»ö« Welcome to Perl 6! | perl6.org/ | evalbot usage: 'p6: say 3;' or rakudo:, std:, or /msg camelia p6: ... | irclog: irc.perl6.org | UTF-8 is our friend!
Set by masak on 12 May 2015.
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colomon Any ides what would generate a “Cannot invoke null object” error? error is occurring in a simple script which has worked for months… 01:21
*ideas
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colomon Argh! can’t install panda on 2015.04 because it doesn’t have unit. :\ 01:34
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colomon nor 2015.05 01:44
timotimo i would have mildly preferred putting in the semicolon form instead 01:51
at least for the time being
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colomon semicolon form 01:55
?
wouldn’t a working patch be to use the { } form instead of unit? 01:57
PS apparently it’s not panda, it’s File::Find, Shell::Command, and JSON::Tiny
timotimo: any notion if the POD at the end of a module should be included in the { } 02:06
?
timotimo if it's not a #| or #= i don't think it matters 02:14
er, sorry, i meant the braces form of course
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colomon Guess if I had permission to change… huh, guess I do have commit on JSON::Tiny 02:22
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colomon Argh, is there something very wrong with rakudo causing these Cannot invoke null object messages? 02:31
colomon tries clean build
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timotimo hoelzro put the fix in, but we didn't bump nqp and rakudo yet 02:33
colomon well… if you can point me in the right direction, I’d be happy to do the legwork 02:34
(the fix is in moar, I take it?)
timotimo yeah
git describe --tags inside MoarVM's checkout will give you what to put into nqp's tools/build/MOAR_REVISION 02:35
the same dance inside nqp - after commiting the revision bump - gives you what to put into rakudo's tools/build/NQP_REVISION
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dalek p: 436f66b | colomon++ | tools/build/MOAR_REVISION:
Use hoelzro++'s latest MoarVM patch.
 02:41
timotimo it might be a good idea to give a slightly more elaborate explanation 02:42
like "get the fix for null object invocations'
damn, mismatched quotes
colomon will do in the rakudo checkin 02:43
hoelzro timotimo: now you tell me =)
timotimo i tell you what exactly? the thing about the bump?
i wonder what else got bumped into this
oh
literally just the one patch
colomon yeah 02:44
almost done
hoelzro timotimo: about a better idea for a commit message
I linked to RT, but I should've included the error message 02:45
timotimo oh
the rt link is a good place to start
colomon bother, I’m having trouble with git.
hoelzro colomon: what kind of trouble?
timotimo hmm, maybe a userscript that links from github repositories connected to perl6 to rt.perl.org for those would be interesting?
a browser userscript, that is
colomon hoelzro: made my commit to rakudo, but when I push it just says Everythng up-to-date 02:46
hoelzro timotimo: that would be handy
timotimo colomon: that's very strange :)
colomon oh, I see
timotimo hoelzro: i don't know how to userscript :)
hoelzro timotimo: that makes two of us
;)
dalek kudo/nom: 7fc0782 | colomon++ | tools/build/NQP_REVISION:
Use hoelzro++'s latest MoarVM patch.

Get the fix for null object invocations.		 02:47
colomon wasn’t on nom
timotimo what branch were you on, then?
it would have had to push something, right?
colomon no branch
hoelzro detached HEAD, then? 02:48
colomon guess
timotimo ah
right 02:49
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skids After a stint of adding --configure-opts to "rakudobrew triplet" I was able to verify that that fix fixed Sum. 02:55
timotimo god damn it, all i do these days just breaks moar 02:56
hoelzro timotimo: could've been worse
timotimo how?
colomon hoelzro++ timotimo++ # update fixed my issue, now I can get back to $work 02:57
hoelzro also, we have to risk stability a bit to gain speed
timotimo i stole multiple hours of productivity from people, i bet
hoelzro timotimo: well, it doesn't block installation entirely, for one
timotimo if it had, i could have found it out immediately
hoelzro it could've been an awful GC, concurrency, or serialization bug
that random segfaults rakudo 02:58
and been *really* hard to track down
it took me less than 5 minutes to write a bisect script to find that commit
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hoelzro and I played bloodborne while it worked =) 02:58
timotimo something sloppy i recently did ended up sending jnthn on a wild goose-chase :\
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colomon and my $work patch worked brilliantly. (p6 checks the test results.) 02:59
hoelzro timotimo: we've all made mistakes; it's better than no one contributing at all, right! 03:00
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skids timotimo: stop beating yourself up, you contribute more than me or many others. 03:00
timotimo hm, may be 03:01
things are getting really real right now
with perl6 i mean
aint such a long time until christmas
jdv79 what does really real smell like? 03:02
hoelzro yeah, I know what you mean
September isn't far away
and that's *beta* time
jdv79 6.0.0 or 6a or whatever it'll be called will bomb inevitably, right?
timotimo tiny annoyances are piling up around me at the moment, so i'm a tiny bit on edge it seems 03:03
jdv79 i wouldn't be too worried about it
hoelzro I look at all the tickets in RT and get worried
timotimo at least there's a lot of churn in RT
hoelzro yeah
timotimo new tickets being added, but also tickets getting closed
hoelzro I feel like there are a lot of open tickets that are probably no longer valid
timotimo much better than having a permanently low number of tickets that don't get changed at all
jdv79 if 6b or 6.1.0 has serious troubles then i'll be concerned 03:04
timotimo i'm heading towards bed now
see you :)
hoelzro later timotimo 03:05
hoelzro goes to play Takenoko with wife and brother-in-law
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skids phys.org/news/2015-06-year-old-algo...roven.html # summary: anything that solves edit distance in under N² would make NP-complete less hard than generally suspected. 03:38
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hoelzro timotimo: first cut of that userscript: gist.github.com/hoelzro/5c16c12baa9dc951511e 04:46
it *should* work
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FROGGS[mobile] my plan for today is to make this work: 06:01
my $cmd1 = run('cmd1', :out); run('cmd2', :in($cmd1.out)) 06:03
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FROGGS[mobile] in theory I only have to tweak run() in rakudo in the openpipe3 branch 06:05
skids That would be nice. 06:06
FROGGS[mobile] but now I wonder: is feed syntax usable here?
it also means I deprecate pipe() 06:07
skids I was under the impression that feed syntax is mosty intended to be a List thing.
FROGGS[mobile] ahh
and I should not forget to ask the libuv devs about how merging stdout/sdterr is supposed to work 06:11
if that is a low level thing at all 06:12
skids I believe in C it is done with freopen or something.
FROGGS[mobile] hmmm, I can grep for that in libuv's source 06:13
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raydiak S32-IO says pipe() no longer exists anyway and is replaced by IO::Pipe.pair 06:28
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skids Ah, if no streams are being used the way to deal with it is dup/dup2 06:32
(in C)
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FROGGS raydiak: yes, which also won't be true in future 06:35
what I imagine is that IO::Pipe will we a filehandle, returned by something that calls nqp::syncpipe() 06:36
and run() and shell() return a (IO::)Proc object, that has .in, .out and .err attributes of type IO::Pipe
skids Does run() start the cmd right away? Because then you have some time when cmd1 can output before cmd2 starts. 06:38
raydiak maybe it's buffered? 06:39
skids That would be overcomplicated.
versus starting cmd2 first and then later attaching cmd1 when you start it. 06:40
FROGGS now reads MoarVM/3rdparty/libuv/src/unix/process.c:267:static void uv__process_child_init(
skids: run() does not start when you capture any of <in out err> 06:41
but it does kick off when you dont capture anything
skids Ah, good.
FROGGS so my posted example might not work
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FROGGS so you either have to also print to the first command from P6, and close that handle, or read from cmd2 and close its handle 06:42
we'll see
raydiak also don't forget about the cases where people want to run pipelines of several commands 06:44
FROGGS raydiak: example?
(not a use case, but pseudo code) 06:45
raydiak um...well idk at midnight off the top of my head after a day like today, but like any shell script with more than one '|'
erm, not shell script but one-liner if you get my meaning 06:46
FROGGS raydiak: yes, that should work IMO
I will know today hopefully :o)
raydiak cool :) ++FROGGS
but off to bed for me...busy day and week, thankfully...just dropped in to say "Go team Camelia!" before sleep 06:47
FROGGS gnight raydiak :o) 06:49
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RabidGravy okay, so having fixed my bogus test data which led me off totally down the wrong path, theres definitely something funny going on with CArray[num64] that I can't see: 08:00
Adding -191.709945678711 at 57
Wrong kind of access to numeric CArray
in method ASSIGN-POS at lib/NativeCall.pm:333
can't replicate outside my code at the moment 08:03
FROGGS RabidGravy: does MVM_SPESH_DISABLE=1 help? 08:04
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RabidGravy yes, yes it does 08:05
what does that do then? 08:06
FROGGS[mobile] disable dynamic optimizations and also the JIT 08:08
that explains why cant easily reproduce in a one liner... 08:09
the code must be "hot" in order to get speshed
RabidGravy ah, so that isn't really a solution going forward then
FROGGS[mobile] you can try wrapping it a while loop 08:10
no, but we need to golf it in order to fix it
in a while loop* 08:12
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RabidGravy while loop? my $f = True; while $f { # do the copy ; $f = False } doesn't help 08:15
the problem with replicating is that the data is an array of Nums which have already been copied from a CArray[num64] 08:16
FROGGS[mobile] then this needs to be part of the golf 08:23
RabidGravy er 08:26
'ang on, I don't think that'll work 08:27
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RabidGravy just about as short as I can get it: gist.github.com/jonathanstowe/9802...f7a6f992dc 08:36
it only every does it in the third loop and always does at the 58th element 08:37
I guess there may be opportunities to simplify the data 08:41
also should be noted that it only does it with CArray[num64] - not int16, int32 or num32 08:44
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RabidGravy ah, no the data can be replaced with a "my @in = (^100).map({Num($_)});" 09:02
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RabidGravy FROGGS, I think that's as short as I can make it and still demonstrate that behaviour gist.github.com/jonathanstowe/9802...f7a6f992dc 09:04
I think I'm going to TODO the tests it is causing to fail, move on and RT that later unless someone has any further input 09:09
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nine RabidGravy: it seems like your bug got introduced sometime within the last month (since commit 31f3db1) 09:23
RabidGravy: could only reproduce it after updating rakudo
RabidGravy Hmm
cheers for looking
FROGGS RabidGravy++ # that golfed script is good 09:25
RabidGravy the fact that it only happens on the third generation helps ;-) 09:26
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nine bisecting... 09:28
RabidGravy I looked at the site of the exception and couldn't see anything obvious except to conclude that somewhere it was losing its inner-numiness 09:31
FROGGS nine++ 09:33
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RabidGravy while I'm thinking of it, I think I'll add some tests for the "rw CArray getting populated by the library function" case in the NativeCall tests 09:53
as there doesn't appear to be any 09:54
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nine d356462fed5706dd8fa6394dec26d1cced034cdb is the first bad commit, Author: Tobias Leich, "implement ignoremark, though needs tbd for interpolations" 09:58
Doesn't make much sense though :/
Oh but this commit bumps NQP version, so it may make sense after all 09:59
dalek c: 0de156d | paultcochrane++ | lib/Type/SetHash.pod:
Improve link name to Set/Bag Operators section
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FROGGS nine: I'd guess the problem is introduced in MoarVM 10:20
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nine FROGGS: indeed. I should be able to bisect MoarVM without having to recompile Rakudo, shouldn't I? 10:27
FROGGS nine: correct
RabidGravy yeah the site of the exception is actually in the moar code 10:31
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dalek c: 2ee4b15 | paultcochrane++ | lib/Language/ (2 files):
Fix link from classtut to Roles section in objects doc
 10:33
nine Except that nqp doesn't seem to like the stage0 changes 10:43
FROGGS nine: yes, there are changes where you have to rebuild nqp/rakudo, but these are rare 10:44
nine Unfortunately this is one of those changes. And when I rebuild Rakudo, it insists on checking out a specific MoarVM version making the bisect run useless. 10:55
colomon nine: that’s why I wrote the “triple” functionality into rakudobrew. Though you still have to do it by hand. 11:00
dalek c: f3be1d0 | paultcochrane++ | lib/Type/BagHash.pod:
Use a better link name to Set/Bag Operators section
 11:02
c: f25a270 | paultcochrane++ | type-graph.txt:
Add new exceptions to the type-graph
nine colomon: except if I remove the --gen-moar and --gen-nqp from config.status I guess 11:03
colomon nine: I meant, bisect by hand. the triple thing automatically builds the versions of rakudo, nqp, and moar you specify 11:04
I was working on just this sort of bug at the time.
FROGGS $ perl6 -Ilib -e 'use IO::Pipe; my $p1 = shell("dir", :out); my $p2 = shell("wc", :in($p1.out), :out); say $p2.out.lines' 11:06
110 219 3981
\o/
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itz_ hmmm I'm a little sceptical about static analysis but "scan-build -- Clang static analyzer" looks interesting 11:08
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RabidGravy FROGGS, nice :-) 11:12
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FROGGS is happy 11:15
vendethiel
.oO( don't forget to water your FROGGS )
 11:19
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dalek line-Perl5: 035eb53 | (Stefan Seifert)++ | / (2 files):
Support overloaded stringification of P5 objects

In Perl 5: package Foo; use overload '""' => sub { "foo!" }; In Perl 6: say $foo.Str(); # gives "foo!"		 11:37
vendethiel nine++
nine hoelzro++ for suggesting this in GH #12 11:38
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JimmyZ_ nine: line 21 in test looks like useless? 11:45
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nine JimmyZ_: indeed! 11:54
dalek line-Perl5: 9075f90 | (Stefan Seifert)++ | t/overload.t:
Remove left over debug code from test

Thanks to JimmyZ_++ for spotting this!
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ab5tract FROGGS[mobile]: is that IO::Pipe behavior lazy? 12:03
timotimo hoelzro: you could check synbot6's code; it has an extra heuristic in it to make the "RT" in front not required and still not give terribly many false positives 12:07
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timotimo hoelzro: and you're replacing text inside the html, which may end up inside an attribute or something ... :\ 12:11
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RabidGravy Hmm, when you do @array1 ~~ @array2, what does it actually do? I have two arrays that look pretty similar but can't tell where the differ 12:13
psch RabidGravy: "what exactly" is in the ACCEPTS declaration — looks like a Whatever-aware deep comparison, on a glance 12:15
m: say [*] ~~ [1]
camelia rakudo-moar 7fc078: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/nTbJ2E_LUZ␤Expected a term, but found either infix ~~ or redundant prefix ~␤ (to suppress this message, please use a space like ~ ~)␤at /tmp/nTbJ2E_LUZ:1␤------> 3say [*] ~~7⏏5 [1]␤»
timotimo ~~ of arrays uses === to compare individual elements
psch m: my @a = *; my @b = [1]; say @a ~~ @b
camelia rakudo-moar 7fc078: OUTPUT«False␤»
psch m: my @a = *; my @b = [1]; say @b ~~ @a
camelia rakudo-moar 7fc078: OUTPUT«True␤»
psch +Whatever handling for the RHS
timotimo and it skips over whatever stars, like psch is demonstrating
psch so first-level identity, not deep comparison 12:16
timotimo++
m: my $a = 1; say $a === *; 12:23
camelia rakudo-moar 7fc078: OUTPUT«WhateverCode.new␤»
psch ...right
timotimo :P
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FROGGS[mobile] ab5tract: fsdo lazy, yes 12:46
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FROGGS[mobile] ab5tract: you get filehandles you can read/write lines from/to 12:59
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ab5tract The IO docs could use some love, but I'm not quite sure where lizmat++ is at with newio 12:59
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ab5tract FROGGS[mobile]: I assumed so, but wanted to be sure. 13:01
psch: does that behavior surprise you? 13:02
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psch ab5tract: which? Whatever currying ===? 13:02
no, i'm just a bit rusty :P 13:03
ab5tract yeah
:)
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ab5tract I recently doc'd the behavior of Whatever and WhateverCode WRT to Whatevers stored in variables, so it's fresh in my mind 13:03
psch i'm also mostly cognitively loaded with trying to figure out how to invoke a Rakudo-level CompilationUnit... 13:04
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psch 'cause that's the first step and having written-as-perl6, self-executing jars 13:04
s/and/in/
and i'd really like to be able to write perl6 and ship it to users who don't have rakudo-j installed 13:05
ab5tract That would be amazing
psch well, it'd still be huge jars
like, whole runtime of course
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psch although maybe there's a way to trim based on coverage for class files... 13:06
RabidGravy people with bigger brains than me: is there something about the number representation for Num that might cause it to be less accurate ±0.5 ? 13:07
around ^
psch not less accurate than IEEE754 in general, i'd hope 13:08
colomon RabidGravy: context? it’s basically just a standard floating point double. 13:09
RabidGravy I've got an array of 50 Nums and writing it into a wav file using libsndfile and then reading it back it's only the few frames around the ±0.5 around the third or fourth decimal place 13:10
that differ
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moritz so this is not about arithmetics, but about (de)serialization 13:10
RabidGravy dunno, that's why I ask 13:11
it's six out of fifty which seems strange
moritz it's hard to tell without knowing how you do the comparison, input and output
iirc the default stringification loses precision 13:13
RabidGravy er, there is no stringification
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RabidGravy @array of nums -> CArray[num64] -> sf_writef_float() -> sf_readf_float -> CArray[num64] -> @array of nums 13:14
then comparing the starting array and the finishing array values numerically 13:16
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moritz if you swap the "sf_writef_float() -> sf_readf_float" steps out for just copying in-memory, do you still get that behavior? 13:20
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vendethiel m: given "foobar" { say "it's $_'s turn" } 13:25
camelia rakudo-moar 7fc078: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/x5HFuntxNY␤Variable '$_'s' is not declared␤at /tmp/x5HFuntxNY:1␤------> 3given "foobar" { say "it's 7⏏5$_'s turn" }␤»
vendethiel yeaaah. about that :P
vendethiel uses $($_) instead
colomon would prefer {$_} in his code 13:28
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arnsholt $($_) has slightly different semantics, too, doesn't it? 13:32
RabidGravy: It's odd that you're getting rounding problems. How exactly are you computing your values and writing them to file? 13:33
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RabidGravy arnsholt, I'm not computing them in the sense I took an existing WAV file read 25 frames into an array and printed the values to construct some test data for each of short, into, float and doubles and attempt to round-trip them through the appropriate libsndfile functions 13:37
arnsholt Right. So you read some stuff in with libsndfile, and then write them back out again with the same lib. So this is mostly NativeCall code, I assume? 13:38
RabidGravy er yes 13:39
arnsholt That's odd
RabidGravy I'm actually beginning to wonder whether the particular pattern I am seeing is an artefact of the dithering strategy libsndfile uses 13:40
colomon what is the range of values of the nums?
moritz and, uhm, don't wav files store integers? 13:41
RabidGravy yes, hence "the dithering strategy"
they don't actually have to store integers 13:42
the nums are in the range of ±1 13:43
let me try this with a floating point format, maybe I'm asking too much
moritz TIL
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colomon yeah, it definitely seems like it is very weird to have ±0.5 be the problem if the range is ±1 13:50
RabidGravy ignore me, there may be some issue somewhere but using a float format it gets it right
colomon Why don’t you forget libsndfile and just code up simple C to store a num64 array and let you retreive it later… 13:51
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RabidGravy because libsndfile can open, read and write some 26 formats of sound files in 24 different encodings 13:53
hoelzro o/ #perl6
colomon RabidGravy: no, no, not to skip libsndfile as a goal, just to skip it and see if the nums transfer correctly. 13:54
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colomon ie rakudo problem or libsndfile problem/misuse. 13:54
ie *is it a rakudo...
psch o/ hoelzro 13:55
hoelzro timotimo: good points all around; I required the RT because GH will link #\d+ to its own issues
o/ psch
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timotimo ah, good point 13:58
but our RTs start somewhere in the thousands
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hoelzro true 14:00
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hoelzro so maybe \d{3,}, then? 14:02
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hoelzro heck, the lowest I've seen are 5 digits 14:03
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RabidGravy colomon, I've concluded that because when I write the same floats to a *float encoded WAV* and read them back as floats it comes back exactly the same that isn't rakudo's problem 14:06
I'm just either being thick or expecting to much of something or both 14:07
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timotimo remember that float is 32bit and our num are 64bit 14:12
... or is that what you're already saying?
RabidGravy yep, the floats are going into and out of CArray[num32] 14:13
timotimo oh
do we actually properly support that?
RabidGravy it seems so
there is some trouble with num64/doubles but hey
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RabidGravy on the whole I'm quite pleasantly surprised that it works so well 14:15
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RabidGravy it's going to be either more fun testing the sample rate conversion 14:22
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arumugam p6: say 3; 14:59
camelia rakudo-moar 7fc078: OUTPUT«3␤»
arumugam hi
psch hi arumugam 15:00
arumugam sir
i would like to use perl6
i have written modules, programming in perl <6
psch rakudo.org/how-to-get-rakudo/ is a decent starting point, although not bleeding edge 15:01
especially windows is a few months behind, iirc
arumugam is there any possibility to create exe in perl6
psch i don't think so, no, but i'm not that involved in the backend that could support that
arumugam say if i would like to distribute my coding do i need the client to have perl 6 installed? 15:02
RabidGravy currently yes
arumugam i also couldnt find the activate state version for perl 6 15:04
RabidGravy er
psch there is no activestate version of Perl 6
arumugam er?
o.i.c
psch we have an MSI, you can find it on the link i wrote above
arumugam is there any new specific and feature rich ide for perl6 15:05
psch but as mentioned, it's a bit out of date, if i'm not misinformed
arumugam thank you psch
FROGGS[mobile] yes, latest msi is from march
IIRC
RabidGravy some Linux distributions have rakudo* of various uptodateness
15:06 espadrine left
arumugam dear all thank you for replying 15:06
AlexDaniel debian has 2014.07
arumugam: you can try perl6-mode in emacs 15:07
arumugam: that's not an IDE, but it might work for you
RabidGravy fedora has ~ 2015.04
AlexDaniel arumugam: especially if you already use emacs, if that's the case
arumugam emacs for windows
is that available only for linux? 15:08
how about padre does it support perl6
RabidGravy no
nor eclipse afaik
AlexDaniel RabidGravy: that's pretty new :) 15:09
RabidGravy yeah I was quite surprised when the update came through a few weeks ago 15:10
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arumugam once again thank you geeks 15:11
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AlexDaniel hm 15:12
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AlexDaniel that was weird 15:13
psch hm 15:14
sometimes i'd like a mapping of qb_* functions to blocks
but then i try to imagine how to implement that and resign :s 15:15
s/functions/methods/
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timotimo quickbasic functions? 15:15
psch no, generated methods in the jvm backend :P 15:16
QastBlock, i guess
*QAST
timotimo mhm :S 15:17
psch also 92 levels deep stacktrace with ~80% invokedynamic isn't helping :D
like, right now a "Cannot call method 'unshift' on a null object." points at an END block in CORE.setting 15:18
so i don't have @END_PHASERS, i guess? 15:19
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psch yeah, i'm probably still approaching this wrong :/ 15:20
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psch oh, no, approach might be right. we're creating @END_PHASERS in main.nqp and i'm skipping that 15:26
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FROGGS $ perl6 -Ilib -e 'use IO::Pipe; my $p1 = shell("dir", :out); my $p2 = shell("wc", :in($p1.out), :out($*ERR))' >/dev/null 15:35
110 219 3981
\o/ \o/
psch FROGGS++ 15:36
FROGGS $ perl6 -Ilib -e 'use IO::Pipe; shell("wc", :in("VERSION".IO.open), :out($*ERR))' 15:43
1 1 8
I'd say it is becoming sane
and I also think the interface makes sense and is intuitive
timotimo ooooh
psch wow that's neat 15:44
FROGGS merging out+err does not work yet
(unless someone would accept segfaults)
timotimo: you're writing the weekly tomorrow? can you mention the mingw (gcc+gmake that's shipped with strawberry) changes? 15:47
timotimo i'd love to :) 15:50
FROGGS :o) 15:51
sadly I wont be able to merge the run()/shell() changes... need to port it to jvm first
timotimo i'm always amazed that you port all that stuff you do to the jvm, too :) 15:52
FROGGS timotimo: well, I have to to not break the build 15:54
and I surely dont want to #?moar it...
though, that may happen in the next weeks anyway 15:55
we'll see
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timotimo :) 16:00
you're doing excellent work, i must say
FROGGS thanks :o)
timotimo i should probably be inspired to continue working on udp sockets :S
FROGGS what was the problem with that ooc? 16:01
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timotimo hm 16:02
good question
i don't think there was a particular blocker
16:03 skids joined
FROGGS just needs doing, ehh? :o) 16:03
timotimo mhm 16:04
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RabidGravy timotimo, uf you get really bored local sockets would be nice too ;-) couple of things on my TODO want them :) 16:08
timotimo as soon as UDP is implemented, i want someone to implement QUIC or what it's called on top of it :P
unix domain sockets, yes? 16:09
RabidGravy yaw, but I avoided "unix" as people seem to get concerned about things that aren't cross platform ;-) 16:10
timotimo do the other platforms have something similar?
windows especially?
the thing i wasn't sure about for UDP was if there should be anything async-related with that
asynchronous send with udp doesn't make sense
but receive kind of does, perhaps
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brrt \o 16:12
timotimo: UDP is inherently asynchronous
as in
you may synchronously wait for a package
timotimo yeah, none of the calls you can make block, right?
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timotimo ok, maybe recv does 16:12
brrt but you can't synchronously send one
aye
timotimo so what should the perl6-level interface look like?
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brrt and windows should just have UDP support 16:13
timotimo i meant unix domain sockets when i asked for windows :)
brrt i suppose... a supply?
hmm.
closest thing would be a named pipe i guess
RabidGravy well the window doesn't support af_unix but does have named pipes which are the same kind of thing
timotimo we don't have to have an async udp socket and a sync udp socket, right?
we could just have it be a single thing and have a flag "is being tapped" that would prevent the user from receiving a message "synchronously" and vice versa? 16:14
brrt no. an async udp socket can always be 'wrapped' to make it appear sync on recv
brrt nods
UDP is really very extremely useful
skids (For that matter a sync UDP socket can be "wrapped" in an async waiter)
brrt hmm, yes, i suppose that's true, too 16:15
timotimo skids: might be, but i'd prefer giving the user an event-loop-based waiter rather than something that gobbles up one of our precious threads
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brrt this is going to sound pretty much like an excuse, but it's probably best to do things the 'libuv way' if you can 16:16
skids timotmo: that's been my instinct too but ISTR the merits of that instinct being challenged recently.
brrt because libuv is very much an opinionated way to deal with io
skids: why is that?
timotimo yeah, it is
skids I'll have to find the discussion. My memory is rater foggy. 16:17
RabidGravy but I think libuv has some abstractION
timotimo there's a milestone for moar that'd be a re-implementation of the synchronous I/O portions without an event-loop thingie
skids just got up
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RabidGravy the way that Node.js does unix domain sockets is cool 16:26
psch hrm, definitely missing an important step in approach :/ 16:28
trying to fill GlobalExt from the java side doesn't do anything, which means i definitely have to run perl6 first 16:29
but that means i need to stuff something in there that runs CORE without going towards what we do in main.nqp 16:30
and then invoke the CU from the precompiled .class
that's mostly prompted by @END_PHASERS still erroring out when it's a BOOTArray, and hllizing it doesn't do anything either 16:31
lizmat good *, #perl6! 16:33
yoleaux 13 Jun 2015 20:37Z <jepeway> lizmat: i left some comments on cead6f13c7e537b7a6b16454a66e41d2d55dfcf0; there's a stray say or so to remove, and reliance on Int.new() that either needs implementation (moritz++) or changing
psch o/ lizmat 16:34
skids o/ lizmat
RabidGravy erp
lizmat psch: /me is a java noob, so can't help you with that
psch lizmat: i have a hunch it's lack of architecture understanding in general, tbh 16:35
lizmat well, that would go for me as well :-)
skids lizmat: irclog.perlgeek.de/perl6/2015-06-13#i_10746333 long discussion about RT#124084
synbot6 Link: rt.perl.org/rt3/Public/Bug/Display...?id=124084
psch but the architecture between jvm and mvm are kinda different too, i suppose
skids oh, well, less long a discussion than I remembered. 16:37
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lizmat is trying to get the page, but bandwidth is low 16:38
skids Shhh. everyone stop talking, lizmat needs to download :-)
lizmat hehe : problem at this side, in Libby MT 16:39
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FROGGS[mobile] psch: maybe we should meet? where do you live again? 16:51
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psch FROGGS[mobile]: i'm in Osnabrück currently 16:53
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psch FROGGS[mobile]: and will be for probably at least a few months if not years 16:56
i'm planning to move, but that'll probably take a bit of time 16:57
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FROGGS[mobile] psch: you ever visited Berlin? I'd buy you a beer ;o) 17:07
psch FROGGS[mobile]: i actually lived there for about 2 years, long before getting involved, and it'd also be my new hometown of choice, so, probably? ;) 17:09
s/, so, probably// 17:14
grammar can be hard, sometimes 17:15
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FROGGS[mobile] aye 17:15
when you feel tempted to enjoy beer, talk and hack near Berlin then please let me know 17:16
psch yup, will keep that in mind :) 17:17
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lizmat_ sightseeing& 17:18
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RabidGravy FROGGS, get me a booking for a live set and I'll be over ;-) 17:20
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psch that reminds me of my (currently hibernating) efforts of PortAudio bindings and an interactive shell for live coding music... 17:22
tried to get inspired by ex tempore, but Array was way too slow 17:23
RabidGravy psch, I was thinking about PortAudio just now
is it on github?
psch github.com/peschwa/Audio-PortAudio
it got borked when the signature and return type stuff got better 17:24
like, typed arrays i think broke it
also Pointer (or is that Void now?=
*)
so, it's really not useable right now
there's also github.com/peschwa/eigmip6 which went via jvm interop 17:25
but that didn't work out particularly well either for interactive stuff
i pretty much just barrelled along, without much concern for design, at least for eigmip6 :s 17:27
RabidGravy psch, I may take a look when I've done with the Sndfile thing. And before the icecast client ;-) 17:29
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RabidGravy if you're up for some PRs 17:29
psch sure
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RabidGravy more Audio::* is the way forward 17:33
psch :D 17:34
i really dig the stuff andrew sorensen does with ex tempore
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psch but i'm not much of a lisper 17:35
RabidGravy Need to tempt yaxxu back from Haskell or whatever new language he's made recently 17:36
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psch the oscon '14 keynote is pretty cool 17:37
i don't know yaxxu
RabidGravy Alex Mclean, quite big in the live coding/algo-rave thing 17:38
FROGGS RabidGravy: you are from .co.uk? 17:41
RabidGravy yaw
FROGGS RabidGravy: mind coming to the Swiss Perl Workshop?
RabidGravy hence the beer and swearing
FROGGS :P
17:41 yqt left
FROGGS RabidGravy: we'll get you drunk, no worry :D 17:41
RabidGravy when is that? 17:42
FROGGS Aug 26th 17:43
RabidGravy I worked in Rottkreuz for six months about ten years ago
17:43 steve_mc joined
RabidGravy most expensive beer in the world in Luzern 17:44
FROGGS :S 17:45
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psch hrm, i'm really not sure how this would go 17:49
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psch i mean, usually we run the perl6.jar comp unit 17:49
and feed it args, which are either -e or a file
but instead i want to feed it a precompiled CompUnit 17:50
which means i have to skip a few stages, or do the normal start-up stuff myself
or somehow wrangle the precompiled compunit into the perl6.jar compunit, maybe?
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RabidGravy are precompiled modules done as .jar files with JVM? 17:52
psch yeah, my case is not about modules though 17:53
but about normal scripts
the aim is to be able to package jars that can run on any system with java, i.e. even huger than what maven calls uber-jars 17:54
'cause we'd need the whole r-j runtime
RabidGravy no. no but it's the same, except the "COmpunit" i.e. the jar has an entry point 17:55
psch well, yes
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psch that's the thing though, a CompUnit of a script doesn't actually have an entryQbid CodeRef 17:56
i've only found the actual interpreter with an entryQbid CodeRef, i.e. perl6.jar
the whole bootstrapping thing doesn't make this easier to grok for me either :s 17:58
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FROGGS Stage parse : Method 'multi' not found for invocant of class 'Sub' 18:04
:o(
RabidGravy oops 18:06
18:06 Ben_Goldberg left
RabidGravy but hey that's the fun of software 18:07
FROGGS yeah :/ 18:08
*narf*
found it
hint: when you test stuff outside of the setting, and finally add it to the setting, remove any 'is export' trait 18:09
psch heh
psch takes a nap 18:10
i'm not seeing any way further, maybe that helps
o/
FROGGS psch o/
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itz_ and virtualsue will buy RabidGravy a beer if he makes it to .ch 18:15
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RabidGravy I'd forgot "Cannot parse /home/jonathan/.rakudobrew/moar-nom/install/share/perl6/site/panda/projects.json as JSON: Input (295 characters) is not a valid JSON string" 18:57
masak RabidGravy: can you paste the contents of projects.json somewhere? (like a gist, perhaps?) 18:59
skids wget that file from ecosystem-api.p6c.org/projects.json and then update stuff, ISTR it got fixed.
18:59 Gardner left
RabidGravy masak, it was the web server's 40<something> page 19:00
the panda just eeds to adjust the way it downloads the file
masak oh! 19:01
...and you're preparing a PR for that as we speak? :)
FROGGS this was working reliably before the last two commits to panda :o(
RabidGravy i.e download to a different place and only move it into place 19:02
on success
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RabidGravy masak, I will when I've done what I'm doing 19:02
masak \o/ 19:05
skids I ran into some git timeouts on moarvm submodules last night while testing a rakudobrew PR, BTW.
But they were sporadic.
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TimToady m: say all(1,2,3) ~~ Int 19:18
camelia rakudo-moar 7fc078: OUTPUT«False␤» 19:19
TimToady I suspect we have the default behavior wrong on this one
m: say all(1,2,3) ~~ Junction 19:20
camelia rakudo-moar 7fc078: OUTPUT«True␤»
19:20 Gardner joined
TimToady we can probably keep that one True, and let the other one also be True 19:20
masak that sounds fantastic -- how would that work? 19:21
TimToady just define Any.ACCEPTS differently
masak I mean either (a) it hyperthreads, and matches the elements against the type, or (b) it doesn't, and only Junction will match.
TimToady there is no "it", other than the object on the right 19:22
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TimToady and the object on the right gets to decide how to match 19:22
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TimToady and Junction can choose differently than Int 19:22
skids S03 currently: 'both ~~ and given/when provide item contexts to their arguments, and autothread any junctive matches so that the eventual dispatch to .ACCEPTS never sees anything "plural"'
masak TimToady: ah, yes. got it.
TimToady in any case, if we *couldn't* have it both ways, I think we should err on the side of what mere mortals will expect 19:23
but I think we probably can have it both ways in this case
m: say any(1,2,3) ~~ 2 19:24
camelia rakudo-moar 7fc078: OUTPUT«any(False, True, False)␤»
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dalek kudo/openpipe3: 9267294 | FROGGS++ | / (8 files):
add Proc, Proc.run() and Proc.shell

This deprecates pipe(), and Proc::Status.		 19:54
ugexe strange... I have a Proc::Async that no longer finishes as of 14 hours ago on travis, but works fine on local machines 19:55
FROGGS weird 19:57
ugexe whats stranger is there are similar Proc::Async process before this that work ok on travis. for whatever reason the promise never leaves the planned state 20:02
hoelzro gtodd1: ping 20:04
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ugexe for whatever reason FROGGS your seeminly unrelated patch seems to have fixed it 20:06
FROGGS ? 20:07
ugexe: the patch about mingw? 20:08
ugexe the 'add Proc, Proc.run() and Proc.shell' from just now
FROGGS but that one is in a dev branch
so you probably hit a flapper 20:09
ugexe ah. what does flapper refer to?
FROGGS a flapper is a piece of code that sometimes work and sometest doesn't, so you get different results by just rerunning it 20:10
ugexe thats the only kind of code i write 20:11
FROGGS ó.ò
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hoelzro gtodd1: I just tried Linenoise on FreeBSD, it works like a charm now =) 20:28
masak FROGGS: I've only heard "flapper" be used about tests which pass/fail unpredictably. 20:30
FROGGS masak: I'd also call any other function as flapping that changes the return value depending on the phase of the moon 20:31
masak right, right. agree. but I haven't heard it in that more general non-test sense until just now. 20:32
FROGGS yeah 20:33
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masak for me "flapping tests", cute as the term is, has always been short for "non-deterministic test": martinfowler.com/articles/nonDeterminism.html 20:34
guess that's the term you're looking for when you're talking about non-test code, too...
FROGGS probably, aye 20:36
skids "flapping" probably comes from networkese en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Route_flapping
20:39 Begi joined
skids Personally I would just use "unstable" if only the environment changes between runs and "metastable" if the behavior changes due to unrelated code changes. 20:39
Begi Hello ! How can I test the existence of a character in a list ? Thanks a lot ! 20:40
jnthn evening, #perl6
FROGGS hi Begi hi jnthn
japhb o/
skids Begi: a list of Str?
FROGGS Begi: say "a" ~~ any @list
for example
Begi Yes, with only letters 20:41
FROGGS m: my @a = 'a'..'z'; say 'f' ~~ any @a 20:42
camelia rakudo-moar 7fc078: OUTPUT«True␤»
FROGGS m: my @a = 'a'..'z'; say '2' ~~ any @a
camelia rakudo-moar 7fc078: OUTPUT«False␤»
FROGGS m: my @a = 'a'..'z'; say '2' ~~ @a.first-index
camelia rakudo-moar 7fc078: OUTPUT«Cannot call first-index(Str: Str, Str, Str, Str, Str, Str, Str, Str, Str, Str, Str, Str, Str, Str, Str, Str, Str, Str, Str, Str, Str, Str, Str, Str, Str); none of these signatures match:␤ (Any: Bool:D $t, *%_)␤ (Any: Regex:D $test, *%_)␤ (An…»
FROGGS m: my @a = 'a'..'z'; say @a.first-index('f')
camelia rakudo-moar 7fc078: OUTPUT«5␤»
FROGGS m: my @a = 'a'..'z'; say @a.first-index('2')
camelia rakudo-moar 7fc078: OUTPUT«Nil␤»
skids m: <a b c d e>.first("f").say # if you want the letter back rather than the index. 20:43
camelia rakudo-moar 7fc078: OUTPUT«Nil␤»
BenGoldberg_ m: my @a = 'a'..'z'; say '2' ~~ @a.first-index('f') 20:48
camelia rakudo-moar 7fc078: OUTPUT«False␤»
BenGoldberg_ m: my @a = 'a'..'z'; say '2' ~~ @a.first-index('b')
camelia rakudo-moar 7fc078: OUTPUT«False␤»
BenGoldberg_ m: my @a = 'a'..'z'; say @a.first-index('b')
camelia rakudo-moar 7fc078: OUTPUT«1␤»
BenGoldberg_ m: my @a = 'a'..'z'; say '2' ~~ 2
camelia rakudo-moar 7fc078: OUTPUT«True␤»
BenGoldberg_ m: my @a = 'a'..'z'; say '2' ~~ $_ fo @a.first-index('b')
camelia rakudo-moar 7fc078: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/rGiAoDYdCm␤Two terms in a row␤at /tmp/rGiAoDYdCm:1␤------> 3my @a = 'a'..'z'; say '2' ~~ $_7⏏5 fo @a.first-index('b')␤ expecting any of:␤ infix␤ infix stopper␤ postfi…»
BenGoldberg_ m: my @a = 'a'..'z'; say '2' ~~ $_ for @a.first-index('b')
camelia rakudo-moar 7fc078: OUTPUT«True␤»
BenGoldberg_ headscratches. 20:49
skids m: ($_ for @a.first-index('b')).perl.say
camelia rakudo-moar 7fc078: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/p3TG19iYdu␤Variable '@a' is not declared␤at /tmp/p3TG19iYdu:1␤------> 3($_ for 7⏏5@a.first-index('b')).perl.say␤»
skids m: my @a = 'a'..'z'; ($_ for @a.first-index('b')).perl.say
camelia rakudo-moar 7fc078: OUTPUT«(1,)␤»
skids m: my @a = 'a'..'z'; ('2' ~~ $_ for @a.first-index('b')).perl.say 20:50
camelia rakudo-moar 7fc078: OUTPUT«(Bool::True,)␤»
BenGoldberg_ m: my @a = 'a'..'z'; say '2' ~~ @a.first-index('c')
camelia rakudo-moar 7fc078: OUTPUT«True␤»
BenGoldberg_ feels silly now. ;) 20:51
skids m: my @a = 'a'..'z'; ('2' ~~ $_ for 1).perl.say
camelia rakudo-moar 7fc078: OUTPUT«(Bool::True,)␤»
skids Yes, indexes are 0-based :-)
RabidGravy has anyone asked for that to changeable? 20:52
skids Not me. Probly if we attract lua users.
jnthn RabidGravy: S09 describes how to do custom indexing; it's possible but you have to use {...} syntax
RabidGravy or basic
BenGoldberg_ Isn't fortran 1 based? 20:53
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vendethiel i think so 20:53
RabidGravy so long since I've used a language that hasn't C heritage I don't care
Begi Thanks every body ! Have a nice day ! 20:54
20:55 Begi left
RabidGravy I sent a PR to Panda to crap out if it gets other than a 200 when retrieving the projects.json BTW 20:56
skids m: ("foo" ~~ $_).say; ("foo" ~~ $_.say); # Oh right, topicalization! I learned a new way to shoot oneself in the foot today :-) 20:58
camelia rakudo-moar 7fc078: OUTPUT«True␤foo␤»
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FROGGS PLEASE STEP UP, no release manager has signed up yet for the rakudo compiler release next Thursday! 21:15
github.com/rakudo/rakudo/blob/nom/..._guide.pod
masak 'night, #perl6 21:18
FROGGS gnight masak
FROGGS thinks that masak hides just in time :P 21:19
masak ;) 21:21
I think I'll be a little too busy this month. prefer someone else to step up. if no-one does, I can step up. 21:22
really 'night
FROGGS sleep well
hoelzro night masak
FROGGS: the 18th or the 25th?
FROGGS hoelzro: 2015-06-18 Rakudo #89 21:23
hoelzro hmm
I happen to giving a talk about Perl 6 that night
how long does it take to do?
I've never done it
FROGGS hoelzro: there is no reason to not move it by a day IMO
hoelzro: depends... if there is much to do you might need 6+ hours 21:24
hoelzro yikes
jnthn Another progress blog report: 6guts.wordpress.com/2015/06/14/thi...of-things/ :)
FROGGS but this time it might takes less than 4 hours
\o/
hoelzro FROGGS: I can do some of it (ex. tagging versions) the night before, right?
jnthn++ 21:25
FROGGS hoelzro: well, tagging versions is one of the last steps
testing, fudging, testing, jvm testing etc takes time
RabidGravy jnthn just reminded me to RT that CArray[num64] infelicity 21:26
hoelzro FROGGS: I'm probably biting off more than I can chew here, but I could probably do it Wednesday night
FROGGS hoelzro: I can help a little bit 21:27
ohh, but I have something to do wednesday evening... :/ 21:28
at least for about 2.5 hours
hoelzro I'll have to do it entirely before or after work
I could get up early on Thursday and do it
I could run the tests over night on Wednesday night 21:29
I'm guessing a lot of that 4 hours is waiting for tests?
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TimToady I'm relieved that when I change all(1,2,3) ~~ Int to work as we discussed, it fails some tests :) 21:35
skids jnthn++ 21:37
RabidGravy created #125408 to cover the num64 weirdness we discussed earlier
synbot6 Link: rt.perl.org/rt3/Public/Bug/Display...?id=125408
FROGGS hoelzro: yes, that might work out
21:37 Gardner left
FROGGS RabidGravy++ 21:37
hoelzro FROGGS: alright, sign me up
FROGGS TimToady: as if roast were mature? :o)
hoelzro I'll need some help on Wednesday, and then I'll finish Thursday morning
21:38 erdic joined, telex joined
dalek kudo/nom: 65a3fe9 | FROGGS++ | docs/release_guide.pod:
sign up hoelzro++ for next Thursday's release
 21:38
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cognominal jnthn++ # sounds like he multithreaded himself. Also if even we failed to clone him, he seems well in the path to procreation. 22:15
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RabidGravy I think I'll make Audio::Sndfile public tomorrow and add the asynchronous features later 22:37
better to get bug reports ;-) 22:38
nighty night 22:44
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BenGoldberg m: my int8 $a = 257; say $a; 22:58
camelia rakudo-moar 65a3fe: OUTPUT«1␤»
BenGoldberg m: .say for my int8 $ = 257;
camelia rakudo-moar 65a3fe: OUTPUT«257␤»
BenGoldberg m: (my int8 $ = 257).say; 22:59
camelia rakudo-moar 65a3fe: OUTPUT«257␤»
BenGoldberg m: (my int8 $ = 257).WHAT.say;
camelia rakudo-moar 65a3fe: OUTPUT«(Int)␤»
BenGoldberg m: (my int8 $a = 257).WHAT.say;
camelia rakudo-moar 65a3fe: OUTPUT«(Int)␤»
BenGoldberg m: (my int8 $a = 257); $a.WHAT.say;
camelia rakudo-moar 65a3fe: OUTPUT«(Int)␤»
skids Yeah intX are facsimiles right now. 23:03
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japhb m: class Foo is repr('CStruct') { has int8 $.a; }; my $f = Foo.new(:a(257)); say $f.a; 23:35
camelia rakudo-moar 65a3fe: OUTPUT«1␤»
23:35 Akagi201 left
japhb BenGoldberg, skids: ^^ 23:35
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skids japhb: yes also: 23:52
m: my uint32 @a = -1, 1; @a.say; my $b = buf32.new(-1,1); $b.say;
camelia rakudo-moar 65a3fe: OUTPUT«4294967295 1␤Buf[uint32]:0x<ffffffff 01>␤»
skids m: my int8 @a = 128, 1; @a.say; my $b = buf8.new(257,1); $b.say;
camelia rakudo-moar 65a3fe: OUTPUT«-128 1␤Buf[uint8]:0x<01 01>␤»
skids but..
m: my uint64 @a = -1, 1; @a.say; my $b = buf64.new(-1,1); $b.say;
camelia rakudo-moar 65a3fe: OUTPUT«-1 1␤Buf[uint64]:0x<-1 01>␤»
skids so just stay away from unsigned 64 bit for now. 23:53
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grondilu m: say my uint32 $ = -1 23:54
camelia rakudo-moar 65a3fe: OUTPUT«-1␤»
skids right, scalars are fakes.
grondilu LTA
23:56 mattp__ is now known as mattp-

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