»ö« Welcome to Perl 6! | perl6.org/ | evalbot usage: 'p6: say 3;' or rakudo:, or /msg camelia p6: ... | irclog: irc.perl6.org or colabti.org/irclogger/irclogger_logs/perl6 | UTF-8 is our friend!
Set by moritz on 22 December 2015.
AlexDaniel parv: like, I have no designer degree, I have no idea if that is going to make things better or worse :) 00:00
parv AlexDaniel: neither do i (have design degree). i could try in GIMP but that is not vector based software. is there other vector based software to run on FreeBSD or CentoS 6.8 which would install without hassle? 00:02
AlexDaniel parv: inkscape 00:03
MasterDuke krita maybe if you use kde
yoleaux 17 Jul 2017 15:44Z <AlexDaniel> MasterDuke: Malformed UTF-8 issue does not seem to be CATCH-able. I didn't really dive into this, but I guess if it happens in Proc::Async somewhere then you won't be able to handle it (as it is in a different thread)?
17 Jul 2017 16:49Z <AlexDaniel> MasterDuke: nevermind. It's just that I'm an idiot: irclog.perlgeek.de/perl6-dev/2017-...i_14882744
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AlexDaniel MasterDuke: do they have proper svg support nowadays? 00:03
Zoffix TEttinger: comb is because you "comb for stuff" with it
parv AlexDaniel: i will see (but please be pessimistic).
AlexDaniel parv: don't worry, I am… :) 00:04
parv he he he
MasterDuke: i avoid kde & gnome system wherever i can (... but just may be work 'puter ... ) 00:05
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timotimo AlexDaniel, MasterDuke, krita is getting a full vector graphics overhaul at the moment 00:10
you can get a dev build for krita 4 which already has the svg stuff 00:11
before that krita used ODG vector stuff internally
MasterDuke odg? 00:12
parv openoffice thing? 00:13
timotimo yup 00:14
open document graphic? 00:15
parv remembers the file suffix used by (open|libre)office but had forgotten the origin 00:16
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Geth_ whateverable: fae0078848 | (Aleks-Daniel Jakimenko-Aleksejev)++ | 2 files
Move markdown escaping to Misc.pm6

Because this way we will be able to reuse this terrible hack later.		 00:36
lookatme morning 00:41
dudz morning 00:42
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nicq20 Why is there no `add_method` for role HOWs? 01:35
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lookatme nicq20, there no document about role HOW. 01:48
:(
nicq20 Err sorry, should have been more descriptive. I'm mostly curious as to why the `add_method` method does not work with roles. 01:52
seatek i'm pretty sure that role are immutable 01:53
that's what lets them get 'substituted' in so easily into classes
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ugexe m: role Foo { .^add_method("foo", { say 1 }) }; class Bar does Foo { }; Bar.foo; # but it can look like it does 02:28
camelia 1
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BenGoldberg m: role Foo { dd .HOW }; 03:00
camelia ( no output )
BenGoldberg m: role Foo { dd .HOW }; Foo.new;
camelia Perl6::Metamodel::ClassHOW.new
BenGoldberg m: role Foo { dd .HOW }; class Bar does Foo {};
camelia Perl6::Metamodel::ClassHOW.new
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BenGoldberg m: role Foo { dd .HOW }; class Bar does Foo {}; class Baz does Foo {}; 03:01
camelia Perl6::Metamodel::ClassHOW.new
Perl6::Metamodel::ClassHOW.new
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BenGoldberg Oooh, I see. The role's body block is executed at *class* composition time. Specifically, every time any class which does the role is composed. Neat. 03:03
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evanm Hi, can someone explain the following discrepancy to me? 03:26
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evanm m: my int @ints = (1, 2, 3); say @ints[0].WHERE == @ints[0].WHERE 03:26
camelia True
evanm m: my num @blarg = (1e0, 2e0, 3e0); say @blarg[0].WHERE == @blarg[0].WHERE
camelia False
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lookatme evanm, it coercion 1e0 to num, so everytime access it produce a temporary value 03:34
I guess
geekosaur more likely from num to Num but in this situation that is arguably a bug 03:35
lookatme m: my num32 @blarg = (1e0, 2e0, 3e0); say @blarg[0].WHERE == @blarg[0].WHERE 03:36
camelia False
lookatme m: my @blarg = (1e0, 2e0, 3e0); say @blarg[0].WHERE; say @blarg[0].WHERE
camelia 140147420120160
140147420120160
geekosaur I think int used to have the same issue, and it's not really fixed properly, just hacked around until someone figures out how to do it properly
that is, it's boxing it on retrieval
lookatme Oh
But we should not write code depend on .WHERE, right ? 03:37
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evanm Thanks, that explains it at least 03:38
geekosaur right 03:39
but autoboxing like that can cause unexpected performance issues
lookatme yeah, I know
geekosaur and you kinda want something like .WHERE to not give you the address of a box that you told it not to make
lookatme Hmm 03:40
geekosaur so: this is a bug but it may be difficult to fix because natives still behave a bit oddly with respect to picking candidate methods iirc
there's a hack in place for int/Int but not sure it will work for num/Num 03:41
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evanm Someone said earlier that native shaped arrays are guaranteed contiguous storage; is there a way to see that somehow (maybe with WHERE)? 03:46
geekosaur probably not; the array itself has a .WHERE, for native arrays there are no separate containers with their own .WHERE 03:49
I think
evanm m: my int @ints = (1, 2, 3); say @ints[0].WHERE; say @ints[1].WHERE 03:51
camelia 140580465117080
140580465117120
evanm m: my int @ints = (1, 2, 3); say @ints[1].WHERE - @ints[0].WHERE 03:52
camelia 40
evanm What am I looking at here? Does the 40 byte offset mean anything in particular?
geekosaur I think at this point you need to talk to jnthn or someone else who knows how the memory management works 03:53
I know only up to a point, and we're past it :/
evanm geekosaur: ok, thanks. Well I don't want to bother people who are busy, just trying to get a handle on things 03:55
hobbs 40 wouldn't seem very contiguous 03:56
and on my build (which is around a month old, granted) I get -40 :)
geekosaur right, one question I am not sure of here is whether native arrays have containers or not; if they do, the containers may be contiguous but their contents likely are not 03:57
but I just don't know
evanm All right, well I have another headscratcher 04:00
m: my $v1 = 10; my $v2 = 20; ($v2, $v1) = (30, 40); say $v2 04:01
camelia 30
evanm my $v1 = 10; my $v2 = 20; my $v3 = 30; (($v2, $v1), $v3) = ((40, 50), 60); say $v2; 04:02
m: my $v1 = 10; my $v2 = 20; my $v3 = 30; (($v2, $v1), $v3) = ((30, 40), 60); say $v
camelia 5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>
Variable '$v' is not declared
at <tmp>:1
------> 3(($v2, $v1), $v3) = ((30, 40), 60); say 7⏏5$v
evanm m: my $v1 = 10; my $v2 = 20; my $v3 = 30; (($v2, $v1), $v3) = ((30, 40), 60); say $v2
camelia (30 40)
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evanm I.e. why are the semantics of assigning to (($v2, $v1), $v3) apparently different from assigning to just ($v2, $v1) 04:03
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evanm In the case of (($v2, $v1), $v3), $v2 gets a List when I'd expect it to get a value 04:04
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tony-o i'd expect that if you assigned did (($v2, $v1), $v3) = (|(1, 2), 3); 04:26
m: my $v1 = 10; my $v2 = 20; my $v3 = 30; (($v2, $v1), $v3) = (|(30, 40), 60); say $v2;
camelia 30
tony-o the left is "flattened", the right isn't 04:27
evanm Why the difference wrt flattening? Seems to screw up destructuring assignment
tony-o on the left you can't assign to an arbitrary sequence, on the right you're assigning a sequence to whatever is on the left. i'm not sure i'm saying that in correct p6y terms 04:29
if you flatten the Seq with the pipe, it assigns as expected
evanm Right, I'm just curious why this design decision was made 04:31
It seems like a nested lvalue should either mimic the structure of the rvalue or else produce an error 04:33
I see how to work around it with the pipe but I'm not sure I understand the motivation for flattening the lvalue 04:34
lookatme m: my $v1 = 10; my $v2 = 20; my $v3 = 30; (($v2, $v1), $v3) := ((30, 40), 60); say $v2 04:42
camelia 5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>
Cannot use bind operator with this left-hand side
at <tmp>:1
------> 3 30; (($v2, $v1), $v3) := ((30, 40), 60)7⏏5; say $v2
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evanm I'll ask again in the morning! 04:46
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Geth_ whateverable: b03eb154ba | (Aleks-Daniel Jakimenko-Aleksejev)++ | t/committable.t
Increase timeouts in committable tests

More releases = more time it takes to run something on all releases.		 07:41
whateverable: dc4ac484d0 | (Aleks-Daniel Jakimenko-Aleksejev)++ | 4 files
Gist exceptions (resolves issue #106)

Whenever some exception was thrown, bots used to simply ignore what happened and not report back with anything. With this commit not only we catch exceptions, but also:
  * Gist them and provide a link.
  * Notify maintainers on #whateverable channel.
... (42 more lines)
AlexDaniel 42 more lines xD
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moritz AlexDaniel++ 07:47
yoleaux 17 Jul 2017 21:51Z <Zoffix> moritz: so I talked to people in #maria and one of the suggestions was to change ilbot/blob/master/lib/Ilbot/Backend/SQL.pm:40 to $_[0]->do( 'set names utf8' ); instead of the mysql-specific thing there. Is that code used to store data from IRC too tho? I popped open the db and done `select * from ilbot_lines where id = 14879831 limit 50;` and there's garbage up in there even if I do set names utf8 in the
17 Jul 2017 21:52Z <Zoffix> moritz: client. So perhaps we need the set names utf8 thing some other place too?
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moritz Zoffix: we must conserve the same format that the old 1.5M lines of logged data use, even if that looks like garbage 07:49
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lizmat clickbaits p6weekly.wordpress.com/2017/07/17/...-released/ 08:03
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llfourn takes the bait 08:05
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lookatme lizmat++ 08:06
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nine How can I influence the sort order of objects of my class? 08:42
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moritz you can write an infix:<cmp> multi for it 09:10
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lookatme nine, overload some compare operator 09:10
abraxxa I can reproduce the test failure of DOM::Tiny 09:11
zostay: if you want me to check it now
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abraxxa zostay: paste.scsys.co.uk/564629 09:12
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jsimonet p6: my $a = 3.3; say $a.WHAT; ($a / 0).say; 09:24
camelia (Rat)
Attempt to divide 33 by zero using div
in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1
jsimonet 33 !% 3.3 09:29
33 != 3.3
nine m: class Foo { has $.bar }; multi infix:<cmp>(Foo $a, Foo $b) { say "cmp $a $b"; $a.bar cmp $b.bar }; my @a = Foo.new(:bar<b>), Foo.new(:bar<a>); @a.sort.say 09:30
camelia (Foo.new(bar => "b") Foo.new(bar => "a"))
nine moritz: ^^^ the multi doesn't get picked apparently
Presumably because it's not in method sort's lexical scope 09:31
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jnthn :by(&infix:<cmp>) iirc 09:36
Oh, actually just .sort(&infix:<cmp>) 09:37
To give it the version in scope
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nine Oh god damnit, &by is a positional. I tried it as a named, thought that maybe it's not "by" at all, looked in the docs, saw "by" and didn't notice that it's just not a named 09:39
Btw. how do I get out of a react {} loop from a whenever block? return gives a "MoarVM panic: Internal error: Unwound entire stack and missed handler". last doesn't do anything 09:41
And in a whenever signal(SIGINT) { } I can't call .done because I don't have a reference to the Supply 09:42
jnthn done 09:43
nine Ah, so close again :) Thanks jnthn++
jnthn It's a control exception; after done it tears down all of the other subscriptions you may have and nothing will run in that react block instance again. 09:44
nine Shouldn't we err... react to a "return" in just the same way? 09:45
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nine At least we shouldn't have MoarVM panic I guess :) 09:47
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jnthn Yeah, that's a bit surprising in that I'd have expected us to report "return outside of routine" 09:47
Not sure we should overload return with double-meanings... 09:48
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Zoffix moritz: I'm not following. 10:10
moritz: the encoding is broken in the database itself. Even old, pre-upgrade entries are brokne. 10:11
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Geth doc: 6136eaabb6 | (Zoffix Znet)++ (committed using GitHub Web editor) | doc/Type/Any.pod6
s/&by/&custom-routine-to-use/

To avoid people thinking it's a named arg.		 10:16
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Geth doc: 04aaed60ab | (Zoffix Znet)++ | 2 files
s/&by/&custom-routine-to-use/

To avoid people thinking it's a named arg.		 10:20
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Ulti I know this is a contentious issue but could someone explain specifically what problem the rename "Rakudo Perl 6" or "Pumpkin Perl 5" is meant to solve? Feels like the number issue is there and the confusion with what's "perl" when someone say comes to /r/perl or #perl 10:31
is it simply to just add some level of they're different dont expect continuous perl'ness? 10:32
because Im not sure it really does much to add to that and in a lot of ways makes things even more confusing by adding two made up words to the front of a recognisable one 10:33
feels like anyone who knows what Pumpkin or Rakudo is meant to be all about would have a good idea of what Perl 6 is with respect to Perl 5 already everyone else is just left even more confused 10:37
Zoffix Ulti: rakudo.party/post/The-Hot-New-Lang...forthought 10:38
In a perfect world, it wouldn't have "Perl" anything in the name, but some core memebers think it does good.
moritz Zoffix: yes, and that means we can't just change the code to write in a different format to it 10:40
Zoffix: either the whole database has to be recoded, or the code that reads from the database needs to deal with the brokenness
nadim morning, when using dd to dump data, what's the difference between ('', '') and $('', '') ? IE what does the $ denote? 10:42
Zoffix nadim: scalar container
m: (('', ''), 42).flat.say
camelia ( 42)
Zoffix m: ($('', ''), 42).flat.say
camelia (( ) 42)
Juerd It feels like 'say' rarely dwim :( 10:43
It's too structured/decorated for output to end users, but not detailed enough for myself when debugging. 10:44
Juerd liked it when it was still just print with a newline
jnthn Juerd: There's "put" for that
nadim Juerd: a single "\n" makes your data too structured/details and not detailled enough when you don't use it?! 10:45
Juerd jnthn: Oh, wow, I didn't know. Thanks :)
nadim m: print "hello" ;
camelia hello
Juerd nadim: The () make it not very useful for output for humans, and as a programmer I want more detail (separators) 10:46
Separators that aren't whitespace, specifically
nadim m: (1, 2, 3).perl 10:47
camelia ( no output )
nadim m: (1, 2, 3).perl.say
camelia (1, 2, 3)
Ulti Zoffix kind of tempted to create a massive practical joke on Hacker News... create a shiny looking single page site advertising a great new language "Rakudo" point at some forked repos with any mention of Perl 6 removed and see if everyone starts going nuts. Then just time it out so it just phases everything back to Perl 6 once you have mindshare.
Juerd Yep, I use dd and .perl for debugging
I'm not complaining about the lack of options, I'm just noting that I fail to see a good use case for 'say'.
But it seems to be the most used printing operator somehow :) 10:48
Zoffix Ulti: people won't magically start going nuts over a language just because you changed the name. 10:49
Ulti could even copy over every commit scrubbed of mentions to Perl 6 and see how long it takes anyone to notice the same authors commit to Perl 6
Zoffix I think you'd be surprised just how many people dismiss anything Perl
nadim I have difficulties with dd and .perl. works fine with a few wlwmnts then may brain needs more clarity
Zoffix It doesn't mean they want to go nuts over some unheard name.
Ulti no but they might over the actual functionality of Perl 6 thats kind of my point 10:50
Zoffix My point is just changing the name won't magically make Rakudo a #1 sought after language.
nadim Juerd: there is Data::Dump ; Data::Pretty::Print, and Data::Dump::Tree,
Ulti the whole issue of marketing is people dont get to the point of even checking it out
nadim Juerd: my preference going to the last one because I eat my own dog food
Juerd nadim: Again, I was not complaining about a lack of options.
nadim :)
Ulti Zoffix my point is hide the provenance of the language to see if that does affect peoples opinion just publishing a post about the difference in attention would be quite interesting and a good critique of how stupid trends in programming have become 10:51
nadim I have opted for showing structured data even to the end user, adn now and then "say" something
Zoffix :| 10:52
Ulti I remember when someone first showed me some FORTRAN when I didnt know it was FORTRAN I couldnt work out what this elegant compiled language was.... it got a bad rep from all the shit code written in the 70s
the same is true of Perl in the 90s
the least favourite feature for new people sigil variance has been removed in Perl 6
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Juerd Ulti: That's only the least favourite feature they know is going on 10:57
Ulti hah true
Juerd Ulti: I think context is the feature that bites newbies most.
Ulti though they are getting rid of one of my other complaints for teaching Perl 5 to newbs that hashes in scalar context dont just return the number of keys 10:58
Juerd Ulti: It's not uncommon for Perl 5 programmers to first learn the concept of context after a frustrating first year, sometimes few years, of using the language.
Ulti or at least I remember seeing mention they might on a mailing list a while ago
Juerd I personally love the sigil variance and context, but I can understand why they're hard :)
Ulti I think it works but is stretched in places and jumping between references vs not and context is where it becomes frustrating 10:59
Juerd Ulti: The only thing that bites me there is that you can't return a hash in Perl 5, only a hash reference or a k/v list. One requires ugly deref syntax, the other is inefficient because you're building another hash then. 11:00
Ulti: So in code that defines a my %foo, and also gets a hash from a sub, one hash will be %foo and the other might be %$foo, and then it gets ugly.
Ulti take a slice of a hashref ;P I always screw that up and I've been programming Perl 5 for 13 years daily 11:01
Juerd This confused me, even though I've used Perl 5 since 1999 or so: juerd.nl/i/2c0430ca4d291947976ea5a60eda8aea.png
(Written last week)
(And yes, that project uses Dutch identifiers) 11:02
And this asymmetry: juerd.nl/i/f35e26b7933b9c69cb7e5d430efc1bed.png :( 11:03
Although in this case it aligns, so that compensates a little :D
Ulti I get what that code is doing but its a bit nutty 11:04
Id probably just keep lists of keys to a full datastructure
Juerd timtowtdi :) 11:05
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Juerd I need all of those structures later on 11:05
Ulti yeah if you need a copy to work on fair enough
Juerd Well, most of this is being set up for passing to a template for reporting. 11:06
Ulti but yeah thats the other thing you tend to do all those sorts of weird things with hashes because you are sort of treating them like sets and want intersections and unions
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Ulti which is why I really love Perl 6 11:06
set operations are incredibly useful and common in bioinformatics
Juerd I haven't used those features yet in Rakudo and I feel very comfortable abusing hashes for it, but once I can use Rakudo for production work, I'll probably encounter the use cases where sets are great to have. 11:07
Ulti give me all the things from this file which intersect on some key in this other file i.e. it should all be in a database but you cant for *reasons*
Juerd Heh, this code does a diff between a mysql database and an xml file :( 11:08
Ulti sounds like Perl :D
Juerd Yes, I would be very annoyed if I had to write that in another language :)
Ulti thats the other reason Perl is feared it tends to be used to do incredibly powerful but questionably wise things :3
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Ulti there are some scary things I've left littered around the place that would keep me up at night if I had to maintain them :D 11:09
Juerd Sounds familiar
Last year I got an email about code I wrote in 1999 when I had just learned Perl 5 11:10
Apparently that had been in production ever since
Ulti because it works 11:11
Juerd No, because it stopped working :P
Apparently "." is no longer in @INC :) 11:12
Ulti you mean the universe stopped working not the perl
Juerd Well, they did do a backwards incompatible change for security reasons
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Juerd I wish they'd do that more often. (<> operator, :utf8) 11:12
Ulti Rakudo at the moment does include . by default I think? 11:13
Juerd I don't know
Have to go; afk 11:14
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timotimo it shouldn't 11:17
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nine Juerd: no, take a slice of a hashref you got from a method call. Now that looks funny 11:32
Ulti: no, wen don't look in . for modules 11:33
m: say $*REPO.repo-chain.map: *.Str 11:34
camelia (/home/camelia/.perl6 /home/camelia/rakudo-m-inst-1/share/perl6/site /home/camelia/rakudo-m-inst-1/share/perl6/vendor /home/camelia/rakudo-m-inst-1/share/perl6 CompUnit::Repository::AbsolutePath<59158496> CompUnit::Repository::NQP<60476360> CompUnit::Rep…
mst I had memories of rakudo looking in . for moarvm bits or something
but not the repo chain
mst remembers managing to build a 'perl6' that worked from the build dir but not if you chdir-ed elsewhere
nine mst: I fixed that. Should look there only during the build but not after installation
mst nine: excellent, I was hoping somebody've done that 11:35
now you've done all this work I need to get around to getting back to my dists
but other things keep intervening
El_Che dbix? :) 11:42
I saw some twitter drama :) 11:43
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Ulti nine++ thanks 11:57
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evanm Good morning, can someone explain why nested-list lvalues don't destructure? 12:25
m: my $v1=1; my $v2=2; my $v3=3; (($v1, $v2), $v3) = ((4, 5), 6); say $v1; say $v2; say $v3;
camelia (4 5)
6
(Any)
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evanm I'd expect the code semantics to be equivalent to $v1 = 4, $v2 = 5, $v2 = 6 12:26
*$v3 = 6
jnthn Because that's just doing a list assignment, not destructuring 12:30
timotimo m: my ($a, $b, $c); :(($a, $b), $c) := ((1, 2), 3); dd $a, $b, $c;
camelia Int $a = 1
Int $b = 2
Int $c = 3
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evanm Hmm ok, thanks. It's confusing to me that the lvalue just steamrolls the list structure in the assignment, I guess I'd expect an error there 12:35
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lucasb m: sub f($x) { :($x) := (10,); say $x }; f(20) # is this ok? 12:42
camelia 20
jnthn lucasb: Well, it's right that $x - which is readonly - can't be rebound. It'd be better if that were an error 12:43
timotimo yeah, ought to err out
lucasb thanks, yes, expecting error there too :) 12:44
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andrzejku hey people 13:42
I remind that someone wrote me that C++ binding to Perl6 is impossible
so I want to say no it is not
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raschipi andrzejku: How was the problem with discovering which symbol name the compiler gave to the functions solved? 14:12
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nine raschipi: do you mean this? github.com/rakudo/rakudo/blob/nom/...er/GNU.pm6 14:13
raschipi Yes, that. It needs to include compiler specific code, then? 14:14
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pmichaud Good morning, #perl6 14:19
yoleaux 24 Oct 2016 21:43Z <viki> pmichaud: any updates on HTTPS for rakudo.org ( RT#128423 )? Do you need any help?
synopsebot6 Link: rt.perl.org/rt3/Public/Bug/Display...?id=128423
yoleaux 29 Nov 2016 17:12Z <viki> pmichaud: would be sweet if you could drop the .ai of Rakudo logo into github.com/perl6/marketing/tree/master/LOGOs if you get a chance
30 Nov 2016 17:13Z <babydrop> pmichaud: any way we could touch base on rakudo.org maintenance? Could a person be given a sudo or something along those lines? We need HTTPs, upgraded Wordpress, and upgraded `php` + upgraded something else too, I'm sure
pmichaud Just dropping a note here that I find docs.perl6.org/language/traps#Quot...erpolation very confusing -- especially the examples. 14:20
raschipi Do you want help understanding it or just letting us know we need to make it clearer in the future? 14:22
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moritz raschipi: probably the latter :-) 14:22
nine very much so :) 14:23
moritz pmichaud used to be the main Rakudo developer for quite a few years
raschipi That's what I thought, but wanted to make sure.
pmichaud The first example says: "$foo<html></html>" # Perl 6 understands that as:
$foo<html> ~ '</html>' 14:24
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moritz it's $foo{"html"}{"/html"}, no? 14:24
pmichaud .... say what?!? No, it understands it as being $foo<html></html>, which is also $foo{'html'}{'/html'}
right.
similarly the next example is also wrong
raschipi It only makes sense to someone who already knows the trap.
pmichaud > my $foo = { .say } 14:25
> say "$foo(" ~ @args ~ ")" ~ @args ~
True
sorry
lost alinebreak there
> say "$foo(" ~ @args ~ ")"
~ @args ~
Okay, I can see how this example is a trap... but the example text gets the answer wrong 14:26
Perl 6 understands that as being "$foo(' ~ @args ~ ')" 14:27
I suspect I can do a pull request there. 14:28
andrzejku moritz, whats happend with your book?
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araraloren so I intend use {} in string for interpolation 14:40
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Geth doc: pmichaud++ created pull request #1418:
Correct Perl 6 interpretation of trap examples.		 14:42
araraloren andrzejku, I have add some impl of toolchain, have not much time work on it :)
moritz andrzejku: good question, should ask my project manager 14:45
pmichaud I'm afk again -- see ya'll around.
moritz I've completed the final proof; it's now in the publisher's hands
pmichaud (Wishing I could get to Amsterdam this year for #yapceu)
ChristopherBotto How do I report installation issues with Rakudo Star 2017.07-RC0? It seems to install fine except that zef gives me the error "===SORRY!=== Function 'BEFORE' needs parens to avoid gobbling block at /path/to/rakudo-star-2017.07-RC0/home#sources/A9948E7371E0EB9AFDF1EEEB07B52A1B75537C31 (Zef::CLI):565" 14:47
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ChristopherBotto This was also an issue with rakudo-star-2017.04 for me. This is on CentOS Linux release 7.3.1611 (Core). 14:52
araraloren Work fine on fedora 25, every release 14:54
Juerd nine: Yep, both ways look funny. 14:55
nine: But ->$#* is worse :) 14:56
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melezhik HI! 14:57
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melezhik Hi jnthn: ! for some reasons "whenever IO::Notification.watch-path($root)" stopped triggered when I add new directories ... - github.com/melezhik/sparky/blob/ma...parkyd#L38 14:59
any hints?
btw I'm running sparky inside docker container, maybe this has impact to ... 15:00
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melezhik once I restart sparkd it sees new directories and starts handling then ... 15:00
then -> them
jnthn melezhik: Dunno if it's exactly the issue you face but sleeping inside of a whenever will block processing of any other messages in the react block until after the sleep 15:06
Write it as whenever Promise.in($timeout) { run-project ... }
melezhik jnthn: will try, thanks. the fact that concerns me, that that worked before, but probably I just missed some code changes ... 15:11
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ChristopherBotto Thanks araraloren. I guess I will create an issue at the github repository for zef. 15:22
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araraloren .. 15:22
melezhik jnthn: looks like I was wrong in my assumptions. indeed triggering does happen, just not that fast as I expected, I see new directories get handled by sparkyd ... 15:27
anyway, thanks. I need to investigate more if it's really the issue ... 15:28
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ugexe thats not a zef issue, that seems like a precomp issue 15:37
jnthn melezhik: I could easily imagine the sleep causing a delay
melezhik I have applied your suggestion to my code 15:38
but I need to check more ...
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Geth doc: cc2632ace8 | (Patrick R. Michaud)++ (committed by timo) | doc/Language/traps.pod6
Correct Perl 6 interpretation of trap examples. (#1418)
 15:57
raschipi Now it makes even less sense to someone who isn't aware of the trap already. 15:58
nadim m: my @l = 1, (), (), () ; my ($a, $b, $c, $d) = @l ; dd ($a, $b, $c, $d) ; 16:00
camelia (1, $( ), $( ), $( ))
nadim m: my @l = 1, (a,2), (), () ; my ($a, $b, $c, $d) = @l ; dd ($a, $b, $c, $d) ;
camelia 5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>
Undeclared routine:
a used at line 1
nadim m: my @l = 1, (1,2), (), () ; my ($a, $b, $c, $d) = @l ; dd ($a, $b, $c, $d) ;
camelia (1, $(1, 2), $( ), $( ))
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nadim and how do I get a list list? 16:02
so $l is a list, it contains a list (1,2) but when I put that in $a, I get wat, a list in scalar content?
timotimo there is no $l in there, only @l, can you clarify? 16:03
nadim m: my $l = (1, (1,2), (), ()) ; my ($a, $b, $c, $d) = @l ; dd ($a, $b, $c, $d) ;
camelia 5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>
Variable '@l' is not declared. Did you mean '$l'?
at <tmp>:1
------> 3 (1,2), (), ()) ; my ($a, $b, $c, $d) = 7⏏5@l ; dd ($a, $b, $c, $d) ;
nadim m: my $l = (1, (1,2), (), ()) ; my ($a, $b, $c, $d) = $l ; dd ($a, $b, $c, $d) ;
camelia (1, $(1, 2), $( ), $( ))
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nadim timotimo: indeed, I wrote a @l example 16:04
tony-o you get a sequence, iirc
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nadim m: my $l = (1, (1,2), (), ()).List ; my ($a, $b, $c, $d) = $l ; dd ($a, $b, $c, $d) ; 16:04
camelia (1, $(1, 2), $( ), $( ))
tony-o m: my $l = (1, (1,2), (), ()) ; my ($a, $b, $c, $d) = $l ; $b.WHAT.say
camelia (List)
tony-o nvm
nadim do $(...) flatten differently from ( ...) ? 16:05
actually, I think I misunderstand $() and the difference with (), explanaitions welcome 16:06
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suman Hi everyone 16:11
Greetings!!
raschipi hello
suman I want help on this. Any help? stackoverflow.com/questions/451721...ith-perl-6
Related with Perl 6. I want to see the perl 6 grammar used to solve this problem. Would be exciting. 16:12
mst post your code so far and explain where you're stuck?
ugexe m: my @a; @a.append($(1,2)); say @a.perl; my @b; @b.append((1,2)); say @b.perl 16:13
camelia [(1, 2),]
[1, 2]
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raschipi suman: I think the appropriate way to do it in Perl6 would be to write bindings to bib2x. 16:16
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nadim suman: there is close to zero chance you will get your work done without you having spend a substantial amount of time trying. 16:17
docs.perl6.org/language/grammar_tutorial 16:18
suman nadim I saw grammar documentation. Couldn't make out however! :( 16:20
raschipi bib2x I am seeing. 16:22
nadim perl6advent.wordpress.com/2009/12/...d-actions/
moritz suman: I'm working on a book that teaches grammars: leanpub.com/perl6regex enjoy!
nadim moritz++ 16:23
moritz (to be fair, so far it "only" discusses regexes; working on the chapter right now that introduces grammars) 16:24
tyil[m] heh
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moritz and when you buy it, you get the updates for free 16:25
tyil[m] moritz: interesting
moritz it's lean/agile book writing and selling, basically 16:26
perlpilot suman: I'd look around for a BibTeX grammar in BNF or maybe google for "BibTeX parser" and convert it to Perl 6 if I were you. It would be a good learning experience in any case. 16:27
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perlpilot (that's kinda how I taught myself C ages and ages ago -- I knew Pascal, so I tried translating programs from Pascal to C) 16:28
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araraloren night 16:29
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perlpilot suman: I found github.com/aclements/biblib#recognized-grammar with a few seconds of google + clicking on links 16:30
nadim suman: tex.stackexchange.com/questions/16...6492#16492 16:31
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robertle dude, the original bibtex source sure is "fun" 16:34
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tony-o pascal seemed like a cool language 16:43
robertle hmmm, this is also quite a lot of pascal...
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robertle eh? the texlive source tree contains a C implementation as well! 16:46
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robertle and *of course* someone had to do #define BEGIN { 16:49
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suman This my code grammar REST { token TOP { '@.*{?' <key> ',\n title={' <title> '}'} token key { \w+ } token title { \w+ } } my $match = REST.parse('derm.bib'); say $match; 16:52
Not working
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beginner Is it possible to create object with role as type instead of class 17:08
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Voldenet suman: "derm.bib" is just passed as a string, so it doesn't work 17:12
obviously
beginner is there any syntax difference...bcoz am getting error 17:14
suman Voldenet: This is code. Even after removing quotes not working grammar REST { token TOP { '@.*{?' <key> 'title={' <title> '}'} token key { \w+ } token title { \w+ } } my $match = REST.parse(derm.bib); say $match;
This is the error message : ===SORRY!=== Error while compiling C:\Users\Suman\Desktop\bib.p6 Undeclared routine: derm used at line 8 17:15
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Voldenet .parse expects a Str 17:17
REST.parse("derm.bib".IO.slurp)
AlexDaniel suman: wait, you want to parse "derm.bib" file? If so, then REST.parse(slurp('derm.bib'))
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suman AlexDaniel even after slurping the derm.bib , its not working 17:20
Do you find anything wrong in my grammar?
AlexDaniel suman: what error are you seeing?
suman: well, if you can gist your input file then I might take a look 17:21
Voldenet > github.com/sumandoc/My-LaTeX-Stuff...r/derm.bib
suman AlexDaniel Its here github.com/sumandoc/My-LaTeX-Stuff...r/derm.bib
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AlexDaniel suman: thinking about it, are you sure you want a grammar? 17:29
because then you'd probably want to parse everything *properly*
beginner Is it possible to create object with role as type instead of class...if yes,how? 17:30
suman AlexDaniel: Not necessarily. But you can tell me about basic implementation in Perl 6 too. 17:31
AlexDaniel suman: eh, I don't know… if you want a quick hack job then you can try something like this: my $data = slurp 'derm.bib'; %($data.match(:g, /'@article{'(\w+)/)»[0]».Str Z=> $data.match(:g, /'title={'(<-[}]>+)/)»[0]».Str) 17:33
jdv79 shouldn't it be possible to use a subset type in a has declaration? 17:34
oh, nevermind. typo.
lucasb beginner: my SomeRole $x = SomeRole.new 17:35
raschipi beginner: docs.perl6.org/type/auto-punning 17:36
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AlexDaniel suman: something less hacky but still horrible: slurp('derm.bib').match(:g, /'@article{'(\w+)','\s+'title={'(<-[}]>+)/).map({~.[0] => ~.[1]}) 17:38
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AlexDaniel looking at this, I think finding something that can parses bibs correctly would be the best solution 17:39
beginner lucasb, rashcipi : Thanks 17:41
raschipi : Thanks 17:42
ingy does this not work in perl6: gist.github.com/anonymous/c1ee7fc4...9c6db0bf9b ? 17:44
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AlexDaniel ingy: use v5.10 ? 17:47
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geekosaur not sure anyone's tried circular imports 17:47
ingy AlexDaniel: enables 'say' 17:48
AlexDaniel geekosaur: well, there's an error message for this: “Circular module loading detected trying to precompile”
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AlexDaniel ingy: but you were talking about perl6? 17:48
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ingy does this perl5 not translate to perl6: gist.github.com/anonymous/c1ee7fc4...9c6db0bf9b ? 17:49
AlexDaniel ingy: Well, you can use perl5 stuff with Inline::Perl5 github.com/niner/Inline-Perl5
ingy: but if you want to go with perl6, then it will look a bit different
ingy AlexDaniel: I'm asking if circular imports work in p6 17:50
AlexDaniel oooh…
well, it gives this error if you translate it to perl6: “Circular module loading detected”
so it seems like it is not working 17:51
ingy fo me it just hangs
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AlexDaniel what rakudo version you have? 17:51
also, what do you mean by “it just hangs”? What code exactly hangs?
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ingy AlexDaniel: drop the hand holding. so almost all dynamic langs I know support circular loads. is there a good reason why p6 can't/doesn't? 17:54
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ingy can type info not be resolved in precomp? 17:54
raschipi ingy: Do they also support lexical loading and want to support loading multiple versions in different contexts in the future? 17:56
AlexDaniel ingy: I think that's a good question, and it would be nice to have a good written answer in any case (good reason or not)
ingy: I can't find any ticket unfortunately
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ingy raschipi: I'm not comparing, I'm just trying to figure out if this is an oversight or on purpose, and if so why 17:56
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raschipi ingy: Me too. I'm actually interested in the answer, I didn't mean to compare. 17:57
AlexDaniel ingy: in these cases I'd usually submit a ticket. If it is not supposed to work, someone will reject it with some good reasoning. If it's a “bug”, we will have a ticket for it at least :)
raschipi Or, another way: have those two features been combined before? If so, how?
AlexDaniel just found this: RT #126688 17:59
synopsebot6 Link: rt.perl.org/rt3/Public/Bug/Display...?id=126688
ingy AlexDaniel: I appreciate your helping out, but I've been with p6 from day1 :)
AlexDaniel this is what was linked in this commit (which added this protection): github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/21...5e26c88bc6
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AlexDaniel ingy: good, then I guess no need to explain how to submit a ticket? ;) 18:01
ingy which was July 18th 2000 iirc 18:03
AlexDaniel: I'll turn it off and back on again. :)
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jdv79 can i have a public attr and a custom accessor? 18:05
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perlpilot jdv79: yes 18:06
geekosaur afaik the thing that makes it public is the accessor, which is generated for you with $., so you define it "private" ($!) and then provide your own accessors? 18:07
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jdv79 but then you lose out on the constructor checking 18:08
AlexDaniel ingy: maybe this is relevant? irclog.perlgeek.de/perl6/2016-05-29#i_12567128
timotimo you can declare it public and just implement a method with the same name as the attribute
perlpilot jdv79: exactly as timotimo said 18:09
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jdv79 i tried that and it seemd to not work 18:10
i'll paste it
AlexDaniel ingy: just created this doc issue: github.com/perl6/doc/issues/1419 18:15
perlpilot m: class C { has $.x = 42; method x { 97 }}; C.new.x.say; # simple example
camelia 97
jdv79 oh, i need Proxy. right. thanks. 18:16
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ugexe m: class Foo { has $.x; method x { $!x * 2 } }; say Foo.new(x => 100).x 18:18
camelia 200
jdv79 yeah but i want to set as well 18:19
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ingy AlexDaniel: thx 18:22
ugexe m: class Foo { has $.x; method x is rw { say 42; $!x } }; my $foo = Foo.new(x => 100); say $foo.x; $foo.x = 400; say $foo.x 18:23
camelia 42
100
42
42
400
ugexe i guess you do need a proxy if you want to act according to read or write 18:24
jdv79 yup 18:25
timotimo yup, that's the only way i know of
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jdv79 and there's a bug 18:30
but it seems easily skirted
rt.perl.org/Public/Bug/Display.html?id=126198
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timotimo yeah, don't put methods in there 18:31
it can't work, since they are getting invoked on the proxy object
and if you have something like $!x in there, it will resolve to an object that doesn't have that attribute
jdv79 the test still just has that fudged out 18:32
weird
timotimo perhaps Proxy's constructor should complain loudly if you pass objects derived from method in there 18:33
jdv79 it doesn't help that the docs show using methods 18:34
but that's in a different context so not sure if that should work or not
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jdv79 and why does FETCH get a postional arg sometimes 18:37
ugh
Geth_ whateverable: 62eee9ef6f | (Aleks-Daniel Jakimenko-Aleksejev)++ | 5 files
No need to $proc.out.close anymore

Resolves issue #175. Reverts at least these commits:
  * 96ccddccd804b33e0b9c5ed6580c1c23a91a5737
  * 39cde1e3e90bd019a38f51c62221927900b5e01b
  * c63ed89d4ea0fb1e7d6d62683d237432e215d29a
See this Perl 6 doc issue for more info:
  github.com/perl6/doc/issues/1304		 18:38
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timotimo that's the object you're fetching from, i guess? 18:39
hm, no, it's probably the proxy itselfs
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jdv79 doing $o.a = 1 is fine but say $o.a = 1 seems to give a param to FETCH 18:41
idk
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jdv79 or $o.a i what i meant 18:42
timotimo i don't see the difference there?
AlexDaniel .tell samcv Any chance you have a quick answer for github.com/perl6/whateverable/issues/167 ? Unicodable adds ◌ for combiners, but how can I easily know if ◌ should be prepended? Like, is there some property or something? Or is there any other check I can perform? Like “(“◌” ~ $x).chars == 1” or something? 18:44
yoleaux AlexDaniel: I'll pass your message to samcv.
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tyil can anyone help me with a probably easy grammar problem? I have termbin.com/eimi 18:51
but $m is an (Any), without the match I wanted ("hello", supposed to be in <content>)
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tyil Grammar::Tracer shows it should match carrectly 18:52
geekosaur as written, that grammar will stop at the second **, notice that ti is not at end of input, and fail. 18:56
perhaps you want subparse instead of parse
tyil heh, that seems to give me the result I was expecting 18:57
thanks geekosaur
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kybr are named captures allowed: MAIN(.... where /$<right-here>=..../ ....) ? 19:34
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kybr m: sub FOO($ip where /$<first>=\d+ \. \d+ \. \d+ \. \d+/) { say $first } 19:38
camelia 5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>
Variable '$first' is not declared. Did you mean '&first'?
at <tmp>:1
------> 3first>=\d+ \. \d+ \. \d+ \. \d+/) { say 7⏏5$first }
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kybr m: my $s = '192.168.0.1' and $s ~~ /$<first>=\d+ \. \d+ \. \d+ \. \d+/ 19:39
camelia ( no output )
kybr m: my $s = '192.168.0.1' and $s ~~ /$<first>=\d+ \. \d+ \. \d+ \. \d+/ and say($first)
camelia 5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>
Variable '$first' is not declared. Did you mean '&first'?
at <tmp>:1
------> 3irst>=\d+ \. \d+ \. \d+ \. \d+/ and say(7⏏5$first)
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kybr m: my $s = '192.168.0.1' and $s ~~ /$<first>=\d+ \. \d+ \. \d+ \. \d+/ and say($<first>) 19:40
camelia ｢192｣
jdv79 is it possible to slip a list into a sig instead of having to construct a hash out of it first? 19:41
kybr was misunderstanding named captures: say $<capture> # not $capture 19:42
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nadim m: my $l = (1,2) ; my @a = 1, $l, $l ; dd @a ; 19:51
camelia Array @a = [1, (1, 2), (1, 2)]
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nadim m: my $l = (1,2) ; my @a = 1, $l xx 2 ; dd @a ; 19:51
camelia Array @a = [1, ((1, 2), (1, 2)).Seq]
nadim m: my $l = (1,2) ; my @a = 1, | $l xx 2 ; dd @a ; 19:52
camelia Array @a = [1, (1, 2, 1, 2).Seq]
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nadim m: my $l = (1,2) ; my @a = 1, $l x 2 ; dd @a ; 19:52
camelia Array @a = [1, "1 21 2"]
nadim m: my $l = (1,2) ; my @a = 1, |( $l xx 2) ; dd @a ;
camelia Array @a = [1, (1, 2), (1, 2)]
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ChristopherBotto ugeze: Thanks for responding about my "zef" issue really being a precompilation issue earlier (irclog.perlgeek.de/perl6/2017-07-1...14888036). What is the best place to find information about how precompilation works so that I can better debug this situation? 20:45
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ChristopherBotto ugexe: Thanks for responding about my "zef" issue really being a precompilation issue earlier (irclog.perlgeek.de/perl6/2017-07-1...14888036). After searching a while, I found out that precompilation is stored under `~/.perl6` and after deleting it, the new Rakudo Star installed fine. Thanks! 21:25
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ab6tract m: dd [(^)] ( g => 5 ).Bag, (g => -5 ).Bag; # :( 21:45
camelia ("g"=>5).Bag
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ab6tract .tell lizmat i'm afraid i do not understand why that is a better answer than the actual distance between the values in these two bags. 21:47
yoleaux ab6tract: I'll pass your message to lizmat.
ab6tract m: dd [(^)] ( g => 5 ).Bag, (g => -6 ).Bag; # nothing changes? why? 21:48
camelia ("g"=>5).Bag
ab6tract anyway, good night #perl6 21:49
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lizmat . 22:00
yoleaux 21:47Z <ab6tract> lizmat: i'm afraid i do not understand why that is a better answer than the actual distance between the values in these two bags.
lizmat .tell ab6tract (g => -5).Bag === bag(), that's why, you probably want Mixes ?
yoleaux lizmat: I'll pass your message to ab6tract.
lizmat m: dd [(^)] ( g => 5 ).Mix, (g => -5 ).Mix 22:01
camelia ("g"=>10).Mix
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