pugs.blogs.com | pugscode.org | pugs.kwiki.org | paste: sial.org/pbot/perl6 | <stevan> Moose... it's the new Camel ":P | .pmc == PPI source filters! Set by Alias_ on 16 March 2006. |
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FB|afk | Pistos, I might have seen some used Model M's through a shop window on Bloor.... | 00:09 | |
want me to ask em? | |||
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FurnaceBoy | s'oh...wc | 00:13 | |
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avar | FurnaceBoy: what of Model M? | 00:24 | |
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FurnaceBoy | oh, just that I may have seen one in a box in a store today through a shop window, I could go in and check | 00:32 | |
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avar | FurnaceBoy: you can buy Model M clones | 00:44 | |
although the company that sells them is ignoring me | |||
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TimToady | ?eval 1+1 | 01:08 | |
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evalbot_9777 | 2 | 01:09 | |
buu | YAY | 01:13 | |
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FurnaceBoy | avar, i'm not sure, cos I didn;'t take a close look | 01:20 | |
I don't want clones, I own a couple of real ones, and they are always available on ebay | |||
actually a usb version would be nice though :) | 01:21 | ||
avar | mm | ||
I'm trying to get one from a friend | |||
FurnaceBoy: does PS/2 => USB work? | |||
FurnaceBoy | haven't tried, I guess so | ||
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nothingmuch | morning | 08:25 | |
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KingDiamond | okay, so the connect() method is confusing me a bit... I want to dump some raw http data... do I just pass all of it as the first (and only) param to connect()? | 09:13 | |
I realized I'm doing something wrong when ethereal shows me wrong http data | 09:14 | ||
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KingDiamond | nothingmuch: any ideas? :/ | 09:16 | |
nothingmuch | KingDiamond: what are you passing to connect? | 09:18 | |
Net::IRC might be a good thing to browse | |||
pasteling | "KingDiamond" at 202.46.19.1 pasted "POST /services/upload/ HTTP/1." (23 lines, 705B) at sial.org/pbot/16523 | 09:21 | |
KingDiamond | nothingmuch: I want to make a request like thus: sial.org/pbot/16523?tx=on&submi...rmat+it%21 | ||
nothingmuch: initially, I did $hdl.say("POST /foo/bar HTTP/1.1\r\n", "Host: www.foo.com\r\n") and then $hdl.say(raw stuff) | 09:23 | ||
ethereal shows something's wrong | |||
nothingmuch | one sec, reading | 09:33 | |
(sorry, distractions at $work) | |||
KingDiamond: what is it *really* sending? | 09:34 | ||
and what are you trying to send? | |||
also, $hdl.say("POST /foo/bar HTTP/1.1\r\n" will send "\r\n\n" | |||
use print | |||
also, have you considered using LWP/HTTP::Request via use perl5: | 09:36 | ||
? | |||
rgs: thanks for the Tie::RefHash fix =) | 09:40 | ||
rgs | woot | 09:41 | |
nothingmuch | btw, is it a separate module too? | ||
rgs | no, it's only core | 09:42 | |
nothingmuch | as in, can Random::InsideOutObjectFramework rely on a version? | ||
hmm | |||
shame | |||
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rgs | but you can CPAN-ize it if you want to | 09:42 | |
nothingmuch | should I ask the author? p5p? | 09:43 | |
rgs | say that you want to do so on P5P, and don't fork. | ||
nothingmuch | okay | ||
rgs | and your Makefile.PL should override INSTALLDIRS | 09:44 | |
nothingmuch | it's not worth forking | ||
one sec, let me write this down | |||
rgs | INSTALLDIRS => perl | ||
(it's 'site' by default) | |||
nothingmuch | okies | ||
rgs | and get the version from latest bleadperl, since I changed stuff | 09:45 | |
there haven't been much changes to this module since 1997 | 09:46 | ||
nothingmuch | yeah | ||
i don't know why people keep duplicating it though | |||
rgs | at least | ||
nothingmuch | e.g. Class::Std could be unb0rked for threads very easily now, using Tie::RefHash::Weak | 09:47 | |
rgs | nothingmuch: well, if you ignore CPAN, you're doomed to reinvent it, poorly :) | ||
nothingmuch | maybe it's not well known enough | ||
s/people/module authors/; # more alarming ;-) | |||
KingDiamond | nothingmuch: k, lemme try with print | 09:48 | |
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nothingmuch | welcome back | 09:59 | |
KingDiamond | nothingmuch: basically, I need to post data like the following: sial.org/pbot/16523 | 10:01 | |
nothingmuch: I'd prefer using connect()... but yeah, if there's no option, well... | |||
nothingmuch | yeah =/ | ||
can you dump an ethereal log? | 10:02 | ||
and your code? | |||
pasteling | "KingDiamond" at 202.46.19.1 pasted "156 my $hdl = connect(Flickr::" (10 lines, 564B) at sial.org/pbot/16525 | 10:03 | |
nothingmuch | the code looks good | 10:05 | |
KingDiamond | and the program just hangs... lemme dump the relevant ethereal log | 10:06 | |
nothingmuch | oh.. hangs | ||
i thought it was sending wrong data | |||
what does strace tell you? | |||
perlbot: seen lypanov? | 10:07 | ||
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KingDiamond | nothingmuch: lemme see | 10:13 | |
darn... I'm on os x | 10:14 | ||
nothingmuch | KingDiamond: ktrace + kdump | ||
KingDiamond | nothingmuch: yeah, doing that :) | 10:15 | |
nothingmuch | both cooler and not as cool as strace | ||
KingDiamond: it's lunchtime | 10:17 | ||
i'll try out the code myself afterwords | |||
and maybe i can figure it out | 10:18 | ||
(I'm doubtful though) | |||
also, if you like you can use perl5:IO::Socket | |||
KingDiamond | nothingmuch: cool, thanks... I'll play around until then | ||
nothingmuch | which lets you keep perl6 space feel, but get a diff connect implementation | ||
KingDiamond | k, will take a look if I fail ) | 10:19 | |
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KingDiamond | nothingmuch: there? | 10:36 | |
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nothingmuch_ | did KingDiamond leave? | 11:14 | |
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Gothmog_ | Yes. Maybe not voluntary. "13:02 -!- KingDiamond (n=premshre@nat.bangalore.corp.yahoo.com) has quit: Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)" | 11:22 | |
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premshree_ | nothingmuch: I'm here | 11:27 | |
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KingDiamond | nothingmuch_: I'm usng something like this: $hdl.print("POST $upload_interface HTTP/1.1\r\n$header\r\nHost: " ~ Flickr::host ~ "\r\n\r\n" ~ $res); but without any luck | 11:28 | |
do you want me to paste the relevant kdump bits? | 11:29 | ||
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nothingmuch_ | KingDiamond: yes please | 11:30 | |
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pasteling | "KingDiamond" at 202.46.19.1 pasted "8409 pugs GIO fd 5 wrote 132 b" (53 lines, 2.2K) at sial.org/pbot/16527 | 11:31 | |
KingDiamond | hmm... "35 Resource temporarily unavailable" | ||
nothingmuch: see if you're able to figure | 11:32 | ||
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nothingmuch | . o O ( why is it doing a select ) | 11:33 | |
hmm | |||
KingDiamond: this is really odd | |||
does the code work on e.g. feather? | 11:34 | ||
brb | |||
KingDiamond | I could try | 11:36 | |
lemme see | |||
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KingDiamond | darn, I'll have to install a cpl modules. | 11:39 | |
meeting. will try after that. | |||
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KingDiamond | Juerd: I wanted to install a perl module on feather | 12:27 | |
Juerd | KingDiamond: And then discovered you don't have access :) | 12:28 | |
KingDiamond: Please create a debian package and then send it to me | 12:29 | ||
KingDiamond: I'd like to keep the system clean of "make install"-software. | 12:30 | ||
spo0nman | Juerd: hello. | 12:32 | |
Juerd | spo0nman: Hello. I received your email but have so far lacked tuits. Can you wait until tonight? | 12:33 | |
spo0nman | Juerd: :) thnks. | ||
KingDiamond: please create a debian package :D | 12:35 | ||
Juerd: He's a mac luser. | |||
Juerd | With access to feather... | ||
spo0nman | yes ... he could build it there. | 12:36 | |
Juerd | And you don't need Debian to create a Debian package, technically ;) | 12:37 | |
It's just an ar archive with some tgz archives in it ;) | |||
spo0nman always uses alien to create debian packages. | |||
spo0nman ducks. | |||
Juerd | But running "dh-make-perl --build --cpan The::Distribution" should suffice. | ||
afk again | 12:38 | ||
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svnbot6 | r9778 | ruoso++ | AST-Design subtree in pX/Common. This subtree can be used to study how the AST for different languages should look like. | 12:55 | |
ruoso added a first sketch on a Perl 5 AST in this subtree | 12:56 | ||
BTW, everything in this subtree was just a first sketch... please change it at will.. | 12:57 | ||
svnbot6 | r9779 | ruoso++ | first change in the Perl5/helloworld AST | 13:01 | |
ruoso has a meeting | 13:02 | ||
KingDiamond | Juerd: okay, will do | 13:08 | |
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audreyt | fglock: I've prepared a tarball (tested) for you at perlcabal.org/~autrijus/tmp/Pugs-Co....02.tar.gz | 13:17 | |
fglock | audreyt: I sent it to CPAN yesterday :) | 13:18 | |
how do you 'make dist' on PCR? | 13:19 | ||
audreyt | fglock: copy it to another path (not under pugs) | 13:20 | |
then "perl Makefile.PL ; make dist" | |||
(need to have Module::Install installed) | |||
fglock | ok | ||
I think the full p6 compiler won't be ready by apr 1st :( | 13:21 | ||
svnbot6 | r9780 | fglock++ | PCR - implemented '%hash' - pmurias++ | ||
audreyt | it wouldn't... but we can send off a PR that talks about lrep.p6 :) | 13:22 | |
ooooh %hash implement! | |||
wow! | |||
that's, like, the critical step :) | |||
fglock | cool - we still have some days to finish then | 13:23 | |
there is an infinite loop in last test in t/06-subrule.t - I can't find why | 13:27 | ||
audreyt | k. I need to crash now -- <3hr of sleep last night and a very long day | ||
got a lot of hacking done though... and learned quite a bit around YARV and ruby internals | 13:28 | ||
fglock | audreyt: have a good night! | ||
audreyt | thanks! | ||
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svnbot6 | r9781 | audreyt++ | * Filter::Simple::Cached support in Module::Compile | 13:30 | |
r9781 | audreyt++ | - drop-in replacement for Filter::Simple | |||
audreyt | ingy: F::S::C is in - pick it up | ||
when you have cycles | |||
& | 13:34 | ||
fglock | fixed! (weird problem with the match state) | 13:36 | |
svnbot6 | r9782 | fglock++ | PCR - fixed an infinite loop in '%hash' | 13:39 | |
nnunley | What's the next biggest thing to work on? | 13:45 | |
fglock | nnunley: I'm always trying to find out | 13:47 | |
nnunley | :) | ||
The subrule tests passe for you? | 13:48 | ||
s/passe/pass/ | |||
fglock | I'm debugging '%hash' - there is a problem when the value is a subrule - it gets the match internally, but it returns undef | 13:49 | |
nnunley | Ugh. | 13:50 | |
fglock | Ugh indeed | 13:53 | |
nnunley | Sorry, I just used Devel::CallTrace to watch the call stack fly by. | 13:55 | |
obra | woot. | 14:01 | |
So glad that code was useful to someone | |||
nnunley | obra: I find myself using it about once every two weeks or so. | 14:03 | |
clkao | obra: i noticed that nnunley is addicted to D::CallTrace | ||
nnunley | I can't hold the call stack in my head all the time. ;) | ||
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obra | What would make it more useful for you? | 14:04 | |
fglock | nnunley: did you find the problem? | ||
obra | hm. Jifty should have CallTrace support in halos | ||
nnunley | obra: It would be nice if there was a DWIMish output for anonymous code blocks. | 14:05 | |
FILE and line number of start of block would work. | |||
obra | *nod* That could be clever | 14:07 | |
nnunley | fglock: Digging briefly to see if I can figure it out. | 14:11 | |
fglock | nnunley: I think I found the problem - the separation between compile/runtime is not right - it is recompiling some things at runtime, and this breaks backtracking | 14:15 | |
nnunley | Yeah, Test 21 has the wrong start. | 14:18 | |
Err, no. Brain not working right. | 14:20 | ||
fglock | nnunley: Brain is ok - the program is not easy at all | 14:22 | |
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lichtkind | sorry for this begionner style question but we had some rants in our forum about perl6 and the question arose: why := vor binding and not =: ? $A := $B seems to be more shortcut for $A = $A : $B or is it that whats wanted? | 14:26 | |
nnunley | fglock: I'm finding it tempting to add local *__ANON__ notations to the emitter. | 14:27 | |
fglock | lichtkind: ':=' is already used in other languages for the same thing | ||
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lichtkind | thanks fglock | 14:28 | |
but isnt it more important to be consistant? | 14:29 | ||
the people here said it would be more logical to the when we use =: | |||
fglock | nnunley: isn't it expensive? the match functions are called thousands of times | 14:30 | |
lichtkind: the logic is that people don't have to re-learn, I guess | 14:32 | ||
nnunley | True. When is the perl5 emitter called? If you have a debug flag that indicates that it should emit anotations, then you generate code with the ANON notation. | ||
And otherwise, not. | 14:33 | ||
fglock | nnunley: that's ok - you can test an %ENV variable | ||
nnunley | Or $main::DEBUG. | 14:34 | |
fglock | how about DEBUG_ANON ? | ||
bbiab & | 14:35 | ||
nnunley | Either works. | 14:36 | |
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lichtkind | ok i have second question is the given/when always tied to smart match or can i say given $level { | 14:58 | |
when 60 { laber.. } | |||
when $_>40 { laber.. } | |||
default { laber.. } | |||
} | |||
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lichtkind | i have synopsys open but together with the book it is a bit misleading | 14:59 | |
PerlJam | lichtkind: your syntax is correct. | 15:05 | |
lichtkind | thanks perljam | ||
but ist because the match is so smart or because its executed regularely? | 15:06 | ||
PerlJam | lichtkind: what do you mean? | ||
when and if are almost synonymous | |||
lichtkind | im currently writing a perl6 summery in german for our board to convince some people to go into perl6 | 15:07 | |
i mean this line when $_>40 { laber.. } | |||
Limbic_Region | lichtkind - what does your given line look like? | ||
given $foo ~~ $bar ? | |||
lichtkind | my question is how ist this line executed | ||
$level > 40 or $level ~~ > 40 | 15:08 | ||
Limbic_Region thinks the given line is crucial to answering the question but is only lurking so proceeds to shut up now | |||
PerlJam | lichtkind: $level ~~ ($_ > 40) | 15:09 | |
lichtkind: I think | |||
PerlJam doesn't remember if $_ is aliased to an explicit named topic or not. | 15:12 | ||
oh, it's neither | 15:13 | ||
when $_>40 { ... } is isomorphic with if $_ > 40 { ... } | |||
lichtkind | thanks folks | 15:14 | |
PerlJam | boolean expressions are recognized at compile time and the smart match semantics don't apply | ||
(according to A04) | 15:15 | ||
lichtkind | your great | ||
PerlJam wonders if pugs does this ... | 15:16 | ||
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svnbot6 | r9783 | fglock++ | PCR - fixed Emitter::Rule::Perl5 compile/runtime separation; %hash is | 16:42 | |
r9783 | fglock++ | broken | |||
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svnbot6 | r9784 | fglock++ | PCR - fixed %hash (last error was a wrong test) | 17:21 | |
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ruoso | nothingmuch, I'm trying to design a Perl 5 AST (it seems such thing really doesn't exist)... my first sketches are in pX/Common/AST-Design... could you take a look at it? | 17:29 | |
nothingmuch, btw... feel free to change it at will... | 17:31 | ||
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fglock | ruoso: h! | 17:50 | |
hi! | |||
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nothingmuch | ruoso: i am not sure I can help with that | 17:55 | |
and either way i'm a bit low on TUITs right now | |||
you should poke at rgs and TimToady as they really know they're stuff | |||
their | |||
and also you might be able to ask on perl5-porters and ger a reasonable reply | |||
ruoso | nothingmuch, ok... thanks anyway | 17:56 | |
nothingmuch | other possible victims include sky_, lathos, diotalevi, xmath (we ought to invite him here - Juerd: can you persuade?) | ||
rgs | ruoso: you can dump the perl 5 optree with B::Concise, but it's a bit far from an AST... | ||
ruoso | rgs, yes... that's why I'm trying to create an AST | 17:57 | |
nothingmuch | rgs: ruoso is trhing to design an AST for perl 5;-) | ||
rgs | I've read the backlog :) | ||
ruoso: have you looked at MAD ? | |||
ruoso | rgs, MAD? | ||
rgs | larry recently patched bleadperl to decorate optrees with extra syntactic info | ||
ruoso | hhmm... | 17:58 | |
rgs | you need to compile it with the proper option | ||
ruoso | rgs, but at this moment, I'm trying to draw how the AST should look like at the end | ||
rgs | extra-bleeding edge stuff ! | ||
ruoso | rgs, I've made some first sketches on px/Common/AST-Design subtree | 17:59 | |
nothingmuch | ruoso: i suggest you model it after the P6 AST | 18:02 | |
but slightly less parse-ish | |||
rgs | what's the goal ? | ||
ruoso | nothingmuch, the problem is that the P6 AST seems too parse-ish | ||
nothingmuch | rgs: IIRC helping the translator efforts | 18:03 | |
ruoso | rgs, svn.openfoundry.org/pugs/misc/pX/Co...ign/README | ||
rgs | which translator ? there are many | ||
nothingmuch | ruoso: you really ought to use MAD to write B::AST | 18:04 | |
rgs | I think so | ||
nothingmuch | also, try to reuse code from B::Deparse | ||
or at least learn from it | 18:05 | ||
the reason MAD exists is that exactly for this purpose: making perl 5 sourcecode accessible to the perl 6 compiler toolchain | |||
ruoso | nothingmuch, I'll take a look | 18:06 | |
nothingmuch, any docs to point me? | |||
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nothingmuch | ruoso: not that I know of | 18:07 | |
ruoso | nothingmuch, :) | ||
nothingmuch | i'm only theroretically familiar with perl5 internals ;-) | ||
rgs | there are no mad docs, you need to check out bleadperl and dig it. (and ask TimToady for problems) | ||
nothingmuch | this means that my guesses are usually right, but I need to poke around to actually make them | ||
ruoso: TimToady also made some YAML MAD trees of most of core perl's perl code | 18:08 | ||
svnbot6 | r9785 | fglock++ | PCR - backtracking into subrules disabled - t/06-subrule.t #20 | 18:10 | |
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ruoso | is there any chance of learning more about MAD without recompiling perl? | 18:13 | |
nothingmuch | not really | 18:14 | |
MAD was written against 5.9.2 in larry's own tree, and then merged to blead about a month ago as an off by default feature | |||
Limbic_Region | ruoso - TimToady really is "The Man" when it comes to MAD | 18:17 | |
there were a few slides and what not but AFAIK, nothing about details | |||
Nicholas might know a thing or two as well now that it is in bleed perl | 18:18 | ||
ruoso | ok... | ||
I'll recompile it at home... /me at work now | |||
ruoso will continue thinking about how the AST should looks like in the meanwhile... | 18:21 | ||
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svnbot6 | r9786 | ruoso++ | another Perl 5 AST sketch | 18:51 | |
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ruoso wonders if it is a good idea to have an special "declarations" property in the AST for each "scope" node... | 18:57 | ||
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svnbot6 | r9787 | ruoso++ | "my" is a possible value for the "visibility" property on a variable declaration | 18:59 | |
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nothingmuch | ruoso: remember that lexical scopes in perl are weird WRT perl 6: | 19:09 | |
my $x = $x; # the second $x is outer | |||
$x; | |||
my $x; | |||
$x; | |||
# these are two different Xs | |||
Limbic_Region | and no implicit scoping either (last I heard) | ||
nothingmuch | so while most scopes in a block end in the same place (call it a scope frame) they don't open in the same place | 19:10 | |
theorbtwo | Indeed, but it comes up less then it did in perl5. | ||
for my $x (@list) {...} -- in perl5, that $x is scoped to the .... | |||
In perl5 it wouldn't be, but that whole area doesn't exist anymore. | |||
nothingmuch | yay! search.cpan.org/~nuffin/Context-Handle-0.01/ search.cpan.org/~nuffin/Config-Pack...l-OO-0.01/ | ||
theorbtwo | Instead, it's for @list -> $x {...}. That $x is still scoped to the ..., but that's because it's a function's parameter. | 19:11 | |
ruoso | nothingmuch, take a look at svn.openfoundry.org/pugs/misc/pX/Co...k_decl.out | 19:12 | |
nothingmuch, I deal with this by aliasing the variables... | |||
so the first $x would receive an alias from the outer scope | |||
and the second $x would receive another alias from the inner scope | 19:13 | ||
nothingmuch | hmm | 19:14 | |
kinda like ANF | |||
where all scoped variables are converted into explicit parameters | 19:15 | ||
theorbtwo | Another Normal Form? | ||
nothingmuch | Administrative Normal Form | ||
PerlJam | theorbtwo: I was thinking "Advanced" :) | ||
nothingmuch | there was an article a while back | 19:16 | |
on translating SSA to ANF and back | |||
ruoso really doesn't know the names for such things... | |||
nothingmuch | and how it's easier to optimize ANF | ||
ruoso: me neither | |||
=) | |||
SSA is simple though: | |||
every name must be assigned only once | |||
and then "combined" later if applicable | |||
ruoso | nothingmuch, hhmmm... that's kind of the idea I had... | 19:17 | |
nothingmuch | so read about SSA | ||
and read about ANF | |||
and also, please remember to KISS | |||
ruoso | :) | ||
what does SSA means? | 19:18 | ||
nothingmuch | single assignment form | ||
or "Static Single Assignment" as the TLA | |||
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Static_single...nment_form | 19:19 | ||
that's a good explanation | |||
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intermediate_...esentation | |||
i wish that was a category | |||
ruoso | it seems ANF stands for Algebraic Normal Form | ||
nothingmuch | nuh uh | 19:20 | |
two different things | |||
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Searc...ext=Search | |||
... that's a pretty good search, IMHO | |||
read a bit about all the languages for GCC | 19:21 | ||
GENERIC, GIMPLE, register transfer something | 19:22 | ||
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nothingmuch | what will we do for april fools? | 19:43 | |
maybe audreyt should change her mind and go back to being a guy? | |||
PerlJam | nothingmuch: male -> female -> asexual | 19:44 | |
Limbic_Region | april fool's is supposed to be fun and I think she takes her gender very seriously | 19:45 | |
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PerlJam | Limbic_Region: true. | 19:46 | |
ruoso thinks anyone who would understand the joke is probably reading this... | 19:47 | ||
nothingmuch | heh, true that | 19:48 | |
okay, what about admitting haskell was a stupid mistake, and rewriting Perl 6 in Perl 5? ;-) | |||
it's plausible | |||
ruoso is actually trying :) | |||
theorbtwo | Right, and not funny. | ||
nothingmuch | we could argue that lrep et all seem like a much wiser development approach | ||
theorbtwo | Admit that it was a mistake, and say that we are rewriting it in brainfuck. | ||
nothingmuch | so we could just scrap the whole haskell runtime and that is | ||
april fools needs to at least start plausibly =/ | 19:49 | ||
Limbic_Region | I was thinking something along the lines of something that was funny, unbelievable, but was actually true (or soon to be true) | ||
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theorbtwo | Exactly. Go several paragraphs before mentioning brainfuck. | 19:49 | |
Limbic_Region | IOW - Pugs itself would have been a great april fool's joke 2 years ago | ||
Limbic_Region wanders off for a meeting | |||
theorbtwo | Announce that The Perl Foundation is suing Audrey. | 19:50 | |
nothingmuch | hmm | 19:51 | |
that's cool | |||
theorbtwo++ | 19:52 | ||
theorbtwo | ...and has sized all his computers. | ||
nothingmuch | his? | ||
theorbtwo | Point to geeksuntie. | ||
Er, her. | |||
Sorry. | |||
nothingmuch | =) | ||
geeksuntie ;-) | |||
theorbtwo wonders why he has returned from the kitchen without dinner. | |||
nothingmuch | i could register geeksuntie | 19:53 | |
PerlJam | and what would geeksuntie have to show people? | ||
correspondence similar to what chip had with his $excompany | 19:54 | ||
? | |||
theorbtwo | A centered font size=400% APRIL FOOL'S! | ||
PerlJam | chip might not find that funny at all though | ||
gaal | Pugs to replace GCC core in motion to create any-to-any compiler? | 20:01 | |
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PerlJam | plausible but true might involve something with parrot being bundled with firefox, IE, Opera, etc. and perl6/pugs as the new javascript | 20:12 | |
gaal | plausible but true? :) | 20:18 | |
ruoso | IE and perl plausible? | ||
PerlJam | yeah, I don't know what I was thinking when I wrote that phrase | ||
gaal | ruoso: uh, sure, that actually exists already | ||
PerlJam | but plausibility is the main goal | ||
gaal | ruoso: it's called PerlScript, unfortunately it never was very popular | ||
PerlJam | and possibly true soon | ||
ruoso | gaal, is it supported by microsoft? | 20:19 | |
gaal | ruoso: it's an activestate thing | ||
ruoso | ah | ||
PerlJam | gaal: "unfortunately"? I then you mean "fortunately" | ||
ruoso on the linux world for the last 8 years... | |||
PerlJam | Because that leaves the field wide open for us! | ||
In any case, could you see the copy? "Industry and open source leaders unite to endorse parrot as the VM of choice for their respective browsers" | 20:21 | ||
<some famous javascript guy> is quoted as saying, "javascript? That's old technology! The future is in perl6 and parrot" | |||
etc. | |||
gaal | one thing about pugs is that it's not very april fool's worthy... too many unlikely things have already happened (eg. -CJS) | 20:22 | |
PerlJam | Or simpler might be "Larry Wall announces today that pugs is good enough and he won't be working on the perl6 design anymore" | 20:23 | |
gaal | but I think -C.NET may be a 04-01 candidate | ||
ah! -CPython :) | 20:24 | ||
PerlJam | gaal: See, that should be the real april fools joke. Just like parrot was an AFJ that came to life, so must they all! :-) | ||
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Limbic_Region | PerlJam - that's what I was saying earlier | 20:31 | |
Something that is funny, unbelievable but true (or becomes true) | |||
Pugs 2 years ago would have been a great april fool's joke | |||
also - playboy.com supporting perl by hosting a cpan mirror - funny, potentially unbelievable, but true | 20:36 | ||
ruoso | so the joke is to make people think it's a joke | 20:37 | |
meta-april's first | 20:38 | ||
Limbic_Region | well, you add icing that is obviously not true like hustler, in an attempt not to be outdone, donates a million dollars to "the other larry" or some such | 20:40 | |
the kernel of truth in it is what keeps people talking about it and perpetuating half truths and generally turning it into an urban legend | |||
*shrug* - I guess I am just tired of the "obvious" stuff | 20:41 | ||
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Limbic_Region | is IO::Socket::INET and IO::Select currently available or doable in Pugs ? | 21:00 | |
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fglock | ruoso: ping | 21:09 | |
ruoso | fglock, pong | 21:11 | |
fglock | we and audreyt started Common/lrep/Notes-Pugs - it has an (incomplete/outdated?) description of the plans for lrep | 21:12 | |
s/we/me/ | |||
ruoso looking | 21:14 | ||
fglock, it's close to what I was thinking in the last days... | 21:17 | ||
fglock, the difference is that I was thinking in a few more steps | 21:18 | ||
like | |||
PCR today returns a match object | 21:19 | ||
a match is not an AST | |||
it's too much parse-oriented | |||
we could have something to turn a match into a real ast | |||
and have this to Perl 5, Perl 6 and PIR | 21:20 | ||
then we can have AST translators | |||
from Perl 5 AST to Perl 6 AST and vice-versa | |||
from Perl 6 AST to PIR and vice-versa | |||
and emitters, that take the AST and emit real code | 21:21 | ||
so... | |||
fglock | did you see TGE in Parrot? | ||
ruoso | not in deep | 21:22 | |
but it seems a good tool to implement the translators | 21:23 | ||
maybe it's just *the* tool | 21:24 | ||
but I think we'll have AST -> AST translators | 21:25 | ||
Limbic_Region tries to refrain from calling any a tool as it is unflattering but being called *the* tool is a compliment | |||
fglock | the place to write about the P6 AST is docs/Perl6/API/AST.pod - how about talking to audreyt and TimToady and start working on it | 21:27 | |
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ruoso | fglock, I started a AST-Design subtree | 21:27 | |
in pX/Common | |||
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ruoso | but I'm working on a Perl 5 AST first | 21:28 | |
so we can know to what Perl 6 AST should be translated to in order to host perl 6 in perl 5 | 21:29 | ||
and also, my feet are much more on the ground with Perl 5 than with Perl 6 | |||
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ruoso | as I know better Perl 5, it's easier to write the AST... | 21:32 | |
and it can be a base to write the AST for Perl 6 later | |||
and TimToady can help without the fear of making Perl 6 the same as Perl 5 :) | |||
fglock | actually, my idea was to make pugs-p5 mostly the same as pugs-haskell - except in a few areas where we can implement new ideas or simplify things | 21:35 | |
svnbot6 | r9788 | ruoso++ | Documenting a possible Perl 5 AST | ||
ruoso | fglock, you mean not emitting Perl 5 code but implementing a interpreter? | 21:37 | |
fglock | I mean reuse pugs AST | 21:40 | |
ruoso: btw, did you see the perl5() method in PCR? | 21:42 | ||
ruoso | yes | 21:43 | |
but I realized that the Match is not the AST | |||
and started thinking in the AST | |||
fglock | the capture is the AST - $match->() | ||
ruoso | and then realized that Perl 5 doesn't have an AST | ||
fglock, the capture is too much parse-oriented | 21:44 | ||
it must be transformed into something more syntax-oriented | |||
I mean, sematic-oriented | 21:46 | ||
svnbot6 | r9789 | ruoso++ | the root node of the AST is always a package | 21:47 | |
ruoso | fglock, see AST-Design/Perl5/block_decl.out | 21:48 | |
and AST-Design/Perl5/block_decl.in | |||
s/sematic/semantic/ | |||
fglock | btw, you can see pugs AST with: pugs -CPIL -e ' my $a = 1; print $a ' | 21:55 | |
-CPerl5 returns the AST as a P5 object | 21:56 | ||
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svnbot6 | r9790 | fglock++ | PCR - improved rule/subrule communication; non-working tests for subrule | 22:48 | |
r9790 | fglock++ | backtracking | |||
nothingmuch | today's 2 hrs: pasta.woobling.org:3000/list/ | 23:03 | |
(tags, broken auto completion) | |||
oh wait, i fixed auto completion | 23:04 | ||
svnbot6 | r9791 | ruoso++ | documenting the Perl 5 AST... several problems to solve... what about globs? | 23:17 | |
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