»ö« Welcome to Perl 6! | perl6.org/ | evalbot usage: 'p6: say 3;' or rakudo:, std:, or /msg camelia p6: ... | irclog: irc.perl6.org | UTF-8 is our friend!
Set by masak on 12 May 2015.
ugexe the promise is also marked as kept 00:04
m: say Proc.new(:exitcode(42)) 00:06
camelia rakudo-moar 91212c: OUTPUT«Proc.new(in => IO::Pipe, out => IO::Pipe, err => IO::Pipe, exitcode => -1, pid => Any, signal => Any)␤»
ugexe FROGGS: github.com/rakudo/rakudo/blob/nom/...roc.pm#L14 BUILD needs :$!exitcode 00:13
for this line in Proc::Async: $!exit_promise.keep(Proc.new(:exitcode(status))) 00:14
japhb ugexe: Send a PR? The collection of people with commit rights in Rakudo is much larger (and spans many more timezones). 00:30
ugexe im testing it right now
japhb Excellent! 00:34
timotimo atweiden, raiph: you want "my Silo @silos" rather than "my Array[Silo] @silos", otherwise you're declaring an AoA 00:41
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atweiden timotimo: intended to be multidimensional array 00:52
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tony-o m: enum Silo <ASSETS EXPENSES INCOME LIABILITIES EQUITY>; my Array[Silo] @silos; my Silo @assets = ASSETS; @silos.unshift($(@assets)); say @silos.perl 00:56
camelia rakudo-moar 91212c: OUTPUT«Array[Array[Silo]].new(Array[Silo].new(Silo::ASSETS))␤»
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tony-o atweiden ^^ 00:58
ugexe nqp-m: nqp::say(nqp::istype(-1, Int));
camelia nqp-moarvm: OUTPUT«0␤»
ugexe m: use nqp; say nqp::istype(-1, Int);
camelia rakudo-moar 91212c: OUTPUT«1␤»
tony-o nqp-m: nqp::say(nqp::istype(-1, int)); 00:59
camelia nqp-moarvm: OUTPUT«0␤»
tony-o nqp-m: nqp::say(nqp::istype(-1, twitter));
camelia nqp-moarvm: OUTPUT«0␤»
tony-o nqp-m: nqp::say(nqp::istype(-1, int8)); 01:00
camelia nqp-moarvm: OUTPUT«0␤»
timotimo oh, now i see that, too 01:05
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raiph m: constant #`( s/constant/term/? ) scalar = $ = 42; say scalar; scalar--; scalar.say; 02:12
camelia rakudo-moar 91212c: OUTPUT«42␤41␤»
raiph m: constant #`( s/constant/term/? ) dict = { pi=>i, e=>now }; say dict; dict<pi>--; say dict.invert
camelia rakudo-moar 91212c: OUTPUT«e => Instant:1435371205.021879, pi => 0+1i␤Instant:1435371205.021879 => e -1+1i => pi␤»
raiph m: constant #`( s/constant/term/? ) list = [pi, e]; list[2] = True; say list; list>>--; say list; say [+] @(list)
camelia rakudo-moar 91212c: OUTPUT«3.14159265358979 2.71828182845905 True␤2.14159265358979 1.71828182845905 False␤3.85987448204884␤»
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raiph m: constant dict =%= pi, i, e, now; say dict; dict{pi}--; say dict.invert 02:24
camelia rakudo-moar 91212c: OUTPUT«2.71828182845905 => Instant:1435371876.325275, 3.14159265358979 => 0+1i␤Instant:1435371876.325275 => 2.71828182845905 -1+1i => 3.14159265358979␤»
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raiph .oO ( enjoying a few rounds of sigil golf ) 02:25
m: constant scalar =$= 10; scalar += 5; say [1,2] >>+>> scalar; 02:27
camelia rakudo-moar 91212c: OUTPUT«16 17␤»
raiph m: constant list =@= 10; list += 5; # compile error? 02:28
camelia ( no output )
raiph m: my @list = 10; @list += 5; # compile error?
camelia ( no output )
raiph m: constant list =@= 10,20; say list >>+>> 5 02:29
camelia rakudo-moar 91212c: OUTPUT«15 25␤»
raiph .oO ( s/constant/a/, where 'a' introduces a term, to enable "a foo =@= ..." etc.) 02:32
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ugexe Proc::Async exitcode PR sent 02:50
raiph ugexe++ 02:51
ugexe: Do you like or dislike the sigilless idiom (see ^^)? Do you know what it's downsides are? 02:52
ugexe i like sigils, because i feel it explains more naturally while reading left to right 02:56
raiph ugexe: Me too. I think it's a mistake to leave out the sigils in serious code. 02:57
Ben_Goldberg m: my @list = 10; @list += 5; say @list
camelia rakudo-moar 91212c: OUTPUT«6␤»
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raiph ugexe: Unless serious code includes code for beginners. 02:58
Ben_Goldberg: great example 02:59
m: constant foo = 1,2; #`( code much later ) foo += 5; say foo # not obvious that the increment of foo is wrong 03:02
camelia rakudo-moar 91212c: OUTPUT«Cannot modify an immutable Int␤ in block <unit> at /tmp/DMcRrUSE1g:1␤␤»
raiph Heh, interesting
ugexe problem is, if you put code like that out there for beginners it will become what people think is standard. sort of like how perl5 was plagued with terrible google results like matts script archive 03:03
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Ben_Goldberg m: my @x = 'Just Another Perl/Bidi Hacker,'.comb; print(chr(8237) ~ @x.shift ~ chr(8238) ~ @x.pop) while @x; 03:08
camelia rakudo-moar 91212c: OUTPUT«‭J‮,‭u‮r‭s‮e‭t‮k‭ ‮c‭A‮a‭n‮H‭o‮ ‭t‮i‭h‮d‭e‮i‭r‮B‭ ‮/‭P‮l‭e‮r»
ugexe if i have to write some ugly C-like code for whatever reason i might find it useful to have a slang to do that so I can make the code more terse
Ben_Goldberg m: my $x = +my @x = 'Just Another Perl/Bidi Hacker,'.comb; print 8237.chr, @x.shift, 8238.chr, @x.pop while @x; print 8236.chr x $x; 03:15
camelia rakudo-moar 91212c: OUTPUT«‭J‮,‭u‮r‭s‮e‭t‮k‭ ‮c‭A‮a‭n‮H‭o‮ ‭t‮i‭h‮d‭e‮i‭r‮B‭ ‮/‭P‮l‭e‮r‬‬‬‬‬‬‬‬‬‬‬‬‬‬‬‬‬‬‬‬‬‬‬‬‬‬‬‬‬‬»
raiph ugexe: I meant as introductory, lies-to-children code. Create an alias for 03:16
oops
Ben_Goldberg Lies-to-children are important. If noone told you: When playing, Reversi (aka Othello), whomever has the most corners at the end of the game wins... you'd play extraordinarily poorly, at least at first. 03:19
raiph m: constant foo = 1,2; #`( code much later ) foo += 5; say foo 03:24
camelia rakudo-moar 91212c: OUTPUT«Cannot modify an immutable Int␤ in block <unit> at /tmp/NwKu2T8_p_:1␤␤»
raiph m: constant foo =@= 1,2; #`( code much later ) foo += 5; say foo
camelia rakudo-moar 91212c: OUTPUT«7␤»
raiph m: constant @foo = 1,2; #`( code much later ) foo += 5; say foo 03:25
camelia rakudo-moar 91212c: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/0WWo3E3sqj␤Prefix + requires an argument, but no valid term found␤at /tmp/0WWo3E3sqj:1␤------> 3 @foo = 1,2; #`( code much later ) foo +7⏏5= 5; say foo␤ expecting any of:␤ prefix␤»
raiph m: constant @foo = 1,2; #`( code much later ) @foo += 5; say @foo
camelia rakudo-moar 91212c: OUTPUT«Cannot modify an immutable Int␤ in block <unit> at /tmp/Owht8dqc0b:1␤␤»
raiph m: constant @foo = [1,2]; #`( code much later ) @foo += 5; say @foo
camelia rakudo-moar 91212c: OUTPUT«7␤»
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tony-o m: \foo = Int.new(10); foo +=5; foo.say 04:24
camelia rakudo-moar 91212c: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/slJwFu7BUZ␤Preceding context expects a term, but found infix = instead␤at /tmp/slJwFu7BUZ:1␤------> 3\foo =7⏏5 Int.new(10); foo +=5; foo.say␤»
tony-o m: my \foo = Int.new(10); foo +=5; foo.say
camelia rakudo-moar 91212c: OUTPUT«Default constructor for 'Int' only takes named arguments␤ in block <unit> at /tmp/Ws2FHwOh59:1␤␤»
tony-o m: my \foo = $(1,2); foo +=5; foo.say 04:36
camelia rakudo-moar 91212c: OUTPUT«Cannot assign to a readonly variable or a value␤ in block <unit> at /tmp/AKn0reHeu0:1␤␤»
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dalek kudo/nom: 254eff9 | (Nick Logan)++ | src/core/Proc.pm:
bugfix: exitcode for Proc::Async

Proc::Async sets the exitcode via `Proc.new(:exitcode(1))` so BUILD requires a :$exitcode argument
See github.com/rakudo/rakudo/blob/nom/...nc.pm#L176		 06:04
kudo/nom: 0ff4557 | FROGGS++ | src/core/Proc.pm:
Merge pull request #449 from ugexe/patch-4

bugfix: exitcode for Proc::Async
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raiph .tell tony-o I've realized that use of {(...)} entirely eliminates the problems ("fooling around with ending a block and restarting a block or whatever ... buffering crap into a temp str to use that as the return value") 06:17
yoleaux raiph: I'll pass your message to tony-o.
raiph .tell tony-o (Also, that the say-in-say approach will end in tears) 06:18
yoleaux raiph: I'll pass your message to tony-o.
raiph .tell tony-o I've updated github.com/tony-o/perl6-template-p...e/issues/1 06:19
yoleaux raiph: I'll pass your message to tony-o.
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dalek c: 5e2a992 | RabidGravy++ | lib/Type/IO/Path.pod:
Add link/symlink
 07:18
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dalek c: 0b24f07 | RabidGravy++ | lib/Type/IO/Path.pod:
Add chdir()
 07:59
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jaffa4 hi all 08:35
How can I translate binmode? 08:36
I guess it is :bin in open
I would like to be able to set it independently
not at open
labster jaffa4: what do you mean by independently? 08:40
jaffa4 like binmode in Perl 5
labster Ah, you mean setting it on a filehandle outside of an open call. 08:42
my $fh = "foo".IO.open(); $fh.encoding('bin'); # should work, not sure if it does 08:44
hm, no test cases for this, not an encouraging sign 08:49
jaffa4: if you want binmode with a layer, like utf-8 or iso-8859-1 or windows-1252 -- all of those will work by passing it to the encoding function. I'm just not sure about actual binary binmode yet. 08:51
*encoding method
jaffa4 where is the source? 08:52
labster for this? /src/core/IO/Handle.pm, but it looks like I'll need to dig into NQP to see how it actually handles binary. 08:53
jaffa4 what is the url? 08:59
[Tux] m: IO::Handle.^methods».name.say 09:00
camelia rakudo-moar 0ff455: OUTPUT«FALLBACK gist new␤»
labster github.com/rakudo/rakudo/blob/nom/...le.pm#L572
[Tux] hmm, locally I get this: pipe open input-line-separator nl close eof get getc words lines read seek tell write opened t print print-nl slurp slurp-rest spurt copy chmod IO path flush encoding DESTROY e d f s l r w x modified accessed changed watch umask say Str gist perl <anon> <anon>
labster [Tux]: probably RESTRICTED.setting 09:01
m: say "/home/camelia/test".IO.open.^methods 09:04
camelia rakudo-moar 0ff455: OUTPUT«pipe open input-line-separator nl close eof get getc words lines read seek tell write opened t print print-nl slurp slurp-rest spurt copy chmod IO path flush encoding DESTROY e d f s l r w x modified accessed changed watch umask say Str gist perl <anon> <a…»
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RabidGravy looking at the code for IO::Handle it would seem that the only major thing that :bin does at that level is *not* set any encoding 09:08
jaffa4 yes, but encoding is set, how to undo it 09:09
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labster read it in as ascii, and then call .encode on the string to get a Buf? not awesome. 09:09
RabidGravy read will just get the bytes anyway doesn't it? 09:10
labster yes. 09:11
m: "test".IO.open.read(20).say 09:12
camelia rakudo-moar 0ff455: OUTPUT«Buf[uint8]:0x<>␤»
labster perhaps I should try that on a bigger file :D
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labster I wish there was someone around who could give a more definitive answer, but early Saturday morning is not the best time for this channel. 09:14
This is something that should work and be documented, though. 09:15
And tested, of course.
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RabidGravy there isn't an nqp op for the opposite of setencoding as far as I can tell 09:16
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labster QASTOperationsMAST.nqp:QAST::MASTOperations.add_core_moarop_mapping('setencoding', 'setencoding', 1); It's just sent straight down the the VM anyway. 09:17
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labster night, #perl6 09:27
RabidGravy erp
Woodi hallo #perl6 09:29
RabidGravy erp
Woodi grammars kills me constantly :) gist.github.com/anonymous/bcb011dc022b76857855
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Woodi G1 works, G2 IMO should be simple replacement but don't work... 09:29
RabidGravy Woodi, change the "rule parts" to "token parts" 09:31
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Woodi yay :) 09:34
RabidGravy a, er, rule of thumb is that a "rule" is the combination of some tokens
not strictly accurate but it helps me remember ;-) 09:35
Woodi so tokens as "leaves" and rules as "nodes", will try that. thanx :) 09:36
RabidGravy pretty much, it's down to the difference between the implicit flags applied to the "rule", "token" and "regex" largely 09:38
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RabidGravy right, off out now 09:50
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lizmat good *, #perl6! 11:03
m: Proc::Status.new # where did it go? 11:04
camelia rakudo-moar 0ff455: OUTPUT«Could not find symbol '&Status'␤ in block <unit> at /tmp/_JwT2ZYuIi:1␤␤»
lizmat there's a Proc::Status class in the setting... 11:05
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jaffa4 how would you translate this &(%linkage{$opt})($A,$B.$C) from Perl 5 11:13
?
moritz %linkage{$opt}($A, $B, $C) 11:16
jaffa4: but I doubt that what you wrote is actually valid perl 5 code
jaffa4 moritz: ... and you are right 11:17
let us approximately
moritz no, it's good to be precise when talking about syntax 11:18
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dalek kudo/nom: acaeb17 | lizmat++ | src/core/IO/Handle.pm:
Revive Proc::Status

This is a bandaid. Some recent changes made Proc::Status disappear from the world when still having code defining it. Suspect some sort of MOP messup with creating parent packages. By creating a stub for the parent package beforehand, we seem to have quelched the issue. Something that needs to be investigated further!		 11:33
lizmat interestingly, now test 13 in t/spec/S17-procasync/basic.t (line 39) fails because the returned object is a Proc rather than a Proc::Status 11:37
whereas the other tests work out ok afterward
.tell jnthn you might want to have a look at why github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/acaeb17897 was needed to revive Proc::Status 11:38
yoleaux lizmat: I'll pass your message to jnthn.
lizmat .tell jnthn as an added datapoint, check why test 13 in t/spec/S17-procasync/basic.t (line 39) fails 11:41
yoleaux lizmat: I'll pass your message to jnthn.
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lizmat looking at #125485, I guess 12:00
synbot6 Link: rt.perl.org/rt3/Public/Bug/Display...?id=125485
lizmat m: "{ @_ }" # is just an expression of: 12:01
camelia rakudo-moar acaeb1: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/V4Li3mqwS1␤Placeholder variable @_ may not be used here because the surrounding block takes no signature␤at /tmp/V4Li3mqwS1:1␤------> 3"{ @_ }7⏏5" # is just an expression of:␤ expecting any of…»
lizmat m: -> { @_ } # this one
camelia rakudo-moar acaeb1: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/FbH2YyCuDC␤Placeholder variable '@_' cannot override existing signature␤at /tmp/FbH2YyCuDC:1␤------> 3<BOL>7⏏5-> { @_ } # this one␤»
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lizmat perhaps use of @_ and $^a in blocks should be referring to the first outer code instead ? 12:10
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moritz but then you couldn't say reduce { $^a + $^b }, @vals 12:13
just write explicit signatures for routines that contain other blocks, and you're fine 12:14
jaffa4 Is perl6-debug-m supoosed to work?
What is the state of perl6-debug-m? 12:15
lizmat moritz: good point 12:17
well, hmmm... then perhaps only if the block is part of an interpolated string? 12:18
I can see that as something that would help p5 -> 6 migration
anyways, afk until later today&
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jaffa4 What could help? 12:24
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jaffa4 I have a code which seems to fail without saying a word 13:11
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Woodi RabidGravy++ # mixing rules with tokens works :) 13:24
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Woodi about GLR: for me "tuples" sound weird too. they was used in old relational database texts so they have v. old-ish conotations... 13:27
pmurias nqp-js: say("still alive...?");
camelia nqp-js: OUTPUT«/bin/sh: node: command not found␤»
Woodi Nil is planned to disappear ? so how to get results with NULLs from db ? 13:28
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pmurias would just having it as DBI::NULL be a problem? 13:29
Woodi also in 1990 Mr. Codd augmented relational database theory with one more NULL, some 4th-valued-logic... 13:30
timotimo and why wouldn't a type object be a good fit?
Woodi pmurias: you get data from db, ( "J.Kowalski", male, Nil, Nil), this looks nice... 13:31
timotimo the cool thing about type objects is you still get to know what type the column has 13:32
also: oh god, NULL values are EVIL in SQL :)
Woodi timotimo: I don't know. but we have some Mu's so maybe someone already thinking about this :)
timotimo: but 'we don't know value for that' is proper answer... at least to keep shape of tables :) 13:33
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AlexDaniel So, how can I run a shell command, get its output, and have the parameters quoted correctly? This link describes everything besides shell quoting perl6advent.wordpress.com/2014/12/...om-perl-6/ 13:50
this was a painful perl5 problem which required CPAN dependency (ShellQuote) 13:52
moritz AlexDaniel: doc.perl6.org/type/Proc::Async
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AlexDaniel moritz: are you sure that it actually answers my question? 13:53
geekosaur um? you could do it without ShellQuote
unless your notion of how to do it is incorrect from the start, which tbh is suggested by that response 13:54
(the correct answer is *don't use the shell*)
AlexDaniel thanks, that does not help as well
moritz: you see, most people will not bother with that 13:55
moritz: look at that perl6advent link and notice this line
my @commit_results = qqx/git commit -am "$message"/.lines;
clearly a mistake
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AlexDaniel so I'm asking how to fix that, and you tell me that the answer is to use Proc::Async. If that's true, do you understand that we will keep seeing shell injection everywhere? 13:56
FROGGS[mobile] AlexDaniel: use: run($prog, ..., :out)
moritz AlexDaniel: I'm just saying hat Proc::Async offers capturing and no need for quoting 13:57
FROGGS[mobile] that's available since yesterday
moritz oooh
AlexDaniel m: say run 'echo' 'test'
camelia rakudo-moar acaeb1: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/SBoxeFPZi0␤Two terms in a row␤at /tmp/SBoxeFPZi0:1␤------> 3say run 'echo'7⏏5 'test'␤ expecting any of:␤ infix␤ infix stopper␤ postfix␤ statement end␤ …»
FROGGS[mobile] comma 13:58
moritz no &run in camelia either, I think
AlexDaniel m: say run 'echo', 'test'
camelia rakudo-moar acaeb1: OUTPUT«run is disallowed in restricted setting␤ in sub restricted at src/RESTRICTED.setting:1␤ in sub run at src/RESTRICTED.setting:14␤ in block <unit> at /tmp/ci9sXRssZo:1␤␤»
AlexDaniel okay I'll recompile
FROGGS[mobile] AlexDaniel: look at S32-io/pipe.t
there are examples
AlexDaniel FROGGS[mobile]: thanks 13:59
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moritz FROGGS[mobile]: why does sub run do a 'try $proc.spawn(@args)'? (I mean, why the 'try'?) 14:08
FROGGS[mobile] moritz: I dunno, I forgot 14:12
moritz FROGGS[mobile]: looks dangerous to me
FROGGS[mobile] then we should remove it and test 14:14
moritz I'm doing a spectest as is, and hope that I'll remember to remove it and re-test when it finishes :-) 14:15
(or maybe I should do it on hack, not on my workstation :-)
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FROGGS[mobile] :o) 14:18
I guess it was about a "cmd not found" issue
ohh dang, I forgot to test run/shell on windows :S 14:19
moritz but the API is *very* nice, FROGGS[mobile]++ 14:20
and FROGGS++ too, I guess :-)
AlexDaniel $output = run('echo', $test, :out).out.get;
$output = qqx/echo $test/;
Huffmanly speaking, which one is better and why?
FROGGS[mobile] good question 14:22
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AlexDaniel FROGGS[mobile]: thanks for listening, I always feel ignored when I raise questions about shell quoting 14:24
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moritz I realize the defaults are maybe still the wrong way around, but now Perl 6 has a much nicer API for capturing err/out and no need for quoting 14:25
compared to p5
AlexDaniel the typical answer is "well, it works, so what's your problem?". Well, you can inject any arbitrary shell thing into it, that's the problem...
and if it had better Huffman coding I think that the problem will fade away 14:26
well, at least it will get better
FROGGS[mobile] AlexDaniel: I'll think about a sane and safe short-cut
moritz maybe have a quoting for that preserves scalars as single items, and only splits literals on spaces? 14:27
AlexDaniel that's what I though, actually 14:28
which basically means that it should autoquote variables, but then again, what does it mean to quote things correctly?
it depends on the underlying shell
jaffa4 Is this ok grep ($_ eq $opt, @hits)?
moritz so that my $foo = "a b"; my @list = q:w:S<echo $foo> is equivalent to my @list = ('echo', $foo) 14:29
jaffa4: it doesn't do what you want
jaffa4 std: grep ($_ eq $opt, @hits)
camelia std 28329a7: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5===␤Variable $opt is not predeclared at /tmp/7hVV_j54vO line 1:␤------> 3grep ($_ eq 7⏏5$opt, @hits)␤Variable @hits is not predeclared at /tmp/7hVV_j54vO line 1:␤------> 3grep ($_ eq $opt, 7⏏5@hits)␤Check failed␤FAILED 00:00…»
geekosaur I feel like insistence that making the naive shell quoting solution "work" is just encouraging security holes
moritz jaffa4: if $opt is a string, you can just do @hits.grep($opt) 14:30
AlexDaniel geekosaur: what do you mean?
moritz geekosaur: the point is to not need shell quoting
geekosaur yes, I understand this is not popular. the widest proof being how the Internet is rife with such security holes (mostly in the related area of SQL quoting)
moritz geekosaur: but always pass the argument list out-of-band
geekosaur moritz, but I was informed that avoiding the shell was not the correct answer
moritz geekosaur: who informed you, and it wasn't the correct answer to what question? 14:31
geekosaur because the question was shell quoting. never mind thaty the question is wrong
sigh
moritz minds that the question is wrong
geekosaur yes, I understand the point was to ask about shell quoting itself
moritz appeal to authority doesn't work well in here, sorry 14:32
geekosaur but, from a security standpoint,m the answer to that is "avoid it at all costs"
AlexDaniel yea the question was a bit wrong, you are right
geekosaur: if the answer is "use 'run'" then it is OK though
geekosaur because even when you think uyou've covrred all the cases, you get hit by shellshock *sigh*
(I mean, who expects their dhcp client is vulnerable to shell injection attack?) 14:33
moritz only those who you call "paranoid" 14:34
AlexDaniel geekosaur: so what do you recommend? Make 'run' better Huffmanly coded and that's it?
geekosaur I don't know. I feel like there is a tendency to say "people will use the simple solution so let's make it secure" and this fails when there is demonstrably no way to make it secure. But also demonstrably steering people away from the simple solution doesn't work 14:35
AlexDaniel geekosaur: good point
FROGGS[mobile]: backticks are not used? We can use backticks for that! Haha 14:37
FROGGS[mobile] AlexDaniel: with an argument list? :o)
AlexDaniel yeah :) 14:38
14:41 bjz left
dalek c: 9d2b828 | moritz++ | lib/Type/Proc.pod:
Document type Proc (and &run)
 14:44
c: d1bcc0a | moritz++ | lib/Type/IO.pod:
Fix documentation for &run in type IO
moritz FROGGS[mobile]: a short proof-read of those docs would be very much appreciated 14:45
AlexDaniel actually, we should listen to what geekosaur said 14:47
and after reading "Piping several commands is easy too." I realize that he is absolutely right
which probably means that qx should actually go away 14:49
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geekosaur unclear actually. the problem is if you remove it, someone will re-add it (probably in an even worse way) for convenience 14:53
see "steering people away from the simple solution doesn't work"
AlexDaniel what about qwx or something? 14:55
moritz FROGGS[mobile], jnthn: it's a bit unfortunate that Proc.out and Proc::Async.stdout have a diverging naming scheme
AlexDaniel that will split stuff by spaces and pass that to run
14:55 FROGGS joined
FROGGS[mobile] moritz: aye, and I'd vote for shorter names fwiw 14:58
FROGGS moritz: I'll proofread the docs this evening
I've got currently about five kids under age 6 around me 14:59
jaffa4 This is ok, right? return (0) if $passthrough; 15:02
timotimo i'd propose "return 0 if $passthrough" instead 15:05
15:05 FROGGS left 15:10 rindolf left 15:11 shlomif joined, tinyblak left, tinyblak joined
AlexDaniel FROGGS: "with an argument list? :o)" hm, it can do the same thing < > is doing 15:12
FROGGS[mobile] I was thinking about that, but I'm not sure about that yet 15:14
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japhb Apologies that I've only skimmed, but doesn't the quoting of << >> get what most people want from "shell quoting" when they don't *actually* want a shell? 15:19
Note << >> instead of < > 15:20
AlexDaniel japhb: I'm not really following you, can you show a code example? 15:21
japhb AlexDaniel: Well, I'm not caught up with the details of FROGGS++'s new implementations, but in the old days I might have said something along the lines of run(<< echo "foo $bar" @baz <<wheee>> >>) and expected it to work safely 15:25
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japhb I guess that should have been @baz[] 15:26
But my point was that << >> has a lot of the DWIM that people want from shell quoting without the danger of an actual shell parsing. 15:27
15:27 nys left
jnthn evening, #perl6 15:30
yoleaux 11:38Z <lizmat> jnthn: you might want to have a look at why github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/acaeb17897 was needed to revive Proc::Status
11:41Z <lizmat> jnthn: as an added datapoint, check why test 13 in t/spec/S17-procasync/basic.t (line 39) fails
japhb o/ jnthn 15:31
nwc10 good UGT heresy, jnthn
DB are less late than the scandawedigian railways?
15:31 CIAvash joined
AlexDaniel $output = run('echo', $test, :out).out.get; 15:32
$output = run(<<echo $test>>, :out).out.get;
$output = qqx/echo $test/;
timotimo << >> is still not properly implemented, right?
15:32 CIAvash left, CIAvash joined
AlexDaniel japhb: you see, it does make it easier 15:32
japhb: maybe just a bit
japhb AlexDaniel: Of course, you can use real guillemots, but the keyboard I am on is less than awesome for entering Unicode ... 15:33
timotimo « »
japhb And then it gets more readable
AlexDaniel oh right
and it is actually one character shorter then 15:34
15:34 tinyblak left
AlexDaniel still not shorter than qqx... 15:34
ugexe i look forwarding to writing my first run(<<$cmd $var>>.list>>.value>>)
15:34 araujo left
japhb I find I often "spend" that minor savings by adding an extra space before the first item and after the last. 15:34
Since Windows doesn't actually have multiple arguments, how is run() implemented there? 15:35
dalek kudo-star-daily: ff22ac7 | coke++ | log/ (2 files):
today (automated commit)
 15:36
rl6-roast-data: 25f8ebd | coke++ | / (9 files):
today (automated commit)
japhb (For precision, I mean that at the C runtime level, processes receive a single giant string, rather than pre-split command and args as in the *nix world -- and then they do their own command string parsing)
ugexe im not sure what the answer is, but you use %* in powershell
FROGGS[mobile] japhb: libuv handles it in some way 15:37
japhb fears that implementation
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FROGGS[mobile] we pass it a char ** 15:37
japhb Good for libuv for at least presenting the better API to its callers, I suppose. But man, I hope they've implemented something that all the C runtimes will handle correctly .... 15:38
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jnthn I suspect they've had more resources to think it through than we'd have been able to give to it if we'd solved it ourselves... :) 15:41
Plus it's presumably been exercised plenty thanks to node.js using libuv. 15:42
japhb True!
skids also looked at better commandline parsing (emulating legacy syntaxes) a couple weeks ago. 15:51
15:52 Ven joined
skids There wer a couple blockers for what I wanted to do. 15:52
The primary one was that Cursor doesn't work right yet from inside rules.
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skids So there was no way to build something like a <bag($bag)> subrule that would match strings from a bag anywhere in a grammar, but only as many times as they were in the bag. 15:53
Also I had to punt and rejoin ARGS with '\0' separators, for lack of matching against structural data. 15:54
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TimToady is home again, and finds the air at sea level is too thick now... :) 15:57
16:00 Ven left
jnthn I think the structural matching stuff is very post-6.0 :) Not sure what "Cursor doesn't work right yet" means, though... 16:03
skids You don't get a current .pos. 16:04
Or a current partial match.
jnthn Depends.
japhb Welcome back to the lowlands, TimToady!
jnthn You should if in, say, a code block 16:05
skids You don't though.
jnthn m: 'a' ~~ /(.) { say $/[0] } /
camelia rakudo-moar acaeb1: OUTPUT«｢a｣␤»
skids On the first time, sometimes you do. It is not reliable. 16:06
jnthn It'd help if you actualy showed code.
*actually
skids digs around in his stuff. 16:07
mst skids: you're currently telling one of the authors you know his code better than him, without showing any examples
skids: this is ... unlikely to help anybody
jnthn On the <bag($bag)> thing, where did you plan to keep the "how many we saw" state?
skids Dynamic probably.
jnthn In TOP?
skids Likely defined in a custom .parse. 16:08
mst perl5 has a rule for regexp questions where we ask for input, expected output, and what code you have so far 16:09
generally for fiddly stuff an example of that form is the only way to clearly communicate
so maybe that would be the best next step?
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skids mst: I actually have to be somewhere right now, so I can't do that right now. Was looking for a quick example but looks like I was doing it on cli, so I'll have to go see if it's still in my history. 16:11
mst skids: ok, just, "you don't though" isn't desperately easy to diagnose :) 16:12
TimToady pictures jnthn as a desperado... 16:13
mst if I was a gun fighter with his eyesight I'd be pretty desperate too
vendethiel *g* 16:14
jnthn m: grammar G { method parse(*@, :$bag) { my %*BAGGED := $bag.BagHash; my $*BAG-RX = /| @($bag.keys)/; callsame; }; token TOP { <.bag>+ }; token bag { (<{ $*BAG-RX }>) <?{ %*BAGGED{~$0}-- }> } }; say G.parse('aabbc', bag => bag <c b a a b >); say G.parse('aaabbc', bag => bag <c b a a b >); 16:15
camelia rakudo-moar acaeb1: OUTPUT«｢aabbc｣␤(Any)␤»
jnthn There's a quickly thrown together solution for the problem (or one like the problem) I think you're wanting to solve, btw. 16:16
oh, now I look at it it can be a tad simpler too 16:17
m: grammar G { method parse(*@, :$bag) { my %*BAGGED := $bag.BagHash; my $*BAG-RX = /| @($bag.keys)/; callsame; }; token TOP { <.bag>+ }; token bag { ($*BAG-RX) <?{ %*BAGGED{~$0}-- }> } }; say G.parse('aabbc', bag => bag <c b a a b >); say G.parse('aaabbc', bag => bag <c b a a b >);
camelia rakudo-moar acaeb1: OUTPUT«｢aabbc｣␤(Any)␤»
jnthn a thing of type Regex already interpolates proper
skids jnthn: yeah that's about where I started but it eventually started breaking in alternations/backtracking.
timotimo yeah, you can't do backtracking withouta bit of extra thought 16:18
jnthn Yeah, if you want to go backtracking you'll have fun with that approach
timotimo i actually had hoped we could get an UNDO phaser fired when backtracking over an embedded closure
TimToady backtracking doesn't tend to work with dynvars
skids I don't think you can do it at all, actually. I could not find a way.
timotimo you can detect you've backtracked by looking at your match object's "from" 16:19
record what you've matched so far at what position and subtract that from the original bag
AFK for a bit
jnthn Aye, I guess a lot of our usage of them in the Perl 6 grammar works out 'cus we do one-pass parsing.
TimToady indeed 16:20
skids timotimo: that was what I was trying to do but the .from was not carrying the value it should have been. And yes an undoish thing would obviate the need to do that. But I don;t knwo syntactically where we'd put it.
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timotimo { check if item is in the bag and remove item from bag, return success; UNDO { put item back into the bag } } 16:20
but it's NYI and also not specced to work at all 16:21
skids timotimo: and in some cases, .from isn't quite enough you need the current partial match, which was also not always showing wat it should have.
jnthn I suspect the problem isn't immediate backtacking, but backtracking higher up the tree.
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skids timotimo: I do think that's a good possibility. It keeps the code in one place. 16:22
Anyway, got to go now. I'll circle back on it later with a not-working example. :-) 16:23
jnthn If you're willing to mark those places you can probably write a method bag-transaction($rx) { my %rollback = %*BAG-HASH; my \result = self.$rx(); %*BAG-HASH = %rollback unless result; result }, which you'd call as <bag-transaction <foo-that-calls-bag>>
Not tested! :) 16:24
(But the mechanism - receiving and invoking a regex on the current Cursor - is the exact one that things like before and after use.) 16:25
fwiw, I don't think rt.perl.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=125485 is a bug at all; a block in an interpolation is just a normal block. 16:27
(We parse it exactly the same as one, and we'd better had, or people will get mighty upset if lexicals they declare in one leak out) 16:28
16:28 skids left
TimToady m: sub dump_array { say "({join ')(',OUTER::<@_>})\n"; } 16:29
camelia ( no output )
TimToady that is the correct way to write it
(me agreeing with jnthn++ here) 16:30
jnthn I do, however, somewhat fear we're not smart enough to go and placeholderize the surroudning block.
TimToady m: sub dump_array { say "({join ')(',OUTER::<@_>})\n"; }; dump_array(1,2,3)
camelia rakudo-moar acaeb1: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/FPkjZk6By8␤Calling dump_array(Int, Int, Int) will never work with declared signature ()␤at /tmp/FPkjZk6By8:1␤------> 3{ say "({join ')(',OUTER::<@_>})\n"; }; 7⏏5dump_array(1,2,3)␤»
jnthn ('cus we don't look so deeply into OUTER:: yet)
Should you be able to OUTER::<$^a> to declare a placeholder in your outer's scope too? :) 16:31
TimToady m: sub dump_array { @_; say "({join ')(',OUTER::<@_>})\n"; }; dump_array(1,2,3)
camelia rakudo-moar acaeb1: OUTPUT«(1)(2)(3)␤␤»
TimToady jnthn: well, as long as the code is being compiled in-line, seems like it's reasonable for it to work; can't do it from an EVAL of course 16:32
jnthn *nod*
While we're on it: do we also want OUTER::<$does-not-exist> to complain, or do we keep that late-bound? 16:33
TimToady std: { say OUTER::<$does-not-exist> }
camelia std 28329a7: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5===␤Variable OUTER::<$does-not-exist> is not predeclared at /tmp/TIHwEpx1SD line 1:␤------> 3{ say 7⏏5OUTER::<$does-not-exist> }␤Check failed␤FAILED 00:00 137m␤»
jnthn m: { say OUTER::<$does-not-exist> } # think it's not even an error
camelia rakudo-moar acaeb1: OUTPUT«(Any)␤»
jnthn std: { say OUTER::<$does-not-exist> }; say $does-not-exist 16:34
camelia std 28329a7: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5===␤Variable OUTER::<$does-not-exist> is not predeclared at /tmp/Al8jRu6sFb line 1:␤------> 3{ say 7⏏5OUTER::<$does-not-exist> }; say $does-no␤Variable $does-not-exist is not predeclared at /tmp/Al8jRu6sFb line 1:␤------> 3{ say OUTE…»
jnthn oops
std: { say OUTER::<$does-not-exist> }; my $does-not-exist
camelia std 28329a7: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5===␤Variable OUTER::<$does-not-exist> is not predeclared at /tmp/8gls_dbEUh line 1:␤------> 3{ say 7⏏5OUTER::<$does-not-exist> }; my $does-not␤Check failed␤FAILED 00:00 138m␤»
jnthn OK, so it really really does want a pre-decl.
TimToady yup
16:34 diana_olhovik__ left
jnthn OK...guess that and the placeholder thing make sense to fix together. 16:35
I should probably think about some shopping and dinner first, though...
TimToady this also fits in with the hypothetical COMPILING::, which doesn't even have to be lexically inside
would you mind picking up some half-and-half while you're out? 2% tastes funny in my coffee... 16:37
jnthn You...put dairy products in your coffee? o.O
vendethiel he did say it tasted funny... 16:38
jnthn :D
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jnthn I guess this is what 5 years in Scandinavia gets me. :) 16:38
mst whole milk or cream in a very dark coffee is nice occasionally 16:39
otherwise, yeah, wat
TimToady brews his coffee very dark
16:40 atroxaper joined
TimToady and half-and-half provides just about the right number of calories for bootstrapping one's brane if one is not a breakfast eater 16:40
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mst ah, right, which probably approximates whole milk with maybe a touch of extra cream 16:42
mst had to google to work out what it was ;)
jnthn mst: heh, me too :) 16:43
anyways, bbiab 16:44
TimToady well, supposedly half milk, half cream, but I doubt anyone hits that exactly...
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raydiak g'morning #perl6 16:57
dalek kudo/nom: 243e400 | moritz++ | src/core/Int.pm:
Give Int a constructor
kudo/nom: 99724b1 | moritz++ | src/core/Proc.pm:
Avoid swallowing exceptions from Proc.{spawn,shell}

  ... though I cannot find a case where it matters; at best it is a micro
optimization
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zostay is there a maximum line length for buffered IO? say when slurping or reading lines? 17:27
TimToady shouldn't be, or it's a bug 17:28
ever since Perl 1
zostay hmmm... ok, trying to figure out why panda has trouble reading the projects.json file on travis-ci.org 17:29
the file is downloading correctly onto the server, but something is going wrong when it slurps it or the JSON module parses it
trying to pin down which
might be related to the file system used there 17:30
17:30 FROGGS[mobile] left
ugexe dont know why the filesystem would manifest problems now suddenly 17:30
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zostay dunno, looks like the file is slurped correctly 17:30
got the correct number of bytes at least in my test 17:31
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zostay still can't figure out why JSON::Tiny chokes on the parse then, but doesn't choke on my own machine ever 17:32
in fact, it's not even consistent across builds, some of my builds are fine and some aren't, it seems
but the ones that aren't are consistently bad, but have an identical .travis.yml file
17:33 amurf joined
zostay debugging this is a PIT 17:33
PITA
17:35 FROGGS left
ugexe do you know what error it gives when it chokes? 17:36
RabidGravy memory? 17:37
17:37 amurf left
zostay travis-ci.org/zostay/perl6-ArrayHa...3264#L1072 17:38
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ugexe i take it that also happens if you dont wget the projects.json yourself? 17:39
zostay yes, i've checked the file and it's downloading all 123153 bytes (or whatever)
unless something is getting corrupted, it has the file 17:40
i don't see anything weird and json_pp will parse it just fine on travis-ci
ugexe and JSON::Tiny will not parse it? 17:41
zostay apparently not, it would be nice if JSON::Tiny could report where it is having the trouble
ugexe try 'from-json' (not loading JSON::Tiny) 17:42
dalek c: bf45d64 | FROGGS++ | lib/Type/IO.pod:
fix documentation of shell()
ugexe the built in json deal
your `cat ~/.rakudobrew/moar-nom/install/share/perl6/site/panda/projects.json` show no output 17:44
zostay that's weird, travis CI must have dropped the long line from the file, it was definitely there before 17:50
i've done ls -l in other builds in this troubleshooting series that shows the correct number of bytes still ;) 17:51
travis-ci.org/zostay/perl6-ArrayHa...17337#L172
cat is empty there too for some reason
i was first fooled though because travis cuts off extra long lines, it does not handle them well 17:52
ah... you can download the log and see the cat output 17:53
vendethiel moritz: thanks 17:56
zostay trying a new build with from-json() parsing lines to see what the output is
i give up for now... it just parsed correctly for me using both a pretty-printed version of the JSON and the original one-line long JSON 18:02
or i'm a complete moron 18:03
and my own META.info is wrong and i've been running down the wrong rabbit hole 18:04
dalek kudo/nom: 4638656 | TimToady++ | src/Perl6/Grammar.nqp:
explicitly disallow ::$foo and such
 18:05
vendethiel TimToady: aren't those $ going to interpolate? 18:07
oh, i'm dumb. it's by design obviously
18:08 FROGGS joined
jnthn m: ::$foo 18:08
camelia rakudo-moar 99724b: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/hC88J5S53P␤Two terms in a row␤at /tmp/hC88J5S53P:1␤------> 3::7⏏5$foo␤ expecting any of:␤ infix␤ infix stopper␤ statement end␤ statement modifier␤ s…»
jnthn std: ::$foo
camelia std 28329a7: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5===␤Two terms in a row at /tmp/okNtYcj63O line 1:␤------> 3::7⏏5$foo␤ expecting any of:␤ POST␤ feed_separator␤ infix or meta-infix␤ infixed function␤ postcircumfix␤ postfix␤ postfix_prefix_meta_operator␤ postop␤ sta…»
TimToady m: ::%foo 18:10
camelia rakudo-moar 99724b: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/drMnUERr7O␤Undeclared routine:␤ foo used at line 1␤␤»
TimToady well, yesterday timotimo++ was attempting ::&foo
which also looks like an infix
TimToady should also point out that he has already classified STD as a prototype that is being thrown away, so is not inclined to maintain it 18:12
ugexe m: FOO: my $bar = gather for ^5 { next FOO if $_ > 2; take $_ }; # is label on gather NYI? or is this just wrong? 18:14
camelia rakudo-moar 99724b: OUTPUT«Unhandled exception: No exception handler located for next_label␤ at src/gen/m-CORE.setting:13092 (/home/camelia/rakudo-inst-1/share/perl6/runtime/CORE.setting.moarvm:next:34)␤ from src/gen/m-CORE.setting:716 (/home/camelia/rakudo-inst-1/share/perl…»
jnthn ugexe: You want the label next to the for
TimToady otoh, there are still some things that STD does better, like implementing backtrack controls, and actually closing over its backtrack points... 18:16
ugexe ah ha
FROGGS jnthn: have you spectested today already? I wonder if my run()/shell() changes break anything there 18:24
jnthn: I no access to my windows box currently
especially S32-io/pipe.t is of interest 18:25
jnthn FROGGS: No, but I've got a fresh build done :) 18:26
FROGGS \o/
jnthn runs spectest
TimToady m: ::&foo 18:27
camelia rakudo-moar 463865: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/alDUeYFgUi␤Malformed lookup of ::&foo; please use ::('&foo'), ::{'&foo'}, or ::<&foo>␤at /tmp/alDUeYFgUi:1␤------> 3<BOL>7⏏5::&foo␤ expecting any of:␤ term␤»
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dalek ast: 4d56eb4 | FROGGS++ | S17-procasync/basic.t:
replace Proc::Status by Proc
 18:51
jnthn FROGGS: ohnoes! 18:53
t\spec\S32-io\pipe.t (Wstat: 1024 Tests: 11 Failed: 4) Failed tests: 4, 6, 8, 10 Non-zero exit status: 4 Parse errors: Bad plan. You planned 13 tests but ran 11.
FROGGS ó.ò 18:54
jnthn hm, and it hangs when I run it at the command line after test 11, rather than failing
FROGGS and the other failures are potentially about line endings 18:55
though, I'm not sure
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FROGGS ahh no, test 4 is about the exit code 18:56
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FROGGS I'll look into it on Monday 18:56
jnthn FROGGS: gist.github.com/jnthn/285493f9cba44ba7f006
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FROGGS huh 18:57
that probably mean that libuv does the autoquoting wrong? 18:58
jnthn my $sh1 = run($*EXECUTABLE, '-e', 'say join "\n", reverse lines', :in, :out);
maybe so :S
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japhb That's sounds just like what I was afraid of. :-( 18:59
FROGGS $ perl6 -e "run('perl6', '-e','say 42')" 19:01
42
I guess that explodes for you?
which means, it does not quote things containing whitespace
jnthn FROGGS: No explosion for that one 19:02
oh, but
japhb Embedded spaces *and* embedded quotes, perhaps?
jnthn perl6 -e "say run('perl6', '-e','say 42')"
Proc.new(in => IO::Pipe, out => IO::Pipe, err => IO::Pipe, exitcode => -16, pid => Any, signal => 38)
sad exit code is sad
FROGGS true 19:03
japhb Ah, so it just needs the spaces. :-(
FROGGS but anyway
jnthn Dammit.
FROGGS jnthn: I'll investigate
jnthn FROGGS++
japhb Are the pipes readable even with failed exitcode?
(So you can read the error message?)
FROGGS japhb: yes
japhb OK, good.
jaffa4 I have a bug, the compiler just quits silently, no error message.. I know it idid not finish compiling 19:10
What dod you do if that happens?
FROGGS jaffa4: can you paste the output you got? 19:11
jaffa4 no output
no error message
FROGGS but there was output before it just stopped, right?
jaffa4 before?
FROGGS aye
jaffa4 no
FROGGS I'd try to find out what the next step would be, and run that manually (under valgrind or gdb) 19:12
dalek kudo/nom: b197408 | FROGGS++ | src/core/IO/Handle.pm:
fix deprecation begin for pipe()/open(:p)
 19:13
jnthn If you think it's a compiler crash, also try running with --stagestats 19:14
jaffa4 it is a compiler crash because I know there are still some unresolved variables 19:15
tage start : 0.000 then Stage parse :... that it 19:16
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FROGGS jaffa4: what is the command you are running? 19:18
jaffa4 perl6-m.bat --stagestats D:\m\p6\getopt_LONG\lib\Getopt\Long.pm6
FROGGS ahh
jaffa4: is that code in a repository somewhere? 19:20
jaffa4 FROGGS: gist.github.com/jaffa4/18c3e7816ecdb518ecec 19:22
FROGGS jaffa4: I replied with the output I get 19:24
jaffa4 ok I used star which is not sensitive about unit 19:26
if you add missing unit, what do you get? 19:27
FROGGS: 19:33
FROGGS jaffa4: I replied again 19:36
jaffa4 so it is a compiler bug, but current compiler does not have any more 19:37
It just exists in the last Rakudo start
dalek ast: 14607d6 | FROGGS++ | S05-match/capturing-contexts.t:
RT #125345, test (non-)capturing and cursor pos
synbot6 Link: rt.perl.org/rt3/Public/Bug/Display...?id=125345
FROGGS jaffa4: yeah possible... sadly I have no old star to confirm that 19:38
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dalek kudo/nom: 4cfec0c | FROGGS++ | src/Perl6/Actions.nqp:
propagate ignorecase into regex subrules, RT #116256
 19:58
synbot6 Link: rt.perl.org/rt3/Public/Bug/Display...?id=116256
dalek ast: 6ecf415 | FROGGS++ | S05-modifier/ignoremark.t:
add tests for subrules under ignoremark, RT #116256
 19:59
synbot6 Link: rt.perl.org/rt3/Public/Bug/Display...?id=116256
jaffa4 How do I clear configure settings? 20:01
FROGGS make realclean or make clean?
jaffa4 no it uses bad make 20:02
japhb prefers the Aliens option: delete the whole tree and start from scratch ... but then he's seen all the configure/make bugs over the years
FROGGS gnight 20:03
20:03 FROGGS left
japhb (It's why I keep my local clone separate from my build tree) 20:03
o/ FROGGS
TimToady you're current configuration is in config.status 20:06
*your 20:07
Each of you're possessive pronouns should have it's own apostrophe. 20:08
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geekosaur apos'trophe's ar'e f'un? 20:11
jaffa4 kool
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raydiak
.oO( as long as they aren't in you'r Package'Names, cuz that's ugly )
 20:15
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TimToady "aren't" and "that's" arent possessive, so should be spelled "arent" and "thats" :-) 20:18
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ugexe m: say Version.new("1").ACCEPTS(Version.new("v1")); # should these compare to Order::Same? i.e. treat /^v [\. || \d || '*']/ differently 20:23
camelia rakudo-moar 4cfec0: OUTPUT«False␤»
geekosaur (Package'Names? is that perl5? :p ) 20:24
japhb I'm reminded of the apostropocalypse (in Neal Stephenson's novel Reamde, in reference to an actual linguist getting frustrated at a fantasy author's penchant for added apostrophes in every other word in his made-up languages.) 20:27
geekosaur I was roughly channeling that with the "are fun" comment, yes 20:28
s/roughly/loosely/
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jaffa4 make: Interrupt/Exception caught (code = 0xc00000fd, addr = 0x4ff283) 20:28
raydiak geekosaur: yes you can use ' instead of :: in p5; I think it actually started in an earlier version though 20:29
geekosaur yes, that was the joke
perl 5 introdiuced :: as an alternative to '
raydiak ah
geekosaur (' was in use as package separator at least back to perl 3) 20:30
TimToady yes, was poorly borrowed from Ada
raydiak I'm glad to have been spoiled by the better syntaxes of my time :) 20:31
jaffa4 :: is more visible than . . is easier to tyoe
Dont' you agree, TimToady? 20:32
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TimToady well, we do try to avoid confusing those two concepts visually 20:33
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jnthn sleep; should have some hacking time tomorrow, and certainly will in the next week :) o/ 21:13
lizmat good night, jnthn! 21:14
hmmm... at appears HEAD has failures in t/spec/S14-roles/parameterized-type.t and t/spec/S04-blocks-and-statements/temp.t 21:15
dalek kudo/nom: bbe2ffa | lizmat++ | src/Perl6/Grammar.nqp:
Turn a print on STDERR into a worry

Fixes #125495		 21:16
synbot6 Link: rt.perl.org/rt3/Public/Bug/Display...?id=125495
21:18 jaffa4 left
lizmat fwiw, I had run into the print on STDERR and was thinking to myself: WTF ? 21:19
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dalek ast: 1f37c47 | lizmat++ | S06-signature/multi-invocant.t:
Add some Signature.multi-invocant tests
 21:43
kudo/nom: 89ff9b3 | lizmat++ | t/spectest.data:
Add some Signature.multi-invocant tests
 21:44
lizmat m: (sub a(;;$a)).signature.perl.say # seems we don't handle this one correctly (anymore) 21:45
camelia rakudo-moar 4cfec0: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/hkUKiD2XCb␤Missing block␤at /tmp/hkUKiD2XCb:1␤------> 3(sub a(;;$a)7⏏5).signature.perl.say # seems we don't ␤ expecting any of:␤ new name to be defined␤»
lizmat m: (sub a(;;$a) {}).signature.perl.say # seems we don't handle this one correctly (anymore)
camelia rakudo-moar 4cfec0: OUTPUT«:($a)␤»
lizmat expected to see (;;$a) there
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lizmat m: (sub a($b;;$a) {}).signature.perl.say # this seems to work ok 21:45
camelia rakudo-moar 4cfec0: OUTPUT«:($b;; $a)␤»
lizmat too sleepy now, will look at it tomorrow, so good night, #perl6! 21:47
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timotimo "new name to be defined" is also wrong there, isn't it? 21:52
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