svn switch --relocate svn.openfoundry.org/pugs svn.pugscode.org/pugs/ | run.pugscode.org | spec.pugscode.org | paste: sial.org/pbot/perl6 | pugs.blogs.com | dev.pugscode.org/
Set by putter on 11 February 2007.
00:00 eric256 joined
Patterner UCSD P-Code was easy. 0-127 was just "push yourself on the stack." :) 00:00
jisom and do you mean how there are 16 opcodes to test for equality? 00:02
svnbot6 r15259 | lwall++ | more {*} hooks 00:03
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jisom dozens for assignment btw 00:03
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eric256 is there a commit log anywhere? 00:13
moritz svn log -r $start_revision:$end_revision I guess ;) 00:14
svnbot6 r15260 | moritz++ | Added tests for PRE and POST subroutine traits
jisom do you use tcsh?
eric256 i meant a web based one...there used to be a web based one that linked to the changes so you could easily see what had been done
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moritz eric256: dev.pugscode.org/browser <-- something like that? 00:17
lambdabot Title: / - Pugs - Trac
moritz eric256: you can order that by date as well... 00:18
eric256 yea i ithink i found it...that is hard enough to find! ;)
moritz that's a bit of a problem... you can't find all the docs :( 00:19
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eric256 there doesn't seem to be *one* place to go to get all the right links, for instance if pugscode.org could link to feather and the dev server etc life would be much easier ;) 00:20
i'm outta her..later
moritz is going to bed as well.. soon ;) 00:21
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lichtkind bight 00:30
night
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Coke (collada) (will coleda. aka Coke) 01:04
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shamu anyone interested in fielding a source filter question? It's a perl 5 question, but I was hoping to ask here because I suspect the population is a bit more sophisticated in this channel. If you can recommend another channel, I'd appreciate it. 01:42
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TimToady Sorry, we're not more sophisticated, just more elitist. :) 01:56
01:58 jisom_ is now known as jisom
shamu Well, I'll put my toe in the water anyway ... :-) 02:00
I was wondering if someone had heard of a filter that would let me test individual subs in a monolithic script 02:01
e.g., a subsidiary script 'testdb.pl' that could have a line of the form
IMPORT_SUB 'db_connect';
IMPORT_SUB 'foo.pl:db_connect'; 02:02
the source filter would pull db_connect's prototype out of foo.pl and stick it near the top of the test script, and pull the sub body out and put it near the bottom
that way people developing foo.pl could keep working and the test script could test the functions by referring into it 02:03
I looked at the source filter stuff, but it looked a bit daunting
TimToady hmm, no clue myself 02:11
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ingy hi Squern 03:11
gah
audreyt @seen clkao 03:16
lambdabot clkao is in #perl6. I don't know when clkao last spoke.
ingy hi audreyt 03:17
audreyt heya. my ALT level is 3000+; statistically I should be unconscious :) 03:18
lambdabot audreyt: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it.
audreyt so they're modding my immune system now
which means I need to get hospitalized for at least another week :/ 03:19
tene yay, fun.
audreyt lots of fun 03:20
ingy sorry audreyt
do you see my msgs?
audreyt yeah
ingy ok
take care then
should I call 911.tw?
audreyt nope, I'm already in a hospital
this lamivudine thing better work... 03:23
bbl :) &
cj woe 03:25
hey audreyt, ingy
paperwork makes me grumpy.
ingy hi cj
cj ingy: anything new and exciting in your world? 03:27
my manager is trying to talk me into switching our codebase from perl to java. good fun there. 03:28
tene cj: why? 03:29
SamB obviously his manager is insane
cj tene: probably because a different tier is in java and they don't want to have to pass the service results from one format to another 03:30
tene there are java-specific data formats that perl can't talk to?
cj tene: :) 03:31
tene Serious question.
cj tene: well, re-modeling the class structure in OOP based on .wsdl files doesn't always turn out so well 03:32
tene: there's something lost in the translation, you could say
tene Okay.
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clkao audreyt: jhi 03:41
audreyt clkao: ēˆ†č‚äŗ† 03:45
clkao audreyt: :/ 03:51
audreyt: you okay?
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svnbot6 r15261 | lwall++ | Got rid of "quote" declarator, just use a macro. 06:10
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svnbot6 r15262 | audreyt++ | * Chase S02/r13586 and change 07:07
r15262 | audreyt++ | q:t / q:to
r15262 | audreyt++ | to
r15262 | audreyt++ | q:to / q:heredoc
r15262 | audreyt++ | Also reflect this change in the tests and examples.
07:09 specbot6 joined
masak way, audreyt++ 07:09
hope you're feeling better soon, btw
audreyt also new bot to chase synopses changes
no prob. sad fact is that I still only get very limited time awake
so I need to go back and faint now :) 07:10
masak do so
it's probably a good step towards getting better
audreyt should be actively better within a week or so... &
masak that's the first non-worrying message so far. thank you 07:11
sleep, uh, unconsce well
07:14 wilx` is now known as wilx
GeJ I second that. Get some rest, and take care 07:14
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GeJ does anyone have the IP address for svn.pugscode.org? 07:14
The DNS servers I'm forced to use give me a SERVFAIL every now and then. 07:15
I should hardcode the IP somewhere 07:16
is it feather?
tene svn.pugscode.org. 300 IN CNAME perlcabal.org.
perlcabal.org. 300 IN A 194.145.200.126
jisom 194.145.200.126
tene how are you forced to use specific DNS servers?
GeJ thank you gentlemen
jisom probably dhcp provided ones
*could* use the root servers... 07:17
tene dig @someotherdnsserver svn.pugscode.org
GeJ tene ask my goddamn paranoid ISP. for the last month or so they decided that I should use their DNS and SMTP
tene they block other DNS requests? 07:18
jisom probably to restrict your web usage and track where you go and what you send, be afraid, be very afraid!!!
or they're just trying to make it all more secure, who knows
GeJ This is just moronic. 07:19
allbery_b did they decide, or did twhoever's other DNS you were using blck recursive queries? 07:20
GeJ they block 25, but leave 587 untouched. 07:21
allbery_b or perhaps other problems, like ECE's blocks TCP so if a result is >512 bytes the fallback to TCP fails (thus, when I was using ECE's nameservers instead of Speakeasy's from home, I couldn't look up google.com)
(or other akamaized services) 07:22
GeJ and for DNS, I just can't connect other boxes on 53
tene That's... lame.
What ISP?
allbery_b yug
but, I'm betting I know why that is 07:23
GeJ small one on a small island in the middele of the pacific ocean
tene 'kay
allbery_b there's a virus out there that hammers a bunch of DNS servers to look up hosts from which it downloads its payload
some ISPs have taken to forcing use of their DNS and blocking those queries
allbery_b is having to deal with that one at work, someone panicked and called in the FBI on us because they have infected machines querying our nameservers 07:25
allbery_b suspects some version of the virus has our nameservers on its shortlist
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svnbot6 r15263 | lwall++ | balanced brackets, some progress on quote languages 08:16
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dmq can the fact that \d matches all unicode digits be seen as a security vulnerability? 10:51
Juerd If something because of this receives unicode data, without supporting it correctly, possibly. 11:02
But that is true for anything - if something cannot support unicode data, the data must be encoded to an encoding that it can 11:03
s/<after encoding>/|charset/ 11:05
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qasim Hi, I am trying to implement the client and server into one program and use the same program on both sides. can anyone point me to a script which already does that 11:07
Juerd qasim: A Perl 6 program? 11:08
qasim no perl 5.5 or before
dduncan try #perl instead
I think
Juerd qasim: Then try #perl. This channel is about the next version of Perl, which is still in development.
rgs nice article on gradual typing in LtU 11:09
qasim I have but no response from there...that is why shifted here
Juerd Next major version, that won't be out soon.
GeJ pomperoi!@#
Juerd qasim: Then try #perlhelp on efnet
wolverian er, perl 5.5?!
qasim thanks
rgs GeJ: hi
dmq: exactly !
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dmq ok, then i wont worry about it 12:12
rindolf Hi rgs 12:13
rgs hi rindolf 12:17
rindolf rgs: what's up? 12:27
rgs rindolf: changed $job, now working with a bunch of crazy perl 5 people
rindolf rgs: I see.
rgs: still in Paris?
rgs ys
yes, even
clkao rgs: congratz. having good fun?
rindolf Hi clkao
rgs clkao: so far yes :)
rindolf rgs: congrats.
Juerd rgs: Aren't all Perl people crazy?
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rgs Juerd: some more than others. You know Abigail ? :) 12:28
Juerd rgs: Yea 12:29
Abigail's a Amsterdam.pm regular
rgs (that was a rethorical question.)
Juerd I have no detector for those :)
rgs makes me think that I might be there at the next Amsterdam.pm meeting
Juerd Are you going to the hackathon? 12:31
rgs no
Juerd In .nl for other business?
rgs yes, like $work :) 12:32
clkao maybe i should go to the hackathon.. 12:33
Juerd Oh, right. So much for the quality of my short term memory...
clkao: Of course you should :)
clkao hen is that again? 2nd ? 12:34
Juerd 2..4
Stay longer and you can come to the Amsterdam.PM technical meeting tuesday 6th :)
s/tuesday/Tuesday/ # silly language 12:35
rindolf Juerd: aren't names capitalised in Dutch as well?
Juerd rindolf: Names are, but parts of dates aren't names here :)
rindolf Juerd: so you say january? 12:36
And may, etc.
Juerd You could say it's the "name of the day", "name of the month"
But then "computer" would just be "name of the object", and you can start capitalizing everything.
rindolf: No, januari.
rindolf Juerd: ah.
rgs like in German
clkao Juerd: i only arrive uk on the 1st 12:37
Juerd rgs: They just capitalize nouns :)
rgs in English prose, important Nouns used to be capitalized to help index builders
Juerd rgs: "The" is the name of the article ;)
12:38 lichtkind joined
Juerd (clipped nails)++ # now I can type again. 12:39
lichtkind Juerd++ :) 12:40
Juerd Hi lichtkind
lichtkind hello juerd see you next week in munich?
Juerd There's a small but existant chance I'll be there.
rindolf Hi lichtkind
Juerd existent.
Still have to re-arrange some stuff, and must find a cheap hostel that has wifi. 12:41
lichtkind hello rindolf whoever you are :)
Juerd Where are you staying?
lichtkind Juerd im in the koala
i mean wombat hostel 12:42
Juerd Hahaha
Koala, wombat. Same difference :P
Do they have free wifi?
rindolf lichtkind: I'm Shlomi Fish, www.shlomifish.org/ 12:43
lambdabot Title: Shlomi Fish' Homepage
rindolf lichtkind: what is your claim to fame.
?
Juerd Weird. They have mixed dorms, and female dorms. No male dorms.
So good news for heterosexuals and lesbians :P 12:44
avar hehe:)
lichtkind juerd find out i dont know www.wombats-hostels.de/munich-hostel/index.php 12:45
lambdabot Title: Wombats Hostel Munich popular Hostels in Munich Bavaria accommodation
Juerd lichtkind: Already there :)
rindolf Hi avar
Juerd I'm emailing them
lichtkind rindolf what you mean, please speak simple im not native speaker, onle german and zcech 12:46
Juerd They say there's "internet access".
rindolf lichtkind: OK.
Juerd In my experience, that means that they have a locked down EUR 5 per 15 minutes web browser terminal.
lichtkind they mean desktop pc i think
yeah yeah
avar rindolf: hi
rindolf avar: what's up?
avar hrm, the usual, hacking @ wrk;) 12:47
rindolf avar: nice.
lichtkind rindolf i heard the name slomy fish, do you mean for what im famous fore?
rindolf lichtkind: what is your claim to fame means what most people know you for, or what notable things did you do. 12:48
lichtkind: and it's Shlomi Fish, not Slomy Fish.
lichtkind are you jew? 12:49
rindolf lichtkind: I'm Jewish, yes.
lichtkind: and Israeli.
Juerd And probably the weirdest contributor to Perl 6 :)
(Which all started with a freshmeat post...)
lichtkind ah cool im great fan of jewish wisdom, i study ist a lot, but not so much of the religion :)
Juerd doesn't like religion in general. 12:50
rindolf lichtkind: I'm an Atheist.
lichtkind: but a Jew by peopleship.
lichtkind thats what we call in germany semit :)
rindolf i think my editor written in perl is whats i mostly known 12:51
but also for my talks and tutorials about perl6 and wxperl
currently writing article about perl6 :) thatswhy im here 12:52
jews have one of oldest cultures, thats always for me astonishing 12:53
Juerd lichtkind: Your English has improved over the past year :)
lichtkind thanks
thanks also to slashdot :) 12:54
Juerd I just remembered that I first met you only a year ago, at the GPW.
rindolf lichtkind: what is your editor?
lichtkind: I mean the editor you wrote.
lichtkind i understood
i just stumble because i didnt found a final good name for it
but most of the time it was called PCE 12:55
see under proton-ce.sf.net
Juerd lichtkind: Too bad lightscribe is already taken by the optical media industry ;)
lichtkind it paused a bit but gaining noe steam again
:)
now is search for something with spiritual meaning what doesnt scare people away that are athiests :) 12:56
Juerd would suggest lucifer, but that would probably not be received well either ;) 12:57
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lichtkind i dont like satanism 12:57
Juerd But it wouldn't scare off atheists 12:58
lichtkind as any religion... my favourit was kephra, its old egyptian term vor heart
but in all respect sir its very stupid to play with these energies especially if your not know how deal with it 12:59
weapon can kill even if you dont believe in bullets
Juerd Human kind plays with all kinds of unknown energy. 13:00
lichtkind sad but true
but i heard there are buch more more israelis here in pugs team than rindolf 13:01
Juerd Maybe satanism is wrong, perhaps christianity is wrong. My belief is that no religion really makes sense.
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Juerd Religion is a human invention, as far as my limited mind can tell. 13:01
rindolf lichtkind: there are nothingmuch and gaal and shay
Juerd Thank your for your interest in Wombat's City Hostels. 13:02
We in Munich have 6 public terminals but, unfortunately,
no WiFi or other internet connection for our guests.
</quote> Okay, that takes Wombats Hostel off the list
I need more than access to web mail :)
avar lichtkind: considered releasing that editor on cpan? 13:03
lichtkind Juerd mohammed was completly right most religion were inspoired my higher conciousness but were perverted over time, and yes most religion contain lot of valuable wisdom
avar yes its close to
juerd but you need some education to recognize it so its mostly useless 13:04
and religion were often the tool to remain power in wrong hands
Juerd IMHO, it's culture that spreads wisdom, and religion is one of many forms of culture. 13:05
shay who named me
Juerd Not really opinion. Perception, probably.
rgs and nurture spreads food. hmm, pie
shay rindolf, hi Shlomi
Juerd pie++
shay: You, or your parents?
shay hello Juerd :) 13:06
lichtkind avar alias helped me to make in cpan ready just have to merge in some changes :)
Juerd is surprised to see "just" and "merge" in one sentence. 13:07
lichtkind haha
it seems you know what you talking of
Juerd of course in religion part of culture, but if only count as religion if it contains spirituality 13:08
unfortunatly most religion contains a lot of sick cults
avar why would something that's a "sick cult" not a count as a religion? 13:09
shay I'm travelling home in an hour 13:10
gotta get ready
see you laters
lichtkind it contradicts is proposed goals 13:11
Juerd avar: Or vice versa, which is a question that popped up in my head when I read some holy books.
avar wanders off
lichtkind good bye
avar lichtkind: You're assuming that a "religion" needs to have some inherant goals
Juerd It's a good thing that modern followers no longer interpret those books literally.
lichtkind yes the latin word religio proposes its goal
Juerd lichtkind: Religion requires spirituality? Why would that be? 13:12
lumi lichtkind: What are these proposed goals?
avar religion is just an adherence to some belief
lichtkind the goal to lead you back to god
thats by definition spiritual
Juerd o/` What if God was one of us? 13:13
lumi That seems to limit "religion" to something very much like Christianity
lichtkind we are god
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avar No, there have been hundreds of thousands of religions throughout human history. The definition you propose doesn't cover them 13:13
wolverian now you sound like satanists :)
Juerd lichtkind: Perversely, I like that thought :)
lumi Thou art God
avar but meh, /me gone
Juerd Hm. "lumi".
Another bright nickname :)
Bye, avar
lumi Juerd: It's a snowy one :) 13:14
Juerd Snowy?
lumi lumi is Finnish for snow
Juerd wolverian: It all depends on one's Rorschach Test results ;)
lumi: Ah
lumi: I interpreted it as short for luminance 13:15
lichtkind wolverian i think satanism is stupid, but with many things they say are they more correct that christians :)
lumi Lumi & Chroma -- They Fight Crime
wolverian lichtkind, laveyan satanism? 13:16
merlyn against the evil "Hugh"
Juerd Hm. "One last song before I leave" doesn't work if it's a one hour mp3.
lichtkind wolverian that too
wolverian I find it pretty intuitive, though I'm not sure if it's a religion. :)
merlyn maybe satanism is just being the devil's advocate about christianity? :) 13:17
lichtkind Juerd how you came to that conclusion?
wolverian completely atheistic religions are weird.
Juerd Ehm. The devil is playing with my mp3 player.
My squeezebox just randomly selected Bach's "Wie schƶn leuchtet der Morgenstern".
merlyn s/devil/RIAA/
lichtkind hahah
wolverian squeezebox++ # that's scary 13:18
merlyn but that's redundant
Juerd I must admit that I am indeed more than surprised.
merlyn "The Devil, through his wholly owned subsidiary, the RIAA, announced today that ..."
13:18 __Ace__ joined
__Ace__ anyone here know a good doctors irc chan? 13:18
lichtkind Wolverian the problem i have with satasim that the whole thing is like christianitiy based on foolin people 13:19
Juerd <quote> 13:20
Thank you for your e-mail.
The guests in this Hotel can use the wireless internet with their
Own Laptop and it's for free.
We are looking forward to your booking.
</quote>
That's better. (Jaeger's hostel)
lichtkind juerd wombat?
ah
Juerd lichtkind: No, Wombat replied that they only have some terminals.
Which isn't good enough.
lichtkind shure
13:20 Maddingue joined
Juerd I can't risk key loggers for the kind of work that I do. 13:21
lichtkind i should also care about it since i have laptop now
Juerd Jaeger's is in the same street, even!
lichtkind but i booked
juerd which day you would drive back?
Juerd lichtkind: 23rd 13:22
MUST be in .nl the 24th
Maybe I'll visit FOSDEM the 25th
lichtkind i still looking somone to go by train or car together
Juerd "Ein ƶffentliches Parkhaus ist gleich nebenan und kostet ā‚¬13.50 pro Tag, wenn ihr bei uns wohnt."
Ouch.
lichtkind: From where?
lichtkind should i translate?
Juerd No, I can read German, thanks :)
lichtkind Juerd from munich to frankfurt 13:23
wolverian: are you satanist?
Juerd Mein Deutsch ist gleich wie dein Englisch. Ich verstehe es, aber wenn ich 's spreche oder type, geht es schief :) 13:24
Fortunately, almost everyone understands English :)
lichtkind tippe not type :) 13:25
Juerd q.e.d. 13:26
lichtkind: am Main, I hope?
lichtkind so you go back on friday do go in direction frankfurt?
of course
Juerd Going via Frankfurt a.M. is just a 20 minute detour for me 13:27
maps.google.nl/maps?f=d&hl=nl&a...6&om=1
lambdabot Title: Google Maps, tinyurl.com/2fv5jx
wolverian lichtkind, I find the name somewhat silly, and I don't feel like I need the religious (albeit atheist) aspects of it, so I don't think so. I do consider the philosophy sensible.
lichtkind juerd so if you have a seat free i would pay some euros 13:28
13:29 rindolf joined
Juerd lichtkind: Sounds good. Let's discus this tonight 13:30
lichtkind tonight? in 8 ours?
Wolverian the only satanist i know is one of most polite persons, i find also the whole magic system around it attractive but the movement in general sucks, despite i dont believe in counterreactions :) 13:33
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Juerd lichtkind: I don't know at what time I will be online, sorry 13:41
13:42 polettix joined 14:00 gaal_ joined
Coke_ sees all these people speaking english and wonders, what about the poor americans that want to practice their foreign languages? huh? what about those... seven people? 14:05
14:13 VanilleBert joined 14:18 weinig|bbl is now known as weinig
Limbic_Region Coke - where did that come from? 14:23
14:24 Endymion joined
Endymion hi 14:24
lichtkind hello endymion 14:25
14:25 bonesss joined
lichtkind "A Penis Is Just a Great Big Clitoris With a Piss Hole" was fĆ¼r ein trackname 14:26
ups
wrong channel :)
moritz lichtkind: lol ;)
lichtkind its a songname
its not from me :)
rgs poetry meets biology 14:27
Coke_ Limbic_Region: catching up in review. lots of non-native english speakers in #perl6 who seem to like to speak in english.
14:28 gaal joined
lichtkind hello gaal 14:28
moritz lichtkind: I do speak German ;) 14:29
lichtkind ja das sieht man am namen :)
was machst hier? und nicht in perlde ? :) 14:30
moritz wird da perl6 entwickelt?
lichtkind weniger :)
14:30 cjeris joined
moritz eben ;) 14:30
14:30 vel joined
lichtkind kommst du mach mĆ¼nchen? 14:33
moritz lichtkind: no, I'm currently in Edinburgh, Scotland (until June)
lichtkind: next year perhaps... is it every year?
lichtkind klar
but in different city, as you can see on perl.org 14:35
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moritz www.perl.org/advocacy/summerofcode/ seems to be fairly outdated ;) 14:38
lambdabot Title: Summer of Code - perl.org
integral is the 2007 SoC starting up already? 14:40
lichtkind dunno 14:41
moritz whats your bĆ¼rgerlicher name :)
integral it should still be "current" in that 2006 was the last SoC
moritz lichtkind: you can guess it ;) 14:43
lichtkind ok let me rearrange this question, is there any possibility i do already know you? 14:44
moritz lichtkind: it's very unlikely, unless you come from Erlangen (then it's just unlikely ;) 14:46
14:46 nipra joined
lichtkind erlangen.pm so you know reneeb? 14:46
moritz lichtkind: if you tell me his real name - perhaps 14:47
lichtkind: but I'm fairly new to perl and I don't know many people
14:48 anatolyv joined
lichtkind renee bƤcker, leader of erlangen .pm so far i know 14:48
moritz I've heard of him, but I don't think I ever met him 14:49
lichtkind one of the most active german folks, he now started first german perlmag
also my first user :) 14:50
14:50 vel joined
gaal hey, anyone know how to delete an RT ticket? I have spam in my queue... 14:55
[particle] change the queue to spam 14:56
from the 'basics' tab
gaal thanks!
[particle] you'll know it works if you get a message saying you can't view the ticket
(strange but true)
gaal hm rt.cpan.org doesn't have a queue called spam 14:57
14:57 vel joined
lichtkind moritz what you do with perl6? 14:57
[particle] gaal: sorry, dunno cpan rt as well as perl.org's :( 15:00
gaal [particle]: okay thanks anyway :)
moritz lichtkind: admiring its beauty, and writing a few test cases 15:01
lichtkind: and currently I'm writing a german perl6-howto for programmers (but not perl5-programmers)
15:01 polettix joined
lichtkind cool im writing nothing, just about perl6 15:01
im writing german perl6 tutorial 15:02
maybe we could join
do you know our wiki?
moritz which is "yours"?
lichtkind check de.perl.org
and click on wiki > wissensbasis > tutorials
moritz lichtkind: moritz.faui2k3.org/de/artikel/perl6-tutorial this is how far I'm now 15:03
lichtkind and yours ?
lambdabot Title: Perl6-Tutorial
moritz ups, I forgot to remove the ads from the template, embarresing ;) 15:04
lichtkind moritz you have different aproach
you make more like a learning perl6 i want to make more complete compendium 15:05
moritz yes, I see that
lichtkind with examples
moritz lichtkind: maybe it's good to have both
lichtkind yes i will link to yours
moritz I'll link to your one
;))
lichtkind the plan was also to learn from my first try und translate it slightly chenges to have an english tutorial 15:06
moritz lichtkind: I had no plan... somebody just asked if there was a perl6-tutorial for non-perl5-programmers, so I started one 15:13
lichtkind mine is mostly for perl5 folks
explaining more the diffs
explaining all 15:14
but more from a diff standpoint
take more attention to the diffs
rindolf There's also www.szabgab.com/perl6.html 15:16
lambdabot Title: Perl6
lichtkind rindolf already in my link section
wiki.perl-community.de/bin/view/Wis...ialAnhangE
VanilleBert "take more attention to the diffs" -> not good for me... i dont know perl5 :D 15:20
lichtkind hello vanille bert
you can learn from it from ground but i took much attention to show you pitfalls of transition 15:21
from these calrifications you can also clearly see what perl6 does and what not :) 15:22
moritz VanilleBert: that's what I don't like about the specs - partly they are barely readable if you don't know p6
s/p6/p5/
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Cafe_ hi all 16:44
is there any online POD reader tool wich I can give an URL?? 16:45
lichtkind hello cafe
dunno but i wanted to write an offline podreader
but its merely in my head today
wolverian lichtkind, what's wrong with perldoc? :) 16:46
(well, okay, many things.)
lichtkind we want to have tabs, better search and some other stuff 16:47
beside thats its a demo for an techology
moritz written in perl6? ;)
lichtkind for an supersecret perl.com article i hopefully finish some day
of couse not :)
Cafe_ perldoc is nice for text mode 16:48
but I wish something like CPAN's reader, but suplying an URL for it to read
lichtkind what ya mean? 16:49
wolverian pinfo is nice.. too bad I can't find a pod2info
(though perldoc perlamiga (!) mentions it) 16:50
lichtkind info is another format?
wolverian yeah. gnu apps traditionally are documented with it.
the default reader happens to suck, though. pinfo is nice.
avar wolverian: emacs is a better info reader than pinfo imo
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wolverian avar, probably. using it just for info reading feels a bit silly, though. 16:51
avar I don't use info(1) but I don't think it's all that bad 16:52
moritz avar: it is ;)
wolverian compared to pinfo, it is.
avar haha
pinfo emacs brings up the man page, how sucky 16:53
wolverian try installing emacs's info docs? :)
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avar I have emacs's info docs 16:53
are you expected to use the arrow keys and pgup/down to navigate in pinfo? 16:54
wolverian jk move between links
moritz very intuitive for vi users ;)
wolverian yup :)
and space is a pagedown, too
lichtkind moritz what was especially hard to understand? 17:01
svnbot6 r15264 | lwall++ | Transitioning to model where syntactic categories control subsequent parse.
r15264 | lwall++ | (Otherwise the grammar isn't really extensible...)
lichtkind yeah
17:02 andara left
moritz lichtkind: hm? 17:05
lichtkind weisst was ich mein?
moritz lichtkind: habs noch nicht durchgelesen, hatte einen termin...
lichtkind: hast du sinnvolle kommentare zu meinem zeugs?
(auƟer dass noch jede Menge fehlt ;)
lichtkind ne ich wollte nur wissen wo genau es fĆ¼r dich schwer war die perl6 syn zu verstehen 17:06
moritz ach die syn...
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moritz kann jetzt gerade keien genaue stelle sagen, aber es gibt halt stellen, an denen mit fachbegriffen um sich geschmissen wird, ohne dich bisher ganz anstƤndig p5 programmieren konnte 17:07
lichtkind oder was du halt meintest mit: moritz>VanilleBert: that's what I don't like about the specs - partly they are barely readable if you don't know p6 17:08
moritz lichtkind: naja, zum Teil sind die halt als diff zu p5 gechrieben, besonders bei dem rules 17:09
lichtkind ich schreib grad perl6 artikel fĆ¼r perlmag willst vorher mal lesen? 17:12
aber bitte nicht weitergeben....
wenns soweit ist :)
moritz lichtkind: aber sicher 17:13
lichtkind www.foo-magazin.de/
lambdabot Title: $foo - Perl-Magazin
lichtkind Ć¼brigens das da im logo ist mein editor 17:14
:)
moritz hm, vim? 17:15
lichtkind ich meinte nicht der editor den ich benutze, sondern den ich geschrieben hab 17:16
:)
in perl natĆ¼rlich
hab ansonst nicht viel mit der zeitschrift zu tun
moritz lichtkind: kannst mir den artikel dann auch gerne mit gpg verschlĆ¼sselt schicken (falls du bedenken hast ;), 0x9048D322 17:17
lichtkind wieso sollte ich?
habe die gpg benutzt
moritz lichtkind: paranoia? 17:18
lichtkind: das PDF der leseprobe sieht grauenhaft aus, irgendwie ist die schrift total verhunzt...
17:19 Cafe_ left
lichtkind habe nie gpg benutzt :) 17:19
ich konnts lesen aber es ista uch erste ausgabe
moritz wollts nur angemerkt haben ;) 17:20
lichtkind schreib ihm doch :) 17:21
board.perl-community.de/cgi-bin/iko...1059974551
lambdabot Title: Forum Nachricht, tinyurl.com/ytjdjn
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lichtkind shit hab schlechtes karma 17:31
dmq shit hab? 17:35
isnt that kindof taken for granted?
rgs s/hab/ich $&e/ ?
lichtkind no im mourning that i have bad slashdot karma
dmq oh i thought you were saying "shit has bad karma" :-) 17:36
lichtkind i got bad karma since my first post :)
haha
hab is short for ich habe
rgs cool, my german hasn't disappeared completely 17:37
lichtkind when i wanne talk about shits karma i would say shit hat ..
rgs you lived in germany?
rgs no.
lichtkind in school? 17:38
rgs just learned bits of german in school yes
rgs goes home now &
lichtkind machs gut :)
dmq gleich fals
my german spleleling isnt very good. 17:39
lichtkind gleichfalls :)
TimToady ich habe Deutsch ganz vergessen...
lichtkind ah tim is alive :) sehr gut :) 17:40
TimToaddy may i aske you some questions?
TimToady ich fĆ¼hle tod (is that right?)
moritz TimToady: you 17:41
sry
TimToady: you'd say "ich fĆ¼hle _mich_ tod" ;)
lichtkind TimToady ich fĆ¼hle mich tot
TimToady gotcha
lichtkind tod is the death
tot is dead
TimToady k
lichtkind: yes, as long as you don't call me tim. :) 17:42
lichtkind ai sir :)
so i ask you another time , (but that are easy questions :)) 17:43
TimToady you may ask now
feeling dead was mostly just a joke
lichtkind im mostly to serious to understand jokes :) 17:44
TimToady I'm sure I don't feel nearly as dead as Audrey does right now... :/ 17:45
lichtkind ok im writing currently a piece about perl6 and in chapter 1 about the main goal of perl and i wont to get a bit spiritual
audrey is by you?
TimToady no, half a world away
lichtkind its about the mathew quate the name perl is derived from 17:46
TimToady I would not say "derived from", merely one of the many associations
dmq idly wonders if p6 will use inversion lists for its charclasses, and if yes if they are already written yet (in C) and if yes, can i steal them? 17:47
moritz dmq: p6 and C?
lichtkind yeah but feel free like in heaven while be creative is the main goal of perl as i understand
TimToady p6 has no opinions about implementation 17:48
dmq im just on the prowl for an inversion list implementation, and was hoping you guys might have one. 17:49
TimToady it's certainly true that my particular theology says that good behavior must come from the inside of the person, not be imposed from without 17:50
and that certainly relates to allowing people to exercise free will
lichtkind yes also because vreativity without free will is no fun :) 17:51
creativity
TimToady I think God is lot more like audreyt++ than even audreyt++ realizes. :) 17:52
She's always saying "use your initiative"
lichtkind also has perl matured a lot last times sinse best practises and perl::Critic is around :) 17:53
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lichtkind sorry what you mean with initative? 17:53
you mean intuition?
TimToady enforcement of cultural norms has its place, but cannot substitute for the goodness that comes from within
lichtkind true 17:54
TimToady it means "figure it out yourself"
to initiate is to start something, so "initiative" is the quality of someone who is a self-starter 17:55
dmq leo says "die Initiative ergreifen"
lichtkind dmq thanks btu i understand 17:56
makes sense to me 17:57
TimToady anyway, my goal is not to tell people how they have to program, but rather to encourage people to *become* good programmers 17:58
lichtkind so lower the hurdles to all the features
without making it php like :)
dmq timtoady, p6 does sortof suggest that certain implementations will be better than others, since you have mandated char class set operations. so the implementation must be ameniable to that.
TimToady dmq: what implementation you want for character classes depends on what you're optimizing for 17:59
lichtkind TimToaday sounds a nit like wisdom through experience to me
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dmq handle unicode, facilitate set operations, not blow up in terms of storage on large sets. 18:00
TimToady yes, we attempt to specify the semantics, but there are various space vs time tradeoffs the implementation can make depending on whether your device has 500 kilobytes or 500 terabytes of memory 18:02
dmq it seems to me like inversions lists have the upper hand in almost every respect except multibyte equivelencies.
there dont seem to be too many reasonable options. even if you do have 500 terabytes of memory. :-) 18:03
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dmq if you know of any besides bitvectors, tries and inversion lists please let me know. 18:04
TimToady well, with that kind of memory you don't care about a small table with only 0x10ffff entries. :)
dmq yeah. :-)
TimToady but your telephone is likely to want a slow but small algorithm 18:05
dmq yeah, worst case invlist is 0x10FFFF entries as well. hrmm. 18:06
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dmq although anybody that manages to write a charclass that creates such a list deserves what happens to them :-) 18:07
TimToady for your phone, the most compact representation is probably the original character class specified by the user, and you just interpret that.
dmq not a bad point 18:08
TimToady course when you start pulling in Unicode properties, you start getting long lists of characters. 18:10
but presumably those would be stored in one place and accessed indirectly 18:11
and if phones start getting to have too much memory, I'm sure we'll have smaller embedded devices that need compact storage
how much memory do your nanobots have, for instance? 18:12
lichtkind TimToady thanks for answers i want hype chamelessly perl6 but not bullshiting around, currently i think hard if theres another question on my mind
TimToady leaving theology out of it, religions work best if they're scalable 18:13
they have to be accessible to a child, and still interest the philosophers
[particle] i think that's why frisbeetarianism never took off 18:14
lichtkind so all can contribute something interesting :)
and some child can be clearer in mind than philosopher :)
TimToady and one never gets to a spot where you say "I've arrived" and don't need to improve any more.
lichtkind ah now i get it perl6 is the sucessor of WoW 18:15
TimToady but humans love their false minima
World of Warcraft?
lichtkind yes
TimToady don't know anything about it... 18:16
lichtkind some of my friends are unhealthy addicted and sĆ¼pend nearly all their life in this world
its mass epidemia
your never finished
every 2 weeks content updates
gigantic worlds 18:17
trees of characters and possibilities
but its based on getting points for killing people
it ment to be joke that perl6 is programmers WoW 18:18
TimToady it is a mystery of human existence that forward motion depends on having good balance.
we tend to think of balance as a static 18:19
thing
lichtkind yes balance is one of the most important things in WoW
the founded their own term: inba
[particle] like riding a bicycle
TimToady but all progress depends on lack of balance.
lichtkind stands for inbalanced
they say it all the time if they dont like something 18:20
TimToady and the most unbalanced often make the most progress before they crash
"all progress depends on the unreasonable man"
lichtkind i know that one :)
TimToady oh, you know me, huh? :)
lichtkind WoW is very interesting for linguist because they created their own language
no that quote from shaw :) 18:21
allbery_b suspects we're *all* unreasonable here :)
TimToady I'll bet it's biased towards Indo-European...
nothingmuch i'm perfectly reasonable
it's just that many other people are unreasonable about accepting that fact
TimToady well, I try to be unreasonable as often as possible, but I'm not very good at it. 18:22
allbery_b @remember TimToady well, I try to be unreasonable as often as possible, but I'm not very good at it. 18:23
lambdabot Done.
lichtkind but to have fun is sometimes enough :)
ah one i forgot
i mean on theological point 18:24
because were from god we are creative, creativity as a birthright, and perl just dont try to get into my way
i think thats + the previous talked about are the points i want to make 18:26
TimToady within reason. God still classifies some behaviors as syntax errors.
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lichtkind you mean like murder and stealing? 18:27
TimToady yes, those definitely throw an exception.
and erroneous programs have bad consequences even if the compiler doesn't tell you beforehand. 18:28
"there is a way that seems right to a man, but the end of it is death" is just a restatement (or a prestatement) of the Halting Problem. 18:31
lichtkind i dont understand 18:32
TimToady so another way to state the free will thing is that we are intended to be interesting programs, not programs that can be "proven correct".
"there is a way that seems right to a man, but the end of it is death" is a verse from the Bible. 18:33
lichtkind i seldom read much bible, and only in german :)
im no christian in any way, only share some insights :) 18:34
TimToady I don't expect anyone to be a Christian who isn't yet. :) 18:35
lichtkind shii i missed that one too. please explain
they even failed to make me a communist
TimToady a lot of Christians fall into the trap of expecting everyone to behave like Christians. I don't expect that. 18:36
lichtkind thats wise :) 18:37
TimToady on the other hand, I also try not to fall into the trap of thinking that people won't change their mind on the subject. 18:38
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lichtkind :) 18:38
i was lot flogged in wikipedia for standing to my esoteric beliefs thatswhy i sometime make this second mistake 18:39
i dont think god classifies, but we cant make perl6 complex as the universe itself :) 18:42
TimToady it's part of The Plan. :)
lichtkind since it will always be an subset
TimToady thats enough.
allbery_b no, but p6 can be as complex as the human mind, just by being used and extended by human minds 18:43
TimToady hmm, I guess I don't even aspire to that height. I think humanity will always be a little more complex than Perl. :) 18:44
lichtkind its not too far www.guardian.co.uk/science/story/0,...17,00.html
lambdabot Title: The brain scan that can read people's intentions | Science | Guardian Unlimited
lichtkind yes its i nice thougth to run perl in the brain but i dont think thats the goal 18:45
one of the reasons why programming is fun it is a way to communicate with a machine 18:46
TimToady I should just get my brain scanned for intentions and then I wouldn't have to write all the specs...
dmq you are planning to solve intentionality in perl6?
yikes. ;-)
TimToady if I do, it'll be unintentional...
lichtkind haha 18:47
dmq timtoady++
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lichtkind yo thanks for the input 18:49
TimToady bitte zehr
lichtkind bitte sehr
TimToady gah
TimToady will go back to studying German after mastering Japanese... :) 18:50
moritz TimToady: we'll remind you ;)
lichtkind but if you spell it czech nobody will notice :)
TimToady 恝恆恧恗悇恆怂
wolverian learning a language without having an application for it is hard. applies to human and computer languages. 18:51
TimToady biab &
Khisanth wolverian: yes! :) 18:52
wolverian it really applies to libraries as well. 18:53
you can make
motivation
(damn you, fingers)
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lichtkind TimToady i ment that if a czech would pronounce zehr it would sound like correct german sehr :) 19:06
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wolverian hrm, SVK2 depends on VCP, which doesn't exist.. 19:16
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svnbot6 r15265 | lwall++ | Declarators are now predictive. 19:56
lichtkind Juerd are you there ? 20:04
20:04 amnesiac joined
Juerd lichtkind: Yes 20:15
lichtkind: But unfortunately I have no time :( Sorry. 20:16
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lichtkind Juerd doesnt matter we its bit time up to munich 21:08
shamu bind 21:17
moritz ?eval my @l = lazy (1 .. Inf) 21:31
evalbot_r15265 (no output)
moritz ?eval my @l = lazy (1 .. Inf); @l[2]
evalbot_r15265 (no output) 21:32
moritz :(
Limbic_Region ?eval my @inf = 1 ...; @inf[2];
evalbot_r15265 pugs: out of memory (requested 1048576 bytes)
Limbic_Region hrm
I thought it was lazy by default
moritz perhaps it's not implemented yet 21:33
?eval (1 .. Inf)[2] 21:34
evalbot_r15265 \3.0
Limbic_Region moritz - see t/data_types/lazy_lists.t
Limbic_Region doesn't have time ATM but presumably that's correct syntax 21:35
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lichtkind is here a /. moderator? 22:13
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lichtkind nicght 22:39
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