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»ö« | perl6.org/ | nopaste: paste.lisp.org/new/perl6 | evalbot usage: 'perl6: say 3;' or rakudo: / pugs: / std: , or /msg p6eval perl6: ... | irclog: irc.pugscode.org/ | UTF-8 is our friend! Set by wolfe.freenode.net on 30 October 2009. |
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| sjohnson | rakudo: my $str = "cow"; if $str != "pig" or "chicken" { print 1; } | 00:05 | |
| p6eval | rakudo 77bf8c: 1 | ||
| sjohnson | rakudo: my $str = "cow"; if $str != "pig" or "cow" { print 1; } else { print 2; } | ||
| p6eval | rakudo 77bf8c: 1 | ||
| rjbs | rakudo: my $str = "cow"; if $str != "pig" or "hen" { print 1; } else { print 2; } | 00:06 | |
| p6eval | rakudo 77bf8c: 1 | ||
| rjbs | "cow" is true, presuambly. | ||
| rakudo: my $str = "cow"; if $str != "pig" | "cow" { print 1; } else { print 2; } | 00:07 | ||
| sjohnson | rakudo: my $str = "cow"; if $str == "pig" or "cow" { print 1; } else { print 2; } | ||
| p6eval | rakudo 77bf8c: 2 | ||
| rakudo 77bf8c: 1 | |||
| sjohnson | oops | ||
| rjbs | you want | to get the junction, iirc. | ||
| sjohnson | rakudo: my $str = "cow"; if $str == "pig" or "cow" { print '1-sj'; } else { print '2-sj'; } | ||
| p6eval | rakudo 77bf8c: 1-sj | ||
| sjohnson | rakudo: my $str = "cow"; if $str == "pig" or "hen" { print '1-sj'; } else { print '2-sj'; } | ||
| p6eval | rakudo 77bf8c: 1-sj | ||
| sjohnson | hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm | ||
| rjbs | now, try with | | ||
| sjohnson | k | ||
| rakudo: my $str = "cow"; if $str == "pig" | "hen" { print '1-sj'; } else { print '2-sj'; } | 00:08 | ||
| p6eval | rakudo 77bf8c: 1-sj | ||
| rjbs | oh well. | ||
| time to get off the bus. | |||
| sjohnson | heh | ||
| i know there's sort of an (3 < $i < 6) type syntax in p6 | |||
| i wonder if my animal example works in p6 somehow | 00:09 | ||
| ash_ | rakudo: my $a = 'cow'; if $a ~~ 'hen'|'cow' { say 1; } | ||
| p6eval | rakudo 77bf8c: 1 | ||
| ash_ | rakudo: my $str = "cow"; if $str ~~ "pig" | "hen" { print '1-sj'; } else { print '2-sj'; } | 00:10 | |
| p6eval | rakudo 77bf8c: 2-sj | ||
| sjohnson | ash_: do you know if this is exactly the same internals as writing a (pig|hen) regex? | ||
| or if it's trying two separate comparisons, as i hope it is doing | 00:11 | ||
| ash_ | it should be 2 different comparisions | ||
| sjohnson | ash_++ # smart | ||
| ash_ | rakudo: say ('pig' | 'hen').WHAT; | ||
| p6eval | rakudo 77bf8c: Junction() | ||
| ash_ | that should be doing a Str smart matched to a Junction | ||
| sjohnson | rakudo: say /(pig|hen)/.WHAT | 00:12 | |
| p6eval | rakudo 77bf8c: Regex() | ||
| sjohnson | rakudo: say {(pig|hen)}.WHAT | ||
| p6eval | rakudo 77bf8c: Block() | ||
| sjohnson | say (m{moose}).WHAT | ||
| ash_ | there is a big list of smartmatch precedence in one of the specs i think S03 | ||
| sjohnson | rakudo: say ('pig' or 'hen').WHAT; | 00:13 | |
| p6eval | rakudo 77bf8c: Str() | ||
| ash_ | rakudo: say 'pig' or 'hen'; | 00:14 | |
| p6eval | rakudo 77bf8c: pig | ||
| ash_ | thats strange, i still don't see why my $str = "cow"; if $str == "pig" | "hen" { print '1-sj'; } else { print '2-sj'; } returned 1-sj | 00:15 | |
| sjohnson | probably because "hen" returns true | 00:16 | |
| ash_ | i think junctions need to be used with smart match '~~' | ||
| sjohnson | rakudo: my $str = "cow"; if $str == "pig" | "0" { print '1-sj'; } else { print '2-sj'; } | ||
| p6eval | rakudo 77bf8c: 1-sj | ||
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| sjohnson | hmm....... | 00:16 | |
| colomon | sjohnson: you're using == for Str | ||
| sjohnson | not sure actually | ||
| colomon | shouldn't it be eq? | ||
| sjohnson | ahh yes | ||
| too much PHP programming today | |||
| ash_ | lol totally forgot about that | 00:17 | |
| sjohnson | rakudo: my $str = "cow"; if $str eq "pig" | "0" { print '1-sj'; } else { print '2-sj'; } | ||
| p6eval | rakudo 77bf8c: 2-sj | ||
| sjohnson | rakudo: my $str = "cow"; if $str eq "pig" | "hen" { print '1-sj'; } else { print '2-sj'; } | ||
| p6eval | rakudo 77bf8c: 2-sj | ||
| sjohnson | thansk colomon | ||
| <--- jaded PHP eyes today | |||
| ash_ | i have been looking at javascript all day, i was about to suggest === | 00:18 | |
| sjohnson | heh | 00:19 | |
| i was trying to do some .vimrc coding today | 00:20 | ||
| using a bunch of == signs | |||
| unfortunately, easy2lrn documentation with nice real-life examples wasn't easy to come by | |||
| decided to quit wasting work-time | |||
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| sjohnson | rakudo: my $i = 30; if 4 < $i < 50 { print 1; } | 00:30 | |
| p6eval | rakudo 77bf8c: 1 | ||
| sjohnson | rakudo: print (4 < 5).WHAT | ||
| p6eval | rakudo 77bf8c: Bool() | ||
| sjohnson | rakudo: print (4 < 5 < 40).WHAT | ||
| p6eval | rakudo 77bf8c: Bool() | ||
| colomon | Anyone have a quick pointer to the spec discussion on "so" (formerly "true"?)? | 00:33 | |
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| colomon | errr... I see S03, anything else? | 00:35 | |
| diakopter | colomon: I think groups.google.com/group/perl.perl6....301e6b859b | 00:39 | |
| colomon | Another question: is it expected subst will evaluate its $replacement in the context of the Regex match that it is being substituted for? | ||
| diakopter: thanks! | 00:40 | ||
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| dalek | kudo/ng: da89dd6 | (David Romano)++ | src/c (2 files): Remove &infix:<x> in cheats and update version in Any-str.pm modified: src/core/Any-str.pm |
01:18 | |
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| colomon | So many ng patches from unobe++ that dalek broke. Yay! | 01:20 | |
| sjohnson | heheh | 01:23 | |
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| sjohnson | std: local $goose; | 01:33 | |
| p6eval | std 29401: Potential difficulties: Variable $goose is not predeclared at /tmp/2Vqf82o4VK line 1:------> local $goose⏏;Undeclared routine: 'local' used at line 1ok 00:01 105m | ||
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| sjohnson | rakudo: if -e '/bin/ls' { print 1 } | 03:08 | |
| p6eval | rakudo 77bf8c: 1 | ||
| sjohnson | rakudo: if (-e | -r '/bin/ls') { print 1 } | ||
| p6eval | rakudo 77bf8c: Could not find non-existent sub rin Main (file src/gen_setting.pm, line 324) | ||
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| sjohnson | bad example.. | 03:11 | |
| diakopter | std: if -e '/bin/ls' { print 1 } | 03:17 | |
| p6eval | std 29401: ===SORRY!===Missing block at /tmp/LjNhPHxYDQ line 1:------> if -e ⏏'/bin/ls' { print 1 } expecting any of: infix or meta-infix infix stopper parameterized block standard stopper terminatorFAILED 00:01 105m | ||
| colomon | Isn't it something like | ||
| std: if '/bin/ls' ~~ :e { print 1 } | |||
| now? | |||
| p6eval | std 29401: ok 00:01 105m | ||
| diakopter | rakudo: if '/bin/ls' ~~ :e { print 1 } | 03:18 | |
| p6eval | rakudo 77bf8c: 1 | ||
| diakopter | rakudo: if '/bin/ls' ~~ :d { print 1 } | ||
| p6eval | rakudo 77bf8c: ( no output ) | ||
| diakopter | rakudo: if '/bin/ls' ~~ :d { print 1 } else { print 0 } | ||
| p6eval | rakudo 77bf8c: 0 | ||
| diakopter | rakudo: if '/bin/ls' ~~ :z { print 1 } else { print 0 } | ||
| p6eval | rakudo 77bf8c: Method ':z' not found for invocant of class 'Str'in Main (file src/gen_setting.pm, line 324) | ||
| diakopter | rakudo: if '/bin/ls' ~~ :f { print 1 } else { print 0 } | 03:19 | |
| p6eval | rakudo 77bf8c: 1 | ||
| diakopter | rakudo: if '/bin/ls' ~~ :F { print 1 } else { print 0 } | ||
| p6eval | rakudo 77bf8c: Method ':F' not found for invocant of class 'Str'in Main (file src/gen_setting.pm, line 324) | ||
| diakopter | cool | ||
| sjohnson | hmm | 03:20 | |
| is :e a symbol? | |||
| say :e.WHAT | |||
| rakudo: say :e.WHAT | |||
| p6eval | rakudo 77bf8c: Pair() | 03:21 | |
| sjohnson | rakudo: say :e.perl | ||
| p6eval | rakudo 77bf8c: "e" => 1 | ||
| sjohnson | rakudo: if '/bin/ls' ~~ :e | :d { print 1 } else { print 0 } | ||
| p6eval | rakudo 77bf8c: 1 | ||
| sjohnson | rakudo: if '/bin/ls' ~~ :e & :d { print 1 } else { print 0 } | ||
| p6eval | rakudo 77bf8c: 0 | ||
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| sjohnson | rakudo: say (:e).WHAT | 03:23 | |
| p6eval | rakudo 77bf8c: Pair() | ||
| sjohnson | rakudo: say (:e).perl | 03:24 | |
| p6eval | rakudo 77bf8c: "e" => 1 | ||
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| sjohnson | darn net splits | 03:49 | |
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| diakopter | TimToady: hihi | 05:21 | |
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| mberends | phenny, tell pmurias the V8 scons fails with errors on Ubuntu 9.10 gnu c++ 4.4.1 | 07:18 | |
| phenny | mberends: I'll pass that on when pmurias is around. | ||
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| mberends | hi bryan | 08:20 | |
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| meneldor | hello guys :) | 09:00 | |
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| Su-Shee | good morning | 09:31 | |
| diakopter | Su-Shee: hi | 09:33 | |
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| masak | I'm having loose thoughts of announcing another prize for Perl 6 software. | 12:25 | |
| any ideas what would make a good prize? | |||
| the theme, I mean, not the amount of money. | |||
| sbp | first full reimplementation of awk in perl6 | 12:29 | |
| masak | :) | 12:30 | |
| the good things about the wiki prize were, off the top of my head, (1) that it seemed pretty much unattainable at the time (2006), (2) that doing it required collaboration between several people, (3) that doing it caused bugs to be found and features to be developed. | 12:31 | ||
| hejki | masak: you know stuff about parrot internals ey? | 12:34 | |
| masak | hejki: whoever told you that is a liar and a coward. :) | ||
| hejki | ahh | ||
| masak | seriously, I don't know that much. | 12:35 | |
| hejki | i was just drawing conclusions about your operator status on #parrot :P | ||
| dang.. | |||
| masak | yes... making me op on #parrot was a strange move. | ||
| hejki | i didn't receive any reply concerning my S_ISLNK-macro patches :| | ||
| only thing i got in response was "i don't know.." :P | |||
| masak | hejki: so, you have complete patches and would like them to be committed, is that it? | 12:36 | |
| or you have patches and would like comment on them? | |||
| hejki | i have patches which seem to be done in a correct manner, however the S_ISLNK-macro doesn't seem to work as intended | ||
| and i could've used some debugging help from someone aware of parrot internals | 12:37 | ||
| i.e. am i missing some file, am i doing something awfully wrong.. etc | |||
| masak | nod. | ||
| hejki | ye | 12:38 | |
| masak | my best advice is to persist on #parrot. | ||
| hejki | plus i'm a bit sick now.. caught a xmas-flu | ||
| ye | |||
| i think i'll take a more deep dive into it after i get better | |||
| masak | the people there know their stuff, but they're awake and avaliable at different times of the day. | ||
| hejki | all the mucus makes me think slow | ||
| good thing about my patches are that the :l -implementation i patched locally for rakudo is returning different values after my patches applied to parrot :) | 12:39 | ||
| masak | :) | ||
| hejki | (i.e. it's not calling the S_ISREG-macro anymore, but instead calls the S_ISLNK-macro i defined. it's just not WAI :)) | ||
| also i think i need to take some time to check out ng-branch and examine it | 12:40 | ||
| (if i'm gonna try and make the {open,close,read}dir-stuff) | |||
| masak | hejki++ # rich in initiative | 12:42 | |
| hejki | karma hejki | 12:43 | |
| ;< | |||
| masak | lambdabot used to do that, but of late, it has strangely crept below our threshold of bot etiquette, so it got booted. | 12:44 | |
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| pmurias | mberends: could you nopaste the errors? | 12:45 | |
| phenny | pmurias: 07:18Z <mberends> tell pmurias the V8 scons fails with errors on Ubuntu 9.10 gnu c++ 4.4.1 | ||
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| takadonet | morning all | 13:07 | |
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| takadonet | hey masak | 13:23 | |
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| anonymous | ehlo | 13:41 | |
| takadonet | hello | 13:43 | |
| colomon | \o | ||
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| colomon | masak: funny you should mention a prize. My wife was just telling me I should ask to see if anyone had $work they needed done in the next three days. :) | 13:47 | |
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| anonymous | is rakudo a kind of VM for perl? Or is that parrot? | 13:51 | |
| hejki | that's parrot. rakudo is an interpreter that runs on parrot. at least that's how i've understood it :) | 13:52 | |
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| colomon | hejki is correct | 13:53 | |
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| hejki | rakudo might be a compiler on parrot as well (instead of interpreter), atm i'm not sure if compiling actually works - so i'm not sure if it deserves to be called a compiler :P | 13:54 | |
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| colomon | It definitely compiles to PIR, which is the Parrot VM's language. | 13:58 | |
| tomasp.net/blog/accelerator-life-game.aspx | |||
| anonymous | thx | ||
| colomon | I'm pondering how to implement Life relatively efficiently in p6... | ||
| anonymous | implementing life is indeed a difficult thing ... ;) | 13:59 | |
| sry | |||
| nm | 14:00 | ||
| rodi | colomon: I have implemented some other cellular automata in Perl6, though nothing approaching relative efficiency. | 14:05 | |
| In theory, autothreading should be a big boost on any cellular automata, but the current implementations don't (yet) benefit from it much. | 14:06 | ||
| hejki | colomon: woot.. how do i compile something into PIR? | ||
| colomon: and shouldn't parrot be able to make PIR -> runnable binarry? | |||
| s/rry/ry/; | |||
| colomon | hejki: gotta run, alas, but look at the build stuff in a proto package like SVG... "standard" Configure.pm builds to pir. | 14:09 | |
| actually, that is done in Test.pm in standard RAkudo build, too. | |||
| afk | |||
| hejki | oh | 14:10 | |
| nice.. i'll check it out at some point. TFTI | |||
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| masak | colomon: I don't know about work that needs to be done, but I would like to set expectations/goals/dreams a bit higher with a slightly ambitious prize. | 14:21 | |
| I'm thinking fairly long-term, like the wiki prize was. | 14:22 | ||
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| hejki | masak: ~~ :l implementation done with the File.'is_link' -method call :) | 15:24 | |
| masak | \o/ | ||
| hejki | care to test out and possibly push it? it's not pretty, but at least it seems to WAI for me | ||
| masak | feel free to nopaste. | 15:25 | |
| hejki | pastie.org/760061 | 15:26 | |
| based on my test-script it should work correctluy | |||
| s/uy$$/y/; | |||
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| hejki | woot.. file.pmc's is_link-method actually does use S_ISLNK-macro :D | 15:27 | |
| guess the PMC-stuff is kept separate from opcodes | |||
| (see src/pmc/file.pmc row 146 ->) | 15:28 | ||
| funny :) | |||
| masak | the patch looks OK to me. | 15:30 | |
| applying. | |||
| pushed. hejki++ | 15:32 | ||
| dalek | kudo/master: db84bc0 | masak++ | src/builtins/any-str.pir: [src/builtins/any-str.pir] implemented :l |
15:33 | |
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| KyleHa | Yay for patches. | 15:43 | |
| masak | indeed. | 15:46 | |
| hejki | well i kinda need 'em in something i'm making :) | ||
| same goes with the {open,close,read}dir-stuff | |||
| it seems to be harder and bigger operation to implement tho :) | |||
| masak | what are you making? | 15:48 | |
| hejki | something that offers file operations such as finding, recursive listing and stuff | 15:49 | |
| a helper library for future projects | |||
| (i'm kinda used to one i used back with perl5 :)) | 15:50 | ||
| nothing big/stupendous | |||
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| hejki | wouldn't be hard to make with the qx{ls -l}-way either, i just don't think using hack-a-rounds in a non-complete language is worse than actually putting in some effort and possibly implement features someone else might need in the future as well | 15:51 | |
| masak | I like that attitude. | 15:54 | |
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| hejki | heh.. doing things "properly" should be the de facto attitude imo :) | 15:56 | |
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| KyleHa | There's something recursive about that statement, but I'm too distracted to restate it properly. | 15:56 | |
| masak | yes. I default to 'doing things properly', but often fold to 'getting things working, like, now'. | 15:57 | |
| hejki | masak: that's usually my way in the "real world applications" i.e. work-assignments | ||
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| hejki | masak: but what comes to OSS, i prefer not folding into the simpler way :) | 15:58 | |
| masak | :) | ||
| hejki | i'm not paid for what i do, so i just might do it properly and not care about the time spent :) | ||
| and if it in the best case scenario promotes perl6 progress .. well that could be analogised into a HUGE xmas-bonus :) | 15:59 | ||
| masak | I often have a short-term goal which would get lost or diluted if I followed up on all 'proper' leads. so I often just leave a '# RAKUDO' comment and move on. | ||
| oh, but I almost always make sure there's at least an RT ticket. :) | |||
| hejki | i could do that too. but i've documentend the library i'm making and i know what i need for it (that's missing from rakudo :)) | ||
| this way i get a nice "todo"-list for myself about features i could try implementing into rakudo :) | 16:00 | ||
| masak | rakudo: print(print (5+2)+10) | 16:02 | |
| p6eval | rakudo 77bf8c: 171 | ||
| masak | perl6: print(print (5+2)+10) | ||
| p6eval | elf 29415, pugs, rakudo 77bf8c: 171 | ||
| masak | why does Perl 6 print 171 here, while perl prints 711? perlmonks.org/?node_id=814766 | ||
| oh, I see it now. | 16:03 | ||
| colomon | how can 711 be right? | ||
| masak | colomon: it's because of the parsing of whitespace after function names. | ||
| colomon: it's 7 and then 11. | |||
| 5 + 2 == 7 | |||
| colomon | I see. | ||
| masak | and 1 (the result of print) + 10 == 11 | 16:04 | |
| Perl 6 implementations print 17 and then 1. | |||
| colomon | glad to know my instincts agree with Perl 6 here. :) | ||
| rjbs | Well, the right answer is: don't do that | 16:05 | |
| colomon | What was the story on the wiki prize? I think that must have been before my time hanging around here. | ||
| masak | I'll write on PerlMonks (in a sufficiently respectful/humble tone) that Perl 6 aligns its results better with the poster's expectations. :) | ||
| colomon: www.perlfoundation.org/perl6/index...._schneiker yapc.tv/2008/ye/lt/lt2-01-masak-vil...-november/ | 16:06 | ||
| hejki | thus perl6 is a natural DWIM-language | ||
| :> | |||
| colomon | masak: thanks | ||
| masak | hejki: yes, that's the idea. though Perl 6 has its own pitfalls, to be sure. | 16:07 | |
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| colomon | I certainly never think of print or say as proper functions, really. I would never put parens around their arguments, for instance. | 16:08 | |
| hejki | anything that is supposed to have one objective way and is dealt with subjective randomness has its own pitfalls and caveats :P | ||
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| hejki | rakudo: sub ö { say "foo" }; ö() | 16:15 | |
| p6eval | rakudo db84bc: foo | ||
| hejki | rakudo: sub ♬ { say "foo" }; ♬() | ||
| colomon | masak: that was a terrific lightning talk. | ||
| p6eval | rakudo db84bc: Malformed routine definition at line 2, near "\u266c { say \"f"in Main (file <unknown>, line <unknown>) | ||
| colomon | molasses-ware!!! | 16:16 | |
| only glancingly touched on the prize issue. | |||
| :) | |||
| hejki | not all unicode is supported yet? | ||
| colomon | rakudo | ||
| rakudo: sub prefix:<♬>($note) { say $note; }; ♬"A"; | 16:17 | ||
| p6eval | rakudo db84bc: A | ||
| masak | colomon: thanks. well, the prize was only a minor part of why we did it. :) | ||
| colomon | I'm sure. You had to be brave souls to try to do anything with Rakudo that early. | 16:18 | |
| has the wiki prize not been won yet, then? | |||
| www.perlfoundation.org/perl6/index...._schneiker | |||
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| masak | colomon: use.perl.org/~masak/journal/38601 | 16:28 | |
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| colomon | "I'm crashing Rakudo today, so that it won't crash for you tomorrow. That’s how I like to think of it." ;) | 16:30 | |
| masak | still is. :) | ||
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| ash_ | masak is a bug finding robot, with a bit of a chatbot duct taped on | 16:32 | |
| colomon | Occurs to me that when I get depressed about Rakudo's current rate of progress, I should just remember what it was like a year ago. :) | 16:33 | |
| KyleHa | Hey, five bugs shy of 600. Time flies when you're writing code. | ||
| Yeah, a year ago there were probably only like 300 open bugs. | 16:34 | ||
| rjbs | Progress+ | ||
| Progress++ | |||
| masak | it was easier to get an overview when there were only 300 :) nowadays I'm not as sure how many duplicates I'm submitting. | 16:37 | |
| hejki | is there any articles on reasons for unicode-motivation? | 16:39 | |
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| masak | hejki: in trying to parse the noun phrase 'reasons for unicode-motivation', I fail. | 16:50 | |
| hejki | i'll rephrase: is there any articles on why unicode is our friend and not a foe :) | 16:51 | |
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| rjbs | I don't think anyone ever thought that was in question. | 16:51 | |
| masak | me neither. | ||
| rjbs | What's the alternative? | ||
| ASCII? | |||
| masak | EBCDIC. | 16:52 | |
| rjbs | EBCDASCIIC | ||
| xalbo | perl6: regex test-case {foo}; say "foo" ~~ /<test-case>/; | ||
| p6eval | rakudo db84bc: Confused at line 2, near "~~ /<test-"in Main (file <unknown>, line <unknown>) | ||
| ..pugs: ***  Unexpected "-" expecting subroutine parameters, ":", "is" or "{" at /tmp/cXtBbBhMPZ line 1, column 11 | |||
| ..elf 29415: Undefined subroutine &GLOBAL::test called at (eval 129) line 3. at ./elf_h line 5881 | |||
| masak | xalbo: Rakudo seems to choke on the '-'. that's a known bug. | 16:53 | |
| arnsholt | hejki: The short answer is that it's the only truly interoperable character set | ||
| xalbo | Ok. I couldn't find it in the bug tracker. | ||
| hejki | well i think there should be something to govern pros and cons of using unicode | ||
| i know of some perl5 actives who strongly disagree with the unicode-syntax | 16:54 | ||
| arnsholt | If you want a single document with Greek, Cyrillic and Latin text all in one, there isn't really anything else that works | ||
| masak | xalbo: rt.perl.org/rt3/Ticket/Display.html?id=64464 | ||
| arnsholt | Sure, there's an additional burden for those who have to implement it, but it simply is the best solution for text encoding | 16:55 | |
| xalbo | masak: Thanks! Here I was searching for "hyphen" and "identifier". | 16:56 | |
| pmichaud | good morning, #perl6 | ||
| masak | xalbo: I searched for 'regex', narrowed to the 'perl6' queue, and then just visually scanned the 50 or so remaining hits. | ||
| colomon | o/ | ||
| masak | pmichaud: morning! | ||
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| pugs_svn | r29416 | kyle++ | [t/spec] Test for RT 71704: "x !! y" should be a parse error | 17:02 | |
| r29417 | kyle++ | [t/spec] Test for RT 71702: lethal reverse range in charset | |||
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| pmichaud | (silence) ...what it something I said? ;-) | 17:02 | |
| pugs_svn | r29418 | kyle++ | [t/spec] Test for RT 71706: Null PMC Access | ||
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| pmichaud | *was | 17:03 | |
| masak | pmichaud: I have questions for you, but I didn't want to overwhelm you :) | ||
| pmichaud | ah. | 17:04 | |
| yeah, I decided I needed a bit of a break this past week. :-| | |||
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| masak | that's allowed, last time I checked the rules. :) | 17:04 | |
| good time of year for a break, at that. | 17:05 | ||
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| pmichaud | well, I also figure the next four months are likely to be pretty full :-) | 17:05 | |
| masak | that sounds likely, yes. | ||
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| ash_ | is that because rakudo*? | 17:06 | |
| pmichaud | ash_: yes. | ||
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| ash_ | i am already planning on at least 1 app I am going to write with it, well already working on it, but hit a wall, so... just waiting till either I can figure out how to help fix the bug, or someone else beats me to it | 17:08 | |
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| masak | ash_: what's the bug? | 17:08 | |
| ash_ | role's with ^methods don't get their ^methods added to the RoleHOW properly in ng | 17:09 | |
| so, you can't override things like ^compose | 17:10 | ||
| which is something i'd need to override | |||
| masak | ah. | 17:11 | |
| I'm surprised you're writing apps with ng already. | |||
| ash_ | well, Master branch rakudo doesn't let me do some of the things i wanted to with roles, plus if ng is going to replace master one day i figured i might as well get it working with that | 17:12 | |
| masak | nod. | 17:13 | |
| I'm not saying it's the wrong things to do. just that it might be a bit of a... bumpy ride. at least before ng lands. | 17:14 | ||
| ash_ | eventually, its supposed to be role based persistence, so you can just add the role to an object (hopefully both at runtime and at class composition time) and it gets some magic .save and .^get methods | ||
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| masak | cool. | 17:15 | |
| pmichaud | afk, lunch | ||
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| ash_ | hopefully, tonight or tomorrow I might try tackling the issue of ^methods getting added to the RoleHOW of a role properly, (and ClassHOW for classes because those don't work currently either) | 17:18 | |
| takadonet | ash_: what app are you writing? | 17:19 | |
| ash_ | eventually, its supposed to be role based persistence, so you can just add the role to an object (hopefully both at runtime and at class composition time) and it gets some magic .save and .^get methods | 17:20 | |
| well, maybe i shouldn't call it an app, more a library | |||
| takadonet | sounds like my project :) | 17:21 | |
| masak | why the hat on .^get? | ||
| proto objects != metaclasses. | |||
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| ash_ | masak: well, my intention is to do Class.^get(id); so you can do like Book.^get(:author => "A guy"); | 17:24 | |
| eventually | |||
| masak | yes... | 17:25 | |
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| masak | ...but you can do that without the metaclass ^ -- just put the method on the class, as usual. | 17:25 | |
| and call it with Class.get(id) | |||
| ash_ | well, i thought Class.method()'s where really meta class methods | 17:26 | |
| masak | no, they're ordinary instance methods. | ||
| ash_ | perlcabal.org/syn/S12.html#Class_methods | ||
| masak | it's just that the instance happens to be an uninitialized proto-object representing the class. | 17:27 | |
| ash_ | ah, i think i am mis-reading that section | ||
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| masak | rakudo: class A {}; say A.new.isa(A) | 17:27 | |
| p6eval | rakudo db84bc: ( no output ) | ||
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| masak | locally, 1. | 17:28 | |
| rakudo: class A {}; say A.isa(A) | |||
| locally, also 1. | |||
| p6eval | rakudo db84bc: ( no output ) | ||
| ash_ | rakudo i think still timesout when you use classes | ||
| masak | that's because the object A is acutally an instance of the class A. | ||
| ash_: aye. | |||
| ash_ | ng: class A { }; say A.isa(A); | ||
| p6eval | ng 4e4d82: 1 | ||
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| masak | in general, meta classes are only needed when you want to change the way OO in Perl 6 behaves. | 17:29 | |
| ash_ | ng: class A { method get { return 'a' } }; my A.get; | ||
| p6eval | ng 4e4d82: In "my" declaration, typename A must be predeclared (or marked as declarative with :: prefix) at line 1, near ".get;"current instr.: 'perl6;HLL;Grammar;panic' pc 500 (src/stage0/HLL-s0.pir:328) | ||
| ash_ | oops | ||
| ng: class A { method get { return 'a' } }; say A.get; | |||
| p6eval | ng 4e4d82: a | ||
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| ash_ | ng: class A { method get { return self} }; say A.get; | 17:30 | |
| p6eval | ng 4e4d82: A() | ||
| ash_ | hmmm | ||
| so... self in some cases is an instance or a class then? | 17:31 | ||
| masak | it's an instance. | ||
| ash_ | ng: class A { method get { return 'a' } }; my $a = A.new; say $a.get; say A.get; | ||
| p6eval | ng 4e4d82: aa | ||
| masak | it just gets printed as 'A()' | ||
| ash_ | ng: class A { method get { return self } }; my $a = A.new; say $a.get; say A.get; | ||
| p6eval | ng 4e4d82: A() | ||
| masak | because that's the common way objects get stringified. | ||
| ash_ | ah | 17:32 | |
| masak | I don't know why the last one only prints one line. | ||
| it should have printed two identical lines. | |||
| masak tests locally | |||
| ash_ | $a is returning '' | 17:33 | |
| ng: class A { method get { return self }; method Str { 'a' } }; my $a = A.new; say 1, $a.get; say 2, A.get; | 17:34 | ||
| p6eval | ng 4e4d82: 1a2A() | ||
| ash_ | ng: class A { method get { return self }; method Str { 'a' } }; my \$a = A.new; say 1, \$a.get; say 2, A.get.WHAT; | ||
| p6eval | ng 4e4d82: Malformed my at line 1, near "\\$a = A.ne"current instr.: 'perl6;HLL;Grammar;panic' pc 500 (src/stage0/HLL-s0.pir:328) | ||
| ash_ | ng: class A { method get { return self }; method Str { 'a' } }; my \$a = A.new; say 1, \$a.get; say 2, A.get().WHAT; | 17:35 | |
| p6eval | ng 4e4d82: Malformed my at line 1, near "\\$a = A.ne"current instr.: 'perl6;HLL;Grammar;panic' pc 500 (src/stage0/HLL-s0.pir:328) | ||
| ash_ | ng: class A { method get { return self }; method Str { 'a' } }; my $a = A.new; say 1, $a.get; say 2, A.get().WHAT; | ||
| p6eval | ng 4e4d82: 1a2A() | ||
| masak | there's something funny going on there. | ||
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| ash_ | ng: class A { }; say A; say A.WHAT; say A.WHAT.WHAT; | 17:37 | |
| p6eval | ng 4e4d82: A()A()A() | ||
| ash_ | and on it goes, thats odd | ||
| i think i ran into this before | |||
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| masak | well, that last one is fine. | 17:38 | |
| .WHAT returns the proto-object. | |||
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| masak | but I don't see why the custom .Str shouldn't get called on the proto-object as well. | 17:39 | |
| ash_ | ng: class A { }; say (A.^parents).WHAT; | ||
| p6eval | ng 4e4d82: Method 'WHAT' not found for invocant of class 'ResizablePMCArray'current instr.: '_block14' pc 29 (EVAL_1:0) | ||
| ash_ | hmm | ||
| it leaked a parrot object into ng, thats no good | 17:40 | ||
| masak | or why, without a custom .Str, the program `say A.new.get; say A.get` prints only one line. | ||
| ash_: yeah. too bad we don't report ng failures as bugs... | |||
| ash_ | does Mu's .Str return ''? | ||
| isn't it Mu that all objects inherit from in ng? | 17:41 | ||
| masak | yeah, directly or indirectly. | 17:42 | |
| arnsholt | I think so | ||
| masak | most normal objects inherit from Any, which inherits from Mu. | ||
| ash_ | i think it has to do with 1's an instance object and 1's a proto-object | 17:46 | |
| masak | well, they're not supposed to be that different. :) | 17:48 | |
| rjbs | what is .^parents? parent classes of the thing's WHAT? | 17:49 | |
| is there an easy place for me to get that answer for myself? | |||
| ash_ | S12 | 17:50 | |
| perlcabal.org/syn/S12.html talks about .^ methods | |||
| masak | rjbs: also see use.perl.org/~JonathanWorthington/journal/39455 | 17:51 | |
| ash_ | .^parents should return a list of parents of the object, and .WHAT should return the type whatever it is, like 5.WHAT returns Int | ||
| rjbs | is that because the OO is sorta prototype-based? | 17:52 | |
| ash_ | $obj.^method(); methods are actualy translated into $obj.HOW.method($obj); | ||
| rjbs | Does S12 describe the MOP? | ||
| (Sorry, I should look at this myself; I'm distracted and in a meeting. :)) | |||
| ash_ | ummm S12 mentions the MOP but i think thats still kinda changing, it just talks about the OO setup | 17:53 | |
| masak | rjbs: yes, Perl 6 is sorta prototype-based. no, S12 hints at the MOP but doesn't fully describe it. | ||
| rjbs | Ok. Thanks! | ||
| ash_ | you can do prototype based if you want, or classical inheritance too | ||
| masak | rjbs: the best descriptiong of the MOP to date is jnthn's document, somewhere in the ng branch. | ||
| ash_ | docs/metamodel.pod | 17:54 | |
| in the ng branch | |||
| masak | nod. | ||
| github.com/rakudo/rakudo/blob/ng/do...amodel.pod | |||
| rjbs | thanks, I'll try to make time to read it; I look forward to it | ||
| masak | it's a good read. | 17:55 | |
| I'm currently reading through the Moose tests in order to contrast and compare. | |||
| hey, the declining visitor trend for the advent blog has been broken. yesterday and today, it turned upwards again! :) | 17:56 | ||
| guess people are back to work. :P | |||
| ash_ | i liked the advent calendar, there should be a countdown calendar for rakudo* | 17:57 | |
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| ash_ | use.perl.org's layout looks funny in Chromium 4 in OS X... | 17:59 | |
| takadonet | masak: good to hear. I vist the advent calendar all the bloody time | ||
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| diakopter | hmm | 18:20 | |
| takadonet | masak: How many visitor are we getting for the advent calendar per day? Couple hundred? thousand? | ||
| masak | couple hundred. | ||
| moritz_ | takadonet: we had 40k page views in 23 days or so | 18:21 | |
| diakopter | that accounts for the couple hundred rss aggregator servers | ||
| masak | it was more or less an even thousand per day after it stabilized after the slashdotting. | ||
| moritz_: oh hai | |||
| hejki | rakudo: say 40_000/23; | ||
| p6eval | rakudo db84bc: 1739.13043478261 | ||
| takadonet | good old slashdotting | ||
| masak | then on the 21st it started plummetting, at 100 per day. and yesterday it turned upwards again. | 18:22 | |
| guess people got temporarily distracted by the holidays. | |||
| mdxi | a page (like the about page) which lists all the entries in chronological order, with a precis for each, might be nice | 18:23 | |
| or maybe that would be better as a capping entry? dunno. | 18:24 | ||
| takadonet | mdxi: perl6.cz/wiki/Perl_6_and_Parrot_links#2009 | ||
| moritz_ | I thought we had such a thing already | ||
| mdxi | apparently there is | 18:25 | |
| masak | food & | 18:26 | |
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| colomon | First page of the Advent calendar is a table of contents with each day in it. No precis, though. | 18:27 | |
| moritz_ | perl6advent.wordpress.com/2009/12/0...-calendar/ | 18:28 | |
| it wouldn't hurt to link to that page somewhere in the navigation bar | |||
| but I have to run for food, sorry that I can't do it myself | |||
| diakopter | also, it'd be nice if that page had a '2009' in the title | ||
| moritz_ | bye | ||
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| supernovus | is it possible to export constants, for reuse in other classes? Something like: constant HI is export = "Hello world"; (which doesn't currently work in Rakudo main) | 18:56 | |
| TimToady | supernovus: STD does it, but I don't think rakudo does yet | 18:59 | |
| std: onstant HI is export = "Hello world"; | |||
| p6eval | std 29401: ===SORRY!===Preceding context expects a term, but found infix = instead at /tmp/Y107MUmAAD line 1:------> onstant HI is export =⏏ "Hello world";FAILED 00:01 105m | ||
| TimToady | std: constant HI is export = "Hello world"; | ||
| p6eval | std 29401: ok 00:01 105m | ||
| supernovus | TimToady: thanks, it seemed like something that should work. I'll try it out on the 'ng' branch and see what it does :-) | 19:01 | |
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| rjbs | what does the eject symbol stand for in the p6eval output? | 19:07 | |
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| KyleHa | rjbs: That dingus at the end is the newline char. | 19:08 | |
| rakudo: say 'hi'; | 19:09 | ||
| TimToady | the eject symbol is the current parse position | ||
| p6eval | rakudo db84bc: hi | ||
| KyleHa | rakudo: print 'hi'; | ||
| p6eval | rakudo db84bc: hi | ||
| colomon | I'm pretty sure constant doesn't work yet in ng. | ||
| TimToady | and if you're on a colored output, separates the green "parsed okay" section from the red "didn't parse" section | 19:10 | |
| colomon | At least, my last attempts to define pi as a constant there failed. | ||
| rjbs | TimToady: thanks | ||
| I think I'd realized that once before in an example wher eit was clearer, and I was frustrated at not remembering what it was :) | 19:11 | ||
| TimToady | we put the eject symbol there for people who are red/green colorblind, in fact | ||
| supernovus | colomon: okay, thanks. In master it seems constant declaration works, and it doesn't complain if you add the 'is export' but when you import the module into another package, it doesn't recognize the exported symbols. | 19:14 | |
| takadonet | TimToady: What about people that are fully colorblind? :) | ||
| TimToady | then they'll have to avoid using the ⏏ shape in their program :) | ||
| so that it remains distinctive | |||
| or they can change it via env vra | 19:15 | ||
| *var | |||
| takadonet | well looks like I will be doing that then | ||
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| TimToady | you don't like the eject symbol? it seems rather appropriate, in a basebally 'you're outta here' sense :) | 19:19 | |
| or in a jet fighter sense, now that I think of it... | 19:21 | ||
| ash_ | so, with methods on a class, is there a way to tell if its the class calling it vs an instance? like MyClass.method() vs $instance.method() | ||
| TimToady | specced that you can subtype the invocant with :U and :D, but NYI | 19:22 | |
| colomon | in the former case self is not defined? (he guessed) | ||
| :U and :D? | |||
| TimToady | undefined and defined subset types, basically | 19:23 | |
| method foo (Mytype:U $self: @args) will only match undefined $self | |||
| but yes, you could test self.defined | 19:24 | ||
| mdxi | clearly we need a glyph LEFT POINTING REFEREE HOLDING ALOFT PENALTY CARD or similar | ||
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| ash_ | ng: class A { method foo { self.defined } }; say A.foo; say A.new.foo; | 19:25 | |
| p6eval | ng 4e4d82: 01 | ||
| ash_ | okay, cool | ||
| thanks, didn't know about that | |||
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| TimToady | decommuting from Seattle Children's... & | 19:26 | |
| colomon | Just got a message (comment approval, but I don't know if I should) asking what the license is on the p6 Advent calendar. | ||
| don't think we ever addressed that.... | 19:27 | ||
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| ash_ | is there anywhere in the spec that talks about having to do things like use strict; on every file? is there a way to specify a folder or something that it will apply to? | 19:57 | |
| or maybe a namespace? | 19:58 | ||
| Tene | ash_: strict is on by default. | 20:01 | |
| ash_: I don't know of any implementation that support turning strict off. | |||
| ash_ | but can you specify your own things to that will be included in multiple files? so you only have to do it once | 20:02 | |
| Tene | Oh. Dunno. | ||
| sjohnson | p6 Q: is there a "!when" to the given / when structure? like... "not" or "no" "didnot" or something | 20:21 | |
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| mberends | sjohnson: default { ... } should do it | 20:22 | |
| perlcabal.org/syn/S04.html#Switch_statements | 20:23 | ||
| ash_ | how are attributes inherited in perl 6? are 'our' type variables shared between parent's and children? | 20:26 | |
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| colomon | sjohnson: you mean "when not" or default? | 20:27 | |
| sjohnson | colomon: when not yeah | ||
| much like if / unless | 20:28 | ||
| is when not the way? | |||
| colomon | good question | ||
| There is a !~~ (or is it !~ ?) | 20:29 | ||
| to go with smartmatch. But I don't know how to access it from a when statement. | |||
| ash_ | $_ right? | 20:30 | |
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| ash_ | you'd do: when $_ !~~ something { ... } i think | 20:30 | |
| spinclad | i think 'if $_ !~~ ...' instead of when; when still means 'if $_ ~~ ...' | 20:31 | |
| but that loses the implicit succeed | 20:32 | ||
| sjohnson | indeed | 20:33 | |
| <-- worried | |||
| ash_ | well, when blocks still have the ability to jump to the next block and default, so if your in a given i don't see why not to use when | 20:34 | |
| sjohnson | also the implicit $_ | ||
| ash_: the thought came to me when doing some p5 given/whens, and i realized that i kind of wanted to do when not (-f) | 20:35 | ||
| err, bad example | |||
| spinclad | when !:f, if that worked | ||
| sjohnson | yeah | ||
| just realized that p6 trick | |||
| spinclad | when :f(0), maybe | 20:36 | |
| ash_ | yeah, i see your point | ||
| sjohnson | would be kind of cool to do a when not (:f) as i use "unless" like this all the time, and i figure whoever blessed {} us with unless might be nice enough to consider this too | ||
| ash_ | there is an: if $_ ~~ ... but not an: unless $_ ~~ ... | ||
| sjohnson | i enjoy the happiness if not having to write the $_ part | 20:38 | |
| diakopter | std: :!e!$_ # what does this mean | ||
| p6eval | std 29401: ok 00:01 105m | ||
| sjohnson | and the ! i suppose too | ||
| spinclad | iwbni '~~ !<pattern>' meant '!~~ <pattern>', then 'when !<pattern>' would do it | ||
| ash_ | macro prefix:<when not>(*$var) { return 'when $_ !~~' ~ $var; } | 20:39 | |
| okay that macro probably wouldn't work but eh /shrug | |||
| a 'when not' makes sense if you consider when to equate to if $_ ~~ | 20:40 | ||
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| sjohnson | woudln't the when not simply be "if $_ !~" | 20:41 | |
| ash_ | sjohnson: you can probably bring it up in the mailing list, i am sure other's would agree that a 'when not' (maybe not by that name) makes sense to have | 20:42 | |
| sjohnson | thanks for the support ash_++ | ||
| and encouragement | |||
| ash_ | from S03: A negated smart match is spelled !~~. | 20:43 | |
| sjohnson | ... and tip | ||
| :) | |||
| ash_ | i am not sure what !~ would do | ||
| not + stringify? | |||
| sjohnson | only one way to find out | 20:44 | |
| rakudo: say ~!"1000" | 20:45 | ||
| p6eval | rakudo db84bc: 0 | ||
| sjohnson | rakudo: say (~!"1000").WHAT | ||
| p6eval | rakudo db84bc: Str() | ||
| sjohnson | looks like your guess is correct | ||
| colomon | rakudo: say !~"1000"; | ||
| sjohnson | educated guess that is | ||
| p6eval | rakudo db84bc: 0 | ||
| colomon | rakudo: say (!~"1000").WHAT | 20:46 | |
| p6eval | rakudo db84bc: Bool() | ||
| sjohnson | oops i got it backwards | ||
| oopsie daisy | 20:47 | ||
| rakudo say (5!).WHAT | 20:48 | ||
| rakudo: say (5!).WHAT | |||
| p6eval | rakudo db84bc: Confused at line 2, near "!).WHAT"in Main (file <unknown>, line <unknown>) | ||
| sjohnson | i thought there was a fib. sequence thing with the ! | ||
| ash_ | sjohnson: not built in by default, but you can write one easy | 20:49 | |
| sjohnson | ahh i just thought it was in there that's all | ||
| ash_ | perlgeek.de/blog-en/perl-6/custom-o...akudo.html | ||
| moritz_++ | |||
| so, here's an odd question. If you define methods on a role with ^ in the name, and compose that into a class, should those methods be added to the classes HOW? | 20:55 | ||
| sjohnson | do you mean "how should..." as your question? | 20:56 | |
| ash_ | well, should they be added into the class at all? | 20:57 | |
| sjohnson | not sure | 20:58 | |
| ash_ | i suppose if you didn't want them added to the class you could call them submethods instead of methods | 20:59 | |
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| hejki | rakudo: say ((4,9,16)>>.sqrt == (2,3,5)) | 21:01 | |
| p6eval | rakudo db84bc: 1 | ||
| hejki | rakudo: say (((4,9,16)>>.sqrt) == (2,3,5)) | ||
| p6eval | rakudo db84bc: 1 | ||
| hejki | rakudo: say ((4,9,16)>>.sqrt).WHAT) | 21:02 | |
| p6eval | rakudo db84bc: Syntax error at line 2, near ")"in Main (file <unknown>, line <unknown>) | ||
| hejki | rakudo: say ((4,9,16)>>.sqrt).WHAT | ||
| p6eval | rakudo db84bc: Array() | ||
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| hejki | a side effect? | 21:02 | |
| rakudo: ((4,9,16)>>.sqrt).say | |||
| p6eval | rakudo db84bc: 234 | ||
| lisppaste3 | mberends32 pasted "V8 build failure log for pmurias" at paste.lisp.org/display/92785 | 21:03 | |
| hejki | or am i just drunk? :P | 21:04 | |
| spinclad | ash_: but how would you call them, when $obj.^method(...) means $obj.HOW.method($obj,...) instead? | ||
| hejki | rakudo: my @ar = 1,2,3; my @ar2 = 1,2,3; say @ar == @ar2; say @ar === @ar2;' | ||
| p6eval | rakudo db84bc: Syntax error at line 2, near "'"in Main (file <unknown>, line <unknown>) | ||
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| hejki | rakudo: my @ar = 1,2,3; my @ar2 = 1,2,3; say @ar == @ar2; say @ar === @ar2; | 21:04 | |
| p6eval | rakudo db84bc: 10 | ||
| ash_ | spinclad: you can do RoleName.^method; | 21:05 | |
| spinclad | which is RoleName.HOW.method(RoleName...) ? | 21:06 | |
| $obj."^method" might work | |||
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| spinclad | if you can shoehorn the defn into the right place | 21:07 | |
| colomon | hejki: what were you trying to do back there? | ||
| ash_ | spinclad: i am not sure i understand the problem your talking about | ||
| hejki | colomon: in the sqrt-part? i get an array from (4,9,16)>>.sqrt and i try to == compare it to another array (2,3,5) but it prints 11 | 21:08 | |
| 1* | |||
| spinclad | the problem of referring to a method named '^method' | ||
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| colomon | hejki: 1 is the printable version of Bool::True | 21:09 | |
| hejki | sure | ||
| but mine should return 0 | |||
| spinclad | ah, nm, i misread your question from the start. SRY. | ||
| colomon | Oh, == doesn't work on arrays | 21:10 | |
| hejki | woot | ||
| ash_ | spinclad: lets work with an example, so i am referring to if you did: role Foo { method ^bar { } }; class Fooz does Foo { }; then you can do Foo.^bar; | ||
| colomon | you're comparing +(2,3,4) with +(3,4,5) | ||
| which is 3 in both cases | |||
| hejki | ahh | ||
| colomon | (ie, the length of the array) | ||
| hejki | how to compare arrays then? | ||
| colomon | say (2,3,4) === (3, 4,5) | ||
| (maybe?) | |||
| rakudo: say (2,3,4) === (3, 4,5) | |||
| hejki | nope | ||
| p6eval | rakudo db84bc: 0 | 21:11 | |
| hejki | that checks if they're the SAME array | ||
| colomon | rakudo: say (2,3,4) === (2,3,4) | ||
| p6eval | rakudo db84bc: 0 | ||
| colomon | oh! | ||
| hejki | yes | ||
| colomon | rakudo: say ((2,3,4) >>==<< (3, 4, 5)).perl | ||
| p6eval | rakudo db84bc: [Bool::False, Bool::False, Bool::False] | ||
| hejki | rakudo: say (1,2,3) eqv (1,2,3); say (1,2,3) eqv (2,3,4) | 21:12 | |
| p6eval | rakudo db84bc: 10 | ||
| colomon | rakudo: say (2, 3, 4) cmp (3, 4, 5) | ||
| hejki | :) | ||
| p6eval | rakudo db84bc: Multiple Dispatch: No suitable candidate found for 'cmp', with signature 'PP->I'in Main (file <unknown>, line <unknown>) | ||
| hejki | eqv | ||
| that works | |||
| colomon | there you go. :) | ||
| hejki | ye :) | 21:13 | |
| == is more logical tho .. | |||
| ash_ | hejki: you can do an infix == if you want to compare 2 lists | 21:14 | |
| hejki | sure | ||
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| hejki | and map it as eqv :> | 21:14 | |
| "map" | |||
| first i thought it was some bug in rakudo, but i just had a severe brainfart going on | |||
| time for bed now.. laters dudes o/ | 21:15 | ||
| sjohnson | cya! | ||
| colomon | ash_: do you mean hyper == ? | ||
| ash_ | ah, i see the issue, ==, !=, <, <=, >, >= all convert to Num before comparing | 21:16 | |
| eq ne lt le gt ge all convert to Str before comparing | |||
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| ash_ | perlcabal.org/syn/S03.html#Chaining...precedence talks about those operators | 21:17 | |
| lol, again it boils down to the fact that you almost always can use ~~ and get the right comparison | 21:18 | ||
| rakudo: say (1, 2, 3) ~~ (1, 2, 3); say (1, 2, 3) ~~ (1, 2, 4); | |||
| p6eval | rakudo db84bc: 10 | ||
| colomon | go smartmatch! | ||
| sjohnson | rakudo: say (1, 3, 2) ~~ (1, 2, 3); | 21:21 | |
| p6eval | rakudo db84bc: 0 | ||
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| sjohnson | rakudo: say (1, 3, 2).sort ~~ (1, 2, 3); | 21:23 | |
| p6eval | rakudo db84bc: 1 | ||
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| pmurias | ash_: you could write your own module which would include a bunch of things | 21:25 | |
| ash_ | pmurias: so you don't have to do 'use strict' or w/e in everything? | 21:29 | |
| trondham | hm.. how to run an external command and gather the output, like "open my $foo, '-|', '/bin/ls'; while (<$foo>) ..." in perl5? | 21:32 | |
| colomon | trondham: qx{/bin/ls} | 21:41 | |
| at least, I've got an old p6 script lying around that does that. :) | |||
| that returns the entire result as a string. | |||
| trondham | colomon: ah, thanks :) | 21:42 | |
| pmurias | ash_: use strict is on on default | 21:45 | |
| ash_: you can minimalise to boilerplate to one line "with use ash_::favourite_modules;" | 21:47 | ||
| ash_ | pmurias: and just have my own folder ash_/favorite_modules.pm in ~/.perl6lib i guess | 21:52 | |
| pmurias | ash_: that might depend on the implementation, but something similiar should work | 22:03 | |
| ash_ | rakudo currently checks your ~/.perl6/lib fold in addition to its normal search path | 22:04 | |
| s/fold/folder | |||
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| mberends | pmurias: hi, V8 build error log in paste.lisp.org/display/92785 | 22:49 | |
| dryden | i was wondering if there exists a major fork in the Perl6 effort attempting to simply create the next version of the current Perl with very few changes...like a Perl with Moose like classes built into the core language, blocks/procs (..that might be difficult), more sugar, slightly better performance,...nothing too major. | 22:51 | |
| rjbs | No. | ||
| That's called Perl 5. | |||
| Perl 5 is not going to get Moose-like classes as part of the VM, pretty much period. It has Moose. Components are better than core features. | 22:52 | ||
| dryden | i see. well thank you. | ||
| rjbs | I'm not sure what you mean by blocks/procs as contrasted with coderefs, specifically. It has Coro and other coroutine systems. | ||
| "more sugar" - there is constant discussion of more sugar for some things, which sometimes goes in and sometimes doesn't. | 22:53 | ||
| and "better performance" is *always* on the agenda. | |||
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| dryden | by blocks and procs, i was referring to ruby's support for passing code blocks which is fairly awesome. but I see your point. | 22:56 | |
| ash_ | dryden: you can make anonymous blocks in perl 5 already, which are perfectly acceptable parameters for functions | 22:58 | |
| dryden | Oh well thank you ash_, it was stupid of me to put that on my little list. I feel rather silly now. | 22:59 | |
| ash_ | have you tried rakudo? | 23:00 | |
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| Alias | drbean, the call_a_function( $param1, sub { whatever } ) has worked for about 10 years | 23:00 | |
| dryden | ah i'm sad to say...i have not yet tried rakudo | 23:01 | |
| Alias | (in Perl 5 that is) | ||
| dryden, what OS are you on? | |||
| dryden | i'm currently using my xp partition. | 23:02 | |
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| Alias | drbean, if you install the Padre Standalone distro of Strawberry, and the Perl 6 plugin, it will automatically drop in Rakudo pre-built for you | 23:02 | |
| ash_ | if you like perl, its definitely worth trying out, read over the specs a bit to see what all is in it. a lot of it already works in rakudo | ||
| sjohnson | a lot of huge improvements for sure | ||
| ash_ | perlcabal.org/syn/ have the specs, i'd recommend at least glancing at a few, even if you don't plan on install rakudo right now | 23:03 | |
| dryden | thank you, i'll do that, i've been meaning to try rakudo. | ||
| ash_ | rakudo: say "this also calls rakudo, if our in irc"; | 23:04 | |
| p6eval | rakudo db84bc: this also calls rakudo, if our in irc | ||
| dryden | wow that's awesome. | 23:05 | |
| rjbs | Rakudo is oodles of fun, even just to play in the repl. | ||
| when I finally start writing classes, I expect oodleplexes | |||
| dryden | haha | ||
| ash_ | multi-methods are probably my favorite part of perl 6 | 23:06 | |
| that and custom operators | |||
| rakudo: sub postfix:<!>(Int $x) { [*] 1..$x }; say 5!; | |||
| p6eval | rakudo db84bc: 120 | ||
| rjbs | I like how well it all seems to hang together. | ||
| dryden | that is so sweet | 23:07 | |
| i don't like how people like guido van rossum poke fun at the perl6 project for it's development time. | |||
| ash_ | oh, and take a gander at the perl6advent.wordpress.com/ | ||
| dryden | good languages time to develop. | ||
| thank you | 23:08 | ||
| ash_ | rakudo: for^20{my ($a,$b)=<AT CG>.pick.comb.pick(*); my ($c,$d)=sort map {6+4*sin($_/2)},$_,$_+4; printf "%{$c}s%{$d-$c}s\n",$a,$b} | ||
| p6eval | rakudo db84bc: G C CG G C C G G C G C A T TA AT A T C G A T C G C G CG T A A T G C T A T A | ||
| ash_ | awww, i forgot p6eval removes new lines | ||
| i like that one, its from day 16 | 23:09 | ||
| of the advent calendar | |||
| dryden | sweet | ||
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| dryden | hmm I'm trying to think of a fun question to ask this community of developers. I think i finally thought of a few. When did you first discover Perl? were you excited? what did you make/write? | 23:20 | |
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| elmex | dryden: 1999, no, an irc bot | 23:24 | |
| diakopter | dryden: 2003, kinda, spamassassin plugins/mods | 23:25 | |
| dryden | awesome | ||
| diakopter | dryden: you? | 23:26 | |
| dryden | hmm...2005, yes very excited, and i wrote a project manager for the robotics team. | 23:27 | |
| i was very inexperienced, still am. | 23:29 | ||
| wow you guys must be very experienced programmers, no wonder i'm so nervous. | 23:31 | ||
| diakopter | ? | 23:32 | |
| sjohnson | dryden: i use perl mostly to make a *nix shell 100 times less of a headache | ||
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| dryden | that awesome! i tried writing a commandline physics calculator in perl recently..it was lame. | 23:34 | |
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| rjbs | I think my first Perl (4) program was used to assemble newsfroup posts into easily uudecodeable files. | 23:38 | |
| dryden | how long ago was this? | 23:39 | |
| sjohnson | also write a much better front-end to git than its out-of-the-box commands | 23:40 | |
| which also give me great headaches | 23:41 | ||
| dryden | ah yes, all great programming stems from the effort to make life easier/headache free. | 23:42 | |
| rjbs | I dunno, '96? | 23:43 | |
| dryden | wow, that's a long time ago. | ||
| rjbs | :'( | ||
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| sjohnson | i've been programming for only 2 years | 23:44 | |
| in Perl i mean | |||
| i'd say flipping through the Camel book was probably the smartest thing i could have done, as far as trying to learn the language | |||
| dryden | aww i didn't mean it like that rjbs: you're an experienced perl wizard. | ||
| sjohnson | hugme: hug rjbs | ||
| hugme hugs rjbs | |||
| dryden | hugs rjbs | ||
| ah, i love the camel book, i keep borrowing it from the library, i think it's about time i purchase one. | 23:45 | ||
| arnsholt | dryden: For my part, 2003 (I think), a bit I think (can't rellay remember), and little bits and pieces mostly (due to my general problems of finishing what I start =) | 23:46 | |
| Add spelling to test | |||
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| arnsholt | Taste even >.< | 23:47 | |
| sjohnson | dryden: make sure you get the latest edition, though that isn't a challenge to do | ||
| dryden | yeah i've lost count of the projects i'm started and haven't finished | ||
| thank you sjohnson, i will. | |||
| arnsholt | The Camel book is one of my favourite programming books. It's just so well written | 23:48 | |
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| sjohnson | arnsholt: it is very funny too | 23:48 | |
| arnsholt | The K&R C book is another good one | ||
| dryden | yeah it is rather funny | ||
| arnsholt | sjohnson: Exactly. It's technical without being dry | ||
| sjohnson | my brother doesnt "get" the humour in it. i enjoy reading it and have had a few good laughs from it before | ||
| soupdragon | I love the reasoned schemer but I haven't read very many programming books | ||
| eiro | someone to tell me what is the ':' char in a regex ? | ||
| sjohnson | it's like having your best friend who knows Perl well come over and explain it to you over a few beers | ||
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| eiro | i just found that in S05: | 23:49 | |
| $string ~~ m/^ \d+ $/; | |||
| $string ~~ m/^ \d+: $/; | |||
| sjohnson | probably matches "3: this is the third item" | ||
| arnsholt | No | ||
| sjohnson | ... oops | ||
| arnsholt | In Perl 6 regexes : means something | ||
| eiro | (difference between regex and token) | ||
| arnsholt | 'sec | ||
| Anything non-alphanumeric has to be backslashed now | 23:50 | ||
| eiro | i'm trying to find the doc... would be in S05 too := | ||
| dryden | "You can't use colon for a regex delimiter any more. That's because regex modifiers may now be placed in front of a regex construct" -S05 | ||
| arnsholt | eiro: Under backtracking control, fourth bullet point | 23:51 | |
| It forces no backtracking to the preceding atom | |||
| eiro | thanks to you all :) | 23:52 | |
| sjohnson | dryden: run perldoc perlbook for more info | ||
| arnsholt | So /\d+:/ will eat up all consecutive whitespace and never backtrack into them | ||
| eiro | arnsholt, i'm reading the doc and test it now. | ||
| dryden | oh sweet, thanks sjohnson! | 23:53 | |
| sjohnson | dryden: for a great example of my favourite use of perl, it is allowing this: pastebin.com/f76fff53a | 23:57 | |
| i have dozens upon dozens of userland perl hacks like this, that drastically reduce my headaches at work :) | |||
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| rjbs | hooray for hugs. | 23:58 | |
| arnsholt | sjohnson: Funky. You've aliased ls to some Perl script, I assume? | ||
| eiro | arf ... is there a "backtrack for dummies" somewhere ? | ||
| rjbs | I wish we had a bot that could give me a nap. | ||
| or debug my Inform code. | |||
| sjohnson | indeed i have | ||
| arnsholt | eiro: The Camel book describes it pretty well | 23:59 | |
| sjohnson | hugme: nap rjbs | ||
| dryden | sorry, i was away, thanks again sjohnson | ||
| arnsholt | In the regex chapter, there's a section on it (entitled "The little engine that could(n't)" if memory serves) | ||
| sjohnson | oh ya and ls 0k # works as ls -l too :) | ||