»ö« Welcome to Perl 6! | perl6.org/ | evalbot usage: 'p6: say 3;' or rakudo:, or /msg camelia p6: ... | irclog: irc.perl6.org or colabti.org/irclogger/irclogger_logs/perl6 | UTF-8 is our friend!
Set by moritz on 22 December 2015.
Voldenet m: "gżegżółka".encode('ISO-8859-2').say 00:00
camelia Unknown string encoding: 'iso-8859-2'
in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1
Voldenet m: "test".encode('ISO-8859-1').say
camelia Blob[uint8]:0x<74 65 73 74> 00:01
Voldenet odd
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AlexDaniel m: say <a b c>.last 00:08
camelia No such method 'last' for invocant of type 'List'
in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1
AlexDaniel m: say <a b c>.end
camelia 2
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tony-o hm 00:16
AlexDaniel o/ 00:17
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tony-o when did GLOBAL::.values stop returning a list of loaded modules? 00:20
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AlexDaniel m: say <a b c>.tail 00:22
camelia c
geekosaur possibly the lexical module loading changes? 00:23
AlexDaniel tony-o: there's some information on rakudo.org/ , perhaps it is relevant
tony-o geekosaur AlexDaniel ++ 00:25
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tony-o is the intent with that to not allow 'require' to be passed file names? 00:35
m: say (try require "hello.pm6".IO.absolute); 00:36
camelia ===SORRY!===
No such method 'IO' for invocant of type 'Any'
BenGoldberg This is probably a silly idea, but would it be useful for Positional to have it's own .map(Callable) method, which returns a new Positional whose values are lazily constructed when accessed via []? 00:37
tony-o ah, nevermind
BenGoldberg m: my \result = [^5].hyper.map: { say $_; $_ }; dd result
camelia HyperSeq.new
tony-o that's a weird precedence, though
geekosaur m: say (try require ("hello.pm6".IO.absolute));
camelia Nil
geekosaur yeh
BenGoldberg m: my \result = [^5].map: { say $_; $_ }; dd result
camelia 0
1
2
3
4
(0, 1, 2, 3, 4).Seq
geekosaur I suspect it's related to being able to handle either an expression or a "bareword" module name 00:38
tony-o so, now i need to figure out how to get the exported class/role from that file since require returns the path with that. i guess it'd be the .new.WHAT 00:39
hmm..weird
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tony-o that isn't it. 00:41
BenGoldberg huggable, rakudobug 00:42
huggable BenGoldberg, Report bugs by emailing to [email@hidden.address]
BenGoldberg hugs huggable
huggable, botsnack
synopsebot6 om nom nom
huggable BenGoldberg, nothing found
BenGoldberg laughs. 00:43
huggable, botsnack is Thank you.
synopsebot6 om nom nom
huggable BenGoldberg, nothing found
BenGoldberg huggable, botsnack :is: Thank you.
synopsebot6 om nom nom
huggable BenGoldberg, Added botsnack as Thank you.
synopsebot6 om nom nom
tony-o haha
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Geth doc: ccae74a150 | (Zoffix Znet)++ | doc/Type/IO/Path.pod6
[io grant] Fix incorrect information for IO::Path.absolute

The method does not use `$*CWD`, but the object's CWD attribute, if no base is given.		 01:47
doc: 3cf943d86b | (Zoffix Znet)++ | doc/Type/IO/Path.pod6
[io grant] Expand IO::Path.relative

  - include info on what happens if the path is already relative		 01:48
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Geth whateverable/master: 4 commits pushed by (Aleks-Daniel Jakimenko-Aleksejev)++ 03:09
AlexDaniel ↑ but no build-moarvm script for it yet… :P 03:11
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BenGoldberg m: my $repo = 42; dd :$repo 03:17
camelia block <unit>
BenGoldberg m: my $repo = 42; dd $:repo 03:18
camelia 5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>
Cannot use placeholder parameter $:repo outside of a sub or block
at <tmp>:1
------> 3my $repo = 42; dd $:repo7⏏5<EOL>
BenGoldberg m: my $r = 42; say item :$r;
camelia ()
BenGoldberg m: my $r = 42; dd item $:r;
camelia 5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>
Cannot use placeholder parameter $:r outside of a sub or block
at <tmp>:1
------> 3my $r = 42; dd item $:r7⏏5;
BenGoldberg m: my $r = 42; my $z = :$r; 03:20
camelia ( no output )
BenGoldberg m: my $r = 42; my $z = :$r; say $z
camelia r => 42
BenGoldberg AlexDaniel, you only used it in one place, but 'repo => $repo' is probably better written as ':$repo'
AlexDaniel BenGoldberg: oh… right
that's actually what the rest of the code is using 03:21
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Geth whateverable: c4a763b66c | (Aleks-Daniel Jakimenko-Aleksejev)++ | Whateverable.pm6
Tiny code style tweak
 03:23
AlexDaniel BenGoldberg: if only somebody refactored the whole code for Bloatable and Unicodable… *wink-wink* 03:25
:)
BenGoldberg I don't quite get what bloatable does... 03:27
BenGoldberg shrugs
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geekosaur tells you how much actual memory a binary will use, without running it 03:32
chasing down shared objects etc.
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adu hi 04:27
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u-ou hi 05:10
samcv hi 05:17
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masak morning, #perl6 05:33
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samcv hope you are all good at $present-time 05:34
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samcv ok i have the wiki page that supposidly has the most languages 06:35
345 languages this article is in. this should be sufficient for adding more unicode tests :)
this is the page btw en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kur%C3%B3w
though this one might be better. has 285 wikis languages (previous one included test wikis in the count) en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finland 06:38
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Todd_ Hi All! What am I doing wrong here? 07:36
perl6 -e 'my @x=<a b c>;my @y=<x y z>; push(@x, @y); for @x -> $I {say $I;}' 07:37
a b c [x y z]
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Woodi hi Todd_ 07:37
I think push(@x,...)
,slip @y ?
Todd_ what I am after is `a b c x y z` And I don't what to create a new array, just add to the first one
Woodi or flat
DrForr m: my @x=1,2;my @y=3,4;append(@x,@y); say @x; 07:38
camelia [1 2 3 4]
Todd_ perl6 -e 'my @x=<a b c>;my @y=<x y z>; push(@x, slip @y); for @x -> $I {say $I;}' a b c x y z
perfect. let me append too
perl6 -e 'my @x=<a b c>;my @y=<x y z>; append(@x, @y); for @x -> $I {say $I;}' a b c x y z 07:39
perfect too. Thank you guys!
DrForr No worries. How'd you find out about perl6?
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DrForr (also, that's one of the first mildly annoying things I ran into.) 07:41
Todd_ I got an email from infoworld. I adore Perl5 and LOVE Perl6. Some Perl5 guys are crabby about Perl6, but I seriously don't get it. P6 is a beautiful clean up of P5, especially the stone age/assembly code like data transfer to subs. 07:43
DrForr Oo, Infoworld, I used to get their magazines when they were in print. 07:45
Todd_ And I get what I was doing wrong. I was placing the entire @y into the next element of @x. No soup for me!
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DrForr Yeah, it's a little confusing because the semantics of push() didn't change, how arrays behave changed. 07:45
Todd_ Inforworld is mostly publish or perish and doesn't have a lot of good stuff, just rehash. But sometimes, they can be of use. 07:46
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Todd_ Google and DuckDuckGo has a hard time finding p6 stuff. They think you mispelled P5 07:46
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Woodi re sockets and packets in TCPvsUDP: looks STCP could be used becouse it have UDP packet "semantic". it would be nice if Perl6 was leading in STCP adoption (assuming STCP is good thing) :) 07:47
DrForr I think Google figures you were misspelling Python :)
Todd_ which is why I get array pushing hashes onto arrays, which I can't resist! 07:49
Woodi Todd_: I like Perl5 args transfer :) and being "assembly" is good for potential native code generation :) 07:50
modulo PMC ;)
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Todd_ P5's args are a nightmare for maintaninability. And it drives me nuts having to pass Reference Pointers to arrays and hashes when I mix several variables in the call. P6 is a sub dream come true! 07:52
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Todd_ if it is of any interest to yu guys, I am programing right now over over the Interent with "ssh -X11" and Geany. There is a little drag, but it is usable. 07:56
DrForr I've spent enough time teaching perl5 calling syntax that I really appreciate not having to worry about the referene distinctions. 07:57
*reference
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Todd_ The way I look at it, I am using a high level language for a reason. The purpose is so I can code faster. (I have written in Assembly before. It is super fast and takes super, super longer to write. What a pain in the neck!) 08:00
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Woodi ok, I'm not even a programmer but you didn't convince me (totally), stil like it :) but good points 08:04
btw. do perl5 have a jit ? I didn't hear about... could it help in performance ? 08:05
u-ou what does .= do 08:06
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Woodi u-ou: it's sugar for $x = $x . $y ? ;) 08:08
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u-ou oh right, heh 08:10
Woodi docs.perl6.org/language/operators#postfix_.=
u-ou: good question :) 08:11
samcv i don't think perl 5 has JIT Woodi
Todd_ PrintRed "$Backup is running\n"; exit 1;
samcv they are very different codebases. perl 6 runs on MoarVM which runs generated bytecode (compiled by Rakudo) 08:12
perl 5 is basically a bunch of C code that compiles on the fly, so it's not a great comparison
Todd_ I get the red text, but "exit 1" does not dump me out of the program. What am I doing wrong (I don't want to use "die")
u-ou does rakudo still run on jvm too or just moar
samcv well not totally on the fly, but upon running the file.
rakudo runs on jvm too
Todd_ Indeed. C, less the headache 08:13
samcv it's not as good though
also perl 6 is programmed a lot in perl 6
and also in nqp which is like a bare bones perl 6 scaffolding code. like perl 6 but nothing fancy
u-ou not quite perl
samcv perl 5 is written all in C (i believe)
u-ou what's nqp written in? 08:14
samcv nqp. and uh. magic
u-ou ahh
samcv nqp compiles itself
u-ou nice
samcv which i guess is the magic part of it. when you check out the repository, you get the stage 0 binaries 08:15
err. moarvm bytecode
and rakudo complies itself too
Rakudo is built on perl 6 and nqp, which is built on nqp and moarvm
uhm perl 6 also only requires single pass parsing 08:16
very different from perl 5 in that way
u-ou perl6 is the future 08:17
samcv i think so! and hope so! 08:18
u-ou what major projects are implemented in p6?
(besides itself)
Todd_ from the manual on exit: `Exits the current process with return code $status.` what do they mean by "process"? The sub you are in or the whole program?
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samcv u-ou, perl 6 is the biggest project programmed in perl 6 :) 08:20
though uh. not any major ones anybody would know about 08:21
idk there's web frameworks and some stuff like that
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samcv u-ou, people have implemented their own invented languages in perl 6 as well 08:22
using perl 6's parsing engine with their own syntax
u-ou ahh :) 08:23
samcv Todd_, u-ou modules.perl6.org/#sort-col=3&sort-dir=d
look at most popular plugins
u-ou so it would be good for writing compilers?
I suppose that question's already answered
samcv bailador is the web framework
yeah you can basically even make your own 'slangs' and modify how perl 6 code you write is written 08:24
like alter the parser
u-ou like lisp?
samcv u-ou, this comes to mind github.com/FROGGS/p6-Slang-Tuxic
not like lisp
Todd_ that is a list of moduels and pass fail. What was I suppose to see?
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samcv uh sort by stars 08:25
and just you can look at the list. was meant to give overview of some of the moduling/apps written in perl 6
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samcv reading the grammar tutorial will be educational 08:26
docs.perl6.org/language/grammar_tutorial
Todd_ Construct an insulting epithet in the manner of an old IRC bot
samcv since perl 6 is parsed using grammars
sounds useful
Todd_ bookmarked. Thank you! 08:27
Am I stuck with using "die"?
samcv what are you trying to do? 08:28
throw an error? are you a past perl 5 programmer?
perl 6 will throw and show errors without having to do `condition or die $!` 08:29
though you can catch errors if you want, but they automatically throw
u-ou m: my $a = 1; my $b = :$a; say $b.WHAT
camelia (Pair)
u-ou m: my $a = 1; my $b = :$a; say $b
camelia a => 1
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samcv i have not found a use for that yet. maybe someday. i don't think it's visually evident what it actually does 08:30
but that's just me
m: say :blah, :what 08:31
camelia Unexpected named argument 'blah' passed
in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1
samcv m: say (:blah, :what)
camelia (blah => True what => True)
Todd_ What is the best method of forcing the entire program to terminate
samcv m: say (:blah(False), :what)
camelia (blah => False what => True)
samcv Todd_, exit
well die works too
if you want a backtrace
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u-ou say (:blah('False')) 08:32
m: say (:blah('False'))
camelia blah => False
samcv m: say (:blah(11), :what)
camelia (blah => 11 what => True)
samcv that's most useful specifying command line arguments i think
u-ou m: say (:blah('Fals'))
camelia blah => Fals
u-ou m: say (:blah('Fals')).perl 08:33
camelia :blah("Fals")
samcv sub foo ( Bool :$named-arg = False) { }; foo(:named-arg)
u-ou, that's the most useful spot for that
imo.
Todd_ Ah, short between the headset again. I was in a loop and I had "last" before the "exit". I got rid of the "last" and now it is operating as expected. No soup for me again!
samcv with named arguments
u-ou docs.perl6.org/language/classtut
samcv: see Constructors for an ex
I think I get it now 08:34
samcv ah
yeah
those are named arguments
u-ou so the method takes away the namedness of the arguments
samcv m: sub foo (:$named ) { say $named }; foo(:named('word'))
camelia word
Todd_ Is "last" suppose to go to the "last" element or just exit the loop and not execure anything under it?
samcv see that u-ou 08:35
u-ou aha
samcv Todd_, it exits the current for loop
or while loop etc
u-ou didn't see it could go the other way too!
that's actually quite nice
samcv perl 6 is magic
u-ou, that section on constructors is pretted advanced implementation details 08:36
i mean normally you won't use constructors yourself. ever
you'll declare your classes normally
u-ou so it says
samcv ah. good
Todd_ my misunderstanding. Thank you!
u-ou yeah, i'd just use new
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u-ou but I could see myself wishing for constructors which don't require argument-naming 08:38
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Todd_ Calling it a night. Thank you guys for all the help! 08:52
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u-ou nn 08:53
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nebuchadnezzar hello 08:54
reading some type documentation, I wonder if the “Type graph” could not be displayed before the table of contents… 08:56
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samcv nebuchadnezzar, i have thought similar before 09:09
or maybe right after it or something
higher up at least
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Geth ecosystem: gfldex++ created pull request #312:
add Proc::Async::Timeout		 10:23
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gfldex m: sub f { gather for 1,2,3 { LEAVE say „oi‽“; .take } }; say f; 10:49
camelia oi‽
oi‽
oi‽
(1 2 3)
gfldex this is kind of a superposition of wrong and right 10:50
timotimo m: sub f { for 1, 2, 3 { LEAVE say "oi?"; 1 } }; say f
camelia oi?
oi?
oi?
Nil
timotimo m: for 1, 2, 3 { LEAVE say "oi?"; 1 }
camelia WARNINGS for <tmp>:
Useless use of constant integer 1 in sink context (line 1)
oi?
oi?
oi?
timotimo the block is left every time, even in a basic for loop
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gfldex m: sub f { do for 1, 2, 3 { LEAVE say "oi?"; 1 } }; say f 10:51
camelia oi?
oi?
oi?
(1 1 1)
timotimo nothing to do with continuations here
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timotimo also, when we take continuations, we don't invoke every leave phaser up to the end 10:51
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timotimo we don't have a phaser for that concept at all, i don't think 10:51
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gfldex m: sub f { gather for 1,2,3 { LAST say „oi‽“; .take } }; say f; 10:52
camelia oi‽
(1 2 3)
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gfldex ENEEDMORETEA on my side I guess 10:52
timotimo m: sub f { gather for 1,2,3 { LAST say „oi‽“; .take } }; say f[^1];
camelia (1)
timotimo m: sub f { gather for 1,2,3 { LAST say „oi‽“; .take } }; say f[^3];
camelia (1 2 3)
timotimo m: sub f { gather for 1,2,3 { LAST say „oi‽“; .take } }; say f[^4];
camelia oi‽
(1 2 3 Nil)
timotimo :)
gfldex timotimo: I'm glad you where wrong too :)
timotimo i was wrong? 10:53
sorry, when i said "up to the end" i meant "up to the root"
gfldex timotimo: you where wrong in that Perl 6 doesnt got a phaser for that concept. 10:56
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timotimo you misunderstood my concept 10:56
i meant that we don't have a phaser that runs when a continuation gets taken that includes the frame the phaser is installed for 10:57
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gfldex I really need some tea. :) 10:58
timotimo tea is good 10:59
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nebuchadnezzar Erf, server not found: doc.perl6.org/ → docs.perl6.org/ 11:13
gfldex nebuchadnezzar: works here
nebuchadnezzar gfldex: now it works here too 11:14
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nebuchadnezzar samcv: today it's just after TOC but the TOC can be quite long, for example docs.perl6.org/type/NFD 11:15
gfldex is RTs e-mail pickup broken or just slow? 11:20
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geekosaur only runs every couple hours in my experience 11:35
or maybe it's just slow, but I always seem to get perl RT mail in batches
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Ulti WRT www.learningperl6.com/2017/03/23/close-enough/ is there any reason we dont include all the superscript constants as exponentiators? 11:45
I guess it means superscript i in the metadata from unicode doesnt include a numeric value 11:47
or that i specifically is Complex I guess makes it special cased
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Ulti oh there is no pi its just i 11:54
SmokeMachine m: say (:!bla) 11:58
camelia bla => False
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DrForr Sadly there is no superscript π, just looked. 12:23
Ulti yeah
its weird
DrForr Otherwise e<sup>iπ</sup>-1==0 # could be a valid equation.
Ulti its not used in IPA I guess
kind of surprised there isnt a generic character you use in combination for sub and sup 12:24
DrForr Nope, thought of that too. TURNED ALPHA is the closest there.
Ulti 1 2 and 3 as superscript are in the latin block too away from all the others
for some reason there is n as well as i
DrForr Well, as long as ½τ==π (which it does, as long as you use INVISIBLE TIMES) I'm happy ) 12:25
s/.$/:)/
timotimo "can't find variable ½τ, if you want to multiply τ by ½, please write ½ 12:27
please write ½τ instead"
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DrForr As long as you use \c[INVISIBLE TIMES] between 1/2 and tau and define infix:<<\c[INVISIBLE TIMES]>>{[*]@_} :) 12:29
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DrForr (as I alluded to) 12:30
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Ulti can you use unicode solidus for division too? 12:32
DrForr If it's not there you can probably create an infix for it. 12:33
timotimo right 12:34
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Geth ecosystem: 35ae67d04f | (Wenzel P. P. Peppmeyer)++ | META.list
add Proc::Async::Timeout (#312)
 12:57
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Voldenet What's a good way to use two-way pipe-like communication in perl6? 13:03
I think I could use two channels, but maybe there's better way
[Coke] news.perlfoundation.org/2017/03/new...r-sec.html 13:04
gfldex m: say "⁢".uniname
camelia INVISIBLE TIMES
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gfldex m: say 4⁢2; 13:05
camelia 5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>
Bogus postfix
at <tmp>:1
------> 3say 47⏏5⁢2;
expecting any of:
infix
infix stopper
postfix
statement end
statement modifier
st…
timotimo Voldenet: two channels is the simplest thing, but maybe you can re-order your whole thing to use a simpler idiom?
gfldex m: multi sub infix:<⁢>(\a, \b){ a * b }; say 4⁢2; 13:06
camelia 8
Voldenet Well, what I want is basically two-way pubsub, no real way around it I guess
gfldex copypasta of "⁢" is really hard :->
timotimo yes
Voldenet Okay, since I'm full of questions, there's a bonus one 13:08
m: "gżegżółka".encode('ISO-8859-2').say
camelia Unknown string encoding: 'iso-8859-2'
in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1
raschipi Voldenet: fire away
Voldenet How can I add my own encoding? :)
I could probably use libiconv somehow 13:09
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timotimo you can't add custom encoders/decoders yet, but work on that is under way 13:10
so until then you'll have to do stuff like encode it to utf8 and nativecall into (for example) libiconv
raschipi timotimo: Or he could send a patch so that P6does what he wants? Or would it be turned down? 13:11
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timotimo it'd be a patch to moarvm 13:12
Voldenet Uhm, I actually wouldn't mind getting a patch into moarvm for that, but I was going for the hacky way
also, perl6 might choose to implement it from scratch
instead of using iconv, which might not be very multiplatform choice
s/perl6/moarvm/ 13:13
timotimo yeah, moarvm wouldn't use iconv at all
you can't really steal from the latin1 implementation because that basically just 1:1's unicode codepoints 13:14
lizmat fwiw, I think we want to include all of the 8859 encodings out of the box
timotimo maybe, they are similar enough to be easy-ish to implement
just have a bunch of tables
lizmat and I think that's been done in P5 already as well :-) 13:15
timotimo we can't steal from the perl5 implementation, though?
it's probably too different?
lizmat probably, but the tables would be there :-)
Voldenet you could generate perl6 with perl5
lizmat and in a form that could be easily mangled
Voldenet now that's 5m4a7g8i3c ;)
lizmat Voldenet: indeed 13:16
timotimo well, you can also just use Inline::Perl5 :) 13:17
Voldenet :>
now that's the hack I'd try to avoid
lizmat being able to support all of the encodings that P5 supports, would seem like a worthy goal and relatively LHF 13:19
afk again&
timotimo EBCDIC :) :)
DrForr Well, Perl::ToPerl6 generates Perl6 frm Perl 5 :) (albeit badly, and haven't worked much on it recently...)
raschipi timotimo: All EBCDICS? There's more than one. And 6-bit encodings? 13:20
Voldenet I hope we get ITA2 support in case I need to talk to someone in the past
raschipi "You are in a maze of twisty little encodings, all alike" 13:21
DrForr UTF-94LYF
Voldenet I didn't know utf had such standards
timotimo are 6-bit encodings tightly packed or does every unit have 2 padding bits at the end of it?
Voldenet probably they are packed only when they're transported over the wire 13:22
I don't think 8n-bit cpus are good at handling 6-bit texts
timotimo yeah
DrForr: UTF-94 sounds very wasteful :)
raschipi They were used to fit 6 charachters into a 36 bit word in 36 bit computers 13:23
Voldenet now base65536 is a cool stuff though
DrForr UTF9 was a joke RFC, but I still have a back-burner notion to implement the bastard :)
raschipi 36 bit computers had a 6 character limit on file names to be able to fit them into a single word 13:24
source: www.catb.org/esr/faqs/things-every-...-once-knew
chansen_ Unicode provides mappings for all ISO 8859 encodings, www.unicode.org/Public/MAPPINGS/ISO8859/ 13:25
timotimo cool, we can use those to generate our code
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raschipi Then there's also the uncommon non-joke Unicode encodings, like SCSU, BOCU-1, UTF-1, UTF-7, UTF-EBCDIC, GB18030 and Punycode. 13:44
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timotimo hm, punycode is really only meant for short strings, no? 13:44
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timotimo and not suited for streaming? 13:44
raschipi It's used to write internationalized domain names 13:45
timotimo i know 13:46
raschipi I don't know if it's suitable for streaming, or how does it compare to Base64
Don't know if it's MIME safe either. 13:47
timotimo i believe punycode slurps up all non-7bit characters while going through the string and then it gets appended to the string
"it" being the state of the state machine 13:48
so if you want to stream some text over a wire, you'll get only the ascii parts until the stream ends 13:50
and then you'll get a whole blob of insertions you have to do throughout that ascii part
raschipi Yep, section 3.1 of RFC3492
timotimo i'd say "module space" for that
huggable: eco punycode
huggable timotimo, nothing found
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timotimo which bot does eco again? :\ 13:50
buggable: eco punycode 13:51
buggable timotimo, IDNA::Punycode 'Punycode implementation according to RFC3492': github.com/FROGGS/p6-IDNA-Punycode
raschipi Very easy to implement, though. 13:52
timotimo yeah, just "use IDNA::Punycode" :P
raschipi buggable: eco IDNA 13:53
buggable raschipi, IDNA::Punycode 'Punycode implementation according to RFC3492': github.com/FROGGS/p6-IDNA-Punycode
pmurias is UTF-1 used for anything? 13:54
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raschipi pmurias: No, UTF-8 was created to fix it. 13:55
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Geth ecosystem: 91a8972780 | (Zoffix Znet)++ | META.list
s/META.info/META6.json/

For:
  - drforr/perl6-readline
  - drforr/perl6-Inline-Scheme-Guile		 14:05
DrForr Sigh. I really need to get that Dist::6Zilla or whatever done. 14:08
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raschipi Did zoffix stopped being so rude? Will he come back? 14:12
DrForr Waitaminnit, rude? 14:13
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raschipi Wasn't the problem that he was rude when people disagreed with his proposed solutions? 14:16
DrForr I haven't been watching closely enough. 14:17
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DrForr And that was just in reaction to "Woops, forgot to update that repo as well..., boy, wish there were an automator for that. Oh, right, was planning to do that." 14:18
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b2gills raschipi: Zoffix never left, he just kept changing his nick 14:21
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[Coke] He's right behind me, isn't he? 14:24
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AlexDaniel heh… well… Firefox now requires pulseaudio 14:37
so should I install pulseaudio or switch to another browser? Hmmmm… tough choice
raschipi b2gills: K 14:39
skids switch. 14:47
That's what I'll be doing eventually. Never pulseaudio ever again.
It has burned way too much of my time, it is cut off.
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raschipi Other browsers will soon follow suit. Everything but Pulse and Jack has been left to rot. 14:49
skids Hopefully I'll be able to find something with a separate and persistent search term entry box.
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skids Well, I wouldn't mind jack but I'm kinda getting sick of having repatch it to diable dbus and get it running as a system daemon again. 14:50
AlexDaniel skids: I'll try using pulseaudio for now. I'd say it at least deserves a chance…
raschipi Even Jack will soon stop maintaining their Pulse-less mode.
AlexDaniel skids: using chromium is not a real choice for me giving that my keyboard layout is simply not working there… 14:51
skids Looks like I'll be patching browsers, instead, then.
Oh yeah, emacs keybindings probably are going to be another PITA to find.
raschipi skids: Firefox still has the code to work without Pulse, but one has to build it from source to activate it.
skids Yeah but they'll be excluding that code soon enough. 14:52
I simply do not understand why we can run a display server as a system service, but an audio server can;t hack that. 14:53
raschipi What? Both X.org and Wayland run as user services and there has been significant work to make they run without suid root. 14:54
Why do you think they run outside the user session?
skids I want daemons to be able to make sounds when I'm logged out.
raschipi Pulse does have a system-mode. Which distro are you using 14:55
?
skids Debian.
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raschipi It even had a bug where it spilled it's own configuration on / when running on system mode. 14:55
skids But I'm never touching Pulse again, I'm fully convinced it's evil. You know hwt has "system mode?" ALSA.
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raschipi Well, the ALSA sound server is buggy, difficult to use and lacking many features users expect. It will be abandoned soon. 15:03
Voldenet Hm, how do I use destructors in perl6 (or more on the topic - can I add some async cleanup to the end of the async block, because this wouldn't be possible in destructors?) 15:11
raschipi Voldenet: when do you want them to be called?
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Voldenet hm, at the end of the given block, would be best 15:12
start { my $res = await resources(); await do($res); }
but then resources are sockets, so they need to be closed, which I'd prefer to have automatic 15:13
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raschipi There's a LEAVE phaser, that will execute when leaving a block: docs.perl6.org/language/phasers#LEAVE 15:13
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Voldenet Nice, can I await in LEAVE block? 15:14
s/block/phaser/
raschipi You mean in the sense of blocking?
Block the process waiting?
Voldenet something like that:
raschipi Try it and tell me. 15:15
Voldenet start { my $res = await resources(); await do($res); await cleanup($res); }
AlexDaniel you can do whatever you want in LEAVE
jnthn Don't think I've ever done await in a LEAVE block, but can't think of any reason why it wouldn't work :)
Voldenet wow, it's magic, it actually works :) 15:16
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AlexDaniel jnthn: re RT #131003: I tried commenting out gumbo_destroy_output and it still crashes. Didn't have time to catch in under valgrind this way though, but it feels that there's something else going on 15:17
synopsebot6 Link: rt.perl.org/rt3/Public/Bug/Display...?id=131003
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raschipi This table should be updated to include RakudoJS: perl6.org/compilers/features 15:49
perlpilot raschipi: the repo is listed at the bottom of the page. Make a PR 15:51
Though looking at it, that page hasn't been kept up-to-date anyway. 15:52
skids AlexDaniel: I hate browser shopping but did some anyway. Gonna drive qupzilla around the block a bit. 15:53
AlexDaniel skids: interesting 15:54
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jnthn AlexDaniel: OK, all further golfing efforts on it welcome until I find some time to try and reproduce/explore it myself (as usual, I've a pile of stuff to work on :)) 16:02
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gfldex DrForr: to be fair, we didn't do a good job at advertising github.com/jonathanstowe/Test-META 16:10
DrForr No worries. 16:12
raschipi masak: How is the work on macros going? 16:13
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Voldenet Is there any way to ensure that the some method is given proper lambda method? 17:16
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perlpilot "proper lambda method"? 17:19
Voldenet something like: sub execute(Sub[Int, :returns Int] &code) returns Int { &code(2); }
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perlpilot I don't know if it works like that, but surely you can use a where clause to check the signature of the thing passed 17:20
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gfldex Voldenet: see docs.perl6.org/type/Signature#Cons..._Callables 17:21
Voldenet That's the syntax I was looking for, thanks
perlpilot ah, gfldex++
Voldenet gfldex++
perlpilot needs to do more Perl 6 so that some of this "edge" info migrates closer to the "center" in my brain 17:22
Voldenet has given up on trying to know all of it
17:23 Sound left
gfldex perlpilot: i found it useful to remeber where to find stuff in to docs :) 17:23
SmokeMachine ugexe: hi! i was brainstorming about zen, and got a idea that I tried to PoC... its not done and probably its not even working... bu could you tell me what you think please? github.com/FCO/zef/commit/607cf49e...9c2173bb3c
perlpilot I don't need to know all of it right off, but if there's a path to such information in my brain, that's preferable.
gfldex: Aye, that's a very good strategy. :) 17:24
SmokeMachine .tell ugexe: hi! i was brainstorming about zen, and got a idea that I tried to PoC... its not done and probably its not even working... bu could you tell me what you think please? github.com/FCO/zef/commit/607cf49e...9c2173bb3c 17:27
yoleaux SmokeMachine: What kind of a name is "ugexe:"?!
gfldex SmokeMachine: he seams to have taken it from the same book then I did :)
SmokeMachine .tell ugexe hi! i was brainstorming about zen, and got a idea that I tried to PoC... its not done and probably its not even working... bu could you tell me what you think please? github.com/FCO/zef/commit/607cf49e...9c2173bb3c
yoleaux SmokeMachine: I'll pass your message to ugexe.
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ugexe SmokeMachine: I'm not against exposing something like that, but the solution should try to avoid the need to duplicate the signatures in yet another spot. The thing is - they definitely have to go in the &MAIN signature so they show up for USAGE stuff... so you could just use `sub zef-whatever(%_) { ... }` except all the logic is now the `...` and has to use %_ instead of named variables 17:49
yoleaux 17:27Z <SmokeMachine> ugexe: hi! i was brainstorming about zen, and got a idea that I tried to PoC... its not done and probably its not even working... bu could you tell me what you think please? github.com/FCO/zef/commit/607cf49e...9c2173bb3c
17:50 jraglin_ joined
ugexe the other key thing is that only &MAIN should be printing to stdout, exiting, or aborting. zef-* commands would communicate through a Supply still (Zef::Client.logger) 17:54
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SmokeMachine ugexe: what do you think about use the help message as usage? like this: github.com/FCO/zef/commit/64a46aaf...8907c53264 18:54
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tony-o hiker should be up to snuff for the upcoming `require` scoping changes 19:00
for those following along
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m44st4 ptain c'est quoi ces gadgets en carton mouillé pour le rop arm basic 19:02
j'ai mal
sorry wrong channel 19:03
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AlexDaniel huggable: bots 19:37
huggable AlexDaniel, The #perl6 irc channel normally hosts several helpful bots. I am a bot, and everyone else voiced on this channel is a bot. See the full list here: github.com/perl6/doc/issues/711#is...-235414744
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geekosaur we're bebotted 19:42
lizmat so much better than botoxed :-) 19:43
ingy needs to retox 19:50
too early here...
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ingy they tried to send me back to retox, and I said: Yes. Yes. Yes. 19:51
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mst ingy: I quit drinking once 20:04
ingy: it was the worst 20 minutes of my life
ingy ba-dum
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perlpilot Surely you quit drinking every day ... it's called "sleep" 20:08
perigrin IV 20:16
ugexe SmokeMachine: that doesnt help for incorrect options/flags
or maybe I misunderstand... what does that change? 20:18
lizmat SmokeMachine: welcome!
geekosaur *was* angling toward "besotted"... in its older meaning 20:19
hobbs I think you can still use "sotted" that way 20:21
lizmat oddly enough, "zot" is "fool" in flemish 20:22
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AlexDaniel hm, so we have less than 10% of bots here 20:24
clearly need more 20:25
raschipi We need ALL the Bots!
SmokeMachine ugexe: I think I was confused... sorry... looks that doesn't change anything... sorry! 20:27
lizmat: thanks! :)
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masak raschipi: the work on macros is time-constrained but going well, I'd say 20:42
raschipi: I got a couple commits into 007 yesterday
raschipi Well, I'm glad you're still at it. Time constrained isn't a big problem because I don't think anyone is pushing to release 6.d anytime soon. 20:44
masak at this point, I'm not willing to target any particular 6.* release anyway 20:45
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raschipi Is it working like you want in 007? 20:45
mst I sincerely doubt this could get banged out for 6.d without regretting it 20:46
unless 6.d takes significantly longer than I'd expect
the above statement is about the nature of the task rather than any form of criticism
if you let me imagine a world where I could pick a team of people to work on it full time, I'd believe the same thing in that world, due to the "needs real use by varied users" part 20:47
masak raschipi: no, not yet. but mostly because of said time constraint.
perlpilot Perl 6 has never rushed before, why would we start now?
raschipi Well, other groups were unable to do it in decades, so it's natural to expect the same time horizon for P6. This isn't criticism, anything shorter than that will just show you guys are awesomer.
masak not sure why people are suddenly talking about rushing 20:48
haven't been rushing macros so far ;)
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geekosaur "never rushed before" where were you before Christmas? 20:48
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geekosaur we're *still* paying for that to some extent 20:49
mst I think perlpilot and I both took raschipi's 6.d comments to imply a shorter development time scale than we should realistically expect
and therein the confusion
masak geekosaur: I think we're talking about two different things
raschipi Well, I didn't mean it should be released with 6.d, just that it would be released *at least* with 6.d. Or later.
masak geekosaur: I've been thinking about, and implementing, macros for Perl 6 since late 2011 20:50
mst geekosaur: drawing a line in the sand at -some- point had to be done, though - I don't think there'd've likely been any less rush with another year spent waiting
perlpilot indeed
mst or at least, not enough less to justify the opportunity cost
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masak raschipi: I'll happily discuss with you some of the challenges inherent in introducing macros. 20:54
it's a little bit hard to summarize, but I feel I have a pretty good grip on it nowadays. 20:55
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raschipi What's out of shape in 007 macros still? 20:56
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masak raschipi: a big thing to land still is `is parsed` 20:57
which will enable some of the cooler language hacking
until then, macros are mostly just compile-time subs and operators
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raschipi Do you have a link about it? 20:58
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perlpilot masak: Did you realize at the beginning that you would become the chief-explainer of Perl 6 macros for life? :) 21:07
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lizmat and the chief-architect ? :-) 21:09
and the chief macro grantee ? :-) *nudge nudge* :-) 21:10
hankache hola #perl6 21:12
raschipi heya
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SmokeMachine star: use JSON::Class; class C is JSON::Class {has Str %.bla{subset :: of Str where any <bla ble>}}; C.from-json: ｢{"bla": {"ble": "bli"}}｣ 21:26
camelia ===SORRY!===
Could not find JSON::Class at line 1 in:
/home/camelia/.perl6
/home/camelia/star-2016.10/share/perl6/site
/home/camelia/star-2016.10/share/perl6/vendor
/home/camelia/star-2016.10/share/perl6
CompUnit::Repository::…
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masak perlpilot: don't remember. probably I didn't think about it much. 21:50
perlpilot: but it was definitely a case of "hey, I've been waiting for macros for so long now, better do something about them"
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Todd_ Hi All! I have a program running in Linux that is called by /etc/crontab. Problem: the program crashes when run by cron if I "print" in color. Works fine from the command line. Looking over file:///home/CDs/Keepers/Linux/perl/Perl6.Variables.html#Compile-time_variables I am not finding anything that tells me who called the program. Is there a way to tell if the program is called by cron or from the command line? 23:34
samcv made a repository to carry out my unicode tests of different scripts github.com/samcv/UCD-tests will accumulate a bunch of things and hopefully will merge it into roast when it is mature 23:35
TimToady Todd_: you could probably look at the environment variables to determine whether it was started by a shell or by cron 23:36
cron tends to have far fewer envvars
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geekosaur Todd_, what you probably want is $*OUT.t 23:38
since the real question is whether output goes to a terminal for which color is appropriate
Todd_ I want to shut off printing when I am call by cron. $TERM has promise. How do I dig it out of %*ENV ? 23:39
TimToady what geekosaur said 23:40
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geekosaur %*ENV<TERM>:exists && %*ENV<TERM> ne 'dumb' 23:40
Todd_ appropriate is probably why I am having the issue. Since I am Top Down, my color printing is all in subs. So I will be very easy to shut off printing wne the term is inaproproate
testing 23:41
geekosaur but I'd want to dsable it whenever output is to a file, so the .t check seems better to me
(if you ever load such a file with color into an editor, you will see why :)
Todd_ Term is empty. Thank you guys! 23:46
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