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Set by moritz_ on 27 June 2009.
pmichaud Good evening, #perl6 (from OSCON) 00:00
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pyrimidine pmichaud: Hi! Have fun at OSCON. 00:15
pmichaud I plan to do so :-)
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pyrimidine Great to hear about the -G bugs clearing up as well (and that last min. fix for hash ordering) 00:16
(for class attributes)
pmichaud yes, I was pleased I could get that one in place. 00:19
Teratogen I want Perl 6 now! 00:27
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pyrimidine rakudo: my StrInt $foo = 1; say $foo; 00:29
p6eval rakudo 415514: ( no output )
pyrimidine rakudo: subset StrInt of Any where { .does('Int') || .does('Str') }; my StrInt $foo = 1; say $foo;
p6eval rakudo 415514: OUTPUT«1␤»
pyrimidine there's some of your perl 6
(and isn't a Teratogen a chemical agent that causes birth defects?) 00:31
Teratogen not just chemical
any
pyrimidine ah
I should know that, being a biologist
Teratogen I read an article about Perl and the sequencing of the human genome 00:32
pyrimidine by Lincoln Stein 00:33
I collaborate with him on BioPerl
though these days he's pretty focused on Gbrowse 00:34
rakudo: my Int|Str $foo = 1; say $foo;
p6eval rakudo 415514: OUTPUT«Malformed declaration at line 2, near "Int|Str $f"␤Null PMC access in get_pmc_keyed()␤current instr.: 'perl6;Perl6;Compiler;eval' pc 289725 (src/gen_actions.pir:24150) (src/gen_setting.pm:3340)␤»
pyrimidine guess this version of polymorphic types is NYI 00:36
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missingthepoint_ hi all... as discussed with moritz++, i'm trying to document my learning process vis-a-vis perl 6 02:15
and I thought I'd write a newbies FAQ of sorts, comprised of questions I've had while learning
It would be great to get answers to some of these questions from people here 02:16
Some of the questions I can even answer myself, but there's a great chance I'm missing a lot 02:17
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missingthepoint_ I'd appreciate anyone answering some random P6/Parrot questions, here or in privmsg 02:18
s{P6/Parrot}{P6/Parrot/Rakudo...} 02:19
so let me know
:) 02:22
perhaps a better approach is for me to write up some Qs + As, then request comments 02:23
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missingthepoint_ if that makes more sense, say so 02:23
Casan so 02:26
missingthepoint_ :)
i'll start writing
check the pugs repo in a few hours :) 02:27
pmichaud I'll answer random questions 02:29
the channel is often a good place for random Q+A's, but possibly not on a Sunday afternoon (the night before OSCON)
lots of folks are on vacation, traveling, or otherwise occupied :-)
but truthfully, if you just write the FAQ and it has errors, someone will likely point them out quickly :-) 02:30
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Tene missingthepoint_: just ask the questions in here. 02:39
skids around for an hour for questions. 02:42
Not that I'm an authority on anything :-) 02:43
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missingthepoint_ skids: i'll appreciate your input nonetheless; you're likely more of an authority than I :) 03:03
pmichaud: ah, wasn't aware of OSCON :)
pmichaud: i'm a little far away -> not an option for me -> not really aware of such things :) 03:04
Tene: i'll ask and write simultaneously
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missingthepoint_ is there a canonical place where the P6 implementations are listed? 03:54
ha, timing palindrome :)
(sorry, ignore that)
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missingthepoint_ www.perlfoundation.org/perl6/index....mentations ? 03:56
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skids missingthepoint_: there's something called "elf" that's missing there. 05:06
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missingthepoint_ skids: thanks :) 05:13
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finanalyst good morning. is anyone here or is it a $day? 05:17
sjohnson i'm here 05:18
finanalyst i have a fairly long program with an array. first time through the iteration, there is an array that can be written to. the second time through, rakudo says it is read-only. how do i monitor where the trait changed? 05:20
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moritz_ missingthepoint_: the "canonical" list of Perl 6 implementations and other projects is on perl6-projects.org 06:35
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missingthepoint_ moritz_: thanks. i'm debating whether to just link there or include the list from there, and expand on it (re projects and their statuses) 06:40
moritz_ status is intionally not included on that page, because in general it changes much more often than the list itself 06:42
and I wanted to create a page that's kept up to date, far too many Perl 6 pages are somewhat outdated 06:43
missingthepoint_ hmm, i should probably rethink things a bit... writing some Beginner's FAQs as promised 06:45
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azawawi pmichaud: ping 06:46
missingthepoint_ moritz_: ... and wanted to give overview of the projects and "what fits where"
moritz_: but status may not be an appropriate part of that overview 06:47
moritz_ "use rakudo; other compilers exists in various stages; see $link or find out yourself" ;-) 06:48
missingthepoint_ moritz_: i see what you mean. lots of pages on p6wiki are outdated, and a fair bit of docs/ in pugs svn
moritz_: hehe :) 06:49
moritz_: i'll probably end up saying something close to that :)
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Matt-W Good morning 07:30
wayland76 Good evening :) 07:31
sjohnson y0 07:32
Matt-W Aaah, the joy of time zones
wayland76 phenny: tell pmichaud Can you comment on rt.perl.org/rt3/Ticket/Display.html?id=63360 to indicate whether it's accurate, or leave me a message via phenny or something?
phenny wayland76: I'll pass that on when pmichaud is around.
Matt-W Later today I will inevitably say 'good afternoon' to somebody who says 'good morning'
And chuckle 07:33
Such amusement as can be found on a Monday should be cherished
wayland76 phenny: tell pmichaud (ie. I want to know whether my most recent comments are accurate)
phenny wayland76: I'll pass that on when pmichaud is around.
wayland76 (for others in the IRC channel wondering what I'm asking pmichaud to have a look at, it's a ticket to do with getting Rakudo working on a preinstalled parrot 07:35
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Matt-W Aaah 07:50
That'd be nice
Particularly for people who track the monthly releases 07:51
wayland76 I had something that worked for me, but pmichaud didn't like it, so he's tried something, but I doubt it works for Windows people 07:53
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masak greetings, gathercamels! 08:47
lambdabot masak: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it.
masak @massage
lambdabot literal said 4d 10h 17m 18s ago: gah, sorry I couldn't make it tonight :(
Matt-W raises an eyebrow
'gathercamels'? 08:48
masak Matt-W: um, as in gather/take.
Matt-W yes I figured that
masak :)
moritz_ is more of a takecamel
Matt-W lol
Matt-W is trying to spontaneously learn sparc assembly
moritz_ or is that cameltake then?
Matt-W gather for @camels -> $camel { take $camel } 08:49
It's the coolest way to do an identity transform on a list!
masak really likes 'gather for'
Matt-W does too
moritz_ rakudo: say gather for 1 { take 2 } 08:50
p6eval rakudo 415514: OUTPUT«2␤»
literal hey masak
masak ...and 'gather while', and 'gather given'...
Matt-W however, there's some stuff I'm doing with it I would probably be better off doing with map
moritz_ I didn't even know it worked :-)
masak literal: hey.
literal masak: will you be here in 20 minutes time?
masak literal: aye.
literal ok, gonna head to work, will catch up with you there
masak nod.
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pugs_svn r27622 | moritz++ | [t/spec] fudge test that TimToady++ corrected and now does not pass on Rakudo anymore 09:02
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masak moritz_: is it entirely kosher to fudge regressions? 09:05
moritz_ masak: it's not a rakudo regression
masak oh, I see now.
then it's probably the right thing to do, yes.
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literal masak: since the rest of my gsoc schedule is concerned with writing/assimilating docs, what type of documentation do you think I should focus on? 09:19
moritz_ first of all blog about your progress so far. 09:20
literal ok
masak literal: what moritz_ said. 09:21
wayland76 literal: And then post a link to your blog here :) 09:29
(literal: especially since I don't even know what your project is :) )
moritz_ IMHO the next step would perlintro for Perl 6 09:30
literal I had started fixing up the perlintro that's in the pugs repo
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masak rakudo: sub foo { return }; say foo.WHAT; say ?(foo ~~ Nil) 09:39
p6eval rakudo 415514: OUTPUT«Nil()␤0␤»
masak rakudo: sub foo { return }; say foo.WHAT; say ?(foo() ~~ Nil)
p6eval rakudo 415514: OUTPUT«Nil()␤1␤»
masak dang, I still screw up wrt listop precedence sometimes.
KyleHa++ # tests for RT tickets 09:41
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dakkar rakudo: sub foo { return }; say &foo.WHAT 09:42
p6eval rakudo 415514: OUTPUT«Sub()␤»
literal how optional are parens around function arguments? are they only needed when the name might clash with a builtin or operator?
masak rakudo: sub next() { say "OH HAI" }; next 09:47
p6eval rakudo 415514: OUTPUT«OH HAI␤»
masak literal: seems user-defined subs take precedence.
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moritz_ next; is also implemented as a sub 10:24
literal it's weird that I can't fetch or update rakudo from github, yet I can do the same with other github repos 10:25
some firewall issue here perhaps 10:26
Matt-W that would be a weird firewall issue 10:28
literal yeah 10:29
I ended up pulling the repo from a machine in another country, then fetching a tarball of it to my computer
moritz_ ouch 10:30
literal: did you use git:// or http://
literal git://
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literal after doing "perl ./Configure.pl --gen-parrot", at one point it tries to display a couple of Pod files with perldoc(1) instead of converting them, then fails when it can't find "ops/bit.pod" 10:34
anyone had this problem?
lisppaste3 literal pasted "Parrot build failure" at paste.lisp.org/display/83841 10:35
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wayland76 Might be worth asking on #parrot 10:37
literal yeah
wayland76 (on irc.parrot.org )
pmichaud good (early) morning, #perl6
phenny pmichaud: 07:32Z <wayland76> tell pmichaud Can you comment on rt.perl.org/rt3/Ticket/Display.html?id=63360 to indicate whether it's accurate, or leave me a message via phenny or something?
pmichaud: 07:33Z <wayland76> tell pmichaud (ie. I want to know whether my most recent comments are accurate)
wayland76 Good evening :) :)
Actually, since I'm here now, feel free to just discuss it in-channel, if you've time at the moment :) 10:38
moritz_ literal: that's weird, it shouldn't even convert PODs
literal well, there are som perldoc lines in there, like "/usr/bin/perldoc -ud packfile-c.pod ../src/packfile.c 10:39
moritz_ literal: could you please run cd parrot; make realclean; perl Configure.pl && make
literal ok
moritz_ oh wait
it will come out the same
wayland76 moritz_: It seems to me like it's trying to extract pod from C files 10:40
Matt-W Wheee!
Matt-W had a 70 minute meeting in which we mostly complained about the state of the source tree at work
moritz_ literal: if you are lucky, 'cd parrot; make -k' builds enough of parrot to run rakudo 10:41
wayland76 ...and did anyone say "fair squeeze of the source bottle"? :)
literal if I manually execute the "/usr/bin/perldoc -ud packfile-c.pod" command while in docs/ I can call "make" again and it will continue until it fails on the next such Pod extraction 10:44
the Makefile is somehow executing "/usr/bin/perloc /usr/bin/perldoc -ud packfile-c.pod" 10:45
which gives me the same error
wayland76 That's pretty much the conclusion I just came to 10:46
moritz_ perloc?
wayland76 He means perldoc
literal I meant to write perldoc
moritz_ ok
wayland76 it's running perldoc on itself
literal this is from a fresh pull of Rakudo and Parrot, so there hasn't been any tampering by me 10:47
moritz_ so, it's a Configure.pl FAIL
please open a trac ticket for that 10:48
trac.parrot.org/parrot/newticket (you need to log in first) 10:49
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wayland76 phenny: tell pmichaud OK, I'm leaving the channel now (see previous comments from me) 11:36
phenny wayland76: I'll pass that on when pmichaud is around.
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moritz_ rakudo: class A { has Int $.x where { $_ < 23 } }; A.new(x => 1) 12:12
p6eval rakudo 415514: ( no output )
moritz_ rakudo: class A { has Int $.x where { $_ < 23 } }; A.new(x => 42)
p6eval rakudo 415514: ( no output )
masak I remember that one. :)
moritz_ so how do I declare an anonymous subtype on a parameter? 12:13
masak sub foo($param where { ... })
moritz_: like that?
moritz_ erm, I meant attribute
but I just couldn't think.
masak moritz_: like you did above? 12:14
(except it isn't enforced in Rakudo)
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masak moritz_: I thought you were reiterating an old masakbug. 12:14
moritz_ rakudo: class A { has Int where { $_ < 0 } $.x }; A.new(x => 42)
p6eval rakudo 415514: OUTPUT«Malformed declaration at line 2, near "Int where "␤Null PMC access in get_pmc_keyed()␤current instr.: 'perl6;Perl6;Compiler;eval' pc 289725 (src/gen_actions.pir:24150) (src/gen_setting.pm:3340)␤»
masak whoa.
moritz_: submit! 12:15
seems like a Null PMC Access during error reporting.
moritz_ submitted. 12:21
Matt-W blinks 12:22
Did I just see masak tell someone else to submit a bug??
masak Matt-W: I'm just back from a four-day vacation. I haven't re-revved up the engines. :P 12:30
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masak but it's not that uncommong that I ask people to submit bugs they discovered. 12:31
s/ong/on/
moritz_ when I ask people to write tests for bugs they discover I don't have as much success
masak writing tests feels like a bigger task. 12:32
'sides, it's more rewarding to complain than to standardize. :) 12:33
moritz_ I'm glad that KyleHa++ has taken it up 12:34
masak yes, that's awesome.
I once called November the biggest Perl 6 application, but it really isn't if you count the test suite. 12:35
and the test suite needs devs just as much as November does.
moritz_ it's not what you'd usually call an application 12:36
masak just a matter of definitions, I think.
it's not a coherent whole, but a lot of small parts.
still, it's a large chunk of Perl 6 code.
moritz_ aye
over the weekend I found a STD bug (er NYI) while writing tests 12:37
masak \o/
moritz_ s[foo] x= 2
std: s[foo] x= 2
literal huh, tried checking out parror separately and building there, and it works
p6eval std 27622: ( no output )
literal so it's a Rakudo build problem somehow
moritz_ should be the same .subst(/foo/, { $/ x 2 })
bah, what's wrong with p6eval now? 12:38
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masak just discovered perlgeek.de/blog-en/perl-6/rakudo-overview.html 12:59
moritz_++
moritz_ thanks
I spend some fun hours trying to learn inkscape 13:00
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moritz_ s/spend/spent/ 13:00
grammar is hard.
masak let's go shopped! 13:05
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masak std: alarm 13:20
p6eval std 27622: OUTPUT«Undeclared routine:␤ alarm used at 1 ␤ok 00:02 36m␤»
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moritz_ std: s[foo] x= 2 13:22
p6eval std 27622: OUTPUT«##### PARSE FAILED #####␤Missing '=' at /tmp/fngP746itL line 1:␤------> s[foo] x= 2␤FAILED 00:04 37m␤»
moritz_ it doesn't allow modified assignment ops, even though S05 explicitly does 13:23
masak STD-bug!
moritz_ aye. I'm sure sombody[tm] will notice on running 'make test'
masak oh, new tests? 13:24
moritz_ aye 13:27
I looked over t/spec/TODO on Friday and Saturday and came up with some s[], s/// and ss/// tests
masak the Makefile in src/perl6 still uses gimme5, but gimme5 is being phased out in favour of viv, right?
moritz_ slowly, yes 13:28
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masak why? what's the difference between them? 13:28
moritz_ gimme5 uses a hackish, regexp-based parser to translate 6 to 5 13:29
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moritz_ viv uses STD.pm to parse the Perl 6 13:29
and nothing but STD.pm can parse Perl 6, or so they say :-)
masak and gimme5 fakes it? 13:30
moritz_ yes
masak viv++
moritz_ if you ++ viv, it give vivi 13:33
masak :) 13:34
moritz_ which I'd like to have
6 on 6, the bootstrapped Perl 6 compiler... /me floats away in his dreams 13:35
masak rakudo: $viv = 'ⅵⅴ'; $viv++; say $viv
p6eval rakudo 415514: OUTPUT«Symbol '$viv' not predeclared in <anonymous> (/tmp/vTLWQTfxuV:2)␤in Main (src/gen_setting.pm:3340)␤»
masak rakudo: my $viv = 'ⅵⅴ'; $viv++; say $viv
p6eval rakudo 415514: OUTPUT«ⅵⅵ␤»
masak \o/
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dakkar *why* does it work??? 13:36
moritz_ masak: care to submit that as a test? :-)
dakkar is scared of rakudo, sometimes 13:37
moritz_ dakkar: because rakudo knows about the Unicode roman number literals
dakkar ow, it's two characters
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moritz_ aye 13:37
and it increments the lasts
masak moritz_: I would, but I'm kinda working...
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dakkar ok, it's less scary that I thought at first 13:37
takadonet morning everyone
moritz_ and if there's an overflow, it increments the next-to-last etc
masak dakkar: glad I succeeded in freaking you out. :) 13:38
moritz_ masak: don't hurry, you can do it tonight when you've stopped working :-)
masak moritz_: I might.
but the sand I write my mental notes in is a bit slippery.
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xiaoyafeng good night everyone ;) 13:43
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pmurias ruoso: hi 14:28
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ruoso hi pmurias 14:43
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pmurias ruoso: do you think it ok if we treat yeast frames as lexical scope (that is they will handle lookup etc.)? 15:27
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Lorn dev.perl.org/perl6/doc/apocalypse.html these documents are updated? 15:31
pmichaud Good morning, #perl6 15:32
phenny pmichaud: 11:36Z <wayland76> tell pmichaud OK, I'm leaving the channel now (see previous comments from me)
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pmichaud is coming to you live from Damian's "Perl 6: Why? What? How?" tutorial :-) 15:33
moritz_ phenny: so, tell us. Why? What? How?
erm, I meant pmichaud ;-) 15:34
Lorn pmichaud: oscon? /me envy
pmichaud I can't say "Why? What? How?" yet -- we just started. Ask me again in three hours :-)
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TimToady blear 16:02
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moritz_ did you mean "blech"? ;-) 16:06
TimToady blear : eyes :: blech : throat
moritz_ masak++ # that newest blog post 16:09
PerlJam FWIW, feather.perl6.nl/~duff/scriptinglan...nkings.pdf 16:12
I wonder how "true" these surveys are thouth
er, though
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pugs_svn r27623 | hinrik++ | [docs] perlintro.pod: Fill in more sections, add one on smart matching 16:20
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ruoso pmurias, my point was to avoid the lookup calls, not delegate it to some other obhet 16:26
*object 16:27
pugs_svn r27624 | hinrik++ | [docs] perlintro.pod: Syntax fix in some code examples 16:28
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spx2 arnsholt: what's your data structure book called ? 16:36
ruoso pmurias, the lexical scope is still usefull as an object on its own 16:39
pmurias ruoso: something we call might use CALLER, even if we store the variable in a register we might want to enable using lookup in the worst case 16:44
ruoso pmurias, exactly... the lexical scope still needs to exist
but the code needs to be smart enough to avoid doing a lookup when it's not needed
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azawawi hi 16:45
pmurias azawawi: hi
ruoso pmurias, for instance... 16:46
in the code generated by: my $a { my $b { my $c { say $a, $b, $c } } } 16:47
the outermost block can know that the inner block needs the variable '$a'
the second knows the inner needs '$a' and '$b'
and so on...
azawawi std: regex anint { <digit>+ $ };proto infix:<add> (@left,@right) { ... };
p6eval std 27624: OUTPUT«ok 00:03 38m␤» 16:48
ruoso pmurias, so you simply install the container on the inner yeast frame
azawawi std:proto infix:<add> (@left,@right) { ... }; regex anint { <digit>+ $ };
ruoso and avoid the lookup... while the lexical scope is still initialized
pmurias and if something block rebinds the variable? 16:49
s/block//
azawawi std: . 16:50
p6eval std 27624: OUTPUT«##### PARSE FAILED #####␤Obsolete use of . to concatenate strings; in Perl 6 please use ~ instead at /tmp/9XcRGHB61G line 2:␤------> ;␤FAILED 00:02 36m␤»
azawawi std:proto infix:<add> (@left,@right) { ... }; regex anint { <digit>+ $ };
ruoso pmurias, it means you need to store the bvalue in the yeast frame 16:51
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dalek ok: 4d74916 | (Hinrik Örn Sigurðsson)++ | script/grok:
Add note about =table problems
 16:51
TimToady azawawi: I have not yet fixed the bug that makes that run out of memory 16:52
ruoso pmurias, but indeed, that would still do the lookup
azawawi TimToady: no problem im just following up :)
ruoso TimToady, can the use of CALLER or $*foo be used to re-bind a container? or just fetch/store values? 16:53
pmurias, a bind can be detected, I guess...
TimToady, if that question is not yet answered, I'd say that forbidding that rebind would be a great improvement in the room for future optimizations
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TimToady I'm inclined to agree, as an extension to the "lexical scopes are immutable" principle 16:54
(once closed)
ruoso great... that means re-binds are always visible to the compiler
and can pessimize on that 16:55
*the compiler can
16:55 azawawi left
ruoso i.e.: both "$*foo := something()" and "CALLER::<$foo> := something()" to result in a failure 16:55
TimToady, does that apply to eval'ed strings as well? 16:57
i.e.: my $foo; eval '$foo := something()';
TimToady can argue that one both ways 16:58
eval already massively pessimizes
ruoso ah.. right.. indeed..
TimToady but the fact that it's inline means it's the intention of the surrounding scope 16:59
ruoso right... but that's a naive example
my $a = '$foo := something()'; { my $foo; { eval $a } } 17:00
pmurias ruoso: re CALLER:<$foo> := something(), one can only see contextuals via CALLER right?
ruoso yes
17:02 molaf left
pugs_svn r27625 | lwall++ | [STD] allow any assignop after s[], moritz++ 17:03
r27625 | lwall++ | lexical alias of "our" should also alias the stash, not just package object
r27625 | lwall++ | other minor tweakages
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pmurias ruoso: i'm not sure where to put the 'does not rebind' and 'needs those lexicals' info 17:09
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ruoso pmurias, we're going to need to fiddle with STD stash 17:10
pmurias, you can check where some specific variable comes from using STD information 17:11
and then reverse that information so that the outer yeast passes the containers to the inner yeast
maybe TimToady could help a bit on how to get that data from STD 17:12
pmurias does the data exist in our old snapshot? 17:13
ruoso I guess it does, since it already rejects undeclared variables, doesn't it? 17:14
moritz_ std: s[a] + 4;
p6eval std 27624: OUTPUT«##### PARSE FAILED #####␤Missing '=' at /tmp/VjIPAZq3Ux line 1:␤------> s[a] + 4;␤FAILED 00:04 37m␤»
pmurias ruoso: it warns about undeclared variables yes 17:15
ruoso pmurias, so it knows where the variables come from
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TimToady std: 25 17:26
p6eval std 27625: OUTPUT«ok 00:02 36m␤»
TimToady std: s[a] + 4;
p6eval std 27625: OUTPUT«##### PARSE FAILED #####␤Malformed assignment operator at /tmp/dowhSoTZF7 line 1:␤------> s[a] + 4;␤FAILED 00:04 37m␤»
moritz_ std: s[1] += 4
p6eval std 27625: OUTPUT«ok 00:04 36m␤»
pmurias ruoso: but the lexical pads in STD exist only during the parse and we get our AST afterwords 17:30
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TimToady pmurias: you can always poke pad links into the AST at reduce time 17:46
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pmichaud std: my @a; say @a[-1]; 17:49
p6eval std 27625: OUTPUT«##### PARSE FAILED #####␤Obsolete use of [-1] subscript to access final element; in Perl 6 please use [*-1] instead at /tmp/jAKzU6kdEa line 1:␤------> my @a; say @a[-1];␤FAILED 00:02 39m␤»
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TimToady pmichaud: was that a Q from the tutorial? :) 17:53
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pmichaud TimToady: Yes -- Damian's slides are out of date there. I think he'll be looking for you. :-) :-) 17:56
TimToady I'm hiding at home :) 17:57
pmichaud I suspected as much. 17:58
KyleHa Do I need a github acct to commit to Rakudo? 18:01
pmichaud KyleHa: yes. And a commit bit. And for that you need a CLA :-)
KyleHa Conjugated Linoleic Acid ? 18:02
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pmichaud Contributor License Agreement 18:03
www.perlfoundation.org/contributor_..._agreement
KyleHa Oh, I have to sign something? Far out.
pmichaud and you'll need some existing committers to sponsor you.... but I think we can come up with that fairly easily. :-) 18:05
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KyleHa Thanks for the pointers. I had been wondering about that for a while. 18:06
I think I'll stay with git-format-patch for now. 18:07
PerlJam Does rakudo have a contributers guide in the repo somewhere?
tann_ does the subject of a patch submitted to an rt ticket contain [patch] [perl #xyz]? thanks
pmichaud It's called "README"
pmurias ruoso: one other way we could cut startup time would be to freeze/thaw objects instead of recreating them 18:08
PerlJam pmichaud: the README doesn't say anything about a CLA 18:09
ruoso pmurias, any idea on how to do it in a sane way?
pmurias ruoso: having a .c method which would return code to create the object 18:11
?
ruoso pmurias, that's what we do now 18:12
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pmichaud PerlJam: patch or commit welcome for fixing the README 18:13
or even adding a contributors guide to docs/ 18:14
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KyleHa Is "A.foo" the same as "A::foo"? 18:21
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pmichaud No. 18:22
The first is a method call.
KyleHa OK, I get it. 18:23
Thanks.
pmurias ruoso: and how will the lexicals be passed into Code.new? 18:31
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pugs_svn r27626 | kyle++ | eval_dies_ok now checks for "fairly_conclusive_platform_error" 18:38
r27627 | kyle++ | Test for RT #64566
ruoso pmurias, it's not to Code.new... we need to be able to create the closure clone and feed the variables there
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pmurias doesn't Code.new create the closure clone? 18:44
s/closure clone/a new closure/
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KyleHa std: sub foo-bar {} 19:00
p6eval std 27627: OUTPUT«ok 00:02 36m␤»
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KyleHa std: sub sub-marine { $torp++ } 19:00
p6eval std 27627: OUTPUT«Potential difficulties:␤ Variable $torp is not predeclared at /tmp/rmjw0Q2peN line 1:␤------> sub sub-marine { $torp++ }␤ok 00:02 36m␤»
KyleHa std: sub a-b {}; a-b(); 19:01
p6eval std 27627: OUTPUT«ok 00:02 36m␤»
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KyleHa Is it true that I should be able to define a sub with a hyphen in the name? 19:01
PerlJam rakudo: sub foo-bar { say "hi"; }; foo-bar; 19:02
p6eval rakudo 415514: OUTPUT«hi␤»
PerlJam not only does STD say so, but so does rakudo. 19:03
KyleHa PerlJam: Thanks. That was clearly too obvious for me to see. 8-)
[particle] kyleha: and apostrophe, too! 19:04
rakudo: sub isn't { return Nil(); }
p6eval rakudo 415514: ( no output )
KyleHa Oddly enough, I find that stranger than utf8 characters. 19:05
PerlJam heh
ruoso pmurias, right... maybe code.new needs a :feed-registers(...) 19:07
KyleHa rakudo: sub foo-bar { say 'hi'; }; foo-bar; 19:11
p6eval rakudo 415514: OUTPUT«hi␤»
KyleHa rakudo: eval "sub foo-bar { say 'hi'; }; foo-bar;"; say "$!"
p6eval rakudo 415514: OUTPUT«hi␤Malformed routine definition at line 1, near "foo-bar 1;"␤␤»
KyleHa What is that? 19:12
TimToady you interpolated {...} 19:13
KyleHa Oh. The braces interpolate.
TimToady: Just when I figured it out. Thanks. 8-) 19:14
rakudo: eval "sub foo-bar \{ say 'hi'; \}; foo-bar;"; say "$!"
p6eval rakudo 415514: OUTPUT«hi␤Use of uninitialized value␤␤»
KyleHa Better.
TimToady rakudo: eval q/sub foo-bar { say 'hi'; }; foo-bar;/; say $! 19:15
p6eval rakudo 415514: OUTPUT«hi␤Use of uninitialized value␤␤»
TimToady rakudo: eval q{sub foo-bar { say 'hi'; }; foo-bar;}; say $! 19:16
p6eval rakudo 415514: OUTPUT«Syntax error at line 2, near "}; say $!"␤Null PMC access in get_pmc_keyed()␤current instr.: 'perl6;Perl6;Compiler;eval' pc 289725 (src/gen_actions.pir:24150) (src/gen_setting.pm:3340)␤»
TimToady kerblooey :)
KyleHa Ouch.
In my real code, I want to interpolate, so backslashing is the way I'm going. 19:17
TimToady std: eval q{sub foo-bar { say 'hi'; }; foo-bar;}; say $!
p6eval std 27627: OUTPUT«ok 00:03 37m␤»
TimToady rakudo: eval qq:s/sub foo-bar { say 'hi'; }; foo-bar;/; say $!
p6eval rakudo 415514: OUTPUT«Syntax error at line 2, near "eval qq:s/"␤Null PMC access in get_pmc_keyed()␤current instr.: 'perl6;Perl6;Compiler;eval' pc 289725 (src/gen_actions.pir:24150) (src/gen_setting.pm:3340)␤»
TimToady rakudo: eval Q:s/sub foo-bar { say 'hi'; }; foo-bar;/; say $! 19:18
p6eval rakudo 415514: OUTPUT«Syntax error at line 2, near "eval Q:s/s"␤Null PMC access in get_pmc_keyed()␤current instr.: 'perl6;Perl6;Compiler;eval' pc 289725 (src/gen_actions.pir:24150) (src/gen_setting.pm:3340)␤»
tann_ rakudo: say 1.Str 19:23
p6eval rakudo 415514: OUTPUT«Int()<0xb6892660>␤»
tann_ rakudo: say '1.5'.Num 19:24
p6eval rakudo 415514: OUTPUT«Method 'Num' not found for invocant of class 'Str'␤»
tann_ rakudo: 1.5.int
p6eval rakudo 415514: ( no output )
tann_ rakudo: say 1.5.int
p6eval rakudo 415514: OUTPUT«1␤»
tann_ rakudo: say 1.5.Str 19:25
p6eval rakudo 415514: OUTPUT«Num()<0xb6864450>␤»
tann_ pugs: say 1.5.Str 19:26
p6eval pugs: OUTPUT«*** No such method in class Rat: "&Str"␤ at /tmp/HEvD96fvzR line 1, column 5 - line 2, column 1␤»
pugs_svn r27628 | kyle++ | Test for RT #64656 19:29
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Guest19957 hey 19:35
KyleHa Ahoy.
Guest19957 i am newbie to perl and i would like to get some pointers on coding. 19:36
KyleHa Do you program in some other language already?
std: map { say "$^a - $^b"}, 1..10 Z 1..10 19:37
Guest19957 yes python
p6eval std 27627: ( no output )
KyleHa Okeydoke.
perlmonks.org has a wealth of information and search facilities. 19:38
std: map { say "$^a - $^b"}, (1..10 Z 1..10) 19:39
p6eval std 27627: ( no output )
Guest19957 what does that mean?
KyleHa In Perl, 'map' is similar to what you'd call a list comprehension. 19:40
Guest19957 Can you explain that further please
KyleHa perldoc.perl.org/functions/map.html
Guest19957 reading 19:41
KyleHa You're probably interested in learning about Perl 5, which is what's most commonly used out in the wild. This channel is really about Perl 6.
Guest19957 but perl 6 has not come out yet
and yes perl 5
KyleHa If you're looking for IRC-based help with Perl 5, you might look here: www.irc.perl.org/channels.mhtml 19:42
Guest19957 k
KyleHa You can get incomplete implementations of Perl 6 now.
Guest19957 na i lie perl 5 19:43
but is perl 6 more advanced?
KyleHa The language as specified is more advanced. The language as implemented is a bit more scattershot.
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Guest19957 join me in email 19:45
#email
19:46 Guest19957 left
arejay anyway to load a perl module from a local dir 19:46
KyleHa Sounds straight forward, but I don't know how that's done. 19:47
lisppaste3 rj pasted "IRCLog.pm" at paste.lisp.org/display/83875
arejay if i put it in /usr/local/lib/perl5/5.8.9/mach it works fine, but then if i want to run another version.. it fails 19:48
cause it reads database.conf
:[
PERL5LIB 19:50
hrm
got it EXPORT 19:51
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moritz_ KyleHa: I'd prefer it if regression tests went into existing test file 20:05
after all regression tests are only the secondary task of the spectest suite 20:06
KyleHa I looked for something appropriate, and I didn't find. Where do you think do-bug.t should go?
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moritz_ if it's related to do { }, in S04-statements/do.t 20:07
if it's about identifiers... S02 somewhere, let me take a look... 20:08
KyleHa It's not really related to do {}
moritz_ S02-names/identifiers perhaps
oh wait
KyleHa It's this ticket: rt.perl.org/rt3/Ticket/Display.html?id=64656 subnames starting with do- can't be called. 20:09
moritz_ S02-names_and_variables/names.t smartlinks to the right section at least
hm
let's just move it to S02-names/identifier.t
KyleHa OK. I'll do that. 20:10
Thanks!
moritz_ thank you for writing the tests!
KyleHa I don't see an identifier.t 20:11
moritz_ yes, let's create that
KyleHa Oh, OK.
moritz_ just git mv
and later on add more general tests, not necessarily related to this ticket
it seems we also don't test for ' in names 20:12
KyleHa Yeah, I thought of that too.
moritz_ ack "\$\w+'\w" gives no result
shall I, or will you? (moving)
KyleHa I'm doing it.
moritz_ great! 20:13
pugs_svn r27629 | kyle++ | move S06-other/do-bug.t to S02-names/identifier.t
KyleHa I was looking for a place to stick 64814 tests too. S06-signature/type* or S06-signature/slurpy-* 20:14
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KyleHa Is there a tool for showing test coverage like Devel::Cover in Perl 5? 20:15
PerlJam not yet
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moritz_ I'd prefer S06-signature/slurpy-params.t, but either is OK 20:16
KyleHa OK, thanks.
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pugs_svn r27630 | moritz++ | [t/spec] more tests for identifier names; fudged for Rakudo 20:25
dalek kudo: 3a2c5e2 | moritz++ | t/spectest.data:
add S02-names/identifier.t to spectest.data
 20:31
kudo: 0cdcc88 | (Bob Kuo)++ | README:
fixes typo in README file, 'git-format-patch' is actually 'git format-patch'
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pugs_svn r27631 | kyle++ | Test for #64814 20:36
r27632 | lwall++ | [Cursor] fix infinite recursion bug, finanalyst++, azawawi++ 20:37
frettled Hmm, was infinite recursion bugging? ;) 20:45
pugs_svn r27633 | kyle++ | [t/spec] Match descriptions to tests
moritz_ pmichaud: so, do you know what, why and how? 20:48
pmichaud I do! 20:49
well, I know .WHAT and .HOW. .WHY got skipped over a bit :-) 20:50
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moritz_ that would have been the really interesting part for us. 20:51
TimToady "because it's not there"
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moritz_ I meant more like, how do POD variables work in detail, get attached to objects etc. 20:51
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moritz_ KyleHa++ # cleaning up after me 20:53
mncharity hi all. random thought: the rosettacode.org/ page for Perl 6 rosettacode.org/wiki/Category:Perl_6 is largely empty. There are a variety of tasks rosettacode.org/wiki/Category:Solut...mming_Task one might code to show p6 idioms. 20:54
cheers &
M_o_C are there usually video recordings of OSCON talks?
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pmichaud video recording of oscon talks is often spotty. Depends on the speaker. 21:01
M_o_C hm, ok 21:02
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hoelzro quick question about Perl 6. I attended Damien Conway's talk at OSCON earlier today (very inspiring, by the way!), and he mentioned the "$high max= $value" construct. I was wondering why a max= shortcut operator was added when you could do something like "$high .= max($value)"? 21:15
ruoso hoelzro, max= wasn't added... it's just a natural use of the = metaoperator... 21:16
pmichaud Also, max isn't a method.
ruoso hoelzro, it works the same way as +=, but for whatever operator you want
pmichaud at least, it's not a method that compares the invocant against another value
hoelzro ruoso: so max='s existence isn't explicit, it's just created automatically when you create a binary operator?
pmichaud $high max= $value is $high = $high max $value; 21:17
moritz_ modulo precedence
ruoso hoelzro, it's not even created automatically... the parser is a bit smarter than that
hoelzro alright
ruoso it's an operator and a meta operator
frettled Who's going to Lisbon, BTW?
ruoso not 21:18
even If I used to live there ;)
pmichaud <- going to lisbon
moritz_ would love to, but can't
frettled pmichaud: yay
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frettled moritz_: aw :( 21:18
hoelzro ok, so max isn't a method...is + implemented as a method? (aka. how special are operators?) 21:19
pmichaud most operators tend to be multi subs
(which often turn around and call methods or do things method-like) 21:20
hoelzro pmichaud: so max is a multi sub that calls a method? 21:21
I just think a max method on Number would be good
3.max(4) # 4
KyleHa rakudo: sub infix:<+>{ $^a * $^b }; say 2 + 3;
hoelzro just another way to do it
p6eval rakudo 0cdcc8: OUTPUT«6␤»
KyleHa Nyuck nyuck nyuck.
pmichaud actually, there's a .max method, but it's list-like and not operator like 21:22
rakudo: say (3,5,4).max;
p6eval rakudo 0cdcc8: OUTPUT«5␤»
pmichaud rakudo: say 4.max;
p6eval rakudo 0cdcc8: OUTPUT«4␤»
hoelzro I see
frettled pretty neat, anyway. 21:23
pmichaud so infix:<max> is actually somewhat different from Any.max
hoelzro ok
pmichaud What Damian didn't show is that there's a max function as well.
rakudo: say max (3,5,4);
p6eval rakudo 0cdcc8: OUTPUT«No applicable candidates found to dispatch to for 'max'␤in Main (/tmp/N3uTDXsIE1:2)␤»
pmichaud oops 21:24
rakudo: say max 3,5,4
p6eval rakudo 0cdcc8: OUTPUT«No applicable candidates found to dispatch to for 'max'␤in Main (/tmp/0dceAXEbHi:2)␤»
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pmichaud hmmmm. 21:24
moritz_ rakudo: say [max] 2, 5, 4
p6eval rakudo 0cdcc8: OUTPUT«5␤»
pmichaud moritz_: yes, that's a different one.
KyleHa Heh.
pmichaud There *was* a max function as well at one time.
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moritz_ I'm not very familiar with the history of Perl 6 ;-) 21:25
pmichaud I guess it's gone now.
21:25 jrtayloriv left
pmichaud (the synopsis says to use [max]) 21:25
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M_o_C "[max] 1, 2, 3" is equal to "1 max 2 max 3", right? 21:29
moritz_ right 21:30
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hudnix Is there a way for a parametric role to create method names composed from its parameters? 21:56
PerlJam hudnix: that seems ... weird.
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moritz_ if the parameter of the role appears in the signature of the method, it's already part of the long name 21:57
hudnix something like: role foo[Str $meth] {method $meth {say $meth}}; 21:58
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PerlJam hudnix: why? 21:58
hudnix because I want to create multidimensional doubly linked lists, and I only want to implement the inserts/deletes once, and then have a class do the role with different parameters, e.g.: does List["left", "right"]; does List["up","down"], then the methods will be insertup, deleteleft, etc. 22:01
moritz_ I think it would be better to have the updown and leftrigh linkage as attributes 22:02
and then you can use 'handles' to delegate to that
'has Linking $.updown handles<up down>' 22:03
'has Linking $.leftright handles<left right>'
or something along these lines
hudnix yes that would work too
moritz_ with more magic and less confusion, I think ;-) 22:04
erm, less magic 22:05
hudnix But I would have to define the up, down left and right methods in the Linking role right?
moritz_ actually you can rename the methods with 'handles'
ie $.updown handles left => 'up', right => 'down' 22:06
hudnix ah!
ok, that'll work
moritz_ (I don't knwo if I got the syntax right, but S12 should help you there)
hudnix But I still think parametric method names would be cool :) 22:07
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moritz_ variable method names look like design smell to me, just like variable variable names 22:08
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hudnix They would be constant, no? Just specified at composition time. 22:10
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tann_ rakudo: say "1".Int 23:22
p6eval rakudo 0cdcc8: OUTPUT«1␤»
tann_ rakudo: say "1.5".Int
p6eval rakudo 0cdcc8: OUTPUT«1␤»
tann_ rakudo: say 1.Str 23:23
p6eval rakudo 0cdcc8: OUTPUT«Int()<0xb68a9660>␤»
tann_ rakudo: my Int ($x, $y);
p6eval rakudo 0cdcc8: ( no output )
tann_ rakudo: my Int ($x, $y) = 1, 2; say "$x : $y" 23:24
p6eval rakudo 0cdcc8: OUTPUT«1 : 2␤»
tann_ rakudo: my (Int $x, Num $y) = 1, 1.2; say "$x : $y" 23:25
p6eval rakudo 0cdcc8: OUTPUT«1 : 1.2␤»
tann_ rakudo: my Int @a = 1, 1.1, 1.2, 1.3; say @a.perl
p6eval rakudo 0cdcc8: OUTPUT«Array assignment type check failed; expected Int, but got Num␤Null PMC access in get_pmc_keyed()␤current instr.: 'perl6;Perl6;Compiler;eval' pc 289725 (src/gen_actions.pir:24150) (src/gen_setting.pm:3340)␤» 23:26
tann_ rakudo: my @a = 1..10; @a.map: { $_ % 2}; say @a.perl 23:28
p6eval rakudo 0cdcc8: OUTPUT«[1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10]␤»
tann_ rakudo: my @a = 1..10; @a.map: { $_ % 2 }; say @a.perl
p6eval rakudo 0cdcc8: OUTPUT«[1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10]␤»
tann_ rakudo: my @a = 1..10; @a.=map: { $_ % 2 }; say @a.perl 23:29
p6eval rakudo 0cdcc8: OUTPUT«[1, 0, 1, 0, 1, 0, 1, 0, 1, 0]␤»
tann_ rakudo: my @a = 1..10; @a.map: { $_ = $_ % 2 }; say @.perl 23:30
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p6eval rakudo 0cdcc8: OUTPUT«Lexical 'self' not found␤» 23:30
TimToady rakudo: my @a = 1..10; @a.map: { $_ = $_ % 2 }; say @a.perl 23:31
p6eval rakudo 0cdcc8: OUTPUT«[1, 0, 1, 0, 1, 0, 1, 0, 1, 0]␤»
TimToady rakudo: my @a = 1..10; @a.map: { $_ %= 2 }; say @a.perl
p6eval rakudo 0cdcc8: OUTPUT«[1, 0, 1, 0, 1, 0, 1, 0, 1, 0]␤»
TimToady rakudo: my @a = 1..10; @a »%=» 2; say @a.perl 23:32
p6eval rakudo 0cdcc8: OUTPUT«Statement not terminated properly at line 2, near "\x{bb}%=\x{bb} 2; sa"␤Null PMC access in get_pmc_keyed()␤current instr.: 'perl6;Perl6;Compiler;eval' pc 289725 (src/gen_actions.pir:24150) (src/gen_setting.pm:3340)␤»
TimToady rakudo: my @a = 1..10; @a >>%=>> 2; say @a.perl 23:33
p6eval rakudo 0cdcc8: OUTPUT«Statement not terminated properly at line 2, near ">>%=>> 2; "␤Null PMC access in get_pmc_keyed()␤current instr.: 'perl6;Perl6;Compiler;eval' pc 289725 (src/gen_actions.pir:24150) (src/gen_setting.pm:3340)␤»
pmichaud I don't think Rakudo hyperizes assignment yet
TimToady std: my @a = 1..10; @a >>%=>> 2; say @a.perl
p6eval std 27633: OUTPUT«##### PARSE FAILED #####␤Can't hyper a multiplicative because it's too fiddly at /tmp/kpDmL75bAx line 1:␤------> my @a = 1..10; @a >>%=>> 2; say @a.perl␤FAILED 00:02 37m␤»
TimToady aww
sjohnson :( 23:34
TimToady and it has nothing to do with the multiplicativeness...
std: my @a = 1..10; @a >>%>> 2; say @a.perl
p6eval std 27633: OUTPUT«ok 00:02 37m␤» 23:35
sjohnson you broketed it
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pugs_svn r27634 | pmichaud++ | [t/spec]: Unfudge a test for Rakudo. 23:56
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