»ö« Welcome to Perl 6! | perl6.org/ | evalbot usage: 'p6: say 3;' or rakudo:, std:, or /msg camelia p6: ... | irclog: irc.perl6.org | UTF-8 is our friend!
Set by masak on 12 May 2015.
00:00 pierrot left
_itz_ m: my @s = 1,2,3,4; my $foo = @s[0..1, 2..3].join; warn $foo.perl; 00:04
GLRelia rakudo-moar 7f8a19: OUTPUT«"1 23 4" in block <unit> at /tmp/k4K4FZAEj1:1␤»
camelia rakudo-moar edffe0: OUTPUT«"1234" in block <unit> at /tmp/uwwM3j7RRX:1␤»
TimToady hmm, I thought slice lists flattened 00:16
yoleaux 22 Aug 2015 14:12Z <nine> TimToady: should the single arg rule really extend to Hashes just because they do Iterable? my @a = {:a(1), :b(2)}; gives [:a(1), :b(2)] and the same happens for sub calls. for %hash {...} and %hash.map iterating over the pairs does asolutely make sense, but when passing a hash to a sub or method, one really expects it to stay a hash.
00:16 AlexDani` left
cwDYKARN hmm nudles greencurry flavor, with choccolate, and BBQ-sticks.... thoughts? ^.- 00:16
TimToady .tell nine I don't think the case of initializing an array with a single hash will arise all that often, so I'm willing to leave it as a DIHWIDT for simplicity 00:18
yoleaux TimToady: I'll pass your message to nine.
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lizmat m: say (start 42) == (start 42) 01:14
GLRelia rakudo-moar 7f8a19: OUTPUT«Cannot call Numeric(Promise: ); none of these signatures match:␤ (Mu:U \v: *%_)␤ in block <unit> at /tmp/iKIQTilqUz:1␤␤»
camelia rakudo-moar edffe0: OUTPUT«Cannot call Numeric(Promise: ); none of these signatures match:␤ (Mu:U \v: *%_)␤ in block <unit> at /tmp/158FSYl4qJ:1␤␤»
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lizmat I wonder whether Promises should coerce to .result.Numeric, so that the above *would* DWIM 01:15
m: say (start 42).result == (start 42).result
GLRelia rakudo-moar 7f8a19: OUTPUT«True␤»
camelia rakudo-moar edffe0: OUTPUT«True␤»
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ugexe from-json() gives error 'method ast not found for invocant Str' on glr now when trying to read the ecosystem projects.json 01:34
from-json("projects.json".IO.slurp)
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ugexe m: my $json = q|[{"depends":["a"]}]|; say from-json($json) 01:49
GLRelia rakudo-moar 7f8a19: OUTPUT«Method 'ast' not found for invocant of class 'Array'␤ in block <unit> at /tmp/7BmKUjYQ81:1␤␤»
camelia rakudo-moar edffe0: OUTPUT«depends => a␤»
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dalek kudo/nom: ac34880 | lizmat++ | src/core/Promise.pm:
Make == eq eqv DWIM on Promises

With the emphasis on "I" :-) Inspired by the first Promises slide in
  jnthn++ last presentation:
   jnthn.net/papers/2015-yapcasia-concurrency.pdf
It occurred to me that the whole slide could be reduced to:
   sub MAIN($file1, $file2) {
   say (start from-json(slurp($file1)) eqv (start from-json(slurp($file2)))
   ?? 'Files contain identical JSON'
   !! 'Files contain different JSON';
   }
with these changes.		 01:52
ugexe m: say from-json(q|{"a": 1}|); say from-json(q|[{"a": 1}]|); 02:08
camelia rakudo-moar edffe0: OUTPUT«a => 1␤a => 1␤»
GLRelia rakudo-moar 7f8a19: OUTPUT«a => 1␤Method 'ast' not found for invocant of class 'Int'␤ in block <unit> at /tmp/3CyHckx9GH:1␤␤»
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dalek ast/glr: d507a7d | (David Warring [email@hidden.address] | integration/advent2012-day1 (2 files):
further GLR mods for 2012 advent days 13 & 14
 04:20
04:27 CailCorishev is now known as Cail
dalek kudo/glr: a959024 | moritz++ | src/core/JSON/Pretty.pm:
Fix from-json(q|[{"a": 1}]|)
 04:32
rangerprice Goodbye, a go to sleep 04:44
i go*
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dalek ast/glr: ee49119 | skids++ | S (7 files):
GLR/non-fatal adjustments to some tests.

GLRify parts of tests which are not relevant to tested feature. In some cases the test still fails, but now for right reasons. Place code inside try statements which was causing whole-file aborts. Add an XXX GLR note to write specific tests for a known issue.		 04:47
moritz m: multi f($x) { uc $x }; say <a b c>.map(&f)' │ 04:55
GLRelia rakudo-moar a95902: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/gBSB0r4N92␤Two terms in a row␤at /tmp/gBSB0r4N92:1␤------> 3lti f($x) { uc $x }; say <a b c>.map(&f)7⏏5' │␤ expecting any of:␤ infix␤ infix stopper␤ postfix␤ …»
camelia rakudo-moar ac3488: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/FHQDFdQfw2␤Two terms in a row␤at /tmp/FHQDFdQfw2:1␤------> 3lti f($x) { uc $x }; say <a b c>.map(&f)7⏏5' │␤ expecting any of:␤ infix␤ infix stopper␤ postfix␤ …»
moritz m: multi f($x) { uc $x }; say <a b c>.map(&f)'
GLRelia rakudo-moar a95902: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/8a3iH3J1Vc␤Two terms in a row␤at /tmp/8a3iH3J1Vc:1␤------> 3lti f($x) { uc $x }; say <a b c>.map(&f)7⏏5'␤ expecting any of:␤ infix␤ infix stopper␤ postfix␤ s…»
camelia rakudo-moar ac3488: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/Dk2D9zsMAE␤Two terms in a row␤at /tmp/Dk2D9zsMAE:1␤------> 3lti f($x) { uc $x }; say <a b c>.map(&f)7⏏5'␤ expecting any of:␤ infix␤ infix stopper␤ postfix␤ s…»
moritz m: multi f($x) { uc $x }; say <a b c>.map(&f)
GLRelia rakudo-moar a95902: OUTPUT«Cannot call f(...); none of these signatures match:␤ ($x)␤ in block <unit> at /tmp/XfwB0_61hS:1␤␤»
camelia rakudo-moar ac3488: OUTPUT«A B C␤»
JimmyZ post GLR? so, we must write [[]] as [[],]? 05:00
dalek kudo/glr: 212d8f4 | moritz++ | src/core/Any-iterable-methods.pm:
map: make it work for multis

applies that same heuristic as nom:
  $count = 1 if $count == Inf || $count == 0;		 05:01
skids moritz: That sould do the trick. I wonder if any of the other listy functions are n-ary but not just calling .map. 05:03
JimmyZ: seems to be the case. 05:05
ShimmerFairy JimmyZ: as of now, yes (think of Parcels in pre-GLR, where (1,) made a one-elem Parcel), but I haven't heard from jnthn or anyone if that's the intention 05:08
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JimmyZ I dont know why [[]] is OK pre-GRL, but know has to be [[],] 05:11
*now
skids Both for technical reasons, and because the theory is that the single-item-rule will move some ugliness away from common cases to less common cases. 05:12
ShimmerFairy skids: do you know if single-arg is supposed to be applied recursively? (that is, [[[...]]] -> [[...]] -> [...] -> ...) 05:14
skids yes, as far as I can tell.
JimmyZ I think it is no, since we want less flatten 05:15
skids I'm pretty sure it is yes -- that is not considered "flattenning" but more like item collapse. 05:16
flattenning is when inner parens are removed from ((),())-like constructs.
And $ protects against flattenning, but not against collapse. 05:17
The only thing that protects against collapse is a listy thing made by a comma (and if you do not supply a brace type for that, () is implied) 05:18
ShimmerFairy I can kinda see the rationale for recursive single-arg; single-arg basically goes for the first thing that can definitely be a list, going into a 1-elem list when there's a chance you didn't mean for it to be wrapped in a list 05:21
skids right and anything inside braces itself is an ergument, to the braces.
*argument
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ShimmerFairy skids: so if I have this right, the thinking is that [[1,2],[3,4]] is clearly an array of arrays, while [[1,2]] could be a one-elem aoa _or_ just one array that's in an extra [] by quirk of execution. Single-arg prefers to think the extra [] is a quirk in that case, if I got it right. 05:24
I imagine that problem could more likely come up with a 1-elem (stuff), since () is used both for Lists and for grouping parts of expressions. 05:25
skids ShimmerFairy: I think on one level that is considered a possible advantage, but its one candidate of a multi-reason :-) 05:28
ShimmerFairy I bet recursive one-arg would probably be best demo'd with something like @a = (gen-a-List()) ; is that surrounding pair of () meant to group the call (perhaps it used to be needed in that statement), or is it meant to make a 1-elem List? Perl 6 thinks you probably didn't mean an outer List there. 05:30
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skids greps perl6-all-modules for [[[^[]*]] -- 100 lines almost all of which are not perl6 syntax, in test files, [something[[something]something]], or in rx. 05:32
ShimmerFairy _another_ way to phrase it would be that P6 assumes you were using list brackets just for grouping purposes unless it's got a literal list inside :P 05:33
m: say [5 + 6] * 2 # I wonder... 05:34
GLRelia rakudo-moar 212d8f: OUTPUT«2␤»
camelia rakudo-moar ac3488: OUTPUT«2␤»
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jdv79 m: say .uniname for "(", ")", "[", "]", "\{", "}" 05:45
GLRelia rakudo-moar 212d8f: OUTPUT«LEFT PARENTHESIS␤RIGHT PARENTHESIS␤LEFT SQUARE BRACKET␤RIGHT SQUARE BRACKET␤LEFT CURLY BRACKET␤RIGHT CURLY BRACKET␤»
camelia rakudo-moar ac3488: OUTPUT«LEFT PARENTHESIS␤RIGHT PARENTHESIS␤LEFT SQUARE BRACKET␤RIGHT SQUARE BRACKET␤LEFT CURLY BRACKET␤RIGHT CURLY BRACKET␤»
jdv79 do you guys mean parenthesis when you say list bracket or brace? 05:46
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ShimmerFairy yeah, I'm using "bracket" in the general sense unless I specify "square bracket" 05:51
jdv79 wonder why they aren't just called parenthesis, bracket, and brace? guess unicode doesn't believe is terseness. 05:53
ShimmerFairy m: say "<".uniname 05:56
GLRelia rakudo-moar 212d8f: OUTPUT«LESS-THAN SIGN␤»
camelia rakudo-moar ac3488: OUTPUT«LESS-THAN SIGN␤»
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ShimmerFairy m: say "〈".uniname 05:58
GLRelia rakudo-moar 212d8f: OUTPUT«LEFT ANGLE BRACKET␤»
camelia rakudo-moar ac3488: OUTPUT«LEFT ANGLE BRACKET␤»
ShimmerFairy jdv79: there are lots of BRACKETs in unicode, it's just by chance that () can be called parens and that {} can be called braces, and that most programmers mean [] when they say "brackets" :) 05:59
jdv79 ^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^Hoh right 06:01
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dalek ast/glr: 000d49b | jdv79++ | S04-statements/if.t:
Un-todos for if return - went from Empty to () post-glr. Fixes RT #124577.
 06:26
synbot6 Link: rt.perl.org/rt3/Public/Bug/Display...?id=124577
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moritz m: my @a = 1, 2, 3; @a»++ 06:29
GLRelia ( no output )
camelia ( no output )
moritz m: my @a = 1, 2, 3; @a»++; say @a
GLRelia rakudo-moar 212d8f: OUTPUT«1 2 3␤»
camelia rakudo-moar ac3488: OUTPUT«2 3 4␤»
moritz nine: ^^ another hyper thingy you might want to investigate
nine: makes S02-lexical-conventions/unspace.t fail 06:30
skids Also has discrete tests in S03-metaops/hyper.t already, good. 06:33
moritz will be travelling most of the day, without Rakudo access :/ 06:42
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nine .tell TimToady @a = %h is a mere nuisance. This is the real issue: sub foo(*@a) { say @a.perl }; foo({:a(1), :b(2)}); prints: [:a(1), :b(2)]. This is hurting in real code, e.g. Inline::Perl5. 07:17
yoleaux 00:18Z <TimToady> nine: I don't think the case of initializing an array with a single hash will arise all that often, so I'm willing to leave it as a DIHWIDT for simplicity
nine: I'll pass your message to TimToady.
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ShimmerFairy doesn't **@a prevent flattening? 07:19
laben hello p6'ers
ShimmerFairy m: sub foo(**@a) { say @a.perl }; foo({a=>1, b=>2}) 07:21
GLRelia rakudo-moar 212d8f: OUTPUT«[${:a(1), :b(2)}]␤»
camelia rakudo-moar ac3488: OUTPUT«(:a(1), :b(2))␤»
ShimmerFairy nine: ^ that would work, if {} ends up still flattening because it's Iterable
laben m: sub foo(**%a) { %a }; dd foo({ 'a' => 1, 'b' => 2}) 07:23
GLRelia rakudo-moar 212d8f: OUTPUT«% = {:a(1), :b(2)}␤»
camelia rakudo-moar ac3488: OUTPUT«% = {:a(1), :b(2)}<>␤»
laben m: sub foo(*%a) { %a }; dd foo({ 'a' => 1, 'b' => 2})
GLRelia rakudo-moar 212d8f: OUTPUT«Too many positionals passed; expected 0 arguments but got 1␤ in sub foo at /tmp/HKxiH2wT3q:1␤ in block <unit> at /tmp/HKxiH2wT3q:1␤␤»
camelia rakudo-moar ac3488: OUTPUT«Too many positionals passed; expected 0 arguments but got 1␤ in sub foo at /tmp/RZ2qRG0x3z:1␤ in block <unit> at /tmp/RZ2qRG0x3z:1␤␤»
moritz travel&
laben wait, why doesnt *% work there? 07:24
ShimmerFairy *% is for named arguments, not positionals 07:25
laben m: sub foo(*%a) { %a }; dd foo('a' => 1, 'b' => 2)
GLRelia rakudo-moar 212d8f: OUTPUT«Too many positionals passed; expected 0 arguments but got 2␤ in sub foo at /tmp/qfSlzgGbx_:1␤ in block <unit> at /tmp/qfSlzgGbx_:1␤␤»
camelia rakudo-moar ac3488: OUTPUT«Too many positionals passed; expected 0 arguments but got 2␤ in sub foo at /tmp/kzmWHleGOd:1␤ in block <unit> at /tmp/kzmWHleGOd:1␤␤»
laben m: sub foo(*%a) { %a }; dd foo(:a(1), :b(2)) 07:26
GLRelia rakudo-moar 212d8f: OUTPUT«{:a(1), :b(2)}␤»
camelia rakudo-moar ac3488: OUTPUT«{:a(1), :b(2)}<>␤»
masak morning, #perl6 07:28
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skids just in time for me to say goodnight, masak :-) 07:32
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masak goodnight, skids :) 07:35
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ShimmerFairy masak: I was wondering, could a macro like macro startup { quasi { my $*ABC; my @*DEF; } } ever be used to 'install' variables in a certain location? The idea is that a role or module or something could install the appropriate contextuals (in this example) for the user. (e.g. a role providing extra functions for a grammar could provide <.startup> instead of requiring the user to do :my $*ABC; etc.) 07:37
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masak it's a good question. 07:39
let's pretend you asked it with ordinary lexicals instead of contextuals; it's easier :)
nine ShimmerFairy: oh, yes, **@a could work for me. Still I'd say it's highly surprising to silently get a hash converted to an array
ShimmerFairy nine: sure, but in case it doesn't get changed that workaround wouldn't be too annoying (just an extra *) :) 07:40
masak the answer is something like "yes, you can install things. but if you do it by name, you have to accept the consequences of being unhygienic."
nine Amazing work people! While I slept we went down to 132 :)
ShimmerFairy masak: I specifically ran into this by way of writing my own "role STD" for Perl 6 grammars, that is the worry/sorry/panic stuff. It'd be nice if the person doing my role didn't need to declare @*WORRIES and so on. 07:41
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ShimmerFairy of course, the role could (or even should?) use role attributes instead of dynamics, but for now I'm fine with just having a kinda-copy of STD's stuff since it's not the main project I'm working on :) 07:42
masak ShimmerFairy: if the quasi leaves its own block behind in the mainline (as it currently does), then contextuals are going to be a bit meaningless, because they'll be scoped to that block. 07:43
nine m: my @a = 1, 2, 3; @a.map(*++); say @a; 07:44
GLRelia rakudo-moar 212d8f: OUTPUT«2 3 4␤»
camelia rakudo-moar ac3488: OUTPUT«2 3 4␤»
nine m: my @a = 1, 2, 3; @a.map({$_++}); say @a;
GLRelia rakudo-moar 212d8f: OUTPUT«2 3 4␤»
camelia rakudo-moar ac3488: OUTPUT«2 3 4␤»
nine m: my @a = 1, 2, 3; @a.map(++*); say @a;
GLRelia rakudo-moar 212d8f: OUTPUT«2 3 4␤»
camelia rakudo-moar ac3488: OUTPUT«2 3 4␤»
ShimmerFairy masak: that's specifically why I tried seeing if macros could do it, since I know a more typical sub/method won't cut it :)
masak ShimmerFairy: I'm not 100% clear yet how we'll do unhygiene. the answer to your question will be part of figuring that out. 07:46
ShimmerFairy masak: yeah, it's admittedly not a very common case. I wonder how often there will be extra roles/classes for a grammar+actions setup that would be best served with grammar-level contextuals anyhow :P 07:48
masak we'll see :)
you ought to be able to do unconventional stuff with macros. that's the idea.
ShimmerFairy masak: in a way, my example is asking for specific globals in the user's code, and then also offering a macro that declares them for the user :P 07:49
masak aye 07:51
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masak I know of CPAN modules for `slurp`, but is there one for `spurt`? 08:15
(Perl 5 modules, that is.) 08:16
nine masak: File::Slurp has a write_file function
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laben blogs.perl.org/users/leon_timmerman...wrong.html 08:16
nine its slurp may be spelled read_file (which is what I use)
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masak oki 08:18
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nine laben: thanks! I immediately forwarded this to my team 08:19
laben you should thank leont++
labster "If your needs are average (which is the case for most people), I'd recommend Path::Tiny." heh.
nine leont++ # indeed!
leont :-)
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laben i found myself satisfied with leont's File::Sluper, but IO::All is amazing when needed 08:20
dalek kudo/glr: 93ade89 | (Stefan Seifert)++ | src/core/metaops.pm:
Fix my @a = 1, 2, 3; @a>>++; say @a;

We need to make unary hyper operators eager. Otherwise code with side effects
  (like increment or decrement operators) may never actually execute if the
resulting List is not further processed.
Thanks to moritz++ for golfing this bug!		 08:23
nine 130/1047 spec test files failing
vendethiel
.oO( nine++ will overflow at this rate )
 08:24
nine Well, that's probably my whole contribution for the day. Since I didn't actually go flying yesterday, I really have to take my chance today. May be the last for this year :/ 08:25
laben nine: good work! Happy flying and be safe :)
nine laben: thanks :)
labster m: Date.new('15555-05-05').say 08:26
GLRelia rakudo-moar 212d8f: OUTPUT«Invalid Date string '15555-05-05'; use yyyy-mm-dd instead␤ in block <unit> at /tmp/7VlBQxJ4D5:1␤␤»
camelia rakudo-moar ac3488: OUTPUT«Invalid Date string '15555-05-05'; use yyyy-mm-dd instead␤ in block <unit> at /tmp/ynwvif7aJK:1␤␤»
labster m: Date.new('5555-05-05').later(years => 10000).say
GLRelia rakudo-moar 212d8f: OUTPUT«15555-05-05␤»
camelia rakudo-moar ac3488: OUTPUT«15555-05-05␤»
labster I'm somewhat unimpressed with this. 08:27
nine laben: may be, but let's face it: this will catch a whole lot of bugs while very few people are going to need to input dates 10000 years hence 08:28
laben ?
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laben from wiki page of ISO 8601: To represent years before 0000 or after 9999, the standard also permits the expansion of the year representation but only by prior agreement between the sender and the receiver. 08:29
vendethiel
.oO( Perl 6 received your date and isn't happy with it )
nine Well the receiver doesn't agree in this case :)
Because in most cases, such dates are the results of bugs
laben labster: i dont think it would be a problem to reject > 9999 years in the constructor, given that there is still a way to construct them afterwards 08:30
nine laben: oh, sorry for the confusion, tab completion error. I meant labster :) 08:31
laben maybe we could say that the error is LTA and it could make a reference to ISO 8601 in that case
ShimmerFairy Well, the error tells you exactly how to fix the problem (they 'yyyy-mm-dd' part) :)
laben nine: no problem :) 08:32
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laben ShimmerFairy: yes but we could say why it is invalid 08:32
labster m: Date.new(15555, 5, 5).say 08:33
GLRelia rakudo-moar 93ade8: OUTPUT«15555-05-05␤»
camelia rakudo-moar ac3488: OUTPUT«15555-05-05␤»
laben O.o could it be there is no checking... oh well
labster I think it's the output the bothers me more than the input.
laben you mean you would like formatted output by default? 08:34
labster The input there isn't an ISO 8601 string, so it should be valid (depending on if we have a day of leap seconds or not by then)
ShimmerFairy labster: ? the last example you ran wasn't an ISO 8601 string and was gladly accepted
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labster m: Date.new(15555, 5, 5).print 08:35
GLRelia rakudo-moar 93ade8: OUTPUT«15555-05-05»
camelia rakudo-moar ac3488: OUTPUT«15555-05-05»
labster Well, the output looks 8601, but isn't necessarily.
ShimmerFairy the output still counts under 8601, under the "permits expansion of the year representation" 08:37
labster No it doesn't. No sign.
ShimmerFairy What sign?
labster Exactly!
An expanded year representation [±YYYYY] must ... be prefixed with a + or − sign 08:38
ShimmerFairy Ah, so the output should be a bit better in that regard. Though by that rule your string-input with the expanded year was rightfully unaccepted :) 08:39
laben still, it's quite a nuisance that i cannot freely read that standard. i almost prefer IETF RFC 3339 just for that reason 08:47
ShimmerFairy laben: agreed, it's one of my biggest gripes with certain standards bodies. Haven't heard of 3339 though, I'll check it out. 08:53
labster That is the nice thing about standards, so many to choose from.
nine m: my @a = (1, 2, 3); my @b = map { hash("v" => $_, "d" => $_ * 2) }, @a; say @b.perl; 08:54
GLRelia rakudo-moar 93ade8: OUTPUT«[${:d(2), :v(1)}, ${:d(4), :v(2)}, ${:d(6), :v(3)}]␤»
camelia rakudo-moar ac3488: OUTPUT«[:d(2), :v(1), :d(4), :v(2), :d(6), :v(3)]<>␤»
laben it's basically the equivalent but from IETF and free to read
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nine m: my @a = (1, 2, 3); my @b = map { {"v" => $_, "d" => $_ * 2} }, @a; say @b.perl; 08:55
GLRelia rakudo-moar 93ade8: OUTPUT«[$(:v(1), :d(2)), $(:v(2), :d(4)), $(:v(3), :d(6))]␤»
camelia rakudo-moar ac3488: OUTPUT«[:v(1), :d(2), :v(2), :d(4), :v(3), :d(6)]<>␤»
ShimmerFairy laben: yeah, I'll look over RFC 3339 and might consider having Perl 6 officially follow that instead of ISO 8601, on the basis of not letting private standards get precedence :P 08:56
laben m: my @a = (1, 2, 3); my @b = map { %("v" => $_, "d" => $_ * 2) }, @a; say @b.perl;
camelia rakudo-moar ac3488: OUTPUT«[:d(2), :v(1), :d(4), :v(2), :d(6), :v(3)]<>␤»
GLRelia rakudo-moar 93ade8: OUTPUT«[${:d(2), :v(1)}, ${:d(4), :v(2)}, ${:d(6), :v(3)}]␤»
ShimmerFairy
.oO(If a standards body produces a standard, but no-one's allowed to view it, does it make a standard?)
laben ShimmerFairy: you're allowed, but need to pay
ShimmerFairy s/view/freely view/ would've been clearer :) 08:57
labster I'm not sure why ISO 8601 isn't on the Pirate Bay, everything is supposed to be there :P
ShimmerFairy (but would've messed with the meter of the original saying)
nine For many ISO standards one can find drafts online for free. Helped me tremendously when I wrote my master's thesis :)
ShimmerFairy labster: I recall poking around and finding the floating point standard somewhere once :) 08:58
laben whatevs is needed to get out of the annoying imperial mm/dd/yyyy date format
labster ah yes, we American imperialists want to take over your dates. 08:59
ShimmerFairy I use 23 August 2015 myself :)
laben O.o is it not called imperial while the other is metric?
ShimmerFairy laben: yes, the opposite of the metric system is imperial, but datetime formats don't count for that :) 09:00
Just "US" and "European" and so on :)
laben ShimmerFairy: oh, ok. i thought it was somehow linked to the inch/pound system 09:01
i did not mean to offend anyone, forgive me
ShimmerFairy nah, it's just formatting when it comes to datetimes :)
labster I give laben an inch, and laben takes the whole meter stick. 09:03
laben o.o that came out a bit... wrong 09:04
labster Anyway, according to RFC 3339, one can use lowercase t and z in ISO 8601. Interesting, didn't know that, and now apparently a bug we have. 09:05
jdv79 theres no need for those variances 09:07
is T and Z a hardship?
TimToady ugly and visually hard to spot 09:08
yoleaux 07:17Z <nine> TimToady: @a = %h is a mere nuisance. This is the real issue: sub foo(*@a) { say @a.perl }; foo({:a(1), :b(2)}); prints: [:a(1), :b(2)]. This is hurting in real code, e.g. Inline::Perl5.
labster didn't write the standard.
TimToady t would help since it's a shorter letter
jdv79 i find uppercase more visually attention grabbing since morst text is not butok 09:10
*most
09:12 telex left 09:14 telex joined
labster Anyway, I'm starting to think that Perl 6 should just make a "prior agreement" with the programmer to accept >4 digit dates and represent everything on the proleptic Gregorian calendar, because it makes no sense to be liberal in what we emit and conservative in what we accept. (Do we have a EULA?) 09:14
with a sign required in that case 09:15
ShimmerFairy I can see why the RFC would allow for lowercase letters, since they would be easier to see amongst the "uppercase" digits we use :) 09:17
jdv79 sure. but aren't most date acceptors in the world using 8601 09:18
if we emit non-8601 by default that might cause unfortunate issues 09:19
ShimmerFairy I have a feeling most things accept varying subsets of 8601 by chance, but I'm not sure the percentage of things that specifically set out for 8601 :)
(we don't even accept Duration strings, IIRC)
jdv79 i have written a few date handlers and they only accept T and Z
labster jdv79: Then you have only implemented a subset of ISO 8601. 09:20
masak please submit a rakudobug about t and z 09:23
labster Well, there's a reasonable solution on output, though. Just have a method that checks that the date can produce strict 8601 values (4 digit year, non-fractional time zones), maybe .as-iso-8601, where print and gist are more permissive. 09:24
09:24 araujo left
ShimmerFairy Note that you can give DateTime your own date formatter if needed :) 09:24
labster masak: will do. 09:25
jdv79 oh oww 09:26
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jdv79 *wow 09:26
09:26 araujo left 09:27 araujo joined
jdv79 i like how the lowercase t and z are not indicated on the wikipedia page or the ISO8601 derived ABNF in rfc3339 09:27
jdv79 also abhors non-free standards
ShimmerFairy I know it's a minor thing, but I think I'd prefer if Perl 6's default was a standard anyone can read (RFC 3339) instead of one you have to pay for or hope wikipedia's got it right (ISO 8601) 09:28
jdv79 yeah yeah, that's fine
i have very little love for 8601 in general. its too mushy and varied and doesn't cover some cases well. 09:29
kinda like oauth 2. too many cooks in the kitchen; some lacking the wisdom to be allowed in the kitchen 09:30
laben you consider it minor just because date-time parsing is not an usual use-case. if you had the same situation in parsing a file or something like that, an army of pitchforks would be out 09:31
ShimmerFairy taking a quick peek at the ABNF, I still say BNF syntax is ugly and hard to read, and that P6 regexes and grammars are much better :P
labster ShimmerFairy: I'm not opposed to RFC 3339, I just would like to support dates outside of 0000 .. 9999 09:32
vendethiel jnthn: isn't there a race condition in jnthn.net/papers/2015-yapcasia-concurrency.pdf slide 59 for the "unless"?
ShimmerFairy sure, I don't see why not (since you can pass years larger/smaller than that to the non-string-parsing versions)
jdv79: note though that the ABNF in the RFC is specifically an attempt to create a grammar for 8601, not necessarily whatever extensions the RFC provides (e.g. 't' and 'z') :) 09:33
labster Actually it's the grammar providing the extensions. 09:34
jdv79 huh 09:35
"Appendix A contains an attempt to translate the complete syntax of ISO 8601 into ABNF"
i guess "attempt" gives a hint 09:36
though complete is a rather specific word:)
vendethiel .ask jnthn isn't there a race condition in jnthn.net/papers/2015-yapcasia-concurrency.pdf slide 59 for the "unless"?
yoleaux vendethiel: I'll pass your message to jnthn.
jdv79 haha
09:36 leont left
jdv79 lame all around 09:36
ShimmerFairy jdv79: actually, it appears that ABNF grammars tend to prefer case insensitivity, so just imagine :i adverbs on all the rules :P 09:37
09:40 cognominal joined
jdv79 oh. look at that. that explains a few things i've noticed with them. 09:41
jdv79 should read the whole standard 09:42
09:43 diana_olhovik_ joined
ShimmerFairy me too, then I'll be able to comment more effectively on whether we should use it :) 09:43
laben how do we differentiate lazy-but-finite and lazy-and-infinite in Seq/List/Array etc?
jdv79 that's an unfortunate aspect though. when i see "asdf" in a doc i think "asdf" not "[aA][sS][dD][fF]" 09:44
ShimmerFairy There's a value in making you specify :i :)
jdv79 laben: what does that even mean? 09:45
laben jdv79: .map on a finite list produces a Seq, which is lazy but will be finite anyway
ShimmerFairy $file.lines() vs. 1..* , for example
laben jdv79: instead .map on a infinite list produces a Seq but it will be infinite 09:46
jdv79 what i meant to ask was why is that distinction necessary. sorry.
09:47 cognominal left
laben it is IMO for hypers which are eager -> cannot work well with infinites but still do work on lazy-finite 09:47
being eager, they pull everything, which is too much if Inf, but not too much if finite, wheter lazy or not 09:48
09:49 bin_005 left 09:50 Begi joined
labster ok, good night everyone 09:51
Begi Is the HTTP::Client module doesn't support the https protocol ? What can I use ? 09:53
laben Begi: did you try LWP::Simple? 09:54
Begi laben : not yet, I'll take a look
09:54 domidumont joined
jdv79 HTTP::UserAgent may work 09:55
install IO::Socket::SSL too though 09:56
09:57 bin_005 joined 09:58 cognominal joined 09:59 domidumont left
Begi jdv79: currently , it works with Lwp :: Simple 10:02
jdv79 nice
10:04 xinming left 10:05 xinming joined 10:27 salva joined 10:29 Begi left 10:37 bin_005 left
jdv79 m: my @a = 1, (if 0 {2}), 3;@a.perl.say; # seems legit on glr 10:37
GLRelia rakudo-moar 93ade8: OUTPUT«[1, 3]␤»
camelia rakudo-moar ac3488: OUTPUT«[1, 3]<>␤»
jdv79 m: my @a = 1, (0 ?? 2 !! ()), 3;@a.perl.say; # what now? 10:38
GLRelia rakudo-moar 93ade8: OUTPUT«[1, $(), 3]␤»
camelia rakudo-moar ac3488: OUTPUT«[1, 3]<>␤»
jdv79 shouldn't that be the same as the if example?
ShimmerFairy nope, you returned an empty List in the second one 10:40
jdv79 so what is if returning then? 10:41
ShimmerFairy m: say (if 0 {2}).perl 10:42
GLRelia rakudo-moar 93ade8: OUTPUT«()␤»
camelia rakudo-moar ac3488: OUTPUT«Empty␤»
10:42 diana_olhovik_ left
laben m: (if 0 {2}).WHAT.say 10:42
camelia rakudo-moar ac3488: OUTPUT«Empty␤»
GLRelia rakudo-moar 93ade8: OUTPUT«(Slip)␤»
jdv79 is the () from the if or the visible () there?
ah 10:43
laben m: (do if 0 {2}).WHAT.say
GLRelia rakudo-moar 93ade8: OUTPUT«(Slip)␤»
camelia rakudo-moar ac3488: OUTPUT«Empty␤»
ShimmerFairy m: say (0 ?? 2 !! ()).WHAT 10:44
GLRelia rakudo-moar 93ade8: OUTPUT«(List)␤»
camelia rakudo-moar ac3488: OUTPUT«(Parcel)␤»
ShimmerFairy Slip could use a better .gist methinks :)
laben m: say (0 ?? 2).WHAT
GLRelia rakudo-moar 93ade8: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/h8tux4t3Z7␤Unexpected closing bracket␤at /tmp/h8tux4t3Z7:1␤------> 3say (0 ?? 27⏏5).WHAT␤»
camelia rakudo-moar ac3488: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/1YKCr1pGzE␤Unexpected closing bracket␤at /tmp/1YKCr1pGzE:1␤------> 3say (0 ?? 27⏏5).WHAT␤»
jdv79 so those are correct? if so i'll just fix up the relevant test files.
laben dumb me, that's the ternary op
jdv79 seems close enough
laben pre-glr the empty list got flattened away, now it doesnt 10:45
m: say (0 ?? 2 !! slip()).WHAT
GLRelia rakudo-moar 93ade8: OUTPUT«(Slip)␤»
camelia rakudo-moar ac3488: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/rDpVj6hO7n␤Undeclared routine:␤ slip used at line 1. Did you mean 'flip'?␤␤»
ShimmerFairy jdv79: for the ternary, you should write (0 ?? 2 !! ().Slip) (or |() ) to get the same behavior 10:46
laben m: my @a = 1, (0 ?? 2 !! slip()), 3;@a.perl.say; # what now?
jdv79 cool
GLRelia rakudo-moar 93ade8: OUTPUT«[1, 3]␤»
camelia rakudo-moar ac3488: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/La8dmXeYgk␤Undeclared routine:␤ slip used at line 1. Did you mean 'flip'?␤␤»
dalek ast/glr: 5b958fe | jdv79++ | S04-statement-modifiers/if.t:
Adjust for glr by returning slip() instead of ().
 10:54
jdv79 ugh, pause is a rabbithole. i was hoping to catch a break. seems it'll be a slog. 10:55
but lunch&
vendethiel jnthn++ # nice talk 11:11
11:19 virtualsue left 11:25 brrt joined 11:32 BenGoldberg joined 11:33 [Sno] left
brrt yes, jnthn++ for an awesome and inspiring talk 11:33
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masak vendethiel, brrt: waitwait, neither of you are in YAPC::Asia. is there a video somewhere? 12:14
brrt slides 12:15
not sure if a video is online
but the slides themselves are quite isnpiring :-)
in the sense of 'wait, perl6 is *cool*'
masak jnthn.net/papers/2015-yapcasia-concurrency.pdf ? 12:16
brrt aye
masak "You get one goto a month!" :P 12:17
brrt we use them sparingly 12:18
actually, i get as many gotos as i like, but my case is special 12:19
and they're generated goto's, not hand-written
masak can you `start` something in one thread and `await` it in another? 12:20
brrt: in a way, `if`s and `while`s are also generated `goto`s. 12:21
brrt masak: i think you can
yeah, of course. it's just i'm doing the generating and seeing them in action 12:22
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liztormato m: say ( 0 ?? 42 !! |() ).WHAT 12:27
GLRelia rakudo-moar 93ade8: OUTPUT«(Slip)␤»
camelia rakudo-moar ac3488: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/5dkdQwboQr␤Arg-flattening | is only valid in an argument list␤at /tmp/5dkdQwboQr:1␤------> 3say ( 0 ?? 42 !! |7⏏5() ).WHAT␤»
liztormato 1m: say ( 0 ?? 42 !! |() ).perl 12:28
1m: say ( 0 ?? 42 !! |() ).perl 12:29
ShimmerFairy m: say "that you're both still alive" 12:30
GLRelia rakudo-moar 93ade8: OUTPUT«that you're both still alive␤»
camelia rakudo-moar ac3488: OUTPUT«that you're both still alive␤»
ShimmerFairy weird
laben m: say (0?? 42 !! slip()).perl 12:31
GLRelia rakudo-moar 93ade8: OUTPUT«()␤»
camelia rakudo-moar ac3488: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/PBtQO5AZQI␤Undeclared routine:␤ slip used at line 1. Did you mean 'flip'?␤␤»
laben m: say (0?? 42 !! |()).perl
GLRelia rakudo-moar 93ade8: OUTPUT«()␤»
camelia rakudo-moar ac3488: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/CsgClx8c12␤Arg-flattening | is only valid in an argument list␤at /tmp/CsgClx8c12:1␤------> 3say (0?? 42 !! |7⏏5()).perl␤»
vendethiel masak: I'm sure you didn't mean me there ;-) 12:32
liztormato masak: I have shot a video but it's currently HD and 5G
vendethiel masak: actually I misread. Well, I just found it in the clog (like you did)
brrt liztormato: if you can upload it somewhere, there's probably a volunteer ready to transcode it 12:33
liztormato Need to post process to something downloadable
brrt ffmpeg? :-)
liztormato Yeah.
Never used the ffmpeg CLI before, but I guess I can find out about arguments online 12:34
ShimmerFairy Interesting, I've only ever used ffmpeg on commandline :) 12:35
brrt i'm quite familiar with the ffmpeg command line 12:36
if you have it installed i can guide you through
masak liztormato: 's ok. I'm currently enjoying the slides. :)
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vendethiel ShimmerFairy: you never used VLC? :P 12:39
liztormato Should be able to do it in 36 hours or so 12:40
laben mpv for the win
ShimmerFairy vendethiel: when I say 'ffmpeg', I'm specifically referring to the converter, not ffplay or whatever uses FFMPEG to _play_ things :)
vendethiel *g*
masak how implemented is `whenever`? 12:41
m: supply { whenever {} }
camelia rakudo-moar ac3488: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5===␤Expression needs parens to avoid gobbling block␤at /tmp/uvg0IRJUMx:1␤------> 3supply { whenever {}7⏏5 }␤Missing block (apparently taken by expression)␤at /tmp/uvg0IRJUMx:1␤------> 3supply { whenever {} 7⏏5}␤␤»
GLRelia rakudo-moar 93ade8: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/yk37Wb0mBo␤Undeclared routines:␤ supply used at line 1␤ whenever used at line 1␤␤»
masak aha. thought I had missed something big there :)
jnthn doesn't show NYI stuff all that often, so I was willing to assume it had been implemented already :) 12:42
BenGoldberg m: (|()).perl.say
GLRelia rakudo-moar 93ade8: OUTPUT«()␤»
camelia rakudo-moar ac3488: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/KI_B68xy1D␤Arg-flattening | is only valid in an argument list␤at /tmp/KI_B68xy1D:1␤------> 3(|7⏏5()).perl.say␤»
ShimmerFairy masak: if a concurrency talk wasn't out-of-order with the implementation, I'
d have some serious questions :P
masak "Passengers checking in for a flight at the same time must not be able to choose the same seat!" # jnthn and I have joked about trying this many times, but never really got around to it 12:43
ShimmerFairy: you know it's not *mandated* for a talk to confuse use and mention, right? :P
jnthn++ # jnthn.net/papers/2015-yapcasia-concurrency.pdf 12:45
liztormato masak: whenever lives in nom afaik. . .race lives in glr 12:49
ShimmerFairy m: use nqp; my @a := nqp::list()
GLRelia rakudo-moar 93ade8: OUTPUT«Type check failed in binding; expected 'Positional' but got 'List'␤ in block <unit> at /tmp/6i_tBE3ilw:1␤␤»
camelia rakudo-moar ac3488: OUTPUT«Type check failed in binding; expected 'Positional' but got 'Parcel'␤ in block <unit> at /tmp/gWryi2ag_v:1␤␤»
ShimmerFairy m: use nqp; my token T { :my @a := nqp::list(); }
GLRelia ( no output )
camelia ( no output )
ShimmerFairy I'm guessing it works in a grammar because the regex code lives in NQP? :)
12:56 diana_olhovik_ joined
masak m: my @a = 1, 2, 3; my $s = supply { whenever @a -> $n { emit $n } }; $s.tap({ say "It's $^n!" }) 12:56
GLRelia rakudo-moar 93ade8: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/I5_lFX28Ri␤Unexpected block in infix position (missing statement control word before the expression?)␤at /tmp/I5_lFX28Ri:1␤------> 3 = 1, 2, 3; my $s = supply { whenever @a7⏏5 -> $n { emit $n } }; $s…»
camelia rakudo-moar ac3488: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/V25ei2Od6n␤Undeclared routine:␤ emit used at line 1. Did you mean 'exit'?␤␤»
masak hm. 12:57
m: my @a = 1, 2, 3; my $s = supply { whenever @a -> $n { say "It's $n!" } }
GLRelia rakudo-moar 93ade8: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/CIIKrBA9iT␤Unexpected block in infix position (missing statement control word before the expression?)␤at /tmp/CIIKrBA9iT:1␤------> 3 = 1, 2, 3; my $s = supply { whenever @a7⏏5 -> $n { say "It's $n!" …»
camelia ( no output )
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masak m: say Date.new(2015, 1, 31).later(:1month) 13:55
GLRelia rakudo-moar 93ade8: OUTPUT«day of 2015/2 out of range. Is: 31, should be in 1..28␤ in block <unit> at /tmp/3PKIjbTajg:1␤␤»
camelia rakudo-moar ac3488: OUTPUT«day of 2015/2 out of range. Is: 31, should be in 1..28␤ in block <unit> at /tmp/LVnRjh9E9X:1␤␤»
masak do we want this to work?
laben probably, but how do you define "a month later"? 13:57
masak one possible definition is: start of next month + current number of days in.
mostly asking: do we want that?
m: say Date.new(2015, 2, 3).later(:1month) 13:58
camelia rakudo-moar ac3488: OUTPUT«2015-03-03␤»
GLRelia rakudo-moar 93ade8: OUTPUT«2015-03-03␤»
Zoffix The ambiguity on the definition would likely cause problems
laben maybe it's better for consistency to not provide a month option and only days
masak presumably, there'd be some overlap, and Date.new(2015, 1, 31).later(:1month) would come out to the same as the above.
laben: I think a month option is quite nice (and natural) to have.
laben: but the question is how we handle "month skew" 13:59
what's Least Surprise here? and what's least likely to burn people and least likely to have them hate us? :)
ShimmerFairy masak: I could see your definition, but I also think "one month later" or "three months later" is not a granular phrase in English, so one might expect the day value be clamped as needed.
*are not granular phrases 14:00
masak here's another possibility: if we ever overflow (like we did above), just place us on the 1st of the next month.
laben checking what other languages do? like python. let's see if it makes sense
masak remember, .later and .earlier are already a "fix" or improvement on CPAN's DateTime::Duration 14:01
ShimmerFairy how so?
masak which has some bad failure modes. notably, it adds the components of the duration in an unexpected order.
and there's not really a "right" order when one starts to think about it.
and so .later and .earlier forces you to consider the order yourself, in your program.
all you can do with them is add individual components. 14:02
I think I don't like the current error, because "one month later" doesn't feel like an operation that should fail :/ 14:03
ShimmerFairy masak: I personally think the :month adverb on .later and .earlier should probably mimic the non-granularity of the equivalent phrases in English; that is, get the month right, fudge the day if needed :)
masak anyone against us making "one month later than Jan 31st" Mar 1st?
ShimmerFairy: right, agree.
ShimmerFairy: we basically "round up" until we get a valid date again. 14:04
ShimmerFairy masak: After all, even on my birthday I would probably mean February if I said "next month". And my birthday is 31 Jan :)
masak "next month" isn't exactly the same thing as "one month later". but point taken. :)
let me run spectests and attempt the change.
are people committing to nom currently? I know there's a glr thing going on... 14:05
laben as far as python goes, timedelta (the object they use for durations) goes up to weeks, but no months
ShimmerFairy masak: I would personally adjust the month appropriately, and then clamp the day value to the new month's range. Feels most natural to me.
masak: I'm doing my work against nom, since I'm not doing GLR-related things. But there's definitely more activity on glr these days :)
masak laben: aw, they don't do years? 14:06
laben masak: nope
masak ShimmerFairy: more activity, but no ban against committing on nom?
laben just checked for py2 and py3
ShimmerFairy masak: To be fair, everything after weeks is, strictly speaking, irregular :P
moritz back home after three weeks travel
ShimmerFairy No, certainly no policy against committing to nom
masak moritz! \o/
ShimmerFairy: years are irregular, but easlier to count with than months :) 14:07
laben bah, they could have added years just as easily. i think they didnt to not highlight the missing month option
or maybe they have some trudgery going on with leap years
masak well, theirs is the "safe" option, for sure.
laben yeah, i guess you wouldnt really be faulted if the core Date object was as "safe" and maybe provide the rest with a module 14:08
either way, just need to mkae sure it's documented and understandable 14:09
make*
ShimmerFairy masak: btw, in case you missed it, there was talk of making Perl 6 technically follow RFC 3339 as opposed to ISO 8601, for the sake of using a standard you don't need to pay money to read :) 14:10
moritz how different are RFC 3339 and ISO 8601 14:14
?
14:15 FROGGS_ is now known as FROGGS
FROGGS o/ 14:15
moritz FR\OGGS
ShimmerFairy Not very, AFAIK. You can use lowercase letters instead, for example (2015-12-25t00:00:00z for example)
It also allows -00:00 as an offset meaning "timezone unknown/unimportant", where ISO 8601 forbids "-00:00" as an offset. 14:16
link to rfc: tools.ietf.org/html/rfc3339 14:17
dalek ast/glr: 3a4034c | moritz++ | rosettacode/sierpinski_triangle.t:
Explicitly flatten in Sierpinski triangle
 14:19
14:20 virtualsue joined 14:22 aborazmeh left
laben =.= in a way ietf is similar to w3c, they like recursion and eating dog food. they have an rfc (2026) to describe how to do rfc (and other docs) 14:22
dalek ast/glr: 7516075 | moritz++ | integration/advent2012-day10.t:
Avoid a test erroring out
 14:25
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moritz m: say map { $_ * 2 }, ^4 14:38
GLRelia rakudo-moar 93ade8: OUTPUT«0 2 4 6␤»
camelia rakudo-moar ac3488: OUTPUT«0 2 4 6␤»
14:39 virtualsue joined, virtualsue left
moritz m: my %r=(^8)>>.fmt("%03b") Z (0,1,1,1,1,0,0,0);; say %r.perl 14:39
GLRelia rakudo-moar 93ade8: OUTPUT«{"000 0" => $("001", 1), "010 1" => $("011", 1), "100 1" => $("101", 0), "110 0" => $("111", 0)}␤»
camelia rakudo-moar ac3488: OUTPUT«{"000" => 0, "001" => 1, "010" => 1, "011" => 1, "100" => 1, "101" => 0, "110" => 0, "111" => 0}<>␤»
FROGGS m: say grep-index(Int, 2, [], 4, [], 5)
GLRelia rakudo-moar 93ade8: OUTPUT«0 1 2␤»
camelia rakudo-moar ac3488: OUTPUT«0 2 4␤»
moritz m: my %r=(^8)>>.fmt("%03b") Z=> (0,1,1,1,1,0,0,0);; say %r.perl 14:40
camelia rakudo-moar ac3488: OUTPUT«{"000" => 0, "001" => 1, "010" => 1, "011" => 1, "100" => 1, "101" => 0, "110" => 0, "111" => 0}<>␤»
GLRelia rakudo-moar 93ade8: OUTPUT«{"000" => 0, "001" => 1, "010" => 1, "011" => 1, "100" => 1, "101" => 0, "110" => 0, "111" => 0}␤»
FROGGS m: sub foo(*@v) { say @v.perl }; foo(1, [], 2, []) 14:41
GLRelia rakudo-moar 93ade8: OUTPUT«[1, 2]␤»
camelia rakudo-moar ac3488: OUTPUT«[1, [], 2, []]<>␤»
FROGGS m: sub foo(**@v) { say @v.perl }; foo(1, [], 2, [])
GLRelia rakudo-moar 93ade8: OUTPUT«[1, $[], 2, $[]]␤»
camelia rakudo-moar ac3488: OUTPUT«(1; ; 2; )␤»
14:42 aborazmeh left
dalek ast/glr: bdb37bb | moritz++ | integration/advent2009-day23.t:
Fix Christmas Tree
 14:42
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laben moritz: in the dwimmy hyper code, it checks if the last elem of a list is a Whatever. i couldnt find it in the S03, what does it mean? 14:44
moritz laben: iirc it's for auto-extending that list somehow
laben but isn't that done with the dwimmy pointing of the hyper? 14:45
i mean, the difference between >>op<< and >>op>>
moritz S03 says "For any kind of zip or dwimmy hyper operator, any list ending with * is assumed to be infinitely extensible by taking its final element and replicating it:"
14:45 Ven left, rindolf joined
laben moritz: which line is it? couldn find it 14:45
moritz laben: dunno, I used the website :-) 14:46
laben ok i found it, thanks
it was the last paragraph, which i unwittingly skipped 14:47
FROGGS m: say grep-index(Int, 2, [], 4, [], 5) # moritz: can you tell me which one is correct? 14:49
GLRelia rakudo-moar 93ade8: OUTPUT«0 1 2␤»
camelia rakudo-moar ac3488: OUTPUT«0 2 4␤»
FROGGS I really dunno what to expect nowadays
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moritz m: say [Int, 2, [], 4, [], 5].perl 14:51
camelia rakudo-moar ac3488: OUTPUT«[Int, 2, [], 4, [], 5]␤»
GLRelia rakudo-moar 93ade8: OUTPUT«[Int, 2, $[], 4, $[], 5]␤»
moritz m: for Int, 2, [], 4, [], 5 { say .perl }
GLRelia rakudo-moar 93ade8: OUTPUT«Int␤2␤[]␤4␤[]␤5␤»
camelia rakudo-moar ac3488: OUTPUT«Int␤2␤[]␤4␤[]␤5␤»
FROGGS so the old code?
moritz FROGGS: looks like it to me
FROGGS kthx
moritz FROGGS: but I'm not entirely sure either :(
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dalek kudo/glr: 59dc4ae | FROGGS++ | src/core/Any-iterable-methods.pm:
make sub grep-index not swallow empty arrays
 14:58
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lizmat FROGGS: shouldn't that also be done for the other subs like first? 15:02
FROGGS++ by the way :-) 15:03
anyway, I'll test that
FROGGS lizmat: well, I just look at the test fallout...
15:04 colomon left
b2gills .tell jnthn I think there could be a way to ask a sequence generator how many items it would produce if fully iterated ( remove `.infinite` ) ｢(1..1000).will-produce == 1000｣ ｢(gather {...}).will-produce === Int | Mu｣ ｢(gather {...} :will-produce(100)).will-produce == 100｣ (that last one will work without a grammar change, as it already does work for :infinite ) There should be no guarantees that the value will always be accurat 15:05
yoleaux b2gills: I'll pass your message to jnthn.
JimmyZ moritz: I think github.com/perl6/roast/commit/75160753eb is wrong
moritz: lizmat++ it has another deep problem 15:06
s/it/said/
*said it
moritz: irclog.perlgeek.de/perl6/2015-08-20#i_11086121 15:08
b2gills I think there is a problem here: github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/05e46f5774 ｢$!i <= $!e｣ should probably use ｢!after｣ instead of ｢<=｣ because Range is used for strings as well as numbers ( just checked is still a problem on latest ) String ranges should be their own class really 15:10
lizmat m: ("a".."z").slip.say
GLRelia rakudo-moar 59dc4a: OUTPUT«Method 'slip' not found for invocant of class 'Range'␤ in block <unit> at /tmp/_YKluDFwe5:1␤␤»
camelia rakudo-moar ac3488: OUTPUT«Method 'slip' not found for invocant of class 'Range'␤ in block <unit> at /tmp/csgO61TyQW:1␤␤»
laben m: dd 'a'..'c'
GLRelia rakudo-moar 59dc4a: OUTPUT«"a".."c"␤» 15:11
camelia rakudo-moar ac3488: OUTPUT«"a".."c"␤»
lizmat m: ("a".."z").Slip.say
camelia rakudo-moar ac3488: OUTPUT«Method 'Slip' not found for invocant of class 'Range'␤ in block <unit> at /tmp/PDVJ8wOSVn:1␤␤»
GLRelia rakudo-moar 59dc4a: OUTPUT«a b c d e f g h i j k l m n o p q r s t u v w x y z␤»
laben m: dd ['a'..'c']
camelia rakudo-moar ac3488: OUTPUT«$ = ["a", "b", "c"]␤»
GLRelia rakudo-moar 59dc4a: OUTPUT«["a", "b", "c"]␤»
lizmat b2gills: yet it seems to work, or is another candidate taking care of this?
laben m: dd slip('a'..'d') 15:12
GLRelia rakudo-moar 59dc4a: OUTPUT«("a".."d")␤»
camelia rakudo-moar ac3488: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/Lftv8h0vZP␤Undeclared routine:␤ slip used at line 1. Did you mean 'flip'?␤␤»
laben m: dd ('a'..'d').Slip
GLRelia rakudo-moar 59dc4a: OUTPUT«("a", "b", "c", "d")␤»
camelia rakudo-moar ac3488: OUTPUT«Method 'Slip' not found for invocant of class 'Range'␤ in block <unit> at /tmp/xrLIlZbgHx:1␤␤»
b2gills I'm backlogging, I was helping my brother demolish a kitchen which he is renovating so I was definitely AFK. 15:14
moritz lizmat, JimmyZ: I find .lines returning Seq very intuitive 15:23
FROGGS should .FOR still exists? 15:24
JimmyZ moritz: irclog.perlgeek.de/perl6/2015-08-20#i_11086136 15:25
moritz JimmyZ: I don't see how that relates to .lines returning a Seq 15:26
JimmyZ moritz: split the $input and @result to two 'my' won't return a Seq
moritz JimmyZ: even then I *still* don't see what's wrong with my spectest patch 15:27
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JimmyZ moritz: gist.github.com/zhuomingliang/1129...e5a96306b4 # this patch make the test pass, but hide the problem 15:28
moritz JimmyZ: let me get this straight... 15:30
masak ShimmerFairy: I did miss that. thank you for bringing it to my attention.
moritz JimmyZ: you're saying neither your nor my patch should be needed; assigning a Seq to an @array variable should automatically coerce and thus memoize the sequence
masak ShimmerFairy: to the extent those two standards are not wildly different (e.g. upper-case vs lower-case is OK), I'm fine with it and think it could be a good idea. open standards FTW. 15:31
moritz JimmyZ: and it works right now for direct assignment, but not for the my ($thing, @array) = ... case
JimmyZ: correct?
JimmyZ moritz: yeah
moritz JimmyZ: ok. Then I think we should have a dedicated test for that with an appropriate description
ShimmerFairy masak: yeah, on a skim of the standard, the only thing the RFC _disallows_ is an hour of '24', limiting the range to 00..23 to avoid potential issues of confusion.
moritz JimmyZ: and I'll ad done later if I can remember, and have the mental capacity 15:32
*add
laben m: my \a = (1,2,3).map(*.Str); a.WHAT.say; my @b = a; @b.WHAT.say
GLRelia rakudo-moar 59dc4a: OUTPUT«(Seq)␤(Array)␤»
camelia rakudo-moar ac3488: OUTPUT«(List)␤(Array)␤»
ShimmerFairy masak: and for the :1month thing, there could always be a :precisely adverb that doesn't toss any overflow :)
laben m: my \a = (1,2,3).map(*.Str); a.WHAT.say; dd a; my @b = a; @b.WHAT.say; dd @b
GLRelia rakudo-moar 59dc4a: OUTPUT«(Seq)␤("1", "2", "3").iterator␤This Seq has already been iterated, and its values consumed␤ in block <unit> at /tmp/iv6NUPGHma:1␤␤»
camelia rakudo-moar ac3488: OUTPUT«(List)␤("1", "2", "3")␤(Array)␤@b = ["1", "2", "3"]<>␤»
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laben oh, gosh. again with .perl consuming the Seq 15:33
JimmyZ moritz: irclog.perlgeek.de/perl6/2015-08-20#i_11086139 #there was one , I just don't know where it should be 15:34
moritz S32-list/seq.t 15:37
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masak ShimmerFairy: installing a named parameter there feels a bit like the let's-make-it-configurable trap. 15:43
ShimmerFairy: put differently, I don't really see a use case. people tend to usually mean "roughly one month later" and not think about the implications so much. 15:44
spectesting a patch now.
ShimmerFairy fair enough. The only other place I can see that being useful would be February 29th with :year[s] :)
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masak ShimmerFairy: February 29th either is a valid date in the year, or it isn't. no adverb will change that. :) 15:50
ShimmerFairy masak: I mean (Feb 29).later(:1year) . Does that go precisely go 365 days later, or stay in February? :) 15:51
b2gills (Feb 29).later(:400year) 15:52
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ChoHag My brain's having a good old fart. How do you determine whether a class is or inherits from a class name held in a Str? 15:54
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ChoHag Or consumes the Str as a role. 15:54
arnsholt Isn't that the ::($name) syntax?
moritz ~~ ::($typename)
yes
b2gills m: my $class = 'Int'; say 5 ~~ ::($class) 15:55
camelia rakudo-moar ac3488: OUTPUT«True␤»
GLRelia rakudo-moar 59dc4a: OUTPUT«True␤»
arnsholt I remembered a thing. Yay! =)
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ChoHag Hmm. I don't remember seeing that before. 15:56
Maybe it wasn't a fart after all.
How's the GLR going btw?
moritz it's progressing. 15:57
dalek ast/glr: 4345b0b | (Jimmy Zhuo)++ | S32-list/seq.t:
new test seq.t
moritz ChoHag: down to ~140 or so failing test files
ChoHag <Management> How complete is it as a percentage?
JimmyZ moritz: it'd be nice to add seq.t to spectest.data :) 15:58
ChoHag Cod I hate people asking me that...
dalek kudo/glr: ef66690 | moritz++ | t/spectest.data:
Run new test file seq.t, JimmyZ++
 15:59
moritz "we're well into the first 80%"
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b2gills Unfortunately the last 20% usually takes 80% of the time. 16:05
moritz that's why they are called the second 80% 16:06
ChoHag And that'n when it's handed over to ops for the 3rd 80%. 16:08
dalek ast/glr: 87b55ac | (Jimmy Zhuo)++ | S32-list/seq.t:
s/is/is-deeply/
 16:10
ChoHag I want to be able to use a named regex in a when clause a la 'when Foo::Bar.thing { ... }', which I've achieved by having a method thing in class Foo::Bar which returns rx/.../. 16:11
Is there a more sensible way to do that?
masak I think so. 16:12
timotimo m: class Foobar { regex Test is export { ... } }; say Foobar::Test.WHAT
GLRelia rakudo-moar ef6669: OUTPUT«Could not find symbol '&Test'␤ in block <unit> at /tmp/NzmpTVinbT:1␤␤Actually thrown at:␤ in block <unit> at /tmp/NzmpTVinbT:1␤␤»
camelia rakudo-moar ac3488: OUTPUT«Could not find symbol '&Test'␤ in block <unit> at /tmp/RbvZpwPfEt:1␤␤Actually thrown at:␤ in block <unit> at /tmp/RbvZpwPfEt:1␤␤»
timotimo oh, that's not what i meant 16:13
m: class Foobar { our regex Test { ... } }; say Foobar::Test.WHAT
GLRelia rakudo-moar ef6669: OUTPUT«Too few positionals passed; expected 1 argument but got 0␤ in regex Test at /tmp/lUqMlCTXDy:1␤ in block <unit> at /tmp/lUqMlCTXDy:1␤␤»
camelia rakudo-moar ac3488: OUTPUT«Too few positionals passed; expected 1 argument but got 0␤ in regex Test at /tmp/YU9N6ow8ZD:1␤ in block <unit> at /tmp/YU9N6ow8ZD:1␤␤»
moritz m: class My::Grammar { our regex number { ^ \d+ $ } }; sub f($x where My::Grammar::number) { say 42 }
camelia ( no output )
GLRelia ( no output )
moritz m: class My::Grammar { our regex number { ^ \d+ $ } }; sub f($x where My::Grammar::number) { say 42 }; f 42
GLRelia rakudo-moar ef6669: OUTPUT«Too few positionals passed; expected 1 argument but got 0␤ in regex number at /tmp/rlQ3vcxwGa:1␤ in sub f at /tmp/rlQ3vcxwGa:1␤ in block <unit> at /tmp/rlQ3vcxwGa:1␤␤»
camelia rakudo-moar ac3488: OUTPUT«Too few positionals passed; expected 1 argument but got 0␤ in regex number at /tmp/Nek4dXjN8Y:1␤ in sub f at /tmp/Nek4dXjN8Y:1␤ in block <unit> at /tmp/Nek4dXjN8Y:1␤␤»
timotimo so that's a call, not a mention
masak m: class Foo::Bar { my $.thing = /HAI$/ }; given "OH HAI" { when Foo::Bar.thing { .say } }
camelia rakudo-moar ac3488: OUTPUT«OH HAI␤»
GLRelia rakudo-moar ef6669: OUTPUT«OH HAI␤»
moritz m: class My::Grammar { our regex number { ^ \d+ $ } }; sub f($x where &My::Grammar::number) { say 42 }; f 42
GLRelia rakudo-moar ef6669: OUTPUT«42␤»
camelia rakudo-moar ac3488: OUTPUT«42␤»
moritz m: class My::Grammar { our regex number { ^ \d+ $ } }; sub f($x where &My::Grammar::number) { say 42 }; f 'not a number'
GLRelia rakudo-moar ef6669: OUTPUT«Constraint type check failed for parameter '$x'␤ in sub f at /tmp/mGqtvI0sru:1␤ in block <unit> at /tmp/mGqtvI0sru:1␤␤»
camelia rakudo-moar ac3488: OUTPUT«Constraint type check failed for parameter '$x'␤ in sub f at /tmp/ZtBmJ6bt5Q:1␤ in block <unit> at /tmp/ZtBmJ6bt5Q:1␤␤»
masak nice, I was the only one who went for `my $.thing` :) 16:14
moritz ok, that works
masak adhering to ChoHag's dot requirement
ChoHag Meh it doesn't have to be a dot.
masak I agree that `::` and `our` might be more sixish.
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moritz masak: I adhered to the "something like" requirement :-) 16:14
16:14 AlexDani` is now known as AlexDaniel
masak ChoHag: no, but I liked that I could make it work :> 16:14
ChoHag :) 16:15
dalek ast: 66a389d | (Carl Masak)++ | S32-temporal/Date (2 files):
tests to not die a month from Jan 31st
kudo/nom: 4288450 | (Carl Masak)++ | src/core/Temporal.pm:
make .later not die on day-of-month overflow
 16:16
masak spectested an everything. :)
and*
ShimmerFairy masak: good, except I don't agree with clamping to the first of the next month (I'd rather clamp to the last day of the expected month) 16:18
AlexDaniel Just 130 tests? Wow! nine++
yoleaux 21 Aug 2015 08:14Z <FROGGS> AlexDaniel: the qx//|run|shell issue is not a very big one on my list btw... there are more important issues we need to address
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ShimmerFairy masak: aka 31 Jan + 1 month -> 28/29 Feb. Mar 1 feels like an off-by-one kind of error to me, in addition to not returning the expected month :) 16:20
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ShimmerFairy anyway, night #perl6 o/ :) 16:23
colomon \o
AlexDaniel .tell FROGGS As far as I can see, qx// issue will require some deprecation, that's why I'd really like to see it being reworked before any major release. But I do understand that there are other issues. Thanks anyway.
yoleaux AlexDaniel: I'll pass your message to FROGGS.
JimmyZ ShimmerFairy: good night
colomon is waiting at the airport, starting first leg of trip to Switzerland… 16:24
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masak ShimmerFairy: I could also accept clamping to the end of the month. IMO, it's all about where to introduce the discontinuity/overlap. 16:30
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b2gills
.oO( I know there are MMX SSE or SIMD ops that don't overflow, instead they stick to the min or max value )
 16:38
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census since when is there a slap option? 16:39
i'd like to slap some #perl people
masak census: hey 16:45
census: don't slap anyone. come in here and cool off for a while :)
census hi masak!
hahahahah
yea i wasn't planning on it
masak ShimmerFairy: ok, you've convinced me. makes the logic simpler, too :)
lizmat ShimmerFairy masak : perhaps internally it *should* be 31 Feb, just in stringifying / looking at attributes it shojld say 28/29 Feb 16:48
then you can still move on another month on that object, and get a sane thing
similar to when you're in an editor, the cursor remembers the column where you were when you're moving up or down past shorter lines 16:49
lichtkind is the pure sub trait gone?
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lizmat m: sub a() is pure {} 16:49
GLRelia ( no output )
camelia ( no output )
lizmat looks like it is still there
masak lizmat: I don't like the idea of even being able to create dates that don't exist.
lizmat: that's why we throw an exception on creating that kind of date.
lichtkind lizmat: thank but i currently could find in syn 16:51
lizmat lichtkind: that's entirely possible
masak: well, just throwing in my 2c
ChoHag Is the date class able to distinguish between 'the 31st of the month' and 'the last day of the month'?
lizmat good night, #perl6!
skids jdv79: (backlogging) strings in ABNF are case insensitive. You have to use hex rules to specify case. 16:52
ChoHag Because if I did something with someone on Jan 31st and they said 'same time next month?' I'd be confused (ie. throw a tantrum^Wexception) and ask them to clarify *unless* we had done the thing on that day in January because there was already a last-day-of-the-month agreement in place. 16:53
Maybe it's happening on the 31st because it happens to be the last Thursday? 16:57
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ChoHag Then plus one month would be Feb 28 and plus two would be Mar 28 or 27 in a leap year. 16:58
To put it simply, you can't put it simply. If you've used the word simple in anything to do with date handling, you're wrong. 16:59
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ChoHag It's that simple. 17:00
laben i may have a sorta kinda impl of (non) dwimmy hypers, how do i check the hypers tests? 17:02
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masak ChoHag: I agree with everything you jsut said. 17:09
ChoHag: I would also like for .later not to throw an exception.
lizmat: I wish I could explain my intuition there a bit better. part of the "responsibility" of Date/DateTime is delineating what's even a legal date. 17:11
and choking at construction if the inputs are illegal.
allowing chameleon dates which look like one thing but contain hidden information about another thing, and can be printed to look like an illegal date, eats into that responsibility and makes date/datetime worse at their job. 17:12
zacts hello 17:14
skids o/
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ChoHag What does the regex class 'ident' mean? 17:17
Specifically.
masak ChoHag: "identifier" (as defined by Perl 6) 17:19
dalek kudo/nom: d6bf551 | (Carl Masak)++ | src/core/Temporal.pm:
clip to end of month instead of overflow to next

  ShimmerFairy++ for the suggestion. This simplifies the logic a bit.
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ChoHag Really? Code looks like it's the other way around. 17:20
token identifier { <.ident> [ <.apostrophe> <.ident> ]* }
skids Yeah ISTR that. ident is the peice of identifiers that's valid for things that don't take apostrophe names. 17:22
moritz ident is a typical identifier in other programming languages 17:25
ChoHag What would the p5 regex equivalent look like? 17:26
moritz my $ident = qr/\pL\w*/; my $identifier = qr/$ident (?: ['-] $ident )* /x 17:28
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dalek kudo-star-daily: dfdacea | coke++ | log/ (10 files):
today (automated commit)
 17:43
rl6-roast-data: bc1df84 | coke++ | / (10 files):
today (automated commit)
rl6-roast-data: e2fddff | coke++ | / (9 files):
today (automated commit)
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ChoHag How can I use the tokens in Perl6::Grammar in my own regexen? 17:49
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masak ChoHag: if you find out, let me know. :/ 17:53
ChoHag Not the answer I was hoping for... 17:54
masak I think someone did that recently. was it ShimmerFairy?
ChoHag ... Who's gone to bed.
masak ChoHag: it *is* a very reasonable/desirable use case. it's just traditionally been Hard To Do.
I mean, if you hack your way down to the NQP level, sooner or later you're going to find Perl6::Grammar. 17:55
but it should be super-easy to do, and it isn't, yet.
ChoHag I was a little surprised when I found that Perl6::Grammar was unknown.
masak aye.
that's because it's defined in the substrate used by the compiler. 17:56
you're in the runtime; that's a different process with different namespaces.
ChoHag ISTR reading about a means of matching 'something in brackets', ie. open-brackets, thing-except-close-brackets-unless-preceeded-by-open-brackets, close-same-type-of-brackets. 18:03
masak are you thinking of `'(' ~ ')' <inside>` ?
ChoHag I don't know. 18:04
Am I?
masak think so.
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pmurias hi 18:05
masak don't expect too much from that construct. <inside> has to give back control to its callee for the ')' to match. and ')' can match in <inside>, no problem.
pmurias: \o
pmurias: happy to see you've picked up JS again :)
ChoHag Nothing is ever as simple as originally planned.
masak ChoHag: well, it's working as designed.
ChoHag: it just takes a while to get used to.
ChoHag I mean what I'm doing. 18:06
"Match a thing followed optionally by its name in brackets"
When I decided to do that, in my head it was just '\w+(\[\w+\])?'. When I get to actually writing the code, that's woefully inadequate. 18:07
Every step is like that. It's a lesson I never seem to learn. 18:08
"That'll be easy. Let's leave it for later and concentrate on the meat. ... Oh..."
ugexe $<some-identifier>=['{' | '[] .*? 18:10
$<some-identifier>=['{' | '['] .*? <before $<some-identifier>> something like this can work
skids really would be nice to have a ~-like regex op that automatically tends to nesting like everyone expects ~ to.
ugexe oh nm that doesnt work for brackets. just quotes 18:11
ChoHag I rest my case.
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ugexe i would just write the 2 additional simple rules 18:15
token optional { '{' <whatever. '}' | '[' <whatever> ']' }
ChoHag Well honestly I have to rething the whole naming part anyway. 18:16
18:17 yqt joined
jnthn made it home in one piece from YAPC::Asia 18:18
yoleaux 22 Aug 2015 16:46Z <japhb> jnthn: It's looking now like the limiting factor for the awesomeness of your parallelism/asynchrony/concurrency talks is *the length of the talk*. I think we need to get you longer speaking slots. ;-)
09:36Z <vendethiel> jnthn: isn't there a race condition in jnthn.net/papers/2015-yapcasia-concurrency.pdf slide 59 for the "unless"?
15:05Z <b2gills> jnthn: I think there could be a way to ask a sequence generator how many items it would produce if fully iterated ( remove `.infinite` ) ｢(1..1000).will-produce == 1000｣ ｢(gather {...}).will-produce === Int | Mu｣ ｢(gather {...} :will-produce(100)).will-produce == 100｣ (that last one will work without a grammar change, as it already does work for :infinite ) There should be no guarantees that the value will always be
accurat
jnthn Darn that was not a fun journey at all...
.tell vendethiel the text right above explains why it's not ;) We don't let any of the code in a given supply/react instance be running on multiple threads, so there can never be two threads racing to read/write any state enclosed in the supply/react block 18:21
yoleaux jnthn: I'll pass your message to vendethiel.
vendethiel computer? 18:22
yoleaux 18:21Z <jnthn> vendethiel: the text right above explains why it's not ;) We don't let any of the code in a given supply/react instance be running on multiple threads, so there can never be two threads racing to read/write any state enclosed in the supply/react block
vendethiel jnthn: thanks. I didn't understand it that way :)
jnthn vendethiel: Yeah, the supply/react stuff deserves a talk of its own really, but making things like that example work correctly was one of my explicit goals with it from the start :) 18:23
18:23 cschwenz joined
vendethiel jnthn: yes, it feels like you want to explore more monitor and/or actor in the talk, but left it "for some later talk"(well, or previous!). but it's still great! 18:23
jnthn .tell b2gills While I agree there could be such a thing, I'd like to see more concrete use cases :) 18:24
yoleaux jnthn: I'll pass your message to b2gills.
jnthn vendethiel: Yeah, this talk is in part "I did a bunch of parallel/concurrent/async talks before, let me now try and show when the various pieces apply" :)
.tell b2gills Not least because I was very glad to kill off the whole .infinite thing 18:25
yoleaux jnthn: I'll pass your message to b2gills.
masak jnthn! \o/ 18:27
timotimo what the ... hell? my script causes an internal error in stage parse ... World::install_lexical_container tries to call .value on the $var and it says it can't find it ... 18:28
18:28 Ven joined
jnthn About [[1]] needing to be [[1],] in GLR - yes, I know. :) But if I understood the result of the grep-all-the-modules, it's not like it's common to do [[0]] style things for one. And for two, it's the same thing that makes [1..10] give you an array of 10 items. 18:30
It's one of those "you can't win" situations - at least, if you want to kill of the amount of auto-flattening we used to do.
18:30 mjgardner left
jnthn (And I think we generally *do*) 18:30
Anyway, I chose not to win the [[0]] battle during the glr war. 18:31
timotimo failed to find a variable by the name of $_ in the block stack
18:31 TEttinger joined
timotimo oh, block stack isn't actually right 18:31
potentially a swallowed error for redeclaring $_ 18:32
m: my @test; while @test { my $_ = 1 }
GLRelia rakudo-moar ef6669: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Cannot find method 'value'␤»
camelia rakudo-moar d6bf55: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Cannot find method 'value'␤»
pmurias jnthn: are there docs on how subrule rxtype works?
timotimo m: my @test; while @test { $_ = 1 }
GLRelia ( no output ) 18:33
camelia ( no output )
timotimo so "my $_" is supposed to give a compile-time error there?
jnthn pmurias: Not that I know of
timotimo: ooc, is that an error with --optimize=off or so?
timotimo it happens in stage parse
so it can't make a difference
pmurias jnthn: I'm doing a bit of guessing on how the subtypes work, but it would be much better if I had a description of them instead of just hacking things till the tests pass ;) 18:34
jnthn timotimo: ah, interesting 18:35
timotimo: But yeah, certainly a bug
timotimo: I don't have the energy to look at it now
pmurias: I already ported it twice that way successfully :P
timotimo no problem
masak timotimo: want me to rakudobug the `my $_` thing? 18:39
m: while 0 { my $_ }
GLRelia rakudo-moar ef6669: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Cannot find method 'value'␤»
camelia rakudo-moar d6bf55: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Cannot find method 'value'␤»
timotimo masak: sure, go ahead :)
masak m: { my $_ }
GLRelia rakudo-moar ef6669: OUTPUT«Potential difficulties:␤ Redeclaration of symbol $_␤ at /tmp/_33E8YSEeR:1␤ ------> 3{ my $_ 7⏏5}␤»
camelia rakudo-moar d6bf55: OUTPUT«Potential difficulties:␤ Redeclaration of symbol $_␤ at /tmp/fQEBMAwxS3:1␤ ------> 3{ my $_ 7⏏5}␤»
timotimo thank you
masak submits rakudobug
no problem. been a while since I submitted anything ;)
18:41 Ven left
masak m: for 0 { my $_ } 18:41
GLRelia rakudo-moar ef6669: OUTPUT«Potential difficulties:␤ Redeclaration of symbol $_␤ at /tmp/lFFtgEOjYq:1␤ ------> 3for 0 { my $_ 7⏏5}␤»
camelia rakudo-moar d6bf55: OUTPUT«Potential difficulties:␤ Redeclaration of symbol $_␤ at /tmp/e743xnFISm:1␤ ------> 3for 0 { my $_ 7⏏5}␤»
masak only while loops. innerestin'.
timotimo possibly some optimization (not in the optimizer) not being careful enough 18:42
jnthn Should go rest...bodies are not designed to do long-haul travel on close to zero sleep... :/
o/
pmurias jnthn: I'll mangage to do it that way too, would be great if it got documented at some point 18:43
masak jnthn: rest well. 18:44
18:44 mjgardner joined
FROGGS . 18:48
yoleaux 16:23Z <AlexDaniel> FROGGS: As far as I can see, qx// issue will require some deprecation, that's why I'd really like to see it being reworked before any major release. But I do understand that there are other issues. Thanks anyway.
18:50 Ven joined
Ven I'm trying to look at the GLR stuff (trying to fix S02-names-vars/list_array_perl) but I don't understand the behavior. 18:51
m: my @foo = ([-1, -2], -3); say @foo.perl; # why the $[] ?
GLRelia rakudo-moar ef6669: OUTPUT«[$[-1, -2], -3]␤»
camelia rakudo-moar d6bf55: OUTPUT«[[-1, -2], -3]<>␤»
Ven I thought [] didn't itemize anymore? or is that there to prevnt @ = from flattening?
masak m: my @foo = [-1, -2]; say @foo.perl 18:54
GLRelia rakudo-moar ef6669: OUTPUT«[-1, -2]␤»
camelia rakudo-moar d6bf55: OUTPUT«[[-1, -2]]<>␤»
masak ooh :)
18:54 amirite left
timotimo [] doesn't itemize, but assigning to an array puts everything into a scalar container, does that seem right? 18:55
Ven that's what I'm asking before doing anything to this test :)
19:02 Ven left
nine .tell laben Of lists we know if they are lazy or not. Of lazy lists we may know that they are infinite or may be infinite. For example, what makes you think, that .lines is finite? It could be a stream of a webserver log that for all intents and purposes _is_ infinite. 19:03
yoleaux nine: I'll pass your message to laben.
19:05 diana_olhovik left, Ven joined 19:06 ChoHag left
dalek ast: 7e0c2b0 | FROGGS++ | S02-types/declare.t:
adjust expectation when assigning big bigint to native
 19:07
19:11 Ven_ joined, Ven left 19:12 domidumont left
BenGoldberg ponders whether there are any currently-existing perl6 processes started by ineted. 19:12
FROGGS jnthn: what do you think about .int* methods on Cool? 19:14
Ven_ FROGGS: that should probably be .tell :)
FROGGS good point :o) 19:15
Ven_ m: my $i; $i++ for (1, 2, 3).item; say $i; # is that expected? if "for" is *just .map*, it should probably be 3 and I should fix the test
GLRelia rakudo-moar ef6669: OUTPUT«3␤»
camelia rakudo-moar d6bf55: OUTPUT«1␤»
FROGGS I'll do later if I donot come to a conclusion on my own
19:16 brrt joined
Ven_ would like ShimmerFairy or nine's opinion, which are far more knowledgeable wrt glr and might still be able :) 19:16
19:16 llfourn joined
Ven_ I guess I should check RT#63350 and RT#78284 19:19
synbot6 Link: rt.perl.org/rt3/Public/Bug/Display...l?id=63350
Ven_ this RT is from 2009, and I'm not sure moritz++ saw GLR coming then :) 19:21
19:21 llfourn left 19:25 brrt left
masak m: my $i; $i++ for (1, 2, 3); say $i 19:27
GLRelia rakudo-moar ef6669: OUTPUT«3␤»
camelia rakudo-moar d6bf55: OUTPUT«3␤»
masak Ven_: so, you're saying the .item there makes no difference?
19:27 brrt joined
masak (which may well be true -- I'm just trying to understand) 19:27
Ven_ masak: yes. because in glr, "for" is literally just .map, as I've understood it 19:28
19:29 rindolf left
FROGGS m: my $i; $i++ for (1, 2, 3).item, 42; say $i; 19:29
GLRelia rakudo-moar ef6669: OUTPUT«2␤»
camelia rakudo-moar d6bf55: OUTPUT«2␤»
Ven_ FROGGS: because then, you're calling .for on ($[1, 2, 3], 42) :P
FROGGS Ven_: I think that counts as the "One Element Rule™" 19:30
Ven_ FROGGS: sorry? :)
masak Ven_: ok, I agree with that conclusion, then.
FROGGS Ven_: no, I'm not :o) 19:31
Ven_ FROGGS: I mean -- what's the one element rule?
19:31 rindolf joined
FROGGS if you are iterating over one element, and this is Positional or Iterable (I dunno), then you iterate over its elems 19:32
Ven_ FROGGS: right. seems consistent to you? the discussion in the ticket is interesting, but glr changed a lot of things 19:33
19:33 cschwenz left
FROGGS Ven_: I am not sure if it is consistent or sane... really 19:34
I need to get used to it and play with more GLR aspects to get a feeling 19:35
19:36 darutoko left
rindolf FROGGS: hi, sup? 19:36
FROGGS hi rindolf 19:37
jdv79 is it a one arg rule of a one arg exception to the rule?
19:40 espadrine left
Ven_ jdv79: sorry? 19:47
Ven_ feels confused by all this :)
it seems that "for 1 {}" working (iterating once) works because perl6 doesn't differentiate between "a" and "a,"
(which means a[0][0][0][0][0][0][0][0] =:= a, if a isn't Positional) 19:48
19:50 ggoebel joined 19:55 Ven_ left 19:56 jack_rabbit left, cognominal joined 20:03 Ven joined
masak I think Python for loops have something resembling a one element rule. 20:04
20:04 yqt left
brrt what kind of one-element rule do you mean? 20:06
20:06 zakharyas joined
masak m: for [1, 2, 3] { .say } 20:08
GLRelia rakudo-moar ef6669: OUTPUT«1␤2␤3␤»
camelia rakudo-moar d6bf55: OUTPUT«1 2 3␤»
20:08 Ven left
masak brrt: the one that holds in GLR but not cam. 20:08
brrt i'm not super-familiar with all that has been done on GLR
masak no, but you can see the difference in the above eval :)
brrt although most things look really decent to me
masak brrt: more specifically, in Python you always pass a single thing to a for loop. so there has to be a one-element rule. 20:09
jdv79 what's the fail count now?
brrt oh, right, there is a newline between each of the numbers
20:09 Ven joined
jdv79 btw, does anyone else see a non-spec native call test failing? 20:09
vendethiel what I used to do to explain is "imagine there are parentheses around the for's head": for 1, 2, 3 maps on (1, 2, 3), for @a maps on (@a) so @a)
that's an oversimplification, obviously :) 20:10
brrt jdv79: i do, yes
masak vendethiel: I'm still not too clear on what parentheses mean in GLR :) 20:11
20:13 xfix left 20:15 brrt left 20:16 brrt joined, llfourn joined 20:19 Ven left
skids masak: my take on it is parenthesis mean "don't change the default return type of infix[,] (which is List)" and also of course, to override the chaining , precedence. 20:19
20:20 zakharyas left
masak ok... I'll try to digest that. 20:20
it sounds like what someone who has understood more than I have about GLR might say :P
20:21 llfourn left
skids :) 20:23
20:27 telex left 20:28 telex joined 20:29 KCL joined 20:32 KCL_ left
moritz m: say ().^name 20:32
GLRelia rakudo-moar ef6669: OUTPUT«List␤»
camelia rakudo-moar d6bf55: OUTPUT«Parcel␤»
moritz there's always that special case
otherwise the statement about () not changing the type returned by infix:<,> is true both pre and post GLR 20:33
masak m: say ().^name.substr(*-2) 20:39
GLRelia rakudo-moar ef6669: OUTPUT«st␤»
camelia rakudo-moar d6bf55: OUTPUT«el␤»
masak I honestly don't know why I did that.
FROGGS *g*
vendethiel *g* 20:46
.oO( show me your true colors, substr )
masak m: say "Superman's birth name, Kal-", ().^name.substr(*-2) 20:48
GLRelia rakudo-moar ef6669: OUTPUT«Superman's birth name, Kal-st␤»
camelia rakudo-moar d6bf55: OUTPUT«Superman's birth name, Kal-el␤»
masak obviously, cam is right on that one.
dalek kudo-star-daily: d8b1d48 | coke++ | log/ (8 files):
today (automated commit)
 20:52
20:52 kaare_ left 20:53 mjgardner left
dalek rl6-roast-data: fde07ab | coke++ | / (2 files):
one more glr run today
 20:53
[Coke] jdv79: (test failures) coke/perl6-roast-data has daily runs on linux for all the backends (and glr0 20:54
(on github)
BenGoldberg m: say [R,] 1..4; 21:02
GLRelia rakudo-moar ef6669: OUTPUT«4 3 2 1␤»
camelia rakudo-moar d6bf55: OUTPUT«4 3 2 1␤»
BenGoldberg m: my @a = (1, 2, 3); @a.perl.say; 21:04
GLRelia rakudo-moar ef6669: OUTPUT«[1, 2, 3]␤»
camelia rakudo-moar d6bf55: OUTPUT«[1, 2, 3]<>␤»
BenGoldberg m: my $goal = "Just another sorting hacker,"; my @b = 'a'..'z';push @b, 'A'..'Z'; my $a = @b[^ $goal.chars].join; srand 1; my $scram = $a.comb.pick(*).join; my $pre = $a.trans( $scram => $goal ); srand 1; $pre.comb.pick(*).join.say 21:05
camelia rakudo-moar d6bf55: OUTPUT«Just another sorting hacker,␤»
GLRelia rakudo-moar ef6669: OUTPUT«Just another sorting hacker,␤»
BenGoldberg m: say( 1 R, 2 R, 3 R, 4 )l 21:06
GLRelia rakudo-moar ef6669: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/xJSvIFzPkY␤Two terms in a row␤at /tmp/xJSvIFzPkY:1␤------> 3say( 1 R, 2 R, 3 R, 4 )7⏏5l␤ expecting any of:␤ infix␤ infix stopper␤ statement end␤ statement mo…»
camelia rakudo-moar d6bf55: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/ewpuGzLo5A␤Two terms in a row␤at /tmp/ewpuGzLo5A:1␤------> 3say( 1 R, 2 R, 3 R, 4 )7⏏5l␤ expecting any of:␤ infix␤ infix stopper␤ statement end␤ statement mo…»
BenGoldberg m: say( 1 R, 2 R, 3 R, 4 );
GLRelia rakudo-moar ef6669: OUTPUT«2 1␤»
camelia rakudo-moar d6bf55: OUTPUT«2 1␤»
BenGoldberg m: my $pi = (pi*1e99).Int / (1e99.Int); say $pi; 21:12
GLRelia rakudo-moar ef6669: OUTPUT«3.14159265358979295␤»
camelia rakudo-moar d6bf55: OUTPUT«3.14159265358979295␤»
BenGoldberg m: my $pi = (pi*1e99).Int / (1e99.Int); say $pi.base-repeating(10); 21:13
GLRelia rakudo-moar ef6669: OUTPUT«(timeout)»
camelia rakudo-moar d6bf55: OUTPUT«(timeout)»
masak shameless plug: my YAPC::EU talk will be about code I have in production. some of that will be Perl 6 scripts I have in my ~/bin directory. I just pushed those to github.com/masak/tilde-bin -- feel free to have a look :) 21:16
and with that, I've only spoiled like 20% of my talk, so you should still come to the talk :> 21:17
21:19 brrt left
vendethiel
.oO( don't link your talk too much around)
 21:19
21:19 brrt1 joined
masak don't worry, I won't link to the *talk*, as it's currently (hastily) being written. 21:20
brrt1 is also writing a talk 21:22
masak what an unlikely coincidence. 21:24
brrt1 :-) 21:25
i'm trying not to ramble about arcane compilation details 21:27
vendethiel hopes his next talk can be about macros :) 21:29
..or a different language altogether
masak vendethiel: is that... a veiled threat? :P 21:30
vendethiel no! I mean something like lisp or smalltalk "in context" :)
masak :P
then I hope so too. 21:31
let's make Perl 6 macros awesome.
I know they're in there somewhere <3
21:32 philh left 21:34 yqt joined
timotimo m: my %test; say %test{"hello"} 21:34
GLRelia rakudo-moar ef6669: OUTPUT«(Any)␤»
camelia rakudo-moar d6bf55: OUTPUT«(Any)␤»
timotimo m: my %test; say %test{"hello"} ~ "hi"
GLRelia rakudo-moar ef6669: OUTPUT«Use of uninitialized value %test of type Any in string context in block <unit> at /tmp/8iIr8NZ2q8:1␤hi␤»
camelia rakudo-moar d6bf55: OUTPUT«Use of uninitialized value %test of type Any in string context in block <unit> at /tmp/uEAacd1liA:1␤hi␤»
timotimo ^- the "value %test" is kinda anti-helpful here
vendethiel masak :github.com/masak/tilde-bin/blob/ma.../month#L15 can't get them from the lang?
masak vendethiel: (a) you'll notice that's Swedish. 21:35
vendethiel: (b) when we spec'd Temporal, I/we decided to make it language-agnostic. not even English. 21:36
vendethiel: aka "let the module ecosystem handle that"
as far as I know, there is no such module (yet).
if/when there is, I'll happily use it.
labster m: Date.new('20150823') 21:37
GLRelia rakudo-moar ef6669: OUTPUT«Invalid Date string '20150823'; use yyyy-mm-dd instead␤ in block <unit> at /tmp/95J9q1FMQ3:1␤␤»
camelia rakudo-moar d6bf55: OUTPUT«Invalid Date string '20150823'; use yyyy-mm-dd instead␤ in block <unit> at /tmp/DGfzFYs5eV:1␤␤»
labster apparently that's supposed to be valid ISO 8601 too.
21:38 brrt1 left
jdv79 860tried to make everyone happy, right? 21:41
vendethiel masak: I noticed it was swedish :) 21:42
jdv79 *8601
masak labster: I... I think even as I read through ISO 8601 the first time, I made some judicious selections from it. :) 21:44
labster: no need to be ambiguous when there's a nicer form with dashes.
er, hyphens. whatever.
vendethiel masak: I still write all my scripts in perl6, obviously :P github.com/vendethiel/deepgitstatu...pgitstatus 21:45
labster masak: and that nicer form is standardized as RFC 3339.
vendethiel (yes, that's a global variable)
masak vendethiel: nice! :)
vendethiel masak: perl6 can look very awk-ish! github.com/vendethiel/psmemparse/b...emparse.p6 21:46
(I stopped working on this script because "next if $*ARGFILES.line == 1;" didn't quite exist, and I couldn't think or a reliable way to get per-file line number, so... but yeah)
masak: several people I "introduced" to perl6 told me they now do the same.. I should tell them to open-source it :) 21:47
masak :)
vendethiel well, it or them
masak it probably needs to start this way
Perl 6 from the ground up. from scripts through programs to applications.
I know people are writing applications already, but...
only lately does it feel like Perl 6 is getting established in people's ~/bin directories, for some reason. 21:48
maybe a reason called "stability".
labster and a reason named "speed"
masak aye 21:49
vendethiel whichever it is..:)
[Coke] FROGGS: github.com/perl6/roast/commit/7e0c2b0c fails on os x.
masak one of the scripts in my ~/bin directory runs each time I open a new terminal session -- and it *doesn't make me drum my fingers against the table* 21:50
vendethiel (who's next to write a blog engine in perl6? I already am.. :P)
anyway -- good night, #perl6!
masak 'night, ven 21:51
labster I remember drumming my fingers against the table after typing the first command in a REPL session.
night
21:56 stux|away joined 22:00 cognominal left 22:01 cschwenz joined
timotimo gist.github.com/timo/afb0413f1aead980a275 - a perl6 script automated converting a bunch of C code into an expression tree format for brrt's new jit 22:01
cschwenz Is there a SQLite module for Perl6? 22:02
masak cschwenz: DBIish supports SQLite. 22:03
timotimo yup
cschwenz \o/ thanks!
masak github.com/perl6/DBIish/
cschwenz *really* didn't want to go down the route of rolling my own. :-)
[Coke] misses having a working repl by default.
masak by the way, can we remove the "Search" text box at the top of modules.perl6.org/ ?
it's no significant improvement on Ctrl+F in the browser. 22:04
jdv79 its not the same 22:08
timotimo what bothers me about ctrl-f is that i can't then just hit return to activate a link i've selected via the search
or at least tab from the search result to the next visible link or somethign 22:09
jdv79 plus modules.perl6.org may be nearing EOL anyway, no?
timotimo maybe not as quickly as you think? 22:10
jdv79 probably
22:12 espadrine joined 22:13 cschwenz left, vendethiel left
masak timotimo: either Esc followed by Return, or Ctrl-Return works in that situation. 22:16
timotimo oh? 22:17
i didn't realize, i shall try that
masak the former takes you out of search mode
22:17 llfourn joined
masak the latter follows the link despite you being in search mode :) # hat-tip to a tadzik++ tweet 22:17
I repeat my case. Ctrl+F is already quite powerful. we're not adding anything by having a search box in-page. 22:18
'night, #perl6
timotimo gnite masak! 22:19
22:20 rindolf left 22:21 jack_rabbit joined 22:22 llfourn left
laben getting late here, i'm off to bed. stay happy #perl6 22:24
yoleaux 19:03Z <nine> laben: Of lists we know if they are lazy or not. Of lazy lists we may know that they are infinite or may be infinite. For example, what makes you think, that .lines is finite? It could be a stream of a webserver log that for all intents and purposes _is_ infinite.
22:24 laben left 22:26 espadrine left, jack_rabbit left 22:35 RabidGravy left 22:37 geekosaur left 22:39 geekosaur joined 22:40 geekosaur left, geekosaur joined 22:42 amurf joined 22:43 salva left 22:47 amurf left
lizmat packing and decommute& 22:53
skids m: join("", $["a", "b", "c"])
GLRelia ( no output )
camelia rakudo-moar d6bf55: OUTPUT«Cannot convert string to number: base-10 number must begin with valid digits or '.' in '⏏a' (indicated by ⏏)␤ in block <unit> at /tmp/TVzG6okBFY:1␤␤Actually thrown at:␤ in block <unit> at /tmp/TVzG6okBFY:1␤␤»
timotimo m: say $["a", "b", "c"] 22:55
GLRelia rakudo-moar ef6669: OUTPUT«a b c␤»
camelia rakudo-moar d6bf55: OUTPUT«Cannot convert string to number: base-10 number must begin with valid digits or '.' in '⏏a' (indicated by ⏏)␤ in block <unit> at /tmp/GVopRPnZgm:1␤␤Actually thrown at:␤ in block <unit> at /tmp/GVopRPnZgm:1␤␤»
skids I'm actually becoming less sure about whether $ is supposed to protect against single-item-rule or not. I'm supposed to be becoming more sure about things :-) 22:57
Also, whether join is supposed to be one of the "this flattens in sub form" ones. 22:59
23:01 BenGoldberg left
skids wonders if the camelia "problem" is someone turning on GC because those Failures are generated/caught in the num-stringifiction code. 23:02
23:02 BenGoldberg joined
skids m: join("", $["a", "b", "c"]); END { "done".say }; 23:02
GLRelia rakudo-moar ef6669: OUTPUT«done␤»
camelia rakudo-moar d6bf55: OUTPUT«Cannot convert string to number: base-10 number must begin with valid digits or '.' in '⏏a' (indicated by ⏏)␤ in block <unit> at /tmp/5VNbQ4l8dP:1␤␤Actually thrown at:␤ in block <unit> at /tmp/5VNbQ4l8dP:1␤␤done␤»
skids m: join("", $["a", "b", "c"]); "done".say; 23:03
GLRelia rakudo-moar ef6669: OUTPUT«done␤»
camelia rakudo-moar d6bf55: OUTPUT«Cannot convert string to number: base-10 number must begin with valid digits or '.' in '⏏a' (indicated by ⏏)␤ in block <unit> at /tmp/JK3Enb04jn:1␤␤Actually thrown at:␤ in block <unit> at /tmp/JK3Enb04jn:1␤␤»
skids Though wait why would it even...
jdv79 FROGGS: what is b7035eb77588792e in pause all about? 23:05
seems like a bandaid or a misunderstanding maybe?
23:06 lizmat left 23:10 colomon joined
colomon o/ 23:11
Anyone out there? 23:15
23:16 amurf joined
skids o/ 23:17
23:18 pmurias left, colomon left
timotimo i'm here 23:24
23:32 dayangkun joined 23:34 cbk1090 left 23:46 cbk1090 joined
ugexe CURLI bin wrappers are broke on GLR today 23:48
m: my @installations = @*INC.grep( { .starts-with("inst#") } ).map: { CompUnitRepo::Local::Installation.new(PARSE-INCLUDE-SPEC($_).[*-1]) }; say @installations>>.files("foo");
camelia rakudo-moar d6bf55: OUTPUT« ␤»
GLRelia rakudo-moar ef6669: OUTPUT«This Seq has already been iterated, and its values consumed␤ in block <unit> at /tmp/y27osPy3Am:1␤␤»
23:49 davercc left
skids ugexe: grep's slurpy was changed to **@. But I think that missed some necessary accompanyi changes. 23:51
ugexe i figured, noticed some extra emptys ala [$[], $[], $[what i wanted]] that weren't there before. 23:56
skids I'm working on seeing what happens if we change more slurpies, but am seeing conflicting ideas of what the single item rule does WRT containers.

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