pugscode.org/ | nopaste: sial.org/pbot/perl6 | ?eval [~] <m oo se> | We do Haskell, too | > reverse . show $ foldl1 (*) [1..4] | irclog: irc.pugscode.org/
Set by diakopter on 11 July 2007.
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nowhere_man there has been no list summaries for a long time, where to get any news about Perl 6? 00:17
like the current roadmap or how far it is from a release 00:18
pugs_svnbot r17236 | lwall++ | typo in comment 00:21
diff: dev.pugscode.org/changeset/17236
lambdabot Title: Changeset 17236 - Pugs - Trac
TimToady nobody volunteered to summarize, so mostly you just have to follow along on the mailing lists and irc if you're interested 00:22
the weekly phonecall minutes still show up, posted by chromatic, but we don't discuss everything there 00:23
nowhere_man so how far is Perl 6 from a release?
TimToady depends on how much help we get 00:25
which is impossible to predict
justatheory_ iow, christmas
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TimToady if a billionaire hired about 300 of us to work on it fulltime, we could probably have it done by this Christmas 00:27
in the absence of that, we're all just working on it in our copious free time
justatheory for some other christmas. ;-P
justatheory suspects that there might be a mythical man month problem in TimToady's "300 of us" estimate. 00:28
TimToady justatheary also suspects that the project management has been promoted to the level of its incompetence. :)
s:2nd/a/o/ 00:29
justatheory heh
TimToady fortunately, I'm just good enough at management to delegate *all* the management to others. :) 00:30
bbl & 00:41
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DarkWolf84 the worst question for every project :) 00:49
And the simple answer is "when it is done" 00:50
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araujo well, i liked the answer of the billionaire too 01:04
:-) 01:05
DarkWolf84 if know one send him to me 01:07
:)
I like the christmas joke 01:08
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diakopter nowhere_man: would you like to help out? 01:41
nowhere_man I kind of dropped out of Perl after having used it quite much, but most of what I read about Perl 6 makes me want to try it 01:49
my various attempts with Pugs weren't that successful
I managed to get errors with tutorial code, I remember 01:50
not once only
diakopter nowhere_man: yes; pugs was a [very quickly] moving target for the documentation and tutorials for quite a while. Probably not many of them have caught up, even after its cryogenic for the past 1/2 year. 01:51
nowhere_man is there any tutorial/implementation couple I could try by now? 02:04
diakopter hm 02:08
www.pair.com/~comdog/Talks/Learning...PW2007.pdf 02:11
that's quite recent 02:12
should work with today-pugs.
do you have a recent pugs built?
nowhere_man: run.pugscode.org/ seems to be up and running (you can use it for much of those slides) 02:14
lambdabot Title: Run Perl 6 Now -- in your browser!
diakopter heh; that should be *via* your browser, since *in* your browser is actually feasible... 02:15
?eval "hi" 02:18
hrm
pugsbot_r17185 "hi"
diakopter oh; merely slow 02:19
nowhere_man: you can also send private messages to pugsbot_r17185: e.g. ?eval "hi" and so forth.
nowhere_man thanks, i'll try 02:20
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nowhere_man how do junctions work? is there any design document on their implementation? 05:04
is it the compiler that "flattens" any expression with a junction? e.g. make « $num == any <1 2> » be « $num == 1 or $num == 2 » 05:06
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diakopter nowhere_man: here's a description of the operators: perlsix.org/syn/S03.html#Junctive_operators 05:51
lambdabot Title: S03 05:52
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TimToady nowhere_man: no, it's a run-time determination based on the fact that the Junction type doesn't match most other types, so it ends up "autothreading"; in addition to S03 see also S09:932 05:52
basically, it'll never dispatch a Junction to a routine that isn't expecting one. 05:53
that includes things like ==
diakopter perlsix.org/syn/S09.html#line_932
lambdabot Title: S09
TimToady eventually it all bubbles up to a boolean context and then the logic happens 05:54
diakopter eyes the mention of Parrot above line 932
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TimToady not that most of the rest of S09 is implemented yet... 05:56
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pugs_svnbot r17237 | lwall++ | [STD] Missing syms on some regex metachars 06:05
diff: dev.pugscode.org/changeset/17237
lambdabot Title: Changeset 17237 - Pugs - Trac
justatheory score lwall 06:08
diakopter I'm wondering whether any but the most trivial of Perl6 programs (as compiled-to-disk) won't need to embed (or link to) a perl6 implementation
karma lwall 06:09
@karma lwall
lambdabot lwall has a karma of 10
justatheory I guess it doesn't pick up svnbot's ++s
thoughtpolice diakopter: you mean like a runtime?
diakopter lwall++
@karma lwall
lambdabot lwall has a karma of 11
thoughtpolice iirc lambdabot needs the karma addition to occur on the first word 06:10
kane__ lets try lwall++
@karma lwall
lambdabot lwall has a karma of 12
thoughtpolice hm.
diakopter # non-first lwall++
@karma lwall
lambdabot lwall has a karma of 13
kane__ good bot
justatheory r17237 | lwall++ | [STD] Missing syms on some regex metachars
@karma lwall
lambdabot lwall has a karma of 14
diakopter I think when lambdabot is restarted, it loses its memory
thoughtpolice diakopter: no it keeps that sort of info with it 06:11
inside a State/ directory
same with stuff like @where and whatnot
kane__ lwall therefor is just a lazy committer, or collects a lot of -- for other behaviour
only explenation :)
diakopter and usually it doesn't have to be restarted, since its hs runtime system can swap out any plugins without restarting. it only restarted b/c of a power failure, according to #haskell
oh
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diakopter thoughtpolice: to answer your question, yeah 06:13
(not that my wondering was necessarily implying/assuming that is a bad thing)
thoughtpolice hm no it wouldn't be suprising to have one. :)
diakopter libp6-pugs1 libp6-parrot1 06:15
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diakopter TimToady: let's see how STD.pm is visualized by www.cs.duke.edu/csed/jflap/ 06:25
lambdabot Title: JFLAP
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diakopter I'm being facetious of course. Someone would need to compile the grammar to their XML syntax to get those visualizations. 06:29
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thoughtpolice diakopter: wow, that looks pretty cool. :) 06:42
a nice experimentation tool, at the very very least.
TimToady actually, at the moment I'm working on compiling STD down to pure pugs-compatible method calls with no regex at all. 06:43
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diakopter TimToady: is the majority of Perl-6.0.0-STD (supposed to be) parseable by a GLR implementation (such as www.cs.berkeley.edu/~smcpeak/elkhound/ , which can generate a parser/ast-generator *in ocaml*, btw)? 06:56
lambdabot Title: Elkhound and Elsa
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pmurias morning 06:58
diakopter er, the grammar defined by that file, I mean
pmurias: 2am
TimToady: I mean, it claims to be able to parse any context-free grammar...
pmurias not here ;)
diakopter: 2am is morning in a sense ;) 07:05
TimToady diakopter: no, we're not really aiming at that
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diakopter is pugscode.org DNS still flapping? 15:06
TimToady dunno, just did an svn up okay 15:07
diakopter TimToady: do you ever use cygwin(/MinGW) while booted to Windows? 15:09
TimToady sure
it has...issues...
my main gripe about cygwin is the "Unicode, what's that?" attitude 15:10
diakopter hmm. its gcc was having trouble finding perl's EXTERN.h yesterday, but now I don't remember which XS'd module cpan was trying to build. 15:13
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diakopter I did (re)discover a way (for me) to easily swap between different $PATH setups/precendences - by prepending $PATH with an override dir, which is itself a symlink to zero or one of several path-override dirs, which themselves contain symlinks to the proper set of images I want the shell to find at different times. Switching configs is as simple as making aliases to commands that change which override dir the master link points to. <si 15:18
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diakopter ... that was discovered 30 years ago or something. and there are probably recommendeder and officialer ways, but I had fun figuring it out. 15:18
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diakopter the reason I needed something like that is that the installed locations of some sets of these images don't (always) correspond to being in one particular bin/. Of course, --prefix could have been used to get them into further-stratified precedence levels, but this is frankly easier. Anyway, enough OT spewing from me for this hour. 15:21
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diakopter (<sigh> I suppose I need to then do the same with MANPATH and all the lib PATHs :() 15:23
TimToady: do you use a perl.exe built under cygwin, or activeperl, or vanilla/strawberry winperl, or do you not use a perl.exe? :) 15:26
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DarkWolf84 windows... 15:30
diakopter DarkWolf84: uh huh
DarkWolf84 sighs 15:33
I didn't see the all conversation 15:34
it's really problem with the $PATH in windows 15:41
coz there is no standart paths like /usr/bin or /lib 15:42
moritz_ re 15:43
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moritz_ YaY, multibyte search in the irc logs works: moritz.faui2k3.org/irclog/search.pl...6%E6%98%A5 15:43
lambdabot Title: IRC logs - Search, tinyurl.com/2g5l6k
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DarkWolf84 moritz_, what u use for lambdabot? 15:49
for log bot* 15:50
my mistake
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diakopter moritz_: good job! :) 15:51
moritz_ DarkWolf84: my self made thingy, in misc/irclog/ilbot.pl in the pugs repository
diakopter: thanks, it was hard work with mysql :/ 15:52
diakopter DarkWolf84: but cygwin provides such a dirtree...
DarkWolf84 i c 15:55
moritz_ opinion question: do a few lines (2 or 3) of context make sense in the result pages of irclog search? 15:57
kjwcode moritz_: Absolutely.
moritz_ thanks. 1:0 for context ;) 15:58
kjwcode I'd do 3-4 lines, as it's possible there would be a couple of lines of cross-talk that could skew the context. Or make it configurable.
s/would/could/ 15:59
moritz_ first I'll make it hardcoded, and if it works I can still offer a setting for it 16:00
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kjwcode Sweet. :) 16:00
DarkWolf84 diakopter, I never used perl on windows 16:01
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TimToady diakopter: I use strawberry 16:03
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Alias_ purl, seen TimToady 16:31
oh wait
dammit
BinGOs like half an hour ago, dude. saying "diakopter: I use strawberry" 16:32
Alias_ ya :)
Was kind of hoping for a product review
BinGOs "It is like fruity" 16:33
Alias_ I bought a small tub of neopolitan icecream today :) 16:34
For photographic/logo purposes
But damn it, it was just sitting there begging me to eat it :( 16:35
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pugs_svnbot r17238 | moritz++ | [irclog]: search provides two lines of context on either side 17:18
diff: dev.pugscode.org/changeset/17238
lambdabot Title: Changeset 17238 - Pugs - Trac
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Alias_ seen Alias_ 17:42
buubot Alias_: Seen at Fri Aug 10 09:35:11 2007: <Alias_> But damn it, it was just sitting there begging me to eat it :(
Alias_ seen audreyt 17:43
buubot Alias_: Sorry, I haven't seen audreyt
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nowhere_man is there already a documentation of the Perl 6 API? the Debian package pugs-doc doesn't seem to have one 17:54
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DarkWolf84 perlcabal.org/syn/ 17:56
lambdabot Title: Official Perl 6 Documentation
nowhere_man what if I want the documentation of, say, the min function? 17:57
DarkWolf84 no perldoc for pugs if u mean that
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DarkWolf84 that's because perl6 is not finished yet 17:58
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nowhere_man OK 18:02
so I'm wondering, how is min supposed to know what the ordering of the array is? 18:03
is there a way to override the default?
Alias_ in cases with, say, numerically overloaded objects?
nowhere_man in any case where I store objects and I can devise a strict ordering for them 18:05
rhr nowhere_man: feather.perl6.nl/syn/S29.html#Ordering
lambdabot Title: S29
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nowhere_man thanks 18:06
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nowhere_man so how could I get the max of a range, by using min, just to understand? 18:16
my @a=1..9 18:17
min @a, :by(gt)
didn't work
TimToady range objects aren't implemented in pugs yet 18:19
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rhr ?eval min 1..9, :by(&infix:«>») 18:19
pugsbot_r17185 Error: Named argument found where no matched parameter expected: ("by",Ann (Pos (MkPos "<eval>" 1 15 1 25)) (Var "&infix:>"))
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TimToady and "by" wouldn't mean that anyway. "by" is the increment 18:20
the min listop will eventually take a comparator just like sort, but that is also not implemented 18:21
pasteling "kjwcode" at 209.17.146.129 pasted "pugs build error on OSX/x86 10.4.10." (6 lines, 365B) at sial.org/pbot/26789
nowhere_man TimToady: what is the increment in the context of min?
kjwcode Anyone know how to get around the error above? I'm installing a more up-to-date XCode, but I don't know if that's going to do the trick. 18:22
TimToady if you're referring to the .min method of a range object, that isn't implemented 18:23
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diakopter kjwcode: what version of gcc do you have? 18:23
kjwcode diakopter: Using 4.0.1, Apple build 5367. 18:24
diakopter you actually must use the Apple 4.0.1 one, if I recall.
ok
is this a new checkout?
kjwcode Yup, r17238.
diakopter which version of ghc?
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kjwcode ghc 6.6.1 -- Audrey's package. 18:25
diakopter hrm
(and you're sure it's actually using that particular ghc?)
TimToady okay, I see that it's going to be confusing to have an argument to min called "by".
kjwcode It's the only ghc on the system. The error is actually a gcc error, IIRC. 18:26
diakopter kjwcode: I'm not sure why it's trying to build Universal images. mine builds intel only 18:27
kjwcode Weird. I'm almost sure I ran into this last time I built from source, but that was too long ago to remember what I did. 18:28
I'm sure I'll figure it out. :)
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diakopter sorry I can't help :( 18:28
kjwcode No worries!
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kjwcode Figured it out... Don't use ActivePerl to run Makefile.PL. The build system seems to try to build Pugs using some of the settings of Perl, and that causes the problem (ActivePerl is universal). MacPorts Perl appears to work. 18:44
moritz_ kjwcode: maybe you could add a hint to INSTALL 18:46
kjwcode moritz_: I was just going to do that. :)
moritz_ kjwcode++
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thoughtpolice gah. i should probably update dip6. 18:50
i'm kind of stalled on ideas right now though. :/
rindolf thoughtpolice: implement the first function. 18:53
pugs_svnbot r17239 | kjwcode++ | Add note about build failures with ActivePerl on OS X.
diff: dev.pugscode.org/changeset/17239
lambdabot Title: Changeset 17239 - Pugs - Trac
rindolf thoughtpolice: in pugs.
moritz_ brethlessly awatis rindolfs first pugs commit 18:59
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pugs_svnbot r17240 | kjwcode++ | Smokeserv on .de domain gives 301, update to m19s28.dyndns.org. 19:59
diff: dev.pugscode.org/changeset/17240
lambdabot Title: Changeset 17240 - Pugs - Trac
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rindolf moritz_: I've already committed stuff to pugs. 20:19
moritz_ rindolf: I didn't know that :/
rindolf moritz_: this is mine - svn.openfoundry.org/pugs/examples/q.../graham.pl 20:20
moritz_ rindolf: what's your svn name? 20:22
rindolf moritz_: shlomif 20:23
20:23 TimToady joined
moritz_ git log|grep -Ei 'rindolf|shlomif'|wc -l 20:24
7
;-)
DarkWolf84 secret commit maker :)
20:25 fridim joined
fridim Hi. 20:25
diakopter fridim: hi
DarkWolf84 hi
moritz_ ?eval say "hi"
diakopter ?eval "hi" 20:26
pugsbot_r17185 OUTPUT[hi␤] Bool::True
"hi"
DarkWolf84 :>
online golf :>
fridim ?eval my %hash = <c 1 a 2>; my @vows = %hash<c a>; @vows[1] = 3; %hash; 20:27
pugsbot_r17185 {("a" => "2"), ("c" => "1")}
moritz_ good 20:28
moritz_ caresses pugsbot ;)
fridim so, my @vows is a reference to a NEW list (or array, I don't know) created when I wrote %hash<c a> ?
moritz_ no, if it was a ref the output would be a => 3 20:30
the assignment @vows[1]=3doesn't affect %hash
DarkWolf84 ref? 20:31
I think it was just copy
moritz_ there are no refs in p6 ;)
and yes, it's a (shallow) copy
fridim ?eval my @vows = <ok i don't understant>; my @foo = @vows; @foo[0] = "you"; @vows; 20:32
pugsbot_r17185 ["ok", "i", "don\'t", "understant"]
fridim mh ok
moritz_ fridim: do you have a commit bit? 20:33
fridim commit bit?
moritz_ the ability to change things in the pugs repository
ie to contribute ;)
diakopter svn commit access/account
fridim No.
diakopter PM one of us your email address and preferred username if you want one...
fridim I would know what it is otherwise :) 20:34
moritz_ if you want one, /msg or tell me or diakopter your email address ;)
probably ;)
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fridim I'am not so easy with haskell 20:34
diakopter ah, but you don't need to know haskell to contribute. there are plenty of ways. 20:35
moritz_ ?eval my %h = a => 1, b => 2; my @v := %h<a b>; @v[0]=5; %h
pugsbot_r17185 {("a" => 5), ("b" => 2)}
moritz_ YaY, binding++ 20:36
www.perlmonks.org/?node_id=628746 <-- a few ways to help perl6, mostly without haskell knowledge
lambdabot Title: Getting Involved with Perl 6
fridim ?eval my @foo = <ok girl>; my @vows = ("hi there", @foo); @foo = "you"; @vows[1]; 20:37
DarkWolf84 I think there is job for perl programers too
pugsbot_r17185 \"ok"
fridim oups
?eval my @foo = <ok girl>; my @vows = ("hi there", @foo); @foo[1] = "you"; @vows[1]; 20:38
pugsbot_r17185 \"ok"
moritz_ ?eval my @foo = <ok girl>; ("hi there", @foo)
pugsbot_r17185 ("hi there", ["ok", "girl"])
buetow ?eval my @foo = <ok girl>; ("hi there", *@foo) 20:39
pugsbot_r17185 Error: ␤Unexpected "foo"␤expecting term postfix, operator or ")"
moritz_ anyway, bed time for me ;)
fridim I don't understand my \"ok"
DarkWolf84 strange
sytax
fridim why it is not ["ok", "girl"] ? 20:40
or ["ok", "you"]
DarkWolf84 :) 20:41
buetow hmm 20:42
20:43 rindolf left
DarkWolf84 ?eval << "hi there" my @foo = <ok girl> >> 20:43
pugsbot_r17185 ("hi there", "my", "\@foo", "=", "<ok", "girl>")
DarkWolf84 oops
?eval ( "hi there", my @foo = <ok girl> ) 20:44
pugs_svnbot r17241 | kjwcode++ | Replace all mentions of m19s28.vlinux.de with m19s28.dyndns.org for
r17241 | kjwcode++ | consistency. Checked to make sure the files are indeed available.
diff: dev.pugscode.org/changeset/17241
lambdabot Title: Changeset 17241 - Pugs - Trac
pugsbot_r17185 ("hi there", ["ok", "girl"])
DarkWolf84 works
and it's short 20:45
fridim ?eval my @v = ("hi there", my @foo = <ok girl>); @v[1];
pugsbot_r17185 \"ok"
DarkWolf84 I don't understand the full idea of @@ 20:46
fridim ?eval my @v = ("hi there", my @foo = <ok girl>); @v[2];
pugsbot_r17185 \"girl"
fridim DarkWolf84, neither do I 20:47
DarkWolf84 $eval my @@foo = <hello world>~[ok qrty] 20:51
?eval my @@foo = <hello world>~[ok qrty]
pugsbot_r17185 Error: No such subroutine: "&ok"
DarkWolf84 oops
?eval my @@foo = <hello world>~([ok qrty])
pugsbot_r17185 Error: No such subroutine: "&ok" 20:52
DarkWolf84 ok
?eval my @@foo = <<hello world [ok qrty]>>
pugsbot_r17185 ["hello", "world", "[ok", "qrty]"]
DarkWolf84 not that I want 20:53
?eval my @@foo = <<hello world <ok qrty>>> 20:54
pugsbot_r17185 Error: ␤Unexpected "@@foo"␤expecting "=", context, ":" or "("
DarkWolf84 ?eval my @@foo = <hello world <ok qrty>>
pugsbot_r17185 ["hello", "world", "<ok", "qrty>"]
DarkWolf84 the same
?eval my @@foo = ('hello' 'world' <ok qrty>) 20:55
pugsbot_r17185 Error: ␤Unexpected "@@foo"␤expecting "=", operator, ")", context, ":" or "("
DarkWolf84 ?eval my @@foo = ('hello' 'world' ['ok' 'qrty'])
pugsbot_r17185 Error: ␤Unexpected "@@foo"␤expecting "=", operator, ")", context, ":" or "("
DarkWolf84 ?eval my @@foo = ('hello', 'world', ['ok', 'qrty']) 20:56
pugsbot_r17185 ["hello", "world", ["ok", "qrty"]]
DarkWolf84 that's better
?eval my @@foo[2][1] = ('hello', 'world', ['ok', 'qrty'])
pugsbot_r17185 ["hello", "world", ["ok", "qrty"]]
DarkWolf84 ?eval my @@foo[2] = ('hello', 'world', ['ok', 'qrty']) 20:57
pugsbot_r17185 ["hello", "world", ["ok", "qrty"]]
DarkWolf84 ?eval my @@foo = ('hello', 'world', ['ok', 'qrty']); @@foo[2][1]
pugsbot_r17185 \"qrty"
DarkWolf84 works
I've got the idea 20:58
sorry for the flood 20:59
21:01 ChanServ sets mode: +o diakopter, diakopter sets mode: +o TimToady, diakopter sets mode: -o diakopter
DarkWolf84 fridim, array of arays is just array of anonymous captures 21:02
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