-Ofun: xrl.us/hxhk | pugscode.org | pugs.kwiki.org | paste: paste.lisp.org/new/perl6 or sial.org/pbot/perl6
Set by apple-gunkies on 11 November 2005.
nothingmuch evening 01:29
dduncan evening 01:56
svnbot6 r8010 | Darren_Duncan++ | r959@Darren-Duncans-Computer: darrenduncan | 2005-11-25 17:38:38 -0800 02:00
r8010 | Darren_Duncan++ | /ext/Rosetta-Incubator : reverted version nums on 4 modules to 0.1.0 from 0.10.0, since they never had any X.YY versions
r8011 | autrijus++ | * transcribe some random thoughts re PIL2 before I 06:07
r8011 | autrijus++ | accidentally erase it again ;)
luqui autrijus, ping 06:25
autrijus luqui: pong 06:26
luqui: glad to see you are getting lambdaminded by the day :)
luqui yeah. I'm getting quite frightened to be honest. 06:27
"oh", I think, "I just need an RWS monad"
What? How do I know that?!
anyway...
about the notes you just checked in
autrijus yes?
luqui A PIL tree is merely an (unordered!) set of static declarations;
autrijus (as you can see I'm in a more imperative mood.)
luqui Why not let the PIL tree be the definitinion of the "IMPORT" function 06:28
or, rather, a wrapper around that, but with the same purpose
autrijus I don't quite get it. 06:29
eval 'say 3'
this "say 3" gets compiled with a IMPORT?
please elaborate
luqui well, that was just an idle thought. It just feels wrong to let the tree be definitions at the top level 06:30
instead of something that is executed
autrijus but the definition is expressed as a set of calls to the underlying runtime engine
see example of "say Hello World" below
luqui ahh, yes, I hadn't finished reading them
I'll get back to you
autrijus the unorderness is merely noting that we'd like to go thru one level of indirection for sym lookups
so that the order of executing those definition-statements won't matter 06:31
it'd be much easier to express with code :) but sure, do finish reading them
luqui anyway, I read and grokked "colored local type inference" 06:32
autrijus excellent. that will come in handy.
luqui grokked being the important part. so now I get to design a calculus for perl 6 that is inferrable.
autrijus good. then you need to somehow specify the annotatedness required for union types.
luqui probably taking some linear combination of their colored F<: and PIL2
autrijus that's a Very Interesting research problem.
(and intersection types.) 06:33
luqui oh, yeah, right, union types (as in Foo|Bar), as opposed to tagged unions
autrijus yup
luqui I'm hoping I can finesse them out of the core calculus
that is, still let you write Foo|Bar, but only in a limited set of circumstances 06:34
autrijus right, the quest is to define the limit
luqui make it a pattern matching problem rather than a typing problem
okay.. well, it'll be fun
er, "fun"
autrijus may be of use is Semantic Typing in www.cduce.org/papers.html 06:35
B.Pierce noted we need to grok that if we are to include union/intersection typing.
have "fun" :)
sky__ *yawn* 06:42
autrijus hi sky :) 06:43
luqui heh, re: KISS. I've found that when designing ASTs KISS works in reverse
autrijus mmm?
you want to maximize node types?
luqui you want to get as few nodes as possible, so you overengineer to do so 06:44
keeping it simple involves putting in a special case node where one *might* not be needed
autrijus Keep It Simple, Smart
but yeah, I see your point 06:45
sky__ hi autrijus 06:47
I am debating wheter I should fly to taiwan over christmas 06:48
autrijus that'd be cool
I'll be back from .au on 14th
hcchien christmas. :) 06:51
autrijus .tw president just yesterday proposes to make christmas a off-work holiday 06:52
but probably wouldn't make it on time this year ;)
obra autrijus! hello! 06:57
autrijus obra: greetings! 06:58
autrijus is @ taipei.pm meeting
listening gugod's talk on the much improved, certainly impressive Catalyst 5.57
hcchien obra: did you see my flickr? 07:00
Khisanth autrijus: am I going nuts or did one of your journal entry disappear? 07:02
autrijus Khisanth: you are not going nuts -- I had a minor crisis and accidentally rmed bunch of stuff -- don't ask :/
geoffb *yawn* Hey all . . . .
Khisanth hmm almost 2am 07:03
my cousin was right, this DOES feel like a sunday :(
dduncan greetings all 07:06
autrijus hey dduncan 07:07
obra hcchien: no! where? 07:08
dduncan I notice things have been quiet with you lately ... lots of reading?
hcchien obra: www.flickr.com/photos/hcchien/
obra that RT looks a lot like trac 07:09
hcchien yup. haha
autrijus dduncan: yeah, cc2e mostly, and pbp 07:10
obra how much of RT is tracced?
autrijus pbp is like a fractal - more you read into it more you find - not surprising coming from dconway
dduncan I've read every page of pbp as of a few weeks ago 07:11
hcchien obra: about 5 or 6 template pages now
dduncan there's even a new email list for discussing it now ...
its [email@hidden.address]
obra hcchien: cool
autrijus yeah, and automatic refactorers -- I bought 4 copies to give to taipei.pm 07:12
dduncan started under a week ago
autrijus .tw only had 15 available copies and oreilly.com.tw isn't going to translate it :/
geoffb I wonder why ...? Seems like it would sell like hotcakes in any language.
autrijus comparing cc2e and pbp side-by-side is very enlightening 07:13
geoffb autrijus, do tell . . . .
autrijus mostly, the parts they agree tend to be about programming
the parts they disagree tend to be about C++/Java/VB vs Perl
dduncan does anyone know if there will be another YAPC in Canada any time soon, like the Toronto one? ... 'twould be interesting to meet autrijus in person
autrijus and by focusing on things they agree on, the respective bias can be avoided
dduncan: next hackathon is YAPC::Israel on Feb 07:14
dduncan I can't afford to travel that soon ... summer at the earliest
geoffb autrijus, makes sense
autrijus geoffb: people who read advanced computer books prefers English normally
and "perl books doesn't sell except for cookbook/llama" according to ora.com.tw
geoffb Kinda makes you want equivalent books from other language groups, like a Prolog version.
autrijus indeed 07:15
geoffb I need to pick up Thinking Forth again, I have the feeling it will have a lot of that "best practices" kind of thing as a side effect.
Hmmm, I thought PBP was doing quite well . . . didn't realize it was still far behind the cookbook. 07:16
obra It's also brand new 07:17
It has had no time to build up a mythos 07:18
hcchien: what are you doing the RTrac for? also, when will it be ready?
hcchien obra: just for fun. ui rules. some ppl in .tw love trac, but I think if rt got the frondend like trac, it would be more popular. :) 07:20
obra cool
lots of people love trac
I've been working on something new to make it easy to build lightweight apps.
We'll be releasing the first dev version on Christmas 07:21
hcchien is it on svn repository? 07:25
obra hcchien: not yet. still secret 07:38
still writing demos ;)
autrijus movie! movie!
obra :P 07:39
code sample?
fsck.com/~jesse/JiftyWiki.tgz 07:40
autrijus movie as in: rawmode.org/~gabbana/movie_title.png
obra right. no movies yet. 07:41
certainly not until after the first developer release ;)
sky__ I HATE MOVIES
they are useless
you can't fucking copy and paste from a movie :)
obra we'll be lucky if we manage more than two sample apps
sky__ nor can you skim them
obra movies are great marketing material
sky__ or search them
I disagree
good night :) 07:42
hcchien obra: what is the JiftyWiki? 07:57
a wiki in RT? 08:00
obra no. it's a wiki in Jifty, our new framework 08:04
that code has everything you need for fastcgi and standalone servers, database setup, etc 08:14
hcchien autrijus just present it. :p 08:37
autrijus obra: I presented your NPW slides :D 08:39
_right_ after gugod's catalyst talk
for maximum dramatic effect
hcchien obra: so will the rt be rewitten? 08:40
autrijus luqui: rehi... I gotta run, be back in ~30min :) 09:02
dduncan sky__, who says you can't copy and paste from a movie? it's just a data file like any other 09:35
gaal whoa, is that movie actually available for viewing somewhere? 10:28
nothingmuch movie? 10:36
gaal nothingmuch: you're the star: rawmode.org/~gabbana/movie_title.png (well, your bass-kickin' fingers are) 10:49
nothingmuch oh, that one 10:52
err... =(
merlyn backed out
we're waiting for others to finish audio
r0nny morning 10:53
did anyone try to do a pugs plugin for irssi ? 10:54
nothingmuch goes to visit his grandma
r0nny hello 14:25
are atomic mehtods atomic per instance, or global atomic ? 14:26
(and how to check if one of them allready runs) 14:27
anyone ? 14:28
rafl Juerd_: Will you be at 22c3? Still need something to sleep? Write [email@hidden.address] and say I already asked for a place to sleep for you. 15:05
malverian autrijus: ping 16:00
DesreveR yo 19:48
is there any perl6 thing can search files ? 19:49
anyone ? 19:51
revdiablo File::Find 19:55
I don't know how good it is, or up to date, but it's in Pugs' ext/File-Find
Looks pretty nice 19:56
DesreveR they made it a object 19:58
revdiablo Yeah, the interface looks a bit cleaner than File::Find (don't you just love understatement?) 20:00
DesreveR i'd like ta use it kinda like map 20:02
find{ regex }==>sort==>@queue;
revdiablo Write an alternate interface 20:05
DesreveR hmm
revdiablo Someone would probably give you a commit bit and let you add it to the project
DesreveR hmm 20:06
im far from understanding perl6 good enough to do so
well - i will do a sub can be used with array redirection 20:07
btw - can i limit the types of a member var in a subclass ? 20:09
hmm 20:10
20:12 gaal_ is now known as gaal
DesreveR rofl 20:14
i just realized i can do the insane thing to interpret autofoo files from my build system 20:15
20:35 DesreveR is now known as r0nny
Aankh|Clone G'night. 20:48
Juerd_ rafl: How soon do I have to decide? I may be in a much better position to do so in a week (re 22c3) 21:52
r0nny yo 22:14
how do i pass a local variable as param to a eval'd function call call ?
dduncan why is the function call eval'd ... what part is generated code? 22:17
if no code is generated and you just want to catch exceptions, use a try-block
r0nny no 22:18
i got something where i need to generate a function-name at runtime
dduncan is this function package-qualified or object oriented? 22:19
r0nny package-qualified
dduncan is the package name constant or generated?
r0nny basically i need to generate a special kind of object depending on a variable
its generated
read from a config file 22:20
dduncan is the function name constant or generated?
what about the arg list ... constant or generated?
fyi, I have a working example in Locale-KeyedText where the package name comes from a config variable, but everything else is constant ...
this example works without 'eval' ... 22:21
r0nny can i look at it ?
dduncan if anything but the package name is generated, an eval may be needed
its in /ext
er, its in /ext/Rosetta-Incubator
r0nny where exactly 22:22
dduncan the line says: $text = &::($module_name)::get_text_by_key( $msg_key );
line 229
the $module_name is a package name from a config var, everything else is constant 22:23
r0nny hmm 22:24
Khisanth ?eval 0... ==> @;foo 22:25
22:25 evalbot_8004 is now known as evalbot_8011
evalbot_8011 Error: unexpected ">" expecting term 22:25
dduncan I'll be going outside in a minute, ... 22:26
r0nny darn 22:30
i got a problem loading a package with a generated name
darn 22:31
dduncan I have to go out for a bit, but if you quickly post the code that isn't working (use nopaste if more than 1-3 lines), I may be able to help you
r0nny mom 22:32
there are multiple files
dduncan to put it in perspective, Locale::KeyedText works by invoking modules whose package names are supplied by the user but that otherwise have a known interface 22:33
it tries to invoke the known function on a var-supplied package name, first loading the package if necessary 22:34
the line I showed you assumes package already loaded
r0nny rafb.net/paste/results/kCoS2w20.html
i think i did something wrong on the call 22:36
dduncan so you have a compile problem in a different file ... unless the one you pasted is Builder.pm
nevermind 22:37
r0nny p pasted both files
found the problem
dduncan good
r0nny space betwen function name and op ()
dduncan if I were you, I would break up line 20 into more lines
r0nny well - i will do now 22:38
dduncan eg. slurp into a variable before evaling it
r0nny im going to use my eyml sub
dduncan then make sure the variable contains valid perl code by printing out its contents ... eval requires valid perl code as input methinks 22:39
a yaml file isn't perl code
r0nny btw - it use just a value from the file
so it genrates the package name 22:40
dduncan also I'll warn you that CATCH isn't working yet ... or wasn't last week, but checking the value of $! like in perl 5 (check $@) does work
r0nny wont it die if it cant catch ?
dduncan no, because you have a try block
a try block without a catch is a no-op when exception thrown 22:41
see the Locale-Keyedtext code again for what I refer to
it comments out the CATCH solution and uses the other for now
r0nny hmm 22:42
dduncan if the file slurp results in a package name, you usually first have to 'use' it before invoking a function
r0nny i do allready 22:43
dduncan good
anyway, I have to go out now for a bit ... yard work 22:44
r0nny hf 22:51
23:15 SamB is now known as stupid_2d_gamepl, stupid_2d_gamepl is now known as sidescrolling, sidescrolling is now known as SamB
svnbot6 r8012 | fglock++ | * /docs/notes/laziness.txt - "List" vs "Tuple"; 23:25
r8012 | fglock++ | reorganization of sections.

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