perl6-projects.org/ | nopaste: sial.org/pbot/perl6 | evalbot: 'perl6: say 3;' | irclog: irc.pugscode.org/ | UTF-8 is your friend!
Set by moritz_ on 4 May 2009.
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pugs_svn r26734 | lwall++ | [S05] whack on regex augmentation syntax 01:11
r26735 | lwall++ | [S14] note (again) that macro syntax must be lexically scoped 01:19
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s1n should I be able to do the following: use 'Module'; #where Module is in @*INC 03:43
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pugs_svn r26736 | wayland++ | [S28] Update to conform with recent S02 changes 05:43
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pugs_svn r26737 | moritz++ | [t/spec] re-unfudge a passing test 08:32
r26738 | moritz++ | [t/spec] fudge an "augment" test for rakudo; try to test the same with existing methods 08:33
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moritz_ pmichaud, jnthn: we're currently annoying two other implementations (STD.pm and mildew) by keeping 'is also' in the test suite... 10:31
should I start switching to augment (or get rid of it, where possible) and at the same time fudge for rakudo? 10:32
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masak greps the perl 6 projects for 'is also' 10:43
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moritz_ masak: I recommend 'class.*is also', less false positives 10:44
pmurias moritz_: shouldn't the test suit describe the current spec?
moritz_ pmurias: it should, yes 10:45
pmurias: but it should also serve as regression tests for as many implementations as possible
pmurias: which is why it's a bit of a dilemma right now
pmurias moritz_: fixing rakudo seems the best option 10:46
moritz_ pmurias: yes
pmurias: but it seems to be non-trivial
pmurias a syntactic change shouldn't be hard (haven't look in how it is implemented) 10:48
moritz_ well, it's implemented as a trait now
and it's not going to stay a trait, but a syntactic feature
but it can't stay like this for long. 10:50
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moritz_ rakudo: class A { has $.Ƥ = 3 }; say A.new.Ƥ 10:51
p6eval rakudo 1f4ec5: OUTPUTĀ«3ā¤Ā»
moritz_ rakudo: class A { has $!Ƥ = 3; method Ƥ { $!Ƥ } }; say A.new.Ƥ 10:52
p6eval rakudo 1f4ec5: OUTPUTĀ«3ā¤Ā»
moritz_ rakudo: class A { has $.Ƥ }; say A.new(Ƥ => 3).Ƥ
p6eval rakudo 1f4ec5: OUTPUTĀ«error:imcc:syntax error, unexpected USTRINGC, expecting STRINGC ('unicode:"\x{e4}"')ā¤ in file 'EVAL_22' line 52ā¤Null PMC access in can()ā¤current instr.: '!dispatch_method' pc 17716 (src/builtins/guts.pir:110)ā¤Ā»
pugs_svn r26739 | moritz++ | [t/spec] get rid of two instances of "is also" 10:53
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moritz_ rakudo: say (Ƥ => 1).perl 11:09
p6eval rakudo 1f4ec5: OUTPUTĀ«"Ƥ" => 1ā¤Ā»
moritz_ rakudo: sub f(*%a) { say %a.perl }; f(Ƥ => 1)
p6eval rakudo 1f4ec5: OUTPUTĀ«error:imcc:syntax error, unexpected USTRINGC, expecting STRINGC ('unicode:"\x{e4}"')ā¤ in file 'EVAL_17' line 53ā¤{}ā¤Ā»
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pugs_svn r26740 | moritz++ | [t/spec] non-ASCII named arguments 11:15
moritz_ rakudo: my $x = :a<5>; say $x.map({.key => .value + 1}).perl 11:18
p6eval rakudo 1f4ec5: OUTPUTĀ«Method 'key' not found for invocant of class 'Failure'ā¤current instr.: 'parrot;P6metaclass;dispatch' pc 250869 (src/gen_actions.pir:23644)ā¤Ā»
moritz_ rakudo: role A::B {}; say 42 ~~ A 11:20
p6eval rakudo 1f4ec5: OUTPUTĀ«invoke() not implemented in class 'NameSpace'ā¤current instr.: '_block14' pc 65 (EVAL_20:50)ā¤Ā»
pugs_svn r26741 | moritz++ | [t/spec] simplify "($str but Role).uc" tests 11:25
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moritz_ rakudo: multi foo(Bool :$baz = Bool::False, *@vals) 11:32
p6eval rakudo 1f4ec5: OUTPUTĀ«Malformed routine definition at line 1, near "foo(Bool :"ā¤ā¤current instr.: 'parrot;PGE;Util;die' pc 129 (runtime/parrot/library/PGE/Util.pir:86)ā¤Ā»
moritz_ rakudo: multi foo(Bool :$baz = Bool::False, *@vals) { say "foo" }; foo(:baz(Bool::True), 1, 2, 3);
p6eval rakudo 1f4ec5: OUTPUTĀ«No applicable candidates found to dispatch to for 'foo'ā¤current instr.: '_block14' pc 91 (EVAL_18:57)ā¤Ā»
pugs_svn r26742 | pmurias++ | [re-smop] tools/ri supports DESTORYALL_ALL to change how DESTORYALL is generated 11:36
pmurias is storing .gitignore files in the pugs repo acceptable?
pugs_svn r26743 | pmurias++ | [re-smop] destroying p6opaque with a LOST frame 11:37
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moritz_ pmurias: just place them .git/info/exclude in your git repo 11:39
pmurias: at least that's what I do for the test suite
anyway, I wouldn't really mind
pugs_svn r26744 | pmurias++ | [re-smop] [re-mildew] commited .gitignore files for anyone using git-svn
moritz_ it's your hack space anyway ;-)
masak the latest Parrot doesn't build here. 11:43
I'm bisecting now.
moritz_ tries on linux 11:44
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jnthn H H 11:53
masak O AI 11:56
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masak jnthn: distributed Rakudo day! 12:02
jnthn masak: Yes! 12:03
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masak has some plans for the day too, mostly Web.pm-y 12:14
jnthn Gah. So now I have to do a full re-configure and re-build of Parrot when Rakudo bumps its version... 12:15
(Whereas for some simple changes just a re-compile with the latest source files would do fine...)
pugs_svn r26745 | pmurias++ | [re-smop] changed leftover %method DESTROYALL to %DESTROYALL {...%} 12:16
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masak rakudo: <47 92 111>.map(*.chr)[1,2,0].say 12:21
p6eval rakudo 1f4ec5: OUTPUTĀ«\o/ā¤Ā»
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masak ok, turns out r38577 broke my Parrot. 12:25
jnthn Commit message win though 12:27
"This is slightly
dangerous
"
What kinda failure do you get?
masak turns out it was.
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masak it says something about a bus... 12:27
and an error. 12:28
"Bus Error", it says.
jnthn ah, fancy words for segfault
masak oh well, time to visit #parrot
jnthn See if you can get a backtrace. 12:29
masak jnthn: my expertise with debugger ends somewhere before the ability to get a backtrace out of a failing build, unfortunately. 12:30
care to enlighten me?
s/debugger/debuggers/ 12:31
moritz_ jnthn: you can still 'cd parrot; svn up; make' 12:34
jnthn masak: First, find out how Parrot is being invoked when it segfaults. 12:35
Then gdb parrot
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jnthn r put arguments it is invoked with here 12:35
masak jnthn: oki. it sounds easy when you explain it. :)
jnthn (that is "r" followed by the arguments Parrot is being passed)
Wait for it to explode
then type bt
(and enter...) 12:36
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PhatEddy Just a quick reminder ... afaik I can't add my new test file, S10-packages/basic.t, to spectest.data so if it should be there someone else may have to add it ... 12:45
masak gist.github.com/109252 # Parrot r38577 stacktrace 12:46
jnthn PhatEddy: Is it fudged? 12:48
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PhatEddy yes its fudged and ran successfully with a rakudo pulled and built yesterday 12:49
jnthn masak: You've certainly tried a realclean?
masak jnthn: I always realclean.
jnthn OK, I suspected so.
And looking closer at the bt it's actually crashing while running load stuff... 12:50
masak: I think best bet is to send this, and revision info and platform into to the Parrot mailing list, or file a parrotbug. 12:53
masak does the latter
jnthn Aye, 'tis probably the better option. 12:54
pastorn is installing pugs through cabal
pleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeease don't crash!
masak pastorn: have you tried Rakudo? 12:55
jnthn makes some fruit tea and tries to decide what music to listen to while attempting to implement the hash versions of hyper operators
pastorn pugs doesn't require GHC6.10, does it?
masak: never heard of
pastorn is a haskell guy
masak pastorn: it's quite a nice Perl 6 implementation.
pastorn: and it doesn't require GHC, just Parrot.
pastorn masak: well, i like GHC 12:56
jnthn otoh, it's not written in Haskell...
pastorn: I'm not sure what the latest Pugs requirements are. I do know that Pugs is not really actively developed or maintained these days though.
masak pastorn: Pugs requires at least GHC 6.8.
jnthn Ah, OK. :-)
pastorn masak: then i'm cool
jnthn masak++ # not being too lazy to look it up :-) 12:57
pastorn FAIL!!!
masak pastorn: well, unless it requires 6.10 :)
pastorn regex-pcre-builtin-0.94.2.0.7.7 failed during the configure step. The
exception was:
exit: ExitFailure 1
pastorn gets mad
masak I might have been unclear. I didn't look it up.
I just happen to know that Pugs at one time required 6.8
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pastorn oh, i needed a foreign package 12:59
masak I thought that's what Cabal did for you. 13:00
pastorn masak: as long as the package is in cabal, but this was a wrapper package that uses foreign (C i guess) functions, and wraps haskell types around them 13:01
masak ok.
pastorn so i was missing the package that it wraps around, something*pcre*something 13:02
pmurias pastorn: what do you plan to use Pugs for/
?
pastorn pmurias: no idea yet... i have a program i was thinking of making in haskell, but will probably be a lot easier in perl 13:03
masak pastorn: the reason you're getting these interested questions is that most of us use other Perl 6 implementations than Pugs nowadays.
pastorn pmurias: the site www.tv.nu which shows what's on tv in sweden is annoying, i wanna make a CLI program that just downloads that page and prints it in a terminal
masak pastorn: ah, a fellow Swede. hai. 13:05
pastorn masak: hai2u
FUCK!
pastorn broke apt
masak I understand Haskell is quite popular at Chalmers. 13:07
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pmurias pastorn: it would be definitly easier to to that in perl 5 rather than in perl 6... 13:08
masak pastorn: for a task such as the one you want to perform, I'd actually recommend Perl 5 and one or more CPAN modules.
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azawawi hi 13:17
is anyone having trouble with the latest rakudo/parrot build on win32? 13:18
jnthn azawawi: I haven't tried *the* most latest, but I've heard reports of problems with latest on OSX 13:19
However, the version (not latest) that Rakudo currently requires built fine for me.
azawawi jnthn: this time im getting an infinite "mingw32-make: write error: No such file or directory" after perl Configure.pl --gen-parrot 13:20
jnthn: i made sure that i realclean-ed everything including parrot
jnthn Oh, ouch
I know Rakudo's configure and Parrot building scripts were patched quite a bit yesterday. 13:21
I don't know so much what the changes were though...but it sounds like it might be something in that.
azawawi jnthn: actually it is not infinite since mingw32-make stack gets full after a while and croaks... :)
jnthn ;-) 13:22
Perhaps you can nopaste the start of the output up to where it starts recursing. 13:23
I guess pmichaud will be around at some point soonish today and he'll have more ideas than I.
azawawi jnthn: i will do it now... after collecting it first...
azawawi tries to continue mingw32-make to see perl6 works or not...
it works afterwards btw... perl6 runs hello world... 13:25
jnthn Ah, OK. 13:26
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jnthn I'm guessing it's some oddity about mingw32's make program. 13:27
azawawi runs 'perl Configure.pl --gen-parrot 1>out.txt 2>&1' 13:30
jnthn: sial.org/pbot/36525 13:32
jnthn oh, ouch. 13:34
Weird.
pmichaud good morning 13:35
jnthn morning, pmichaud 13:36
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azawawi pmichaud: hi there 13:36
pmichaud: full win32 build error log: feather.perl6.nl/~azawawi/out.txt.bz2
pmichaud looking 13:37
moritz_: Most of the 'is also's in the suite can be easily rewritten to not use is also. We should do that. 13:38
For the rest, I'm fine with fudging them for now.
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azawawi moritz_: i cant see any tests for slang in t/spec; is it new? 13:40
pmichaud azawawi: less than 24 hrs new, yes :-) 13:41
azawawi pmichaud: interesting, thx
pastorn pmurias: but then i wouldn't learn perl6
pmichaud azawawi: I'm not really sure what would be causing the issue with building on your win32 environment -- at the step where it's having trouble the Configure.pl script is simply doing "make clean"
what happens if you do "make clean" manually at that point (or your platform's equivalent) ? 13:42
azawawi pmichaud: let me check it again then; i did a clean/realclean in rakudo and parrot directory before that error and made sure there are no generated files in src/pmc 13:43
pmichaud okay. Configure.pl is supposed to be taking care of that for us now. 13:46
(but yes, there could have been something left over from the previous build system)
azawawi debugs it... 13:47
pmichaud: what's 'if (open my $REV, '-|', "$make clean") { close $REV; }' actually doing? 13:48
pmichaud: i replaced it with `$make clean` and it worked...
pmichaud it's invoking $make clean, but throwing away the output.
Oh, I bet that's the issue.
I guess your make doesn't like the "throw away the output" step, since it doesn't have true pipes 13:49
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azawawi win32 + process output = disaster :) 13:49
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pmichaud okay, I can fix that. 13:49
I have a patch for you to try -- one sec
azawawi thx
pmichaud nopaste.snit.ch/16504 13:51
actually, I'll just push it to github. 13:52
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pmichaud pushed. 13:53
pmurias pastorn: pugs seems to be on hackage 13:54
azawawi tests it...
mberends masak: proto pumpkin? 13:55
pmurias pastorn: do you already know perl5? 13:56
pmichaud I have to run a short errand (thatmight turn into a long errand) -- bbia(b|w)
dalek kudo: f2557a8 | pmichaud++ | Configure.pl:
Fix bug with Configure.pl's 'make clean' on Win32. (azawawi++)
 13:57
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azawawi pmichaud: thx, it works now... 13:59
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TimToady g'day @mates 14:04
jnthn oh hai
pmichaud good morning, TimToady 14:06
araujo oh no
lambdabot araujo: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it.
pmichaud (back from errand set #1)
jnthn rakudo: my %a = a => 1; %a = b => 2; say %a.perl 14:09
p6eval rakudo f2557a: OUTPUTĀ«{"b" => 2}ā¤Ā»
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pastorn pmurias: no 14:13
pugs_svn r26746 | jnthn++ | [t/spec] Tests for symmetric cases of hyper operatorss on hashes. 14:24
pmurias pastorn: learning perl 5 might make more sense, the language itself is much worse but the implementation is mature and CPAN is superb 14:25
pastorn pmurias: what's so horrible about perl6? 14:26
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pmurias pastorn: it's not done yet 14:30
pastorn pmurias: the language spec or the implementation?
pmurias the implementation 14:31
pastorn well, then i don't mind
a segfault here and there isn't that horrible
pmurias it all depends if you want to get something done or have an adventure 14:34
pastorn the latter 14:35
if just wanted it done i'd write it in haskell
pmurias pastorn: did pugs from hackage work for you? 14:36
pastorn pmurias:
no
pmurias you could try rakudo
pastorn trying to install it forced me to get dependencies with APT, which in turn broke APT
so now i'm stuck with a broken package manager 14:37
pastorn wishes he was on free bsd right now
pmurias hmm, rakudo doesn't depend on much
mberends pastorn: can you fix your apt config ok? 14:44
pastorn mberends: dude, no way
so fuck this, i'm migrating to free bsd now
pastorn is downloading 7.2-RELEASE-amd64 14:45
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pugs_svn r26747 | azawawi++ | [S:H:P6] version 0.54 contains the latest STD with slang support. 14:45
r26748 | jnthn++ | [t/spec] Tests for asymmetric variants of hypers on hashes. 14:46
PhatEddy rakudo: say "match Ƥ" if "Ƥ" ~~ /<alpha>/; 14:48
p6eval rakudo f2557a: OUTPUTĀ«match Ƥā¤Ā»
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mberends masak: 'allo 14:56
masak mberends: o' 'ai
jnthn oh, crap, I checked in tests without fudging them :-(
PhatEddy any way to restrict the above match so <alpha> only matches [a-zA-Z] - there are cases where that might be convenient 14:57
masak is back from a nice 90-minute walk
jnthn PhatEddy: write /<[a-zA-Z]>/ I guess :-)
Wanting that is not the common case though.
masak mberends: do you have 90 minutes to spare? 14:58
mberends PhatEddy: TimToady++ firmly stated that _ is also alpha
masak: conveniently, yes :)
masak mberends: how about a distributed hackathon, creating a very tiny blog on top of Web.pm?
mberends yes, let's go for it. 14:59
masak mberends: let's spend about 5 minutes bikeshedding on the name, and then just create the two functions I think are necessary to get a blog going: showing the posts and posting.
\o/
ok, it's 17:00 here now. final deadline for the project is 18:30.
mberends: how about a slightly reckless, cool name that appeals to generation Y? 15:00
something like "mogblog".
pmichaud rakudo: say ?('a' ~~ /<ascii>/)
p6eval rakudo f2557a: OUTPUTĀ«Unable to find regex 'ascii'ā¤Null PMC access in invoke()ā¤current instr.: 'parrot;PGE;Grammar;' pc 281 (EVAL_16:123)ā¤Ā» 15:01
masak bah, that one's in RT already... :/
ETICKETSATURATION
time to create more bugs! :)
pmichaud which one is in RT already? 15:02
masak pmichaud: calling non-existent rule.
mberends can't think of a good name under pressure, and puts the kettle on for inspiration
pmichaud oh.
mberends: "context!"
masak pmichaud: that's actually quite good. :)
PhatEddy is there some way of specifying a char set for regexes ebcdic/ascii/utfXX ?
masak other possible sources of inspiration: quantum physics/computing, geology, latest star trek movie... 15:03
mberends masak: that's too old (Oslo). How about 'yarn' (double meaning) 15:04
PhatEddy not sure if that was a good question but curious
masak mberends: I must be slow today. what's the duplicity in meaning?
pmichaud utfXX is actually an encoding, not a character set.
regex ascii { <[\x00..\x7f]> } # maybe 15:05
rakudo: regex ascii { <[\x00..\x7f]> }; say ?('a' ~~ /<ascii>/)
TimToady that's confusing bytes with characters
p6eval rakudo f2557a: OUTPUTĀ«1ā¤Ā»
TimToady well, I suppose not really 15:06
pmichaud rakudo: regex ascii { <[\x00..\x7f]> }; say ?('a' ~~ /<ascii>&<alpha>/)
p6eval rakudo f2557a: OUTPUTĀ«1ā¤Ā»
mberends masak: yarn = a tale, or a thread. and for thirds, 'yet another something something'
pmichaud rakudo: regex ascii { <[\x00..\x7f]> }; say ?('Ƥ' ~~ /<ascii>&<alpha>/)
p6eval rakudo f2557a: OUTPUTĀ«0ā¤Ā»
TimToady but matching <[A..Z]> could be matching EBCDIC underneath, as long as it preserves unicode semantics
masak mberends: sold. creating github repo.
pmichaud rakudo: regex ascii { <[\x00..\x7f]> }; say ?('Ƥ' ~~ /<ascii&alpha>/)
masak oh, actually, I'dd use create-new-project in proto.
p6eval rakudo f2557a: OUTPUTĀ«Statement not terminated properly at line 1, near "~~ /<ascii"ā¤ā¤current instr.: 'parrot;PGE;Util;die' pc 129 (runtime/parrot/library/PGE/Util.pir:86)ā¤Ā»
mberends yes do that, I want to do proto work as well 15:07
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TimToady but for now most any implementation is likely to simply transliterate EBCDIC into unicode chars internally 15:07
pmichaud Agreed.
masak mberends: quick thought that hit me: we could easily add an option in create-new-project to create a stub webapp using Web.pm :) 15:08
pmichaud Just this week I got an email from someone who is trying to run PmWiki on an EBCDIC platform.
(and it's not working out so well...)
jnthn Yet Another Rubbish Notebook ;-)
PhatEddy thx - I think I more or less followed that ...
mberends masak: yes, the possibilities are truly endless... 15:09
pmichaud PhatEddy: if you're primarily interested in matching ascii letters, then <[A..Za..z]> would seem like your best bet.
masak āˆž++
pmichaud But you can also do the 'ascii' regex as illustrated above.
masak github.com/masak/yarn/ 15:10
TimToady I need to make rules just a bit smarter about whitespace, so I don't have to write strange things like: 15:11
rule trait_verb:handles {<sym> <noun> }
whenever I use a syntactic category like trait_verb:, I never want the initial whitespace 15:12
masak mberends: slight instructions/reality discrepancy in create-new-project: it wants me to add the project to projects.list, but when I open the file, it's already there.
(step 6)
pmichaud TimToady: I wonder how much pain we would inflict if we said that leading/trailing ws in the regex doesn't correspond to <.ws>
TimToady I've only wanted to suppress the leading
pmichaud but there's also the case of: 15:13
TimToady but really only for rules that are used in alternations that want to do LTM
pmichaud rule foo { x | y | z }
detecting "leading <.ws>" in that situation might be a little tricky.
mberends masak: true, the append might be evil to some people. also appending hinders future git pulls on proto.
pmichaud (doable, but tricky.)
masak mberends: aye, evil.
mberends: but here I was mainly talking about instructions not squaring with reality. 15:14
TimToady basically, any LTM alternation wants to pull <.ws> out front somehow
(but only if any of the alternatives need it) 15:15
mberends masak: for the sake of git pull let's not ( automatically | evilly ) append to projects.list then. my bad. 15:16
masak no prob. we're much more evil dropping make.lof files everwhere right now due to builds not working.
s/lof/log/
mberends masak: please pass the proto pumpkin, and add me a contributor to yarn. 15:18
masak mberends: I thought you had the pumpkin. :)
jnthn OH NOES WE LOST TEH PUMPKIN
masak :D
mberends: I told you to drop it off at kindergarten yesterday. don't tell me you didn't pick it up. 15:19
jnthn OK, now Rakudo has hyper operators that work on hashes. :-)
masak \o/ 15:20
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mberends masak: $pumpkin('proto').autovivify( holder => mberends ); 15:20
masak whoa, as if Rakudo needs manual autovivification on top of all the bogus one going on... :)
mberends masak: why are there so many pumpkins outside the front door? 15:21
masak mberends: guess they're from the kindergarten, here to complain.
dalek kudo: 95aab9d | jnthn++ | src/builtins/assign.pir:
Implement hash versions of hyper operators.
 15:22
mberends masak: permission to masak/yarn denied # git clone git@github... 15:24
masak mberends: I'm on it.
masak 's browser is slow, and has Javascript disabled...
masak defects to secondary browser 15:25
mberends: there you go.
mberends went. cloned. has luxury of primary and secondary laptops today. 15:26
15:26 justatheory left
masak first human commit: added web.pm as dep. 15:27
next step: making it say OH HAI in the browser.
I think I'll just clone the Nibbler and work from that.
mberends sure, jus' a li'l nibblet sayz 'OH NIBL' 15:29
masak done. 15:31
I can commit now, but I'm still waiting for Rakudo to compile so I can try it.
mberends any objection to a blank line before each entry (and its comment) in config.proto?
masak mberends: that might actually be beneficial. 15:32
mberends: I've felt it's a bit crowded at times.
especially without colour-coding to pick out the important parts.
mberends ok, committing...
masak ah, testing it through Oslo, which I had installed under proto. 15:33
15:33 nbrown_ joined
masak works like a charm. 15:35
committing.
15:35 M_o_C joined
masak ok, that's 35 out of the 90 minutes. time to think a little about design. :) 15:38
I propose having a data/ folder with one file for each post, named after the timestamp it was posted.
an empty or nonexistent data/ folder means no posts yet.
end of design thinking for now. :) 15:39
mberends some nntp server work like that and give their maintainer filesystem hell.
too many short files is bad
masak mberends: indeed.
mberends: we should really have a DB. 15:40
mberends lines() is our friend
jnthn Add a check for minimum length and complain peoples post are too short. That avoids many short files.
;-)
mberends lol !
masak :-)
15:40 kate21de left
masak mberends: ok, changing my immutable design to have one large file data/posts instead. 15:41
mberends one filename per blog or topic
one folder per author
masak mberends: I'm not creating multi-blog, multi-author support within the 90 minutes.
mberends no, but leave space for the next 90 minutes 15:42
masak I just want the posts to show up on the screen.
bah. YAGNI.
Maya is the "real" blogging software anyway. I just want a proof-of-concept. 15:43
mberends ok, whatever for now. one record (===line) per post. regex to pick out date field from front. format yyyy-mm-dd hh:mm
is there a limit on line length apart from 2 ** 31? 15:45
masak what's the advantage of doing our own parsing rather than eval() on a .perl structure?
oh, half-time already. 15:46
mberends eval is vulnerable to injection attacks. remember taint?
masak I know, I know. 15:47
tell that to the November people, they still use eval.
and that project is still 1 year old.
moritz_ unbelievable ;-)
masak even given all its disadvantages, it's still a pretty good roundtripping/parsing/storage solution.
moritz_ hopes that he can fix the action methods of his JSON parser some day
masak rebels and uses eval 15:48
mberends november_people: stop using eval! it's evil!
Infinoid it's eval!
mberends stop using evil! it's eval!
masak :)
moritz_ or even better, I have to find the (suspected) rakudo bug, reduce it and report it 15:49
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masak moritz_: consider it a moral obligation. 15:50
mberends moritz_: does your JSON code use eval, like the evil Javascript people do? 15:51
moritz_ mberends: no 15:52
15:52 nbrown left, nbrown_ is now known as nbrown
moritz_ only `use' might use eval under the hood (don't know), and I use `use' 15:52
masak rakudo: sub foo() { say "OH HAI" }; foo :a<2>
p6eval rakudo 95aab9: OUTPUTĀ«OH HAIā¤Ā»
mberends phew, moritz_ is someone we can trust.
moritz_ masak: consider it noted, and .
masak rakudo: sub foo() { say "OH HAI" }; foo :a=<2>
p6eval rakudo 95aab9: OUTPUTĀ«Unable to set lvalue on PAST::Val nodeā¤current instr.: 'parrot;PAST;Val;lvalue' pc 623 (src/PAST/Node.pir:163)ā¤Ā»
masak just got bitten by this silly typo. 15:53
don't know if it's possible to have a nice error message there...
moritz_ why does it even parse?
std: sub foo() { say "OH HAI" }; foo :a=<2>
p6eval std 26748: OUTPUTĀ«ok 00:04 36mā¤Ā»
masak moritz_: :a is a pair, no?
moritz_ masak: yes... 15:54
but
does it call foo(:a) and assign to it?
masak (foo :a)=<2>, probably
aye.
pmichaud std: foo :a=<2> 15:59
p6eval std 26748: OUTPUTĀ«Undeclared routine:ā¤ foo used at 1 ā¤ok 00:02 35mā¤Ā»
pmichaud std: sub foo() { ... }; foo :a=<2>
15:59 perl7 joined
p6eval std 26748: OUTPUTĀ«ok 00:02 36mā¤Ā» 15:59
pmichaud (oh, just saw this was already done)
16:00 broquaint joined
masak mberends: check out yarn, it now outputs posts. :) 16:01
pmichaud afk, more errands :-|
masak next phase, getting it to create new posts.
hm, I need a dispatcher. :)
faking it for now, since I only have two modes.
16:02 FurnaceBoy joined
mberends Tags is cool 16:02
masak indeed.
quite easy to work with.
not very scalable, but definitely nice.
16:02 kidd left
TimToady it's almost certainly assigning to :a 16:03
remember std doesn't really do semantics
and whether something is a valid lvalue is semantics
jnthn rakudo: my $x = 3; my @a; :a.push($x); $x = 5; say @a[0];
p6eval rakudo 95aab9: OUTPUTĀ«Could not locate a method 'push' to invoke on class 'Pair'.ā¤current instr.: 'die' pc 16834 (src/builtins/control.pir:225)ā¤Ā»
jnthn rakudo: my $x = 3; my @a; @a.push($x); $x = 5; say @a[0];
p6eval rakudo 95aab9: OUTPUTĀ«5ā¤Ā»
masak o_O 16:04
jnthn: is that a known one?
jnthn nie je dobre...
masak definitely not.
jnthn masak: Yeah, it's the issue that underlies rt.perl.org/rt3/Ticket/Display.html?id=61982
masak ok.
TimToady std: 42 = 42 + 1
jnthn And I wouldn't be surprised, a few more bugs.
p6eval std 26748: OUTPUTĀ«ok 00:02 35mā¤Ā»
jnthn I've got a patch for it...smoking now.
16:05 Patterner left, Psyche^ is now known as Patterner
masak nice. 16:05
jnthn yeah though bizzarely with the patch I fail S03-junctions/autothreading.t 16:07
16:11 icwiener left
jnthn -> shops, bbiab 16:13
16:13 broquaint left 16:18 broquaint joined 16:26 DemoFreak joined
masak finds a bug in Rakudo 16:26
mberends: HALP 16:28
mberends what bug?
masak never mind the bug right now, I have a question :) 16:29
can I get HTTP::Daemon to give me POST params?
aw, there goes my deadline. :(
no matter.
I almost did what I wanted.
mberends last pull runs here so far, without dispatcher. POST was possible under netcat/socat. quick workaround = switch to GET. 16:30
masak mberends: plz check latest Yarn.pm
ok, switching to GET for now.
mberends pulz
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mberends GET should populate $req.query_string 16:33
masak aye.
masak finds a bug in Tags 16:36
16:36 M_o_C left
masak runs into unimpl part of Web::Utils 16:38
oh ffs.
16:39 M_o_C joined
masak yay! I just made my first Yarn blog post! 16:42
mberends \o/ 16:43
masak: HTTP::Daemon needs lots of cage cleaning. I would rather do that outside of Web.pm and Yarn first, then see if you can merge the changes tomorrow, first into Yarn and then Web if you're happy with that? (u seemz hapi) 16:44
masak can haz hapi 16:45
aye. Web.pm still haz its own HTTP::Daemon, but if you do your cleaning in the http-daemon project, I'll make sure to switch Web.pm over to that when you're done.
...which, incidentally, will create our first dependency on a dependency... so time to write that extra code in proto. :P 16:46
mberends it could even do with Occam's Razor treatment.
masak that goes for a lot of code out there. 16:47
anyway, looking forward to what you come up with.
mberends ok, just finding a few bugs in './proto test ...' 16:48
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mberends masak: for those dependencies, where shall we store the various paths to be joined into PERL6LIB? 16:52
masak mberends: not sure I understand the question. 16:53
mberends (or generate it dynamically from self.installed-projects() )?
masak those paths are calculated dynamically from all transitive deps. 16:54
mberends if proto installs them all, only proto knows who they are, and 'use' commands rely on proto maintaining PERL6LIB. 16:55
the project tries 'use' away from proto and gets 'file not found' 16:56
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mberends maybe proto needs to ask the user to maintain PERL6LIB in her .profile 16:57
masak mberends: no, I think we should go down that path... again.
mberends: it's like this: if user uses proto, the PERL6LIB problems go away.
if user doesn't use proto, problems reappear.
mberends evil world domination, heh
masak but they're not _unsolvable_ probalems, it's just a matter of learning to do it manually. 16:58
I set PERL6LIB all the time.
it's no big deal.
mberends: more like making people addicted, and then pretending we didn't see it coming. :)
um, maybe that is world domination...
mberends proto could test the existing PERL6LIB and warn the user about apparently missing paths 16:59
masak aye, that's nice. 17:00
but internally, proto always has the full information, putting together its own PERL6LIB.
that sounds like a humane, merciful way.
mberends btw, that env versus export is this: export makes a lasting addition to the current environment, env makes a temporary new child environment which can omit content from the parent, hence safer. 17:01
masak mberends: right. 17:08
mberends masak++: succeeded in posting locally :-)
masak \o/ 17:09
mberends: I'm making a patch now so that old posts don't get overwritten :)
mberends Yarn.pm:20 :a instead of :w probably 17:10
17:10 jhorwitz joined
jnthn back 17:11
17:11 rindolf joined, Whiteknight left
masak mberends: hm, but I'm doing the .perl thing. 17:11
mberends
.oO( sigh )
 17:13
masak you can sigh all you want, it's still darned practical.
and frankly, I don't see the risk you speak of.
mberends .perl FTW
masak all the data is kept on disk. there's no dangerous data coming in through the wire. 17:14
now, if I were to eval user input, that'd be a risk.
but it's not what this is. this is quoted user input. :)
strings.
mberends indeed. I'll start hosting a yarnserver shortly, and ask mst to list it :) 17:15
masak mberends++ 17:16
that's some serious dogfooding.
mberends: you can blog about hacking on yarn :)
mberends will do! 17:17
masak mberends++ # strange loop
ok, I'm done with my little project.
what I feel is most needed right now in yarn is a redirect to '/' after creating a post, so one doesn't get just an empty page. 17:18
mberends no prob, can do that 17:19
masak great. 17:20
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masak not sure if Web.pm is up to it, but whatever workaround that does the trick is better than the current state. 17:20
jnthn (hosting iron man blog on Yarn)++ 17:21
mberends lolcats can haz yarn en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yarn#Craft_yarns 17:22
masak wild hackathon summary: it didn't take 90 minutes, took more like 130. found a couple of bugs along the way. hoping to be able to recreate them. 17:23
17:23 justatheory left
masak ok, so I do this locally: 17:25
{ my $fh = open("foo", :w) or die; $fh.print("OH HAI") }; say slurp("foo") 17:26
I get an empty line back.
is it a bug?
mberends close the file to flush the buffer
masak mberends: I know.
mberends: the point is, shouldn't $fh close when it goes out of scope?
(that's why I have the {} there) 17:27
mberends OIC, it's a bug then
masak submits rakudobug 17:28
mberends hence Yarn.pm:25 $fh.close();
masak aye. 17:29
sometimes I wish for Ruby's block-open syntax. it makes a lot of sense to me.
17:31 amoc joined
jhorwitz jnthn: ping 17:33
jnthn jhorwitz: pong
jhorwitz greetings! :)
jnthn hi! :-) 17:34
How goes mod_*?
jhorwitz there's a 'count' method for the 'Sub' class in src/parrot/misc.pir AND src/classes/Code.pir.
jnthn Oh, hmm.
jhorwitz causing naughty errors in mod_* :)
don't know which one is extraneous 17:35
jnthn Same, but we probably don't one both.
jhorwitz ya
jnthn Looks like for now the one in misc.pir is the one to keep. 17:36
mberends rakudo: my $bar; $bar.say;
p6eval rakudo 95aab9: OUTPUTĀ«Use of uninitialized valueā¤ā¤Ā»
mberends jnthn: could you make the above error mention $bar ? 17:37
jnthn mberends: Not really; values don't know their name, as it were. They might be bound to many names. 17:40
jhorwitz jnthn: if you fix the 'count' issue, can you push that out? i don't think i can....
jnthn We might be able to make some kind of guess...
17:40 pmurias joined
jnthn jhorwitz: Sure - just got a local patch that I'm trying to track down some issues in at the moment...will do that for you soon. 17:40
jhorwitz jnthn++ :) 17:41
17:45 kidd joined
jhorwitz jnthn: you were pondering YAPC::NA at the summit in november -- still pondering? 17:47
17:48 ejs1 joined
masak heads home to eat nom 17:52
17:53 masak left 17:54 ejs1 left
jnthn jhorwitz: I won't make it this year. 17:56
pmichaud: ping 17:57
pmichaud pong 17:58
jnthn pmichaud: I'm looking into the bug exposed by: 18:00
rakudo: my $x = 3; my @a; @a.push($x); $x = 5; say @a[0];
p6eval rakudo 95aab9: OUTPUTĀ«5ā¤Ā»
jnthn First, do you agree the output should be 3? That is, a push is more assign-ish than binding-ish?
pmichaud Yes. .push should be doing the equivalent of an assign there. 18:01
It's a known bug.
(one I'm planning to resolve as part of the List refactor)
jnthn Ah, OK. I've written a patch that solves it.
pmichaud that's fine, we can apply it. What does the patch look like? 18:02
jnthn However, it makes a few other tests fail (as well as a few unexpectedly pass).
Let me nopaste 18:03
pasteling "jnthn" at 85.216.157.73 pasted "proposed patch" (55 lines, 1.6K) at sial.org/pbot/36528
pmichaud + copy $P1, $P0 18:04
is not completely good
better is
$P1 = new 'Perl6Scalar'
'infix:='($P1, $P0)
is there a strong reason for creating the extra ResizablePMCArray there? 18:05
(the push_list)?
I would just put the new elements directly onto self.
in general we should probably never be doing $P1 = new 'Failure' -- that's obsolete. 18:07
jnthn Sure, was going for minimal change since I knew you were on with a refactor too...
OK, can try that.
At least one failure is legit though.
pmichaud we either create a Perl6Scalar (which btw automatically gets bound to a Failure), or we call 'undef'()
jnthn See the implementation of map in the setting and it's use of push
It breaks a test on mutating $_ in the map.
pmichaud map is wrong there. 18:08
jnthn OK, I thought so too. 18:09
pmichaud There was a long discussion about this some time ago -- i.e., how to implement 'map' in Perl 6 (it appeared we didn't have sufficient primitives in place for it)
I don't know that it was ever resolved.
jnthn Yeah, that was my next question. I can see why it's wrong, but it's not obvious to me how to do it right. 18:10
18:10 payload left
pmichaud I vote that we fix push, and either regress on map in the spectests or we fix map (possibly by moving it back to PIR) 18:10
18:10 payload joined
pmichaud it's okay with me if we use inline PIR for map() in the setting. 18:10
18:11 perl7 left
pmichaud it might be that @args in the existing map needs to be doing things with binding instead of push. 18:11
jnthn Yeah, inlining a bit of PIR could do it quite easily. I can see that bit.
Yes, a "binding push" is what map needs there.
18:12 Eevee left
pmichaud anyway, I'd vote for inline PIR then. 18:12
someday we might also get it to work via a slice
i.e., take &expr(|@args[^&expr.arity]); 18:13
except using $.list instead of @args 18:14
18:22 payload left 18:24 payload joined
jnthn Wow. Switching to creating a Perl6Scalar and using infix:= makes us fail to compile the setting?! 18:25
get_number() not implemented in class 'Capture' 18:27
current instr.: 'parrot;Perl6;Grammar;Actions;_block4550' pc 158793 (src/gen_actions.pir:13915)
called from Sub 'parrot;Perl6;Grammar;Actions;circumfix' pc 158368 (src/gen_actions.pir:13752)
jnthn -> dinner, will look deeper soonish.
pmichaud there may be other places that are incorrectly depending on binding-semantics for push. :-( 18:29
18:29 ejs1 joined
pmurias does the svn repo suffer from many small commits? 18:31
18:38 ejs1 left 18:40 cookys left, |MoC| joined, M_o_C left 18:42 |MoC| left, |MoC| joined
TimToady @tell masak no, p6 doesn't guarantee timely destruction, so you have to close a file explicitly if you want to know it's closed right now and not at the next GC run 18:45
lambdabot Consider it noted.
18:48 ejs1 joined 18:51 Khisanth left
pmurias TimToady: is there a way to guaranty will be GC'ed at the end of block behaviour like $! uses? 18:51
18:51 Khisanth joined
TimToady currently defined, 'is leave {.close}', but nobody implements that yet, that I know of 18:53
18:54 |MoC| is now known as M_o_C 19:02 Whiteknight joined
pmichaud TimToady: where does that go, exactly? 19:07
19:12 ejs1 left, Eevee joined
TimToady the ideas was to say my $fh is leave {.close} = open $file; 19:24
*idea
19:25 masak joined
masak \o/ 19:25
lambdabot masak: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it.
TimToady but we haven't thought about it in a long time
masak @messages
lambdabot TimToady said 39m 59s ago: no, p6 doesn't guarantee timely destruction, so you have to close a file explicitly if you want to know it's closed right now and not at the next GC run
masak @clear
lambdabot Messages cleared.
masak TimToady: understood. closing ticket.
TimToady some platforms may guarantee it, but programs that rely on it aren't going to be portable 19:26
masak nod.
TimToady maybe there's room for another declarator that destroys at leave time 19:27
masak 'mine' :)
TimToady kaboom
moritz_ so that the user has to decide in advance which objects live on the stack?
that's so C'ish 19:28
TimToady std: constant C'ish = 42;
p6eval std 26748: OUTPUTĀ«ok 00:02 35mā¤Ā»
moritz_ C < 21 # I can't believe C is half the truth, or more 19:29
TimToady I don't think C is underage 19:30
moritz_ the idea of underage differs among cultures and countries
TimToady but C is closer to 42 than 21
masak rakudo: ord('C').say 19:31
p6eval rakudo 95aab9: OUTPUTĀ«67ā¤Ā»
masak indeed.
jnthn C 9s (notably) older than me. :-)
*i
*is
TimToady I think C is even eligible to be president of the united states
masak oh, the horror. 19:32
moritz_ so is fortran.
masak I could see Lisp as president, though.
TimToady to liberal to get elected, I suspect
masak yes, probably. 19:33
TimToady *too
"I am not now, nor have I ever been, a member of the Lisp Party." 19:34
masak "liar! you're a CommonLisp!"
masak stops trying to smash puns together at relativistic speeds 19:35
plan for the evening: cleaning up Yarn from the chaos of its genesis, and then blogging about it. 19:36
19:36 ejs joined, rindolf left
mberends no he's not! 19:37
just restin' 19:38
oh for a site ( on which to blog | about which to blog ) 19:39
jnthn Blog about yarn on yarn. :-)
mberends :D
yarn about yarn on yarn # it's a verb too, innit? 19:40
jnthn Yes. :-) 19:41
mberends 'tis now, anyway :)
jnthn often went t' pub for pint 'n' yarn.
yorkshire++
mberends perfect! 19:42
masak: if Web.pm has no sessions yet, I'll have to cobble something together with password hashing to authenticate authors and keep out spam. 19:44
no https yet :( 19:45
pmurias mberends: use public and private keys :)
mberends :) 19:46
yarn can probably store and validate passwords by running shasum 19:49
masak sorry, got pulled away by phone. 19:50
mberends masak: does OS X have shasum?
masak mberends: I'm likely to want to help you with sessions, since November needs it too. 19:51
mberends: oh, you shellster!
mberends: seems so.
mberends can't help it ;)
masak mberends: couldn't we just try to do it the Parrot way instead? 19:52
mberends yes, what way DYM?
masak everytime I complile Parrot, I see those SHA* modules swooshing by... 19:53
I don't know.
just thought Parrot might be of assistance here.
mberends will look, to kick the shelling habit
masak mberends: maybe just go ahead and shell out for the time being. :)
mberends++
19:54 lambdabot left
masak writing short term solution is OK in the short term, I guess. 19:54
s/ion/ions/
lambdabot: don't leave us! :/ 19:55
mberends Wand we'll pretend that the client-server connection is encrypted, because https is a big job for HTTP::Daemon right now.
s/and // 19:56
masak mberends: hokay.
mberends s/and w//
19:56 lambdabot joined
mberends does HTTP::Daemon contain a :D grin on your client too? 19:57
masak mberends: not that I've seen.
haven't looked, though. 19:58
masak looks
mberends mibbit gives :D a colorful smiley. Don't they know the rulez: Larry gets the colon!
masak mberends: ah, now I see what you're getting at. no, that's just Wrong. 19:59
whoever coded that can not have field-tested it for a serious discussion. 20:00
mberends looks ok on irclog, moritz_++
anyhow, yarn will need something similar to /etc/shadow to store hashed passwords, and then a list of current sessions with implausible-to-guess keys, which are handed between server and browser. Since POST is not yet going, embed the key in every url emitted. 20:03
each session must also have a TTL, a future time to autonecrify 20:05
20:05 usr joined
masak ...or get POST going. :) 20:05
November does POST.
usr hi 20:06
whats is perl6 ?
mberends but that's November on Apache, not yet HTTP::Daemon
masak usr: hello! welcome.
usr: it's like six different animals at once, glued together.
usr: also, it's a magnificent air balloon, taking you on the flight of your life. 20:07
mberends: no, but working on it.
mberends usr: it's the most fun you can have with a compiler!
masak ...unless you like to be barked at, in which case GHC is more fun. :)
mberends usr: where else can you nag the compiler builders to make it do what you really want? 20:08
masak usr: so, have you tried Rakudo yet? you can download it here: rakudo.org/ -- and it's free!
usr: if you order today, you'll get a free roller coaster! 20:09
usr heh
thank you guys
mberends no refunds though, if it dies on you :s
masak usr: you're quite welcome. have a nice evening. 20:10
no, we don't do refunds. we do rescue missions, though.
big, dangerous ones.
mberends oh yeah, and roadside repairs
masak and interventions. 20:11
rakudo: say "hi usr, I'm Perl 6!" 20:13
p6eval rakudo 95aab9: OUTPUTĀ«hi usr, I'm Perl 6!ā¤Ā»
mberends usr: unix or windows?
masak actually, they're all Perl 6: Pugs, Elf, smop, STD...
usr windows
masak oh, a windows usr! 20:14
finally, we can do those scientific experiments we've been waiting to do. :>
just kidding, some of my best friends are Windows users. 20:15
mberends wonders how comprehensive the Windows Getting Started docs are right now.
usr what os do you use?
masak Hurd. 20:16
eh, I mean Darwin.
mberends Debian. Many others use Ubuntu.
masak I have a computer with a partially digested fruit on it.
20:17 broquaint left
patmat Ubuntu \o/ 20:17
mberends eeeBuntu is also fun, runs Rakudo like a treat :)
masak patmat: oh, you're here too! great! \o/
patmat hehe hello masak :)) 20:18
masak patmat: how's it going with the Perl 6 learning curve?
20:18 ejs left
masak mberends: my $perl6lib = %*ENV<PWD> ~ '/lib'; # from your Configure.pm 20:18
mberends: this is actually untrue for yarn, which has one dep already. 20:19
patmat masak: hmm i'm still at learning, im doing..ok.. didnt have much time last days :/
masak mberends: what should I do?
mberends procedure in rakudo.org/how-to-get-rakudo is fully unix-centric
patmat true
masak patmat: I'm still at learning too. :/
patmat: I've been there for four years now, Perl 6-wise. 20:20
patmat wow that's a long time
masak patmat: I know. and there are people who keep changing things around!
that TimToady guy, for example. who does he think he is?
mberends masak: that $perl6lib has tunnel vision, must-improve-somehow(); 20:21
patmat woudl be great if the first stable version would come out soon ://
usr guys
masak mberends: I'm going to fix it now, one way or the other.
patmat changes are annoying, in the syntax.. the learn it again
usr perl6 isnt like a perl ?
masak mberends: just thought I'd discuss it first.
usr im newbie,please tell me
masak patmat: I'm mostly kidding, I love the change too. 20:22
mberends every perl6 so far has been perl
the design is still evolving
masak usr: it's like Perl, but it's a brand new Perl.
usr: don't expect everything to look the same.
usr so its a newest version of perl ?
mberends future perl 20:23
usr hm
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usr it isnt exist now? 20:23
masak mberends: suggestion: if PERL6LIB is already set, and already contains %*ENV<PWD> ~ '/lib', leave it as it is. otherwise, do what's done now.
usr future project of perl?
masak usr: yes, and no. and yes.
jnthn usr: Perl 6 is still under development. You can run the compiler as far as we've got it so far on Windows jsut fine, though. I run it on Windows all the time. :-)
masak usr: you can write Perl 6 today.
usr when it gonna to realise?
masak usr: Christmas. 20:24
dalek kudo: 67581ac | jnthn++ | src/classes/Code.pir:
Remove duplicate .count method, spotted by jhorwitz++.
usr masak heh
mberends usr: it's under construction, and we play with it while it's being built, and the builders need us to play with it to see if they're doing it ok.
usr i see 20:25
patmat its that everyday is christmas day, right masak? :P
+ojke
grr joke
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masak rakudo: say 'Christmas of ', (2009..2014).pick 20:25
p6eval rakudo 95aab9: OUTPUTĀ«Christmas of 2011ā¤Ā»
masak usr: there you go. straight from the horse's mouth.
jnthn usr: If you prefix anything with rakudo: then it gets run under the latest Rakudo Perl 6 compiler. 20:26
masak patmat: well, everyday is Christmas for me. I don't know about you. :)
patmat: I think somewhere around new years I started using Perl 6 every day. it's great.
usr is perl like linux ?
20:26 Eevee left
usr or there are diff 20:27
patmat huh?
like linux? :D
masak usr: it's open source like linux, if that's what you mean.
patmat Linux is an OS
mberends jnthn: what url can you give usr++ to install rakudo on windows?
patmat Perl6 is a programming language
usr i see
jnthn parrotwin32.wiki.sourceforge.net/ 20:30
You can get the parrot VM installer there, and then there are also downloads for the Perl 6 compiler as a kind of "add-on". 20:31
ah, sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.p..._id=211372 is a better link
jhorwitz: btw, if you missed in, removed duplicate count 20:32
*it
.oO( at least I mis-typed it, not count )
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masak rakudo: say 'foo'.index('bar').WHAT 20:36
p6eval rakudo 67581a: OUTPUTĀ«Failure()ā¤Ā»
masak Str.index is not really up to spec.
what's a good, future-proof way of making use of it?
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mberends index should be faster than $/.from when all the characters in a pattern are literals 20:38
masak which they are, in my case.
mberends kinda optimization 20:39
masak the only future-proof way I can come up with is saying something like %*ENV<PERL6LIB>.index(%*ENV<PWD> ~ '/lib') eq 'foo'.index('bar')
usr thank you guys
mberends but other languages would return False, or -1 or something less poisonous than Failure 20:40
usr you were very kind
masak if the first .index is a failure, it should stringify to the same thing as the second one.
usr: see you at Christmas!
mberends usr: please come back!
20:40 Eevee joined
usr it was my first visit on this network 20:40
masak usr: hopefully not your last.
mberends :)
usr nah not:)
masak \o/ 20:41
usr i have to learn many things from you:)
masak usr: and we from you, sir.
mberends: gist.github.com/109391 # what I ended up with 20:42
20:42 broquaint left
masak mberends: thinking of having that installed in proto's Configure.pm 20:42
what do you think?
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usr when i type /cs info #channelname does it show me all information about that channel ? 20:44
coz i can see just few lines
mberends usr: dunno, never tried. what info would interest you? 20:45
usr for example about channel description
mberends usr: the backlogs on irclog.perlgeek.de/perl6 are very useful 20:46
usr: it's probably not thoroughly documented. it's shaped dynamically by the participants. 20:47
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mberends masak: the code cries for golf, but if that was possible you would have found it already. 20:48
masak mberends: actually, I found a better way, I think. :)
if you reload the gist, you'll see it. 20:49
mberends :) masak++ boolify++
usr thanks mberends 20:50
i have to go now,sleeping:) its 1:50 here
mberends masak: the non-ternary way to golf it would be to use .subst to take the path out, then always append it. 20:51
usr jnthn:thank you too for useful links
jnthn Welcome. Have fun.
mberends usr: good night! where are you?
usr im from Azerbaijan
mberends Netherlands here :)
usr nice to meet you:) 20:52
mberends same to you, see you again soon.
masak that should be future-proof as well... hm.
or maybe not. what if the index is 0?
perl6: say ?( "foobar".index("foo") )
supposing it works, yes.
p6eval elf 26748: OUTPUTĀ«Use of uninitialized value in index at ./elf_h line 108.ā¤ā¤Ā»
..rakudo 67581a: OUTPUTĀ«0ā¤Ā»
..pugs: OUTPUTĀ«ā¤Ā»
masak usr: good night! 20:54
:(
usr g`night masak:)
see you all tomorrow 20:55
masak usr: dream about Perl 6 now!
mberends: another thing: we should really consider doing @*INC.unshift in Configure.pl instead of @*INC.push ... 20:56
mberends: I just understood why my changes haven't been working for the last 15 minutes... :/
20:57 Kisu left
mberends masak: svn.pugscode.org/pugs/docs/Perl6/Sp...ry/Str.pod says not found should not return Failure. 20:57
make ?
patmat usr bye bye! 20:59
masak mberends: actually, this order-of-dirs-in-PERL6LIB thing has been biting me increasingly often lately. it's a problem as soon as two modules at different paths have the same name.
mberends: åƹ. that's what I mean by Str.index not being up-to-spec.
mberends: well, no. last time I had the problem was with November, which has its own Test.pm.
mberends: oh, does Configure.pm still run 'make' automatically. I didn't know that...
mberends: not sure it's such a good idea.
mberends: (mainly because it's counter to Un*x ideology, I guess.) 21:00
mberends yes, @*INC.unshift is more correct.
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mberends masak: neighbours-broadband--; sometime around August we'll start saying use Test:auth<cpan:rakudo>; or similar 21:05
masak aye, that neighbour has an unrealiable broadband... 21:06
mberends and no helpdesk
masak and since I don't know which of my neighbours it is that provides the unreliable broadband, it's not so easy to know where to go and complain... 21:07
mberends can't remember which cartoon sent this up rather well 21:08
21:09 mberends left 21:10 mberends joined
mberends 'twas www.dilbert.com 21:11
masak doesn't surprise me. :)
moritz_ oh come on, rakudo doesn't build with current parrot. 21:15
/home/moritz/rakudo/parrot/parrot perl6_s1.pbc --target=pir src/gen_setting.pm > src/gen_setting.pir
masak mberends: can I have the pumpkin? 21:16
moritz_ /home/moritz/rakudo/parrot/parrot: symbol lookup error: /home/moritz/rakudo/parrot/runtime/parrot/dynext/perl6_group.so: undefined symbol: pobject_lives
make: *** [perl6.pbc] Error 127
off to bed now...
masak moritz_++
21:16 usr left
moritz_ Parrot_gc_mark_PObj_alive 21:17
Previously known as C<pobject_lives>.
might be a simple rename
mberends masak: sure :)
masak grabs it and runs
eeeee! 21:18
mberends
.oO( what's with that guy? )
 21:19
masak mberends: I think my sleep last night was of insufficient quality. 21:20
mberends Star Trek was that scary? 21:21
masak mberends: I... I don't think so, no. 21:22
mberends: but I sure had a lot on my mind after last night.
I only remember fragments of the night. at 1:30 I was up googling for "robotic arm". 21:23
PacoLinux moritz_: the same error here
moritz_ PacoLinux: I have a fix, testing...
masak no, it was "buying a robotic arm".
mberends "testing a robotic arm" 21:25
moritz_ really bed now &
mberends g'night, moritz_ 21:26
dalek kudo: 70c5195 | moritz++ | (4 files):
track changed parrot function name
kudo: 7d581a5 | moritz++ | src/pmc/objectref_pmc.template:
forgot one old function name
masak night, moritz_.
mberends: I had this idea that maybe it would be possible to get a robotic arm to pick up Lego pieces, and, you know, put them on other Lego pieces.
mberends beams 'n lintels, presumably 21:27
masak presumably, yes.
I think playing against a robotic arm driven by Perl 6 would be nice. 21:28
or at least I did at 1:30 last night.
mberends the robots that manipulate blocks without studs are far simpler and cheaper
PacoLinux moritz++ now compiles ok
mberends moritz_: make realsleep & 21:29
an electromagnet to pick pieces up would be the simplest 21:32
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masak hm. yes. 21:32
sounds like it might rotate freely, though. 21:33
orientation is important for lintels.
frettled mberends: *** No rule to make target `realsleep'. Stop.
masak frettled: that explains a lot. 21:34
mberends let's update Makefile.in
realsleep: 21:36
shutdown -h now
frettled uhm, is that such a good idea?
mberends ok, sudo make realsleep
no, it's a bad idea ;)
frettled realsleep: 21:37
hibernate
mberends frettled: yes, better
masak What Could Possibly Go Wrong?
frettled polar bears 21:38
mberends Windows
frettled (they snore)
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mberends sleeps, without a pumpkin this time 21:47
o/
21:47 mberends left
masak I didn't know he had the pumpkin in the bed. 21:57
I usually put it in the cupboard overnight.
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patmat sleep well guys :) 22:46
jnthn night, patmat 22:47
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TimToady fg 23:20
grr
jnthn :-)
Ooh, YAPC::Asia dates are confirmed! 23:22
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