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Set by moritz on 22 December 2015.
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shinobi-cl r: my @a is default(Nil); @a.append(1,2,3,Any,Nil,6); say @a.perl; my @b = @a; say @b.perl; 01:21
camelia [1, 2, 3, Any, Nil, 6]
[1, 2, 3, Any, Any, 6]
shinobi-cl Hmmm, interesting, the modifier sticks only to @a. That's to be expected anyway. 01:22
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faraco hmm... 04:01
I'm not sure if this is only me, but I saw that in perl6.org (recent blog posts) section there is some repetitive typos (iniside) unless that was intended as a pun.. 04:02
faraco *shrugs*
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adu what? 04:03
faraco I'm seeing this - i.imgur.com/0SO7RfC.png 04:05
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adu faraco: are you refering to "in Perl 6"? 04:09
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faraco No, I meant the 'Perl 6 iniside out'. Nevermind...I thought it is a part of perl6.org system. 04:11
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leont I see Proc::Async has gained a merged output supply. 07:48
El_Che hi leont 07:49
leont Is that a real merged on a file descriptor level? 07:50
Of is that merged on a Supply level
El_Che I saw you forgot your fire protection on p5p :)
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leont I did -_- 07:52
El_Che sunblock factor 50k 07:53
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timotimo leont: it's merged at moar level, but it looks like it still creates two pipes rather than passing the same pipe for both 2nd and 3rd fileno 07:57
github.com/MoarVM/MoarVM/blob/mast...ops.c#L661 07:58
leont timotimo++ 07:59
timotimo it's on the spawner to decide whether stdout/stderr are buffered or not, right? 08:01
leont That is unfortunate. Makes is unusable for my purposes.
If they're different file descriptors, then the order of the moar-merged stream isn't necessarily the same as the order that data is written in. 08:02
Buffering can happen on both sides 08:03
timotimo can you give me a short one-liner that i can proc::async.new that'll tell me if stdout and stderr are the same underlying fd? 08:08
leont Not sure I can. On the child process they look like different FDs. 08:10
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leont And p6 tries hard to hide platformy things like file descriptors 08:13
timotimo not terribly hard 08:14
github.com/rakudo/rakudo/blob/mast...ync.pm#L72 08:15
leont I see
timotimo i briefly tried to handle merge by just passing the same pipe to stdout and stderr, but that didn't seem to work, causes some HLL exceptions 08:16
don't have time right now to try doing it right 08:17
also, i'd like for it to be possible to give more FDs to a spawned process than just stdin/stdout/stderr
leont Yeah that can be useful 08:27
moritz yes, very useful for IPC 08:30
timotimo can you pass sockets over FDs only on unices or also on windows? 08:32
leont You mean passing FDs over sockets?
That's a unix thing AFAIK
Windows doesn't really have FDs, but handles, which are pointers except when they're not. They're weird. 08:33
moritz TBH, FDs are also pretty weird :-)
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leont The file descriptions behind them are weird, but most of the time you don't need to think about those. 08:38
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faraco camelia: 'hello'.say 09:12
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faraco p6: 'hello'.say 09:13
camelia hello
moritz faraco: re misspellings, those blog posts are by andrew shitov
though the typo seems to be somewhere else 09:14
yes, my fault: github.com/stmuk/pl6anet.org/commi...7fe8451a5e 09:15
faraco moritz: Ah, I see.
moritz github.com/stmuk/pl6anet.org/pull/9 09:16
stmuk_: ^^ sorry for the noise
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stmuk_ moritz: no worries! merged & deployed :) 10:18
moritz stmuk_: thanks 10:19
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buggable New CPAN upload: App-Platform-0.2.1.tar.gz by KAJI cpan.metacpan.org/authors/id/K/KA/...2.1.tar.gz 11:12
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masak today's autopun spotting: twitter.com/vgr/status/952442493001285632 15:16
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buggable New CPAN upload: P5tie-0.0.1.tar.gz by ELIZABETH cpan.metacpan.org/authors/id/E/EL/...0.1.tar.gz 16:22
lizmat aka Perl 5 tie() for scalars, arrays and hashes 16:23
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Geth doc: 9dff74fe1b | (Luca Ferrari)++ | doc/Type/Version.pod6
Add crosslink to 'v (version)' to point to type Version.

Close #1732.		 16:54
synopsebot Link: doc.perl6.org/type/Version
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El_Che lizmat: is P5 in the name a good idea? 17:08
lizmat what would you suggest ?
El_Che lizmat: it feels like it put limits to the implementation and the expiration date 17:09
lizmat well, that's the intent
El_Che why?
(if it's the intent, the name is right)
lizmat I would not recommend using tie() in new Perl 6 code: there are better ways of doing that 17:10
this is intended to make it easier to port stuff over from Perl 5
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El_Che ok, than it sounds ok 17:11
the censor approves :)
lizmat thanks the censor
El_Che connection on the train seems spotty today 17:12
lizmat doesn't notice it
TimToady note that a tie might cause lack of optimization in some cases
much like if we notice an EVAL 17:13
El_Che so, you plan to implement P5threds.pm6 and p5CGI.pm6?
lizmat P5threads no
p5CGI not sure yet
TimToady and if we can't detect that a tie is going to make optimizaiton impossible, we'll probably go ahead and do the optimization and break the tie, so to speak 17:14
El_Che I get the pratical use case, but I wonder if people are poritng their perl5 code to perl6 and if they are, I wonder if it would be straightforward because perl6 offers a lot of improvements 17:15
TimToady at least, that was the thinking a decade ago when we were deciding not to put tie into the language... :)
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lizmat P5tie is *not* about having code that executes in an optimal way, it is about lowering the threshold of porting Perl 5 code to Perl 6 17:16
TimToady nod 17:17
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lizmat dinner& 17:18
El_Che would suggest P5tieFighter to lizmat 17:22
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scimon Feeling happy about the progress I've made with Test::HTTP::Server this afternoon. Hopefully get some more work done on it this evening. 17:26
El_Che scimon: what does it do? 17:27
scimon It's intended to make testing things that make HTTP requests simple.
El_Che sounds useful 17:28
scimon By wrapping HTTP::Server::Async and adding some logging.
That you can check in tests.
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scimon I was looking at picking up WWW::Mechanize and realised I wanted something to do that. 17:28
pmurias lizmat: wouldn't a :: separated name be better? (like maybe Perl5::Tie?) 17:29
scimon Once I've got a bit more done I'll let people kick it and see how it goes.
off now.
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El_Che pmurias: I was thinking the same 17:30
or rather P5Porting:Tie
otherwise it may be confused with real Perl 5 modules, eg. used with Inline::Perl5
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lizmat scimon: have you looked at Cro::HTTP::Client ? 18:08
El_Che: well, first of all, P5tie is about the tie() builtin, so it's not a module in Perl 5 18:09
pmurias: we haven't done the Perl5:: prefix for other modules either 18:10
in time, I guess these modules will be moved to an organisation, which you could then refer to in your -use- statement 18:11
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buggable New CPAN upload: P5tie-0.0.2.tar.gz by ELIZABETH cpan.metacpan.org/authors/id/E/EL/...0.2.tar.gz 19:22
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newnick1 Hi. 19:43
How could one read command line arguments in Perl 6? 19:44
I want to treat them just as an array of tokens instead of named parameters.
timotimo try @*ARGS 19:45
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newnick1 Could you please show me how to extract argument by index and get number of elements? I wrote sub MAIN() { say @*ARGS.elems; say @*ARGS[0]; } 19:49
but it doesn't work.
timotimo right, it won't run MAIN() if you have more than 0 arguments, because the signature wouldn't match 19:53
you can give the sub main a signature that will accept anything, like sub MAIN(*@, *%) or you could just not use MAIN at all
newnick1 And how to write signature of MAIN that would accept 0 or more args?
timotimo i've gotta take my RSI rest break, TTYL
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timotimo m: sub MAIN(*@, *%) { say "yo" }; MAIN(); MAIN(1, 2, 3); MAIN(9, 9, :foo) 19:54
camelia yo
yo
yo
yo
as_ rakudo: say UInt64.Range; 19:55
camelia -Inf^..^Inf
newnick1 Is it possible to iterate args in loop?
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timotimo of course, @*ARGS is just an array of string-likes 20:05
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scimon lizmat: I'm loathe to use the Cro stuff until it can install with tests. I'm 100% looking forward to it being stable :) but until then I'd like to not have to rely it. 20:14
timotimo m: say @*ARGS.perl 20:15
camelia []
timotimo hm, we don't have a way to tell camelia to give the script some arguments
so can't really demonstrate 20:16
lizmat timotimo: BEGIN @ARGS= () ??
newnick1 @timotimo, so it's not possible with Perl 6?
timotimo it definitely is possible 20:17
newnick1 Just wanted to iterate over arguments in loop.
Very simple use case.
timotimo just do "for @*ARGS -> $argument { say "$argument is an argument" }
newnick1 Is it possible to put it inside MAIN with appropriate signature? 20:18
sub main(<something>) { ...
MAIN
timotimo that's possible, too, but .. hold on, phone
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jnthn scimon: Cro::HTTP, which is the bit you'd need to depend on, has done that fine for a good while 20:22
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jnthn The only remaining sometimes-fail I'm aware of is in the development tools 20:23
scimon I can always switch between them :) No offence intended jnthn, like I say it's an amazing bit of kit and I'm really looking forward to the .8 release. 20:24
jnthn None taken. :-) Just pointing out the piece you'd need is one of the stabler bits. :-) 20:25
scimon Cool :) 20:26
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lichtkind is pierre viegier here? 20:28
newnick1 @timotimo, I'm sorry, could you please elaborate on example?
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scimon github.com/Scimon/p6-Test-HTTP-Server So here's the thing I'm working on. Idea if you point it at a folder and it's server up files in it. Also plan is to have a config.yml file that lets you define paths with special responses (like 500 errors etc). Idea is to make it very simple to setup tests. 20:48
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scimon But now I'm signing off to read some Malory. Night all. 20:50
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lizmat and another Perl 6 Weekly hits the Net: p6weekly.wordpress.com/2018/01/15/...blue-note/ 20:56
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leont :-) 21:16
moritz lizmat++ 21:18
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pmurias lizmat++ # the weekly makes keeping track of rakudo community a lot easier 21:42
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El_Che news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15961031 <-- interesting comment in your weekly. Pretty relevant voor perl6 22:04
lizmat: kudos for the new section of the news letter 22:05
lizmat thanks :-)
gladly accepting links to wherever this is also occurring :-) 22:06
for inclusion in the P6W
El_Che I will certainly keep that in mind
lizmat thanks in advance!
El_Che are you strictly interested in perl 6 mentions or can it be widers? 22:07
lizmat it at least has to mention Perl 6
El_Che I saw a blog this week about how seclang was struggling due to intel vulnerabilities
ok
it makes sense
lizmat news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16153455 # will be in next weeks 22:08
it doesn't mention Perl 6 directly, but indirectly
that would also be ok for me
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El_Che I agree so much with this (working on devops envs): "People flock to Go not only because of its performance, but because it can be easily deployed, and deployment isn't something even on Ruby's Roadmap." 22:09
timotimo pff, now we have docker everything's trivial to deploy! just ship a whole linux with it!
El_Che no it's not
timotimo i meant /s
El_Che golang on alpine is orders of magnitude easier and faster to build on docker than all other languages 22:10
I need to stick to centos for my perl 5 projects
thx $deity for docker specially for perl 5 on 6 22:11
without it it could be pretty hopeless
but even then deployment is hard
(CPAN is a lot saner than the gem environment, it must be said though) 22:12
upgrading the gems of a ruby project is hard
(you still need to manage that even with Docker)
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timotimo right, but as JS has taught us, you just keep local versions of everything with your code 22:15
El_Che yes, you do that in golang as well. But for security reason you need to update your stack
timotimo right 22:16
El_Che and in my experience things seem to blow up more often with gems than with cpan
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mspo gem bad 22:24
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timotimo i'll go into your basement and steal all your rubies and gems 22:25
El_Che you'll find only Rust
Although Julia may be there 22:26
Be careful for the Python
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timotimo if anybody wants a slang idea for something really simple, why not implement ruby's ?a syntax for single character strings (?a would be "a", for example) 22:44
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lizmat timotimo: how would that work with: my \a = 42; ?a 22:45
timotimo well, you wouldn't use the ? character 22:49
lizmat hehe, ok, fair enough :-)
timotimo but i'd expect longest token matching to prefer ?a as "a" 22:51
buggable New CPAN upload: P5tie-0.0.3.tar.gz by ELIZABETH cpan.metacpan.org/authors/id/E/EL/...0.3.tar.gz 22:52
lizmat apparently, if you pass a string to a precompiled module that is the name of another precompiled module, then ::() won't find it 22:53
timotimo is that a compile-time/run-time difference? 22:54
lizmat feels to me, yes
or compunit scope maybe
if the class is in the compunit of the caller, then ::() can find it 22:55
timotimo like, how do you pass it? does the passee know the string early enough?
lizmat I found this when implementing Tie::Array, a subclassable class that performs the tie() interface using a normal array
the logic in tie could not find it 22:56
I'll try to golf it down
and make an issue :-) 22:57
meanwhile, disallowing classes to be specified as a string, fixes the issue
if you have a string, then you will need to do the ::() yourself :-)
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Garland_g[m] Is there a way to take an 'is rw' class attribute, and run a bit of code whenever it's modified by assignment? 23:00
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Zoffix Garland_g[m]: yeah, just bind a Proxy object (or use Proxee module that's a more plished Proxy). Middle of "Coercers" section has an example of coercing to Int on assignment: github.com/zoffixznet/perl6-Proxee#synopsis 23:04
Garland_g[m]: in the future, it'll be possible to bind a Proxy to the attribute directly, instead of using `submethod TWEAK` for that purpose. 23:05
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Zoffix huggable: Proxy 23:05
huggable Zoffix, Item container with custom storage and retrieval: docs.perl6.org/type/Proxy
Zoffix ^ that's the core version of Proxy
Garland_g[m] Thanks. 23:06
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