Pugs 6.2.8 released! | pugscode.org | pugs.kwiki.org | paste: sial.org/pbot/perl6 | www.geeksunite.net
Set by autrijus on 13 July 2005.
chromatic PUSHMARK 00:00
chromatic wishes for reliable and complete global destruction.
PUTBACK 00:01
clkao no!
no perlguts here pllease
Odin-LAP chromatic: The U.S. or Russia should be able to give you one...
chromatic How else should I put something on Autrijus' stack?
Odin-LAP wonders how powerful an explosion it would take to destabilise the orbit...
clkao svk push 00:02
chromatic According to Futurama, the output from every robot in the world in the year 3002.
Svk knows a bit about p5guts too.
clkao no that's svn::core. svk is pure perl
chromatic Synecdoche. 00:04
nothingmuch good night gay camels 00:16
mugwump :D 00:17
nothingmuch (to disambiguate: lambda.org/)
obra :) 00:18
nothingmuch lambda.org/Flag-Rainbow_banner_1.gif
mply, the Greek letter "L" stands for "liberation."
check
s/^/Si/
The Greek Spartans believed that the lambda represented unity. - unity of haskell and perl - check 00:19
\The Romans took it as meaning "the light of knowledge shining into the darkness of ignorance."
wow, that's good stuff
haskell makes me feel that way
check
(i'm going through lambda.org/symbols.htm, btw)
The charged energy of the gay movement. This stems from the lambda's use in chemistry and physics to denote energy in equations. 00:20
well, s/gay/pugs/; check
The synergy which results when gays and lesbians work together towards a common goal (a gestalt theory which also stems from the physics-energy theory) .. s/gays,lesbians/perl people, haskell people/; check
mugwump is reminded at this point of the "Never be rude to an Arab" skit 00:21
nothingmuch okay, i'll stop now, because these are getting long
interesting... lambda.org/Gensymb-Mbi_Fbi.gif 00:22
01:01 mja is now known as mja_
svnbot6 r5610, putter++ | Refactoring of perl5/PIL-Run/crude_repl. Pulled out PIL::ReadToStr1, and PIL::Run::{MainX,EvalX}. 01:29
autrijus greetings. 01:30
autrijus looks at even more in-method for/given threads on p6l. 01:32
we will be for/given. ;)
mugwump morning autrijus, back to regular time I see 01:33
hi stevan 01:37
mugwump realises he is probably talking to an auto-reconnect 01:38
putter cheerio. 01:50
mugwump you just arrive and are already saying goodbye? 01:51
putter just arrive. ;) 01:54
svnbot6 r5611, putter++ | p5 runtime now uses placeholder objects PIL::Run::Type::{Object,Str,Rat,Int}.
r5612, putter++ | ... and here are PIL::Run::Type::{Object,Str,Rat,Int}.
putter Oooo, here is an idea. (Thinking about some of the questions earlier in the day.) People who ask questions, have to add them to a QuestionsAsked list, perhaps on the wiki. Answers can be cut and pasted there. That way we accumulate answered questions. 02:14
QtPlatypus putter: Great idea.
Going with the current religious theam we should call it a Catechism (An elementry book containing a summary, in the form of questions and answers) 02:19
putter :) 02:24
autrijus note that all pugs apocryphons are declared to be in catechism format :) 02:25
catechism++
autrijus syncs up and reads putter's work 02:26
euro oscon schedule up... I now understand why none of perl6 talks made it 02:27
and why all my tutorials are downcasted into sessions 02:28
obra oh?
autrijus because there's only 8 tutorials that suggests a strong lab-like format 02:29
obra ah.
autrijus and the talks are 100% biased toward practical utility
which is actually a good thing
obra They probably need to be to make the conference seem reasonable for attendees 02:30
autrijus right
at least my whimsical, why-the-lucky-stiff-influenced "Learning Haskell" talk made it.
# conferences.oreillynet.com/cs/euroo..._sess/7231
obra Nice 02:35
Sad I won't get to see it
autrijus *nod*
putter autrijus: now r5613. 02:37
autrijus roger.
svnbot6 r5613, putter++ | Added PIL/Run/Type/Sub.pm, and changed name mangling. 02:42
autrijus putter: color me impressed :) 02:44
autrijus lunch... will read up some more &
putter thanks. :) 02:45
wolverian is there a syntax to check the parameter of a role at runtime? that is, role Foo[$bar] { } class Baz does Foo[Quux] { } my $o = Baz.new; # how to check what $bar is? 03:43
svnbot6 r5614, putter++ | Added perl5/PIL-Run/TODO, which suggests ways you can help develop the p5 runtime.
putter ? 03:45
wolverian is that directed at me?
:)
putter Yes. I don't recall one from the docs. But it may have been mentioned at the hackathon. Don't know. 03:46
wolverian okay, thanks.
just wondering, it's not critical. I can always handwave for the time being :)
(just that the functionality itself is important. the syntax isn't as much.) 03:47
putter :) true.
ok, end of day for me. I likely won't be around tomorrow(US). 03:49
wolverian bye! 03:50
putter perl5/PIL-Run/TODO has several suggestions of things people could do to help with the p5 runtime. Several require only basic perl5 skill. Help! :) Thank you. :) 03:51
stevan putter++ # braving the p5 runtime :) 03:52
putter wolverian: bye. I think is going to be one of those stop for a snack and wander around, slow exits...
:) 03:53
wolverian putter, okay. :) have fun.
putter stevan: I looked at (some of?) the SELF stuff. neat! I'm afraid I still dont have enough of a clue about the mm to say anything useful. sorry. rsn I hope... 03:55
stevan putter: the SELF stuff is actually in flux now
I am trying to fix the submethod handling
which means I need to implement "next METHOD" 03:56
which is not that easy given the way the dispatcher currently is structured
putter ah.
stevan putter: mm stuff is not as hard as it looks :) 03:57
the files are just getting a little cluttered
time for a refactoring :)
basically what I am saying, dont mistake my messiness for complexity :) 03:58
putter The runtime is currently using strawman PIL/Run/Type/Mumble.pm classes. Object,Sub,Str,Int,Rat. They could be the start of connecting the runtime stuff to the mm?
ok. :) wont. there is always Fiter::Simple. :) 03:59
putter is a great believer in declaritive programming using runtime code generation. 04:00
svnbot6 r5615, mugwump++ | Add basic prompting via Scriptalicious ;)
mugwump s/prompting/readline prompting/
bah, there are debug output messages in the release scriptalicious. doh! 04:01
putter I just had to google that. "Scriptalicious". Interesting module... 04:02
Who knows, maybe p6 will put an end to the so long search for good command line argument handling. 04:04
Yeah, right. And create world peace too. ;)
mugwump Well, Scriptalicious doesn't do much beyond Getopt::Long
all it does is add -h, -v, etc standard options
(and make them work ;))
putter :)
stevan putter: what time zone are you in? 04:05
svnbot6 r5616, mugwump++ | Add version requirement for Scriptalicious, un-TODO
stevan you always seem to be up around now
putter EST (EDT?)
EDT
stevan ah
me too
you are up late :)
putter yeah. good reminder. long day tomorrow. 04:06
goodnight all :) &
wolverian hey, is there a difference between 'role Foo does Bar does Baz;' and 'subtype Foo of Bar where { .does(Baz) }'? 04:31
mugwump sure. the latter won't be directly instantiable, I think 04:32
You'd need to have another class that .does(Bar) and .does(Baz) for it to match .does(Foo) 04:33
wolverian er, are roles instantiable?
oh, you mean a class can't then 'does Foo', in the latter case? 04:34
mugwump well, they create an anonymous class. What I mean by that statement is that there's nothing to tell the interpreter how to correctly Foo.new
wolverian hrm. right. so they can't be composed, only used in type checking?
mugwump You can't invert the where clause into a constructor 04:35
it might be arbitrarily complex
wolverian hmm, S12 says you can declare with subtypes
so maybe I'm just confused about what you're trying to say 04:36
mugwump well, how do you go from 'where { .does(Baz) }' to 'Foo does Baz' ? 04:37
wolverian they're both constraints on what can be contained in the container, right? 04:38
mugwump no, the where { } is a constraint, the does { } imports the role
wolverian hmm, right 04:39
mugwump er, s/does { }/does/ :)
wolverian if you want to see the actual example 04:40
I'm trying to decide between
role Slave does Belong is Species { } and subtype Slave of Species where { .does(Belong) }
(where the role Belong implements an interface for things that have an owner) 04:41
does that make any sense to you at all? :) 04:42
(and yes, this is a game.)
mugwump I think the latter would make .does(Slave) work on Species objects if they .does(Belong) 04:43
svnbot6 r5617, masak++ | Fixed quotes in t/statements/given.t, marked as TODO.
mugwump Roles can't "is", either 04:44
perhaps "Roles aren't, they do"
wolverian oh. hmm. well, that's a kind of a kludge because 'does Species' doesn't work from an English perspective
so I used a class instead. which is just a desire for it to be linguistically clean, I guess
I should think about semantics more :)
s,think,worry, 04:45
stevan Roles can "is" IIRC
mugwump oh, actually I tell a lie - roles can "is", but it ends up flattening into the class they are included
stevan yup
it is in A12 somewhere 04:46
mugwump being "flattened" into a superclass in this case
wolverian just like when they 'does' another role?
stevan to be honest, I think that is just down right silly
wolverian oh, the superclass gets the role?
that's weird.
mugwump no, it gets added into the class' superclasses as if IT did the "is Whatever"
wolverian can you show a short code example? 04:47
I'm being dense. haven't slept all night. :)
(looking in A12)
mugwump see S12/A role is allowed to declare an additional inheritance 04:48
wolverian you mean Encapsulated inheritance? 04:49
oh, sorry, I'm in A12
hmm. role Foo is Bar { } class Baz does Foo { } Baz.isa(Bar); Foo.isa(Bar); Bar.isa(Foo); # true, false, false? 04:50
er, s,isa,does, 04:51
that's how I read it, anyway, and it makes sense to me. 04:53
mugwump Foo.isa(Bar) would probably be an error imho, Foo is a Role not a class 05:22
mugwump weekends & 05:23
wolverian mugwump, I meant Foo.does(Bar). is that an error as well? 05:24
oh, you went. thanks for the help. :)
gaal good morning. 06:28
wolverian morning. 06:29
gaal nothingmuch: you pang? 06:31
autrijus, there? 06:39
i want to chat a little about eval.p6: you mentioned debugger hooks in your journal, i want to see how to arrange for that kind of thing. 06:41
07:24 castaway_ is now known as castaway 08:58 osfameron_ is now known as osfameron
masak ?eval "you alive, evalbot?" 09:24
guess not
QtPlatypus wonders how one would test for lazyness? 12:47
Limbic_Region QtPlatypus - perhaps through a tied implementation 12:48
one that would allow for introspection without motivating
QtPlatypus was thinking about something simple like having a side effect in the generator. 12:49
test as in "Check that lazyness is working"
Limbic_Region that might work too 12:50
heizenburg's principle is hard to get around though
QtPlatypus The whole "Obsever causes the situation to change" thing? 12:51
Limbic_Region well - that's the simplified version 12:52
but yeah
Odin- Heisenberg's uncertainty principle?
It's impossible to know (precisely) both the position and velocity of any particular particle at the same time... :p 12:53
Limbic_Region actually - that's only one interpretation 12:54
the more you know about one is proportional to the less you know about the other
QtPlatypus I thinnk its both the position and the momentum of any perticular particle. 12:55
Odin- QtPlatypus: The momentum is dependent upon mass and velocity; you *can* know the rest mass... 12:56
QtPlatypus nods to Odin-
Limbic_Region except for those pesky particles that only seem to have mass when they are moving ;-) 12:57
Odin- Limbic_Region: Well, their rest mass is 'zero', then, isn't it? ;p 12:58
Limbic_Region oh, has anyone seen nothingmuch?
seen nothingmuch 12:59
jabbot Limbic_Region: nothingmuch was seen 12 hours 36 minutes 30 seconds ago
svnbot6 r5618, iblech++ | svnbot.p6 -- Made it possible to display branch information (i.e. leo-ctx5) and 13:15
r5618, iblech++ | misc. minor fixes.
13:57 joepurl_ is now known as joepurl
masak QtPlatypus: Limbic_Region is right, the general version of the Uncertainty Principle is about limitation of accuracy of simultaneous measurement of observables in general 14:22
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uncertainty_principle
QtPlatypus masak: Thanks 14:23
dudley Is kwid the standard format for pugs documentation? 14:26
integral since pod and kwid are theoretically interchangeable, does there need to be one? 14:27
dudley I guess that's what I was asking
svnbot6 r5619, iblech++ | svnbot.p6 -- Option to output a separate header line for each commit, idea from coke++. 14:41
r5620, iblech++ | * examples/network/svnbot.p6 -- Updated svnbot's usage info. 14:57
r5620, iblech++ | * examples/network/README -- Noted the channels svnbot is used in.
r5621, fglock++ | finished Span::Code.intersection() method
Limbic_Region fglock - did you ever get your lazy infinite list answer? 14:58
eric256 anyone know the pugs way of setting the char used when stringifying lists? 16:11
i can't even seem to find the right document 16:14
PerlJam eric256: use join 16:15
eric256 i would. but i'm using the flattening properties...unless i can flatten into a list and join that....like ([1..5],[1,2,3,[a,b,c]]) = (1..5,1,2,3,a,b,c) 16:16
f0rth www.wretch.cc/album/chining 16:17
oops.....sorry
eric256 thanks PerlJam, that got me going in the right directions 16:18
hmmm. my $test = {1 => 2}; $test.perl.say; produces {('1' => 2)} .... and if you do say ref($test) you get Array 16:29
hmmm or not... nm..something else is confusing it i guess. 16:30
stevan Limbic_Region: ping
eric256 pugs> my $test = {1 => {'2' => 3, '4' => 5}}; $test.perl.say; $test<1>.ref.say; 16:32
{('1' => ('2' => 3)), ('4 5' => undef)}
Pair
bool::true
pasteling "stevan" at 67.186.136.119 pasted "iterator for the MetaModel dispatcher (sanity test please)" (70 lines, 1.8K) at sial.org/pbot/11777
eric256 am i being dumb somewhere i there? i expect $test<1>.ref to be Hash
stevan if I could get a sanity test on the metamodel dispatcher iterator thing above
fglock ping Limbic_Region
stevan it would be much appreaciated 16:33
it is a depth first iterator basically
oh, crap I see a problem already, but it is more with my example and less with the code 16:34
pasteling "stevan" at 67.186.136.119 pasted "fixed iterator" (72 lines, 1.9K) at sial.org/pbot/11778 16:36
stevan ok, look at that one instead please
eric256 stevan - it runs and passes the tests here. not sure how much help that is for you ;) 16:38
stevan eric256: thanks, I am looking for a sanity check on the code 16:40
basically it felt like it was going to be more complex
then I wrote it
and I was done before I knew it
this will eventually replace the current dispatch mechanism in the metamodel 16:41
making it into an iterator makes it resumeable
eric256 lol. yea. isn't depth first suppose to be easy like that?
stevan so things like "next METHOD" can work
eric256 cool
stevan eric256: yeah I guess it is :)
eric256 any ideas on my hash miss parse...well i think it is a miss parse..
stevan looking now 16:42
weird
well $test<1>.ref makes sense to be a pair 16:43
what does $test<1><2>.ref say?
stevan does not have a copy of pugs handy
eric256 yea but look at the second run...where it lumps '4 5' as a pair with udnef
stevan yes, that part looks like a mis-parse for sure 16:44
I am just wondering what it thinks the $test<1> pair is
doe it think it is { 2 => 3}
or something else 16:45
eric256 it thinks its ('2' => 3) if i print it useing .perl
stevan what about $test.ref?
eric256 Hash 16:46
stevan $test<1><4>.ref?
we need evalbot back :)
eric256 Scalar for ref....\undef for .perl 16:47
stevan ok
eric256 did eval bot die? or is it just not running right now?
stevan yeah I think it is a misparse
I have no idea 16:48
Aankhen`` Juerd++ # typing tutor 17:11
stevan I have no idea 17:21
eric256 still ;) 17:25
ToniEisner is away: Away at the moment 17:46
17:47 ToniEisner is now known as ToniEisnerIsAway
stevan wow it is quiet in here today 17:49
kolibrie everyone got burned out after all the discussion yesterday 17:51
eric256 is sad
stevan kolibrie: which one? not the ./ one? 17:52
svnbot6 r5622, Stevan++ | Perl6::MetaModel -
r5622, Stevan++ | * fixed SELF to handle nested calls of different invocants
r5622, Stevan++ | - added more tests for this
r5622, Stevan++ | * removed the Submethods monomophic assertions
r5622, Stevan++ | * added Submethod tests based on discussion with $Larry
r5622, Stevan++ | - these tests current fail until we add CLASS and next_METHOD
r5622, Stevan++ | * added ->dispatcher method to MetaClass
r5622, Stevan++ | - added a basic test for this
r5622, Stevan++ | - NOTE: it is not used by anything yet, that is
r5622, Stevan++ | my next step :)
r5623, Stevan++ | removed notes to self in TODO :)
stevan eric256: cheer up, hashes are not that important :)
kolibrie stevan: that was pretty big, but the channel was just busy all day 17:53
stevan dammit, the day I decide to do $work is the good day
kolibrie so, anyone have any experience with Parse::RecDescent, and want to help me begin? 17:54
my problem is that I only care about the middle of my document, and can't figure out how to skip the first chunk of garbage 17:57
eric256 just remove it with a regex. ;)
kolibrie so just do that first, before starting the parse? 17:58
eric256 that would be my guess yes..
kolibrie I wanted my grammar to be able to say, skip up to this starting point
eric256 never touche Parse::* anything, but i would say the easiest solution is best
ToniEisnerIsAway is back. 17:59
17:59 ToniEisnerIsAway is now known as ToniEisner
kolibrie the easiest was to write my own parser, but it is starting to stretch itself too far 17:59
so now I have to learn "the real thing"
eric256 right but. if you just want to skip junk, then skip it the easiest way you know, 18:00
stevan kolibrie: I never used P::RD myself, but I would assume that your "start" token would be the place to start parsing
that is if P::RD has a notion of a "start" token
PerlJam it does
stevan only does simple event based (XML::SAX) parsing 18:01
kolibrie so, PerlJam, do you have a hint for me?
integral rule names map to method names on the parser object, so if your start rule is "start" you call the "start" method :-) 18:02
kolibrie I get that
here's my simple example:
PerlJam kolibrie: no, basically you do as others have said (it's just the mechanism you use that changes)
kolibrie I want to match the string 'hello world' 18:03
but the string I actually have is 'my hello world'
integral rule1: 'hello world'
kolibrie when I say $parser->rule1($string)
I get no match
integral ah, rules are anchored
PerlJam kolibrie: because you need to have the "rule" that skips the stuff you don't want 18:04
kolibrie so I added a garbage: /.*/
PerlJam you realize that * is very greedy?
integral but that then eats the whole string, since no backtracking into regexps occurs
maybe /\S+/ to eat one word would be appropiate?
kolibrie maybe 18:05
ok, so that worked for 'my hello world' 18:07
but not for 'my very special hello world'
integral myrule1: (/\S+/)* 'hello' 'world'
kolibrie Untranslatable item encountered: "*" 18:10
integral ugh, and I'm not sure that would work anyway because I can't remember P::RD's backtracking behaviour
PerlJam I'd probably make a rule just for the garbage words but that's just me
kolibrie I'm trying 18:11
integral thinks a single regexp with full backtracking would work better
PerlJam well it'll work *faster* and if that's what you mean by "better" then sure.
integral well it'd "work" too...
kolibrie I'm just trying to get it to work at all: 18:12
page: garbage(s?) greeting world
greeting: ('hello' | 'greetings') 18:13
world: /\w+/
garbage: /\S*/
no match on 'my very special hello world'
PerlJam kolibrie: er ... why are you messing with P::RD again? I'm not even working the problem even and I already want to use p6 notation
kolibrie well, I'd rather use that, but couldn't get that to work either 18:14
PGE was dying on unknown characters, I think 18:15
it was giving all kinds of weird errors
PerlJam then ping pmichaud hard so that he can fix it.
kolibrie I suppose so 18:16
but still, now I'm on a mission to get this to work
Alias_ seen iblechbot
jabbot Alias_: I havn't seen iblechbot, Alias_
Alias_ eep
Limbic_Region why eep 18:18
I think jabbot only pays attention if the person says something 18:19
iblechbot is a logger not a talker
;-)
seen iblech
jabbot Limbic_Region: iblech was seen 7 days 23 hours 49 minutes 58 seconds ago
Limbic_Region seen nothingmuch 18:20
jabbot Limbic_Region: nothingmuch was seen 17 hours 58 minutes 9 seconds ago
PerlJam kolibrie: well, turn on tracing and see if that helps (Search for RD_TRACE in the docs) 18:21
kolibrie PerlJam: ah, yes, that might help 18:22
Alias_ ohh... 18:23
How does one get a commit bot set up 18:24
Alias_ wants one for #jsan
kolibrie the examples/svnbot.p6 works, I think 18:25
Alias_ ok 18:26
kolibrie examples/network/svnbot.p6
so, using my 'my hello world' parsing example, I've gotten pugs to match using this grammar: 18:48
rule page { <garbage>+ \s <greeting> \s <world> };
rule greeting { hello | greetings }
rule world { nathan }
rule garbage { \S+\s? }
however, as soon as I change the string to 'my very special hello world' 18:49
I get a segmentation fault
that goes to patrick, I guess?
s/nathan/\w+/ 18:50
svnbot6 r5624, Stevan++ | Perl6::MetaModel - 19:08
r5624, Stevan++ | * added CLASS (aka $?CLASS)
r5624, Stevan++ | - added tests for this
r5624, Stevan++ | - sprinkled usage of this in other tests too
r5624, Stevan++ | * disabled Submethod failures for now, they are still
r5624, Stevan++ | broken though
pasteling "Aankhen``" at 203.101.6.32 pasted "Pugsbug?" (8 lines, 382B) at sial.org/pbot/11780 19:30
svnbot6 r5625, Stevan++ | Perl6::MetaModel -
r5625, Stevan++ | * stubbed $?ROLE test
r5625, Stevan++ | * We are not using the Perl6::MetaClass::Dispatcher to handle
r5625, Stevan++ | all the method dispatching :)
stevan whoops :)
s/not using/now using/
Aankhen`` LMAO.
stevan its friday after all :) 19:31
Aankhen`` Excuses, excuses. :-P
Could you take a look at the paste and confirm?
stevan Aankhen``: sure one sec
Aankhen``: I have no idea what it is thinking there 19:33
did you try this in non-interactive mode?
oh wait
line 3, it is missing the comma
Aankhen`` Indeed.
stevan pugs> sub foo ($bar, $baz) { ($bar, $baz) }; foo(:bar<quux> :baz<boo>)
no comma before :baz 19:34
Aankhen`` Yes.
stevan is that intentional?
Aankhen`` Indeed.
stevan ok
hmm
what is it supposed to do then?
Aankhen`` Treat it as if there was a comma there...
stevan Aankhen``: why? 19:35
Aankhen`` One sec, I'm looking for the AES I read it in. 19:36
stevan (drunken admins)++
Aankhen`` Someone take that function away from them. -_-
Pitch Black is a depressing movie.
I liked Chronicles of Riddick much better.
Argh... which AES was it??? 19:38
cwest I need your bot. :-) 19:44
Who owns svnbot6?
Aankhen`` Right, I can't find it. Put simply, it said the new pair notation would be useful when passing a bunch of boolean options together, e.g. open($file, :lock :read :somethingelse); 19:45
dudley cwest: it's iblech's baby, I think 19:49
stevan cwest: I will sell it to you for $1 million 19:51
or best offer :)
Khisanth 2 rupees!
stevan damn! undercut again,.. that it, I am moving to Bangalore :) 19:52
cwest Do you /really/ want my best offer? ;-) 19:53
Khisanth quarter cent? :P
cwest That's pushing it.
stevan cwest: okay, I will pay you! 19:54
Khisanth one eight?
cwest My best offer is that you give me crash space at oscon that isn't in a hostel. ;-) 19:55
stevan sure, but the commute is a bitch since I am in Connecticut
Khisanth hehe
cwest Connecticut, nice typo.
Geek.
Anyway, that's cool. :-)
cwest will always say connecticut now. 19:56
stevan didnt even realize he did it, its the caffine talking I swear
masak cwest: it's spelled that way 19:57
just not pronounced like it :) 19:58
Aankhen`` goes to sleep.
stevan nite Aankhen``
Aankhen`` G'night.
cwest wow, awesome quit message 19:59
stevan cwest: I think all you need for svnbot is pugs 20:00
svn.openfoundry.org/pugs/examples/n.../svnbot.p6
just install pugs and run svnbot from the command line with the proper args and you are good to go
cwest pair.openjsan.org/ 20:01
This will become www and @ soon.
heh "all you need is pugs" 20:02
I love you guys.
stevan cwest: here is the man you need to talk to ^
iblech cwest: Hi :)
cwest is going to try to install pugs from CPAN
eric256 is evilbot back yet? 20:03
cwest hello iblech, I'm trying to steal your svnbot.
eric256 i forget how to activate it....
!eval "hello"
stevan ?eval
eric256 ?eval "hello"
evalbot6 'hello'
stevan eric256: I think it is down
oh wait
back
iblech cwest: HEAD's svnbot has some cosmetic improvements
stevan horray
cwest iblech: Let me try to install pugs first. I think this will be the biggest hurdle.
eric256 ?eval my $test = { 1 => { 2 => 3, 4 => 5} }; 20:04
evalbot6 {('1' => ('2' => 3)), ('4 5' => undef)}
iblech cwest: Sure
stevan cwest: pugs from CPAN is for wussies, real hackers use svn HEAD
cwest Everything I try to compile pugs (on my powerbook) it dies. I'm a wussy. :-)
stevan cwest: dont try to compile GHC 20:05
cwest I'm using a precompiled package.
stevan there is a good DMG on the site
cwest ah, maybe that's it.
This'll be running on fbsd though.
stevan cwest: someone around here might have an already compiled version of that then 20:06
I think autrijus uses fbsd
cwest is just updating minicpan atm 20:09
20:19 Ontolog is now known as tehpwn
kolibrie perlbot nopaste 20:23
perlbot Paste your code here and #<channel> will be able to view it: sial.org/pbot/<channel>
pasteling "kolibrie" at 66.239.158.2 pasted "I get random segfaults from pge with this" (37 lines, 827B) at sial.org/pbot/11781 20:26
iblech kolibrie: IIRC, PGE is still a bit broken (because of the calling convention changes), both in trunk and in leo-ctx5. But not 100% sure 20:27
kolibrie so it's not just me?
iblech kolibrie: Definitely. My PGE here (latest leo-ctx5) can't even handle "a" ~~ rx/a/ 20:28
kolibrie ouch
well, I won't upgrade my parrot just now
iblech kolibrie: Ignore what I've just said. Turned out I needed a make realclean, "a" ~~ rx/a/ works now :) 20:38
kolibrie: Will check your nopaste now
kolibrie: *** Cannot parse PGE: <page> *** Error: end of file no match 20:40
kolibrie iblech: run it a few times 20:41
I get different results very time
s/very/every/
iblech kolibrie: I get always the same error here 20:42
kolibrie hmm
I got that error twice, but mostly I just get a segfault somewhere
20:43 tehpwn is now known as tehpinktaco
kolibrie though sometimes all the strings match, no problems 20:43
Juerd Can someone kill lilo for me please?
iblech No segfaults here
kolibrie iblech: ok, thanks
Juerd: use grub
anyone else want to run my nopaste to check for segfaults? 20:44
svnbot6 r5626, iblech++ | t_disabled/rules/from_perl6_rules/temp_moved_here_because_pge_doesnt_work_atm/ 20:49
r5626, iblech++ | -- Test fixes ("@a" -> "@a[]", "@{foo}" -> "{@{foo}}", eval_is -> is(eval(..., etc.).
Juerd kolibrie: No, the lilo who spams freenode 20:50
kolibrie Juerd: oh, sorry
Juerd kolibrie: Have you looked at your status window lately? 20:52
kolibrie Juerd: ahh, nope,hadn't looked there all day 20:54
svnbot6 r5627, iblech++ | temp_moved_here_because_pge_doesnt_work_atm/ (referred to as "tmh" in the 21:06
r5627, iblech++ | following) -- unTODO, try {...}, and fail "Test hangs".
r5627, iblech++ | No test of tmh hangs here now, so we could move tmh back to t/. But as I dunno
r5627, iblech++ | what Parrot revision other people are on, I leaved tmh at t_disabled.
r5628, iblech++ | * t/packages/require_and_use.t -- Refactoring and tests for use and require 21:23
r5628, iblech++ | updating %*INC correctly.
r5628, iblech++ | * Usual svn props.
iblech Night :) 21:25
nothingmuch evening 21:44
nothingmuch is litterring the p6l posts
err, logs
or should I say archives 21:45
Juerd They're posts no matter how you look at them 21:51
nothingmuch_ bah.... multihoming sucks 21:53
i wish interface bonding was automatic
21:54 nothingmuch_ is now known as nothingmuch
stevan hola nothingmuch 21:57
did you see what putter did ?
nothingmuch stevan: yep 21:58
i'm happy someone finally did
nothingmuch wasn't having much fun with it
stevan :)
it looks tedious, metamodels are much more fun :) 21:59
nothingmuch yup.
nothingmuch thinks he'll go read now
i crashed today
it was a really funny (in the pathetic sense) event.
i rode all around dirt, and rocks, and icky stuff, like thorns, and what not., and didn't die 22:00
stevan crashed the bike?
nothingmuch especially this one descent I really like where there is no road, i'm always sure i'll fall down, but I don't
anyway, so i get back into Lehavim, where I live, from out in the hills
and i am riding on the road
it was getting dark, and I didn't correctly assess how much this sewage drain was sticking out of the pavement. 22:01
and furthermore I was in a too high gear
now about 1mm of my elbow is on the asphalt, and what's left of it is hurting
as is mhy wrist
which is a shame, since it's the left hand 22:02
which i use to mast^H^H^H^Hplay wit^H^H^H the base
err, bass
any mac users? 23:03
dmo yeah, why ?
nothingmuch my safari is fubar 23:04
can you zip up Safari.app and WebKit.framework?
dmo yawn... yup
where do you want me to send it ? 23:07
nothingmuch umm, any webspace
or [email@hidden.address]
UGH!!: use.perl.org/comments.pl?sid=27555&cid=41974
dmo done 23:08
check it before i go to bed, which is ... asap 23:09
nothingmuch thanks!
how big is it?
dmo 5 megs, the exim sucker won't let it through. hold on 23:10
oh no... I'll put it on my server, hold on a sec 23:11
nothingmuch thanks!. 23:12
dmo www.amakuru.net/safari.tar.bz2 23:14
i've got 256kbps up, should be quick enough; Mail seems to have suceeded though ? 23:15
nothingmuch errm, mutt is sorting inbox 23:17
yes, it got here 23:18
dmo++ 23:19
dmo wait until it does work
nothingmuch btw, there's an easy way to make archives - context click on something and say 'make archive'
it creates a zip
dmo zip is evil
nothingmuch ah, but there is more magic - it does resource forks too 23:20
and since zip is less evil than stuffit
dmo doesn't it fuck up you permissions ?
nothingmuch what does?
dmo zip
nothingmuch zip? exe bits et al?
dmo owner group and stuff ? it's been ages
nothingmuch the ._MacOSX thing inside it appearantly keeps metadata
dmo alright 23:21
nothingmuch the reason I like it nowadays is that it Just Works
and stuffit is flakey, ugly, and annoying
dmo I'm still more used to Linux than macos
old habits :)
nothingmuch as I see it OSX is enough posix for me too be happy
dmo yep 23:22
nothingmuch but since there's not too much to configure (fvwm? kde? many options?) i don't waste time
plus, i know all the keyboard shortcuts
dmo oh there's still plenty.
nothingmuch sure, the expose stuff, and the apps are nice
but you get enough goodness out of every platform, i guess
windows xp probably has a crap load of magic I would like to use if I knew about it
but i'll never find out since cygwin is not enough ;-) 23:23
dmo i had to struggle to find all the helpers I need
nothingmuch dmo: on what platform?
dmo osc
osx
nothingmuch what do you mean by helpers, btw?
dmo sshAskPass, Witch, iTerm, stuff like that 23:24
a version of gvim that runs nicely
compile qt so that lincvs would run on it without crashing every other second 23:25
osfameron hmmm, what's wrong with using UNIVERSAL::isa as a function?
nothingmuch it seems to work
dmo what ? safari ?
nothingmuch osfameron: Test::MockObject can't lie
dmo: yep
but actually, false alarm
when I replace WebKit it doesn't work 23:26
nothingmuch swaps back
dmo fsck!
nothingmuch nevermind, i just remembered I actually paid for this version of SOX
OSX
so I can restore from CD ;-)
dmo running tiger right ?
nothingmuch yep
osfameron nothingmuch: is that more important than the fact that $string->isa, $undef->isa etc. will die because they're not blessed objects ?
dmo dunno then
nothingmuch osfameron: yes, because if you're going to check on a class you're probably going to make calls, and if you're going to make calls it'll die anyway 23:27
UNIVERSAL::isa is not Params::Validate
it's more like Class::Introspect
and if a class is lying it has a good reason
every time I try to use Test::MockObject some module gets in the way
osfameron: am i making progress in brainwashing you? 23:31
osfameron nothingmuch: I guess I get the point
but as I haven't really used Test::MockObject I haven't really had the problem 23:32
and I don't see why I shouldn't use a perfectly good function in the language
nothingmuch so will you 'use UNIVERSAL::isa "isa"' whenever you want to use it as a function?
well, because if you do that in your modules other people suffer
osfameron which is quoted in perldocs and stuff as what to use instead of ref
nothingmuch perldocs suck in that respect
osfameron because some other module wants to do some evil magic.
nothingmuch we have Scalar::Util reftype
and Scalar::Util::blessed 23:33
osfameron if (blessed($foo) && $foo->isa(whatever)) ?
I guess it's not much more pain
nothingmuch no
'use UNIVERSAL::isa "isa"', 'isa($foo, whatever)' 23:34
if you want it as a function that way behaves correctly
otherwise you can do that
but blessed($foo) && $foo->isa(whatever) is a lot of work
osfameron ah
nothingmuch if you really want to verify that it's an object, you might as well use something more suited for the task
(e.g. Params::Validate)
osfameron I don't like the way that the module perldoc says I'm stupid
:-)
nothingmuch sorry, i was annoyed when I wrote that 23:35
patches welcome
and chromatic's UNIVERSAL::can is more polite ;-)
osfameron hm, I guess UNIVERSAL::isa module is a reasonable reimplementation of the function 23:39
of course I guess perl6 will be able to do things like $scalar.isa('SCALAR') um 'ACTUALSCALAR' or something 23:40
nothingmuch osfameron: ask stevan =)

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