»ö« Welcome to Perl 6! | perl6.org/ | evalbot usage: 'p6: say 3;' or rakudo:, or /msg camelia p6: ... | irclog: irc.perl6.org or colabti.org/irclogger/irclogger_logs/perl6 | UTF-8 is our friend!
Set by moritz on 22 December 2015.
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gfldex sena_kun: if we refere to JIT or JVM in the main body, we should have them in the glosary 00:05
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sena_kun gfldex, I'm making a fixing commit now. 00:06
gfldex sena_kun: we use both term, JVM is used quite a bit
sena_kun gfldex, yes, I saw it already. I should be more careful, sorry. 00:08
dalek c: 9302e6f | Altai-man++ | doc/Language/glossary.pod6:
Accidently removed items JIT and JVM were restored
c: 81f35fd | (Zoffix Znet)++ | doc/Language/traps.pod6:
Document exploding sunk Proc trap

There were a few RTs involving.
sena_kun Ah, we have more links to removed items. Aaaaah. Will be fixed soon... 00:10
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gfldex sena_kun: there is `make test-links` 00:14
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gfldex can I say "page break if send to printer" in html? 00:15
jdv79 are we sure that works cause last i looked a lot of links were bad.
gfldex jdv79: it works to some degree. Not all reported links are bad tho. 00:16
jdv79 mostly if not all were in the fragment portion
sena_kun gfldex, ah, thanks, I'll try it next time. I was a bit careless with this PR and now I'm already sorry. 00:17
gfldex sena_kun: it's cool, we can fix it
pod-to-bigpage produces printable output now (for LTA values of printable) 00:18
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dalek c: 712b0c6 | Altai-man++ | doc/Language/glossary.pod6:
Fix dead links on the glossary page
 00:26
P6fr m: my @t = "bla blo blu".words 00:27
camelia ( no output )
P6fr m: my @t = "bla blo blu".words.say
camelia rakudo-moar d789da: OUTPUT«(bla blo blu)␤»
P6fr m: my @t = "bla blo blu".words.say[0] 00:28
camelia rakudo-moar d789da: OUTPUT«(bla blo blu)␤»
sena_kun Okay, now it seems quite better. 00:29
P6fr m: my @t = "bla blo blu".words.say;say "hello @t[0].tc;
camelia rakudo-moar d789da: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>␤Unable to parse expression in double quotes; couldn't find final '"' ␤at <tmp>:1␤------> 3 blo blu".words.say;say "hello @t[0].tc;7⏏5<EOL>␤ expecting any of:␤ method arguments␤»
P6fr m: my @t = "bla blo blu".words.say;say "hello @t[0].tc";
camelia rakudo-moar d789da: OUTPUT«(bla blo blu)␤hello True.tc␤»
P6fr m: my @t = "bla blo blu".words.say;say "hello @t[1].tc"; 00:30
camelia rakudo-moar d789da: OUTPUT«(bla blo blu)␤Use of uninitialized value @t of type Any in string context␤Any of .^name, .perl, .gist, or .say can stringify undefined things, if needed. in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤hello .tc␤»
P6fr m: my @t = "bla blo blu".words;say "hello @t[1].tc";
camelia rakudo-moar d789da: OUTPUT«hello blo.tc␤»
P6fr hum ?
why .tc is not evalue
m: my @t = "bla blo blu".words;say "hello @t.tc[0]"; 00:31
camelia rakudo-moar d789da: OUTPUT«hello @t.tc[0]␤»
gfldex m: my @t = "bla blo blu".words;say "hello {@t[1].tc}";
camelia rakudo-moar d789da: OUTPUT«hello Blo␤»
P6fr haaaa
thx :D
i learn p6
small tutorial in french 00:32
no traduction :(
gfldex P6fr: it may be faster to learn english then Perl 6 00:33
P6fr both are languages 00:34
it's the same
gfldex P6fr: the printed version of docs.perl6.org is 444 pages A4. I'm quite sure you get English on less then that. 00:35
P6fr maybe 00:36
geekosaur you can however define a "basic perl6" aka basic English
can do quite a lot without knowing the full details of hypers, without even looking at junctions, etc.
unmatched} m: my @t = "bla blo blu".words;say "hello @t[1].tc()"; 00:37
camelia rakudo-moar d789da: OUTPUT«hello Blo␤»
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unmatched} m: my @t = "bla blo blu".words;say "hello &tc(@t[1])"; 00:38
geekosaur s/aka/á la/
camelia rakudo-moar d789da: OUTPUT«hello Blo␤»
geekosaur sheesh
geekosaur has had A Day
P6fr This is a good exercise to learn English learning Perl. There is little documentation in French and it motivates me to go to chat , English forum. 00:39
geekosaur (also the flip side: no way you describe all of English in 450 pages)
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P6fr why &tc() "&" unmatched} pls ? 00:43
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geekosaur it can't recognize arbitrary expressions unless you enclose them in braces. it does recognize sigils, so & works to tell it a sub name follows 00:46
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P6fr m: say "hello tc(@t[0])" 00:49
camelia rakudo-moar d789da: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>␤Variable '@t' is not declared␤at <tmp>:1␤------> 3say "hello tc(7⏏5@t[0])"␤»
P6fr hum ok
m: my @t = "bla blo blu".words;say "hello tc(@t[1])"; 00:50
camelia rakudo-moar d789da: OUTPUT«hello tc(blo)␤»
P6fr ok ok
gfldex P6fr: see docs.perl6.org/language/quoting#In...lation:_qq
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P6fr thx :-) 00:52
i don't look "&" 00:53
i search
the & to force evaluation ok 00:55
dalek c: e7200ea | (Wenzel P. P. Peppmeyer)++ | doc/Language/quoting.pod6:
doc & and subscripts in quoting constructs
 01:00
P6fr you use prompt and \n or, say + get ? 01:01
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dalek c: f81097c | (Wenzel P. P. Peppmeyer)++ | doc/Language/quoting.pod6:
add & interpolation to index
 01:02
jdv79 prompt fir stdin and say for stdout.
*for
most normally, perhaps 01:03
nebg is there a perl equivalent of the python module called "scapy" ?
jdv79 wut is that?
and do you mean perl 5 or 6? 01:04
nebg jdv79, both
P6fr perhaps ?
jdv79 maybe
P6fr what is it
what it is sorry 01:05
jdv79 perhaps is just a more british way of saying maybe
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jdv79 is bored with maybe 01:05
P6fr haaaa ok lol
jdv79 :)
though im not british
ccube where is the Compunit class documented? 01:06
jdv79 look in src/core/?
ccube okay
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nebg i need a perl6 library for reading and writing packets to an interface or to a libpcap-formatted file. 01:17
unmatched} P6fr: `say` is mostly for short stuff meant for humans. Use `put` to print to STDOUT. See examples of how `say` abridges large output: docs.perl6.org/routine/say#sub_say 01:18
P6fr merci 01:19
unmatched} nebg: check the ecosystem: modules.perl6.org/ If not there you can either write one or use a Perl 5 module (through Inline::Perl5 interop) I'm sure CPAN has something or other for that: metacpan.org/
De rien 01:20
P6fr ok
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nebg unmatched}, ok what about raw socket programming ? is there a standard or famous module for perl6 ? 01:21
unmatched} nebg: Perl 6 has those as core types. There's IO::Socket, IO::Socket::INET, IO::Socket::Async 01:22
huggable: IO::Socket::Async
huggable unmatched}, Asynchronous TCP socket: docs.perl6.org/type/IO::Socket::Async
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P6fr good night ! 01:22
unmatched} night
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jdv79 unmatched}: you speak french? 01:27
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unmatched} jdv79: no, but I live in Canada :) (We have dual official languages: English/French) 01:35
(some things rub off)
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jdv79 but youre in ontario not quebec. which is why i was confused. 01:47
ok....
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ShimmerFairy question: if I have a sub C in module A::B, under what conditions can I refer to it as A::B::C? Or do I need to (perhaps redundantly) name it sub A::B::C ? 01:58
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unmatched} Yeah, but all the packaging has both languages. Plus there are some bilingual people at work :) 02:00
Plus I *wanted* to learn French, as a job skill, but somehow managed to learn Perl 6 instead :P 02:02
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zacts hi perl6 02:08
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unmatched} \o 02:24
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Herby_ Evening, everyone! 02:34
o/
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dalek osystem: 3c65f32 | (Wenzel P. P. Peppmeyer)++ | META.list:
add Pod::To::BigPage
 02:39
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unmatched} \o 02:46
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unmatched} .tell tbrowder Not sure if it has any relevance to your table Pod work, but just thought I'd mention this old ticket I came across about =paras in tables: rt.perl.org/Ticket/Display.html?id...et-history 02:47
yoleaux unmatched}: I'll pass your message to tbrowder.
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zacts how do you organically evolve a language with a specification? 02:57
I think it's cool how organic Perl6 is, yet it still has a specification 02:58
how was / is it done?
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gfldex the spec is actually a looooong list of tests. If you want to add a feature, you write a test, implement the feature and send 2 PRs to the roast and rakudo repos 03:00
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gfldex before rakudo there where pugs, a compiler written in heskel, and std.pm, a parser written in Perl 5. 03:02
so the language formed by having something that could execute the tests in roast 03:03
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gfldex zacts: does that answer your question? 03:07
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geekosaur well, historically that was not quite true. the language started out having a "spec" which went through several stages of development; you can see this phase at design.perl6.org/. The Apocalypses stated the original intentions, without going to the level of specification; the Synopses were the ultimate result and the original "spec" 03:12
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geekosaur but as time went on it was decided that the actual specification would be the tests, so there would be a direct expression of whether an implementation was actually a valid Perl 6 (i.e. can it run the tests?). 03:13
partly because over time the implementations and synopses drifted apart, as people changed one but not the other 03:14
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geekosaur (historical implementations included pugs and niecza) 03:14
unmatched} mumbles something about the whirlpool method 03:15
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AlexDaniel we need language/history 03:25
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zacts gfldex: oh cool yes thanks 03:32
so the spec is the test suite kind of thing
reminds me of this old ruby project 03:33
RubySpec
or something
github.com/ruby/spec 03:35
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MasterDuke .tell AlexDaniel rough initial attempt at getting benchable to zoom the graph in on performance changes, github.com/MasterDuke17/bisectbot/...da494a2676 03:39
yoleaux MasterDuke: I'll pass your message to AlexDaniel.
AlexDaniel . 03:40
yoleaux 03:39Z <MasterDuke> AlexDaniel: rough initial attempt at getting benchable to zoom the graph in on performance changes, github.com/MasterDuke17/bisectbot/...da494a2676
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AlexDaniel MasterDuke: cool! 03:47
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MasterDuke AlexDaniel: it's a little difficult to test without having all the builds (and i'm on my laptop now so definitely not going to build them), so any testing would be much appreciated 03:53
AlexDaniel sure
zacts gfldex: do the specs auto generate the doc via Perl6 POD or something? 03:55
parabolize zacts: docs source is here: github.com/perl6/doc it has a Makefile 03:56
AlexDaniel MasterDuke: oh! git rev-list --bisect
MasterDuke: I didn't know that
MasterDuke just found out about it myself yesterday
zacts cool thanks 03:57
parabolize zacts: some of the tests in roast do have pods but I think they were used for design.perl.org rather than the docs
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AlexDaniel MasterDuke: testing on #whateverable 04:07
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tom99 hey, does anybody know if perl6 is faster better or cleaner than perl5? 04:51
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parabolize no, maybe, yes 04:52
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tom99 ok 04:54
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tom99 i read a long post from larry wall about why perl6 is so awesome 04:58
but most of it went over my head
zhmylove tom99: just like a perl6 cache :) 05:00
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zhmylove tom99: and at the current time perl6 is much more slower than perl5. But p6 has a lot of kind features. 05:01
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ufobat good morning :-) 05:57
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moritz \o 06:46
tom99 moritz 06:50
what's up
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timotimo o/ 06:56
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DrForr perlpilot: It's not there due to not being ready for primetime, though I might add it tonight. 07:54
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timotimo Prancer? 07:56
DrForr Nod.
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sjn Good *, #perl6 :) 08:23
DrForr 'allo! 08:25
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DrForr I'm sure there's at least one module we're distributing with rakudo - Can someone name one for my test suite? 08:53
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psch DrForr: Test? 08:56
DrForr Ah, thanks. brain was seized there for a moment. 08:57
Ironic considering I'm writing grammar tests :)
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nine DrForr: There's also NativeCall and its submodules and CompUnit::Repository::Staging as a recent addition. 09:15
DrForr 'Test' will do. I don't need it to have a stable interface, I just need something that I can rely on to be in the core distro. 09:16
The parser still dynamically loads modules, so when testing 'use Module::Name' I need one that exists in core. The API isn't important. 09:17
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grondilu hello from my vacations :-) 10:28
DrForr Why are you online then? :) 10:30
iH2O u in vacations on the Cayman islands' beach with 2 mistress and a glass of rum
mistresses 10:31
grondilu just wanted to give my phone IRC client a try. Also, slightly bored. weather getting better though 10:32
will probably head to swimming pool.
iH2O beware sharks 10:34
unmatched} zhmylove: saying Perl 6 is "much slower" than Perl 5 is not a great thing to tell people. It's not true in many cases, but worst of all it doesn't tell people *why* they can notice slower performance or what we're doing about it. It's best to link to the FAQ entry for such questions: docs.perl6.org/language/faq.html#I...gh_for_me? 10:35
grondilu there are sharks in the Reunion island where I usually go but this year I'm near Arcachon, France.
unmatched} We've nearly doubled the speed since April and the gains are even more extreme since Christmas. "much slower" doesn't capture the entire picture. 10:36
iH2O hmm. is there a "goto" now?
unmatched} no
iH2O :( 10:37
why is it that difficult to implement?
grondilu do we have some kind of an "official" performance test bench?
unmatched} What makes you think that's the reason for it not being in Perl 6?
iH2O O_O
im puzzled
is that a conspiracy :-P 10:38
an anti-goto conspiracy
unmatched} grondilu: Tux regularly runs tests. There's a link to nice charts and everything, but I forget what it is.
DrForr iH2O: Just because it's not been done yet doesn't mean it's hard/impossible. There are many things that aren't done.
iH2O goto is the scapegoat of all evil 10:40
grondilu looked at ROADMAP A
and noticed it's kind of old
unmatched} grondilu: the link to nice charts was posted on one of the recent weeklies or you can search the #perl6-dev IRC logs for "test-t". Since April the bench went from ~12 seconds to below 8
grondilu 2015-09-27
sorry 2015-07-26 10:41
jnthn goto in Perl 6 is challenging because it involves non-local control flow, fwiw. :) 10:42
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iH2O esp when you jump into the middle of a for loop 10:42
or into the middle of foreign code :-P 10:43
psch yeah, the bits of our CX handling i'm starting to understand makes me think goto is somewhat terrifying
iH2O: well, you'd probably need a label there already to jump to it
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iH2O C has longjmp/setjmp which are more general than goto 10:47
ive never heard of anybody using that, not even in a lifetime
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jast I believe it's often used for implementing coroutines 10:49
jnthn It's used in MoarVM :) 10:50
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DrForr Continuation-based servers in general as well. 10:50
iH2O i stand corrected... 10:51
dalek href="https://perl6.org:">perl6.org: c95d631 | (Steve Mynott)++ | source/ (2 files):
bump Rakudo Star to 2016.07
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Psy-Q hmm 11:00
i think perl6 will at some point reach self-awareness and usher in the singularity
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stmuk rakudo.org/2016/07/22/announce-raku...e-2016-07/ 11:11
iH2O i just downloaded it 11:12
perl6 has huge potential once it ushers into the noncult 11:14
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unmatched} weeeeee \o/ stmuck++ 11:16
I encourage everyone to advertise the new release all over the place.
Will anyone be posting an announcement on blogs.perl.org? 11:17
iH2O why dont u folks use xz instead of gz for rakudo star distribution 11:24
unmatched} I can do it. Just don't want to double-post if someone already is. It's a pretty trafficed blog
iH2O it compresses 25%_ beter
Psy-Q weekend project will be porting a script from bash to perl6 that you can use to stream from a swiss "cloud TV service" 11:25
stmuk unmatched: more publicity the better! please do
unmatched} Sweet. Will do.
Psy-Q i'll find out everything about spawning and controlling processes, i guess
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stmuk www.reddit.com/r/perl/comments/4u2...se_201607/ 11:36
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P6fr m: my $i = 1; my $var = "name"~$i; my $$var = "toto1"; say "$name1"; 11:44
camelia rakudo-moar d789da: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>␤Cannot declare a variable by indirect name (use a hash instead?)␤at <tmp>:1␤------> 3my $i = 1; my $var = "name"~$i; my $7⏏5$var = "toto1"; say "$name1";␤»
P6fr ? 11:45
m: my $i = 1; my $var = "name"~$i; my &$var = "toto1"; say "$name1";
camelia rakudo-moar d789da: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>␤Cannot declare a variable by indirect name (use a hash instead?)␤at <tmp>:1␤------> 3my $i = 1; my $var = "name"~$i; my &7⏏5$var = "toto1"; say "$name1";␤»
jnthn Like the error says, you can't declare a variable with a dynamic name in Perl 6. 11:48
You can access existing variables by name using ::(...)
m: my $x1 = 42; my $x2 = 99; say ::('$x' ~ <1 2>.pick) for ^5 11:49
camelia rakudo-moar d789da: OUTPUT«99␤99␤99␤99␤99␤»
jnthn What're the odds...
m: my $x1 = 42; my $x2 = 99; say ::('$x' ~ <1 2>.pick) for ^5
camelia rakudo-moar d789da: OUTPUT«99␤99␤42␤99␤99␤»
jnthn heh :)
jnthn goes out to buy a lottery ticket :P
psch m: my $x; BEGIN $x = "foo"; sub term:[$x] is rw { $ }; foo = "bar"; say foo
P6fr hello jnthn :)
camelia rakudo-moar d789da: OUTPUT«WARNINGS for <tmp>:␤Useless use of $x in sink context (lines 1, 1)␤bar␤»
P6fr :: ?
psch the sink warning is kinda wrong i guess 11:50
jnthn psch: Decidedly.
jast I know what the odds are! :P
jnthn Reminds of you :: in packages
P6fr ok 11:51
jnthn In general though, Perl 6 really wants to know what is in a lexical scope at compile time. It uses this for a bunch of error checking and optimization. 11:53
P6fr m: my $i = 1; my $name1 = bla; say ::('$name'~'$i') 11:54
camelia rakudo-moar d789da: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>␤Undeclared routine:␤ bla used at line 1␤␤»
P6fr m: my $i = 1; my $name1 = bla; say ::("$name"~"$i") 11:55
camelia rakudo-moar d789da: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>␤Variable '$name' is not declared. Did you mean '$name1'?␤at <tmp>:1␤------> 3my $i = 1; my $name1 = bla; say ::("7⏏5$name"~"$i")␤»
jnthn You need single quotes, otherwise $name will try to be interpolated in the double quotes
P6fr m: my $i = 1; my $name1 = bla; say ::('&$name'~'$i') 11:56
camelia rakudo-moar d789da: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>␤Undeclared routine:␤ bla used at line 1␤␤»
P6fr ok
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P6fr m: my $i = 1; my $name1 = bla; say ::({'$name'~'$i'}) 11:57
camelia rakudo-moar d789da: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>␤Undeclared routine:␤ bla used at line 1␤␤»
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P6fr m: my $i = 1; my $name1 = bla; say ::("$name$i") 11:59
camelia rakudo-moar d789da: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>␤Variable '$name' is not declared. Did you mean '$name1'?␤at <tmp>:1␤------> 3my $i = 1; my $name1 = bla; say ::("7⏏5$name$i")␤»
P6fr ok
hum
It must be a possibility
jnthn m: my $i = 1; my $name1 = 'bla'; say ::('$name'~'$i')
camelia rakudo-moar d789da: OUTPUT«No such symbol '$name$i'␤ in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤Actually thrown at:␤ in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤»
jnthn m: my $i = 1; my $name1 = 'bla'; say ::('$name'~$i) 12:00
camelia rakudo-moar d789da: OUTPUT«bla␤»
P6fr haaaa yes im stupid
thx
jnthn np
lunch &
P6fr im going to work 12:01
(i leave in france)
i live :(
RabidGravy :) 12:02
P6fr good day !
RabidGravy I'm sitting on the sofa wondering which of the squillion un-finished modules I should work on
I need the world to become more boring for a week or two 12:03
12:03 P6fr left 12:04 DrForr joined 12:08 alberg left
[Coke] jdv79: sri ran himself out here. Calm down. 12:08
I chatted with him after he left. I got the impression, no hard feelings, he just didn't want to talk about perl 6 anymore. 12:10
12:15 huggable left, huggable joined
[Coke] (the calm down being aimed at you from HOURS ago so of course no longer relevant! whoops) 12:15
12:17 adu joined
unmatched} posted release announcement on blogs.perl.org blogs.perl.org/users/zoffix_znet/20...01607.html 12:17
nine ShimmerFairy: the sub must be our scoped (defaults to my) 12:21
ShimmerFairy ah, thanks :) 12:22
ufobat hi [Coke] :)
[Coke], i guess you were right, the v6.c was in it because of supporting old versions 12:23
is it a good idea just to have "latest" in it? 12:24
gfldex unmatched}: perl6.org needs to be updated with release info as well 12:27
unmatched} unmatched}: at which place?
12:28 abraxxa left
gfldex unmatched}: Home the box at the top links to 2016.04 12:28
nine 2016.04? That's ancient! 12:29
hahainternet can you smartmatch against a seq? maybe I'm doing something dumb
but wanted to do for example 1024 ~~ 1,2,4,8...*
unmatched} gfldex: which box at the top? On the homepage? Links to .07 for me.
Psy-Q a friend asked how suitable perl 6 might be for larger-scale projects with multiple authors. i said "surely no less suited than perl 5 was", but i'm thinking it's surely better-suited/
that sentence was supposed to end with "?"
hahainternet Psy-Q: it's got strong typing, so significantly better suited 12:30
gfldex unmatched}: i just hit the reload button and it's fine. sorry for the confusion
hahainternet (it also permits traits instead of monkey patching, so SIGNIFICANTLY better)
unmatched} No problem.
Psy-Q hahainternet: awesome, i'll tell him. he likes strongly typed languages :D
gfldex hahainternet: you may have to Junction the Seq
hahainternet gfldex: aaah of course
psch why not just (elem)? 12:31
m: my @a = ^10; my $seq = Seq.new(@a.iterator); say 5 (elem) $seq
camelia rakudo-moar d789da: OUTPUT«True␤»
hahainternet interesting, i'm rebuilding rakudo atm so can't test
moritz m: say 5 (elem) ^10
camelia rakudo-moar d789da: OUTPUT«True␤»
psch was just being overly explicit about the Seq
moritz m: say 5 (elem) (^10).seq 12:32
camelia rakudo-moar d789da: OUTPUT«Method 'seq' not found for invocant of class 'Range'␤ in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤»
moritz m: say 5 (elem) (^10).Seq
camelia rakudo-moar d789da: OUTPUT«Method 'Seq' not found for invocant of class 'Range'␤ in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤»
hahainternet hmm, all i get is (...) output when combined with the sequence construct stuff 12:33
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hahainternet still building new version though and I might be doing something idiotic 12:33
unmatched} m: say -Inf...Inf
camelia rakudo-moar d789da: OUTPUT«(...)␤»
unmatched} m: say 4...5
camelia rakudo-moar d789da: OUTPUT«(4 5)␤»
hahainternet i guess you can't smartmatch against a non terminating sequence?
i thought that was a 'range' though
12:34 kid51 left
unmatched} m: say 5 (elem) 1...Inf 12:34
camelia rakudo-moar d789da: OUTPUT«(...)␤»
unmatched} Interesting
m: say 5 (elem) (1...Inf)
psch m: my $s = 1, 2, 4 ... *; say 8 (elem) eager $s # heh
camelia rakudo-moar d789da: OUTPUT«(signal SEGV)»
rakudo-moar d789da: OUTPUT«(timeout)»
unmatched} m: say 5 (elem) (1...Inf)
psch the SEGV was mine 12:35
unmatched} Ah
camelia rakudo-moar d789da: OUTPUT«(timeout)»
unmatched} hahainternet: it's a bit of a strange construct you got there. Effectivly, you're asking for a Yes or No answer, where a No answer leads to your program hanging. 12:36
psch m: my $s = 1, 2, 4 ... *; say eager $s
camelia rakudo-moar d789da: OUTPUT«(signal SEGV)»
psch neat
j: my $s = 1, 2, 4 ... *; say eager $s
hahainternet unmatched}: indeed, but there are cases where it'd be detectable
so for example 3 (elem) 1,2,4...*
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camelia rakudo-jvm cd19db: OUTPUT«␤(timeout)␤» 12:36
hahainternet sequence only increases, and 2 < 3 < 4 12:37
ah well
psch well, yeah, with some introspection that could probably work
the last one
hahainternet i wonder how the subset works because i thought you could define an infinite subset
maybe not
psch as in, when we know we have a derived generator function
hahainternet i appreciate there's an awful lot of complexity hre
jast if you start adding magic like that, you run the risk that you won't always be sure whether it terminates. not a good thing to abstract away...
hahainternet indeed, and it's not a dumb idea to terminate these seqs 12:38
unmatched} m: say 1, 2, 4 ... * < 10
camelia rakudo-moar d789da: OUTPUT«(1)␤»
unmatched} m: say (1, 2, 4 ... * < 10)
camelia rakudo-moar d789da: OUTPUT«(1)␤»
12:38 mcmillhj joined
unmatched} huh 12:38
hahainternet what i was trying to say is "is this value a common power of 2"
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hahainternet which i can do by just limiting the seq to pow(2,64) 12:38
unmatched} hahainternet: isn't using logarithms a much better approach than generating a possibly huge sec? 12:39
hahainternet unmatched}: in terms of performance, sure 12:40
in terms of succinct description? lol no
if you're using Perl 6 for performance you've probably lost already :)
unmatched} m: sub p { log($^a)/log(2) %% 1 }; say p $_ for 4, 3, 256, 128, 42
camelia rakudo-moar d789da: OUTPUT«True␤False␤True␤True␤False␤»
unmatched} There's a shorter way to write that too. I forget the function name. 12:41
hahainternet probably logdivmodthing :p
but no it's fine, i know what i chose was inefficient
psch i'd prefer that function with a meaningful name (and maybe a line of doc) to generating a Seq, i think 12:42
unmatched} OK :)
hahainternet but i want to understand the limits of expression in p6
psch also, if you have an infinite lazy Seq you have to partition parts of it anyway, which blows up your "succint" way of checking for membership
hahainternet well $a (elem) @b is very very succinct 12:43
so i was just playing with that concept
jnthn unmatched}: polymod maybe? 12:44
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unmatched} Nah, still log, but in method form: 12:45
m: sub p { $^a.log(2) %% 1 }; say p $_ for 4, 3, 256, 128, 42
camelia rakudo-moar d789da: OUTPUT«True␤False␤True␤True␤False␤»
psch hahainternet: right, but you have to do something like "my @part-of-b = @b[$low...$high]; $a (elem) @part-of-b; ($low,$high) [X+]= $high + 1, $high - $low" instead, if you want to be able to bail 12:46
unmatched} Well.. with additional argument I guess, 'cuase this works too
m: sub p { log($^a,2) %% 1 }; say p $_ for 4, 3, 256, 128, 42
camelia rakudo-moar d789da: OUTPUT«True␤False␤True␤True␤False␤»
psch well, minus little arithmetic error i made there :P 12:47
+the
hahainternet psch: no i don't disagree at all
i'm not saying that what i wanted was smart or good
was just playing about :)
psch i didn't think you were disagreeing, just wanted to elaborate how i'd do this if i was bend on using (elem) against a Seq :) 12:48
hahainternet :) 12:49
yeah that is the better way to do it for sure
< 8 mins to build rakudo on slow machine still
very nice
12:49 colomon left
hahainternet going to be hilarious when i replace this machine with some intel extreme edition processor 12:49
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unmatched} It'd likely won't improve much :) 12:50
psch also, can i just say i really dig how [] grouping allows messing with metaop assign
hahainternet unmatched}: lets check on a 3770k a little bit overclocked
with a moderate root ssd, only an 850 pro or so 12:51
psch like the [X+]= above, or [R//]= which is just awesome
hahainternet ooh, R//?
roll up defined? something like that?
unmatched} Reverse
psch R is metaop reverse
hahainternet aaah
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psch m: my $x = "foo"; my $b; $x [R//]= $b; say $x; $b = "bar"; $x [R//]= $b; say $x 12:52
camelia rakudo-moar d789da: OUTPUT«foo␤bar␤»
psch that's just great imo
equivalent to '$x = $b // $x', which is a thing that damian wanted in his talk iirc 12:53
although i totally get not throwing [R//]= at people that want to learn why they might want to learn Perl 6 :
:)
unmatched} :D
m: sub infix:<♥> { $^a ~ $^b }; say [R♥] 'Perl 6', 'Love '; 12:54
camelia rakudo-moar d789da: OUTPUT«Love Perl 6␤»
unmatched} ^_^
m: sub infix:<♥> { $^a ~ $^b }; say [RRRRR♥] 'Perl 6', 'Love '; 12:55
camelia rakudo-moar d789da: OUTPUT«Love Perl 6␤»
DrForr Incidentally the test suite parses the infix:<♥> construct.
unmatched} I don't see it 12:56
Everything that shows up for grep -R '♥' gist.github.com/zoffixznet/52728fa...ba7c6e96e5 12:57
psch m: say "Perl 6" R[&({ [R[&infix:<~>]] $^b, " ", $^a })] "Love" 12:58
camelia rakudo-moar d789da: OUTPUT«Love Perl 6␤»
unmatched} :D
psch++
psch m: [R[&say]] "Perl 6" R[&({ [R[&infix:<~>]] $^b, " ", $^a })] "Love" # why stop there?! 12:59
camelia rakudo-moar d789da: OUTPUT«Love Perl 6␤»
parabolize how do you uninstall a old version of a module with zef? `zef uninstall "DBIish:ver('0.5.8')"` is giving me a error 13:00
dalek c: 968bad5 | (Wenzel P. P. Peppmeyer)++ | META.info:
add Pod::To::BigPage as dependency
 13:01
13:01 Actualeyes left
hahainternet 2 min 56 secs 13:01
to build moar
on an actual machine that's fast
13:02 sufrostico left
jnthn Rakudo moar or just MoarVM itself? 13:02
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nine Sounds very much like a full rakudo to me 13:06
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lucasb_ hello o/ 13:13
DrForr Aftenoon.
lucasb_ I think I may have found a segfault, but it only works in the REPL 13:14
can someone confirm it for me?
type this in the standard REPL:
"abc".starts-with(42 does role { method Str { 42 } })
psch heh 13:15
a .Str that returns an Int is a neat infloop i suppose 13:16
although, yeah, that should just eat all your mem and not segfault
unmatched} m: "abc".starts-with(42 does role { method Str { 42 } })
camelia rakudo-moar d789da: OUTPUT«Memory allocation failed; could not allocate 81920 bytes␤»
lucasb_ psch: so it does segfault in your repl too?
unmatched} doesn't wanna try :) 13:17
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psch i don't have moar build actually 13:17
i usually don't build it at all vOv
perlpilot lucasb_: how long does it take to segfault?
lucasb_ perlpilot: instantly
unmatched} I actually get "This type cannot unbox to a native string: P6opaque, Int+{<anon|90832064>}"
2016.06-10-g7cff429 built on MoarVM version 2016.06
lucasb_ if its not the repl, then it seems too consumes lots of memory, then I kill it
perlpilot lucasb_: it does not do that for me. It sits there doing nothing.
This is Rakudo version 2016.07.1-23-gb519088 built on MoarVM version 2016.07-3-gc01472d 13:18
lucasb_ perlpilot: ok, thanks for testing :)
unmatched} Sits there doing nothing for me on 2016.07.1-12-g58dc8c6 built on MoarVM version 2016.07 too
lucasb_ This is Rakudo version 2016.07 built on MoarVM version 2016.07
perlpilot and, yes, it's slowly eating all my RAM :) 13:20
lucasb_ anyway... I was justing testing that a subroutine signature of 'sub f(A(B) $x)' actually enforced that the argument was of type of A, but it doesn't seems to enforce it
I mean, method A in class B can return whatever it wants... no need to be type of A 13:21
psch how did you conclude that if the snippet dies?
lucasb_ psch: that was another snippet... let me paste something here :)
psch oh, sure 13:22
lucasb_ m: class C { method Int { 'oh hai' } }; sub f(Int(C) $x) { say $x.WHAT }; f(C.new) 13:23
camelia rakudo-moar d789da: OUTPUT«(Str)␤»
dalek c: 0676896 | (Wenzel P. P. Peppmeyer)++ | META.info:
put dependency in the right spot
psch ah, neat
i suppose that's a bit too trusting in implementation :) 13:24
i mean, i too would generally trust that coercer methods actually coerce to the type they are named after, but the language probably should check
gfldex is the type check in :(Str $s) calling ACCEPTS? 13:25
psch gfldex: no, it's (eventually) doing nqp::istype()
gfldex: the (moar) Binder sits in src/Perl6/Metamodel/BOOTSTRAP.nqp, bind_one_param the specific function to look at here 13:26
lucasb_ yeah, idk if it's clear if it should enforce or not (i.e., it's programmer problem, not a compiler problem). Just like in Ruby, when classes define a 'to_s' method that doesn't return strings
perlpilot lucasb_: good bug find.
lucasb_: It should enforce.
psch lucasb_: the Binder definitely should enforce it
lucasb_: i don't think we can enforce the return type of overwritten methods though :) 13:27
so forcing people to only write "method Int" that actually returns Int is probably out (in sensible ways at least)
gfldex m: class C { method Int { Nil } }; sub f(Int(C) $x) { say $x.WHAT }; f(C.new)
camelia rakudo-moar d789da: OUTPUT«Nil␤»
gfldex what should happen in that case?
perlpilot Or ... from S02:590: The type outside the parens indicates the desired end result, and subsequent code may depend on it being that type. 13:28
synopsebot6 Link: design.perl6.org/S02.html#line_590
psch m: sub f(Int $) { }; f Nil
camelia rakudo-moar d789da: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>␤Calling f(Nil) will never work with declared signature (Int)␤at <tmp>:1␤------> 3sub f(Int $) { }; 7⏏5f Nil␤»
perlpilot (yes, I know those are specifications, but they are the design from which the spec sprung)
gfldex some elaborate coercion may have no choice but return Nul
psch m: say Nil.isa(Int)
camelia rakudo-moar d789da: OUTPUT«False␤»
psch gfldex: so it's a dispatch failure, just like now? 13:29
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gfldex as long as the run time error can be caught with try, it can be handled i guess 13:31
psch m: sub f(Int $) { }; try f Nil
camelia rakudo-moar b89bf9: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>␤Calling f(Nil) will never work with declared signature (Int)␤at <tmp>:1␤------> 3sub f(Int $) { }; try 7⏏5f Nil␤»
psch it's a compile time error
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gfldex in that case, but may not be in the coercion type case 13:31
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psch right, that depends on what the coercion method declares as return type 13:32
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psch i'm not really able of thinking of a case where something might sometimes be coerceable but not always 13:32
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psch i also wonder if that shouldn't be handled by the coercer itself, which would let this die before the binder 13:33
gfldex m: sub f(-->Str){ Nil }; say f;
camelia rakudo-moar b89bf9: OUTPUT«Nil␤»
13:34 hanwei_ joined, hanwei_ left
gfldex you never know what some foreign code will return 13:34
psch right, which is why it should be handled as soon as possible, which would probably not be the type check in the Binder, but the coercer 13:35
perlpilot suddenly imagines gfldex speaking in a Forrest Gump voice
psch assuming whatever the foreign code that was called returned is wrapped in the class that should be coerced
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gfldex m: sub f(-->Str:D){ Nil }; say f; # i don't like this 13:38
camelia rakudo-moar b89bf9: OUTPUT«Nil␤»
unmatched} R* announcement in r/programming is doing surprisingly well. 78% upvoted so far: www.reddit.com/r/programming/comme...tribution/
Compared to my usual experience with Perl 6 blogs, where they get actively downvoted by majority :P
perlpilot 89% now :) 13:39
unmatched}
.oO(I guess that says more about my blogs than r/programming :))
13:39 skids joined
perlpilot unmatched}: also ... it's early yet. 13:39
unmatched} :)
13:40 sufrostico joined
gfldex m: sub f(-->Str:D){ Nil }; my Str:D $s = f; say $s; # i don't like this even less 13:44
camelia rakudo-moar b89bf9: OUTPUT«(Str:D)␤»
gfldex Str:D is an undefined defined value 13:45
dalek line-Perl5: 5e3df66 | niner++ | / (3 files):
Inline::Perl5::global for accessing Perl 5's global variables
gfldex m: sub f(-->Str:D){ Nil }; my Str:D $s = f; say $s; $s = Nil; dd $s; 13:46
camelia rakudo-moar b89bf9: OUTPUT«(Str:D)␤Str:D $s = Str:D␤»
gfldex m: sub f(-->Str:D){ Nil }; my Str:D $s = f; say $s; $s = Nil; dd $s.defined; 13:47
camelia rakudo-moar b89bf9: OUTPUT«(Str:D)␤Bool::False␤»
gfldex m: my Int:D $i = Nil; 13:49
camelia ( no output )
dalek c: 96297a3 | cognominal++ | doc/Language/phasers.pod6:
CLOSE phaser
gfldex m: my Int:D $i = Nil; say 1 / $i;
camelia rakudo-moar b89bf9: OUTPUT«Parameter 'de' requires an instance of type Int:D, but a type object was passed. Did you forget a .new?␤ in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤»
perlpilot nine: Does that work for the ${^VARS} too ? (${^MATCH}, ${^PREMATCH}, ${^POSTMATCH}, etc.) 13:50
gfldex m: my Int:D $i is default(Failure.new("undefined value"); $i = Nil; 13:55
camelia rakudo-moar b89bf9: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>␤Cannot use variable $i in declaration to initialize itself␤at <tmp>:1␤------> 3efault(Failure.new("undefined value"); $7⏏5i = Nil;␤ expecting any of:␤ term␤»
gfldex m: my Int:D $i is default(Failure.new("undefined value") = Nil; $i = Nil;
camelia rakudo-moar b89bf9: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>␤Cannot use variable $i in declaration to initialize itself␤at <tmp>:1␤------> 3(Failure.new("undefined value") = Nil; $7⏏5i = Nil;␤ expecting any of:␤ term␤»
lizmat nine: if the $p5 object doesn't do Associative yet, maybe it is an idea to just implement AT-KEY on it, that does a sefl.global() ? 13:56
so you can say $p5<$@> ?
nine perlpilot: doesn't look like it does. Could be because those are only available with use English;
gfldex m: my Str $i is default(Failure.new("undefined value")); 13:57
camelia rakudo-moar b89bf9: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>␤Default value '(HANDLED) undefined value␤ in any at src/Perl6/World.nqp line 2202␤ in any trait_mod:sym<is> at gen/moar/m-Perl6-Actions.nqp line 5059␤ in any trait_mod:sym<is> at src/Perl6/Grammar.…»
nine lizmat: sounds neat but I don't expect most users to actually deal with a $p5 object but just use Net::LDAP:from<Perl5>; ... ; say %*PERL5<$@>;
lizmat nine: ah, ok, I was just inspired by your test case in t/globals.t :-) 13:58
nine lizmat: /win 14
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gfldex m: my Int:D $i = sub f(){Nil}(); my Int:D $j = 1; $j = $i; dd $i; 14:10
camelia rakudo-moar b89bf9: OUTPUT«Type check failed in assignment to $j; expected Int:D but got Int:D␤ in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤»
gfldex LTA
14:11 Ven joined
Ven .tell cognominal medium.com/@octskyward/graal-truff...4d8f28fb69 thought about you :) 14:11
yoleaux Ven: I'll pass your message to cognominal.
14:11 Ven left
gfldex m: my Int:D $i = sub f(){Nil}(); my Int:D $j = $i; dd $i; 14:19
camelia rakudo-moar b89bf9: OUTPUT«Type check failed in assignment to $j; expected Int:D but got Int:D␤ in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤»
14:20 scovit left
ugexe m: package XXX { our &foo is export = -> $a, $b { $a + $b }; our &bar is export = -> $a, $b { foo($a, $b) }; }; import XXX; &foo .= assuming(1); &bar .= assuming(1); say foo(100); say &bar(100); # Can I do something like this where I create lexical copy of XXX::foo and XXX::bar with a default argument without applying to calls within package XXX itself? 14:20
camelia rakudo-moar b89bf9: OUTPUT«101␤Too many positionals passed; expected 1 argument but got 2␤ in sub __PRIMED_ANON at EVAL_2 line 1␤ in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤»
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dalek c: fbb443e | (Wenzel P. P. Peppmeyer)++ | doc/ (2 files):
doc consequences of f(-->Int:D){Nil}
 14:26
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skids m: my Str:D $f; $f.say 14:31
camelia rakudo-moar b89bf9: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>␤Variable definition of type Str:D requires an initializer␤at <tmp>:1␤------> 3my Str:D $f7⏏5; $f.say␤ expecting any of:␤ constraint␤»
14:32 hwcomcn left
skids I'm thinking maybe the "= Nil" behavior should likewise throw, no? 14:32
14:32 hwcomcn joined
skids The reason Nil can be returned from --> Str:D subs is a different matter. 14:32
(having to do with always having an escape route for failure) 14:33
14:33 hwcomcn left
gfldex my guess is that it only checks if there is an initialiser but not if the value is actually defined 14:33
14:33 hwcomcn joined
skids m: my Str:D $f = Str:D; $f.say 14:34
camelia rakudo-moar b89bf9: OUTPUT«Type check failed in assignment to $f; expected Str:D but got Str:D␤ in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤»
gfldex m: sub f(-->Int:D){ return Failure.new("oi!")}; say f();
camelia rakudo-moar b89bf9: OUTPUT«oi!␤ in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤Actually thrown at:␤ in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤»
gfldex m: sub f(-->Int:D){ return Failure.new("oi!")}; my Int:D $i = f(); 14:35
camelia rakudo-moar b89bf9: OUTPUT«Earlier failure:␤ oi!␤ in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤Final error:␤ Type check failed in assignment to $i; expected Int:D but got Failure (Failure.new(exception...)␤ in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤»
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gfldex in my eyes the Failure should blow at the return type check, not at the assignment 14:36
14:36 colomon left 14:38 hwcomcn left
skids I dunno I'm no expert but my inclinantion is that assigning Nil to a :D variable that has no (defined) default should not behave that way. 14:38
dalek c: 4edb119 | (Wenzel P. P. Peppmeyer)++ | doc/Type/Nil.pod6:
fix typo
 14:39
unmatched} There's a ticket for that
skids But maybe the way to fix it is to have them have some sort of poisonous explosive default.
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gfldex unmatched}: if you can find that ticket, could you add a note for github.com/perl6/doc/commit/fbb443ed73 please? 14:40
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skids m: my Str:D $f is default("foo"); $f.say # this seems to work right 14:43
camelia rakudo-moar b89bf9: OUTPUT«foo␤»
14:43 colomon left
unmatched} perlpilot: well, you were right :) It was too early. The reddit post has now devolved to a handfull of idiots making fun of the logo or that /??? docs URL is written as $QUESTION_MARK.... Rather than, you know, the actual language :D 14:44
sammers hello from Japam
skids o/ 14:45
sammers s/Japam/Japan/
unmatched} gfldex: here's the ticket: rt.perl.org/Ticket/Display.html?id...et-history
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gfldex .tell TimToady your judgment on `my Int:D $i = Nil` and `sub f(-->Int:D){Nil}` is required 14:48
yoleaux gfldex: I'll pass your message to TimToady.
14:48 iH2O left
ugexe as a computer janitor im upset at the prospect of having to learn a new language and will be very vocal about it 14:49
unmatched} ugexe++ 14:50
[Coke] I think that has already been judged, gfldex.
dalek c/molecules-patch-1: 2a5474a | (Christopher Bottoms)++ | doc/Language/operators.pod6:
add operator classifications to the Index

In the spirit of github.com/perl6/doc/issues/728, adding operator classifications to the index.		 14:51
[Coke] What's the expected result?
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[Coke] oh, you're posting that here after a discussion elsewhere... catching up... 14:52
gfldex m: sub f(Int:D $i){}; f(Nil);
camelia rakudo-moar b89bf9: OUTPUT«Type check failed in binding $i; expected Int but got Nil (Nil)␤ in sub f at <tmp> line 1␤ in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤»
gfldex i expect the same as in ^^^ 14:53
m: my Int:D $i = Nil; sub f(Int:D $i){}; f($i); 14:55
camelia rakudo-moar b89bf9: OUTPUT«Parameter '$i' requires an instance of type Int:D, but a type object was passed. Did you forget a .new?␤ in sub f at <tmp> line 1␤ in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤»
psch the initializer is special in type smilied cases
seems pretty clearly DIHWIDT to me
but i'm not TimToady and don't expect anyone to just believe me on that :) 14:56
gfldex problem is that $i = Nil and f($i) can be in different modules at opposing sides of the planet. If you don't know that Int:D is by no means a guarantee for definedness you may spend quite some time to figure that on out.
psch don't use underdefined initializers on type smilied constraint variables 14:57
m: my Int:D $x = 0; $x = Nil
camelia ( no output )
psch well, there goes my argument :)
so, yeah, that definitely shouldn't be allowed, gfldex++
14:58 Khisanth left
gfldex at least it's not contagious and will blow on many buildin subs and operators 14:59
arnsholt nqp: my @not-an-array := 1; # Perverse? Surely, you're joking! 15:01
camelia ( no output )
arnsholt nqp: my @not-an-array := 1; nqp::say("alive"); # Perverse? Surely, you're joking!
camelia nqp-moarvm: OUTPUT«alive␤»
psch m: my @not-an-array := 1; say "alive"
camelia rakudo-moar b89bf9: OUTPUT«Type check failed in binding; expected Positional but got Int (1)␤ in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤»
arnsholt nqp: my @not-an-array; @not-an-array := 1; nqp::say("alive"); # What about this one?
camelia nqp-moarvm: OUTPUT«alive␤»
arnsholt Yeah, that's what I thought
psch nqp: my @a; say(nqp::what(@a)) 15:02
camelia nqp-moarvm: OUTPUT«␤»
psch nqp: my @a; say(nqp::how(@a))
camelia nqp-moarvm: OUTPUT«cannot stringify this␤ at gen/moar/stage2/NQPCORE.setting:714 (/home/camelia/rakudo-m-inst-2/share/nqp/lib/NQPCORE.setting.moarvm:join)␤ from gen/moar/stage2/NQPCORE.setting:703 (/home/camelia/rakudo-m-inst-2/share/nqp/lib/NQPCORE.setting.moarvm:say)␤ fr…»
psch nqp: my @a; say(nqp::how(@a).name(nqp::how(@a))
camelia nqp-moarvm: OUTPUT«Confused at line 2, near "say(nqp::h"␤ at gen/moar/stage2/NQPHLL.nqp:706 (/home/camelia/rakudo-m-inst-2/share/nqp/lib/NQPHLL.moarvm:panic)␤ from gen/moar/stage2/NQP.nqp:927 (/home/camelia/rakudo-m-inst-2/share/nqp/lib/nqp.moarvm:comp_unit)␤ from gen/moar…»
psch nqp: my @a; say(nqp::how(@a).name(nqp::how(@a)))
camelia nqp-moarvm: OUTPUT«NQPArray␤»
arnsholt @ and % in NQP are mostly for the user, and their autoviv behaviour when they don't have an assignment with the declaration
psch well, it does know it is an array :)
parabolize ugexe: this seems to work gist.github.com/parabolize/9800f37...f291cbc76c 15:03
psch nqp: my @a := 1; say(nqp::how(@a).name(nqp::how(@a)))
camelia nqp-moarvm: OUTPUT«BOOTInt␤»
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Flying_Squirrel Hi all 15:03
arnsholt psch: If there's no added initializer, it's initialized to nqp::list/nqp:hash (modulo @/%)
psch arnsholt: it seems ok-ish to me, with how we only do binding
perlpilot Flying_Squirrel: greetings
arnsholt Yeah, definitely. I just got to thinking about this and wondered what the exact semantics were
psch yeah, it's an interesting bit of "we elide lots of consistency checks" 15:04
on the nqp level that is
dalek c: b6d8a16 | (Wenzel P. P. Peppmeyer)++ | t/00-load.t:
add test as travis is not showing installed dependencies
Flying_Squirrel while reading about main differences between Perl 5 and 6 I read about the namespaces and I would to find a source that explains why such choices were made. Where shall I start?
arnsholt psch: Yeah. Or alternatively, the semantics of NQP are different from Perl 6 15:05
moritz Flying_Squirrel: what specifically are you refering to, re namespaces? 15:06
gfldex Flying_Squirrel: you may find some exlanations in design.perl6.org/
Flying_Squirrel oh sorry, I'm not quite sure about the keyword : like the symbol before the variable names that is different in Perl 5
moritz Flying_Squirrel: ah, sigils 15:07
Flying_Squirrel: basically, it caused lots of confusion in p5
Flying_Squirrel I thought it was pretty straightforward but I'm still learning, maybe I got it wrong 15:08
moritz Flying_Squirrel: newbies assume that $a[$index] access a variable $a, not @a
15:08 canopus left
Flying_Squirrel moritz: ok 15:08
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gfldex Flying_Squirrel: it got even more confusing when references where involved 15:09
ugexe parabolize++ thats what I needed
Flying_Squirrel gfldex: ah?
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gfldex Flying_Squirrel: perl -e 'my @a; my $b = \@a; $b->[1] = 42; print @$b;' # 42 15:10
unmatched} Now all the newbies get confused about why $a can have a List in it too :P 15:11
gfldex Flying_Squirrel: and that's a simple example
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psch unmatched}: well, it could before, it just was a reference with syntactic overhead 15:12
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travis-ci Doc build failed. Wenzel P. P. Peppmeyer 'add test as travis is not showing installed dependencies' 15:12
travis-ci.org/perl6/doc/builds/146670633 github.com/perl6/doc/compare/4edb1...d8a166e37e
15:12 travis-ci left
gfldex unmatched}: what proves the waterbed theory of confusion 15:12
15:12 travis-ci joined
travis-ci Doc build passed. Christopher Bottoms 'add operator classifications to the Index 15:12
travis-ci.org/perl6/doc/builds/146667157 github.com/perl6/doc/commit/2a5474accb85
15:12 travis-ci left
psch unmatched}: so, again, the same consistency argument applies: the sigil stays the same, even if you have a container container 15:12
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unmatched} psch: Perl 5's sigils also have a consistency argument: $ = one thing; @ = many things; % = named things 15:14
Flying_Squirrel gfldex: so basically in your example, you define an array a, and then a variable b that contains a reference to a (like C pointers ?), then use b to access a and assign a value to hmm.. yup got lost along the way
unmatched} So those trained on that argument now get confused why $ = [one thing|many things|named things] in Perl 6
psch unmatched}: oh, definitely. i'm not arguing against this waterbedding
Flying_Squirrel *got me lost
I'm especially confused with the @$b 15:15
psch Flying_Squirrel: that just means @{$b} ;)
scnr
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unmatched} Flying_Squirrel: cheat sheet: juerd.nl/site.plp/perlcheat I believe the author also has an excellent guide to Perl 5's sigils, though I forget the link. #perl might know it 15:16
Flying_Squirrel unmatched}: thanks
dalek c: 2a5474a | (Christopher Bottoms)++ | doc/Language/operators.pod6:
add operator classifications to the Index

In the spirit of github.com/perl6/doc/issues/728, adding operator classifications to the index.		 15:17
c: 7f939bd | (Christopher Bottoms)++ | doc/Language/operators.pod6:
Merge pull request #741 from perl6/molecules-patch-1

add operator classifications to the Index
harmil Dunno if my last message made it, so: in finding all of the Unicode balanced bracketing characters (goo.gl/4P2kWW) I found an interesting bug in uniname: it sets its parameter to Any :-)
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psch harmil: care to demonstrate? 15:18
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unmatched} huggable: test 15:19
15:19 huggable left
harmil Of course, now I'm trying to come up with the minimal example and it's not repeating. :-) 15:19
timotimo made it home alive
psch harmil: you can also paste your more expansive code on gist.github.com and feed that to camelia
[Coke] anyone see how to change the listening port on Bailador? 15:20
15:20 xinming left
[Coke] found it 15:20
harmil Here's the whole thing (reduced only in the range of codepoints it checks):
m: my @ends; for ^0x00ff -> $i { my $c = try { $i.chr }; next if !$c.defined or $c eq "("; next unless $c ~~ /<:Ps>|<:Pi>/; my $end = :16(uniprop($c, "Bidi_Mirroring_Glyph")); next unless $end.defined; $end = $end.chr; say("'$c' {uniname($c)} ~ '$end' {uniname($end)}") }
camelia rakudo-moar b89bf9: OUTPUT«'[' LEFT SQUARE BRACKET ~ ']' RIGHT SQUARE BRACKET␤'{' LEFT CURLY BRACKET ~ '}' RIGHT CURLY BRACKET␤'«' LEFT-POINTING DOUBLE ANGLE QUOTATION MARK ~ '»' RIGHT-POINTING DOUBLE ANGLE QUOTATION MARK␤»
dalek c: 7e0050e | (Wenzel P. P. Peppmeyer)++ | .travis.yml:
force panda to update module list
15:21 hoelzro joined
harmil Oh, interesting: For me those brace-characters do NOT print! 15:21
recently fixed?
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psch star-m: my @ends; for ^0x00ff -> $i { my $c = try { $i.chr }; next if !$c.defined or $c eq "("; next unless $c ~~ /<:Ps>|<:Pi>/; my $end = :16(uniprop($c, "Bidi_Mirroring_Glyph")); next unless $end.defined; $end = $end.chr; say("'$c' {uniname($c)} ~ '$end' {uniname($end)}") } 15:21
camelia star-m 2016.04: OUTPUT«'[' LEFT SQUARE BRACKET ~ ']' RIGHT SQUARE BRACKET␤'{' LEFT CURLY BRACKET ~ '}' RIGHT CURLY BRACKET␤'«' LEFT-POINTING DOUBLE ANGLE QUOTATION MARK ~ '»' RIGHT-POINTING DOUBLE ANGLE QUOTATION MARK␤»
psch works since 2016.04, apparently :)
unmatched} [Coke]: pass it to baile
[Coke]: github.com/ufobat/Bailador/blob/ma...dor.pm#L90 15:22
harmil I'm on moar 2016.06-9-g8fc21d5
psch harmil: maybe some terminal font hiccup?
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AlexDaniel 𝒄𝒉𝒂𝒎𝒑𝒊𝒐𝒏𝒔 :) 15:43
hmm 15:45
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unmatched} Fair enough :) 15:54
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gfldex unmatched}: after looking at the test however, I have to agree. LWP::Simple depends on the cooperation of the intarwebs. 15:55
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dalek c: 8210e65 | cognominal++ | doc/Language/phasers.pod6:
DOC phaser
 15:55
sammers m: say '1: word, 2: word, 3: word'.subst( / 'word' /, '', :x(1) ); 15:57
camelia rakudo-moar b89bf9: OUTPUT«1: , 2: word, 3: word␤»
sammers hmm
is there a way to delete every occurance exluding the first match?
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sammers m: say '1: word, 2: word, 3: word'.subst( / 'word' /, '', :x(2) ); 15:58
camelia rakudo-moar b89bf9: OUTPUT«1: , 2: , 3: word␤»
unmatched} m: say '1: word, 2: word, 3: word'.subst( / 'word' /, '', :!x(1) );
camelia rakudo-moar b89bf9: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>␤Argument not allowed on negated pair with key 'x'␤at <tmp>:1␤------> 3rd, 3: word'.subst( / 'word' /, '', :!x(7⏏051) );␤»
psch m: say '1: word, 2: word, 3: word'.subst( / 'word' /, '', :nd(2..*) );
camelia rakudo-moar b89bf9: OUTPUT«1: word, 2: , 3: ␤»
dalek c: 8e6e303 | (Wenzel P. P. Peppmeyer)++ | .travis.yml:
we may not want to depend on the internet for tests
sammers cool
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psch alternatively :st, :rd or :th 15:59
or even :nth 16:00
sammers that is great
thanks
psch :nth is probably the most readable if you're not going for the colonpair shorthand
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psch like, :1st, :2nd, :3rd, :4th look neat, but :st(1) kinda doesn't 16:00
gfldex m: say '1: word, 2: word, 3: word'.subst( / 'word' /, '', :nth(2..*) ); 16:01
camelia rakudo-moar b89bf9: OUTPUT«1: word, 2: , 3: ␤»
unmatched} m: say '1: word, 2: word, 3: word'.subst( / 'word' /, '', :2th );
camelia rakudo-moar b89bf9: OUTPUT«1: word, 2: , 3: word␤»
unmatched} XD
psch yeah, it works better in Date.later 16:03
i mean, ':$st where * == 1' is probably something we could put in the sig there, but otoh why bother? :)
the subst sig that is
iH2O ok
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14WAAAB8X Doc build passed. Christopher Bottoms 'succ/pred explanation 16:03
travis-ci.org/perl6/doc/builds/146680935 github.com/perl6/doc/compare/7e005...856953a210
Juerd psch: I find 9 twigils about 6 too many. 16:04
unmatched} heh
psch Juerd: which do you think should leave?
Juerd psch: Everything that isn't used by regular programmers on a regular basis. Let's keep <. ! ^> 16:05
dalek c: 4518bc3 | (Wenzel P. P. Peppmeyer)++ | doc/Type/Str.pod6:
:nth can be Callable
Juerd I'm not very sure about ? because I haven't really seen many uses of it yet.
psch Juerd: why the preference for positional self-declaring over named self-declaring? 16:06
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psch m: my &sub = sub { $^a > 0 ?? &?ROUTINE($^a-1) !! $^a }; # simple ?-twigil example 16:07
camelia ( no output )
psch also ::?CLASS and $?CLASS are rather common
Juerd But : just sounds like a bad idea (at some point, just switch to a formal signature, jeez), < is redundant as it saves 1 character typing, = and * could go through globalish objects.
psch fwiw, i don't really see < as a twigil 16:08
Juerd psch: It's not a preference for one over the other, it's that $^a and $^b are just very useful for tiny subs, whereas anything with named arguments just won't be a tiny sub anyway.
perlpilot_ Juerd: except that sometimes tiny subs want to use names for clarity
psch i don't follow. the calling convention does not dictate the complexity of a sub
Juerd psch: I don't know what < is exactly. It seems ambiguous with the $ variable and the <> postcircumfix, even though a combination of those two makes no sense. 16:09
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Juerd But $<foo> reads like it should be the same as ${'foo'}, not $/{'foo'} 16:09
dalek c: f96c6a1 | Altai-man++ | doc/Language/glossary.pod6:
Dead glossary page links were fixed
Juerd perlpilot_: That's not the kind of tiny that I'd find tiny :)
perlpilot_: I'm thinking of things like routines you pass to sort 16:10
perlpilot_ me too actually :)
Juerd perlpilot_: In which you typically have a single simple expression that involves two arguments
psch m: "foo" ~~ /(.)+/; say @() # is ( a twigil now as well? 16:11
camelia rakudo-moar b89bf9: OUTPUT«([｢f｣ ｢o｣ ｢o｣])␤»
psch that's why i don't think < is a twigil
and yeah, i can see the ${'foo'} instead of $/{'foo'} interpretation, i probably just got too used to it to be bothered by it
gfldex m: say $++, $<>; 16:12
camelia rakudo-moar b89bf9: OUTPUT«0Nil␤»
Juerd gfldex: Every $ is a new one.
psch m: "foo" ~~ /(.)+/; say $<>
camelia rakudo-moar b89bf9: OUTPUT«｢foo｣␤ 0 => ｢f｣␤ 0 => ｢o｣␤ 0 => ｢o｣␤»
Juerd Anyway, I think Perl 6 got too complex in some places, and twigils is one of them. It's okay, it's still a wonderful language even if it takes a bit longer to learn. 16:13
psch well, = and ~ are mostly ignorable
Juerd I don't believe in 'mostly ignorable' if it's syntax.
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psch although that's probably because we don't really have enough working to do things with them yet 16:13
travis-ci Doc build passed. cognominal 'DOC phaser'
travis-ci.org/perl6/doc/builds/146683484 github.com/perl6/doc/compare/dc856...10e654bef1
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psch i mean, messing with %~LANG is really icky still 16:14
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dalek c/molecules-patch-1: 0b82fdd | (Christopher Bottoms)++ | doc/Type/Bool.pod6:
Bool.succ, .pred methods explained (please review)

I first encountered the method "succ" today, and it was a method on Bool. At first I misunderstood it to mean "success", and wondered what type of failure or disaster "pred" stood for. Then I discovered that "succ" means "successor" and "pred" means "predecessor" and that they seem to totally make sense if we think of Bool in terms of it consisting of two possible enums. So, that's what I tried to explain, but I would really l		 16:14
Juerd imho, twigils like = and ~ are the same mistake that non-\w variable names in Perl 5 were.
geekosaur I do wonder if $?... and $*... should really be pseudo-namespaces 16:15
Juerd I would have preferred that.
psch i prefer $? over e.g. COMPILING:: 16:16
perlpilot_ me too
16:16 iH2O left
Juerd The whole uppercase thing is another thing I don't really get. 16:17
If it's already special because of the twigil, then what's the use of the allcaps names...
perlpilot_ reinforcement?
dalek c/molecules-patch-1: 30c2714 | (Christopher Bottoms)++ | doc/Type/Bool.pod6:
formatting tweak
 16:18
Juerd I think it serves to make things ugly, which in turn makes you less likely to want to use them... :P
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travis-ci Doc build passed. Wenzel P. P. Peppmeyer 'we may not want to depend on the internet for tests' 16:18
travis-ci.org/perl6/doc/builds/146684016 github.com/perl6/doc/compare/8210e...6e30359105
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travis-ci Doc build failed. Christopher Bottoms 'Bool.succ, .pred methods explained (please review) 16:22
travis-ci.org/perl6/doc/builds/146688481 github.com/perl6/doc/commit/0b82fdd937c8
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[Coke] another Bailador question: I have post '' => sub { say request.body } - I hit the post, I see a single line in the log file indicating that it's being hit; no output is generated. Any pointers? 16:31
16:32 darutoko joined 16:33 Herby_ joined
Herby_ o/ 16:33
Question: How do I get a multiline input from the terminal? Poking around the perl6 docs, 'get' and 'prompt' seem to terminate when enter is hit 16:34
[Coke] Ah. in mojo, an empty route string matches everything; had to change it from '' to /.*/
How would you know when to stop getting input? 16:35
psch m: my @lines = get() xx 3; .say for @lines
camelia rakudo-moar b89bf9: OUTPUT«Céad slán ag sléibhte maorga Chontae Dhún na nGall␤Agus dhá chéad slán ag an Eireagal ard ina stua os cionn caor is coll;␤Nuair a ghluais mise thart le Loch Dhún Lúich’ go ciúin sa ghleann ina luí␤»
unmatched} $*IN.lines ?
psch Herby_: you can just chain &get calls
Herby_ That was my next question. I'm on Windows 10, working my way through 'Learning Perl' examples to learn Perl6
unmatched} m: mny @lines = $*IN.lines; say "Got {+@lines} lines of input"
camelia rakudo-moar b89bf9: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>␤Variable '@lines' is not declared. Did you mean '&lines'?␤at <tmp>:1␤------> 3mny 7⏏5@lines = $*IN.lines; say "Got {+@lines} ␤»
unmatched} m: my @lines = $*IN.lines; say "Got {+@lines} lines of input"
camelia rakudo-moar b89bf9: OUTPUT«Got 20 lines of input␤»
psch lines should go until EOF, which is the next use case i can think of 16:37
unmatched} Herby_: don't know about Windows, but on Linux, you generally use CTRL+D to end multi-line stuff; that's EOF (so .lines stuff would work for such a scenario) 16:38
psch i think windows uses ^Z?
geekosaur control-z may work, yeh
timotimo did i mention i have my very own camelia plushie? :D
unmatched} m: my @lines = $*IN.lines.map({/Nuair/ and last}); say "Got {+@lines} lines of input"
camelia rakudo-moar b89bf9: OUTPUT«Got 2 lines of input␤»
unmatched} timotimo: I'm jealous :) 16:39
[Coke] timotimo: jelly!
timotimo :D
liz and wendy came over to visit with their bikes, and they gave it to me in person! :D
Herby_ unmatched}, I'll give it a whirl. thanks
16:39 cosimo joined
unmatched} On the topic of sigls and twigils: www.xkcd.com/1306/ :) 16:42
AlexDaniel ↘ Go ↗ Perl 6 ? 16:45
16:47 sjoshi joined
Juerd unmatched}: Hmmm... $qbasic? I thought that was qbasic$ 16:47
16:47 prammer left
unmatched} *shrug* 16:48
16:48 prammer joined
[Coke] docubug, mkdir should note that it's creating intervening directories (like $ mkdir -p) 16:50
16:52 prammer left
AlexDaniel [Coke]: can you take a look at github.com/perl6/doc/pull/743 and tell your opinion? 16:53
or anybody else? 16:54
dalek c: 8761394 | (Zoffix Znet)++ | doc/Type/IO/Path.pod6:
Document mkdir is like $ mkdir -p

  [Coke]++		 16:56
AlexDaniel it's kinda interesting that people either don't see such pull requests or simply don't want to comment on them, but later…… We don't want to be in a situation when people start panicking when stuff is already done (“Why did you do this? Nooo!”)
16:57 Guest66 joined, Guest66 is now known as P6fr
P6fr re 16:57
unmatched} I just passed it as tl;dr and unsubbed from the first glosarry issue 'cause it was spamming my notifications :)
17:00 labster joined 17:03 travis-ci joined
travis-ci Doc build failed. Zoffix Znet 'Document mkdir is like $ mkdir -p 17:03
travis-ci.org/perl6/doc/builds/146698077 github.com/perl6/doc/compare/f96c6...613942831d
17:03 travis-ci left
unmatched} Oh, f off with your trailing whitespace. 17:04
Juerd ...said the unmatched curly. 17:05
dalek c: ebab3c9 | (Zoffix Znet)++ | doc/Type/IO/Path.pod6:
:rage4:
 17:06
[Coke] unmatched}: as the author of that test (but not the committer), I would have no problem if the test became optional.
17:06 sjoshi left
[Coke] AlexDaniel: there's a lot of stuff there. do you just want feedback on whether we should remove links to wikipedia? 17:06
unmatched} I think AlexDaniel was running some statistics vis-a-vis that test. So I'll leave it to him to make changes, if any are needed. 17:07
AlexDaniel according to my statistics, Zoffix is very unhappy with these tests 17:08
unmatched} :D
17:08 zakharyas left
[Coke] i agree that it's frustrating when someone puts in the work, the trigger is pulled, and then someone like me says "why did you do that". but given the volunteer nature of the project, it's hard to avoid, unless someone wants to *own* the project and make sure that doesn't happen. (like you're doing by asking me! thanks!) 17:09
AlexDaniel [Coke]: the question is should we remove glossary items like JVM, JIT or OOP from the glossary?
[Coke] on the other hand, running 'make test' before pushing is easy.
AlexDaniel: I could argue it either way. 17:10
unmatched} [Coke]: no it's not, because it'd involve finding/cloning the repo pulling the changes, making edits, and pushing back. Compare that to "Edit this page" on GitHub that let's you do single-click edits. 17:11
[Coke] hard to determine where to draw the line is.
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[Coke] unmatched}: You're the only person I know that is editing things via github. 17:11
unmatched} I can't be the only one.
AlexDaniel not the only one
github marks commits that were done via github, it seems like others do that sometimes too 17:12
[Coke] so someone open a ticket to make the test optional.
unmatched} does so
17:13 travis-ci joined
travis-ci Doc build errored. Zoffix Znet ' :rage4:' 17:13
travis-ci.org/perl6/doc/builds/146700502 github.com/perl6/doc/compare/87613...ab3c955752
17:13 travis-ci left
AlexDaniel travis-ci: you're drunk, go home 17:13
unmatched} Opened github.com/perl6/doc/issues/745 17:16
[Coke] what is "Pod::To::BigPage" ? 17:17
gfldex [Coke]: it renders all pod files into one big html file, what can be shipped with a distro and will even work with ntfs 17:18
[Coke] ah, it's too new.
17:18 dainis joined
gfldex also it allows printing for some values of printing 17:18
[Coke] one of its tests depends on IO::Socket::SSL implicitly but not explicitly. 17:19
unmatched} Neat. TIL GitHub marks on-site-edited commits :)
[Coke] I'm done with unmatched}'s request, just trying to get a clean test run in. 17:20
unmatched} \o/ [Coke]++
[Coke] ... openssl assumes that DNS works.
and doesn't respect https roxy. 17:22
[Coke] opens github.com/sergot/openssl/issues/30 17:23
17:23 TimToady joined 17:24 usermac joined
usermac Does Google Cloud offer Perl6? If not, then who? Thx 17:24
17:25 pmurias joined
pmurias hi 17:25
unmatched} hey
usermac: offer how? I got Perl 6 installed on my GCE VM 17:26
[Coke] and another one for LWP::Simple...
usermac: there's a docker container, if that helps. 17:27
s/container/image/ oops
unmatched} usermac: it's "app engine" only has Node.js, Java, Python, PHP, Go, and Ruby listed as languages of choice.
[Coke] ==> Testing Pod::To::BigPage
===SORRY!===
Expected MAST::Frame, but didn't get one
t/P.t ..
unmatched} That was an issue with JSON::RPC too and the author belives that has to do with something LWP::Simple 17:28
*in LWP...
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P6fr m: my @ = 1..5.say 17:29
camelia rakudo-moar b89bf9: OUTPUT«5␤»
[Coke] github.com/gfldex/perl6-pod-to-bigpage/issues/1
P6fr m: my @ = 1..5;say @
camelia rakudo-moar b89bf9: OUTPUT«[]␤»
17:29 domidumont joined
[Coke] will just push the test change untested, then. 17:29
AlexDaniel [Coke]: there's some discussion on github.com/perl6/doc/issues/745 :) 17:30
gfldex [Coke]: that test is working fine locally and in a clean VM
P6fr m: my @a = 1..5;say @a
camelia rakudo-moar b89bf9: OUTPUT«[1 2 3 4 5]␤»
dalek c: 4aee722 | coke++ | Makefile:
Turn off trailing whitespace test for 'make test'

Make all tests available under 'make xtest'		 17:31
gfldex [Coke]: can you try `panda --force install LWP::Simple` please?
[Coke] gfldex: I had to do that just now to install LWP::Simple, yes
sorry; 17:32
what I did was "panda --notests install LWP::Simple"
since LWP::Simple fails tests here.
heading out
17:33 cdg left, cdg joined
unmatched} \o/ 17:33
gfldex [Coke]: i don't got IO::Socket::SSL installed (because it doesn't work) 17:34
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P6fr m: say 1..26 Z A..Z 17:41
camelia rakudo-moar b89bf9: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>␤Undeclared names:␤ A used at line 1␤ Z used at line 1␤␤»
17:41 TrollButNotOnIrc is now known as pmurias
P6fr m: my $a =1..26 Z A..Z 17:42
camelia rakudo-moar b89bf9: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>␤Undeclared names:␤ A used at line 1␤ Z used at line 1␤␤»
unmatched} m: m: say 1..26 Z "A".."Z"
camelia rakudo-moar b89bf9: OUTPUT«((1 A) (2 B) (3 C) (4 D) (5 E) (6 F) (7 G) (8 H) (9 I) (10 J) (11 K) (12 L) (13 M) (14 N) (15 O) (16 P) (17 Q) (18 R) (19 S) (20 T) (21 U) (22 V) (23 W) (24 X) (25 Y) (26 Z))␤»
P6fr m: my $a =1..26 Z =>"A".."Z" 17:43
camelia rakudo-moar b89bf9: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>␤Preceding context expects a term, but found infix => instead␤at <tmp>:1␤------> 3my $a =1..26 Z =>7⏏5"A".."Z"␤»
P6fr m: my $a =1..26 Z=>"A".."Z"
camelia ( no output )
unmatched} You need to `say` or output the output some other way
P6fr m: my $a =1..26 Z=>"A".."Z";say $a
camelia rakudo-moar b89bf9: OUTPUT«1..26␤»
P6fr ok thx unmatched} 17:44
unmatched} m: my $a = (1..26 Z=>"A".."Z");say $a
camelia rakudo-moar b89bf9: OUTPUT«(1 => A 2 => B 3 => C 4 => D 5 => E 6 => F 7 => G 8 => H 9 => I 10 => J 11 => K 12 => L 13 => M 14 => N 15 => O 16 => P 17 => Q 18 => R 19 => S 20 => T 21 => U 22 => V 23 => W 24 => X 25 => Y 26 => Z)␤»
AlexDaniel or
m: my @a = 1..26 Z=> "A".."Z"; say @a
camelia rakudo-moar b89bf9: OUTPUT«[1 => A 2 => B 3 => C 4 => D 5 => E 6 => F 7 => G 8 => H 9 => I 10 => J 11 => K 12 => L 13 => M 14 => N 15 => O 16 => P 17 => Q 18 => R 19 => S 20 => T 21 => U 22 => V 23 => W 24 => X 25 => Y 26 => Z]␤»
unmatched} Right
17:45 domidumont left
P6fr thx you very much 17:45
17:45 sena_san joined
AlexDaniel or maybe you want something like this 17:46
m: say (‘A’..‘Z’).pairs
camelia rakudo-moar b89bf9: OUTPUT«(0 => A 1 => B 2 => C 3 => D 4 => E 5 => F 6 => G 7 => H 8 => I 9 => J 10 => K 11 => L 12 => M 13 => N 14 => O 15 => P 16 => Q 17 => R 18 => S 19 => T 20 => U 21 => V 22 => W 23 => X 24 => Y 25 => Z)␤»
AlexDaniel the numbering is a little bit different, but who knows, maybe that's what you need
P6fr hum 17:47
unmatched} m: use MONKEY-TYPING; augment class List { method succ { self.[0].succ; self.[1].succ } }; say (1, "A"), (2, "B") ... (26, "Z") 17:48
camelia rakudo-moar b89bf9: OUTPUT«Cannot convert string to number: base-10 number must begin with valid digits or '.' in '3⏏5C' (indicated by ⏏)␤ in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤Actually thrown at:␤␤»
unmatched} In 'C'? Digits? wat
17:48 mohae_ joined
P6fr how to do a variable global 17:48
? 17:49
unmatched} I guess it's the Doctor Hurts thing... It's trying to do numerical comparison with something
P6fr: why? Globals are a bad idea
P6fr why ? i need a array for all codes
unmatched} P6fr: what do you mean by "global"? 17:50
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travis-ci Doc build passed. Will "Coke" Coleda 'Turn off trailing whitespace test for 'make test' 17:51
travis-ci.org/perl6/doc/builds/146707981 github.com/perl6/doc/compare/ebab3...ee7229425d
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P6fr available in all parts From Code 17:51
hum no I'll take my and do not surround hook 17:52
it's the same
unmatched} m: say :26('MEO') 17:53
camelia rakudo-moar b89bf9: OUTPUT«15260␤»
unmatched} m: say :26('MEOW')
camelia rakudo-moar b89bf9: OUTPUT«Cannot convert string to number: malformed ':26' style radix number, expecting '>' after the body in '3:26<MEO⏏5W>' (indicated by ⏏)␤ in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤Actually thrown at:␤ in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤»
unmatched} m: say :36('MEOW')
camelia rakudo-moar b89bf9: OUTPUT«1045472␤»
17:54 tbrowder joined
unmatched} LTA-ish error. 17:54
(the '>' portion... it's not applicable to my actual code)
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s34n_ are there any performance benchmarks posted periodically to gauge progress on perl5 optimization? 18:05
mspo ? 18:07
unmatched} s34n_: try asking in #perl that's the channel for Perl 5 language.
folks in there would be more familiar
s34n_ oops. I meant perl6. typo
[Coke] this channel is about perl 6.
ah
github.com/japhb/perl6-bench is the software. not sure if there's a place that saves out graphs every so often. 18:08
unmatched} We should have Tux's test-t stuff in the speed FAQ.
timotimo yeah, we have daily graphs on the moarvm page
tux.nl/Talks/CSV6/speed4.html
unmatched} huggable: speed is :is: Some speed stats: tux.nl/Talks/CSV6/speed4.html 18:09
huggable unmatched}, Added speed is as Some speed stats: tux.nl/Talks/CSV6/speed4.html
unmatched} I just wish graphs started the axes at 0. The graphs are a bit misleading :)
timotimo yeah 18:10
www.moarvm.org/measurements/perl6-bench/ - sadly not really day-to-day comparisons
[Coke] timotimo: wonder if we could sort that directory listing in reverse. 18:11
timotimo www.moarvm.org/measurements/perl6-bench/?C=M;O=D 18:12
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[Coke] well, by default, though. :) 18:12
timotimo++ though
timotimo :) 18:13
figure out what to put into the .htaccess and it should be trivial for jnthn to put that up
unmatched} serverfault.com/a/642770 18:14
dalek c: 88b9a88 | (Wenzel P. P. Peppmeyer)++ | / (2 files):
add bigpage to automatic build
 18:15
c: e6f2aa0 | (Wenzel P. P. Peppmeyer)++ | Makefile:
Merge branch 'master' of github.com/perl6/doc
unmatched} IndexOptions NameWidth=* 18:16
IndexOrderDefault Descending Date
That's what we got on rakudo.org/downloads
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dalek c/wiki-entries-cleanup: 345efdc | Altai-man++ | doc/Language/glossary.pod6:
Fix for merge conflict
 18:22
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travis-ci Doc build failed. Wenzel P. P. Peppmeyer 'Merge branch 'master' of github.com/perl6/doc' 18:23
travis-ci.org/perl6/doc/builds/146717768 github.com/perl6/doc/compare/4aee7...f2aa04fbeb
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sena_san Conflict is resolved. There are still some strange pieces like "Javascript as a virtual machine", but it's not the case for this PR. 18:23
jdv79 [Coke]: ok. hope he comes back to write mojo6. 18:24
sri++
timotimo thank you, sena_san
unmatched} jdv79: he won't. The title of this commit kinda says it all: github.com/kraih/mojo/commit/19cdf...60182ef1ef 18:25
timotimo why is the linguist detection of perl6 vs perl5 code so bad? :\ 18:26
unmatched} Because languages are similar. 18:27
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unmatched} The issues are mostly with test files. 18:27
You have the same extention and there's not much else to differentiate by
jdv79 i don't think that's definitive. he's just frustrated with the current state of things. 18:28
aren't we all
unmatched} I'm not.
jdv79 ok
unmatched} I also seen him comment that it'd make more sense to make a Ruby version of Mojo*
timotimo because as opposed to perl6, ruby doesn't have Inline::Perl5? :) 18:29
unmatched} timotimo++
Yeah, other than the SEGV, my experience with Mojolicious over Inline::Perl5 was rather great. 18:30
jdv79 i'm sure. p5 is still not p6.
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unmatched} Seems a tribal statement :) 18:31
"We need the thing because everyone else has the thing"
Perl 6 doesn't have the speed or stability to support a competing web framework at the moment.
jdv79 i think that in 5 years we'll all look back at this and laugh
unmatched} I hope so :) 18:32
jdv79 exactly
unmatched} (SEGV I mentioned is this rt.perl.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=128558 )
Well, I'm leaving until next Monday. Hoping I'll have a production-ready IRC::Client when I come back :) 18:33
jdv79 have fun 18:34
timotimo have a nice weekend, unmatched}
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harmil The Star announcement is getting some negative traction on reddit (it's dropped from 11 to 9 upvotes while I've been watching)... :-( 18:37
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jdv79 happens 18:39
18:40 itaipu joined
perlpilot_ It's too bad the crappy comments are near the top though 18:40
timotimo on which subreddit? 18:44
18:45 itaipu left
mst www.reddit.com/r/programming/comme...tribution/ 18:45
timotimo found the one on r/perl6/
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Juerd harmil: Note that reddit scores are fuzzy and that a 2 point drop can be false information. 18:47
18:47 cdg joined
Juerd Heh, I actually agree with that comment about ^fff^ 18:48
moritz that aside, reddit really is full of jerks
gfldex if they have time to comment on reddit they likely are not in the rather small group of folk who get stuff done 18:50
perlpilot_
.oO( If "ff" stands for "flip flop", what does "fff" stand for? "flippity floppity floo"? )
Juerd One day I'll make a list of bulk I think we can just remove from Perl 6 because almost nobody uses them anyway.
ugexe because almost no code that you're personally aware of uses them you mean 18:51
Juerd Of course :)
ugexe thats kinda the rub
dalek c: d8d26e2 | (Christopher Bottoms)++ | doc/Language/faq.pod6:
Changed "Perl 6" to "Perl 6"

A non-breaking space means that no matter what browser someone is using, "Perl" and "6" will never seem separated by a line break.		 18:52
Juerd But does anyone besides Larry and Damian ever use indirect method call syntax?
Or ^fff
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AlexDaniel indirect method call syntax? Like say 42: ? 18:53
jdv79 is there a cool p6 intro slide set i could use?
ugexe most of reddit would say does anyone besides Larry and Damian use perl6 period
perlpilot_ Juerd: in P6? I use it all the time. In p5? I try not to
18:53 cosimo left
perlpilot_ Juerd: er ... not fff :) 18:54
AlexDaniel ah, the ."$foo" thingy?
Juerd I can't parse "... not fff"
ugexe CSV::Parser uses indirect methods
Juerd ugexe: Oh :)
perlpilot_ It's Friday; the chances that I'll be able to communicate clearly are diminished :) 18:55
Juerd ugexe: Where?
jdv79 at a conf. might carve out a slot. 18:56
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ugexe it uses stuff like $buffer."{self!sizer}"() throughout 18:57
Juerd That's not what I meant.
I was referring to the "method_name $invocant: arg, arg, arg;" syntax.
P6fr $str.=trans( ['a'..'y'] => ['A'..'z'] ); 18:58
m: $str.=trans( ['a'..'y'] => ['A'..'z'] );
camelia rakudo-moar b89bf9: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>␤Variable '$str' is not declared. Did you mean any of these?␤ str␤ Str␤␤at <tmp>:1␤------> 3<BOL>7⏏5$str.=trans( ['a'..'y'] => ['A'..'z'] );␤»
Juerd Symbolic access to method names is useful.
P6fr m: my $str.=trans( ['a'..'y'] => ['A'..'z'] );
camelia rakudo-moar b89bf9: OUTPUT«Method 'trans' not found for invocant of class 'Any'␤ in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤»
Juerd So I'm definitely not complaining about $foo."{....}"()
P6fr m: my $str=trans( ['a'..'y'] => ['A'..'z'] ); 18:59
camelia rakudo-moar b89bf9: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>␤Undeclared routine:␤ trans used at line 1. Did you mean 'rand', 'tanh', 'srand'?␤␤»
Juerd ugexe: get_line $csv:; # this would be an example of what I meant
AlexDaniel m: my $str = ‘hello’; $str.=trans( [‘a’..‘y’] => [‘A’..‘z’] ); say $str
camelia rakudo-moar b89bf9: OUTPUT«HELLO␤»
19:00 travis-ci joined
travis-ci Doc build failed. Christopher Bottoms 'Changed "Perl 6" to "Perl 6" 19:00
travis-ci.org/perl6/doc/builds/146725746 github.com/perl6/doc/compare/e6f2a...d26e291901
19:00 travis-ci left
Juerd ugexe: my $csv = new CSV::Parser: :file_handle($fh); # Another example 19:00
P6fr m: my $str="perl6 is beautiful";my $str.=trans( ['a'..'y'] => ['A'..'z'] );
Juerd Note the fine usage of colons there
camelia rakudo-moar b89bf9: OUTPUT«Potential difficulties:␤ Redeclaration of symbol $str␤ at <tmp>:1␤ ------> 3my $str="perl6 is beautiful";my $str7⏏5.=trans( ['a'..'y'] => ['A'..'z'] );␤»
19:00 cosimo joined
AlexDaniel m: my $str = ‘hello’; say $str.uc 19:00
camelia rakudo-moar b89bf9: OUTPUT«HELLO␤»
P6fr m: my $str="perl6 is beautiful";my $str.=trans( ['a'..'y'] => ['A'..'z'] ).say;
camelia rakudo-moar b89bf9: OUTPUT«Potential difficulties:␤ Redeclaration of symbol $str␤ at <tmp>:1␤ ------> 3my $str="perl6 is beautiful";my $str7⏏5.=trans( ['a'..'y'] => ['A'..'z'] ).say;␤PERL6 IS BEAUTIFUL␤»
timotimo throw the second "my" out 19:01
AlexDaniel P6fr: if you do “my $str .=” then it is calling a method on an Any
-an
timotimo i'm surprised you can .= trans(...).say
P6fr AlexDaniel i don't understand 19:03
ha
m: my $str="perl6 is beautiful";say $str.=trans( ['a'..'y'] => ['A'..'z'] ).say;
camelia rakudo-moar b89bf9: OUTPUT«PERL6 IS BEAUTIFUL␤True␤»
P6fr ok
thx
AlexDaniel P6fr: well, “my $str .= foo” is basically “my $str = $str.foo” 19:04
P6fr: so the question is what is the value of $str there
m: my $str; say $str
camelia rakudo-moar b89bf9: OUTPUT«(Any)␤»
P6fr ha ok
mspo that doesn't make a lot of sense to me
AlexDaniel m: my $str = ‘hello’; $str .= uc().say; say $str 19:05
camelia rakudo-moar b89bf9: OUTPUT«HELLO␤HELLO␤»
AlexDaniel m: my $str = ‘hello’; ($str .= uc()).say; say $str 19:06
camelia rakudo-moar b89bf9: OUTPUT«HELLO␤HELLO␤»
timotimo interesting. useful. a bit surprising, perhaps 19:07
Juerd mspo: What exactly doesn't make sense to you?
mspo m: my $str = ‘hello’; $str .= uc(); say $str
camelia rakudo-moar b89bf9: OUTPUT«HELLO␤»
AlexDaniel timotimo: I'm not sure if that is useful. Anyone looking at that code will go “WTF??” 19:08
timotimo: I'd better use parens
timotimo sure
Juerd m: my $number = 4; $number += 2; say $number;
camelia rakudo-moar b89bf9: OUTPUT«6␤»
Juerd Does that make sense? :)
mspo Juerd: because I want .= to do ~~= (append), probably
Juerd m: my $number = 25; $number .= sqrt; say $number;
camelia rakudo-moar b89bf9: OUTPUT«5␤»
AlexDaniel m: my $str = ‘hello’; $str = $str . uc(); say $str # if yes, then why not that?
camelia rakudo-moar b89bf9: OUTPUT«HELLO␤»
mspo m: my $str = ‘hello’; $str ~~= uc(); say $str
camelia rakudo-moar b89bf9: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>␤Cannot make assignment out of ~~ because chaining operators are too diffy␤at <tmp>:1␤------> 3my $str = ‘hello’; $str ~~=7⏏5 uc(); say $str␤»
Juerd mspo: I think you mean ~=
mspo m: my $str = ‘hello’; $str ~= uc(); say $str 19:09
camelia rakudo-moar b89bf9: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>␤Calling uc() will never work with declared signature (Cool $s)␤at <tmp>:1␤------> 3my $str = ‘hello’; $str ~= 7⏏5uc(); say $str␤»
Juerd mspo: You're now calling the function uc(), which requires an argument
m: my $str = 'hello'; $str ~= uc(" there"); say $str;
camelia rakudo-moar b89bf9: OUTPUT«hello THERE␤»
mspo m: my $str = ‘hello’; $str ~= .uc(); say $str
camelia rakudo-moar b89bf9: OUTPUT«Method 'uc' not found for invocant of class 'Any'␤ in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤»
AlexDaniel mspo: it translates to $str = $str ~ uc()
P6fr wht ~= ?
AlexDaniel P6fr: ~ concats two strings 19:10
mspo m: my $str = ‘hello’; $str ~= $str.uc(); say $str
camelia rakudo-moar b89bf9: OUTPUT«helloHELLO␤»
Juerd mspo: Now you're calling $_.uc() because you can't combine .op operators
mspo: I mean op=, not .op
AlexDaniel m: my $str = ‘hello’; $str = $str ~ ‘ world’; say $str
camelia rakudo-moar b89bf9: OUTPUT«hello world␤»
AlexDaniel m: my $str = ‘hello’; $str ~= ‘ world’; say $str
camelia rakudo-moar b89bf9: OUTPUT«hello world␤»
Juerd P6fr: Do you know what += does?
P6fr yes AlexDaniel but ~and = ?
AlexDaniel P6fr: see above
P6fr yes
Juerd P6fr: ~= is like that, but for ~ instead of +
P6fr: ~ concatenates strings, while + adds numbers. 19:11
P6fr it's the same as .=
mspo I guess I was in p5 mode
Juerd In general: if there's an infix operator "op" that you use as "$foo op $bar", then you can write "$foo = $foo op $bar" using a shorter form: "$foo op= $bar"
So the infix + becomes +=, the infix ~ becomes ~+, and the infix . becomes .= 19:12
~=, not ~+
mspo oh right, larry wall showed that in a video when he made an infix op
Juerd Held the shift key a bit too long :)
Yes, it also works for infix operators you create yourself. So let's create that "op" operator:
m: sub infix:<op> ($name1, $name2) { "$name1 ♥ $name2" }; my $statement = "Juerd"; $statement op= "Perl 6"; say $statement; 19:13
camelia rakudo-moar b89bf9: OUTPUT«Juerd ♥ Perl 6␤»
P6fr but wat's the point of putting :$str ~= $str.uc() 19:14
AlexDaniel m: sub infix:<op> ($name1, $name2) { "$name1 ♥ $name2" }; say [op] "Juerd", "Perl 6", "custom ops"
camelia rakudo-moar b89bf9: OUTPUT«Juerd ♥ Perl 6 ♥ custom ops␤»
AlexDaniel m: sub infix:<op> ($name1, $name2) { "$name1 ♥ $name2" }; say ("Juerd", "AlexDaniel") »op« ("Perl 6", "custom ops") 19:15
camelia rakudo-moar b89bf9: OUTPUT«(Juerd ♥ Perl 6 AlexDaniel ♥ custom ops)␤»
Juerd P6fr: There isn't much point in doing that, because it would add the uppercased string to the original. 19:16
P6fr ok
mspo AlexDaniel: can you show that with comb?
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Juerd Is that Perl 6 for "can you use that in a sentence?"? 19:17
P6fr I want to thank you all for helping newbies
Juerd P6fr: My pleasure :)
AlexDaniel mspo: hmm, what do you mean?
19:17 cosimo left
mspo oh nevermind, I'm confused 19:18
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prammer is there a dwim date/time module or function that can parse this: 2016-07-21T19:56:22.464+0000 19:44
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prammer I tried DateTime::Parse, no luck 19:45
harmil I think that's the state of the art right now... 19:47
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dalek c: 0b82fdd | (Christopher Bottoms)++ | doc/Type/Bool.pod6:
Bool.succ, .pred methods explained (please review)

I first encountered the method "succ" today, and it was a method on Bool. At first I misunderstood it to mean "success", and wondered what type of failure or disaster "pred" stood for. Then I discovered that "succ" means "successor" and "pred" means "predecessor" and that they seem to totally make sense if we think of Bool in terms of it consisting of two possible enums. So, that's what I tried to explain, but I would really like someone that f		 19:52
c: 30c2714 | (Christopher Bottoms)++ | doc/Type/Bool.pod6:
formatting tweak
c: 657c0e0 | (Christopher Bottoms)++ | doc/Type/Bool.pod6:
Merge pull request #744 from perl6/molecules-patch-1

Bool.succ, .pred methods explained
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travis-ci Doc build failed. Christopher Bottoms 'Merge pull request #744 from perl6/molecules-patch-1 20:00
travis-ci.org/perl6/doc/builds/146738211 github.com/perl6/doc/compare/d8d26...7c0e0c5fb6
20:00 travis-ci left 20:03 kid51 joined
dalek c: 646039e | (Wenzel P. P. Peppmeyer)++ | .travis.yml:
set PATH as rakudobrew demands
 20:09
c: e97a2fa | (Wenzel P. P. Peppmeyer)++ | doc/ (2 files):
Merge branch 'master' of github.com/perl6/doc
20:09 Tonik joined
gfldex system administration via git push is kinda slow 20:09
dalek c: 1b63b98 | (Christopher Bottoms)++ | doc/Type/Bool.pod6:
deconfusing enum and enum value

Thanks @AlexDaniel		 20:12
P6fr dalek is a bot ? 20:13
gfldex yes
P6fr why he said thx alexdaniel ? 20:14
what is said doc: ...
gfldex that's part of the commit message
P6fr why
AlexDaniel dalek: dalek is a bot that announces commits to different repos
oops
P6fr ok
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AlexDaniel P6fr: commit in question is github.com/perl6/doc/commit/1b63b9...e6a9eb1bd9 20:15
P6fr there are a lot of commit
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AlexDaniel yeah, people are working on docs very actively nowadays 20:16
P6fr how many user of perl6 ? you know ?
AlexDaniel let's count
one, two, three, four, five, si…
P6fr lol
AlexDaniel P6fr: actually, it is very hard to estimate 20:17
P6fr There's no statistics?
ok
ugexe PR: add telemetry to compiler
skids You can only guess the number of users, unless you are closed source and use a license server. 20:18
gfldex P6fr: i can't tell you how many but I can tell you where: imgur.com/a/LopbT 20:19
AlexDaniel there are also debian stats qa.debian.org/popcon-graph.php?pac...rakudo-lib 20:20
gfldex a good view count for my blog is 170
AlexDaniel but this does not mean much
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travis-ci Doc build passed. Christopher Bottoms 'formatting tweak' 20:21
travis-ci.org/perl6/doc/builds/146740312 github.com/perl6/doc/compare/molecules-patch-1
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AlexDaniel just don't do this: qa.debian.org/popcon-graph.php?pac...beenhere=1 20:21
ugexe how many users does phpixie have??
[Coke] gets a syntax error on this line of perl6 code: ------> sub update-git-checkout(⏏$url, $repo) {
dalek c: 2da45b5 | (Tom Browder)++ | doc/Language/tables.pod6:
Slight additional editing for clarity and correctness
 20:22
AlexDaniel [Coke]: so invalid, wow
gfldex [Coke]: you may have a problem with a quote and/or interpolation
m: sub f(){} say "{f(}"; say 'oi!'; 20:23
camelia rakudo-moar b89bf9: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>␤Strange text after block (missing semicolon or comma?)␤at <tmp>:1␤------> 3sub f(){}7⏏5 say "{f(}"; say 'oi!';␤ expecting any of:␤ infix␤ infix stopper␤ statement en…»
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travis-ci Doc build passed. Wenzel P. P. Peppmeyer 'Merge branch 'master' of github.com/perl6/doc' 20:27
travis-ci.org/perl6/doc/builds/146741902 github.com/perl6/doc/compare/657c0...7a2faa1ea3
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travis-ci Doc build passed. Christopher Bottoms 'deconfusing enum and enum value 20:33
travis-ci.org/perl6/doc/builds/146742728 github.com/perl6/doc/compare/e97a2...63b98eb737
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Roamer` m: my %a = :a(1), :c(2), :b("foo"); my %b = :b("foo"), :c(2), :a(1); dd %a{*}:v Z %b{*}:v; 20:38
camelia rakudo-moar b89bf9: OUTPUT«((1, 1), (2, 2), ("foo", "foo")).Seq␤»
Roamer` is this supposed to happen? Can I depend on it?
[Coke] you can't depend on hash order. 20:39
if you want things sorted for sure, sort them.
Roamer` [Coke], yes, that's what I'm accustomed to (I remember when people made changes to actively randomize hash order even more than before) 20:41
[Coke], that's why I was a bit surprised by this result
or I guess it's just elements falling into the same hash containers for a small number of elements
I guess I shouldn't be surprised
hash buckets, I mean
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travis-ci Doc build passed. Tom Browder 'Slight additional editing for clarity and correctness' 20:44
travis-ci.org/perl6/doc/builds/146744968 github.com/perl6/doc/compare/1b63b...a45b54f1a5
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dalek c: 0c09e85 | (Wenzel P. P. Peppmeyer)++ | util/update-and-sync:
explicitly add PATH that rakudobrew forgot
 20:45
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gfldex somebody doc something please, we need 2 commits to have changes to util/update-and-sync take effect :) 20:49
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Roamer` okay, yeah, I just tested it with 100 random keys and values and {*}:k and {*}:v did not return the same order on two hash that otherwise test the same with is-deeply... so things are back to normal 20:52
on two hashes even
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dalek c: 1b39176 | skids++ | doc/Language/variables.pod6:
fix typo
 21:03
skids There's 1/2 21:04
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AlexDaniel oh 21:11
s26 is now fixed
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sena_kun AlexDaniel, cool. 21:14
skids gfdex: gist.github.com/skids/8ceb56206d68...3824e4162c 21:17
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skids I have yet to run any spectests 21:17
21:17 mephinet joined
skids (and haven't run them on HEAD in a while either so don't know what normal failures are these days) 21:17
gfldex skids: nice 21:18
skids As usual, actual fix pretty easy, following the 5 levels of indirection and renaming was the hard part.
gfldex we got docs.perl6.org/perl6.xhtml now
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gfldex FF crashed in print preview, chrome works fine 21:18
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skids Too many tabs open in FF to test that :-) 21:25
P6fr m: say my %alphabet = "A".."Z" Z=> 1..26;
camelia rakudo-moar b89bf9: OUTPUT«{A => 1, B => 2, C => 3, D => 4, E => 5, F => 6, G => 7, H => 8, I => 9, J => 10, K => 11, L => 12, M => 13, N => 14, O => 15, P => 16, Q => 17, R => 18, S => 19, T => 20, U => 21, V => 22, W => 23, X => 24, Y => 25, Z => 26}␤»
P6fr perl is pretty
dalek c: a973e7b | (Aleks-Daniel Jakimenko-Aleksejev)++ | doc/Language/regexes.pod6:
Fix for #679 (^^ and the end of the string)
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AlexDaniel so basically someone is complaining that Perl 6 code is too short? Um… okay 21:35
harmil AlexDaniel: Do you mean the reddit thread about Star? 21:36
AlexDaniel yea
harmil Yeah, that's clearly someone who doesn't know what he doesn't like in a programming language who just wants to not like Perl 6. 21:37
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jdv79 too terse? 21:38
harmil But that being said, I do think that Perl 6 runs the risk of Huffman coding itself into oblivion. It's a fine line, and we shouldn't lose track of it. ^ffff^ might be near that line ;)
AlexDaniel but as always, you don't have to use it 21:39
jdv79 you could always tweak the lang by adding a bunch of oversized tokens if you wish:) 21:40
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P6fr AlexDaniel you work in info ? 21:42
AlexDaniel P6fr: info? What info? No, I don't think so
P6fr computer science
AlexDaniel ah. I don't have a full-time job, so I'd say no 21:43
P6fr ok
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harmil AlexDaniel: Not having to use a construct doesn't make code easier to read. 21:47
All I'm saying is that it's a thing to keep in sight.
AlexDaniel harmil: it does, given that nobody is using ^fff^ :)
vendethiel o/ 21:49
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harmil AlexDaniel: Well, it's used here: learnxinyminutes.com/docs/perl6/ 21:49
Which means it will probably be picked up by lots of beginners.
AlexDaniel wow! It actually goes on to explain flip flop operators! 21:50
vendethiel yes
I love flip flops :P
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vendethiel I considered removing it, for sure 21:50
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gfldex m: my @numbers = <4 8 15 16 23 42>; my $range = 0..2; .say for @numbers[$range]; 21:56
camelia rakudo-moar b89bf9: OUTPUT«16␤»
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gfldex m: my @numbers = <4 8 15 16 23 42>; my \range = 0..2; .say for @numbers[range]; 21:56
camelia rakudo-moar b89bf9: OUTPUT«4␤8␤15␤»
AlexDaniel m: my @numbers = <4 8 15 16 23 42>; my $range = 0..2; .say for @numbers[@$range]; 21:57
camelia rakudo-moar b89bf9: OUTPUT«4␤8␤15␤»
AlexDaniel hm
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gfldex m: my @numbers = <4 8 15 16 23 42>; my $range := 0..2; .say for @numbers[$range]; 21:58
camelia rakudo-moar b89bf9: OUTPUT«4␤8␤15␤»
harmil m: my @numbers = <4 8 15 16 23 42>; my $range = 0..2; .say for @numbers[|$range] 21:59
camelia rakudo-moar b89bf9: OUTPUT«4␤8␤15␤»
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harmil m: ("1", {$_ ~ $_.trans("01"=>"10")} ... *)[7].say 22:08
camelia rakudo-moar b89bf9: OUTPUT«10010110011010010110100110010110011010011001011010010110011010010110100110010110100101100110100110010110011010010110100110010110␤»
harmil I googled that. There were hits. *scared*
AlexDaniel harmil: I'm currently cloning the whole ecosystem to search for ^fff^ :) 22:10
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harmil ha! 22:12
gfldex AlexDaniel: when you are done please do a `du -sch`
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gfldex bisectable my @numbers = <4 8 15 16 23 42>; my $range = 0..2; .say for @numbers.[$range]; 22:16
bisectable gfldex: On both starting points the exit code is 0 and the output is identical as well
gfldex: Output on both points: 16
gfldex bisectable good=2015.12 bad=HEAD my @numbers = <4 8 15 16 23 42>; my $range = 0..2; .say for @numbers.[$range]; 22:17
bisectable gfldex: On both starting points the exit code is 0 and the output is identical as well
gfldex: Output on both points: 16
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AlexDaniel that's what it does by default 22:18
commit: 2015.10 my @numbers = <4 8 15 16 23 42>; my $range = 0..2; .say for @numbers.[$range];
committable AlexDaniel: |«2015.10»: 16
P6fr bug ? 22:19
AlexDaniel I don't think so
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gfldex i think that's a bug, it's picking the wrong multi candidate for postcircumfix:<[ ]> 22:22
it should pick on based on Iterable
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P6fr but why "16" 22:22
AlexDaniel m: my @x = 4,8,15; say +@x 22:23
camelia rakudo-moar 7257b3: OUTPUT«3␤»
AlexDaniel m: my @x = 4,8,15; say @x + 0
camelia rakudo-moar 7257b3: OUTPUT«3␤»
AlexDaniel P6fr: in numeric operations arrays turn into the count of elements in them 22:24
lizmat m: my @numbers = <4 8 15 16 23 42>; my $range := 0..2; .say for @numbers.[$range]
camelia rakudo-moar 7257b3: OUTPUT«4␤8␤15␤»
AlexDaniel or wait, is it the case
yeah
lizmat m: my @numbers = <4 8 15 16 23 42>; my $range = 0..2; .say for @numbers.[@$range] 22:25
camelia rakudo-moar 7257b3: OUTPUT«4␤8␤15␤»
lizmat on could argue that the single argument rule should be at work here
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lizmat *one 22:26
but I think we decided against that
perhaps jnthn has some ideas about that
AlexDaniel perhaps a good candidate for a @LARRY ticket?
lizmat fine by me :-)
good night, #perl6!
gfldex if the single argument rule is invoced, why does binding work? 22:28
AlexDaniel ok, except for 40 modules with broken META6.json all modules are now cloned
gfldex: 256M
gfldex i would have guessed less but then I forgot about .git 22:29
lizmat gfldex: good question
afk&
gfldex i shall rakudobug
AlexDaniel harmil: none for fff 22:31
there are some false-positives but no actual use 22:32
harmil I'm going to publish ^fff^.pm in a few minutes ;-)
AlexDaniel three uses of ff here: github.com/p6-pdf/perl6-Font-AFM/b...FM.pm#L242 22:33
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AlexDaniel one more ff here: github.com/perl6/doc/blob/master/l...y.pm6#L103 22:34
that's it 22:35
skids gfldex: spectest went well so I filed rakudo PR #829
If it goes in probably will break examples where you tried to doc the old behavior 22:36
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gfldex skids: i will keep an eye on it 22:53
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japhb m: sub is-power-of-two($n) { !($n +& ($n - 1)) }; is-power-of-two($_).say for ^10; # hahainternet 23:18
camelia rakudo-moar a37cd2: OUTPUT«True␤True␤True␤False␤True␤False␤False␤False␤True␤False␤»
AlexDaniel unmatched}: here?
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AlexDaniel what's the difference between ｢"support" : { "source" : "…" }｣ and ｢"source-url": "…"｣ in META6.json files? 23:26
timotimo one of them is deprecated i think? 23:27
AlexDaniel out of 680 modules there are only 26 modules with ｢"support" : { "source" : "…" }｣ 23:28
interestingly, 19 out of these 26 are by Zoffix :)
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cog_ .tell vendethiel thx for the URL 23:32
yoleaux cog_: I'll pass your message to vendethiel.
AlexDaniel .tell unmatched} maybe this should be fixed, take a look: irclog.perlgeek.de/perl6/2016-07-22#i_12892188 23:35
yoleaux AlexDaniel: I'll pass your message to unmatched}.
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P6fr me: [5+9+6+3+5+1+4+7].trans("+" =>" ") 23:43
m: [5+9+6+3+5+1+4+7].trans("+" =>" ") 23:44
camelia ( no output )
P6fr m: [5+9+6+3+5+1+4+7].trans("+" =>" ").say
camelia rakudo-moar a37cd2: OUTPUT«40␤»
P6fr m: [5+9+6+3+5+1+4+7].trans([+] =>" ").say
camelia rakudo-moar a37cd2: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>␤Preceding context expects a term, but found infix => instead␤at <tmp>:1␤------> 3[5+9+6+3+5+1+4+7].trans([+] =>7⏏5" ").say␤»
P6fr m: [5+9+6+3+5+1+4+7].trans(+ =>" ").say 23:45
camelia rakudo-moar a37cd2: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>␤Prefix + requires an argument, but no valid term found␤at <tmp>:1␤------> 3[5+9+6+3+5+1+4+7].trans(+7⏏5 =>" ").say␤ expecting any of:␤ prefix␤»
P6fr how replace the operator + by nothing 23:46
the most simple and quick way. I do not know if .trans is the most reliable 23:47
pls
m: {5+9+6+3+5+1+4+7}.trans(+ =>" ").say 23:48
camelia rakudo-moar a37cd2: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>␤Prefix + requires an argument, but no valid term found␤at <tmp>:1␤------> 3{5+9+6+3+5+1+4+7}.trans(+7⏏5 =>" ").say␤ expecting any of:␤ prefix␤»
P6fr m: {5+9+6+3+5+1+4+7}.trans([+] =>" ").say
camelia rakudo-moar a37cd2: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>␤Preceding context expects a term, but found infix => instead␤at <tmp>:1␤------> 3{5+9+6+3+5+1+4+7}.trans([+] =>7⏏5" ").say␤»
P6fr m: {5+9+6+3+5+1+4+7}.trans("+" =>" ").say
camelia rakudo-moar a37cd2: OUTPUT«Method 'trans' not found for invocant of class 'Block'␤ in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤»
P6fr m: trans(5+9+6+3+5+1+4+7,"+" =>" ").say 23:49
camelia rakudo-moar a37cd2: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>␤Undeclared routine:␤ trans used at line 1. Did you mean 'rand', 'tanh', 'srand'?␤␤»
P6fr m: [5+9+6+3+5+1+4+7].trans(+ =>" ").say 23:50
camelia rakudo-moar a37cd2: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>␤Prefix + requires an argument, but no valid term found␤at <tmp>:1␤------> 3[5+9+6+3+5+1+4+7].trans(+7⏏5 =>" ").say␤ expecting any of:␤ prefix␤»
P6fr m: [5+9+6+3+5+1+4+7].trans("+" =>" ").say
camelia rakudo-moar a37cd2: OUTPUT«40␤»
parabolize '5+9+6+3+5+1+4+7'.trans("+" =>" ").say
P6fr m: [5+9+6+3+5+1+4+7].trans("1" =>" ").say
camelia rakudo-moar a37cd2: OUTPUT«40␤»
parabolize it works on strings not arrays 23:51
P6fr [5+9+6+3+5+1+4+7].trans("+" =>" ").say for result 59635147
hum
[5+9+6+3+5+1+4+7].words.trans("+" =>" ").say for result 59635147 23:52
AlexDaniel m: say [5, 9, 6, 3, 5, 1, 4, 7].join(‘ ’)
camelia rakudo-moar a37cd2: OUTPUT«5 9 6 3 5 1 4 7␤»
P6fr m: [5+9+6+3+5+1+4+7].words.trans("+" =>" ").say
camelia rakudo-moar a37cd2: OUTPUT«40␤»
P6fr ha
so trans is bad for that 23:53
AlexDaniel no, it's just that 5+9+6+3+5+1+4+7 will collapse into 40 no matter what you do
P6fr ok
and for delete + so ? 23:54
m: say [5+9+6+3+5+1+4+7].split("+") 23:55
camelia rakudo-moar a37cd2: OUTPUT«(40)␤»
P6fr ok 23:56
it's not possible
parabolize m: say Q[5+9+6+3+5+1+4+7].split("+")
camelia rakudo-moar a37cd2: OUTPUT«(5 9 6 3 5 1 4 7)␤»
AlexDaniel you can't do anything unless it is a string
P6fr haaa dont know Q
parabolize P6fr: your still using an array like a string
P6fr agree it's recorder 23:57
m: say Q.WHAT 23:58
camelia rakudo-moar a37cd2: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>␤Couldn't find terminator . (corresponding . was at line 1)␤at <tmp>:1␤------> 3say Q.WHAT7⏏5<EOL>␤ expecting any of:␤ .␤»
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P6fr go google so 23:58
parabolize P6fr: docs.perl6.org/language/quoting#Li...strings:_Q
github.com/perl6/roast/blob/master.../quoting.t 23:59

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