pugscode.org/ | nopaste: sial.org/pbot/perl6 | ?eval [~] <m oo se> | We do Haskell, too | > reverse . show $ foldl1 (*) [1..4] | irclog: irc.pugscode.org/
Set by diakopter on 11 July 2007.
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pugs_svnbot r17148 | perlDreamer++ | Test for when the list is explicit, and not a variable. This 00:35
r17148 | perlDreamer++ | fails on parrot currently.
diff: dev.pugscode.org/changeset/17148
lambdabot Title: Changeset 17148 - Pugs - Trac
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thoughtpolice hm. seems to have been pretty quiet lately. then again i've not been around too much I suppose :x 03:47
diakopter thoughtpolice: remind me again, you're good with haskell? 03:49
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thoughtpolice diakopter: i wouldn't exactly call myself 'advanced' but i feel i can manage ;) 04:14
diakopter thoughtpolice: neat. I'd like to schedule a bit of an irc meeting among the haskellites 04:19
sometime in the next week or two... 04:20
thoughtpolice diakopter: cool. 04:24
diakopter: if you can alert me ahead of time; my schedule's been a little crazy lately so a forecast would be appreciated :)
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diakopter yes, there's no hurry (within reason). I'd like to try to find a time when everyone interested can be involved in realtime. 04:26
any tips on scheduling logistics for globally synchronized meetings? :) 04:27
Tene thoughtpolice: I bet it would help diakopter if you gave him some idea of when you might be available.
diakopter Tene: there you go :) 04:29
Tene diakopter: date -d "Sun Jul 10 20:00:00 UTC 2007"
thoughtpolice in general if you just tell me i can make myself available then
but with no warning i have no guarantees.
Tene Give datetime with an explicit timezone (preferrable UTC) and use date -d to display it in local time.
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Tene (the datetime I gave as an example was, of course, just an example) 04:32
diakopter Tene: oh, you mean you can't be available two weeks ago? 04:38
oh, but the 10th wasn't a Sunday...
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lumi diakopter: What's the meeting for 05:15
s/$/?/ 05:17
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diakopter lumi: I'm interested in asking some questions of the former-lambdacamels as well as the haskellites who came along recently... about Perl 6 on Haskell. I have some ideas about different backend/frontend ideas that I'd like to run by folks who know functional programming (and Haskell and GHC in particular)... 05:56
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diakopter er, different backend/frontend models, I mean. 05:57
ideas about ideas? ;) 05:58
diakopter winks at himself, he's so sleepy.
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torz hey all. 07:11
masak torz: hello 07:12
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polettix masak: hello :) yesterday I lost connection but I didn't realise, did you ask me something? I have no log here 07:25
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polettix rotfl 07:25
masak: hello :) yesterday I lost connection but I didn't realise, did you ask me something? I have no log here
masak polettix: um, yes, but it was a fairly impertinent question. I asked if you could help me debugging something
solely on the grounds that you seemed to have time on your hands and that it's more fun and speedier to debug with someone 07:26
polettix I have some time now, but I fear you'll have to wait until I get my pugs refreshed
masak no problem 07:27
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masak when you're ready, I'd like to turn your attention towards ext/DateTime/t/basic.t 07:28
polettix ok, I'll give you a call
masak great 07:29
polettix uhm, I was a bit behind... and now it seems that I have to upgrade ghc as well 07:35
masak polettix: ah, yes. the 6.6.1 thing
take your time. I'm sitting here studying Latin in the meantime 07:36
polettix Latin? amazing
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masak polettix: Latin is an eye-opener. highly recommended if you like languages 07:36
polettix I Vitelli dei romani sono belli
masak that sounded very italian to me. was it? 07:37
polettix this sentence has a meaning in Latin, and a completely different meaning in Italian :)
masak polettix: oh. what meanings?
polettix In Latin it's: "Go, Vitellio, (now that you can hear) the sound of war of romans gods" 07:38
more or less
masak ok -- I guess that must be medieval latin
never seen imperative "I" for "go" before 07:39
polettix in Italian it's pretty lame: "romans' calves are handsome"
eo is ivi itum ire
masak polettix: :)
polettix don't really remember the imperative form, anyway :)
masak so "vitelli" is "calves" in italian? 07:40
polettix only if "calves" is the plural of "calf" :)
masak :)
masak is fairly certain it is 07:41
yup, it is
polettix I guessed right, I hope
masak interesting sentence
masak is reading Augustus' Momentum Ancyranum
polettix ok, I'm compiling pugs at last 07:43
meanwhile, I think I can go and take a look at the test you pointed me to 07:44
please take into account that I know very little of Perl 6 07:45
masak polettix: no problem. that's the beauty of the tests, they tell you if things are working or not 07:46
I'm hardly an expert either, I'm just fervently eager to help triaging
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polettix just for curiosity, why the eval-s in test #2? 07:49
masak hold on 07:50
could be a fossil from where that syntax broke pugs in some way
I don't see why it would be needed for #2 and not for #3 and #4 07:51
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polettix yep 07:51
masak would like a (jump-to-test number) function in emacs
anyway 07:52
polettix now... the second block of tests and the third one are a repetition?
ah no
new() in the first, now() in the second
masak yep
it's the now() that screws up, I think
have you run the tests? 07:53
or are you still compiling?
polettix not yet, I'm looking at the smoke results
m19s28.vlinux.de/iblech/stuff/pugs-...20cfe.html
lambdabot Title: TAP Matrix - Thu Jul 26 23:16:16 2007 GMT, tinyurl.com/yq9tbq
masak polettix: that's fine 07:54
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masak now you see why I was attracted to this test file 07:55
it's the first one with red entries
polettix ahahah starting from the beginning 07:56
masak yes
there are 1264 tests failing :) 07:57
many of the probably for the same reason, though
polettix what does $!year = $time.year mean?!? 07:58
masak polettix: I must punt to S12 on that one 07:59
polettix ok
masak but I asked myself that as well
ok, so what can we say generally? 08:00
the Date objects are created 08:01
polettix but I still don't get it fully
masak which accounts for the green boxes in between the red ones
polettix I mean, the declaration is has Int $.year;
masak yes
polettix so it does not seem to be a private variable
masak was the ! for private variables? 08:02
polettix Private attributes use an exclamation to indicate that no public accessor is generated.
has $!brain;
masak ok
polettix compilation complete 08:03
masak I tried replacing the '!'s with '.'s in my Date.pm but that didn't help much
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polettix if you can help me a tiny bit I'll be operative in a snap 08:04
masak sure
if I can
polettix how can I quickly run the tests for Date?
masak ah
I do this
polettix ensuring that I use the recently compiled pugs, of course
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masak ./pugs -Iblib6/lib ext/DateTime/t/basic.t 08:05
polettix ok, it run 08:06
masak (actually I have made an alias pugs='./pugs -Iblib6/lib')
cool
polettix the test output does not show the difference between the expected and the got values, this is annoying 08:07
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masak polettix: I noticed that too 08:07
maybe I should start by fixing that :) 08:08
should be Test.pm
polettix yep. It seems that it thinks we're in 2000 instead of 2007
masak polettix: it does?
polettix I added a couple of say()s
masak I think I got undef as an actual value
ah 08:09
now for the $1000 question: why?
polettix 2000/1/1 to be exact
which BUILD method/methods is/are triggered?
masak polettix: that looks like zero fields 08:10
polettix: not sure that any are. you could check that too
polettix I'm trying to add some say()s to the lib too
masak good. 08:11
meanwhile, I'm in Test.pm
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masak seems report_failure is using &?CALLER::CALLER::ROUTINE.name to determine whether it should print the expected value 08:13
polettix the Int|Num BUILD() is called, instead of the bare one 08:14
masak polettix: not both? I thought the latter called the former
polettix yep, I thought this as well
masak hm. 08:15
still, the instance variables should be initiated
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masak aha! 08:19
&?CALLER::CALLER::ROUTINE.name isn't "&Test::is" anymore, but "&is"
changing Test.pm to reflect this 08:20
that worked :)
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polettix I'm stuck 08:24
Int|Num BUILD() with epoch ''
the Int|Num version of BUILD() is called 08:25
but $epoch is empty
masak polettix: does it matter?
polettix: or rather, would you expect it to be empty?
polettix I expected that another method would be called 08:26
that is, the one with the empty parameter list
masak yes
but doesn't that one just delegate to the one with $epoch? 08:27
polettix so there is a quick hack to make the whole thing work, but we should probably investigate why it does not call the expected method 08:28
masak polettix: yes
definitely
I looked a bit at the tests for BUILD methods
to see if there were corresponding failing tests for what we see 08:29
didn't find much
but maybe you will fare better if you look
aha again: according to the tests (t/magicals/subname.t) the Test.pm as it stands is actually correct, and &?CALLER::CALLER::ROUTINE.name is wrongly implemented 08:32
seems like names should always be fully qualified 08:33
polettix wow, there's a real mess in calling those BUILD methods 08:35
the call inside now() actually triggers the year/month/day version
masak um
sounds uncalled for 08:36
if you see an easy way of cleaning up the call chain while passing the tests, don't hesitate
masak is lost in Eval.hs now 08:39
polettix I have to go to a presentation now, but I'll think about it and return in the afternoon 08:40
masak polettix: excellent
polettix thank you for giving me yet another time drain :D
masak polettix: np
thanks for the help so far
it was fun
:)
polettix yep, and it was useful too: you corrected Test.pm at last!
masak polettix: actually, no 08:41
Test.pm is correct
I'm looking at where pugs is going wrong now
(I have a simple fix, but I don't want to apply it since it will break as soon as Pugs unbreaks -- better to fix Pugs)
but Haskell... still confuses me 08:42
calling all competent Haskell people -- could someone lend a teeny, tiny hand? :/
actually, it's not as much unfamiliarity with Haskell that is the bottleneck in this case, as unfamiliarity with the structure of the Pugs source tree 08:43
spinclad (i vitelli...) 'Go, Vitellius, because of (hearing) the sound of the roman god of war' (one roman god) 08:44
masak I need to find where &?CALLER::CALLER::ROUTINE.name is evaluated, and make it a qualified name (such as "&Test::is") instead of a local name (such as "&is")
spinclad yes, an interesting sentence
masak spinclad: is it "because of" because "sono" is ablative? 08:45
spinclad that's how i read it
masak makes sense
spinclad: you don't happen to be intimately familiar with the Pugs source, do you? 08:46
spinclad 'from the sound', as it were
polettix spinclad: absolutely, one god! See, "dei" in italian is also "gods", it was easy to get tricked :)
masak spinclad: something like that
spinclad not intimately by a long shot
masak spinclad: but maybe enough for the above little excursion?
I need to find where .name is evaluated for ROUTINEs 08:47
any idea where to start?
spinclad i can look, without promises
masak :) 08:48
polettix ttfn, byez
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masak anyone know how to invite lambdabot to a freenode channel? 08:50
@tell masak something 08:51
spinclad you can tell yourself!
:)
masak :D
spinclad: substituting for lambdabot... now there's an unenviable task 08:52
spinclad i'd probably forget the message, or be asleep, or such 08:53
masak :) 08:54
actually, the homepage of lambdabot is down, not sure if that's related 08:55
masak asks on #haskell 08:56
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masak turns out lambdabot is down due to power shutdowns until sunday 09:00
spinclad you'll _have_ to tell yourself, then 09:01
masak ok
masak: something 09:02
masak: what?
masak: nvm
masak: ok... :/
spinclad masak: stop mumbling!
masak :)
spinclad ext/Test/lib/Test.pm?
masak spinclad: well, sort of
it relies on the results of ROUTINE.name being qualified 09:03
spinclad sub report_failure ...
masak as in "&Test:is"
spinclad: yes
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masak right now they are only local 09:03
as in "&is"
see also t/magicals/subnames.t
which hints at the same thing 09:04
spinclad right 09:05
masak where to turn in src/ to rectify? 09:06
spinclad 'ack -l ROUTINE src' gives six hits: AST/CapInternals.hs, Prim.hs, Monads.hs, Eval.hs, Val.hs, Parser.hs 09:10
masak yes. already tried that 09:11
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masak even looked a bit inside Eval.hs, which seemed a likely candidate 09:11
that only yielded a heightened respect for Haskell programmers
masak would like to start hacking Pugs, but the learning curve is steep 09:12
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masak spinclad: ok, let's reason this out 09:20
I don't know what AST/CapInternals.hs, but it sounds like it has something to do with Captures, which is probably not what I want
Prim.hs actually also sounds like a likely candidate, assuming it actually handles primitive things and ROUTINE is such a thing 09:21
by the same token, it could be in Val.hs
Eval.hs felt like a likely candidate because it should handle evaluation of things 09:22
Parser.hs feels like too early a stage
I don't know where Monads.hs gets into it
masak checks Prim.hs and Val.hs 09:23
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spinclad i'm looking at 'data Var = ... VarDynamic { v_name, v_packageName }', defined in AST/CapInternals, used in ... Eval and Parser that i see 09:32
(Val's is a comment)
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spinclad (Prim is for the prelude, maybe) 09:33
masak spinclad: ok
spinclad suspicious of Pa4rser.hs:2100 09:34
masak I've found at Var.hs:88 the place where CALLER is returned
ok, heading there
spinclad s/4//
masak spinclad: yep, that's it 09:35
now to figure out how to get the package in there
spinclad v_packageName should already be in the Var
masak why? 09:36
I mean, "hm?" 09:38
spinclad hm... this is converting a $.foo to a method &foo call... i don't think this is it 09:39
masak dang
so close
is it reasonable to think that v_name would be involved in the code we are looking for, though?
spinclad it's a guess... 09:40
masak spinclad: it's in most .hs files, it seems :)
I'll have a look in Val/Code.hs, that sounds like a likely name
spinclad thinking that our problem is lack of reporting v_packageName when it should 09:41
masak spinclad: exactly 09:42
it returns v_name instead of v_packageName ++ "::" ++ v_name (not sure if that's correct Haskell syntax)
spinclad i'd like to track down how '.name' is defined; if that's just pulling out v_name, we would never hear a package name 09:43
masak spinclad: sounds like a plan
that's why I homed in on Val/Code.hs, but right now that does not seem to be it
there are also vars called v_package and v_longname which might be of interest 09:45
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spinclad the var should constructed by the lexer - parser chain ... 10:00
masak another Maybe Clue: &?ROUTINE returns a value of type Sub, and this word exists in only a few .hs files 10:01
Sub, in turn seems closely related to VCode 10:02
...which is basically everywhere :/ 10:03
& # lunch 10:10
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spinclad &?ROUTINE is MScalarRoutine, AST/CapInternals/Instances.hs ... 10:10
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spinclad but that seems to be backend, emitting side stuff 10:11
s:7th/ /-/ 10:13
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spinclad now thinks '.name' is Prim.hs:625: op1 "Code::name" 10:47
meppl gugu 10:48
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spinclad gugu tuyutu, meppl 10:48
meppl hello spinclad
:-P
spinclad good morning meppl 10:49
'.name' is op1CodeName in Prim/Code.hs:23 10:51
which packages up subName, which is everywhere... 10:53
AST/Internals.hs:1039: , subName :: !ByteString 10:55
a field in VCode 11:01
set in many places
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masak meppl: gugu 11:13
spinclad: sounds good. cheching Prim.hs:625 11:14
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masak spinclad: wonder if anything else will break if I just redefine op1CodeName to return subPackage::subName instead of just subName 11:18
it really depends on what calls op1CodeName 11:19
spinclad Parser.hs:314 ruleSubDeclaration: ...
masak what about it? 11:20
spinclad 348: nameQualified ... | otherwise = name
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spinclad 366: builds the VCode 11:20
351: | otherwise = name looks like the place to change to (something pkg) ++ "::" ++ name 11:22
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masak I'll give it a shot 11:23
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spinclad or your change to op1CodeName might be the thing to do 11:27
masak yes 11:28
I seem to have broken things now
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spinclad doesn't grok 'cast' yet 11:31
masak struggles against GHC's typechecker 11:32
how do I create a ByteString from [Char]?
spinclad sorry, haven't gone there yet. 11:34
masak is really close now
spinclad not qualified for brain surgery. YMMV. objects in mirror are closing fast. 11:35
masak :) 11:36
we're in this together
spinclad but once it typechecks, that's already proof of some kind of correctness
masak there's got to be a way!
if audreyt++ can do it...
spinclad indeed. but i'm still looking at the code and its design through a narrow window 11:38
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masak spinclad: me too 11:40
spinclad running design inference on the code; dual to code generation 11:41
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spinclad there should be a haskell module Data::ByteString already available 11:46
or some such name
masak spinclad: yes, sure. the question is how to "cast" from String 11:47
all I get so far is that both are compatible with List 11:48
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masak but I haven't found any single function to convert 11:48
the situation is further complicated by dons's site (with the API and all the explanations) being down for maintenance. relying on Google cache 11:49
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spinclad pack? (from the name) 11:50
masak spinclad: yes, just found it :) 11:51
masak tries
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masak ah! cast does Whatever -> ByteString 11:55
spinclad does Whatever -> ThisType, maybe 11:56
masak I was adding my code before this conversion, instead of after 11:57
now it seems to be working much better :)
spinclad UTF8.hs has pack etc 11:58
masak no need, I think
the whole thing compiles
masak tests 11:59
spinclad sees (cast :: Type1 -> Type2) various places
masak ...almost
I now get Main::&foo instead of &Main::foo
this is a great part victory, however
I suppose deconstructing subName is no problem 12:00
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masak tail should do it 12:00
masak attempts this
I realize I'm probably not writing the best solution here, and likely implementing the fix on the wrong level, etc etc 12:01
but frankly, I don't care
this is fun!
spinclad (growing new lambdacamels)++ 12:02
masak I don't know about that 12:03
I still have no innate sense of the difference between `a $ b` and `a (b)`
I basically have to permute between them until I get it right 12:04
spinclad no? it's a start. once you've made one patch you can never go back
wolverian just write foo . bar $ baz and you're fine :)
rindolf wolverian: what does the "." do in Haskell/ 12:05
?
masak wolverian: oh yeah, I forgot `a . b`, I don't grok that either
wolverian rindolf, composes functions.
@type (.)
oh, lambdabot is sleeping
masak yes
for the weekend
spinclad (a -> b) -> (b -> c) -> (a -> c) 12:06
wolverian masak, it takes the lhs, which must be a function that is missing one parameter whose type is that which the rhs returns, and composes the rhs and lhs together.
that's the rough explanation. :)
"a function" should be replaced with "a section", I think.
masak spinclad: still substituting for lambdabot, eh? :)
spinclad yup 12:07
masak wolverian: I'll have to think about that
wolverian e.g. map (foo bar) . filter (baz quux) $ list
masak spinclad: I now pass tests #1 and #2 in subname.t
spinclad good show
wolverian (since the 'foo bar' is not composed, it means that bar is an argument to foo)
masak tests #3 and #4 fail in new interesting ways that make me realise that my fix is naive
wolverian masak++
masak :) 12:08
however,
spinclad (bug in spincladbot: the two args to (.) should be switched, i think: (b -> c) -> (a -> b) -> (a -> c) ) 12:11
wolverian spinclad, yes. 12:12
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spinclad -> bed & # sunrise 12:23
masak spinclad++ # hacker rythm 12:24
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pugs_svnbot r17149 | masak++ | [Code.hs] 12:51
r17149 | masak++ | * made subName qualified so that Test.pm reports expected values as intended
r17149 | masak++ | before
diff: dev.pugscode.org/changeset/17149
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masak oops, confuzzled commit comment 12:55
masak-- # thought I removed that last line
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masak @tell spinclad ... 13:27
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masak dang 13:27
spinclad: changing the other place, in Parser.hs, seems to break a lot of things
so I won't do that 13:28
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spinclad masak: good -- since VCode has both subPackage and subName and as long as they stay cleanly split, then op1CodeName is clearly the righter place 13:49
masak yay 13:50
now Test.pm works again
try running ext/DateTime/t/basic.t
it now shows expected values again
so, back to the original issue: why do some tests in ext/DateTime/t/basic.t fail? 13:51
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spinclad sorry, been talking in my sleep again 13:52
will look 'tomorrow'
agentzh yay, auto-smoke works again :) 13:53
perlcabal.org/smoke.html
oh, lambdabot has gone off... 13:54
spinclad & # really
agentzh spinclad: sleep well
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agentzh @seen audreyt 14:02
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rhr masak: I looked at the ext/DateTime/t/basic.t failures once. The problem is in pugs' MMD impl, it picks the wrong BUILD when called with no args iirc. 14:49
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polettix rhr: it seems to pick the wrong BUILD when called with args as well, at least inside one method 14:53
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pasteling "polettix" at 81.174.12.28 pasted "some weirdness about new() and BUILD()" (82 lines, 1.5K) at sial.org/pbot/26477 15:10
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polettix this is what I mean. Sorry for not putting it as a test, but I don't know how to redirect output to variable quickly. 15:11
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rhr yeah, that's pretty strange. MMD with named args is just broken, I think. Has the MMD spec been completed yet? 15:27
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diakopter rhr: it's my understanding that Larry is pretty happy with the MMD spec, until further implementation uncovers more cases. 16:07
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solar345 hi all ! 17:49
diakopter solar345: hi 17:50
rindolf Hi solar345, diakopter 17:54
Hi all.
solar345 hi diakopter 17:57
hi rindolf
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rindolf What does [+] [6,7,8] supposed to do in p6? 19:27
PerlJam rindolf: 21
(6 + 7 + 8)
rindolf PerlJam:
pugs> [+] [6,7,8] 19:28
(6, 7, 8)
pugs> [+] (6,7,8)
21
pugs on feather
PerlJam oh. I didn't even notice the brackets Hmm.
rindolf Where is the pugs bug tracker? 19:29
pugs> [5,6,[10,20]] 19:31
(5, 6, (10, 20))
What sort of notation is this?
With the parentheses?
Instead of the sq brackets?
TimToady should return 3 19:34
or maybe it should just return the single arg 19:35
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TimToady looks like that's kinda what pugs does 19:35
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PerlJam TimToady: and what would [+] [1,2,3], [4,5,6] give us ? 19:36
TimToady same as [1,2,3] + [4,5,6]
that is, 6
rindolf perlbot: pugs bugs 19:37
PerlJam TimToady: then I think [+] [6,7,8] should return 3
TimToady depending on whether the numeric context is implied for a single arg
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TimToady for an operator x that has an identity value returned by [x]() we could define [x]($value) to be [x]() x $value perhaps 19:40
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rindolf Hi TimToady 19:42
TimToady howdy
rindolf I want to try and fix a pugs bug. 19:43
Where should I go to look for one?
I mean a list.
TimToady: what's up?
TimToady m19s28.vlinux.de/iblech/stuff/pugs-...20cfe.html 19:44
just wrapping up OSCON here 19:46
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rindolf TimToady: nice. 19:53
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PerlJam TimToady: Did you give a SotO? 20:09
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TimToady something like that 20:16
PerlJam I hope it went well. 20:18
dduncan as do I 20:19
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TimToady OSCON over, massive decommute & 20:34
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meppl good night 21:18
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