»ö« | perl6-projects.org/ | nopaste: sial.org/pbot/perl6 | evalbot: 'perl6: say 3;' | irclog: irc.pugscode.org/ | UTF-8 is your friend!
Set by Tene on 14 May 2009.
ruoso that's the idea 00:00
DanielC Cool.
ruoso you can also use the less verbose syntax
@@a = :name<Daniel>, 2, 3, 4;
pmichaud ruoso: note that this week it was ruled that semilists will have to produce something different from comma-lists (which is a reversal of the previous week's decision)
DanielC Interesting. I didn't know any of this. 00:01
ruoso so plain infix:<,> won't produce named args
pmichaud, does that mean 00:02
@@a = (:name<Daniel>; 2; 3; 4);
will produce named member?
pmichaud I don't know in that case. The case that was discussed is @a[2;3;4] versus @a[2,3,4]
the 2;3;4 and 2,3,4 have to be distinguished somehow -- i.e., they can't both be the same kind of Capture 00:03
and according to S09 (to the extent that I understand it), the @@ syntax is for semilists
ruoso ah... ok... 00:04
pmichaud or "slices"
ruoso anyway... it'll take some time untill I get to implement that...
so this is not high-priority now...
pmichaud same here; but it does indicate that the kind-of-capture we get is dependent on the syntax used to create it. 00:05
I'm suspecting that may become true for named arguments and possibly invocants and array/hash flattening as well
(then again, it may not. TimToady will decide :-) 00:06
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ruoso DanielC, I just replied to your last mail... 00:24
DanielC hi 00:27
ruoso DanielC, I hope the explanation helps... my brain is not working properly right now 00:28
DanielC reads ruoso's email
What is a multi sub?
ruoso is a sub that have several variant implementations, each one with a signature... 00:29
DanielC Ok, I see in the email...
Interesting.
ruoso when you invoke a multi, it will invoke the code with the matching signature
DanielC That could make an interesting blog post. 00:30
ruoso please do it...
DanielC Sure.
ruoso my brain is not really working to write a proper text for posting
DanielC Are you sure you don't want to write it later when your brain is working again?
ruoso nah... then I'll have other stuff to take care of 00:31
DanielC ok
I'll write something, but probably not tomorrow. 00:32
ruoso DanielC, but did you understand how the code work?
after the explanation? 00:33
DanielC I'm still reading.
((5 rpn 4) rpn '+') rpn 3 ?
ruoso yes...
DanielC ah, I see how that works.
The second calls a different sub.
ruoso rakudo: multi infix:<BLA!> { say $^a ~ $^b }; 'A' BLA! 'B' 00:34
p6eval rakudo 97f141: ( no output )
ruoso rakudo: multi infix:<BLA> { say $^a ~ $^b }; 'A' BLA 'B'
p6eval rakudo 97f141: OUTPUT«AB␤»
ruoso DanielC, yes, because '+' won't match the first signature 00:35
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DanielC I think I understand the code now. 00:36
thanks for the explanation. 00:37
ruoso: Does .words do the right thing?
ruoso DanielC, I'll wait for your blog post now ;)
DanielC I mean, does it deal with "2+" correctly? 00:38
ruoso DanielC, it requires white spaces between the tokens
no, it doesn't
DanielC ok
Ok, I think I understand everything. 00:40
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ruoso cool... 00:41
ruoso sleep &
pasteling "ruoso" at 189.97.60.4 pasted "multi-reduce based RPN calculator, simplified code by grouping similar multi candidates" (32 lines, 741B) at sial.org/pbot/37098 00:45
ruoso DanielC, look the above paste... I think the code is better now
DanielC *click*
ok 00:46
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pasteling "ruoso" at 189.97.60.4 pasted "multi-reduce based RPN calculator, simplified the code even further, by adding an array to the arguments to [rpn]" (27 lines, 548B) at sial.org/pbot/37099 00:48
ruoso DanielC, better yet now
DanielC *click*
better 00:49
I think I like this one best.
pasteling "ruoso" at 189.97.60.4 pasted "multi-reduce based RPN calculator, the token being external to the signature was pretty useless now..." (26 lines, 528B) at sial.org/pbot/37100 00:50
00:51 Whiteknight joined
ruoso really sleep & 00:51
DanielC, I think that was the last one now... 00:52
DanielC ok
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pasteling "japhb" at 76.191.190.8 pasted "ruoso: golfed your previous multi RPN calculator using 'do given'" (23 lines, 500B) at sial.org/pbot/37101 05:36
japhb ruoso: "There ain't no such thing as the [best] code." 05:39
:-)
pugs_svn r27014 | pmichaud++ | [t/spec]: want clarifications on .exists in exists.t 05:48
japhb rakudo: multi infix:<foo> ($a, $b) { say eval "$a + $b" }; my ($a, $b) = 1, 2; $a foo $b 05:59
p6eval rakudo 97f141: OUTPUT«Lexical '$!' not found␤in sub infix:foo (/tmp/mbOdZk8Bqx:2)␤called from Main (/tmp/mbOdZk8Bqx:2)␤»
japhb Bug?
literal it's interesting that Scala has $_ (except they call it _ since they don't have sigils) 06:00
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literal are there any other mainstream languages which have "it" ? 06:00
japhb literal: several have the concept of setting a topic, but they often allow "it" to be completely invisible. 06:01
(I'm thinking of syntax like 'with' or 'using' that allows a long expression returning an object to set the current topic, and have all method calls within the scope of the 'with' or 'using' that do not specify an invocant to implicitly use the topic as invocant.) 06:03
Not unlike, say ... given. :-) 06:04
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Infinoid I don't know how "mainstream" you'd consider sed to be, but I think that's probably where perl got it 06:22
pasteling "japhb" at 76.191.190.8 pasted "ruoso: Further tweak; now @*ARGS need not be quoted (except for '*' on unix-like systems, of course)" (23 lines, 500B) at sial.org/pbot/37102
japhb Infinoid: given that sed still infects vast numbers of shell scripts, it's at least mainstream-ish. :-) 06:23
dalek kudo: d90577b | pmichaud++ | (7 files):
Refactor postcircumfix:<[ ]> and Whatever handling.
 06:24
Infinoid Hooray for perl -pe 06:26
japhb How do I get the invokable for a particular multi? In other words, how do I get the Num/Num variant of infix:<+>? 06:27
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japhb I wonder where the perl -p0le is? 06:30
Wherever $Larry currently lives?
06:39 david__ left
finanalyst i am getting "no ICU lib loaded 06:40
in method Perl6Pair::perl (src/gen_setting.pm:1244)"
the code was working a few days ago 06:41
anyone come across this?
what is the ICU lib? 06:42
mberends unicode
finanalyst ahhhh. then .perl has stopped liking unicode
japhb finanalyst: I would read that as wanting ICU before fighting with Unicode. 06:43
mberends "International Components for Unicode" from Debian description
finanalyst rakudo: my $x='привет'; say $x.perl 06:44
p6eval rakudo 97f141: OUTPUT«"привет"␤»
japhb ICU used to be optional, though strongly suggested. May still be the case, I dunno. But I've always been in the "Sheesh, just require it already!" camp. Maybe that camp finally won. :-)
finanalyst why does the above snippet work here, but not locally for me? 06:45
previously, all versions of rakudo worked nicely with unicode without any options 06:46
japhb I would guess that the evalbot is running on a box with ICU installed. 06:47
mberends finanalyst: look for icu in the output of 'perl Configure.pl'
japhb rakudo: say %*VM<config><has_icu> 06:49
p6eval rakudo 97f141: OUTPUT«sh: ./perl6: No such file or directory␤»
japhb OK, that I didn't expect. 06:50
finanalyst i have already run that. I get Config.pl to give output again?
s/that/perl Configure.pl/
japhb finanalyst: Just run this: perl6 -e 'say %*VM<config><has_icu>'
japhb wonders why evalbot does the wrong thing 06:51
mberends oh, perl Configure.pl produces very little output now, even after a realclean
finanalyst japhb: your oneliner does work 06:52
sorry my local perl6 has gone walk-about. 06:53
just run into a problem. Pulled latest version rakudo. run perl Configure.pl --gen-parrot. then make. Got: 06:56
make: *** No rule to make target `src/classes/WhateverCode.pir', needed by `perl6_s1.pbc'. Stop.
help! 06:57
mberends ditto here :(
06:58 viklund joined
finanalyst yesterday pm and timtoady talking about WhateverCode 06:58
mberends yes, git log shows Whatever changed 06:59
finanalyst how do i go back to a previous version using git? 07:01
mberends reads git help reset
07:02 david__ joined 07:04 beggars joined
mberends tests git reset --soft HEAD^ 07:04
mberends sees that the problem remains 07:05
japhb pmichaud: still awake? 07:07
finanalyst pm probably not woken up 07:08
japhb finanalyst: he pushed a commit about 45 minutes ago, I figured he might still be around ....
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finanalyst i am now without working rakudo :( 07:09
mberends finanalyst: after 'git reset --soft HEAD^' did not help, 'git reset --hard HEAD^' did. Not sure if the second step must be preceded by the first. It works here. 07:11
finanalyst trying to reset 07:12
mberends: thanx 07:16
any idea how to get ICU lib loaded?
is it a parrot lib, or is it part of the environment? 07:17
japhb finanalyst: what OS are you using?
finanalyst ubuntu
07:18 amoc__ joined
finanalyst rakudo: say 'фывфыэ'.perl 07:18
p6eval rakudo 97f141: OUTPUT«sh: ./perl6: No such file or directory␤»
mberends not offhand. in either Configure.pl or Makefile, probably
japhb finanalyst: aptitude install libicu-dev
Then reconfigure/regen Rakudo and Parrot.
finanalyst rakudo: my $x='фывфывфыэ'; say $x.perl
p6eval rakudo 97f141: OUTPUT«sh: ./perl6: No such file or directory␤»
japhb rakudo: %*VM<config><has_icu>.say 07:19
p6eval rakudo 97f141: OUTPUT«sh: ./perl6: No such file or directory␤»
finanalyst rakudo: my $x='привет'; say $x.perl
p6eval rakudo 97f141: OUTPUT«sh: ./perl6: No such file or directory␤»
japhb Ah! I know what's going on!
finanalyst evalbot has changed
japhb evalbot is running into the same thing you guys are.
finanalyst that snippet worked at 10.44 (my time. its not 11.19) 07:20
s/now/now
japhb Hmmm. Years ago we had an evalbot that would notice a failed build and keep the old one around. Would be a nice feature for the current one to support.
Especially if it piped up to report a buildfail.
mberends seeya later! 07:24
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pmurias is :(|$foo,|$bar) legal? 09:48
araujo in some states 09:49
pmurias :)
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pugs_svn r27015 | pmurias++ | [re-smop] mildew emits named readonly parameters correctly (lack runtime 10:26
r27015 | pmurias++ | support)
r27016 | pmurias++ | [re-smop] added --target-stage option to mildew
r27017 | pmurias++ | [re-smop]
r27017 | pmurias++ | added :(|$capture)
r27017 | pmurias++ | --target-stage 2 is the default
10:27 amoc joined 10:29 bsb left
DanielC Are the characters // (two slashes) already used for something? I want to make a new function infix:<//> 10:29
my Rational $rat = 3 // 4; # <-- new Rational type. 10:30
pochi I think it might be the same as in perl5
ie. return the first defined value 10:31
DanielC Remind me, what was it in perl5 ?
?
I'm talking about // not || 10:32
pochi yes, //
|| only returns the first true value
DanielC ah
rakudo: my $a = $b // 3;
p6eval rakudo 97f141: OUTPUT«sh: ./perl6: No such file or directory␤»
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DanielC WTF 10:32
pochi current HEAD doesnt compile :/ 10:33
DanielC :(
pochi here, "my $b // 3" returns "3" 10:34
DanielC thanks 10:35
So it's taken.
pochi I think most operators are defined in src/parser/grammar-oper.pg
DanielC thanks
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DanielC "div" seems to be available, but "over" seems to be taken (but I don't know what it means. 10:36
)
pochi where did you find "over"? 10:37
DanielC perl6 -e '3 over 4'
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pochi not worky here 10:37
DanielC It gave an error that suggested that "over" made sense.
pochi ah
DanielC It gives a different error than perl6 -e '3 div 4' 10:38
pochi "over" is not listed in grammar-oper
"div" is defined there however
DanielC That other error suggests "I don't know what div is"
pochi perl6 -e '3 abcdef 4' gives the same error as "over"
and Im pretty sure there is no abcdef operator :) 10:39
DanielC Interesting. So maybe "iv" is the one that is defined.
pochi i think so
DanielC perl6 -e '3 zygomrf_fuck_you 4' <-- gives the same error as "over" and I sure hope *that* method does not exist. 10:40
pochi aye
DanielC Thanks for the help.
I'm planning to play a little with types.
I want to do: my Rational ($a,$b) = (2 over 3, 3 over 4); say $a + $b; And have that do the right thing. 10:41
pochi should be possible I think 10:42
DanielC I think it should be.
afk & 10:44
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finanalyst rakudo: my $x=5; say map { .say }, ^$x 11:01
p6eval rakudo 97f141: OUTPUT«sh: ./perl6: No such file or directory␤»
finanalyst evalbot still down? 11:02
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pugs_svn r27018 | pmurias++ | [re-mildew] fix tests 11:13
masak I must be blind -- I see "Running grants (2009 - VIII)" on news.perlfoundation.org , and then nothing for a long time, and then "Running grants (2009 - XI)". where did IX and X go? 11:20
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mberends masak: dey musta been naughty children 11:24
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masak mberends: I'm not at the point where I feel I can draw conclusions yet, but I've repeatedly felt a bit... cheated on the meta-summaries. 11:24
last time, the grant manager was ill, and we reluctantly compromised by retroactively changing the summary of activity, not to the actual activity, but to 'grant manager was ill'. 11:25
rakudo: 1.Str.say 11:26
p6eval rakudo 97f141: OUTPUT«sh: ./perl6: No such file or directory␤»
masak gnarl. 11:27
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pochi seems the WhateverCode.pir file is missing 11:28
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mberends masak: do you have the git-fu (and courage) to do a 'git reset --hard HEAD^' on evalbot? 11:30
masak git-fu yes, courage dunno. :)
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masak what happened? 11:30
mberends the last commit from pmichaud++ broke rakudo 11:31
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masak oh. 11:32
masak checks
viklund getting karma for breaking HEAD, interesting... 11:33
masak mberends: not sure the solution is git reset --hard HEAD^, then. 11:34
since it affects not just evalbot, but everyone.
maybe I should just revert the commit.
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masak I have now confirmed that Rakudo is broken in HEAD. 11:34
reverting commit and rebuilding.
hm, seems to be an uncommitted file by pmichaud++. 11:35
mberends masak: yes, the reset is a local solution, but you can summon the courage to do it for everyone (Dutch courage is no good for this) 11:39
viklund: see, even more karma ;) 11:40
masak mberends: no, I've just established that it fails to build with the latest commit, and builds without it.
no courage required to revert that. :) 11:41
there, pushed.
lichtkind mberends: most parts of appendix B are now english 11:43
DanielC class Foo { has $!a; has $.b } <-- $!a is private, $.b is public but read-only. How do you make a class property that is read-write?
masak DanielC: has $.b is rw;
viklund ;)
DanielC masak: thanks 11:44
dalek kudo: 290012a | masak++ | (7 files):
Revert "Refactor postcircumfix:<[ ]> and Whatever handling."

to have been an uncommitted file src/classes/WhateverCode.pir that prevented build.
masak DanielC: and they're not called 'class property', but 'attribute'.
DanielC masak: ok
masak DanielC: mixing in the 'class' modifier here is confusing, because that can be interpreted as 'belonging to the whole class, not to particular object instances'
DanielC ok 11:45
Yes, just saying "attribute" is less ambiguous.
masak DanielC: also, using 'is rw' is discouraged -- not from a Perl 6 perspective, but from an OOD perspective. :) 11:46
actually, in Perl 5, it has been more or less OK, but in the Java community it's a no-no.
unless you're writing GUI widgets and worry about speed. :P
DanielC masak: What is OOD? I only know OOP... typo? Anyways, I'm sure that it's a bad idea, I just wanted to know how to do it. 11:47
masak DanielC: ...Design.
DanielC ah
masak DanielC: you can also make private attributes readonly with 'is readonly'. 11:48
DanielC class Foo { has Int $.a } # <-- Is this correct?
(the type)
masak aye.
DanielC thanks
masak rakudo: class Foo { has Int $.a }; say Foo.new( :a(42) ).a 11:49
p6eval rakudo 290012: OUTPUT«42␤»
masak rakudo: 1.Str.say
p6eval rakudo 290012: OUTPUT«Int()<0xb61f5450>␤»
masak submits rakudobug
phenny: tell pmichaud I reverted your d90577 commit, because there seems to have been an uncommitted file src/classes/WhateverCode.pir preventing build. 11:51
phenny masak: I'll pass that on when pmichaud is around.
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clintongormley masak: You said "using 'is rw' is discouraged" - but surely some attributes need to be rw 11:54
masak clintongormley: why?
clintongormley i create a new $payment
send for processing
received $dollars 11:55
update $payment.received
and $payment.status
am i missing something?
11:55 Chillance left
masak clintongormley: oh, I was too vague. I meant "using 'is rw' on public attributes is discouraged" 11:55
clintongormley oh ok
masak because it exposes too much of the guts of the class.
making it harder to change the API later. 11:56
clintongormley so is a public attribute not marked rw modifiable by the class itself? or a subclass?
clintongormley doesn't use Moose btw, just plain ol' vanilla perl5 OO 11:57
masak clintongormley: right. public attributes are readonly by default. 11:58
clintongormley masak: but it is modifiable by the class or subclass? 11:59
masak clintongormley: ah. every public attribute has an underlying private attribute, which is modifieable from inside the class.
and from inside subclasses.
clintongormley ahhh right - thanks
i need to take a couple of weeks and learn about the Moose paradigm 12:00
masak actually, the 'public attribute' is just a way to automatically generate a read accessor -- a getter.
clintongormley right
masak clintongormley: aye, I should do that too. :)
clintongormley i see so many people praising its virtues, but the bugger is that I have a laaarge code base that I don't even want to consider converting 12:01
masak then don't.
clintongormley so i'm scared i might like it too much :)
I've got an application framework (called Burro, cos 'it does the hard work for you') 12:02
which is my version of DBIx::Class, Catalyst, plus a number of other things
some bits are really good
and others are crufty
but i wrote it before those others were of much use
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clintongormley one of these days i'm going to have to replace the crufty bits with the good bits from those others 12:03
of course, i've made sure that the framework is almost entirely devoid of tests, so I'll get no nasty test failures when I do finally convert 12:04
lichtkind mberends: operator table in social wiki is nealry impossible 12:05
mberends lichtkind: :(
lichtkind mberends: but please have a kook at appendix when im finished in a minute
masak lichtkind: I'll have a kook too if you post the URL. 12:07
lichtkind masak: in a minute 12:09
viklund_ rakudo: say "I'm online*
rakudo: say "I'm online" 12:10
p6eval rakudo 290012: OUTPUT«say requires an argument at line 2, near " \"I'm onli"␤in Main (src/gen_setting.pm:2417)␤»
rakudo 290012: OUTPUT«I'm online␤»
viklund_ masak++
DanielC Is + a multi-function? In other words, can I define 'multi sub infix:<+> (Rational $a, Rational $b)' to make a custom + function for my personal "Rational" type?
viklund_ DanielC: yes, I thinks so
masak DanielC: aye.
DanielC cool
viklund_ otherwise you can't use it for your own types
DanielC Perl 6 rocks.
masak DanielC: all core subs and methods are multi.
DanielC thanks 12:11
viklund_ $matrix1 + $matrix2
masak DanielC: _and_ it mostly just works in Rakudo today, so fire away. 12:12
DanielC :-)
I'm writing a blog post about Perl 6's cool type system.
Multi functions are part of that. 12:13
masak DanielC: they are indeed.
lichtkind masak: www.perlfoundation.org/perl6/index....okup_table
masak lichtkind: nice work. 12:15
lichtkind masak: thanks i should had started that years before in english too
masak lichtkind: it's possible that I might want something very much like this for u4x too... 12:16
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lichtkind masak: whats the direct purpose of u4x? 12:19
masak lichtkind: I explain it quite clearly in use.perl.org/~masak/journal/38279
(the latter part)
"Our official goal shall be to provide easy-to-access comprehensive user documentation, through a ridiculously easy-to-access command line tool, providing snippets of Perl 6 clarification so perfectly worded and so brilliantly illustrative that the unsuspecting reader will be brought close to tears." 12:20
lichtkind masak: aimed to p5 enviroment? 12:23
masak no, p6.
(hence 'for Christmas')
lichtkind masak: good because there is already Perl6::Doc, which i maintain btw 12:24
masak glad to hear that.
lichtkind masak: thatswhy we couuld sync a bit
masak absolutely.
ok, time for lunch. 12:27
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lichtkind cu 12:27
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jnthn o/ 13:22
DanielC moin
finanalyst hi
DanielC good afternoon.. actually
DanielC has the habit of saying "moin" any time of day. 13:23
finanalyst how do i do a do a file test. spec says $file.:X but that doesnt seem to work
rakudo: 'README'.:f 13:24
jnthn rakudo: say "perl6" ~~ :e;
p6eval rakudo 290012: OUTPUT«Multiple Dispatch: No suitable candidate found for 'concatenate_str', with signature 'PSP->P'␤in Main (src/gen_setting.pm:1303)␤»
rakudo 290012: OUTPUT«1␤»
jnthn rakudo: say "perl6" ~~ :f; say "perl6" ~~ :d; 13:25
p6eval rakudo 290012: OUTPUT«1␤0␤»
jnthn ako to
finanalyst rakudo: say 'README' ~~ :f 13:26
p6eval rakudo 290012: OUTPUT«1␤»
finanalyst thanx
jnthn rakudo: say "the-completed-perl-6-spec" ~~ :e
p6eval rakudo 290012: OUTPUT«0␤»
jnthn aww
finanalyst rakudo: say 'README' ~~ :r 13:28
p6eval rakudo 290012: OUTPUT«Method ':r' not found for invocant of class 'Str'␤»
finanalyst not all the tests seem to have been implemented
jnthn maybe not, no 13:33
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pmurias what's a good place to start a GSoC blog at? 14:13
payload own server with a omgblog ^^ 14:17
pugs_svn r27019 | lwall++ | [STD] adverbs now produce a real node like a postfix 14:26
r27019 | lwall++ | [STD] precedence of adverbs changes to inside item_assignment
r27019 | lwall++ | [viv] properly translate :delete and :exists to p5
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pugs_svn r27020 | pmurias++ | [re-smop] 14:32
r27020 | pmurias++ | removed some backtracking from m0ld so that it has better error messages
r27020 | pmurias++ | the $reg = $invocant.(|$capture) form is not yet ported over
r27021 | pmurias++ | [re-smop] readonly named params are supported in new Signatures 14:33
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pmichaud ....okay, how do I get my commits back? 14:49
phenny pmichaud: 11:51Z <masak> tell pmichaud I reverted your d90577 commit, because there seems to have been an uncommitted file src/classes/WhateverCode.pir preventing build.
mberends er, shift-ctrl-Z ? 14:51
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pmichaud foudn it. 14:55
fixing.
mberends \o/
there are quite a lot of TODO passes on spectest as well
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pmichaud yes. Some of the recent changes we've made have caused TODO tests to pass, but we haven't gotten around to unfudging them yet. 14:56
dalek kudo: b776b07 | pmichaud++ | (8 files):
Refactor postcircumfix:<[ ]> and Whatever handling -- attempt #2.
jnthn Reverting the reverted. :-) 14:57
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DanielC Hi. Can someone explain to a dummy what exactly a lexical variable? (ie. "my") How is it different from the local variables you see in other languages? 15:04
pmichaud rakudo: my $x = * - 2; say $x(5); 15:05
p6eval rakudo 290012: OUTPUT«Use of uninitialized value␤invoke() not implemented in class 'Float'␤in Main (/tmp/8eBK7QdKmq:2)␤»
jnthn pmichaud: Old Rakudo? 15:07
skids_ DanielC: lexical refers to the text file that is your program. A lexical is only valid over a certain section of that text file. Like between two curlies, usually.
pmichaud I'm thinking it hasn't updated yet.
rakudo: my $x = * - 2; say $x(5);
p6eval rakudo 290012: OUTPUT«Use of uninitialized value␤invoke() not implemented in class 'Float'␤in Main (/tmp/5iwN8877O0:2)␤»
lichtkind mberends: i added bit navigation 15:08
pmichaud pmichaud@orange:~/rakudo$ ./perl6
> my $x = * - 2; say $x(5);
3
DanielC skids_: That sounds a lot like a "local" variable. Is there a difference you can think of?
lambdabot <no location info>: parse error on input `='
lichtkind mberends: im off now
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skids_ DanialC: "local" in what vernacular? 15:12
pugs_svn r27022 | pmichaud++ | [t/spec]: Fudge unicode method names. Unfudge unicode named parameters.
DanielC skids_: I think that in most programming languages a local variable is one that is only available inside a function.
pmichaud DanielC: yes, lexical variables generally correspond to the idea of local variables.
DanielC pmichaud: It seems odd that Perl would choose the word "lexical" for them. I was curious as to what else "lexical" implies. 15:13
The word "lexical" on its own means little to me. A lexicon is a vocabulary. Clearly that has nothing to do with scoping. 15:14
skids_ I think it's because perl5 had a "local" variable, different from "my".
DanielC In Perl 5 I always stayed away from "local" variables because I never felt I quite understood them. Whereas I feel I always know what "my" variables do. 15:15
pmichaud the term "lexical" refers more to scope than the variable itself. 15:16
Basically, it's the scope that can be determined from statically looking at the nesting of blocks in the source.
15:16 _Chillance_ left
DanielC ok... 15:17
skids_ perl5's "local" was, in contrast, dynamically scoped
DanielC Does the word "lexical" actually come from somewhere. It doesn't seem to come from "lexicon" (unless I'm confused and I don't know what "lexicon" means). 15:18
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antiphase wonders where the word "word" comes from 15:19
skids_ lexical I think comes from rules|law and is usually used to refer to rules of grammar.
DanielC ok 15:20
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takadonet hey everyone 15:20
skids_ So it's referring to the fact that the scope is confined entirely when the program is parsed -- the program does not need to be run in order to determine where the variable is valid.
jnthn hi takadonet 15:21
pmichaud “Lexical scope” in general is the idea that
* an identifier at a particular place in a program always refers to the same variable location — where “always” means “every time that the containing expression is executed”, and that
* the variable location to which it refers can be detemined by static examination of the source code context in which that identifier appears, without having to consider the flow of execution through the program as ga whole.
DanielC skids_: AH! That actually makes sense... Scoping is dictated by the rules/grammar of the language => defined at compile time.
pmichaud www.gnu.org/software/guile/manual/h...Scope.html
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DanielC *click* 15:22
pmichaud the rest of the page may be more confusing than helpful.
15:22 feyner_ left
pmichaud foldoc.org/lexical # might be a bit more helpful 15:23
skids_ Whereas "dynamic" scope is determined at runtime. So it requires electricity :-)
DanielC *click*
pmichaud/skids_: Thanks a lot. 15:25
I realize I was asking a somewhat difficult question.
pmichaud rakudo: my $x = * - 2; say $x(3);
p6eval rakudo 290012: OUTPUT«Use of uninitialized value␤invoke() not implemented in class 'Float'␤in Main (/tmp/LhbvVLCOWV:2)␤»
pmichaud hmmpf.
pmichaud shakes the p6eval bot.... "Wake up!" 15:27
pugs_svn r27023 | pmichaud++ | [t/spec]: Unfudge a passing todo. 15:28
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takadonet join #perl 15:30
...
sorry 15:31
skids_ pmichaud: www.youtube.com/watch?v=_nJtd0Ua8sQ # for use in evalbot shaking
pugs_svn r27024 | pmichaud++ | [t/spec]: Unfudge some tests with my $x = * - 1; 15:33
pmichaud rakudo: my $x = * - 2; say $x(3); 15:37
p6eval rakudo 290012: OUTPUT«Use of uninitialized value␤invoke() not implemented in class 'Float'␤in Main (/tmp/G3TmnkVWG6:2)␤»
pmichaud oh, perhaps I didn't push?
no, I pushed. 15:38
hrm.
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pugs_svn r27025 | pmichaud++ | [t/spec]: Unfudge passing todo test (jnthn++) 15:44
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pugs_svn r27026 | pmichaud++ | [t/spec]: Some unfudging and re-fudging for rakudo. 16:02
mberends lichtkind: (wiki navigation)++ 16:03
pugs_svn r27027 | pmichaud++ | [t/spec]: More unfudging for rakudo. 16:07
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pugs_svn r27028 | pmichaud++ | [t/spec] More rakudo fudge cleanups. 17:27
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masak DanielC: (from backlog) actually, 'moin' has nothing to do with the time of day. it's from a Frisian word meaning 'beautiful'. de.wiktionary.org/wiki/moin 17:39
DanielC masak: Really? I thought it was short for morning.
masak yes, so did I for a while.
clintongormley .oO ("Oh what a beautiful moooornniiiing, oh what a beautiful day!" ) 17:42
mberends moinmo.in/Documentation :) 17:44
jnthn masak: Interesting blog post, I had kinda pondered the same thing...
masak jnthn: thank you. :) yes, it's on my mind a lot.
jnthn: an early version of that post held a reference to your 's and m' joke... :P
jnthn Oh noes!
masak jnthn: (which was not at all sexist, of course, but tactful and subtle) 17:45
jnthn What happens in Oslo, stays in Olso. ;-)
masak 哈哈
jnthn Actually (honestly) I wrote the slide title *and* the slide and it wasn't until the first time I said it out loud when giving the talk (I forget where) that I was like "oh..."
Actually nobody noticed either. :-) 17:46
masak :)
I think on that level, it's perfectly acceptable.
only those who have sufficiently dirty minds (like me) notice.
jnthn What are you saying about NPW attendees? ;-) 17:47
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masak jnthn: well, far as I recall, only pmichaud and I laughed loudly... :) 17:47
jnthn :-)
masak the rest are obviously very pure of mind and spirit. :P 17:48
jnthn Ah well, it lives on in the slides...
And hey, I can always claim it's a reference to the Metallica album. ;-)
masak :)
jnthn I just can't imagine giving a talk with pr0n in though. I'd kinda just not dare. 17:49
masak personally, I think it wasn't very tastefully done.
but Peter Szinek is right, that's not the main issue. 17:50
the presenter didn't apologise, but defended his presentation, saying he didn't think it was offensive. but that's not the main issue either. 17:51
the main issue is that large parts of the community then defend and encourage him.
jnthn I guess everyone in a community is part of the effort to shape it. 17:53
masak here in the Perl 6 community, we don't have the same proportion of women to offend, but I still don't think there's much of a danger that such a thing could happen. it wouldn't get to step 1 (the presentation), much less to step 3 (community stubbornly defending presenter)
jnthn: aye. 17:54
that's my thesis too.
jnthn And if that's the shape of community some people want, well, I'm not sure it's a shape I like, but it's kinda going to be the outcome...
Or at least, if it's what a large part want.
Which I guess is your point. Well all need to be thoughtful about the community norms we're introducing, and the boundaries we're contributing to setting. 17:55
s/Well/We/
masak aye.
jnthn I'm encouraged by the shape the Perl 6 community is taking so far. 17:56
I suspect part of it is that we all know it's small and know more people involved = good thing.
masak I've tried to introduce code reviews. I'm still eagerly waiting for the first code review not written by me. :) expect to have to do a few more code reviews before that happens.
mberends masak: I'll review Druid when you feel it's ready 17:57
jnthn I think code review happens on a more informal basis sometimes too.
masak mberends: nice! it'll be ready after it gets SVG. 17:58
jnthn e.g. when somebody feeds something to p6eval or nopastes some code and folks point out "oh btw, you can do it better by doing X"
I'm not sure if you count that as code review, but I kinda do.
masak jnthn: I'm talking about the formal kind. reviewing the code like one reviews a piece of literature.
jnthn OK. 17:59
masak the informal kind is important too, of course.
jnthn Yes, I think both have value.
masak but I mean this: use.perl.org/~masak/journal/38643
jnthn I actually in $not-perl6-job get asked to do code reviews now and then too.
masak yes, same here. 18:00
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jnthn It's interesting, though in a lot of what I've seen also sometimes depressing. 18:00
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masak I don't doubt it. 18:00
jnthn Particularly when you code review something in version 1, then code review the re-write that was meant to make things better and notice it's an epic security fail. 18:01
masak mberends: you've spurred me to implement SVG in Druid. that'll probably be my project for the evening. :)
jnthn (Whereas the original had some issues but was generally not so bad in that angle.)
masak jnthn: ouch. :/
jnthn Yeah. It's hard to write a...kind...review in that situation.
I rather suspect the quality of Perl 6 code floating around is rather higher though. :-) 18:02
At least, the bits I've seen are often encouraging.
But I think that's again a community thing: aesthetics are valued. 18:03
viklund_ Hurray! I can send bugreports!! 18:04
masak viklund_: you mean 'bug reportz' :)
viklund_ sry
masak np. :)
viklund_ Huzzah! I can haz bugz zent!!
masak much better. 18:05
I've only done one review so far, but that code was OK, and mostly well-written.
I have three reviews queued up: PGE, the spectest suite, and STD.pm.
anyway, I should get going. 18:07
need to eat supper.
jnthn Aye, I need dinner...think I'll pop over to the curry place.
And order something hot. Try and kill this pesky cold off. :-/
masak I have home-baked bread. mmm.
jnthn That requires skill. :-)
masak actually, no, not much. 18:08
jnthn You have a bread machine or do it all by hand?
masak by hand.
jnthn Wow. :-)
masak stop being impressed! it's like, really easy! :)
jnthn Yeah yeah ;-) 18:09
masak but actually taking the time to do it is very rewarding.
jnthn Yes, I can appreciate that. I do like spending time cooking something.
It's something different than sitting hacking.
masak indeed. 18:10
jnthn Anyways, food time...cu
masak o/
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alester ping masak 18:23
RATS
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pugs_svn r27029 | pmichaud++ | Cleanup fudging of .lines and .get. 18:35
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dalek kudo: f7b42bc | pmichaud++ | src/setting/IO.pm:
Fix up .get and .lines to handle eof more properly.
 18:39
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pmichaud 17:47 <masak> jnthn: well, far as I recall, only pmichaud and I laughed loudly... :) 18:50
what did I laugh about...?
s1n damn, i always seem to miss masak 18:51
phenny s1n: 05 Jun 10:22Z <masak> tell s1n maybe it might be a better idea to do the Dallas.p6m announcements on perl6-users? p6l is more for language discussion, p6u more for community discussion...
viklund some joke jnthn by misstake made on npw about m' and s'...
s1n how do i use phenny to leave a message?
viklund I wasn't there so I don
don't know
pmichaud oh. My laugh tends to be fairly distinctive (and loud), though. 18:52
s1n it takes work to make pmichaud laugh though :)
viklund s1n: my guess is that you just say 'tell $name $message' 18:53
tell s1n this is a test ;)
s1n test
mberends phenny: tell s1n this is how to leave a message
phenny mberends: I'll pass that on when s1n is around.
ascent_ phenny: msg for s1n test
viklund oh well... 18:54
mberends s1n: hi
s1n mberends: hi
phenny s1n: 18:53Z <mberends> tell s1n this is how to leave a message
s1n ahhh mberends wins the prize :)
phenny: tell masak the june invite was the last one on p6l (hence the "don't want to pester p6l" note). i set up a ml for just this monger group and will take your advice and use p6u for july. 18:56
phenny s1n: I'll pass that on when masak is around.
s1n yay
pmichaud: remember, it starts at 7 :)
pmichaud oh, I've got it on my calendar
I was late last time because I had to wait for my wife to get home before I could leave. 18:57
s1n just giving you crap :)
pmichaud just taking it. :)
s1n pmichaud: so i was thinking of an idea, wanted your take on this
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s1n every meeting, i want to pick 1 feature of perl6 and have someone explain it and then we can all hack on it and play with it 18:58
pmichaud sounsd great to me
s1n i liked the whole sub thing from last month
do you have any ideas for this month?
pmichaud btw, the method calls are now fixed :-)
$.foo(args) now works properly 18:59
s1n pmichaud: which method calls? $.method?
pmichaud yes.
s1n ahh yeah, saw that
pmichaud well, I can always come up with ideas of things to highlight, but in many ways I prefer to have someone else come up with a topic that's interesting to them
especially if there are confusing items, like last month 19:00
s1n well, all of them are interesting to me, just not sure which i know well enough to explain
pmichaud oh, I'll be glad to explain them :-)
unless the point is to get others to do the explanin
s1n well, it'd be nice if we could take turns
pmichaud sure, I'm always glad to give others the spotlight 19:01
but if someone has a topic they'd like explained, I'm happy to be the explainer
s1n pmichaud: if you give me a topic, i'll do my homework :)
pmichaud I'd ask the list for a topic
s1n good idea
pmichaud any topics I'd want to have explained would be likely tough :-)
s1n nature of the beast 19:02
everything easy has already been done
s1n has to go work on cleaning garage 19:03
chores&
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pmichaud rakudo: my $x = * - 5; say $x(8); 19:45
p6eval rakudo f7b42b: OUTPUT«3␤» 19:46
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pmichaud rakudo: my $x = * / 3 + 4; say $x(15); 19:46
p6eval rakudo f7b42b: OUTPUT«9␤»
pmichaud \o/
rakudo: my @a = <a b c d e f g>; say @a[*-5..*-2].perl; 19:47
p6eval rakudo f7b42b: OUTPUT«["c", "d", "e", "f"]␤»
jnthn pmichaud++
pmichaud: Is it doing it off syntax now? 19:48
pmichaud no.
jnthn Or multi-dispatch?
OK
pmichaud multi-dispatch, mainly.
jnthn I think that one stays as multi though...
And it's *.foo that changes.
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pmichaud rakudo: say +$*IN.lines; 19:49
p6eval rakudo f7b42b: OUTPUT«23␤»
pmichaud rakudo: my $i = 0; while defined($*IN.get) { $i++; }; say $i; 19:50
p6eval rakudo f7b42b: OUTPUT«23␤»
pmichaud rakudo: for lines() { say .substr(1,1); } 19:52
p6eval rakudo f7b42b: OUTPUT«No applicable candidates found to dispatch to for 'lines'␤in Main (/tmp/e5FVf6AxeI:2)␤»
pmichaud rakudo: for $*IN.lines { say .substr(1,1); }
p6eval rakudo f7b42b: OUTPUT«a␤a␤a␤e␤o␤i␤i␤Cannot take substr outside string␤␤e␤i␤i␤a␤o␤i␤i␤Cannot take substr outside string␤␤u»
pmichaud rakudo: for $*IN.lines { say .substr(0,1); }
p6eval rakudo f7b42b: OUTPUT«L␤L␤L␤H␤V␤v␤v␤␤H␤l␤e␤H␤h␤v␤v␤␤M␤f␤»
pmichaud rakudo: for $*IN.lines { say .substr(0,1); }
p6eval rakudo f7b42b: OUTPUT«L␤L␤L␤H␤V␤v␤v␤␤H␤l␤e␤H␤h␤v␤v␤␤M␤f␤»
pmichaud hmmm. 19:53
rakudo: for $*IN.lines { say .substr(0,1); }
p6eval rakudo f7b42b: OUTPUT«L␤L␤L␤H␤V␤v␤v␤␤H␤l␤e␤H␤h␤v␤v␤␤M␤f␤a␤E␤V␤v␤v␤»
pmichaud ah, okay.
jnthn Hmm, weren't all those 3 the same?
pmichaud alarm is still impacting us.
jnthn Ah
pmichaud p6eval has a short alarm timeout
jnthn
.oO( false alarm )
 19:54
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pmichaud I haven't figured out exactly why rakudo runs into the alarm, though. On my system those all run regularly inside of 2 sec. 19:54
and the alarm is supposedly set at 5 (which really means between 4 and 5)
jnthn Aye, odd. There was a suggestion it was due to cron jobs that suck up a lot of resources, but I wasn't 100% convinced on that. 19:55
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kidd_ can anyone explain what does the "my $x = * - 5; say $x(8)" does? pointing me to a synopsis is ok too :) 20:03
DanielC How do you make a regex that matches either a word character or a dot? I tried using [ \w \. ] but that doesn't match either :-( 20:07
[ \w || \. ] seems to work, but I don't know why || is necessary. What else could [ \w \. ] possibly mean? 20:10
skids_ Word then a dot 20:11
|| is like perl5 | 20:12
DanielC But you would get the same with just plain \w \. So the [ ] don't seem to add anything.
skids_ oh sorry. I was dropping the [
DanielC Actually... It looks like the backslash is not necessary inside [ ]
pmichaud it is.
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DanielC :( 20:13
ah, of course... cause . along matches anything.
pmichaud the [ ... ] are for grouping. You're correct that as written, there's not much difference between [ \w \. ] and just \w \.
DanielC Ok.
pmichaud but there's a big difference between [ \w \. ]+ and \w \. +
skids_ wishes for /< foo bar phnord >/
pmichaud skids: I have a patch for that already -- just need to test and apply it.
DanielC Ok, thanks for the help. 20:14
skids_ pmichaud++ :-)
pmichaud actually, the patch was made during npw -- I just haven't made the time to review it. pmichaud--
skids_ Is there one for abbr<*viations> too ? 20:15
pmichaud no
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pmichaud I didn't even realize that's a valid syntax 20:15
skids_ I might have it slightly wrong. But came across it when trying to write a cisco ios config parser.
pmichaud file a test + ticket for it :-) 20:16
anyway, I have to run for a while -- bbl
skids_ I may.
cya
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jnthn kidd_: * - 5 creates a closure, like { $_ - 5 } 20:18
kidd_: It can be useful in a map. 20:19
pmichaud what's new is that this also works:
jnthn rakudo: my @in = 1,2,3; say @in.map(* - 5)
p6eval rakudo f7b42b: OUTPUT«-4-3-2␤»
pmichaud rakudo: my $x = * / 2 + 1; say $x(10) 20:20
p6eval rakudo f7b42b: OUTPUT«6␤»
jnthn Neato.
pmichaud as well as
rakudo: my $x = * / 2 + 4 / *; say $x(10)
jnthn It looks like unreverse polish notation though. ;-)
p6eval rakudo f7b42b: OUTPUT«5.4␤»
pmichaud okay, definitely gone now 20:21
bbl
kidd_ ah great. thanks 20:24
so it's a bit like ref to a sub. like my $fun = sub { (shift) * 3 }; $fun->(4) in perl5. * being the first arg. 20:37
I see it can only get one arg
rakudo: my $fun = ***3 + *; say $fun(10 , 9); 20:38
p6eval rakudo f7b42b: OUTPUT«too many arguments passed (2) - 1 params expected␤in Main (src/gen_setting.pm:3225)␤»
kidd_ rakudo: my $fun = ***3 + *; say $fun(10);
p6eval rakudo f7b42b: OUTPUT«1010␤»
kidd_ :)
pochi rakudo: my $x = * + *; say $x(5) 20:41
p6eval rakudo f7b42b: OUTPUT«10␤»
pochi rakudo: my $x = * * *; say $x(5)
p6eval rakudo f7b42b: OUTPUT«25␤»
pochi rakudo: my $x = * * * * * * *; say $x(2) 20:42
p6eval rakudo f7b42b: OUTPUT«16␤»
jnthn !! 20:44
pochi good for golfing :) 20:45
dalek kudo: 5f70a68 | (Martin Berends)++ | src/setting/Temporal.pm:
[Temporal.pm] add Temporal::TimeZone::Observance to manage timezone
 20:46
jnthn Not bad for obfuscating either. 20:47
pugs_svn r27030 | mberends++ | [Temporal.t] test DateTime stringify and Temporal::TimeZone::Observance 20:48
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pochi uhu ... 20:53
rakudo: my $x = *******; say $x(2);
p6eval rakudo 5f70a6: OUTPUT«16␤»
pochi rakudo: my $x = *******; say $x(3);
p6eval rakudo 5f70a6: OUTPUT«7625597484987␤»
pochi nm 21:01
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ruoso developers.slashdot.org/story/09/06...g?from=rss 21:42
^ that is a good reason for having no imperative barriers ;) 21:43
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mberends Microsoft appears to be bolting parallel routines on to .NET 4.0 code.msdn.microsoft.com/ParExtSamples 21:47
jnthn mberends: Yeah, expect I'll be looking at that in the not too distant future, for my .NET clients. 21:48
jnthn tries to keep up on the .NET world a bit too
ruoso holds his "no imperative barriers" banner a bit higher 21:51
jnthn ruoso: I'll read that when my branes are in a better state. :-)
lichtkind mberends: ping 21:53
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ruoso btw... the last time TimToady spoke about it, it seems that the only imperative barrier is the "void context"... 21:53
it means that if you call a sub that would return a lazy object in void context, it will be consumed immediatly 21:54
mberends lichtkind: pong
ruoso the same applies for any lazy construct, like for or map
lichtkind mberends: what you are doing now? 21:55
ruoso later &
jnthn mberends: Looks like thye've at least partly gone down the lock free data structures route. That's cool.
mberends lichtkind: planning more tests for Temporal routines 21:56
lichtkind mberends: so you are also helping moritz_
mberends lichtkind: yes, tests are vital for this project 21:57
lichtkind mberends: i seen that current syn and tests are more interwoven know good for devs buts also its now time that beginner get something more readable :)
mberends lichtkind: true. the Synopses are too technical for beginners. Most references are too advanced for beginners as well. Several people are creating new beginner tutorials, I'm sure there will be more to come. It would help to unify them, avoid splintering at this early stage. 22:01
lichtkind mberends: i know 3 attempts all died already
mberends: so we better get ours translated in time :)
mberends lichtkind: that's a great pity :( 22:02
lichtkind mberends: don't worry im german will fight to the bitter end 22:03
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mberends lichtkind: part of it may be the scattered sites and repositories with obscure addresses. Finding the right sites to carry the links is important. Perseverance++ 22:05
lichtkind mberends: yes the wiki is big enough
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lichtkind mberends: did you read the intro why i choose this name? 22:17
viklund rakudo: my $x = ***; say $x(2);
p6eval rakudo 5f70a6: OUTPUT«Statement not terminated properly at line 2, near "**; say $x"␤in Main (src/gen_setting.pm:0)␤»
viklund rakudo: my $x = *******; say $x(2);
p6eval rakudo 5f70a6: OUTPUT«16␤»
viklund rakudo: my $x = *****; say $x(2);
p6eval rakudo 5f70a6: OUTPUT«Statement not terminated properly at line 2, near "*; say $x("␤in Main (src/gen_setting.pm:0)␤»
viklund hmm
mberends lichtkind: the Emerald Tablets are new to me, but the name makes sense. Within the pages, they are called Tables instead of Tablets, it did seem strange. 22:22
lichtkind mberends: yes i rename that already everyway i see it
mberends: most imporantly: "They are also written in a way, that they can be read and understood in a helpful manner again and again, on various levels of consciousness. So I try to do with these docs." 22:23
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mberends lichtkind: your philosophy aligns perfectly with u4x as well. The magic is knowing what the reader wants to know all the way along. I've learned some of that by teaching Perl 5 so far, looking forward to teaching Perl 6. 22:27
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lichtkind mberends: please take a look at www.perlfoundation.org/perl6/index....able_intro 22:34
mberends: so we can at least freeze that as stable :)
mberends presses F5 22:35
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mberends :) requirements: 1. a brain 22:36
lichtkind: I'll gently massage some english hacking 22:38
lichtkind mberends: i dunno 22:39
mberends: mean dont understand
mberends I'll do just a few minor english fixes
lichtkind great 22:40
mberends hacking referred to the audreyt quote
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lichtkind that i understood :) 22:41
i love the phrase
mberends english is a very hacked language anyway. it's as elegant as the x86 instruction set. 22:42
lichtkind mberends: including SSE I & II ? :) 22:43
mberends that might be rap and lolspeak :)
lichtkind yes linguist said that every indian language was much more expressive than english :) 22:45
meaning native americans
mberends sure. and many members of #perl6 have strong linguist interests 22:47
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jnthn English does quite well at making things up out of building blocks rather than relying so heavily on doing conjugation and declension through inflectional morphology. 22:48
lichtkind mberends: the mismatch maybe comes also from the fact that table and tablet translate to the same german word
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jnthn I think that probably aids it in being a language that's easy to communicate in at a basic level. 22:49
mberends english is very good for n00bs. there's a workable Simple English vocab of less than 1000 words iirc. 22:52
jnthn That doesn't surprise me at all.
English bites once you get deeper into it though. 22:53
I've been trying to explain various things to people about it of late and realized more and more how much I take for granted that actually has some quite complex gramatical underpinnings.
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mberends "complex underpinnings" eqv "jumping through hoops" ;) 22:56
lichtkind mberends: can i insert the new nav into intro now ? 22:57
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mberends lichtkind: not just yet, completing an edit... 22:57
saved :) 22:58
lichtkind: to attract contributions from more contributors, all mention of yourself will have to go. No "I", "me" or even "we". Just Perl, and maybe "you" the reader. 23:01
jnthn mberends: Indeed. I'd have more sympathy for people learning English, apart from I'm currently learning Slovak, which I suspect is just as complex. 23:02
mberends It was obviously pitched differently when this was a series in $foo magazine.
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jnthn mberends: And probably at least as complex to begin with. 23:02
It's a bit like Perl 5. Beautiful, a lot of language features, and lots of special cases. 23:03
;-)
lichtkind mberends: yes it written some .. ago
mberends jnthn: I grok Croatian at grassroots level, can imagine your state of mind ;-) 23:04
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pmichaud back 23:05
lichtkind mberends: nono tablets werent for foo magazine
mberends: there are even older than that :)
feel free to change it mildly :) 23:06
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mberends lichtkind: that's what massage was intended to convey 23:07
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mberends lichtkind: let me do Perl Delta Table next, but I'm sneaking off for a quick snooze before you-know-who notices :) 23:09
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lichtkind mberends: did you see i already pasted delta :) 23:10
mberends yes, it needs translation 23:11
lichtkind yes i just translated heads 23:12
mberends: 1 sec
mberends: slightly improved index, so you know now whats in the chapters, now GO GO gO :) 23:13
mberends: i will do links in that time
mberends: intro is now done? 23:14
mberends finished intro. starting to edit Delta
lichtkind mberends: how you like the graham quote? 23:15
mberends good, bad, funny, you can take it multiple ways 23:16
lichtkind mberends: he has a very human and fair standpoint to perl, which is surprise given hes a lisp zealot 23:18
mberends: did you see that appendix B is now enhanced and almost entirely english 23:19
mberends yes :) those tables are all very useful. often better than an alphabetically sorted list such as appendix A, because similar things are grouped. 23:21
lichtkind mberends: still meditating if special var have there right place in there 23:24
mberends lichtkind: it should be the right place. it is where a beginner might search for it. 23:25
lichtkind mberends: good, have you the delta already open? 23:26
mberends yes, but can save soon...
saved 23:27
lichtkind i just made one minor adjustment on nav bar, you can do it too, just ** around the D:Delta so it get always highlighted whats current
mberends: make it around the whole like *"E:Links"[Perl Links Table]* 23:29
mberends good idea. shall I start editing again now? 23:30
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lichtkind mberends: opps i hurry 23:34
mberends: ready 23:35
mberends: links page now also operable first 2 blocks translated
mberends drat. Temporal.t test 7 fails sometimes, as the script warns. But it's better to test... 23:36
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mberends a tolerance of 1 second will probably always work for "now" 23:38
lichtkind: editing Delta again
lichtkind mberends: good 23:39
mberends: you could then also finish links i will tomorrow look then into the foo tutorial that we at least get part 1, i have enough for tonight :) 23:48
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mberends lichtkind: ok, it's late for me too :) 23:49
lichtkind mberends: but its great to see progress :) 23:50
mberends: found op thats was missing in index a :) 23:54
good night
mberends night
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