6.2.10 released! xrl.us/hxnb | geoffb's column (/. ed): xrl.us/hxhk | pugscode.org | pugs.kwiki.org | paste: paste.lisp.org/new/perl6 or sial.org/pbot/perl6 | www.geeksunite.net
Set by integral on 25 October 2005.
ingy autrijus: I'll get it shortly! 00:14
seen autrijus 00:20
jabbot ingy: autrijus was seen 1 hours 47 minutes 16 seconds ago
ingy autrijus: are there any completely new docs?
geoffb ingy, did you already have S17? 00:22
Man, this code optimization blog series is going way longer than I expected: www.oreillynet.com/pub/wlg/8260 00:24
Ah well, at least I'm not running low on topics. :-)
It will be nice when I get done with this series, though, and get back to Perl-specific stuff.
ingy geoffb: I have it now 00:38
Perl6-Bible-0.22.tar.gz (The Halloween Edition) on the ether to CPAN now...
geoffb ingy++ 00:39
ingy :)
gantrixx is there anyone here from Phoenix? 01:58
amos maybe! 02:00
02:00 amos is now known as azuroth_tafe
theorbtwo thinks azuroth_tafe is being testy. 02:01
(If you will foregive the foregoing pun.) 02:02
gantrixx well if you are from arizona and are looking for a job, msg me privately
azuroth_tafe no, but I'd like a job anyway . . . ;-p 02:03
gantrixx is autrijus here? 02:04
I did get a company interested in using Perl6
unfortunately, they are interested now
they want to rewrite a bunch of Perl5 stuff to Perl6
azuroth_tafe that's very cool 02:07
Khisanth just not very practical :) 02:12
rep isn't it a bit premature
azuroth_tafe they don't need to start _using_ it straight away though, right? 02:33
gantrixx actually yes they want to start using it 03:08
they thought that Perl5 didn't have multithreading and Perl6 did
actually Perl5 does have it, I'm just not that familiar with it
I did tell them that Perl6 would be a worth while endevor but not until an activestate distrobution is ready 03:09
they use perl-win32
OK, I have to log off now. the kids have stopped comming begging for candy 03:10
I'm going to bed
azuroth_tafe gg 04:28
svnbot6 r7805 | eric256++ | added doc links to two tests. 04:52
r7805 | eric256++ | Added doc link to slurp.t
r7805 | eric256++ | Doc linkes for a few OO tests.
geoffb Apparent bug in 'make register': My PARROT_PATH ends in 'svk/parrot-trunk'. 'make register' dies with an error from ghc-pkg about '.../svk/parrot doesn't exist or isn't a directory'. Something breaking the directory at the hyphen, I'd guess. 07:05
morning, nothingmuch 07:39
nothingmuch morning
geoffb How's life on your side of the planet? 07:40
nothingmuch is doing some catalyst stuff 07:54
as opposed to pugs
someone was needed to fix sessions up
geoffb ah 07:55
Fun at least?
nothingmuch sorry 09:20
geoffb: yes, pretty fun
shlemiel the painter
oops
damn clipboard
(that was from a reply to stevan, if anyone cares, on p6l) 09:21
dev.catalyst.perl.org/repos/Catalys...n-Session/
gaal anyone know a Windows equivalent to strace? 09:32
misc gaal: see sysinternals.com , maybe they have something ? 09:34
gaal didn't find anything there, but now checking out www.bindview.com/Services/RAZOR/Uti...readme.cfm 09:35
sysinternals.com++ #general rockitude
hmmm the bindview strace has a few serious downsides. I think I'll pass for now :/ 09:36
sky__ an 10:45
yawn
rafl_ Is generating the prelude broken currenylt? 11:02
svnbot6 r7806 | autrijus++ | * Wendy's notes of what can hopefully become PA02 that is accessible to nonjargon audiences 12:13
autrijus rafl_: nopaste the error? 12:21
sadly I need to run off to amsterdam.pm meeting in a couple mins 12:22
will checkback iff find wireless
(journal updated)
&
theorbtwo wonders who Wendy is. 12:27
rafl_ autrijus: make realclean fixed it. 12:43
theorbtwo Oh, to answer my own question: Liz's housemate. 12:45
nothingmuch hola 13:09
theorbtwo Hola, Yuval. 13:17
comet_ morning 13:23
Juerd 13:27 < autrijus> sadly I need to run off to amsterdam.pm meeting in a couple mins 14:07
Ohhh, thanks for the reminder
I was living with the notion of today being monday.
theorbtwo: Liz's wife
theorbtwo Oh, I didn't realize she was married. Or a lesbian. 14:08
Juerd I 14:12
I knew the latter, the former only when reading Wendy's site :)
theorbtwo Oddly, I seem to recall a dutch lesbian couple hanging out on the CB around the time Liz was there, but I don't recal Liz being in it. 14:14
How many lesbian dutch perl monks are there? 14:15
stevan theorbtwo: deep down, I think we are all dutch lesbians 14:18
svnbot6 r7807 | stevan++ | Perl6::ObjectSpace - cleaning up some details, making the bootstapping tools easier to use, therefore making the code easier to read as well
stevan autrijus: ping # have some YARV thoughts when you get back
theorbtwo Thank you, stevan, for finally giving a punchline. 14:20
stevan theorbtwo: :)
Juerd 15:23 < stevan> theorbtwo: deep down, I think we are all dutch lesbians 14:27
++
rotflol.
theorbtwo: I have no idea.
theorbtwo: They're the only two dutch female perl programmers I know, even
But then, I really don't know any dutch perl programmers except those I met at amsterdam.pm 14:28
stevan Juerd: maybe you should take a poll at the meeting :)
Juerd stevan: "Are you dutch and lesbian?" 14:30
stevan Juerd: well I think you can probably assume the dutch part
Juerd autrijus will be at the meeting, and isn't dutch. I hope he's not lesbian, though, because that'd mean my gender guessing skills are WAY off :) 14:31
stevan Juerd: you mean, you didnt know?
Juerd Why does this subject intruige you so much, by the way? :)
stevan: haha
stevan Juerd: it doesn't really,.. just a slow morning @work :) 14:32
Juerd It'd be fun, though, if there were any relation between sexual preference and programming language of choice
I myself am gay
stevan is avoiding writing a proposal for a client
Juerd Is Perl a gay language? Many PHP coders seem to think so...
stevan thinks PHP is for transgender bestiality freaks 14:33
Juerd: Lambdas are gay (www.lambda.org/) 14:34
xinming If there were any relation between sexual preference and programming language... I should choose programming language after my preference is finished. :-P
hmm, anyone here knows why iblech didn't come here for now? 14:36
stevan xinming: he usually has the iblechbot log the channel,. and I think he backlogs 14:37
he is also still in school,..
xinming Oh, I just wish to have a conversation with him on a test. 14:38
Limbic_Region I would be more interested in a correlation between preferred language and preferred hobbies then in sexual orientation
but I guess that's because I already have a mate and am just looking for a pal ;-) 14:39
Juerd Limbic_Region: I think sexual orientation has a lot to do with hobby... :)
stevan Juerd++ :)
my name is stevan, like proramming in perl, long walks on the beach and reading sci-fi novels 14:40
Limbic_Region Juerd - maybe so but I don't really care about the sexual orientation aspect. Only if they enjoy the same things I do
Juerd Yes, enjoying the same things is important for sex too.
Limbic_Region hasn't had too many gay men fall for him to make it a problem of avoidance
s/problem/reason/ 14:41
Limbic_Region is in the process of reviving the currently defunct local PerlMongers group
xinming ?eval class a { has $.a; method update { $.a; } };class b { has $.a; submethod BUILD { a.new( a => $.a ).update; }; }; b.new( a => 20 ); 14:42
evalbot_7807 Error: No compatible subroutine found: "&update"
xinming hmm, Ok, I will ask here anyway.
Is my example cause recursively method calls?
stevan thinks people might be more likely to go to a perlmongers meeting if it involved sex
Juerd ... 14:43
xinming hmm, indirectly... 14:44
Just wish to my test better...
s/to/to make/ 14:45
:-S why If I ask this question... all people are becoming quiet? :-/ 14:49
stevan ?eval class a { method update { 'foo' } }; a.new().update(); 14:52
evalbot_7807 "foo"
stevan ?eval class a { method update { 'foo' } }; a.new().update;
evalbot_7807 "foo"
xinming but for the indirect class instance creation... It will get the problem. 14:53
with class name and attribute which are the same...
stevan xinming: what do you want b.new() to return?
xinming if you change class name a -> A, and b -> B, the problem will go. 14:54
stevan ok
xinming stevan: returns nothing, Just create a instance and call a method from other class, and return.
stevan xinming: this will (hopefully) be fixed with the metamodel 14:55
xinming stevan: Yeah, I know, I want to know if the test is finished right now, or after the bug is fixed. :-) 14:56
when should I finish the test. 14:57
stevan xinming: commit the breaking test,..
it will encourage people to fix it :)
xinming stevan: It's already there.
pugs/t/pugsbugs/class_name_and_attribute_name_confliction.t
ycheng /join #sx 14:59
theorbtwo Can you change confliction to conflict? 15:00
xinming theorbtwo: well, do as you wish, as my English is poor. :-/ 15:01
sorry for my poor English
theorbtwo Your english is /far/ better then my Chinese. 15:02
xinming theorbtwo: that makes no sense on comparing English with Chinese... vice versa... As I still have to learn.. :-) 15:03
obra seen luqui 16:04
jabbot obra: luqui was seen 1 days 12 hours 37 minutes 54 seconds ago
eric256 anyone know the name of a web based linux config tool? i always forget its name ;( 16:18
xinming eric256: webadmin? 16:19
PerlJam eric256: try typing "web based linux config tool" into google.
xinming thinks webadmin might be the most famous one. :-/
PerlJam xinming: It's the first link in google if he'd done what I said.
eric256 webmin.. 16:20
PerlJam thats what i was searching with ;)
xinming PerlJam: It's what I think when I saw he asked. ;-)
but maybe wrong... :-/
eric256 webmin is it. webadmin is something different... i worded my google query slightly different and didn't get that at all. lol 16:21
xinming eric256: webmin is correct, I ever used this for over month when I was in BeiJing, But now, I prefer ssh instead. ;-) 16:24
eric256 yea but i need to do some stuff i ain good at..i'm hoping it will automate them. ;)
eric256 and FTP don't get along well at all
xinming prefer lftp as client and proftpd-mysql as server. 16:26
eric256 i can't seem to get any FTP setup to actualy work.
i'm just not realy a sysadmin at all. 16:27
Khisanth well ftp has fun issues with firewalls :) 16:33
theorbtwo Try both passive and non-passive.
Sometimes only one or the other will work.
FTP is not a good protocol for the age of the NAT.
Khisanth I don't think either of those will work if both side has a firewall 16:34
eric256 its not connecting. its setting up the FTP server.
theorbtwo Would be likely, Khisanth. 16:36
HTTP is really a much more sane design.
xinming hmm, it both are behind the firewall, I'd prefer use http for serving files.
or do some port-map for ftp, But I don't know if it really works though. :-P 16:37
for http, just map the firewall 80 port into the server, that's all done.. IMHO
s/it/if/ 16:38
theorbtwo Or any other port, and give the port in the URL. 16:39
eric256 just needs point and click isntallation of FTP ;)
theorbtwo FTP tries to use a seperate connections for data and control.
eric256 or maybe one that installs itself when i mumble an incantation 16:40
theorbtwo That means it needs to be able to make another connection like this one, and associate them. HTTP just needs the one.
xinming in fact, for Unix users, scp isn't not that bad.
theorbtwo Why do you need ftp for this?
integral scp eats way more cycles than ftp though 16:41
eric256 for this? /me needs it for work. i have a web developer who needs access to the files and be able to FTP them up and down.
xinming eric256: try svn. ;-)
integral: well, For convience, ssh isn't that bad for the machine nowadays. 16:42
eric256 xinming... doesn't five me what i need i promise
xinming what does five mean here? >_<
eric256 s/five/give/ f and g are next to each other ;) 16:43
theorbtwo Ah, OK, that makes sense. 16:44
What is your firewall?
eric256 this is all on the same network 16:45
though my lin box seems to have some sort of firewall of its own in place. /me curses 16:46
xinming iptables? ipchains?
Khisanth tables probably
theorbtwo Oh. 16:47
Hm, you said it's not connecting at all, or just not working? 16:48
eric256 iptables
local wget on the machine gets the login page, anything elsewhere times out.. looking for the config for iptables
theorbtwo You probably need to open up a hole in your firewall. Possibly just get rid of it.
xinming \ 16:49
eric256 yea. /et/csysconfig/iptables found. ;)
Khisanth well you need 21 open and posssibly some more if you are not using passive, if you are using passive you should probably specify a port range 16:50
eric256 now i fi only understood the syntax. lol /me laughs in misery. hehe computers are soo evil
turned off firewall and rejoiced 16:51
its behind at least 2 other firewalls anyway....who would need so many firewalls. arg ;)
17:16 stef_ is now known as cognominal_
geoffb eric256, defense in depth. 17:16
geoffb used to be a certified Paranoid Bastard, but now just doesn't have the time for it. 17:17
Thankfully, I set up my firewalls will I was still a PB. :-)
Anybody here remember FSP? 17:18
theorbtwo Each firewall is to firewall from different people. 17:25
The last one to firewall you from everybody else one the network... 17:26
eric256 freaking thing keeps saying invalid login. arg. 17:38
Khisanth which server are you using? 17:39
eric256 proftpd
Khisanth and where is it getting the login/pass info from?
eric256 how do i know?
Khisanth hmm that should be in the .conf I guess 17:41
eric256 yea. it doesn't like running in inetd, but standalone works fine ;) /me rejoices 17:51
svnbot6 r7808 | iblech++ | * Usual svn props. 17:55
r7808 | iblech++ | * t/pugsbugs/class_name_and_attribute_name_confliction.t: More investigation --
r7808 | iblech++ | the main cause for failing is now clear (look inside the file).
eric256 chears hystericaly 17:57
geoffb :-) 17:58
pmurias hi 18:00
svnbot6 r7809 | stevan++ | Perl6::ObjectSpace -
r7809 | stevan++ | * added the symbol type, to represent variable names and
r7809 | stevan++ | optionally the assoiciate type
r7809 | stevan++ | * closures now need closure::params instead of list() for
r7809 | stevan++ | its param list, and that list must be made up of symbols
r7809 | stevan++ | instead of strings (which means we get (basic) type
r7809 | stevan++ | checking for free)
r7809 | stevan++ | * hash can now take any type for the key, but it will always
r7809 | stevan++ | stringify that type, and not keep it around (this should be
r7809 | stevan++ | fixed, but is okay for now) 18:01
r7809 | stevan++ | * added some more methods to the bootstrap file as well
eric256 iblech...i'm not sure your right...well i'm not sure your wrong. just when i was testing that example i was doing so with only one set of classes in the file.
hmm iblech isn't here....
eric256 wishes iblech where here...i just tested it and indeed it breaks even with only one set of classes so i think you might be following a different bug 18:02
geoffb eric256, it's possible he may notice his name went by in iblechbot, but I don't know how careful he is about that 18:03
xinming yeap. :-P iblech might misunderstand me. :-P 18:05
twobitsprite I'm looking for resources on writing parrot asm, but I'm having a hard time finding an actual list of opcodes... 18:07
eric256 www.parrotcode.org/docs/ .. youve probably looked there, but just in case 18:08
PerlJam twobitsprite: particularly www.parrotcode.org/docs/ops
oh, I guess that's empty now. 18:09
never mind, ignore me.
twobitsprite yeah, I saw that, but I was confused by the notation... they notate opcodes as opcode(stuff, stuff)...
Limbic_Region ok - anyone who knows/understand the Makfile.PL about? 18:10
twobitsprite PerlJam, no, it's not empty...
PerlJam mine is.
Limbic_Region in particular, portability
twobitsprite well... they list, i.e. the opcode "bnot" in the notation "bnot(inout INT)"... is that the actual syntax? i.e. in my .pasm file, would I say "bnot(inout 4)"? 18:11
eric256 maybe compare www.parrotcode.org/examples/pasm.html to the docs so you get a feel for how the documentation works
twobitsprite eric256, ahh ha... examples! :) 18:12
thanks
this should keep me busy for a while...
geoffb twobitsprite, why are you working in raw PASM anyway? 18:13
eric256 warning /me doesn't know the difference between PIR, Parrot, PASM and a can of worms.
geoffb Better to use PIR, for your own sanity.
twobitsprite geoffb, I just wanted to play with it
geoffb, er... PIR? 18:14
geoffb Hey, if that's your -Ofun, go for it. :-)
PIR == Parrot Intermediate Representation. It's higher-level, on top of PASM. Makes it easier to work with.
eric256 so for perl6 we've now designed (we in no way including myself. ;) ) 3 languages? PASM,PIR, and Perl6?
Limbic_Region where higher in higher-level is relative
;-)
geoffb Hence "higher" in stead of "high". :-) 18:15
s:3rd/ //
Limbic_Region ok - so no takers on the portability inquiry of Makefile.PL? 18:16
geoffb *la la la la la la la*
twobitsprite I see
all over the parrot site, they say the best way to help with parrot was to write asm code, to help test, etc... should I instead be using pir? 18:17
PerlJam twobitsprite: WRT your question, no that's not the syntax. you could use "bnot X" or "bnot(X)" where X is one of many things.
geoffb leo, I think twobitsprite should be talking to you
PerlJam twobitsprite: IN parameters are for input only, OUT are for output only, and INOUT do both.
twobitsprite: X could be an I-register or a P-register, etc. 18:18
leo here I am 18:19
pmurias Is there a short tutorial to perl6?
geoffb twobitsprite, meet leo. He's the guy you need to be asking about PASM and PIR . . . though he will probably want to take you to the parrot channel first 18:20
twobitsprite tried the parrot channel, only to find the void
geoffb twobitsprite, not on this network. irc.perl.org, I think. 18:21
leo twobitsprite: #parrot is at pobox
Limbic_Region twobitsprite - I thought #parrot was on a different network
twobitsprite I see
eric256 that. seems silly
leo irc.pobox.com
geoffb leo, you might want to become op on #parrot on freenode, just so you can keep a topic in that channel pointing to the correct network 18:22
leo I can try that - good idea
eric256 or we could stick a bot in there. 18:23
PerlJam the bot could hang out in #parrotsketch and rely the conversation for readonly access too. 18:24
:)
geoffb Take it away, Eric the Orchestra Leader 18:25
eric256 looks around behind him....damn volunteer traps, i'm always falling into those 18:26
geoffb ... -Onot_fun: porting perfectly decent SQL code to Oracle ...
eric256, heh
pmurias I'am thinking of writing a 1-2 page tutorial to perl6 for my english assigment , any sugestions? 18:28
PerlJam eric256: PoCoIRC is your friend.
pmurias: Is your english assignment to write a technical document? 18:29
eric256 PoCoIRC? will it help me avoid traps? lol
pmurias Not really?It's just a free topic one :)
geoffb pmurias, take a look at some of the slideshows . . . doc/talks/ has some
eric256 lol. /me pictures the tortured look on pmurias' english teacher.
geoffb :-)
eric256 is this the, "make the paper so boring she wont read it all" aproach? 18:30
pmurias a bit
The point of the assigment is to just write something usefull. 18:31
eric256 i would bet that your teacher doesn't include tutorials, technical manuals, or indexs as "free topic" material.
eric256 doesn't miss the days of writing papers even a little
pmurias The point was to use engilsh as tool not the objective. 18:32
So it should be ok.
eric256 ahhh. interesting teacher and assignment
pmurias english isn't our native language. 18:33
geoffb Yours is pretty good, pmurias
eric256 ahhh. that makes more since
yea i wouldn't have guessed, obviously. ;)
xerox 'useful' ;-)
pmurias It would be usefull to hack ispell into BitchX 18:34
xerox Try out Circe :-)
pmurias How upto date to the perl6 definition is pugs 6.2.10? 18:38
eric256 both are moving targets. perl6 isn't anywhere near completly specced out, but pugs keeps very close to the latest decisions on p6 18:39
PerlJam somehow "moving target" seems like a tremendous understatement ;-) 18:43
eric256 "implementing perl6 with pugs is like trying to swat a fly with a chop stick" ;) 18:46
now *thats* a moving target. ;)
pmurias pugs 6.2.10 isn't hopefully a moving target :) Unless you switch tarballs behinde the scene :) 18:47
PerlJam eric256: Didn't you see the Karate Kid? Catching a fly with chop sticks is so easy that Ralph Macchio could do it; swatting one shouldn't be any more difficult! ;-) 18:50
eric256 pmurias...while 6.2.10 might not be moving..perl6 certainly is
pmurias I'm grabbing perl 5.8.7 to compile the latest svn revision. 18:52
I was just considering useing the 6.2.10 installed on by debian server box...
eric256 scratches his head. what? compile SVN or compile the newest 5.8.7?
pmurias The latest pugs revision. 18:54
PerlJam eric256: he's compiling Perl6::Pugs (or whatever the module name is) with perl 5.8.7
eric256 whats that have to do with perl 5.8.7?
pmurias from the subversion repository
eric256 ohhhh
PerlJam (I'm guessing)
pmurias pugs requires 5.8.1
and 5.8.0 was included with slackware 9 18:55
eric256 then why are you grabbing 5.8.7? or you don't have perl at all yet?
ohhh.
PerlJam why does pugs require 5.8.1?
pmurias Don't no 18:56
obra 5.8.0 was very buggy
pmurias Makefile.PL used to say it requires 6.0.0 in the error message previously 18:57
So i was scared off from the source packages untill recently
:) 18:58
eric256 lol
PerlJam oh well, I'm going to continually be blissfully ignorant of the whole thing as I never use a perl < 5.8.6 these days 18:59
eric256 pmurias just get a feather account from Juerd then you can always play with the newest pugs...its recompiled every 15 minutes (if there are changes) 19:00
ArchDist anyone have a suggested book on perl for non-programmers/beginners ? 19:21
geoffb ArchDist, you may want #perl instead. #perl6 is for development of the Perl 6 compiler 19:22
Khisanth learning perl and beginning perl
Limbic_Region ArchDist - perlmonks.org/index.pl?node_id=284175 19:23
perlbot learn perl
perlbot learn.perl.org/library/beginning_perl/
ArchDist geoffb: thanks ! 19:24
geoffb In the Perl Training BOF at OSCON Portland, it was pointed out that LP assumes the user programs in some other language already, which the authors freely admitted
ArchDist, np
hmmm . . . 19:25
ArchDist yeah LP is not great for non programmers and perl for dummies sucks
thanks ! 19:26
geoffb perlbot, #perl6 is for development of the Perl 6 compiler; #perl is for general Perl questions and discussion
perlbot added #perl6 to the database
geoffb perlbot, tell geoffb about #perl6
I should have thought of that a long time ago
Anyone know if there's a shorter way to give that command? 19:27
Khisanth which? 19:28
geoffb "tell nick about topic" 19:29
pmurias Could i get a feather account Juerd ,please?
Khisanth you could do perlbot #perl6 > geoffb
geoffb perlbot #perl6 > geoffb
perlbot #perl6
perlbot for development of the Perl 6 compiler; #perl is for general Perl questions and discussion
geoffb It would be nice if it left the leading "#perl6 is" in 19:30
(and thanks, Khisanth )
Khisanth perlbot: forget #perl6 19:31
perlbot removed #perl6 from the database
Khisanth perlbot, #perl6 is #perl6 is for development of the Perl 6 compiler; #perl is for general Perl questions and discussion
perlbot added #perl6 to the database
Khisanth :P
geoffb (w00t! /me just changed made several different pieces of his code lie to the rest of the app, and it all just worked the first time. Unbelievable.) 19:32
r0nny yo
geoffb Khisanth, :-)
19:47 Lopo_ is now known as Lopo
geoffb Man, my heart gets an adrenaline hit every time I have to drop a DB table . . . . 19:58
Norm! 20:00
er,
nothingmuch@
nothingmuch hi
any news
?
geoffb Not a huge amount. Autrijus is hacking and docing, so all is good right now. 20:01
And I'm multitasking $work, #perl6, and gjbforth, so as to reduce the $work pain. :-) 20:02
nothingmuch when work is a pain i actually spend less time on the compu 20:03
work *is* a pain right now
and I'm doing some catalyst stuff
no brain power for anything else
geoffb nodnod
nothingmuch (computer related)
geoffb That implies Catalyst doesn't require much brain power?
nothingmuch instead i built some shelves and i'm replacing the straw seats in our 11 year old chairs with wooden seats
no, it means that after catalyst I have nothing left ;-) 20:04
built shelves... beh
sanded
geoffb :-)
nothingmuch and installed
the seats require some sawing, but nothing complicated
svnbot6 r7810 | iblech++ | * Usual svn props. 20:13
r7810 | iblech++ | * t/syntax/unicode.t: Added tests for Unicode subroutines, methods, parameters
r7810 | iblech++ | and placeholder variables ($^foo).
r7810 | iblech++ | * t/syntax/parsing/gt.t: While adding these tests I found a bug:
r7810 | iblech++ | ~< foo bar> # does not parse (as does +<...>).
r7810 | iblech++ | * t/pugsbugs/class_name_and_attribute_name_confliction.t:
r7810 | iblech++ | * s/method BUILD/submethod BUILD/
r7810 | iblech++ | * Removed the eval() guards, as these cause that no single .update method
r7810 | iblech++ | is called (as the code inside the eval()s doesn't resolve the classnames of
r7810 | iblech++ | its outer scope as classes, but as subroutine names --
r7810 | iblech++ | class Foo {...};
r7810 | iblech++ | eval 'Foo.new'; # parsed as Foo().new, not ::Foo.new
r7810 | iblech++ | * Added inline XXX comments pointing to the "$var not captured" problems.
r7810 | iblech++ | Also added some more comments.
nothingmuch woah 20:15
xerox (++)++ 20:16
pmurias Shoud a perl6 tutorial teach 'no strict' code
nothingmuch pmurias: probably not
the things that require unstricting are not what you teach in a tutorial 20:17
PerlJam pmurias: depends on how the tutorial is bent.
stevan is there such a thing in perl6?
pmurias it wouldn't have to introduce my early on
PerlJam stevan: sure.
stevan hola nothingmuch
nothingmuch hola stevan
www.kiva.org/index.php
boingboing is making me happy
i thought it would be too much
PerlJam pmurias: If it's a tutorial on "how to do perl6 one-liners" or "obfuscation in perl6", then no strict is probably okay :) 20:18
stevan PerlJam: what is no strict in perl6/
pmurias Is there a way to read in input without the =$IN syntax? 20:19
PerlJam stevan: while stricture is the default, perl certainly isn't going to hold you to it if you tell it not to.
pmurias: $IN.read() or some such. 20:20
pmurias my $name = =$IN; # is strange indead
PerlJam pmurias: (assuming you meant without unary =)
nothingmuch hmm?
unary = is lazy, isn't it?
integral sure not in item context though? 20:21
stevan PerlJam: well I guess I just didnt think there were strictures in perl6
nothingmuch i would think
err, sorry
integral *surely
nothingmuch i would think it would simply generate a list
that in scalar context becomes an array ref
and this list contains $IN (no data read)
integral hmm, I thought = was just the general read-and-advance for an iterator 20:22
pmurias $IN.read() dosn't work
:(
PerlJam stevan: oh no. perl6 will default to the moral equivalent of "use strict" unless you tell it not to (there are various ways) or you're writing something on the command line.
pmurias: maybe it's readlin()
pmurias: maybe it's unimplemented :)
nothingmuch pmurias: look in t/builtins/io 20:23
pmurias it's readline
souns pythonic
stevan PerlJam: I get all that,.. but I just dont recall reading anything which said "this will be only available under "no strict""
nothingmuch we still have circumfix <>
PerlJam stevan: as usual "evil behavior" will only be available under "no strict" :) 20:24
nothingmuch hmm.. maybe we don't. I did see it though
somewhere
it conflicts with <quote words> now
stevan PerlJam: seems to me there is plenty of evil behavior available under strict too ;) 20:25
PerlJam stevan: yeah, but it's differently evil. Only truly evil stuff (like code that Damian would write) is available under "no strict" ;)
pmurias maybe 'use very strict;' should be implemented :)
nothingmuch oh wait, filehandles in iterator context are read 20:26
s03 on unary =
PerlJam nothingmuch: yeah, but which is lazy?
nothingmuch iterator context is always lazy
PerlJam for $IN -> $line { ... } # not lazy?
pmurias why is not declaring variables in <10 line scripts considered evil ?
PerlJam for =$IN -> $line { ... } # lazy? 20:27
nothingmuch yes
for $in -> $line { }; # i'm not sure that work
s
PerlJam good. I'm not confused (this week)
nothingmuch but the second is definately lazy
PerlJam nothingmuch: and for *=$IN -> $line { ... } # ? :-) 20:29
nothingmuch weep
cry
i haven't done any OO in perl 6 yet
r0nny yo
nothingmuch so i don't really remember
can't find it now iether
PerlJam And I guess for **=$IN -> $line { ... } # would read STDIN at compile time? ;)
nothingmuch and I should really be finishing important stuff 20:30
heh
for BEGIN { *=$IN } -> $line { ... }
the ircbots have a wonderful example
PerlJam does that work?
nothingmuch my $started = BEGIN { time() }
eric256 pmurias because 10 line scripts often grow later
nothingmuch my $uptime = time() - BEGIN { time() };
eric256 plus habits learned in 10 line scripts are used later in bigger projects 20:31
nothingmuch that is supposed to work
PerlJam does anyone else think we should have a thunk operator that BEGIN,CHECK,INIT,END,etc. specialize to get their particular behaviors?
eric256 ?eval my $started = BEGIN { time() }; say "Took " ~ (time- $started) ~ "seconds to compile 20:32
evalbot_7810 Error: unexpected "\"" expecting block construct, ":", block, "\\", "$!", "$/", "$", "\"", term postfix, operator, postfix conditional, postfix loop, postfix iteration, ";" or end of input
eric256 ?eval my $started = BEGIN { time() }; say "Took " ~ (time- $started) ~ "seconds to compile"
evalbot_7810 Took 0.047528seconds to compile bool::true
azuroth for =$IN lazy? does that mean it'll only try to read from it once every loop, instead of putting it into a big array and iterating...? 20:33
PerlJam btw, I'm *so* glad that I'm not writing a parser for perl6 ;)
azuroth: aye.
r0nny nothingmuch: do u know a good way, to eval files with a :lang<yaml> and fetch the result ?
azuroth cool. just checking :-)
PerlJam azuroth: reads happen as needed instead of all at once.
eric256 my $data = eval $file, :lang<yaml> ? 20:34
kolibrie think you need a slurp($file)
r0nny azuroth: i broke Prelude.pm with a more recent version
azuroth I don't mind :-) 20:35
nothingmuch r0nny: no, i haven't done that yet
eric256 i assumed the file was in $file, not a file handle or name. but yes my $data = eval slurp($file), :lang<yaml>
azuroth is slurp lazy...? :D 20:37
r0nny hmm
odd
azuroth away, ad TAFE 20:38
r0nny for some reason eval brekas if i call a method on a string like "filemane".fslurp where fslurp is a multi sub returns the result of slurp on a file 20:40
is there a way, to output Prelude.pm ? 20:42
svnbot6 r7811 | iblech++ | New docs/quickref/sub: 20:43
r7811 | iblech++ | * Moved some of docs/quickref/control into quickref/sub.
r7811 | iblech++ | * Documented basic declaration, named,positional and required,optional and
r7811 | iblech++ | slurpy params, and specifying the declaration scope.
Juerd autrijus++
webmind heh
r0nny again : is there a way, to output Prelude.pm ? 20:48
eric256 r0nny....what do you mean? 20:50
src/perl6/Prelude.pm
r0nny it tells there is an error in prelude.pm, if i run a special script 20:51
btw - is there a way to run pir files ? 20:52
oh - parro just needed more time 20:54
and it cant find open :/ 20:55
xinming a mouse just bit my finger... So... another sleepless night... :-/ 21:00
eric256 r0nny...i don't think i'm alone when i say....????????? what? 21:01
r0nny eric256: after it failed with pugs i used pugscc to generate a pir file, and ran it with parrot - the result was it couldnt find open 21:02
rafl_ Juerd: ping
Juerd pong, but seeing autrijus do VB Rocketh
not too responsive
and typing while watching the beamer screen
I have no idea if I make typos 21:03
Can't blink, will miss slides
s.will.would.
Limbic_Region oh the PerlMongers meeting is going on right now?
Juerd yes 21:04
rafl_ Juerd: I don't care as long as you read what I write. feather is there to do irc but it's for perl6 stuff only. Is it also OK to be on non-perl channels, etc?
Juerd iff you are also on perl 6 channels, and active in them
rafl_ Hm.. autrijus should give a talk on our pm..
autrijus: Hey, wanna give a talk for chemnitz.pm? ;-)
Juerd his pugs talk is *the* *best* *talk* I've *ever* seen so far
rafl_ Where are the slides? 21:05
Juerd scan logs for .xul
But the slides are really not enough
rafl_ /lastlog xul gives me nothing.
xerox Juerd: is there a video?
rafl_: pugscode.org -> slides ?
Juerd I had seen them, but the experience of seeing autrijus do the entire presentation is... hard to describe
xerox: nafaik 21:06
xerox :(
eric256 colabti.de/irclogger//irclogger_log...xt=checked 21:07
pmurias Juerd could I have a feather account, please? 21:09
Juerd pmurias: request it by email
pmurias: include real name and requested username
make sure the mail address stays valid for the rest of your life
or at least feather's
rafl_ Juerd: again. Is ircing on nonperl6 channels OK on feather? Just to be sure. 21:10
Juerd rafl_: 22:09 < Juerd> iff you are also on perl 6 channels, and active in them
rafl_: I hoped that would be clear
If not, please specify
rafl_ Juerd: Ok, overread it. I'm also on #perl6 and #parrot. 21:11
xerox what is feather ?
Juerd xerox: A machine 21:12
rafl_ feather.perl6.nl. 21:13
xerox Oh! 21:16
autrijus: you posted a nymphaea shot in the Haskell presentation! Cool, thanks!
eric256 Juerd is kind enough to donate shell accounts on it for us poor folks to play with feather on 21:17
integral is there anyone planning to pugs things at LPW?
Juerd eric256: practically, the entire machine is donated
eric256: I don't use it for any business stuff. It's dedicated to Perl 6
haskell talk now 21:18
eric256 Juerd: is there a way for me to run perl6 scripts as cgi scripts on my feather account?
Juerd autrijus++ # three talks in a row
eric256: see feather.perl6.nl/, the faq
geoffb How long is each one, Juerd ?
Juerd CGI is language independent
geoffb: Depends on the talk
geoffb: pugs one was long, vb one was short
geoffb ah 21:19
pmurias I wrote first 75 lines of my perl6 tutorial :)
xerox I mean the slide 251 of pugscode.org/talks/euroscon05/haskell.xul -- yay! :D
eric256 juerd. by CGI i meant how do i execute a script in on my feather account as a CGI.... i don't know how different to say this
we don't have cgi-bin folders so where would scripts go? 21:20
Juerd eric256: Do the apache thing, find the cgi-bin folder.
Run your own apache.
eric256 hmmm....if i must
Juerd If you want to do more than static files, then yes.
suexec sucks, error logs are global.
So you have to have your own apache. 21:21
eric256 alright
geoffb Juerd, is mod_proxy running on feather's main apache?
Juerd geoffb: Yes
geoffb: I'll allow .htaccess soon
geoffb Then he can run his own apache, but proxy requests through, and outside users would never know. :-)
Juerd And you want mod_rewrite too, I guess ;)
geoffb coo
yeah, duh, been a while since I had to set that up 21:22
Juerd done 21:27
geoffb Juerd, just a random thought -- may want to note somewhere that people should through personal Apaches at non-conflicting ports, say 8000 + uid 21:29
er throw
Juerd geoffb: See the s/// in the instructions
It's 7000 + uid, though
Because uids start at 1000 ;)
geoffb Juerd, ah, nevermind, I wasn't reading docs, just thought of that while doing something else 21:30
Juerd I expect people to be able to read perl (and to do so)
geoffb :-)
eric256 i get an error cannot open access.log file when trying the copy command 21:35
thats in refernce to feather.perl6.nl/ and directions to get my own Apache 21:36
Juerd 21:42
eric256: Ignore it.
eric256 hah. i didn't even look i thought it didn't copy any files. /me slaps forhead 21:43
thanks for enduring my stupidity juerd ;) 21:46
svnbot6 r7812 | iblech++ | docs/quickref: 22:16
r7812 | iblech++ | * sub: Wrote about is rw, is copy, rebinding parameters
r7812 | iblech++ | (sub foo ($var) { $var := $some_other_var }), and the Proxy class.
r7812 | iblech++ | * namespace: Minor improvements to the section about binding.
r7812 | iblech++ | * op:
r7812 | iblech++ | * Added "eqv" to the list of ops.
r7812 | iblech++ | * Clarified example usage of &item.
r7812 | iblech++ | * Added example of &infix:<..> working with char ranges ("a".."z").
r7813 | stevan++ | Perl6::ObjectSpace - 22:41
r7813 | stevan++ | * added &is_empty to list (to make life easier)
r7813 | stevan++ | * opaque now enforces the use of symbol types in get/set_attr
r7813 | stevan++ | * added many more methods to the Bootstrap, I am about half-way
r7813 | stevan++ | finished with converting Metamorph.pm. I have also added Perl 6
r7813 | stevan++ | versions of each method as I go along, they could probably use
r7813 | stevan++ | some work though.
r0nny ping? 23:37
is there a string method for prepending another string ? 23:38
geoffb I dunno if it exists yet, but I'd guess .splice(0, 0, $prepend) 23:39
r0nny OMG 23:51
these is a evalfile stitting in prelude since ages :/
eric256 $x ~= "hello" 23:52
r0nny, sure, but how hard is it to make your own eval file? sbu evalfile ($filename) { return eval slurp($filename) }; 23:53
r0nny eric256: it allways fails for a yaml file
tells syntax error at prelude 23:54
well - it dies on pir stuff 23:56
teddyns hi all
does anyone any idea when perl6 might be stable ? 23:57
r0nny yeah
teddyns about 3-4 months ?
r0nny but they dont take my ideas very serious ;P
teddyns :p
just a guess ?
r0nny dont guess
expect nothing till it goes bang, and perl6 is there 23:58
teddyns do u think is it ready for production ?
r0nny no 23:59
its not even fully implemented atm

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