic graceful fallback! | 05:49 | ||
so just need to test this for newlines. | 05:50 | ||
speaking of which, your html doesn' | |||
t have them :) | |||
nothingmuch | i'll put it up soon | ||
i know | |||
160kb less for mpeg audio frame tests | |||
gaal | w00t | ||
nothingmuch | and mod_gzip gets 2x more | 05:51 | |
gaal | w0000t | ||
(though i find that surprising) | |||
nothingmuch | anyway, bbiab | ||
gaal | (it shgoud have compressed the old one much better) | ||
nothingmuch | i'll clean the code | ||
gaal | i have to go to $work now | ||
nothingmuch | it compress 460kb to 12kb | ||
gaal | see you later! | ||
nothingmuch | and 300kb to 8kb | 05:52 | |
ciao | |||
gaal | hasta luego | ||
06:37
castaway_ is now known as castaway
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ingy | hola | 07:03 | |
uploading new Perl6::Bible | |||
(say your prayers) | 07:04 | ||
castaway | ,) | ||
ingy | <---- sleepy time | ||
nighty | |||
castaway | night ingy | ||
nothingmuch | morning | 07:05 | |
castaway | mornin nm | 07:08 | |
Entwicklung | perl6 Bible ? | 07:11 | |
castaway | on cpan, a module containing the Synopses and Apoca-whatsits, basically | ||
Entwicklung | oh ok, i thought it was a new perl6 book | 07:13 | |
autrijus | greetings lambdacamels. this is but a short message saying I'll be off to $work for today and tomorrow, and try to find some time get PA02 outline done in between. I'll keep an eye on the irc log though. :) | 07:20 | |
& | |||
theorbtwo | Where's the darcs repo for testgraph & friends. | 08:01 | |
Juerd | gcom: pong | 08:03 | |
castaway | 15:50 < nothingmuch> darcs get nothingmuch.woobling.org/Test-TAP-Model | ||
theorbtwo | Thanks. | ||
castaway | (iek. /lastlog nothingmuch was a bit of an overkill search) | ||
nothingmuch | theorbtwo: testgraph is WIP | ||
i have to clean stuff up | 08:04 | ||
and i'm messing with CSS which is very slow progress | |||
castaway | WIP? | ||
nothingmuch | work in progress | ||
castaway | oh, work in progress | ||
theorbtwo nods. | 08:06 | ||
Looks to be a complete rewrite. | 08:07 | ||
nothingmuch | i hate hate hate css | 08:08 | |
theorbtwo: not exactly | |||
it's the good pieces taken out | 08:09 | ||
theorbtwo | nm: Everybody hates CSS. | ||
nothingmuch | but lots of refactoring | ||
theorbtwo | It's just better then the alternative. | ||
nothingmuch | it's so overly complicated | ||
except that if it went that far it should have been even more complicated | |||
theorbtwo | Oh, I don't think it's overly complicated as much as not quite complicated enough in two places. | ||
1: Positioning should take an xpath of what to be rel. to. | 08:10 | ||
nothingmuch | it's a very broad spec, with too little depth | ||
theorbtwo | 2: You should be able to say "class foo should format like class bar, except...". | ||
nothingmuch | my grudge has always been with block layout | ||
theorbtwo | Those two things would make it much more usable. | ||
nothingmuch | it's 100% voodoo | ||
theorbtwo | Yeah, that's what 1 is meant to fix. | ||
You end up with all sorts of tricks to say "put it /here/", where /here/ is where some other element is. | 08:11 | ||
nothingmuch | non breaking behavior | ||
in the little details, i mean | |||
margin, padding, border widths | |||
these are the things that have always frustrated me | |||
to tears | |||
theorbtwo | Hm, I don't have many problems with that, when I'm not being overly perfectionistic. | 08:12 | |
nothingmuch | say | ||
can you have a row whose columns are spaced as though independant from the other columns? | |||
theorbtwo | Use two sepperate tables. | ||
nothingmuch | that is if i have the columns in one row, and two in another, the columns of the second row have a colspan of 1.5 | 08:13 | |
i'm trying to work around that | |||
=) | |||
theorbtwo | Oh. | ||
Not quite independent, then. | |||
nothingmuch | it's giving me trouble that border-spacing can only sort of solve | ||
and i end up with yucky yucky fixes | |||
theorbtwo | Double the colspans everywhere, so that 1.5 becomes a 3, and a 1 becomes a 2. | ||
(So they're all integral.) | 08:14 | ||
castaway fetches tea and looks pointedly at theorbtwo. | |||
theorbtwo | Since the code is being generated by script, it's much less important that it be easy-to-write. | 08:15 | |
nothingmuch | i'm trying to reduce size | ||
testgraph.pl output is around 1mb last i checked | |||
i can pull it down to about 400k | 08:16 | ||
theorbtwo | That'd be impressive. | ||
nothingmuch | (since it's xhtml that works) | ||
and then another 25% by removing useless spaces | |||
(foo | xmllint --noblanks - > foo.xml) | |||
this makes it compress down to around 20k | |||
but it still takes a long while to render | |||
anyway, i think i'll give up trying to tweak this little diddly | 08:17 | ||
it's just really annoying that the little test case blocks have some spacing around them | |||
theorbtwo | If there's no spacing around them, how to you tell where one block stops and the next begins? | ||
nothingmuch | there's a border | 08:18 | |
table.m td { padding: 0; margin: 2px; } | |||
table.m { margin: 0; margin-bottom: 2px; border-spacing: 2px 0; empty-cells: hide } | |||
that's the best i can do | |||
the little cells are spaced between them | |||
but they act as one unit | |||
almost | 08:19 | ||
except that i have to pull weird tricks to control the margins of: the bottom most table (margin:0) | |||
the leftmost colum of ever table (margin-left: 0) and the ditto for the rightmosst | |||
theorbtwo | OK, I see what you're doing. | ||
nothingmuch | the last two are easy with CSS | ||
theorbtwo | More or less. | ||
nothingmuch | the table margin thing must be controlled within the templating and i hate doing stuff like that | 08:20 | |
it's just aweful to maintain | |||
theorbtwo shrugs. | |||
nothingmuch | i think i'll give up for now, leave that commented in the css | ||
and someone with more mojo might look at it later | 08:21 | ||
theorbtwo nods. | |||
Re making it smaller, I take it that you're using custom &foo;s to compress out the common bits? | 08:22 | ||
nothingmuch | custom what? | 08:23 | |
castaway | entities | ||
nothingmuch | ah, no | ||
classes are one char where possible | |||
there's less elements | |||
overall the structure is more concise | |||
that is all | |||
theorbtwo | Ah. | ||
castaway | html obfu? | ||
theorbtwo | Nifty. | ||
nothingmuch | castaway: actually more readable, IMHO ;-) | ||
theorbtwo | I wasn't optimizing for size or readability; I was optimizing for getting it out the door. | 08:24 | |
nothingmuch | nothingmuch.woobling.org/testgraph.petal | ||
castaway | generally one does | ||
nothingmuch | view source | 08:25 | |
otherwise it will probably try to be very witty and display it | |||
which sort of works anywho | |||
nothingmuch.woobling.org/mock.html | |||
theorbtwo | Oh, no wonder yours is so much simpiler; I was avoiding a title on purpose. | 08:27 | |
...and you don't have links. | |||
nothingmuch | i do have links | 08:28 | |
not for mock though | |||
since it's a p5 module | |||
if there is the possibility for a link, one is generated | |||
and why were you avoiding a title? | |||
i started with your <div>s, but they are not valid | |||
theorbtwo | Most browsers don't handle them with multiple lines. | ||
nothingmuch | hmm | ||
i think maybe we should try to get some hybrid solution for them | 08:29 | ||
theorbtwo | It wasn't until I tried viewing it on IE that I realized that multiple lines would be good in this context. | ||
nothingmuch | title normally | ||
but javascript + div if supported? | |||
theorbtwo | Ew, js. | ||
theorbtwo shrugs. | 08:30 | ||
nothingmuch | oh my | 08:31 | |
theorbtwo | Really, I'm more or less of a "whatever works" theory. | ||
But CSS seems to work with less work then JS. | |||
...and work better then a title. | |||
nothingmuch | but it's flakey | ||
browsers should die | |||
that's one place where I wouldn't mind monopoly | |||
css does | |||
on safari it looks pretty aweful | |||
not that it's easy to get it right | 08:32 | ||
castaway | looked better on Opera than firefox ,) | ||
theorbtwo | Hm, I haven't tested on safari at all, but it looked perfect on konq last I tried. | ||
nothingmuch | well, anway | ||
theorbtwo | Eh, not after a tiny workaround. | ||
castaway | :) | ||
castaway attempts to get some stuff done, in the hope that she can fit in some test writing after. | 08:33 | ||
theorbtwo actually gets some tea. | |||
shapr | gimme some tea! T! | ||
shapr boings | |||
shapr waves pom-poms | |||
castaway passes shapr some tea. | 08:34 | ||
mornin bouncy | |||
shapr slurps noisily | |||
Good morning! How ah yah? | |||
theorbtwo | Hey! | ||
castaway | not to bad.. pondering writing some tests | ||
theorbtwo | I thought you said you left me tea in the thermos! | 08:35 | |
castaway | I did ? | ||
I did ! | |||
theorbtwo | About 3mL. | ||
shapr | I didn't drink it! | ||
castaway | oops | ||
sowwy | |||
make new? | 08:36 | ||
nothingmuch | ok, now to refactor Model so that HTMLMatrix is cleaner | 08:37 | |
kungfuftr | *sob* | 09:06 | |
no more automated builds of pugs for me, my build machine just can't cope any more | |||
nothingmuch: looking good | 09:07 | ||
nothingmuch | kungfuftr: you can cut down prolly | 09:08 | |
consolidated smoking should be here real soon now | |||
sleep 1200 between each smoke, that should be good enough | |||
kungfuftr | nothingmuch: it takes 50 minutes to build and test puhs on my box | ||
=0) | |||
but it's now hitting swap | |||
=0) | 09:09 | ||
nothingmuch | ah | ||
that's aweful | |||
castaway | eep :) | 09:10 | |
kungfuftr needs to replace his server, it's a bit ancient | 09:12 | ||
gollem: OI | |||
nothingmuch: have you got Test::TAP on freepan? | 09:13 | ||
nothingmuch | kungfuftr: no, no releng work yet | ||
patches welcome for module::build madness | |||
copyrights | 09:14 | ||
etc | |||
nothingmuch is documenting and testing | |||
kungfuftr | nothingmuch: iirc you can just use freepan as an archive and then tag for release (for releng) | 09:17 | |
nothingmuch | kungfuftr: the code is up | ||
publicly | |||
if that's what you want | 09:18 | ||
kungfuftr | =0) | ||
nothingmuch | darcs get nothingmuch.woobling.org/Test-TAP-Model | ||
and soon nothingmuch.woobling.org/Test-TAP-V...HTMLMatrix | |||
kungfuftr | =0) | ||
nothingmuch | (doc blitz now) | ||
kungfuftr | tests?! | ||
nothingmuch | tests? | ||
! | 09:19 | ||
kungfuftr: ? | |||
kungfuftr hides | 09:20 | ||
nothingmuch | what did you mean? | ||
kungfuftr & work # damn javascript | 09:21 | ||
nothingmuch | dwheeler wrote Test::More for javascript | 09:22 | |
=) | |||
kungfuftr | fckeditor-- # confusing the shit outta me | ||
scw | Hi, there is a parse error but I cannot find out how it happens | 09:23 | |
castaway | is one where? | ||
scw | %h<a> < %h<b> being parsed as %h{'a'}{'%h<b'} | 09:24 | |
castaway | nice.. | ||
scw | seems like the qw literal eats trailing spaces but my last rivision didn't fix it | 09:25 | |
castaway | add a test for it? (I think someone had that recently) | ||
sure you're using the latest? | |||
scw | svn HEAD | ||
nothingmuch | wjat | ||
what's a good way to distributre an html and a css with a p5 module | 09:26 | ||
kungfuftr | nothingmuch: "htdocs" folder? | 09:29 | |
nothingmuch | and where will that be installed? | ||
kungfuftr | not sure | ||
nothingmuch | know of a module that does that? | 09:30 | |
kungfuftr | look at maypole to see how it handles it | ||
castaway | Makefile.PL has ways of installing things other than module stuff | 09:31 | |
nothingmuch | i don't want to step on anyone's feet | ||
castaway: the how is more simpler than the decisions themselves | |||
theorbtwo | I'd say just install them next to the .pm file. | ||
castaway | lots of things have extra templates etc.. | 09:32 | |
nothingmuch | is there a cheap way to find that? | ||
i can think of catfile(dirname($INC{__PACKGE__}), "template.html") | |||
castaway | most seem to stick them in the lib dir | ||
eg /usr/lib/perl5/site_perl/5.8.4/i686-linux-thread-multi/Prima/examples | 09:33 | ||
theorbtwo | That'd do it. | ||
castaway | shouldnt need to | ||
nothingmuch | search.cpan.org/~stro/FindBin-Real-1.04/Real.pm | ||
i'd like that per module =/ | |||
castaway looks for the other way | |||
theorbtwo | $INC{__PACKAGE__} should always be correct... I think. | 09:34 | |
nothingmuch | ingy: ping # you probably know a lot about this with all your crazy modules | 09:35 | |
Juerd | scw: Shouldn't <> inside <> nest properly anyway? | 09:36 | |
scw: i.e. < %h<b> needing another > to even be valid syntax | |||
castaway | his use Module::Install | ||
castaway cant find any sane ones | 09:39 | ||
Juerd | theorbtwo: That's $INC{+__PACKAGE__}. The + is needed to avoid unquoted string interpretation. | 09:40 | |
And isn't it filename instead of package? | 09:41 | ||
Foo/Bar.pm instead of Foo::Bar | |||
theorbtwo | Hm, that it is. | 09:44 | |
castaway | hmm, less */Makefile.PL is entertaining :) | 09:45 | |
theorbtwo | perl -e 'sub findininc {my $file=shift; foreach (@INC) {return "$_/$file" if -e "$_/$file"}}; print findininc("strict.pm")' | 09:46 | |
gaal_ | what's the simplest way to print a typeset verstion of the p6 bible? | 10:10 | |
e.g. how do you print plenty of pod (and make it look good)? | 10:11 | ||
Juerd | There's some pod-to-pdf project | 10:13 | |
They also publish ready to use pdf's of perldocs | 10:14 | ||
But I have no idea where to find it, so you'll have to google for it :) | |||
kungfuftr | pod2latex and pod2pdf are available | 10:18 | |
gaal_ | thanks | ||
kungfuftr | gaal_: search.cpan.org/~stas/Pod-HtmlPsPdf-0.04/ | 10:19 | |
gaal_ | stas++ | ||
nothingmuch | wait(lunch->pid); $? == E_DISAPPOINTING | 10:33 | |
darobin | hi | 10:46 | |
is there a Pugs FAQ before I bore everyone to death with compilation problems? | |||
nothingmuch | darobin: i doubt it will cover it | ||
jjjjjl | hi can someone help me, I have a popup_menu that users select a particular option, once the selects the option and submits the form, How do call a sub routine eqauling the selction made ? | ||
Juerd | jjjjjl: And all this in Perl 6? :) | 10:47 | |
nothingmuch | jjjjjl: you are probably using perl5 (#perl) and even then we need to know what you wrote it with | ||
darobin | nothingmuch: ok, it's just failing while compiling Lexer with RTLD_NEXT undefined (on OSX) | ||
castaway | dispatch table, jjjjjl | ||
Juerd | castaway: If they even knew what that is, would they have asked that question? :) | 10:48 | |
darobin | I can't possibly be the only one trying to build Pugs on OSX :) | ||
nothingmuch | darcs get nothingmuch.woobling.org/Test-TAP-V...HTMLMatrix | ||
castaway just grins | |||
nothingmuch | darobin: oone second | ||
what's your GHC version? | |||
castaway | Juerd: its about as understandable as the question :) | ||
darobin | 6.4 | ||
nothingmuch tries to figure out if RTLD_NEXT is from some external lib | 10:49 | ||
fink ghc? | |||
Juerd | castaway: Really? I first understood the question after reading the answer :) | ||
darobin | nothingmuch: no, grabbed it off the ghc page | ||
nothingmuch | that's what i'm using too | ||
and it worked for me | |||
so far | |||
darobin | weird | ||
nothingmuch | one minute | ||
castaway | Well I could be completely wrong. | 10:50 | |
rgs | hi darobin. | ||
darobin | hi! | 10:51 | |
nothingmuch | nm on pugs and the libraries it uses (otool -L) do not list 'RTLD_NEXT' | ||
darobin: what's your gcc_select? | 10:52 | ||
darobin | it's an ifdef, maybe if I set it to 0 it'll work | ||
2.6 | |||
nothingmuch | ghc uses gcc as a backend iirc, also on osx | ||
try 3.3 | |||
darobin | okay, thanks | 10:53 | |
nothingmuch | hmm | ||
has to do with dynamic loading | |||
are you trying to do anything with hs-plugins? | |||
i haven't tried that, and it could be the reason | 10:54 | ||
can you 'ld -ldl'? | |||
darobin | aha, I think I've found something | ||
jjjjjl | i did it in perl 5 | ||
nothingmuch | jjjjjl: so #perl is the channel to ask on | ||
castaway | jjjjjl: This is not a perl5 channel | ||
nothingmuch | jjjjjl: but you need to give them more info anyway | ||
darobin tries to see if his idea fixed it | 10:55 | ||
nothingmuch | darobin: what was your idea? | ||
darobin | I found an old .h that didn't have RTLD_NEXT and I'm thinking that it was picking up this one instead of the other which has it | 10:56 | |
nothingmuch | ah | ||
darobin | it's the kind of obvious thing you can only think of after having asked on IRC... | ||
nothingmuch | darobin++ | 10:57 | |
castaway | meetong o'clock, later folks | 10:58 | |
nothingmuch | ciao castaway | ||
theorbtwo gives castaway a quick kiss and sends her on her way. | 10:59 | ||
nothingmuch | theorbtwo: please download HTMLMatrix and run example.pl | 11:00 | |
oh wait, i have to update Test-TAP-Model | |||
darobin | hurrah, it builds, testing... | 11:02 | |
nothingmuch: thanks! | |||
nothingmuch | darobin: nothingmuch.woobling.org/pugs_test_status <-- results head revision, to save you some time, if you want | ||
darobin | nothingmuch: thanks, I'll run them to see if it matches | 11:03 | |
nothingmuch | i'm working on refactoring and releasing the tools which are used to create that stuff | 11:04 | |
those were the darcs repos i posted | |||
darobin now needs to find an excuse to play with Pugs | 11:08 | ||
nothingmuch | if you pull from both repos it should work now | 11:17 | |
i forgot to say: darcs push was done a while ago | |||
rgs | apparently #perl6 is the 63rd biggest channel on freenode | 11:25 | |
castaway returns (quick meetings)++ | 11:29 | ||
Hmm.. C-x o does "other-window", is there a way of getting to a specific window, when you have several? | 12:11 | ||
autark-jp | C-x b | 12:12 | |
castaway | thats buffer, not window | 12:13 | |
autark-jp | ah | ||
castaway | I want to go to it, not bring it to me .) | ||
nothingmuch | theorbtwo: i have to do some other stuff now | 12:15 | |
do you want to patch *TAP* for rel? | |||
copyright etc? | |||
if you do it i'll release it now | |||
castaway suddenly notices she asked in the wrong channel ,) | |||
nothingmuch | if you feel like bothing with Module::Build et al, you can just go ahead and release, period | 12:16 | |
stevan | nothingmuch: ping | 12:40 | |
nothingmuch | pong | ||
darcs get nothingmuch.woobling.org/Test-Tap-{...TMLMatrix} | 12:41 | ||
stevan | nothingmuch: yes I saw | ||
nothingmuch | comments? | 12:42 | |
stevan | nothingmuch: very impressed :) | ||
I was thinking, with the "where to put the HTML" question | 12:43 | ||
you might want to just put it as a __DATA__ section in a package | |||
nothingmuch | that complicates things with Petal | ||
stevan | and let perl figure out where it is | ||
nothingmuch | and i also want it to be accessible | ||
stevan | oh | ||
oh well.. it was a thought :) | |||
nothingmuch | it's a hackable template | ||
so i'd like to encourage hacking it | 12:44 | ||
i might resort to __DATA__ | |||
stevan | well if it is hackable,.. do you really want it in the perl libs dir? | ||
nothingmuch | but for now i'd like to try and find a more open solution | ||
stevan | perl -MTest::TAP::Visualize::Template -e get_template > ~/Desktop/my_template.petal | 12:45 | |
something like that | |||
so people can make their own copy easily | |||
nothingmuch | hmm | ||
good point | |||
stevan | ideally I would not want to mess with the perl INC dirs to change the tempalte | 12:46 | |
nothingmuch | i like that | ||
stevan | and be able to pull in my own from anywhere | ||
castaway | hmm,m have it like CPAN et al, it looks for a local $HOME/.XX version, else defaults to the one in lib ? | ||
nothingmuch | you don't need to | ||
stevan | :) | ||
nothingmuch | you can do that | ||
stevan | cool | ||
nothingmuch | just give it a Petal objec | ||
t | |||
and it will send it (page => $self) | 12:47 | ||
stevan | castaway: good idea too | ||
~/.test-tap-home | |||
nothingmuch | eek, i'm not writing a config system | ||
stevan | ok,.. version 0.02 we will do that :) | ||
nothingmuch | patches welcome either way | ||
castaway may look... (somewhen :) | 12:48 | ||
rob_ | hmm, just wondering what you guys would think of a distributed module service for perl6, much like zeroinstall, but taken a step further | 12:49 | |
stevan | scw: did r1932 fix the space eating problem? I was confused by your comments while reading the backlog | ||
castaway | distributed? didnt someone want to try that? | 12:50 | |
lots of "dont want to run modules from other peoples servers" complaints, iirc | |||
stevan | castaway: I agree,.. that makes me nervous | ||
rob_ | castaway: well but they dont have a problem with running from cpan | ||
stevan | rob_: but we download it local first | ||
castaway | rob_ you dont run from cpan, you download, install, run from locally | ||
stevan | rob_: it is less about malicious module authors | 12:51 | |
rob_ | so why not simply using cpan as a dispatcher, and only dispatch to "signed", confirmed, whatever modules | ||
stevan | and more about man-in-middle stuff | ||
castaway | that way you know what you have.. running from somewhere else at runtime, someone could change it, and you wouldnt know | ||
go read the perlmonks thread on it.. probably by gmpassos | |||
stevan | rob_: what happens if your server crashes during my mission critical program? | 12:52 | |
rob_ | stevan: you know zeroinstall? its much like that what i would like to see happen with perl modules | ||
castaway doesnt know it | |||
stevan | rob_: not familiar,... got links? | ||
rob_: this? zero-install.sourceforge.net/ | 12:53 | ||
rob_ | stevan: zero-install.sourceforge.net/ | ||
right :) | |||
i think thats a _very_ neat project and would really like to see it beeing used in some real world scenario | 12:54 | ||
stevan | rob_: it is very cool | ||
zero-install.sourceforge.net/security.html | |||
it says: No downloaded software is ever run as root, or as any user except the one who asked to run it. | 12:55 | ||
getting perl libs to cooperate like that might be hard | |||
rob_ | hmm. | ||
stevan | you would almost need to run them inside some kind of "jail" | ||
nothingmuch | i disagree | ||
i think there should be support for it | |||
but that it should not be "the" way | 12:56 | ||
stevan | rob_: I like the idea of distributed automatic installations | ||
nothingmuch | i think i have about 2000 lines of patches code in my @INC | ||
s/ed\b//; | |||
castaway | hmm, its interesting, yes.. | ||
nothingmuch | sometimes i need fine grained control of where | ||
or what | |||
i think a facility to install it | |||
castaway | As an optional WTDI, it could work | 12:57 | |
stevan | yeah,.. what nothingmuch said (which is much better than what I was typing) | ||
nothingmuch | like 'export PERL5OPT="-MCPAN::ZeroInstall"' | ||
stevan | rob_: give ingy and mugwump a ping and talk to them about FreePAN | ||
nothingmuch | but i don't want mission critical software falling to bits because of a slightly incompatible fix to a piece of software | ||
castaway | but as I said, may also be useful reading the perlmonks thread | ||
right, so you'd need to be able to specify exactly which versions of what to use/get | 12:58 | ||
rob_ | well, that should be done in the programm like 'use Foo:bar >=1.04' | 12:59 | |
or similar | |||
castaway | Also we do a bunch of stuff that gets installed on machines without internet connections, so still being able to bundle modules is a must | ||
nothingmuch | also, lots of times CPAN.pm and especially CPANPLUS just don't work: | ||
http proxy mess | 13:00 | ||
rob_ | castaway: sure that should not be the _standard_ way to go, but as an option it would be really nice | ||
nothingmuch | firewall rules | ||
mirror down | |||
permissions bad | |||
castaway | OTOH an easy way to install such a zeroinstall *server* here, would be nice to send out updates with :) | ||
yup, rob_, if you can get people over the security aspects | |||
nothingmuch | so when it happens it needs to be very robust | ||
transactionally designed | 13:01 | ||
castaway | nm, it only has to fetch once, after that it stays 'installed' | ||
stevan | nothingmuch: transactional ++ | ||
nothingmuch | allowing deterministic manual intervention | ||
on the first go it might break | |||
and if it breaks, you most definately don't want it to be stuck broken | |||
castaway | sure | ||
nothingmuch | so detection of breakage should be very pedantic | ||
and should be revertable | |||
castaway | yesindeedy | ||
nothingmuch | and so on and so forth | ||
stevan | support for the "if is aint broke, dont fix it crowd" | ||
nothingmuch | it could be useful, but only if it's done absolutely right | 13:02 | |
stevan | I know myself there are some servers where I dont want to update | ||
castaway thinks rob_ should go off and write a spec :) | |||
nothingmuch | btw, rob_ eq dargonchild? | 13:04 | |
stevan | nothingmuch: I dont think so (he is at work, rob_ seems to be on a dialin) | ||
rob_ | damn, my ssh tunnel just broke. | 13:26 | |
nothingmuch hates when that happens | |||
rob_ | nothingmuch: no, rob_ != dargonchild | ||
mj | any volunteers? WinXP File::Spec abs2rel: | 13:36 | |
pugs -e "use File::Spec; say 'begin'; say abs2rel( '\a' , '\b' ); say 'end';" # begin <Inf loop> | |||
perl -e "use File::Spec::Functions qw(abs2rel); print abs2rel( '\a' , '\b' );" # ..\a | |||
stevan | mj: I havent had time to look at it, but feel free if you want to try | 13:54 | |
and let me know if you need commit access, and I can set you up | |||
mj | i have one as rootmj | 13:58 | |
some porting and then i can try | 13:59 | ||
ninereasons | eep. hangman is broken :( that will never do. | ||
mj | perl -e "use File::Spec::Functions; print catfile( '' ,'a' );" # \a | 14:12 | |
pugs -e "use File::Spec; print catfile( '' , 'a' );" # \\\a | |||
kungfuftr | ie-- # caching git | ||
apache++ # get ie to behave properly | |||
ninereasons | is the start of the array index invariable in perl6 ? S28draft sounds to me like $[ is going away and probably not being replaced ? | 14:24 | |
masak | ninereasons: is there a need to keep it variable? | ||
PerlJam | ninereasons: yes. arrays always start at 0 | ||
castaway | hooray :) | 14:25 | |
ninereasons | I don't think so; but it's been drummed into me that the end of the array in perl is $#a not necessarily @a-1 | ||
^masak | |||
hooray, PerlJam | |||
castaway | well unlearn it :) (plus those terms change anyway) | ||
wolverian | @a.last (.end?) | 14:26 | |
ninereasons | gladly, castaway :) | ||
@a.end | |||
wolverian | are there .head and .tail, by the way? | ||
(the functional me speaking..) | 14:27 | ||
castaway | .end | ||
would be nice :) | |||
PerlJam | wolverian: I don't think so. | ||
Could be though. | |||
wolverian | PerlJam: is it a made decision, or just something that hasn't come up? | ||
PerlJam | Wouldn't take much to implement | ||
ninereasons | .end is specced i believe, castaway | ||
PerlJam | wolverian: I don't think I've seen anyone mention it, but that doesn't mean it hasn't come up | ||
ninereasons: yeah, last I checked we has .begin and .end | 14:28 | ||
s/has/had/ | |||
But my head has it those were subject to change | |||
wolverian | method List::head { .[0] } method List::tail { .[1...] } # works? :) | ||
PerlJam | (well, more subject to change than anything else I mean ;-) | ||
mj | # load text from fiel ... better solutions? | ||
for (=$tut_fh) -> $line { | |||
$file_t ~= $line; | |||
} | |||
wolverian | mj: slurp() | 14:29 | |
if it's implemented, anyway. :) | |||
mj | great, slurp rules | 14:31 | |
wolverian slurps mj | |||
xern | anyone used Regexp::Parser before? | 14:36 | |
gugod | orz ōæ½xAAōæ½xBAōæ½xBFōæ½xF9ōæ½xBB~ōæ½xA5ĪŖk | 14:37 | |
outch | |||
sorry, wrong channel | |||
xern | i'm planning to write a conversion tool for p5regexp to p6regexp | ||
Orz.... | |||
which will be embedded in p5_to_p6.pl | |||
PerlJam | xern: good luck! | ||
castaway | (that looked like p6 operators tho) | ||
hmm, is that part of the YAPE explain thingy? | |||
xern | PerlJam: thanks | 14:38 | |
castaway: what looks like p6 op? | 14:39 | ||
castaway | the stuff that gugod just pasted :) | ||
xern | i see | ||
stevan | ninereasons: I suspect hangman is broken because the AUTHORs file changes | 14:40 | |
ninereasons | do you think so? I still haven't had a chance to look at it, stevan; | 14:41 | |
xern | castaway: it's a ascii glyph mimicking someone kneeling on the floor, commonly used in zh-tw community now | ||
stevan | looking now | ||
ninereasons | it appeared to me though as though maybe pick_committer wasn't working | ||
stevan | ninereasons: nope I was wrong | 14:42 | |
ninereasons | rats. i liked that possibility better. | 14:43 | |
stevan | any(@committers).pick is broken | ||
it returns all of them :) | |||
castaway | oops :) | 14:44 | |
ninereasons | that's what it looked like to me | ||
from the output | |||
How about if I change it to rand, temporarily? | |||
stevan | ninereasons: let me see if I can isolate the pick issue | ||
ninereasons | better yet. | ||
stevan | hmm t/junction/misc_junctions.t works | 14:45 | |
must be .pick() | |||
ninereasons | so it's not any, it's pick | ||
jinx | |||
stevan | examples/junctions/lottery_numbers.p6 works | 14:46 | |
so it looks like any().pick is not working | |||
but my $j = any(); $j.pick does | |||
stevan writes up a test case | |||
ninereasons | a naive substitution of $j.pick doesn't work. | 14:50 | |
stevan | pugs -e 'say any(1 .. 100).pick()' | ||
that works | |||
hmmm | |||
ninereasons | strange. | ||
stevan | (the plot thickens | ||
ninereasons likes perl6.vim - very pretty. | 14:52 | ||
mj | and slurp equivalent for save ? | 14:53 | |
scw | Juerd: I don't know, in fact. I just modifyed existing code # 17:36 | ||
mj | open, pritn FH $text; close; | ||
scw | stevan: Err, only in string interpolate # 20:49 | 14:54 | |
Ouch, I forgot I'm in +0800.. | |||
stevan | very strange | 14:59 | |
pugs -e 'my @a = ("one", "two", "three"); sub foo (@a) { my $t = any(@a).pick(); say ref($t); say $t }; foo(@a)' | |||
returns: | |||
Array | |||
one two three | |||
s/returns/prints/ | |||
but yet : pugs -e 'my @a = ("one", "two", "three"); my $t = any(@a).pick(); say ref($t); say $t' | 15:00 | ||
does the right thting | |||
castaway boggles | |||
stevan | just changing line 111 to this: | 15:01 | |
my $current_committer = any(@committers).pick(); #pick_committer(@committers); | |||
makes hangman work | |||
ninereasons | shouldn't it work as is? | 15:02 | |
what's the difference between returning the product of any, and returning any()'s product? | 15:03 | ||
stevan | ninereasons: it seems to have something to do with being executed inside a sub | ||
(really odd) | |||
ninereasons | yes, stevan | 15:04 | |
stevan | ninereasons: even stranger | 15:07 | |
pugs -e 'sub foo2 { any(1 .. 10).pick() }; say foo2()' | |||
works | |||
ninereasons | integer list? | 15:08 | |
stevan | no,.. one int | 15:09 | |
mj | how to grab STDOUT and STERR with pugs? | ||
ninereasons | I mean, the argument to pick | ||
er.. any | |||
stevan | ninereasons: ? i dint understand? | ||
ninereasons | nvmind - I'm grasping at straws | ||
stevan | ninereasons: no I understand now | 15:10 | |
no the int fails as well | |||
ninereasons | yeah, i saw here too | ||
stevan | it seems to be something related to array args and such | 15:11 | |
ninereasons | my @a = (1..3); sub foo (@a) { my $t = any(1..3).pick(); say ref($t); say $t }; foo(@a) | 15:12 | |
stevan | ninereasons: see t/pugsbugs/junction_any_pick.t | ||
ninereasons | Int : 3 | ||
stevan | weird | 15:13 | |
add to the test case | |||
please :)( | |||
ninereasons | need to clean it up; i put nonsense in it | ||
stevan | ninereasons: svn revert is your friend :) | 15:14 | |
ninereasons | it's the same as your last test case, when you subtract the nonsense, stevan. | 15:16 | |
stevan | ninereasons: add the passing one though (that worked) | 15:17 | |
mj | pugs -e "my $out; open $*OUT,'>', \$out;" | ||
pugs: cannot cast from VHandle {handle: <stdout>} to [Char] | |||
stevan | mj: not sure that works yet | ||
mj: what exactly are you doing? sounds like something interesting.. | 15:18 | ||
mj | so tutorial porting stopped .... wiki.kn.vutbr.cz/mj/attach/pugs/tut...ad.p6.html | ||
stevan | mj: very cool | 15:19 | |
ninereasons | got it: | ||
sub foo (@a) { my $t = any(@a).pick(); say ref($t); say $t }; foo(1..3) | |||
stevan | that works? | ||
ninereasons | Int | 15:20 | |
2 | |||
max weird :) | |||
stevan | ninereasons: very nice | ||
please add the passing case to the t/pugsbugs/junctions_any_pick.t and fix hangman to use that :) | |||
(and make sure to add yourself to the hangman authors list | |||
ninereasons | some generous person has already added me, stevan | 15:23 | |
stevan | svn blame must have listed you | 15:24 | |
ninereasons: you cant hide form svn :) | |||
ninereasons | :) | 15:25 | |
ooh. much nicer: | 15:27 | ||
my @b = (1..3); sub foo (@a) { my $t = any(@a).pick(); say ref($t); say $t }; foo(*@b); | |||
Int | |||
3 | |||
there's the bug, then | |||
diff @b *@b | 15:28 | ||
stevan | ninereasons++ | 15:29 | |
ninereasons | eek. karma scares me | 15:30 | |
stevan | why? | ||
nothingmuch | perlbot karma ninereasons: | ||
perlbot | ninereasons: doesn't have any karma | ||
nothingmuch | eh? | ||
perlbot karma ninereasons | |||
perlbot | Karma for ninereasons: 1 | ||
nothingmuch | what's so scary? | ||
ninereasons | doom and karma are wed in my mind ;) | 15:31 | |
nothingmuch | ninereasons-- | ||
stevan | doom the game? or doom as in "impending doom" | ||
nothingmuch | better? ;-) | ||
mj41 | mj is waiting for io_redirect_to_scalar | 15:32 | |
ninereasons | better :) | 15:33 | |
nothingmuch waits patiently | 15:34 | ||
mj41: ping | |||
i won't leave you alone till you tell me what that example does | 15:35 | ||
ninereasons | sorry stevan; in conference | 15:37 | |
doom as in en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karma | |||
mj41 | I can probably replace open $*OUT,">", \$out; open $*OUT,">", \$err; my $status = eval $new_pl; | 15:39 | |
with system('pugs > out.tmp'); | |||
autrijus | mj41: src/Types/Handle.hs is the class api | ||
but I had not implemented them fully in AST.hs | |||
mj41: you fancy learning some haskell? :) | |||
if not, just wait until this weekend and I'll pick up | |||
mj41 | ok, thanks, system is good enought for now | 15:40 | |
nothingmuch | mj41: you are cruel | ||
mj41 | why? I think my English is cruel, not me. | 15:41 | |
nothingmuch | i just want to know what that example from yesterday was | ||
please please tell me | 15:42 | ||
mj41 | which example? | ||
nothingmuch | where you iterate $i and $i+1 at the same time | ||
gaal_ | zip. by2 | 15:48 | |
(nm that was for you) | 15:49 | ||
ninereasons | stevan, did you want me to use that success case to edit hangman? | ||
gaal_ | actually, no | 15:50 | |
just take two every time | |||
ninereasons | stevan, or leave the assignment to $current_committer outside of the sub, as you have it now? | ||
stevan | ninereasons: sure | ||
gaal_ | nm did you have the boustrophedon example in mind? | 15:51 | |
wolverian | mj41: open returns the filehandle in p6 | 15:52 | |
pasteling | "mj" at 147.229.221.107 pasted "interate $i ?" (11 lines, 389B) at sial.org/pbot/9296 | ||
jez | 'Beginning Perl' suggests that it'd be more secure to set certain environment variables before calling DBI->connect() so that the pieces of connection information don't have to be specified directly in the connect() call. My question is simple - how is that more secure? | 15:55 | |
wolverian | are you sure this is the right channel to ask that? | 15:56 | |
Corion | [jez]: You don't store the connection data in the script itself, or in the command line (which shows up via top) | ||
... but #perl6 is not the place to ask Perl5 usage questions, especially for (well documented) modules | |||
jez | perl6's default mode is perl5 compatibility ;-P | ||
Corion | jez: But there is no DBI.pm for Perl6 yet. | 15:57 | |
stevan | jez: actually it isnt :) | ||
Corion | jez: But if you plan on porting it, I suggest you wait until we get objects | ||
jez | i wanted to make a suggestion for perl 6. | 15:58 | |
autrijus | so, objects. | ||
jez | if you're going to verhaul the language, how about changing 'last' to 'break'? | ||
autrijus | what should I work on first when I get next batch of tuits? :) | ||
jez | i don't like the keyword last :-) | ||
or, how about aliasing 'break' to 'last' | |||
stevan | jez: suggestions go to perl6-language | ||
autrijus | &last ::= &break; | ||
jez | yes, do that implicitly | 15:59 | |
:-) | |||
autrijus | macro last is parsed rx// { return 'break' }; | ||
wolverian | hmm. isn't the [] around the <a b c> in mj41's paste unnecessary? | ||
autrijus | err, the other way around. | ||
wolverian | that is, is <a b c> a ref in scalar context? | ||
autrijus | jez: see, one good thing of perl6 is you get to define your dialects without imposing it on me :) | ||
jez | bleh, i can do that in C, but it annoyingly means i have to put that code in all of my programs | 16:00 | |
autrijus wants to call it "esc" | |||
jez | why not make it a default perl keyword, break isnt currently used is it? | ||
whats wrong with aliasing it/ | |||
autrijus | jez: I imagine some people name their subroutines break(). | ||
and aliasing it will cause them to break(). | |||
jez | their problem, that'll be perl 5 code anyway | ||
autrijus | pun intended. ;) | ||
jez | perl 6 code would prohibit that | ||
autrijus | jez: cool. put macros and tests to t/Dialects/ | 16:01 | |
suggestions to p6l. | |||
jez | are you saying perl 6 adds no new keywords? | ||
autrijus | <- not language designer | ||
wolverian | jez: suggest this on perl6-language. | ||
jez | where is that | ||
wolverian | jez: we're not the people to make language decisions. | ||
autrijus | jez: I'm saying I'm this implementatino monkey :) | ||
wolverian | jez: [email@hidden.address] | ||
(add -subscribe to, uh, subscribe. :) | 16:02 | ||
ninereasons | <autrijus> what should I work on first when I get next batch of tuits? :) | ||
wolverian | also dev.perl.org/perl6/lists/ | ||
stevan | autrijus: I think that making multi-subs dispatch on type would be a good thing | ||
autrijus: see t/subroutines/multi_sub.t | |||
ninereasons | how about negative indexes, autrijus? | ||
jez | *searches email archive*. ah yes, seems i already suggested it. | ||
though, i suggested it in comp.lang.perl.misc,comp.lang.perl | |||
is that sort of equivalent to the mailing list? | 16:03 | ||
wolverian | no. | ||
(at all.) | |||
jez | hmm | 16:04 | |
can i see archives of the list? | |||
wanna see if someone else mentioned it | |||
wolverian | groups.google.com archives it | ||
although it has interface issues. let me get the real link. | 16:05 | ||
jez | it's a usenet group? | ||
wolverian | groups-beta.google.com/group/perl.p....language/ | ||
jez | it looked like a mailing lisat | ||
wolverian | no, it's just kind of mirrored. :) | ||
(on google.) | |||
jez | hte group or the list?> | ||
wolverian | I mean, it is a mailing lists. | ||
jez | o | ||
wolverian | s,lists,list, | ||
hmm. is it ok that pugs installs libs to /usr/lib/perl6/5.8/* | 16:08 | ||
that seems.. odd. | |||
autrijus | mm, negative index | ||
which test tests that? | |||
ninereasons | there must be something in arrays. | 16:09 | |
checking | |||
wolverian | (I mean the 5.8 part.) | ||
autrijus | wolverian: I agree. | ||
however I don't see that :) | |||
autrijus thinks | |||
wolverian | well, it happened here. :) | ||
autrijus | wolverian: well, /util/PugsConfig.pm line 138 is all yours | 16:10 | |
wolverian | agh! it's haskell! | 16:11 | |
ninereasons | howaboutthat, not a single negative index test in array.t, autrijus | ||
stevan | oooo then do mine :) | 16:13 | |
I have tests :) | |||
ninereasons | t/subroutines/multi_sub.t wins the horserace | ||
jez | see i never saw the problem with goto. :-) | ||
has that been removed from perl6? | |||
as long as you only ever use it in place of something like last MYLOOP | 16:14 | ||
stevan | jez; no | ||
jez | i don't like the semantics of 'last' | ||
my mind thinks 'make this the last iteration of this loop' | |||
which would be the logical equivalent to next | |||
ninereasons | logical corrolary | ||
jez | yes | 16:15 | |
ninereasons | corollary ;) | ||
wolverian | I never liked 'last' either. it reads to me like 'go to the last iteration'. | ||
autrijus | ninereasons: not a good excuse. write tests! trade tests for feature! | ||
ninereasons | autrijus, sir, yes sir! | ||
stevan | autrijus++ # implementing the barter system | ||
autrijus | ninereasons++ | 16:16 | |
jez | um, could anyone point me to thread(s) on the perl6-language list that discuss the changing in perl 6 of variable type symbol usage? ($,@,%) | ||
wolverian | <a b c>.kv fails. | ||
jez: I'd just read the apocalypse. | 16:17 | ||
stevan | jez: not sure that was ever up for discussion | ||
wolverian | also, qw() shouldn't really work, since it's a sub call. mm. I should just see if there are tests for these. :/ I'm not used to this test driven development thing! | 16:18 | |
Corion | I think the more consistent use of sigils was one of the first things decided | ||
(as it is the most confusing thing for new beginners) | |||
wolverian | I seem to remember so as well. | 16:19 | |
16:19
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ninereasons | did we learn what should happen when we say, '@a = 1..Inf; say @a[-1]' ? | 16:21 | |
autrijus | yes; it makes you wait a long while. | 16:22 | |
wolverian | wait for the universe to end? :) | ||
autrijus | at least, I don't see a better implementation. | ||
ninereasons | shouldn't it automatically "shorten()" or curry (if that's the right terminology) | ||
? | |||
or die horribly? | 16:23 | ||
autrijus | we may implement die horribly later. | ||
anything else is probably the bad idea. | |||
16:23
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wolverian | the .kv tests don't test <a b c>.kv. I could add that, I suppose! | 16:23 | |
added a test. | 16:27 | ||
gaal_ | beh, what is that even supposed to mean? | 16:28 | |
wolverian | my $array = <a b c>; $array.kv | ||
gaal_ | and what is it supposed to mean if there's an even amount of elements? | ||
oh wait kv doesn't return pairs; pairs does. | |||
wolverian | yes! | 16:29 | |
Khisanth | what is .kv for arrays? | 16:30 | |
index and values? | |||
wolverian | Khisanth: yes. | ||
autrijus: I guess I could ask for commit access now that I have this test added. | |||
autrijus | wolverian: what, you're not a committer? | ||
wolverian | no, I'm not. | ||
autrijus | that's a crime. :) your email? | ||
wolverian | [email@hidden.address] | 16:31 | |
autrijus | very nice domain. | ||
wolverian | thankyou. :) | ||
autrijus | invitation sent; welcome aboard. | ||
wolverian | I want to go on the balcony and yell incoherently a bit. I think I'm taking this a bit too seriously, maybe. | 16:32 | |
autrijus | that's fine. we will wait :) | ||
(yell incoherently)++ | |||
mj41 | say( ('-' x 60) ~ "\n" ~ $out ~ "\n" ~ ('-' x 60) ); | ||
say ('-' x 60) ~ "\n" ~ $out ~ "\n" ~ ('-' x 60); # ee | |||
autrijus | mj41: what's wrong with that? | 16:33 | |
Corion | mj41: Well, under Perl5 you would have got a warning about that | ||
autrijus: I guess it prints "1" ~ "\n" ~ $out | |||
(and so on) | |||
wolverian | I'll go buy some cat food and commit once I'm back. bye. | 16:34 | |
Corion | because the parentheses bind directly onto the say() call | ||
wolverian | I thought perl6 has a whitespace rule that makes those lines equivalent. | ||
okay, gone. -> | |||
mj41 | so say ~('-' x 60) ~ "\n" ~ $out ~ "\n" ~ ('-' x 60); # DWIM | 16:40 | |
putter | what is the syntax for "unusual" sub names? eg, sub empty? () {...}. currently this doesnt parse. the docs give examples of such operators, but no subs/methods/etc. foo? <<foo?>> something else? | 16:43 | |
ninereasons | then, remove the parens, mj41 | ||
mj41 | :-) thanks | 16:47 | |
ninereasons | :) | ||
mj41 | pugs template toolkit wanted :-) | 17:07 | |
autrijus | ooh I see array.t | 17:13 | |
ninereasons++ | |||
"trade tests for feature" mode activated. | 17:14 | ||
tests passes; it's implemented now as r1942; enjoy. | |||
Limbic_Region | one minute turnaround from test presence to feature implementation | 17:16 | |
Limbic_Region debates writing several tests while autrijus is in the "trade tests for feature" mode | |||
autrijus | noooo! I'm in this "deadline approaching, must write perl5 code for a living" mode | 17:19 | |
Juerd | scw: Times are rather pointless without timezone. | ||
scw: And really, many geeks don't live in normal time :) | |||
kungfuftr | ullo all | 17:23 | |
ninereasons | negative indices++ ; | ||
Odin- | Juerd: What is normal, anyway? | 17:24 | |
(UTC, naturally. That's the "standard time". ;) | |||
kungfuftr | UTC/GMT | 17:28 | |
seen nothingmuch | |||
jabbot | kungfuftr: nothingmuch was seen on Wed Apr 13 15:42:45 2005 GMT | ||
kungfuftr | bah | 17:30 | |
autrijus | I want more tests for neg idx on lvalue context | 17:31 | |
and on exists, on delete. | |||
any takers? :) | |||
(it's actually a quite complicated problem.) | |||
kungfuftr | bah, darc is brokn | 17:32 | |
ninereasons | I'll add some neg idx tests when i have a minute | ||
Corion | r1937 - datenzoo.de/pugs/win2k.html | 17:41 | |
autrijus | hmm, nm's new code has a final line of summary/subtotals | 17:43 | |
stevan | horay I am finally registered for YAPC::NA | 17:44 | |
stevan has been lazy/pugs-obsessed lately | |||
kungfuftr | when's nothingmuch usually about? | 17:48 | |
stevan | kungfuftr: hard to say,.. some days he never sleeps | 17:56 | |
kungfuftr | heh | 17:57 | |
no petal ports... dammit | |||
ninereasons | isn't that one of Ovid's favored projects, kungfuftr ? | 17:59 | |
kungfuftr | no idea off hand | ||
ninereasons | I'm actually a little more sure than i let on. it is one of his favored projects :) | 18:00 | |
you might pounce him when he's about, and see what how he's progressing | 18:01 | ||
kungfuftr | ah | ||
=0/ | |||
Corion | r1944 - datenzoo.de/pugs/win2k.html | ||
tiw | hi all | 18:16 | |
Corion | pugscode.org <<Overview Journal Logs>> | r1773/winxp: 587/4256 smoke/win2k (occasional): xrl.us/fqum (10/4279) | pugs.kwiki.org | 18:18 | |
jez | heh | 18:19 | |
"It's difficult to deal with any subset of Unicode without naming it. These days, if you see [a-z] in a program, it's probably an outright bug." | |||
what exactly does Larry mean by that? | |||
tiw | how to dereference a array reference in perl6, i try @$ar and @{$ar} but none of them works | ||
PerlJam | jez: using a named character class rather than a-z. e.g., [:alpha:] or [:alnum:] etc. | 18:20 | |
gcom | jez: a-z assumes pretty much english (or romaji ;) ) only | ||
PerlJam | tiw: that action is no longer needed. $ar[0] is the same as @a[0] if $ar = @a; | 18:21 | |
jez: sorry I don't happen to know any fancy unicode names to use as examples :) | |||
tiw | PerlJam: but @a = $ar, just copy $ar to the first element of @a | 18:22 | |
PerlJam | tiw: oh, good point. Hmm. | ||
jez | gcom: true, but some of us only speak English :-) | ||
and only care about coding for English | |||
theorbtwo | It also doesn't catch the proper spelling of, say, that thing you hand a potential employer that isn't quite a CV. | 18:23 | |
PerlJam | jez: and that's so last century. Perl6 is about the 21st century and beyond. | ||
ninereasons | autrijus, did you see my hat trick? | 18:24 | |
PerlJam | tiw: I think you should ask on p6l. That may be one of those areas that isn't quite ironed out. | ||
gcom | jez: isn't the point of view that's being suggested as a "bug" (i do [a-z0-9] all the time btw, lazy habit, but i agree in principle with what i think L is saying | ||
jez: and yeah, usually there are records or inputs that i'm losing by allowing the bug in my code | 18:25 | ||
tiw | PerlJam: i am reading perl6 and parrot, in it @$ra and @{$ra} are used to dereference | ||
PerlJam | tiw: Then, I guess it just hasn't been implemented yet. | 18:26 | |
castaway | even english has occasional accented chars in it | ||
PerlJam | castaway: and ligatures and whatnot if you're talking about the queen's english. | ||
castaway | liga-whats? ;) | ||
jez | cast: if that's the case then how is :alpha: gonna help? | 18:27 | |
castaway | it contains accented chars | ||
jez | btw, i think saying that coding with the assumption that Roman characters are going to be used is last century is pretty stupid. :-) | 18:28 | |
sorry, we're all suddenly using foreign characters now? | |||
ninereasons | we're all the sudden using unicode | ||
PerlJam | jez: no, coding with the assumption that non-latin characters *won't* be used is pretty stupid. | ||
ninereasons | perl6 is a language written in unicode | ||
castaway | not all of a sudden no, have been for years | ||
jez | unicode doesnt have one single standard | 18:29 | |
theorbtwo | Yes, it does. | ||
It doesn't have one single /encoding/, but we're talking one level above encoding at present. | |||
PerlJam is >this< close to flipping the bozo bit on jez out of shear annoyance :) | |||
jez | is a unicode char always 2 bytes? | 18:30 | |
theorbtwo | No. | ||
PerlJam | no | ||
jez | but it can be 2 bytes | 18:31 | |
PerlJam | certainly. | ||
castaway | depends on the encoding | ||
theorbtwo | Well, it can be usually two bytes. | ||
It'll sometimes be four, even in utf-16. | |||
jez is glad he won't be deal with that in C. | 18:32 | ||
*dealing | |||
theorbtwo | (ucs-2 is never four-byte, technically speaking, but it doesn't encode all of unicode, so don't use it.) | ||
jez | the problem i have with Unicode is it's necessarily damn complex, ASCII isnt | ||
PerlJam | the point remains though that you aren't in kansas anymore (unless you specifically want to be ;-) | ||
jez | you can't really overcome that one | ||
theorbtwo | No, you can't. | ||
gcom thinks .chars is a pretty clean way to handle the complexity | 18:33 | ||
PerlJam | jez: unicode and ascii intersect nicely. Choose your level of poison. | ||
jez | actually you could if they'd made every unicode char 4 bytes | ||
:-) | |||
theorbtwo | But ASCII is simple precisely because it throws out the languages spoken by at least 80% of the world. | ||
...and throws out 5% of the language spoken by the other 20%. | |||
jez | mmmhmm, but a large part of that 20% of the world also throws out those languages | 18:34 | |
:-) | |||
gcom | reverse 80/20 rule, hehe | ||
jez | that's the point | ||
gcom | call that 20/80 | ||
PerlJam | random fact: IBM at one time was promoting both EBCDIC and ASCII "standards" | ||
jez | why bother with foreign characters when you're not coding for foreign languages? | ||
PerlJam | jez: right. If you want to live in that sandbox, you can. | 18:35 | |
jez | *chuckles* how is that a sandbox? | ||
tiw | PerlJam: Can not find test about dereference :-( | ||
castaway | because, as mentioned, english has some too. | ||
theorbtwo | Because you still have to think what you're going to do when somebody tries to spell rƩsume correctly. | ||
jez | i'm talking more than a few accents; greek, chinese, japanese, korean, arabic... etc | 18:36 | |
castaway | because upi'll get a shock should you ever want to locaise something | ||
theorbtwo | If you punt safely, you've already done 90% of the work needed to just support it. | ||
PerlJam | jez: Because the rest of the world is interacting with each other and that means that if you've restricted yourself to ASCII, you've decided you aren't playing with the rest of the world. You're in your own little sandbox. | ||
castaway | "you'll" | ||
PerlJam | jez: There's nothing wrong with that mind you. I expect that there will be many sandboxes that spring up around the world. | ||
jez | perl: i'm not interacting with them anyway, i only speak English competently. few people speak more than 2 or 3 languages well | ||
theorbtwo | jez, supporting Ć© correctly isn't harder then supporting greek, chinese, japanese, korean, arabic, etc, for many applications. | ||
jez | but it's a lot harder than supporting ASCII ;-) | 18:37 | |
PerlJam | jez: but perl6 supports the global view generally and the local view as a specialization. | ||
Aankhen`` | ōæ½xABjezōæ½xBB: You're restricting every one of your users to English too. | ||
theorbtwo | Not if you're using perl6, it doesn't. | ||
Aankhen`` | And that's not a decision you ought to be taking for them. | ||
theorbtwo | Er, it isn't. | ||
jez | anak: oh i dunno... this world would be better with a single language. :-) | ||
castaway | you're not interacting, your software may be | 18:38 | |
jez | much less hassle | ||
Aankhen`` | Yeesh. | ||
PerlJam | Aankhen``: let him make that decision. As soon as he writes some useful software he'll find out that there are people in China or India or Germany or where ever that want to use it. | ||
jez | I'd learn Esperanto if everyone else did. :-) | ||
Aankhen`` | Try this, jez: type in 'Aank' and press Tab. | ||
gcom | or as soon as he wants to check it into cpan | ||
jez | Aank: what's your point | ||
people in China will wanna use my *english interface* software? | 18:39 | ||
why? | |||
gcom thinks there's a little trolling going on, but is leaving room for doubt | |||
Aankhen`` | I find it very irritating when people refuse to use nick completion and end up misspelling my nick. | ||
ōæ½xABgcomōæ½xBB: You too? ;-) | |||
jez | Aankhen``: it's a habit i've never gotten into | ||
Aankhen`` | Then learn to spell nicks right. | ||
theorbtwo | Do you mind Aankh? | ||
PerlJam | jez: for instance, I guy I know wrote some wiki software. He was very american-centered until it became popular. Now he's got some internationalization because he has users all over the world. | ||
Aankhen`` | ōæ½xABtheorbtwoōæ½xBB: Of course not... Aank, Aankh, Aankhen or even Anakin works. :-) | 18:40 | |
jez | you, OTOH, seem to like specialformatting | ||
Aankhen`` | ōæ½xABjezōæ½xBB: That's right. | ||
I just dislike Anakhen or Anaken or... you get the idea. | |||
theorbtwo dislikes "theo". | 18:41 | ||
jez | perljam: does he communicate with said users in non-englis? | ||
PerlJam | jez, Aankhen``: both of you know how to use msg | ||
jez | English | ||
PerlJam | jez: occasionally. But the point is that his *software* has to | ||
jez | PerlJam: how do i use msg? *ducks* | ||
Aankhen`` | ōæ½xABPerlJamōæ½xBB: Better, I know how to go off and waste time playing games. :-D | ||
wolverian | hm, how do I determine whether a test I'm adding is todo or not? | ||
Aankhen`` | Later. | ||
PerlJam | wolverian: Is it an unimplemented feature? | 18:42 | |
wolverian | PerlJam: yes. | ||
castaway | does it work? | ||
wolverian | castaway: no. | ||
jez | perl: welllll... wiki software is the kind of thing i might expect that for. however, what about a different example - database logins. | ||
castaway | then its todo, obviously | ||
PerlJam | it should be a todo then :) | ||
jez | perl: i'm gonna support unicode usernames/passwords? | ||
wolverian | well, I don't know if it's implemented or not. | ||
castaway | I presume you know that todo means "to do" (as in to be done) | ||
wolverian | but it definitely doesn't work. | ||
yes, but the first issue is unclear to me. | |||
castaway | if it doesnt work, it needs doing ,) | 18:43 | |
wolverian | heh. | ||
castaway | (assuming its supposed to) | ||
jez | perl: as this database is for my english website i dont anticipate any non-english needs, and it's not worth my time supporting it | ||
i guess i will when i feel the need | |||
:-) | |||
PerlJam | jez: sure. | ||
jez | but it will have to come up and bite me | ||
castaway bites jez. | |||
(oops) | 18:44 | ||
PerlJam | jez: right. Like I said before, I expect that there will be many sandboxes springing up around the world until we have full globalization :-) | ||
jez | you mean a single world language? heh | ||
i'd like to see 'full globalization' until that mile-high barrier is broken | |||
that or a universal translator device. i've been wondering why one of those hasn't spprung up. we have speech recognition, we have translation, we have speech synthesis | 18:45 | ||
PerlJam | jez: English is the "world language" But I doubt that ethnicities or regions will be giving up their local languages any time soon. | ||
jez | just need more research and a universal translator (rudimentry) could be developed | ||
PerlJam | jez: you've obviously never studied linguistics. | 18:46 | |
machack666 | you can solve hard ai next, then. :) | ||
jez | i said it'd be rudimentry. so initially it wouldnt carry emphasis, there would be mistakes | ||
PerlJam | jez: though you're right. It's just that *only* a rudimentary translator could be developed. :) | ||
machack666 | and p = np needs some work, too | ||
jez | but it would be ok for clearly expressed sentences | ||
castaway | also hasnt tried to tranlate stuff using babelfish much either | ||
jez | perl: nah, just look at Star Trek | 18:47 | |
PerlJam | heh | ||
jez | babelfish is poo. there must be better translations around | ||
promt.ru is ok | |||
castaway | feel free to write one ;) | 18:48 | |
mj41 | So stupid, so beautiful. Perl6-pugs powered | ||
wiki.kn.vutbr.cz/mj/attach/pugs/tut...ld.p6.html | |||
wiki.kn.vutbr.cz/mj/attach/pugs/tut-pugs/tut/ | |||
need some food | |||
ninereasons | iblech, maybe "isnt" would be better than "is" to test your bug discovery? may I change it? | 18:50 | |
jez | rafb.net/paste/results/2WfdzS70.html | ||
could someone explain how the above increases security? | 18:51 | ||
or is supposed to? | |||
Corion | jez: Maybe ask that in #perl | 18:54 | |
PerlJam | jez: It doesn't. Anyone who can read the source can see those values. | ||
rgs | simon cozens is to be trusted, though | 18:55 | |
Corion | rgs: Simon Cozens is smoking crack. Good crack some times, but still crack | ||
rgs | right. | ||
Corion | (but yes, he usually knows what he's talking about :) ) | 18:56 | |
jez | Perljam: well that's what i thought. | 18:58 | |
it's strange to see Simon saying that because it's BS, moving the password to somewhere else in the code increases security? | |||
machack666 | DBIx::NamedDSN stores auth info in a place outside of the webroot</plug> | ||
jez | people shouldnt see the code in the first place | ||
PerlJam | jez: if you get on irc.perl.org, you can query simon himself on #perl | ||
crysflame | cozens is very interesting | ||
jez | perl: oh that's where he hangs out eh | ||
rgs | cozens is lathos on irc | ||
jez | he said EFNET #perl | ||
crysflame | his nickname is lathos there | ||
jez | :-) | ||
castaway | You can set those vars in the scripts environment some other way.. readonly login files or something | ||
crysflame | EFNET #perl, Rhizo #perl, whatever | ||
PerlJam | jez: oh, he's on efnet too I think. | ||
castaway | but if a usder can read the script, he can still find them | 18:59 | |
integral thinks it does increase security | |||
PerlJam | jez: most of the famous (or infamous) perl people hang out on irc.perl.org #perl though | ||
integral | using the user's credentials rather than the same ones for all users (plus you get to use krb5 ;-) | ||
PerlJam | integral: okay, sure it increases security but only marginally. | ||
castaway | slightly | ||
integral | Not really, different users can use different credentials, and you get auditing | ||
Corion | Storing login/password in the script is bad, because if you post the script to the internet, you got to remember to clean it before posting. | 19:00 | |
(as I've experienced often enough) | |||
PerlJam | Corion: sorry but, heh. :) | ||
integral doesn't see the point of using a login/password when it's not provided by a user | |||
kungfuftr | @ARGV? | ||
castaway | plenty of point for that, integral | ||
integral | like? | 19:01 | |
But it's not buying you anything if it's just there in the script. | |||
Corion | kungfuftr: Visible through ps, or top. | ||
castaway | like when the app only has/needs one login to the DB, and the users just use the app, and arent supposed to know how to get at the db directly | ||
stevan | mj41: very nice!! | ||
integral | but then castaway any method you employ is merely obscurity. Using strings(1) on your app isn't hard | 19:02 | |
castaway | it is if my app is on a server they dont have access to ,) | ||
integral | right, then their pc shouldn't be allowed to talk to the DB at all :-) | 19:03 | |
jez | so like, what is the safe way to store user/pass for db access? | ||
crysflame | i can't think of any | ||
machack666 | encrypt it, and find way to hide the decryption key. induction strikes again! :D | 19:05 | |
castaway | somewhere where it cant be read | ||
jez | castaway: hurm. howsabout..... beneath my docs directory? | 19:07 | |
then the script could look in ~/passwords.foo | |||
castaway | no idea what type of app you are talking about | ||
jez | CGI | ||
of course your script would have not to be so shit that it would print out passwords.foo | 19:08 | ||
but it's another layer of security | |||
mj41 | stevan: thanks | 19:09 | |
stevan | mj41: is that in the pugs source tree yet? | 19:16 | |
mj41: you might want to try pointing it at the examples/cookbook stuff too | |||
mj41 | not yet in pugs, to utils or examples? | 19:18 | |
are utils are p5 | 19:19 | ||
s/are/all/ | |||
or somebody can create Tutorial-Generator ext/module | 19:23 | ||
rindolf | Hi all! | 19:25 | |
stevan | mj41: put it in examples/tutorial_gen/ | 19:37 | |
hey rindolf | 19:38 | ||
rindolf | stevan: hi | ||
stevan: what's up? | |||
stevan | nothing really,.. 6.2.0 hangover basically :) | ||
mj41 | ok | 19:40 | |
stevan | mj41: I would love it if utils/ would get ported to perl6, but realistically Pugs is still to slow in some places | 19:41 | |
mj41 | yes, I can confirm this | 19:42 | |
stevan | mj41: :) | ||
mj41: 'make optimized' makes it a little better | |||
mj41 | puzzle | 19:43 | |
my $a = <a b>; my $b = <a>; my $c = [ <a> ]; my $d = [ <a b> ]; | |||
say $a.ref ~ $b.ref ~ $c.ref ~ $d.ref; | |||
stevan | that makes sense | 19:44 | |
<> is general quoting IIRC | |||
so it is just quoting that string | |||
or rather <> is sorta-polymorphic quoting weird thing | 19:45 | ||
wolverian | the second case is a bit weird, but it's the same in perl5. | ||
gaal | i don't understand why $a isa List and not Array though. | 19:46 | |
stevan has not quite grasped the distinction between array and list in perl6 | |||
gaal | are lists var types at all? | ||
PerlJam | stevan: the distinction is very very small in perl6 | 19:47 | |
gaal killed a few trees today and will have plenty of time to read the apocalypses soon :/ | |||
wolverian | is there a does or isa relationship between List and Array? | ||
stevan | wolverian: check,.. we have .isa now | 19:48 | |
wolverian | right. thanks. :) | ||
okay, there is no isa relationship. | 19:49 | ||
just wondering if I have to type things as 'List|Array $foo' in my signatures. | |||
castaway doubts it | 19:50 | ||
wolverian | then both should do the same role | ||
(such as Enumerable in Ruby) | |||
gaal | what's p6 for print for @Foo::INC ? | 19:51 | |
wolverian | or maybe pugs is wrong here. | ||
stevan | gaal: not sure | 19:52 | |
ninereasons | kungfufter for some reason it just hit me: when you said 'petal ports' you meant 'as in freebsd' not 'as in 'perl5 => perl6' | ||
Aankhen`` | G'night. | ||
wolverian | $obj.meta.isa | ||
stevan | wolverian: I think we do actually (have List|Array) | ||
ninereasons | kungfuftr, i hate leaving loose ends :) | ||
wolverian | stevan: I wasn't asking if we have it, but if I need to do that every time I want an enumerable type | 19:53 | |
stevan | wolverian: see S29 I think I saw an example of that usage in there | ||
kungfuftr | moo? | ||
rob_ | Unpacking ghc-6.2-i386-unknown-linux.tar.bz2 | ||
stevan | wolverian: :) I am a little slow today | ||
rob_ | ups, sorry | ||
castaway | oops, crashed SEE.. | ||
gaal | thanks, wolverian | ||
wolverian | the obvious solution here is to add a role such as Enumerable. I don't know if this has been discussed. | 19:54 | |
gaal: you're welcome. | |||
castaway looks for nothingmuch | |||
kungfuftr | ninereasons: yar... no bsd ports | 19:56 | |
wolverian | (the name is bad with the 'does' verb, so it should probably be Index (class List does Index { ... }) or some such. | ||
s/$/)/ | |||
mj41 | uploaded | 20:06 | |
g'night | 20:29 | ||
from Czech republic | |||
rindolf | mj41: night | 20:30 | |
gaal: hi. | |||
theorb | Allo, all. | 21:16 | |
ingy | hi theorb | 21:19 | |
y "hola" en generales | 21:20 | ||
<-- makes stuff up | |||
stevan | ingy-speak | 21:33 | |
metaperl_ | stevan, I broke up fp.p6 in examples | ||
I needed to do so for my slides for my talk tonight: www.metaperl.com/talks/p6-fp-slurpy/index.html | |||
stevan | metaperl_: ok by me | 21:34 | |
metaperl_ | ok | ||
stevan silently curses metaperl | |||
metaperl_: did you commit it yet? | 21:35 | ||
metaperl_ | I think the original is still there | ||
there is a directory... | |||
fp.p6 is still there | |||
I added fp.p6 | |||
and an fp directory which has fp.p6 broken up | 21:36 | ||
all under examples | |||
stevan | metaperl_: I am not seeing it | ||
I just grabbed r1953 | |||
metaperl_ | oh maybe I didn't commit it | ||
hold | |||
stevan | metaperl_: I would prefer you remove fp.p6 | ||
or at least move it in the directory | 21:37 | ||
no sense in having 2 copies of it actually | |||
metaperl_ | ok 1954 is committed but I did not remove your fp.p6 | 21:39 | |
stevan | metaperl_: re: your fp.p5... most of fp.p6 was actually derived from this module search.cpan.org/~stevan/fp-0.02/lib/fp.pm | 21:40 | |
metaperl_ | yes, many ways to do it - Language::Functional is another | ||
stevan have you filtered out the sw-design moderator notices? I am about to... there doesn't seem to be a way to handle it via the UI | 21:41 | ||
stevan | metaperl_: they have been going to my junk folder for a while now | 21:42 | |
metaperl_ | ok, I'm going to do that as well | ||
stevan | metaperl_: I am moving fp.p6 into examples, and removing examples/fp.p5 since it is in examples/fp/ now | 21:43 | |
ok? | |||
metaperl_ | ok | 21:44 | |
theorb | Is the polite thing to do to commit tests as todo if they fail, or only if they represent a feature that shouldn't be done by now? | 21:53 | |
kungfuftr has a new really nice way of doing testgraph | 21:54 | ||
but lest i know not petal | 21:55 | ||
theorb shrugs -- I thought the old way was just fine myself. | |||
kungfuftr | =0) | 21:57 | |
theorb | Hair standing on end and a pig-nose? | 21:58 | |
stevan | theorb: todo if its not done yet, not-todo if it should be done (or is a bug) | 22:01 | |
thats my general approach | |||
metaperl_: I just added another example which you might find ammusing | 22:04 | ||
off to eat dinner,... bye all | 22:08 | ||
theorb | Later, stevan! | ||
stevan | oh hey,.. theorb did you confirm all your reservations for YAPC::NA? | ||
I talked to John about the hackathon, it is going to start on Wed now (1 day earlier) | 22:09 | ||
theorb | Well, I've RSVP'd for the hackathon... and Jess booked the time off. | ||
But we've not done the rest of the arragnements yet. | |||
stevan | ok, well just so you know if you can get their earlier then cool :) | 22:10 | |
23:53
metaperl__ is now known as metaperl_
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