»ö« Welcome to Perl 6! | perl6.org/ | evalbot usage: 'perl6: say 3;' or rakudo:, niecza:, std:, or /msg camelia perl6: ... | irclog: irc.perl6.org | UTF-8 is our friend!
Set by sorear on 25 June 2013.
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TimToady well, that explains the throbbing headache, 100.5℉ == 38.1℃ 00:10
geekosaur :( 00:15
colomon :(
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timotimo oh damn. not as mild as we had hoped 00:24
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timotimo google-authenticator + FreeOTP ♥ 01:11
next project: libqrencode binding :3 01:12
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raydiak gist.github.com/raydiak/6fb0016cf397bf1420f5 yay progress 03:05
pyrimidine just curious, but is there a specific way to test a IO::Handle mode(rw, a, p) after it has been instantiated?
I've tried checking $fh.r and $fh.w, they always return True 03:06
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moritz \o 06:34
raydiak o/ 06:35
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sergot mornign o/ 07:44
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rindolf sergot: morning. 08:30
sergot rindolf: o/ 08:31
rindolf sergot: sup?
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sergot rindolf: sleepy but fine 08:48
rindolf sergot: ah.
sergot rindolf: how are you? 08:49
rindolf sergot: I'm fine - working on Website Meta Language. 08:50
sergot sounds interesting :) 08:51
dalek kudo/nom: 7ff58f0 | (Elizabeth Mattijsen)++ | src/core/ (4 files):
Streamline Bag.pick/roll/grab/pickpairs/grabpairs

Using MMD: should be significantly faster on no param calls, and on Whatever/Inf calls. Also fix #120407		 09:00
synopsebot Link: rt.perl.org/rt3//Public/Bug/Displa...?id=120407
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dalek ast: 01feaf8 | (Elizabeth Mattijsen)++ | S02-types/bag (2 files):
Some test adaptations because of Baggy streamline
 09:17
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lizmat seems I broke jvm :-( 09:25
$ perl6-j -e '<a b b>.BagHash.roll(2).say'
Exception in thread "main" org.perl6.nqp.runtime.UnwindException
abraxxa when NativeCall handles Str, does it also handle CArray[Str]? 09:29
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timotimo github.com/jnthn/zavolaj/blob/mast...rays.t#L25 ← abraxxa 09:49
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lizmat gives up on trying to figure out what broke Bag.roll/pick/grab and goes away for the day 09:57
if anybody interested in debugging: it's probably something in ROLLPICKGRABN
- it's not the native int
- it's not having rand/seen defined outside of the gather/while 09:58
away&
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abraxxa timotimo: thanks 09:59
it seems i have to pass a CArray[int8] because it might a Str but also something else like an Int
how do i get the length of a CArray[int8]? 10:00
timotimo usually .elems
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abraxxa does that look right? paste.scsys.co.uk/433328 10:07
timotimo doesn't look wrong to me 10:10
m: my $vbuf = "hi there".encode("UTF-16").elems
still timing out?
>_> 10:11
camelia rakudo-moar dcd32e: OUTPUT«(timeout)»
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abraxxa timotimo: it seems the @valuep only gets it's first element assigned 10:56
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timotimo what does $valuebuf.elems give you? 11:03
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azawawi hi 11:06
m: homedir('.')
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azawawi std: homedir('.') 11:06
moritz
.oO( my homedir is my castledir )
camelia rakudo-moar dcd32e: OUTPUT«(timeout)»
std 14ad63b: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Undeclared routine:␤ 'homedir' used at line 1␤Check failed␤FAILED 00:01 140m␤»
azawawi im getting homedir... $*HOME is not set in my perl6 repl 11:07
Dynamic variable $*HOME not found
latest rakudo 11:08
moritz lizmat: ^^
azawawi :) 11:09
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azawawi + Implemented tmpdir($dir) and homedir($dir) # in docs/ChangeLog :) 11:09
moritz: doc.perl6.org needs a lot of changes in the variables section 11:10
moritz: a lot of deprecated variables like $*OS
moritz: my fault... i was reading an old copy :)
rurban Made myself finally a working 64-bit big-endian machine, a qemu mips64 11:12
azawawi moritz: a better REPL github.com/azawawi/farabi6/blob/ma...st_repl.pl :)
FROGGS rurban++ # I've seen that on #parrot already, good work! 11:13
azawawi moritz: im thinking of generalizing it to send/recv json requests
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azawawi latest rakudo is also faster a bit in json parsing 11:14
that before that is
than before that is # correction... :)
rurban but max memory is 2GB, I only got 256M RAM working yet, so no chance for a rakudo. Need to wait for a PPC64 qemu 11:15
Sparc64 qemu will probably dead 11:16
abraxxa timotimo: 1 11:17
timotimo well, uh ... there you have it?
azawawi timotimo: hi there
timotimo azawawi: last time i tried, i still got that very same error from farabi6 ;(
FROGGS rurban: there is a chance that I get my PPC64 machines working at the end of the week
abraxxa timotimo: perl6 -e 'use NativeCall; my @valuep := CArray[int8].new; @valuep[0] = 83; @valuep[1] = 27; @valuep[2] = 34; say @valuep.elems;' 11:19
rurban Good. I found one GC assertion, but I suppose it's the memory pressure
timotimo oh
abraxxa is that a bug or can't i add elements to a CArray that way?
timotimo maybe try using $ and regular assignment instead of the @ sigil 11:20
abraxxa Variable '$valuep' is not declared. Did you mean '@valuep'?
FROGGS abraxxa: what gives you: perl6 -e 'use NativeCall; my @valuep := CArray[int8].new; @valuep[0] = 83; @valuep[1] = 27; @valuep[2] = 34; say @valuep[0].elems;'
timotimo abraxxa: use the $ everywhere 11:21
abraxxa FROGGS: 1
timotimo: still 1
FROGGS hmmm
abraxxa perl6 -e 'use NativeCall; my $valuep := CArray[int8].new; $valuep[0] = 83; $valuep[1] = 27; $valuep[2] = 34; say $valuep.elems;'
FROGGS does .elems actually work here? 11:22
timotimo let me have a look
it's not implemented for CArray >_<
FROGGS :o)
timotimo but CArray derives from something
abraxxa yes, but i couldn't find out if CArray subclasses from something core
timotimo it derives from Any 11:23
FROGGS star-m: use NativeCall; say CArray.^mro
timotimo Any has an "elems" method that would return 1 in this case
camelia star-m 2014.08: OUTPUT«(timeout)»
timotimo i've been bitten by CArray not implementing methods in the past >_>
abraxxa i need something like github.com/jnthn/zavolaj/blob/mast...rays.t#L87
so how do i get the number of elements then? 11:24
timotimo um, wait a minute 11:26
why are you asking the CArray for its number of elements in the first place?
just to check whether or not the assignment has worked?
abraxxa yes, to not rely on a different object and it's interface 11:27
why does CArray not subclass from e.g. List? 11:28
timotimo i don't think it can; different REPRS 11:29
REPRs
it does implement the Positional role
abraxxa i see 11:30
timotimo as a workaround you can nqp::elems the CArray, i believe
gotta run now 11:32
abraxxa ok, thanks
i'm using the elems method on the Buf object i'm taking the bytes from
although someone said that Buf.elems doesn't return the number of bytes but elements which could be multibyte as well 11:33
I need a way to loop a Buf per byte
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abraxxa I can access each byte using $buf.[$_] but i need an index counter that goes from 0 to number of bytes 11:34
brrt \o 11:35
azawawi timotimo: do you have a $HOME/lib folder? 11:42
timotimo: or a $HOME/.perl6 ?
abraxxa when I define a NativeCall method parameter as 'Str $placeholder is encoded('utf16'),' is the bytestring null terminated?
moritz uhm 11:43
null-terminated UTF-16 strings don't make much sense, since they have 0bytes quite naturally
abraxxa docs.oracle.com/cd/E11882_01/appdev...LNOCI17140
placeholder
That is, if the statement is prepared in UTF-16, so is the placeholder. As a string type parameter, the placeholder should be cast as (text *) and terminated with NULL. 11:44
timotimo azawawi, my prefix is perl6/install 11:45
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abraxxa moritz: ^^ 11:50
moritz abraxxa: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Null-terminat..._encodings 11:52
abraxxa moritz: does that help? docs.oracle.com/cd/E11882_01/appdev...LNOCI16359 11:53
strlen(ename)+1
timotimo maybe it is terminated with two null bytes?
azawawi timotimo: could you please share the rakudo build command that you are using so i can try to duplicate the issue on my machine? 11:56
timotimo i build all three components individually 11:57
in perl6/ i have the mvm, nqp and rakudo source folders
as well as ecosystem/ with panda in it
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timotimo I cannot laptop now and will be afk for one and a half hours soon 11:59
azawawi timotimo: could you please file an issue so i can keep track of the problem?
timotimo ok
azawawi timotimo++
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[Coke] stares at #perl6 backlog over coffee. 12:08
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[Coke] wonders what "new-fap" means. 12:12
oh.
moritz hopes its gone now 12:15
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abraxxa how can i get the number of bytes in a Buf or loop over it? 12:42
azawawi abraxxa: $buf.elems ? 12:44
abraxxa: doc.perl6.org/type/Buf#method_elems 12:45
abraxxa that gives the same number as Str.chars where it came from
i need a buf8 12:46
moritz has no idea if that's implemented 12:47
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moritz: wouldnt it be more user friendly to run p6doc-index when the user asks for p6doc -f split for the first time? 12:53
abraxxa moritz: what is required to make it more usable? extending NativeCall or Buf? 12:54
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moritz abraxxa: Buf, I think 12:58
azawawi: if the user has write permissions to the appropriate directories, yes
abraxxa what is $nf? doc.perl6.org/type/Str#method_encode 12:59
moritz normal form
not yet implemented
abraxxa can i force a utf-16 encoding returning a buf8?
moritz $ ./perl6-m -e 'say "abc".encode("UTF-16").decode("Latin-1").encode' 13:01
Can not decode a utf-16 buffer as if it were Latin-1 in method decode at src/gen/m-CORE.setting:5791
tough beans
that would have been useful
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azawawi is there an internal count of gather-ed items in a gather { ... } ? 13:11
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[Coke] "hey, why is my laptop making that... oh, the jvm build." 13:15
moritz azawawi: I don't think so 13:16
brrt [Coke]: i have that when i run spectests :-) 13:19
[Coke] brrt: it's fine on everything up to the jvm. (moar, moar-jit, parrot...) 13:20
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abraxxa moritz: can i open an issue or RFC somewhere for that feature? 13:44
moritz abraxxa: for what? Buf16 -> Buf8 conversion? 13:46
abraxxa moritz: yes, byte interface to Buf objects generally
moritz abraxxa: yes; mailto:rakudobug@perl.org
brrt iirc that's a bit of an 'open issue' :-)
abraxxa moritz: will do
where does that mail end up?
moritz abraxxa: rt.perl.org in the perl6 queue 13:47
abraxxa then i prefer the web interface
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abraxxa moritz: rt.perl.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=123015 13:54
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dalek rl6-roast-data: 135314e | coke++ | bin/rakudo. (4 files):
Use more cores
 14:07
rl6-roast-data: a42b9c3 | coke++ | bin/doit:
fix typo
rl6-roast-data: e6db84b | coke++ | / (5 files):
today (automated commit)
[Coke] ^^ that might be the first ad hoc run with all "4" backends. 14:08
note that there are 625 parrot failures, and 627 jvm failures. 14:09
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dalek rl6-roast-data: 74b00f7 | coke++ | / (5 files):
today (automated commit)
 14:10
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[Coke] many of those parrot failures are probably from the lack of icu; We should probably either die if we have no icu, or not run all these failing spectests. 14:16
moritz I'd be +1 to making ICU a hard requirement for rakudo-on-parrot; jnthn, any objections? 14:18
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[Coke] redoing today's parrot run with icu… 14:27
jnthn moritz: Don't immediately see why not; folks who don't want to find an ICU have two other backends to choose from... :)
yoleaux 19 Oct 2014 20:30Z <lizmat> jnthn: I think there is some codegen issue with private methods, contact me for an example
19 Oct 2014 20:31Z <lizmat> jnthn: I would not be surprised if this would be the source of a lot of flappines, specifically in async modules
[Coke] +1 here. 14:29
timotimo lizmat: could you pin down the performance issues you encountered with multiple dispatch? was it all due to having a given number in one/more of the candidates? 14:32
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jnthn .tell lizmat It's better to do async communication with me these days than try and find a time we're both on IRC, I suspect. :) Just drop the code example that shows it or other stuff I need to reproduce it in a gist and .tell me it ;) 14:33
yoleaux jnthn: I'll pass your message to lizmat.
jnthn timotimo: Well, if you have candidates that have non-nominal stuff in them, then you end up having to run the dispatcher and maybe trial bind signatures. 14:34
timotimo: Whereas purely nominal cases hit the cache. 14:35
timotimo oh, oops :)
moritz jnthn: well, one possible objection would have been: you have trouble installing libicu, and can't fix parrot backend code anymore if we do that :-)
jnthn moritz: Given I didn't fix Parrot backend code in a LONG time... :) 14:36
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jnthn FROGGS++ is mostly to thank for keeping Parrot up to date with stuff. 14:36
moritz so let's here if FROGGS++ objects 14:37
jnthn timotimo: So while multi fac(0) { 1 } is all very cute, it's (for the time being, and probably for a good while) going to be a decent amount cheaper to do such checks inside an only.
moritz: Yes, he's a better person to ask than me. :)
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FROGGS err, about what? 14:38
moritz FROGGS: any objections to making libicu mandatory for parrot? 14:39
FROGGS ohh, so detect icu in rakudo's Configure and deny to build it if absent?
timotimo jnthn: got it
moritz FROGGS: correct
FROGGS +1
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arnsholt o/ 14:50
arnsholt wrote Perl 6 (NQP, actually) code for the first time in forever last night 14:51
That felt nice
FROGGS :o)
arnsholt Must be almost a year since last I did that
dalek ake: 2f600b0 | (Arne Skjærholt)++ | / (7 files):
Move to Moar from Parrot; unbitrot; much improved indent handling.

First is self-explanatory, second simply due to the code being untended for a long time and easily fixed by cargo-culting a bit of code from Rakudo.
Much improved indent handling has been achieved by following the Pynie approach much more closely. As a consequence, we now handle ifs with elses properly (attaching a multiply dedented else to the correct parent rather than the first available). Also adds a simple sanity test for if handling.
arnsholt The fact that it was for my Python compiler may or may not be a good thing ^_^ 14:52
FROGGS hehe, true
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arnsholt But I was happy that I figured out how to handle the indents correctly 14:53
Turned out to be reasonably straightforward, in the end
nine_ arnsholt: you have a Python compiler in Perl 6?
arnsholt I have a Python compiler that knows how to call NQP ops and ifs with elses (but no elif) 14:54
Embryonic, at best
But now that I've figured out the indent stuff, it should be possible to implement a bit more interesting stuff 14:55
nine_ arnsholt: the parser may be interesting to sugar Inline::Python
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[Coke] whoops, misread: parrot had 2807 failures. 15:09
dalek rl6-roast-data: f35ad4c | coke++ | / (5 files):
today (automated commit)
[Coke] I force pushed the "real" parrot run for today. 15:10
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Ven o/, #perl6 15:13
has anybody here used roboVM :D? (basically, jvm on ios)
timotimo no 15:14
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masak greetings, #perl6lings 15:17
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Ven oyez, masak 15:18
I'm actually wondering if I could do my next ios app in perl6.
err, not "next". an ios app.
timotimo no wai
interpreted languages are forbidden on the ios market 15:19
Ven I don't really care about the ios market though
timotimo so ... how are you going to run that app on any ios device? 15:20
Ven specific provisions 15:21
if you have company-specific apps, you probably don't want them on the market
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timotimo apple allows that? 15:22
Ven I don't have any other explanation 15:23
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timotimo mhm mhm 15:23
Ven timotimo: and it seems wrong. 15:24
I see a few RubyMotion apps on the ios market...
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[Coke] down to 9 failures on parrot. 2 of them are long standing OS X failures, I think. 15:25
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Ven timotimo: Right. It's easy: rubymotion and robovm are ahead-of-time compilers 15:27
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brrt afk 15:30
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[Coke] is S02-types/deprecations.t failing on parrot on a non-OS X box? 15:31
timotimo hmm 15:32
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[Coke] p: use Test; my $latin-chars = [~] chr(0)..chr(0xFF); is $latin-chars.comb(/<blank>/)>>.ord.join(","), '9,32,160', 'blank chars'; 15:36
camelia rakudo-parrot 7ff58f: OUTPUT«(timeout)»
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[Coke] ^^ that test depends on a certain version of unicode, maybe? locally I am getting 9,32, not 9,32,160 15:38
(er, 9,32)
timotimo .tell azawawi i can run farabi6 when i clone it manually and run bin/farabi6 15:40
yoleaux timotimo: I'll pass your message to azawawi.
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timotimo moritz: can we get a sort of API that gives the anchor for a given line in the irclog? 15:40
something simple like "get me the anchor for the last line from $nickname" would probably be enough to make yoleaux give good links to the clogs 15:41
when .tell-ing someone something
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bartolin [Coke]: I get '9,32' as well locally (Debian 7, unicode-version is 6.0) 15:41
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bartolin [Coke]: btw, if I read the irclog for #parrot correctly the two OX X failures in S19-command-line/dash-e.t should be gone with the next Parrot version 15:44
rurban Really? 15:45
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bartolin rurban: didn't you add platform encodings for darwin? 15:51
timotimo perlpilot haz a pull request :3 15:53
rurban yes, ok
I'll check latest rakudo later. just testing weird platforms 15:54
now ppc64
bartolin rurban++
timotimo PerlJam: that's your github user, right? 15:55
.tell azawawi i'm not really doing anything with farabi6, but it maxes out a single cpu on my machine :\ 15:59
yoleaux timotimo: I'll pass your message to azawawi.
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PerlJam timotimo: aye, perlpilot is me. 16:01
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raydiak \o mornin #perl6 16:38
timotimo hey ray
raydiak how's it going timo? 16:39
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timotimo it's all right 16:41
kind of feeling unmotivated
but i should go ahead and do the weekly
(for two weeks ... again)
kjs_ timotimo: looking forward to reading your weekly!
timotimo thank you :) 16:42
raydiak yeah the weekly is awesome, keeping up with the backlog is *hard* 16:46
sorry you're in a lull
somewhat paradoxically, one of the main things that helps me when I'm feeling low on energy is to exercise a bit
timotimo ♥
yes, i've heard about that
i have candy now, and then a pizza :3 16:47
also i'm sitting in front of two big monitors with a beatufil photograph of a cat on them
raydiak heh a lot to be happy about, then
timotimo :) 16:49
www.socwall.com/desktop-wallpaper/31219/cat/
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raydiak wow that is some awesome photography work 16:50
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timotimo and it's available for free on the internets! 16:51
raydiak mine is a pic I took of a tree in a friend's yard, looking up from under the branches...I had a few drinks one night and did everything I needed to make it my boot splash, login splash, login theme background, wallpaper, shutdown splash... 16:53
timotimo :D
so ... what could non-expert perl6ers do to bring the GLR forwards? 16:54
write a bunch of test cases?
grondilu talking about cats, there was an awesome documentary about them lately on BBC: www.youtube.com/watch?v=bRgasPQnjNg
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dalek ast: c03b6f9 | usev6++ | S02-types/lazy-lists.t:
Fudge failing test for RT #121994 for JVM
 17:03
synopsebot Link: rt.perl.org/rt3//Public/Bug/Displa...?id=121994
raydiak the algebra system I started can isolate a single variable in simple equations now
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grondilu raydiak: where is this? I'm interested in something like that. 17:04
raydiak grondilu: it's just something I started hacking on a few days ago, I don't have it anywhere public yet 17:05
grondilu ok
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grondilu ever since I wrote my geometric algebra module, I've been thinking of implementing an algebraic role. 17:06
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grondilu but it's kind of tough, conceptually. 17:06
raydiak grondilu: if you're interested in contributing in the near future, I can clean it up and put it on github soonlyish
17:07 vendethiel joined
grondilu before coding, I think a lot of discussion is needed on the subject. Even the choice of vocabulary is not obvious, I think. 17:07
vendethiel I just renamed myself on github to vendethiel. FROGGS++ for the motivation
raydiak true enough...what I have currently is...a bit sloppy :) 17:08
grondilu but I really think this is something perl6 should have. Basically imho right now Numeric kind of sucks.
(I mean the Numeric role)
though maybe it will be on perl7 17:09
raydiak how so?
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[Coke] "perl7" is a loaded term. 17:10
PerlJam There will be no perl7. Ever. (That's my prediction)
grondilu never say never 17:11
awwaiid [digression detected]
grondilu I think there will.
PerlJam grondilu: I didn't ;)
[Coke] I just did a 'make install' on a rakudo install. then did "panda rebootstrap" which complained about:
===SORRY!===
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[Coke] Missing or wrong version of dependency 'src/gen/m-BOOTSTRAP.nqp' 17:11
17:11 grettis joined
[Coke] (any invocation of "panda" gives that error) 17:12
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PerlJam grondilu: you could make a perl7 just to invalidate my prediction, but barring that, I don't think there will ever be a perl7. 17:13
timotimo [Coke]: "panda rebootstrap"?
you want to do perl6 ./rebootstrap.pl 17:14
grondilu it's pretty clear that there is some sort of schism in the perl community. It's quite likely that at some point the part of the perl5 team which doesn't like perl 6 decide to create perl 7. And that'd be totally OK imho.
17:14 Mouq left
moritz as long as they solve both perl 5's and perl 6's problems, I'm all for it :-) 17:15
timotimo right after we "release" perl6, people will get confused again and believe perl6 is dying because "now they're working on perl7!"
grondilu I don't know. Should major version numbers indicate some sort of advancement or can't tehy just indicate chronological order or something? 17:16
PerlJam grondilu: I don't doubt that the p5p will try to find a "way around" Perl 6 at some point. I highly doubt it will be called "perl 7"
timotimo moritz: perl5's problem is that "no strict" is the default, perl6's problem is that it was too ambitious
the obvious solution is this:
perl7 is simply perl5 with "use strict" on by default
moritz timotimo: that isn't its only problem, IMHO
[Coke] timotimo: why do I need to go back to the panda install directory? 17:17
moritz timotimo: one highly relevant is the strings vs. byte confusion
grondilu perl7 would be a bit more than that
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moritz timotimo: another is the lack of an object system that's integrated with core 17:17
grondilu a bit of formal calculus for instance would be a nice addition.
timotimo [Coke]: hmm. in theory panda could include a guard around its use statements at the very top to figure out if the dependencies have moved below its feet and find and launch the rebootstrap script
moritz: oh, i thought you meant perl6
mhhh, this pizza was garlicious 17:18
moritz timotimo: no, I'm still dwelling on p5 :-)
timotimo haven't lost hope just yet? :)
moritz timotimo: I'm still here am I? :-) 17:19
timotimo hope in perl5, i meant
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timotimo communication is hard %) 17:19
moritz timotimo: I'm not sure, really. I mean, I use it for dajob, and it works fine. But I'm not seing evolutionary approaches working to some of p5's problems 17:20
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moritz timotimo: and those that state that p5 and p6 are really separate languages (and I've done that too in the past) still don't have any solutions to p5's long term future 17:20
timotimo "do you really expect me to evolve into a better language?" - "no, mister perl5. i expect you to die" 17:21
moritz well, I do believe it evolves, and for the better. I just don't know yet if it will evolve far enough 17:23
[Coke] also: panda rebootstrap should probably work without a network connection.
... it failed, now it thinks there's no need to -rebootstrap- then bootstrap fails. *sigh*
PerlJam moritz: anything is possible.
moritz: Maybe with P6 out there pushing the envelope on some things, p5p will wake up and steal some good ideas from it. 17:24
grondilu you just can't expect p5 to die until p6 proves it can rival it in terms of performance.
timotimo [Coke]: ah, yeah, rebootstrap saying "regular bootstrap is enough" is steered by finding a non-empty "state file", as in: stuff that's already installed
grondilu (I mean, to me it's still quite an open question if it will ever) 17:25
timotimo oh?
well, i'll likely be working on the performance aspect for the foreseeable future
PerlJam grondilu: Is that really true though? P5 never beat P4 in the performance dept. and mostly nobody cared.
timotimo though to be perfectly honest, i'm not really that effective at speeding up the "big picture"
[Coke] did a git pull on panda, and then a bootstrap worked. tried rebootstrap, which is now dying.
with: No such method 'ast' for invocant of type 'Any' 17:26
grondilu did not know P4 was faster than P5
[Coke] ... and now panda is dying with THAT error message all the time.
awwaiid I'm starting to edit my one off scripts in ~/bin to be "#!/usr/bin/env rakudo" :)
[Coke] grumpy coke is grumpy
PerlJam For a good while it was one of the things bugging me that P5 was slower than P4. Eventually (for me), the features the P5 provided made the "slowerness" unimportant. 17:27
And P6 has some killer features that P5 is lagging on. As soon as P6 is "fast enough", it won't matter if it's slower than P5 as long as it's not egregiously so. 17:28
(and IMHO, P6 has crossed the magic threshhold of being fast enough, so when most people agree with me, P6's relative speed to P5 won't matter :) 17:29
timotimo [Coke]: damn, that sucks. sorry to hear that! 17:31
wait ...
what's the third thing for 6.0.0 again? shaped arrays, NFG and ... 17:32
oh, the great list refactor, no?
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PerlJam timotimo: definitely 17:35
timotimo grondilu: as always: if you have specific things that are too slow in your opinion, we'd love to have a look at your code; even better if you have a perl5 or python version that we can compare against! 17:41
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[Coke] how does one nuke a panda install? 17:47
timotimo hmm
i think in the rebootstrap or bootstrap script there should be some rm-rf that'd show you how to do it 17:48
[Coke] I can bootstrap as many times as I want, but the installed panda is borked.
timotimo damn
what does it say?
[Coke] ... easier to nuke the whole thing.
timotimo dependency error?
[Coke] same Ast error.
timotimo have you tried "panda update"?
[Coke] same ast error
timotimo god fucking damnit
[Coke] ANY invocation of panda dies.
timotimo what line does it come from?
ooooh 17:49
of course
[Coke] in sub from-json at lib/JSON/Tiny.pm:51
timotimo panda opens and parses the module repository thingie first thing on startup
[Coke] because the projects file was borked at some point
timotimo you can set DESTDIR in your environment to have it look for a different path 17:50
[Coke] removing the installed projects.json file doesn't help
timotimo it doesn't?!
dalek ast: cc6dfe8 | usev6++ | S12-class/attributes.t:
Add tests for RT #7585 and RT #122109
synopsebot Link: rt.perl.org/rt3//Public/Bug/Displa...?id=122109
timotimo what about the statefile?
is that also borken?
[Coke] ARGLEBARGLE. "rm -rf ~/perl6;" go back to rakudo dir, "make install". I just built this 10m ago. the installed perl6 DOES NOT WORK. 17:51
ah. that's kind of understandable, because our "make" process doesn't know anything about our "config" process, which is kind of borken. 17:52
... which now brings me back to my complaint about installed moar/nqp vs. locally built moar/nqp. :P 17:53
rebuilding moar/nqp now, even though if I had been clever it wouldn't have been necessary.
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timotimo moritz: do you recall how much faster Str.trans for "\n" x 10000 became when you improved the O(n²) behavior? 17:57
dalek rlito: 997461e | (Flavio S. Glock)++ | / (2 files):
Perlito5 - js - implement special syntax "PATTERN" for split() - github.com/fglock/Perlito/issues/22
 17:58
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[Coke] ARGLEBARGLE 18:03
completely wiped my perl6 install. reinstalled nqp/moar/perl6 - ran perl6 panda bootstrap
er, sorry, "perl6 bootstrap.pl" - installed... installed panda is broken, same error as before. 18:04
No such method 'ast' for invocant of type 'Any'
ah, right. github.com/tadzik/panda/issues/96 18:06
timotimo who did FROGGS work together with to improve rakudo's (well, MoarVM's) packagability? 18:10
the maintainer of our rakudo packages for SuSE i believe
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dalek rlito: 491ce2e | (Flavio S. Glock)++ | / (2 files):
Perlito5 - js - split() runtime accepts regex as first argument - github.com/fglock/Perlito/issues/22
 18:31
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liztormato [Coke]: Sorry to hear your panda troubles. It's probably my fault. 18:36
FWIW I currently always do a perl6 rebootstrap to make sure I didn't break panda 18:37
It works on my machine ;-( 18:38
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liztormato Should be home in about an hour. I will then double check right away. 18:39
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[Coke] liztormato: it will work if I wipe the projects.json file and then try to bootstrap when I'm not forced to use an http proxy 18:43
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liztormato Ok. So you have a workaround 18:44
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timotimo i weeklyposted 19:29
19:31 brrt joined
vendethiel noice 19:31
masak p6weekly.wordpress.com/2014/10/20/2...0%AF6-ide/ 19:32
(for those of us who would otherwise have to search for the blog and post)
the first hit of my search was www.perl.com/pub/2002/09/p6pdigest/20020915.html
PerlJam masak++ 19:33
timotimo++
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timotimo masak: "it's surprisingly easy to stumble upon very outdated documents with a search engine" :P 19:37
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PerlJam Ah ... I see I volunteered for this month's compiler release. Suggestions for the release name are welcome. I wanted to use Salzburg, but there doesn't appear to be a Perl Mongers group there. 19:38
masak PerlJam: quick! start one! 19:40
also, which one is the closest?
PerlJam btw, does "Salzburg" literally mean "salt town"?
masak PerlJam: yes. 19:41
PerlJam Do they have lots of salt or something?
masak PerlJam: how else would you preserve your Hamburg?
PerlJam A major salt mine?
mauke salt castle
PerlJam mauke: I'd like to see this castle made of salt :)
mauke I mean, that's the literal translation 19:42
vendethiel masak: this read was a very good one :-)
masak yes :)
cognominal pmichaud++ and timotimo++ for their blog and (semi-)weekly summary. 19:44
masak today's wacky DSL idea: a subroutine that takes a block and returns a dynamically constructed object with an ACCEPT method, to be passed to a .grep 19:46
actually used in actual code I'm writing(TM)
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PerlJam maska++ your latest macrotic rambling has lots of ... "character" :) 19:48
masak_++ even 19:49
blah! I can't even type your nick
masak++ (typed. real. slow. like. that time :)
masak PerlJam: sometimes the lack of rigor in the macros spec is... disappointing.
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Flogator Hey all :) Im suprised seeing so many people in this IRC^^ will perl6 actuallly be published some day? sry for the question - but it's really been a while ;) 19:52
masak Flogator: first off, welcome!
Flogator: this is a common question here :)
PerlJam Flogator: that statement and question are oddly familiar even
(exact phrasing)
masak Flogator: we're happy to answer it for you as best we can.
Flogator: first approximation at an answer.
Flogator: "yes." 19:53
someone else have a go :)
PerlJam Flogator: to my mind, Perl 6 is "published" every month. In fact, I'm "publishing" it this month in a few days
masak Flogator: PerlJam's answer is the typical "we're releasing it, but no-one seems to notice" answer.
Flogator: I am now providing commentary on it for your elucidation. 19:54
Flogator :) I'm just wondering wheter it's worth beeing a "early adopter" if your not interested in developing it? So can I actually work with it already?
youre great guys!
masak Flogator: many of us here are early adopters like that.
Flogator: I've been an early adopter since around 2008. 19:55
Flogator: yes, you can definitely work with it already. I've written all kinds of stuff in Perl 6. some of it is in production now.
Flogator: but (as with all early stuff) expect some rough edges.
brrt and there's definitively active development
Flogator masak: I like that!
masak Flogator: I've also submitted around 1500 bug reports. 19:56
(though I'm an outlier, admittedly)
Flogator masak: I guess that's sure ;) (and a little scary^^ but in 6 years - ok)
masak yeah, that's much less than one per day. 19:57
mauke haha
masak it used to be around one per day, but then the bugs stopped coming as quickly.
PerlJam masak: Outliers are important and necessary! See www.ted.com/talks/shawn_achor_the_h...etter_work :-)
masak I blame nom and 6model -- things got so bloody stable after that. <grumble> :P
PerlJam: interesting. will watch. 19:58
vendethiel Flogator: I've started reading stuff on perl6 in february, started using it in prod around 2 months later 20:00
masak Flogator: if you're curious about the quickest way into the community, it's this: (a) pick a task that seems way too small -- "surely this should be easy!", (b) find and submit your first bug, (c) wake up half a year later, covered in TODOs, wondering what the heck happened. 20:02
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masak 1/2 :P 20:02
brrt we're definitely more production-ready than we were before
dalek kudo/nom: d04b5b4 | duff++ | docs/announce/2014.10.md:
a templatey first stab at the Oct release announcement
moritz PerlJam++
Flogator ok - thanks alot- guess I will look into it^^
vendethiel brrt: "we're nearer than before" is a pretty useless comparison :P 20:03
I certainly hope we havn't regressed!
brrt let's make it less useless then
PerlJam vendethiel: it does happen occasionally. 20:04
brrt i think we're on the upper half of the sigmoidal readiness curve
masak suggesting that from now on, convergence will be an ever-slowing process!
brrt not suggesting that your personal readiness cutoff is equal to the maximum though :-) 20:05
PerlJam nah, the target will move too, so the rate of convergence will sometimes speed up and sometimes slow down
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masak wow, this is some of the weirdest code I've ever written. 20:05
vendethiel
.oO( and that says a lot )
 20:06
masak: we're eagerly awaiting for the gist :P 20:07
masak vendethiel: gist.github.com/masak/67bbd56426b12d0e5943
(I'm not finished with the rest, so I can't post the whole code yet) 20:08
dalek ecs: de5fbbb | usev6++ | S32-setting-library/Exception.pod:
[S32::Exception] Add X::Syntax::Term::MissingInitializer
PerlJam masak: you clearly have an affinity for games ;)
masak I believe line 4 is necessary, to lexically capture the dynamical.
PerlJam: I do.
PerlJam: in this case, I'm building a searchable database for a en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hex_(board_game) corpus 20:09
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PerlJam That line 4 business reminds me a little of the hoops you have to jump through in JS to make sure you get the right "this" sometimes. 20:10
masak PerlJam: yes, I had similar associations. 20:11
PerlJam: I *think* that line is necessary, though it's possible it's not.
PerlJam I tend to hope it's not :)
masak ok, this requires some empirical SCIENCE. 20:12
m: sub foo { my $*DYN = 42; say $*DYN; return Any.new but role { method bar { sy $*DYN } } }; my $o = foo; $o.bar 20:13
camelia rakudo-moar 7ff58f: OUTPUT«(timeout)»
masak locally, "42\nDynamic variable $*DYN not found"
ok, so it's necessary.
I guess the moral is: "dynamical variables aren't lexically bound to their original scope". and it would be kind of strange if they were. 20:14
and probably counterproductive.
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vendethiel do we have a .compact to remove any-values? 20:16
masak a what to what?
vendethiel right :
PerlJam masak: aye, but I still find it distasteful that there's this random assignment whose only purpose is so that the closure works right
masak PerlJam: I 50% agree with you, and 50% "yeah, but it's not 'only'; you need a lexical binding for the closures to work; that's how they work" 20:17
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PerlJam masak: maybe we need a macro that enables us to say "close over this thing right here" ;) 20:17
(which makes an anonymous lexical binding for us0 20:18
s/0/)/
masak <shaky-handwriting>DO NOT MESS WITH LEXICAL BINDING AND CLOSURES</shaky-handwriting>
Ven can I get a count of matching junctions :D?
masak Ven: received wisdom is that "you want a Set or something that you can look into" 20:19
Ven not really
m: my $i = +(any(/a/, /b/) ~~ /ab/)
camelia rakudo-moar 7ff58f: OUTPUT«use of uninitialized value of type Nil in numeric context in block <unit> at /tmp/KqT9B_kAMY:1␤␤»
PerlJam vendethiel: um ... what? 20:20
masak I am now creating a sub that wraps a dynamical sub in a sub and stores it back in the dynamical.
PerlJam er, Ven
vendethiel PerlJam: vendethiel is fine :-)
masak vendethiel: you are Not Meant To Care about the way junctions look inside. if you care about the number of elements, then you care about the inner structure of a junction. 20:21
Ven I've just used "+@blah.grep(x|y)" :D
masak: I don't care about the number of elements
masak ok.
PerlJam I'm only getting more confused then
and so ... I'll take this opportunity to go back to hacking for $work :) 20:22
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masak omg, the code works o.O 20:26
Ven omg!
must be a bug
masak no; just massive cheating(tm) and time to write more tests(tm) 20:27
Ven ™™ <- here's some for you
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masak 😸 20:34
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[Coke] reads macrotic as necrotic. 20:42
dalek kudo/nom: df4b494 | moritz++ | docs/announce/2014.10.md:
[release] Announce that future Rakudos will need ICU in their parrot backend
 20:56
masak [Coke]: henceforth, my professional title will be "the Macromancer" 20:57
[Coke] moritz++ masak++ # but not for the same thing 20:59
masak things++ # for sometimes differing 21:00
21:02 molaf left
lizmat [Coke]: so, should I investigate panda breakage or not? 21:02
yoleaux 14:33Z <jnthn> lizmat: It's better to do async communication with me these days than try and find a time we're both on IRC, I suspect. :) Just drop the code example that shows it or other stuff I need to reproduce it in a gist and .tell me it ;)
lizmat timotimo++ for weekly update! 21:08
fwiw, I think TimToady's statement about the 3 things we need for 6.0.0, is a good guideline for Xmas to come
GLR, NFG and NSA :-) 21:09
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[Coke] lizmat: there is already a ticket for my issue. 21:11
it's from at least august, I think - wasn't you
lizmat ah, ok, *phew*
having broken so many things, I've become a bit sensitive to these things :-)
[Coke] I forgot that I was having the same problem I've had in the past, and kept getting moar frustrated until I found the old ticket. 21:12
nah, you're cool. no worries.
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Tekk_ lizmat: I'm so used to #perl being dead on here relative to irc.perl.org :P 21:12
lizmat :-)
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pmichaud good afternoon, #perl6 21:12
moritz good pm, pm 21:13
[Coke] good morning, pmichaud!
Tekk_ so, what's the best way to do globbing in 6? I got as far as IO::Path.contents but I can't figure out how to get :test to take a regex
or much of anything really 21:14
moritz Tekk_: you could always just .grep the results
m: say '.'.path.contests
m: say '.'.path.contents
camelia rakudo-moar 7ff58f: OUTPUT«No such method 'contests' for invocant of type 'IO::Path'␤ in block <unit> at /tmp/ffRTN2dlGd:1␤␤»
rakudo-moar 7ff58f: OUTPUT«"/home/p6eval/jvm-rakudo".IO "/home/p6eval/star-2014.08".IO "/home/p6eval/.viminfo".IO "/home/p6eval/rakudo-inst-2".IO "/home/p6eval/.pugs_history".IO "/home/p6eval/.selected_editor".IO "/home/p6eval/star".IO "/home/p6eval/rakudo1".IO "/home/p6eval/.bash_h…»
21:15 cognominal left
[Coke] m: glob(/^ 'rak'/).say 21:15
camelia rakudo-moar 7ff58f: OUTPUT«===SORRY!=== Error while compiling /tmp/2DjJgCcSHi␤Undeclared routine:␤ glob used at line 1␤␤»
moritz m: say '.'.path.contents.grep({ .Str ~~ /pugs/ })
camelia rakudo-moar 7ff58f: OUTPUT«"/home/p6eval/.pugs_history".IO␤»
lizmat Tekk_: $ 6 '.say for ".".IO.contents: :test(/foo/)'
"/Users/liz/Github/rakudo.moar/foo.t".IO
"/Users/liz/Github/rakudo.moar/fooz".IO
[Coke] (glob is referenced in S32/IO ...)
moritz m: say '.'.path.contents(test => /pugs/)
camelia rakudo-moar 7ff58f: OUTPUT«"/home/p6eval/.pugs_history".IO␤»
pmichaud m: say '.'.path.contents.grep(/pugs/) # curious
camelia rakudo-moar 7ff58f: OUTPUT«"/home/p6eval/.pugs_history".IO␤»
moritz Tekk_: just do it right, and it'll work :-) 21:16
lizmat [Coke]: that's really a fossil, atm
or at least part of the "Conjectural Stuff" 21:17
Tekk_ ah, I just had the syntax wrong then :)
pmichaud m: say '.'.path.contents.grep(/rak/) # curious #2 21:18
lizmat it's because of this functionality, that I don't think we need glob() at all, really
camelia rakudo-moar 7ff58f: OUTPUT«"/home/p6eval/jvm-rakudo".IO "/home/p6eval/rakudo-inst-2".IO "/home/p6eval/rakudo1".IO "/home/p6eval/rakudo-inst-1".IO "/home/p6eval/rakudo-inst".IO "/home/p6eval/rakudo".IO "/home/p6eval/rakudo2".IO␤»
pmichaud \o/
Tekk_ lizmat: yeah
I just had to figure out how you're supposed to do it :) 21:19
TimToady wonders when convenience suddenly became passe...
lizmat BTW, .IO.contents is deprecated as of 2014.10, please use .IO.dir instead :-)
Tekk_ TimToady: when the inconvenient alternative is sufficiently in style. Java being a fantastic example 21:20
lizmat TimToady: perhaps since I rewrote large parts of S16/S32:IO ?
glob() was still NYI, fwiw 21:22
if we have a good spec, we could implement it :-) 21:23
is "perldoc -f glob" is the spec, we could do that too
TimToady you don't want me speccing when I have a fever :)
lizmat *if
Tekk_ lizmat: do you mean IO.directory? 21:24
rakudo fails saying that .dir is deprecated :)
or maybe I have an ancient rakudo..
lizmat yes, that must be ancient
Tekk_ 2013.05. Yep, that qualifies as ancient...
Tekk_ goes to fix the slackbuild
lizmat you also might want to try moarVM instead
you will be surprised by its speed
Tekk_ not having 2 second start times on the interpreter sounds pretty nice 21:25
that was annoying me quite a bit
lizmat $ 6 1
real0m0.209s
cognominal_ lizmat, it seems that your recent changes have borked local-fetch in Panda::Fetcher as per the error messages when rebootstrap.pl-ing panda. 21:27
Tekk_ has rakudobrew doing its thing, instead of using slackbuilds :P
cognominal_ No such method 'cleanup' for invocant of type 'Str'
in sub local-fetch at /Users/cog/git/panda/lib/Panda/Fetcher.pm:46
lizmat looks 21:28
cognominal_ I am so out ouf tune with the perl6 recent development I may have missed somthing important.
TimToady btw, mkdir(Date.today) stopped working 21:29
lizmat cognominal_: how do you invoke that ?
[Coke] ^^ someone add a spectest.
cognominal_ cd ~/git/panda # go to the panda repository (with my setting) 21:30
perl6 rebootstrap.pl
lizmat TimToady: this is what you see? 21:31
$ 6 'mkdir(Date.today)'
No such method 'IO' for invocant of type 'Date'
cognominal_ my $cleanup = $from.IO.path.cleanup; # The line where it blows up. Being an IO.path stuff, I dare to infer this is due to your recent changes
lizmat aha... but maybe you need to pull panda then 21:32
my version reads: my $cleanup = $from.IO.cleanup
TimToady: perhaps we need to move method Cool.IO to Any 21:35
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lizmat tests that 21:36
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cognominal_ lizmat++, sorry I was on a fork. Silly me. 21:38
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lizmat hmmm... interesting failure mode again :-( 21:42
Stage parse : moar(54226,0x7fff7c1a8310) malloc: *** error for object 0x7f8dc4e95c70: pointer being freed was not allocated
masak 'night, #perl6
lizmat gnight, masak
timotimo good day TimToady 21:47
lizmat grrrr... it seems that just a "take" in jvm bombs ?
timotimo because it's outside a gather? 21:48
lizmat no, it's very much inside
timotimo: see src/core/Baggy.pm, sub ROLLPICKGRABN 21:50
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timotimo :( 21:51
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dalek kudo/nom: 3975e16 | (Elizabeth Mattijsen)++ | src/core/Temporal.pm:
Fix mkdir/rmdir(Date) breakage TimToady++
 21:53
lizmat timotimo: do you see anything wrong there ?
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lizmat .tell jnthn suggestions about take failing on jvm? gist.github.com/lizmat/ab00347d5cc44a23c65b 21:55
yoleaux lizmat: I'll pass your message to jnthn.
21:56 rindolf left
lizmat .tell jnthn code is from src/core/Baggy.pm 21:56
yoleaux lizmat: I'll pass your message to jnthn.
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lizmat .tell jnthn the gist with the sub/private method codegen issue: gist.github.com/lizmat/16382a07084c5bb33d19 22:03
yoleaux lizmat: I'll pass your message to jnthn.
lizmat ooh wow 22:05
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lizmat seems if I take away the extra { } of the gather, it works 22:05
lizmat is going to test that on moar as well 22:06
timotimo lizmat: wat :(
glad it works, but ...
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dalek kudo/nom: f0efc88 | (Elizabeth Mattijsen)++ | src/core/Baggy.pm:
Apparently fix "take" failure on JVM
 22:11
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lizmat alas, that didn't fix it after all... 22:52
giving up for today.... gnight #perl6!
colomon o/ 22:58
timotimo hi u 23:05
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japhb .botsnack 23:21
yoleaux :D
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