»ö« Welcome to Perl 6! | perl6.org/ | evalbot usage: 'p6: say 3;' or rakudo:, or /msg camelia p6: ... | irclog: irc.perl6.org or colabti.org/irclogger/irclogger_logs/perl6 | UTF-8 is our friend!
Set by moritz on 22 December 2015.
00:01 MasterDuke joined 00:02 zacts joined 00:04 pharv joined, epony joined 00:06 epony left, MilkmanDan left 00:07 epony joined 00:08 mcmillhj joined 00:09 MilkmanDan joined 00:12 pharv left, pharv joined 00:13 mcmillhj left 00:24 AlexDaniel left 00:25 pharv left, mcmillhj joined, pharv joined 00:28 comborico1611 joined 00:30 mcmillhj left, pharv left 00:40 mcmillhj joined, comborico1611 left 00:45 mcmillhj left, st_elmo joined 00:47 st_elmo left 00:53 zachk left 01:11 mcmillhj joined 01:16 mcmillhj left 01:18 eliasr left 01:22 mcmillhj joined 01:26 epony left, pharv joined 01:27 mcmillhj left 01:31 pharv left 01:37 mcmillhj joined 01:41 mcmillhj left 01:42 athenot left 01:45 ilbot3 left 01:53 mcmillhj joined 01:56 ilbot3 joined, ChanServ sets mode: +v ilbot3 01:58 mcmillhj left 02:05 mcmillhj joined 02:09 mcmillhj left 02:19 mcmillhj joined 02:24 mcmillhj left 02:32 mcmillhj joined 02:35 mniip left 02:37 mniip joined, mcmillhj left 02:44 athenot joined 02:51 mcmillhj joined 02:56 mcmillhj left 02:57 athenot left 02:58 ufobat_ joined 03:02 ufobat left 03:10 mcmillhj joined 03:15 mcmillhj left
Herby_ I'm writing a toy minigrep program (based off a Rust tutorial) 03:17
gist.github.com/sylints/499dfc5a9d...19a7e044e8
are there any easy speed-up opportunities that I'm missing?
03:17 Sgeo__ left 03:19 Sgeo joined 03:21 mcmillhj joined
MasterDuke Herby_: is $query meant to be interpreted as just a plain text string? or as possibly a regex? 03:23
Herby_ regex. I'm terrible at naming things
just a plain ole text search
MasterDuke and btw. your printing loop could instead be `for @search-results -> @result { say "@result[]" }`, but that's a personal prefererence thing 03:25
03:26 mcmillhj left
Herby_ thanks, i'll tweak that 03:26
it takes about 9 seconds to go through a 6MB file, looking for 1 word
6MB text file 03:27
slurping, and $file.IO.lines, both take roughly the same time
MasterDuke and your searching loop could be `for $contents.IO.lines.kv -> $line-count, $line {`, and then you don't need to explicitly manage $line-count. however, it will start at 0, so you'd need to push `$line-count + 1` 03:28
03:31 mcmillhj joined
Herby_ hmmm. getting: Cannot convert string to number: base-10 number must begin with valid digits or '.' in ' 03:31
MasterDuke Herby_: .match with a string doesn't treat it as a regex. if you don't need that functionality, .contains will be much faster 03:32
Herby_ MasterDuke: holy moly. that's a huge speedup 03:33
changing it from .match to .contains dropped the time for 9 seconds to 0.4 seconds 03:34
you're a wizard :)
MasterDuke yeah, right now Perl 6 regexes are kind of slow 03:35
03:36 mcmillhj left
Herby_ MasterDuke: thanks for taking a look and the feedback 03:37
MasterDuke welcome 03:38
Herby_ very simple benchmark: using $contents.IO.lines.kv instead of manually handling the line count, doubles the execution time 03:39
03:42 mcmillhj joined
MasterDuke oh, you're also calling .lc twice for every line. you could create a new variable before the loop that gets $query.lc and then use that in the .contains 03:42
(that's unrelated to using .kv)
and for something like this, .fc is recommended 03:43
Herby_ ahhh. i've never heard of .fc
MasterDuke docs.perl6.org/routine/fc it's smarter/better at handling unicode 03:44
and the weird rules for comparing some unicode characters 03:45
03:47 mcmillhj left
Herby_ m: my $a = 'TeST'.fc; my $b = 'Test'; say $b.contains($a); 03:48
camelia False
Herby_ bah, disregard
dumb question: if I'm using .fc, I'm guessing both strings to have .fc called on them before I compare? 03:49
MasterDuke yeah
Herby_ m: my $a = 'TeST'.fc; my $b.fc = 'Test'; say $b.contains($a);
camelia No such method 'fc' for invocant of type 'Any'
in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1
Herby_ m: my $a = 'TeST'.fc; my $b = 'Test'.fc; say $b.contains($a);
camelia True
Herby_ k
well, I started this adventure with my code taking close to 10 seconds to run. With your help, I've gotten it down to 0.2 seconds :) 03:50
MasterDuke cool 03:52
03:53 mcmillhj joined
MasterDuke btw, have you used the built in profiler at all? 03:53
Herby_ the one that outputs to a .sql file? 03:54
from this page? docs.perl6.org/language/performance
I have not
MasterDuke it can do html and json also. html is the default, you probaby only need the sql option if the results are too big to open in a browser 03:55
i recommend playing around with it, it can tell you all kinds of useful things 03:56
Herby_ wow. just ran it. this is pretty dang cool
03:58 mcmillhj left
Herby_ and surprisingly painless. Being honest, I avoided the profiler because a quick glance at the documentation made me think it was overwhelming 03:58
my fault for not looking closer
MasterDuke: thanks again for the help. I've learned quite a few new things tonight 04:02
i'm off to bed
o/
MasterDuke same here. later...
04:04 u-ou left 04:07 u-ou joined 04:11 Sgeo_ joined 04:12 mcmillhj joined 04:13 Sgeo left 04:17 mcmillhj left 04:22 dalek left 04:27 u-ou left 04:30 Util left 04:46 mcmillhj joined 04:49 nephron joined 04:50 nephron left, nephron joined
nephron rakudo 04:50
04:51 mcmillhj left, nephron left 04:58 jmerelo joined 05:04 mcmillhj joined 05:05 khw left 05:09 Herby_ left, mcmillhj left 05:17 sauvin joined
jmerelo p6: sub foo( Int(Uint) $num ) { say "$num is good";} foo; 05:23
camelia 5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>
Unable to parse expression in typename; couldn't find final ')' (corresponding starter was at line 1)
at <tmp>:1
------> 3sub foo( Int(7⏏5Uint) $num ) { say "$num is good";} foo;
jmerelo p6: sub foo( Int(UInt) $num ) { say "$num is good";} foo;
camelia 5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>
Strange text after block (missing semicolon or comma?)
at <tmp>:1
------> 3 Int(UInt) $num ) { say "$num is good";}7⏏5 foo;
expecting any of:
infix
infix stopper
…
05:23 mcmillhj joined
jmerelo p6: sub foo( Int(UInt) $num ) { say "$num is good";} foo(3); 05:24
camelia 5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>
Strange text after block (missing semicolon or comma?)
at <tmp>:1
------> 3 Int(UInt) $num ) { say "$num is good";}7⏏5 foo(3);
expecting any of:
infix
infix stopper…
jmerelo p6: sub foo( Int(UInt) $num ) { say "$num is good";}; foo(3);
camelia 3 is good
jmerelo p6: sub foo( Int(Uint) $num ) { say "$num is good";}; foo(3);
camelia 5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>
Unable to parse expression in typename; couldn't find final ')' (corresponding starter was at line 1)
at <tmp>:1
------> 3sub foo( Int(7⏏5Uint) $num ) { say "$num is good";}; foo
jmerelo p6: sub foo( Int(whatisthewhat) $num ) { say "$num is good";}; foo(3);
camelia 5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>
Unable to parse expression in typename; couldn't find final ')' (corresponding starter was at line 1)
at <tmp>:1
------> 3sub foo( Int(7⏏5whatisthewhat) $num ) { say "$num is goo
05:26 pharv joined 05:28 mcmillhj left 05:31 pharv left 05:32 AlexDaniel joined 05:34 Geth left 05:40 Starry joined
Starry Join 05:40
05:40 domidumont joined, Starry is now known as Guest8992 05:43 mcmillhj joined 05:45 domidumont left 05:46 domidumont joined 05:48 mcmillhj left 06:00 mcmillhj joined
Guest8992 Hello 06:03
06:05 mcmillhj left
lookatme Guest78496, Hello :) 06:11
jmerelo o/ 06:12
06:13 espadrine_ left 06:15 mcmillhj joined 06:19 mcmillhj left
El_Che Guest8992: hi 06:22
06:25 domidumont left 06:27 domidumont joined, robertle joined 06:30 mcmillhj joined 06:31 rindolf joined
jmerelo I've posted this github.com/perl6/ecosystem/issues/390 in the Perl ecosystem. I think we should really change the Travis Perl 6 build environment. Thoughts? 06:31
El_Che besides a es allellujah? 06:35
(crappy train connection)
06:35 mcmillhj left 06:37 abraxxa joined 06:45 mcmillhj joined
jmerelo El_Che: I think you have the packages tagged by rakudo star distro, right? 06:46
El_Che I don't know what that means 06:48
jmerelo you have packages for all versions, or many versions of Rakudo Star, right? 06:49
06:49 mcmillhj left
jmerelo .seen hoelzro 06:50
yoleaux I saw hoelzro 15 Mar 2018 20:12Z in #perl6: <hoelzro> I got basic functionality working - I don't remember doing anything with facet search
jmerelo .seen ugexe
yoleaux I saw ugexe 23 Nov 2017 15:02Z in #perl6: <ugexe> I’m getting tired of it
jmerelo .tell hoelzro about this github.com/perl6/ecosystem/issues/390
yoleaux jmerelo: I'll pass your message to hoelzro.
El_Che jmerelo: I put some remarks on the tickets
my train is arriving
bbl 06:51
jmerelo: I have pkgs for all releases from end 2016 onwards of Rakudo
no rakudo star
from somewhere in 2017 I added zef to the mix
packages can be recreated and adapted if needed
jmerelo El_Che++ 06:52
06:56 mcmillhj joined 07:01 mcmillhj left
stmuk_ there aren't any (well maybe appimage) rakudo star binary packages 07:07
07:08 mcmillhj joined, wamba joined 07:12 darutoko joined
jmerelo stmuk_: Yep there are rakudo.org/how-to-get-rakudo/ 07:12
For Linux, you can use nxadm's packages 07:13
07:13 mcmillhj left
jmerelo BTW, I don't get why Mac and Windows get an "official" Rakudo star binary, while you only get extraofficial ones for Linux. 07:14
ufobat_ i've got a grammar / regex question: Assuming i have a grammar for something (a rather short thingy) and this string is distributed in a bunch of Strings. What would the best way to scan for those matches
i guess i am looking for something like the perl5 m//g thing 07:15
jmerelo ufobat_: you can use regexes in grammars
ufobat_ but can i use grammars in regexes?
the string is "noise noise noise noise THINGY noise THINGY noise" and my grammar is for THINGY 07:16
07:16 andrzejku joined
jmerelo ufobat_: grammars are bunches of regexes. It's just a matter of putting them together 07:16
ufobat_: if you can express the whole internal structure of THINGY and capture it in a regex, I guess you can. But you're probably better of with a rule extracting THINGY and then a set of rules capturing stuff in it 07:17
At the end of the day, grammars are regexes on steroids. They allow you to structure the parsing of stuff 07:18
07:19 mcmillhj joined
stmuk_ jmerelo: because noone has done it 07:19
ufobat_ thats the point why i rather have a grammar for thingy then just a regex. but i am missing the part of how to apply those grammar muliply times on a string with "noise" inbetween the things i am looking for
stmuk_ jmerelo: apart from appimage and docker 07:20
jmerelo stmuk_: well, nxadm has :-) 07:21
stmuk_ no
jmerelo ufobat_: you'll have to include a rule in the grammar to skip noise 07:22
stmuk_ he doesn't bundle any modules like star does (although he has a script to install zef)
moritz ufobat_: you have to use .*? at the start to force scanning
jmerelo stmuk_: that can easily be done...
moritz ufobat_: and then use .subparse instead of .parse to allow a match that doesn't reach the end of the string
stmuk_ jmerelo: no it can't
the root problem is probably DESTDIR support in star 07:23
ufobat_ moritz, the '.*?' in the grammar?
07:23 mcmillhj left
moritz ufobat_: yes, in a regex (not token or rule) 07:24
ufobat_ woudn't it make sense to have 2 grammars, one for THINGY and which makes sense to the outer world as well, and a 2nd for parsing my string?
stmuk_ an ideal packaging would probably be star as a metapackage of moar, nqp, rakudo and all the modules as packaging
moritz ufobat_: no need to go that far; you can have a separate regex that does the scanning, and invoke it with YourGrammar.subparse($string, :rule<scanning_TOP>); or so 07:25
where regex scanning_TOP { .*? <TOP> }
or so
jmerelo stmuk_: why is that a problem? 07:26
ufobat_ cute!
thanks!
moritz yw
stmuk_ jmerelo: is what a problem?
jmerelo stmuk_: anyway, I don't think that's impossible to do... From what I have seen in the perl6/doc stats, there's a good amount of perl6 users that work in Linux
stmuk_: the DESTDIR thing. 07:27
stmuk_ because it makes the job of the linux distro packagers harder
07:28 pharv joined
stmuk_ debian are quite advanced with packaging rakudo itself but no modules AFAIK . OpenSUSE has modules packaged (by nine :-) ) 07:29
jmerelo stmuk_: not impossible. Point is, you can provide precompiled binaries in many ways possible. Travis does not really care. To the point in this case, I think we should provide binaries for Linux. You can use snap for Ubuntu, for example.
stmuk_ wow 07:30
build.opensuse.org/project/show/de...ages:perl6
07:30 mcmillhj joined
stmuk_ jmerelo: are you talking about rakudo or star? 07:30
07:30 scimon joined
stmuk_ cro is on OpenSUSE! 07:31
07:32 pharv left 07:35 mcmillhj left
jmerelo stmuk_: star 07:36
BTW, this must be like the meta-est pull request ever github.com/perl6/doc/pull/987
jmerelo: plus there's a typo in the comments :-)
07:41 mcmillhj joined 07:43 pmurias joined
pmurias why do we have a byte type? 07:43
notostraca why do you have an int type? 07:44
or any numeric type... 07:45
pmurias notostraca: because they are useful?
notostraca yes...
pmurias byte is just an alias for uint8
07:46 mcmillhj left
notostraca C has uint8_t as an alias for (usually) char 07:46
no one really is concerned about removing char
names are important and sometimes byte is most clear 07:47
byte is clearer than char in C
07:56 mcmillhj joined 07:58 wamba left 08:00 sena_kun joined
El_Che stmuk_: zef is nowadays part of the package 08:00
stmuk_: zef "as root", the script is for zef@$HOME 08:01
not an arrayref :)
08:01 mcmillhj left
stmuk_ El_Che++ 08:03
El_Che jmerelo: the thing is that Star and rakudo-pkg's scope is different by designed. Star is a distribution of useful modules, rakudo-pkg wants to be the opposite, just rakudo + zef. I have containers and my regular rakudo usage in mind (I don't like modules installed by default if they are not core)
jmerelo: for a lot of beginning users, the modules selection does make sense 08:04
stmuk_ I think there is a strong argument for shipping "p6doc" and the pod6 docs as well (although sadly its very tightly coupled with the web site generation code) 08:05
El_Che rakudo not being relocable is kind of an hassle that results in use requiring root/Administrator on all OSes
stmuk_ for me the sweet spot would be zef+p6doc+rakudo
jmerelo El_Che: point is, this is what we need for Travis
El_Che I would expect the doc in star, though 08:06
I was surprised I ended working more with the site
instead of locally installed doc
stmuk_ El_Che: I'm thinking if the website is down, someone is on a plane or behind the firewall from hell 08:08
I left one job (German bank) after github was blocked 08:09
08:13 mcmillhj joined 08:14 dakkar joined 08:18 mcmillhj left 08:23 zakharyas joined 08:26 brrt joined
jmerelo Some quick stats on the perl6/doc site issues github.com/JJ/TPF-Grant/blob/maste...issues.csv Mainly the stuff I'm interested in: opener, closer, status, time when it was opened and closed, and relationship to the repo. Maybe I should add tags, but for the time being, it's enough. 08:26
08:29 mcmillhj joined 08:33 dalek joined, synopsebot left, SourceBaby left, sergot left, ChanServ sets mode: +v dalek, Geth joined, p6lert joined, ChanServ sets mode: +v Geth, synopsebot joined, ChanServ sets mode: +v synopsebot 08:34 mcmillhj left, SourceBaby joined, ChanServ sets mode: +v SourceBaby
timotimo don't forget to also handle (multiple) re-opens 08:34
jmerelo timotimo: I don't think I have that info in the API. Let me check. 08:36
Geth marketing: f12f5a5bfe | (Zoffix Znet)++ | 4 files
Rearrange colors in "Perfect Rainbow" camelia
jmerelo Anyway, here's the first result. Issue opener hall of fame: github.com/JJ/TPF-Grant/blob/maste...-perl6.png and issue closer hall of fame github.com/JJ/TPF-Grant/blob/maste...-pern6.png 08:37
timotimo what is this pern6 thing i see, is this a new secret project 08:38
can you angle the text at the bottom a few degrees to make it easier to read? or perhaps have the bars be rows instead of columns?
jmerelo timotimo: sure. And change the name too :-) 08:39
timotimo how come so many people have a bar that's 0px tall? :o
jmerelo timotimo: I think it's because it's logarithmic. But I'll have to check 08:40
08:40 cog_ joined
Geth marketing: 9f4259aa4f | (Zoffix Znet)++ | 8 files
Rev2 of "Perl 6 Resources" card

Fixes github.com/perl6/marketing/issues/12		 08:41
08:48 mcmillhj joined
jmerelo timotimo: filtered "openers" bars github.com/JJ/TPF-Grant/blob/maste...-perl6.png 08:48
pmurias the whole idea of star seems like a temporary measure, installing modules should aim to be good enough that bundling stuff shouldn't offer a significant benefit 08:52
08:53 mcmillhj left 09:05 wamba joined 09:06 mcmillhj joined
stmuk_ pmurias: I don't agree and hope someone else continues with star in 2019 09:06
09:08 ismailarilik joined
stmuk_ its also the only way of building a release without git 09:10
ok only *easy* way :)
09:11 mcmillhj left
Geth marketing: zoffixznet self-assigned “Monthy” typo github.com/perl6/marketing/issues/13
065b3be182 | (Zoffix Znet)++ | 5 files

Fixes github.com/perl6/marketing/issues/13		 09:17
09:18 domidumont1 joined 09:19 Bowlslaw left, benjikun left, mcmillhj joined
09:20 benjikun joined 09:21 domidumont left 09:24 mcmillhj left 09:26 rindolf left
jmerelo After fixing the typo that fixes the explanation on fixing typo, we get today the Monthy Typon. :-) 09:27
09:28 markong joined 09:29 pharv joined 09:30 rindolf joined 09:31 mcmillhj joined
lizmat
.oO( Hakcathon )
 09:32
09:33 pharv left 09:37 mcmillhj left
Ulti whoa big speedup on my tests 09:43
09:43 zakharyas left
Ulti down to about 0.8s 09:43
what happened in the last couple of days
timotimo what was it before?
maybe the native array splice changes did that? 09:44
Ulti 0.9 pushing 1s
so probably about 15%
given it was sometimes over 1s
timotimo: possibly
its more likely string and hash with my code
timotimo oh, samcv++ improved performance of some string operations 09:45
samcv Ulti: what does the test cover?
also yeah. 4x speedup collapsing strands
09:48 mcmillhj joined 09:50 zakharyas joined 09:51 araujo left 09:52 araujo joined, araujo left, araujo joined, mcmillhj left
Ulti samcv: github.com/MattOates/BioInfo/blob/...equences.t 09:54
09:56 cog_ left
Ulti this is the main function thats getting called a lot github.com/MattOates/BioInfo/blob/...ic.pm6#L57 09:56
lizmat Ulti: would you benefit from an int2 datatype, or can your sequences also contain "unknown" values ?
Ulti hah funny you should say that, yeah 2bit and 3bit formats exist for DNA sequences
3bit is obviously quite annoying given alignment
I was considering implementing a string encoding for 2bit 09:57
lizmat yup, probably easier / faster to do 4 bit then actually, unless you have really ginormous sequences
Ulti well the other advantage is something like the bitap algorithm gets a lot faster with a small bit sized alphabet 09:58
lots of bioinformatics formats just zip ASCII which I find really annoying given you could just use a better binary representation for most of the compression and then run length encode or something
lizmat I'm looking at implementing perl 5's vec() 09:59
Ulti which means you could be small and directly operate on the data
lizmat: wow I didnt even know about that function in P5 after this many years
lizmat Ulti: a small dictionary means it automatically uses fewer bits for zipping, does it not? 10:00
or does it always assume a dictionary of at least 256 >?
10:00 mcmillhj joined
lizmat Ulti: yeah, like pack() it's one of the hidden gems :-) 10:00
Ulti in these other formats? they always assume byte characters so it will probably zip down to something not entirely different to run length encoded 2bit format
for protein molecules you have a larger alphabet though so if you want something that deals with all sequences you might as well deal in bytes 10:02
jmerelo Ulti: that would be inmensely useful for evolutionary algorithms, if it's fast. 10:04
10:05 mcmillhj left 10:07 Guest8992 left 10:08 w_richard_w left
lizmat well, for it to be fast, native int1, int2 and int4 would have to be supported at VM level 10:08
jmerelo Perl6/doc issue closer, in a logarithmic scale github.com/JJ/TPF-Grant/blob/maste...l6-doc.png 10:10
10:12 brrt left 10:13 mcmillhj joined
AlexDaniel jmerelo: what's the first one? 10:14
jmerelo AlexDaniel: I think it's simply those that have not been closed. 10:16
thus closer == ""
Let me filter that
AlexDaniel oh
pmurias lizmat: the VMs would need to support native arrays of int1, int2, int4 right? native int1 variables don't seem that useful
lizmat bitmaps can be useful, no ? 10:17
10:18 rindolf left
pmurias lizmat: yes 10:18
lizmat my int1 @a # bitmap ?
10:18 mcmillhj left
pmurias lizmat: yes ;) 10:19
lizmat: I meant that we can store a single bit in my int $bit rather then need special VM support
lizmat true, but then you'd need 8x as much memory 10:20
jmerelo AlexDaniel: take a look now github.com/JJ/TPF-Grant/blob/maste...l6-doc.png
lizmat I concede that's not as important now as it was once
and from a power point of few, the extra cycles needed to access / change the one bit is probably more than just using bytes 10:21
but still, it could be useful on memory challenged machines, like Raspberry Pi's and BeagleBoards and the like
10:21 rindolf joined 10:24 mcmillhj joined 10:29 mcmillhj left 10:30 cog_ joined
jmerelo More data: this is the issue graph jj.github.io/TPF-Grant/html/opener...index.html It links "openers" and "closers". Zoom in to see (a little bit) more 10:30
You can also hover over links to see who links to whom.
Ulti lizmat: are they memory challenged?
lizmat if you try to run Rakudo on them :-) 10:31
Ulti hah maybe
1GB is still a lot
lizmat at the GPW I worked with a BeagleBoard with 512 MB (if I recall correctly) 10:32
definitely not enough to build Rakudo
tyil 1gb raspi can build it
Ulti lizmat: sure but you rarely build on embedded type devices you transpile and throw on a binary 10:33
tyil (though tbf, I think rasbian also adds some swap by default)
lizmat which is the goal of some people :-)
Ulti at least I assume the Debian for ARM isn't actually all compiled on an ARM system 10:34
10:34 benjikun left
Ulti maybe they have a farm of phones or something 10:34
10:36 benjikun joined 10:37 mcmillhj joined 10:41 mcmillhj left 10:46 HaraldJoerg joined
pmurias how do I fudge an entire block instead of just the tests inside it? 10:51
10:52 mcmillhj joined
moritz doesn't #?skip in front of the block work? 10:55
10:56 mcmillhj left
pmurias moritz: #?rakudo.js skip 1 "uint64 not implemented" 10:58
{
moritz: seems to skip only the test
assertion but not the test setup
moritz pmurias: have you looked at the generated fudge file to verify that?
10:59 brrt joined
pmurias moritz: yes 11:00
moritz: not nesting the block worked 11:03
11:12 khw joined 11:22 cog_ left 11:23 lizmat left 11:24 ismailarilik left 11:26 kurahaupo left 11:27 kurahaupo joined
perlbot Anonymous pasted a new file at f.perlbot.pl/p/b9bshs - 11:28
11:29 zakharyas left, kurahaupo_ joined 11:30 pharv joined 11:31 kurahaupo left 11:32 lizmat joined 11:33 le_zap joined 11:35 pharv left 11:37 le_zap left 11:38 FROGGS joined 11:49 epony joined 11:52 epony left, epony joined
AlexDaniel huggable: try 11:55
huggable AlexDaniel, tio.run/#perl6 glot.io/new/perl6 f.perlbot.pl/#perl6 ideone.com/
AlexDaniel huggable: try :is: tio.run/#perl6 glot.io/new/perl6 f.perlbot.pl/#perl6 ideone.com/ mybinder.org/v2/gh/bduggan/p6-jupy...orld.ipynb
huggable AlexDaniel, Added try as tio.run/#perl6 glot.io/new/perl6 f.perlbot.pl/#perl6 ideone.com/ mybinder.org/v2/gh/bduggan/p6-jupy...orld.ipynb
12:01 kurahaupo joined 12:03 kurahaupo_ left 12:11 mcmillhj joined 12:12 rindolf left 12:15 kurahaupo left, domidumont joined 12:16 mcmillhj left 12:18 domidumont1 left 12:20 rindolf joined 12:27 pharv joined 12:31 zakharyas joined, pharv left
buggable New CPAN upload: List-Util-0.0.4.tar.gz by ELIZABETH cpan.metacpan.org/authors/id/E/EL/...0.4.tar.gz 12:34
12:37 jmerelo left
[Coke] Anyone getting failures on doc builds with "too many open files" after my tempfile change 12:37
?
sena_kun [Coke], I did not run docs building for a long time, but wanted to note: last time we rolled this change back because of github.com/perlpilot/p6-File-Temp/issues/18 and it does not look to me like it is resolved. 12:41
12:42 kurahaupo joined, Util joined
sena_kun trying it out... 12:42
buggable New CPAN upload: P5-X-0.0.2.tar.gz by ELIZABETH cpan.metacpan.org/authors/id/E/EL/...0.2.tar.gz 12:44
12:48 mcmillhj joined
buggable New CPAN upload: P5caller-0.0.2.tar.gz by ELIZABETH cpan.metacpan.org/authors/id/E/EL/...0.2.tar.gz 12:54
New CPAN upload: P5chomp-0.0.2.tar.gz by ELIZABETH cpan.metacpan.org/authors/id/E/EL/...0.2.tar.gz
sena_kun [Coke], reproduced it. `Failed to open file /tmp/Inm8dABs46: Too many open files` 12:57
buggable New CPAN upload: P5chop-0.0.2.tar.gz by ELIZABETH cpan.metacpan.org/authors/id/E/EL/...0.2.tar.gz 13:04
13:07 Herby_ joined
Herby_ o/ 13:07
13:07 brrt left
buggable New CPAN upload: P5chr-0.0.3.tar.gz by ELIZABETH cpan.metacpan.org/authors/id/E/EL/...0.3.tar.gz 13:14
New CPAN upload: P5each-0.0.2.tar.gz by ELIZABETH cpan.metacpan.org/authors/id/E/EL/...0.2.tar.gz
New CPAN upload: P5fc-0.0.2.tar.gz by ELIZABETH cpan.metacpan.org/authors/id/E/EL/...0.2.tar.gz
[Coke] sena_kun: note that that ticket says that the OP reported it incorrectly. 13:20
"So it turns out I was disabling unlinking on the wrong tempfile."
sena_kun: will have a fix shortly. 13:21
sena_kun [Coke], yes, I saw that. Along with "DESTROY submethods are called (if they exist) when an object is garbage-collected.".
[Coke]++
[Coke] I'm letting the module deal with unlinking, but will close out the unused handle. 13:23
buggable New CPAN upload: P5hex-0.0.3.tar.gz by ELIZABETH cpan.metacpan.org/authors/id/E/EL/...0.3.tar.gz 13:24
New CPAN upload: P5index-0.0.2.tar.gz by ELIZABETH cpan.metacpan.org/authors/id/E/EL/...0.2.tar.gz
New CPAN upload: P5lc-0.0.2.tar.gz by ELIZABETH cpan.metacpan.org/authors/id/E/EL/...0.2.tar.gz
New CPAN upload: P5lcfirst-0.0.3.tar.gz by ELIZABETH cpan.metacpan.org/authors/id/E/EL/...0.3.tar.gz
13:32 test789 joined
buggable New CPAN upload: P5length-0.0.3.tar.gz by ELIZABETH cpan.metacpan.org/authors/id/E/EL/...0.3.tar.gz 13:34
New CPAN upload: P5oct-0.0.3.tar.gz by ELIZABETH cpan.metacpan.org/authors/id/E/EL/...0.3.tar.gz
New CPAN upload: P5ord-0.0.3.tar.gz by ELIZABETH cpan.metacpan.org/authors/id/E/EL/...0.3.tar.gz
13:35 HaraldJoerg1 joined 13:36 eliasr joined 13:38 HaraldJoerg left 13:40 kurahaupo_ joined 13:41 kurahaupo left
[Coke] .seen perlpilot 13:43
yoleaux I saw perlpilot 6 Mar 2018 03:34Z in #perl6: <perlpilot> Zoffix: thanks.
[Coke] .ask perlpilot - any thoughts on a File::Temp option that doesn't bother opening a file handle? 13:44
yoleaux [Coke]: I'll pass your message to perlpilot.
13:44 Zoffix joined
Zoffix Following up on yesterday's discussion on rakudo.org: I got a reply from pmichaud. The work will be done today/tomorrow. 13:45
13:45 mr_ron joined
AlexDaniel yay 13:49
lizmat Zoffix: *phew* 13:50
do you know if there are any plans to move the domain to TPF?
13:50 kurahaupo joined
lizmat 1. it is about to expire on 18 June, 2. it really should be TPF's and not petdance I would think 13:51
Zoffix lizmat: would be nice.
But I've not discussed ownership with pmichaud and don't recall anything mentioned on the subject
13:52 kurahaupo_ left
lizmat well, we have still ~ 2 months before someone needs to pay to keep the registration 13:52
13:52 kurahaupo_ joined
AlexDaniel you can transfer it any time you want, the expiration date is irrelevant 13:53
lizmat yes, I know 13:54
but if nobody acts on the expiration, we'll lose the domain :-((
buggable New CPAN upload: P5pack-0.0.2.tar.gz by ELIZABETH cpan.metacpan.org/authors/id/E/EL/...0.2.tar.gz
New CPAN upload: P5quotemeta-0.0.2.tar.gz by ELIZABETH cpan.metacpan.org/authors/id/E/EL/...0.2.tar.gz
New CPAN upload: P5ref-0.0.3.tar.gz by ELIZABETH cpan.metacpan.org/authors/id/E/EL/...0.3.tar.gz
New CPAN upload: P5reverse-0.0.2.tar.gz by ELIZABETH cpan.metacpan.org/authors/id/E/EL/...0.2.tar.gz
FROGGS what domain is this about?
13:55 wamba left
lizmat rakudo.org 13:55
FROGGS ohh, that'd be sad
13:55 kurahaupo left
lizmat indeed 13:55
Zoffix lizmat: why not just package all those modules in a single dist? Installing `P5built-ins` with zef takes nearly 3+ minutes because it callects all the deps. And quotemeta actually fails so after ~2m I had to restart with --force and wait another 2m44s and now it crashed entirely due to some bug when installing P5times ( Arg count 0 doesn't equal required operand count 1 for op 'getrusage' ) 13:56
tyil being able to pull in just what you need sounds like a nice benefit as well tho 13:57
lizmat and that's the reason :)
will get to P5times in a mo
Zoffix You can pull in what you need without spreading everything into a dozen separate dists.
You do that right now already, in P5-builtins 13:58
lizmat also wrt to installing ?
I must admit I'm a little bit in two minds about this
tyil installing dists with deps is always slow in my experience 13:59
Zoffix But does it matter if you have P5lc installed, even if you don't use it?
tyil I dont see why its only an issue in this particular case
FROGGS well, I'd prefere to do: use P5stuff <pack ref lc lcfirst ...>; instead of: use P5pack; use P5ref; use P5lc; P5lcfirst ... 14:00
or am I wrong?
tyil I personally consider zef a tool to install what I want
not something to just install everything that exists
lizmat FROGGS: but you can: use P5built-ins <pack ref lc lcfirst ... >
tyil you could argue that having every single module installed is ok if you only use the ones you actually need 14:01
Zoffix FROGGS: that's what you get with `use P5built-ins <pack ref lc>`. Except to do that, you need to install P5pack, P5ref, and P5lc all separately
FROGGS tyil: sure, but you still install List::Util in P5 because you need one function it exports... or do you rip it in pieces?
lizmat Zoffix: not seperately, all of the P5modules are dependencies of P5built-ins
FROGGS Zoffix: I see
tyil FROGGS: I don't do p5 in daily life
FROGGS tyil: that translates to other languages... if a dist offers a bunch of helper functions you usually install that dist and import the function you want 14:02
ufobat_ why is pack/unpack not in p6 core?
tyil I generally prefer having different functionalities split into different modules, tho
FROGGS you usually dont install parts of such a dist
lizmat ufobat_: a version of it *is*
ufobat_: but marked as experimental 14:03
Geth doc: 003da564a6 | (Will "Coke" Coleda)++ | htmlify.p6
Close out unused filehandle so we don't leak.

Part of #1062
ufobat_ what is its name?
tyil FROGGS: and that's where you're wrong, I actively change compile-time flags to get rid of certain things in certain programs/libs already
Zoffix ufobat_: pack/unpack
FROGGS O.o
ufobat_ hmpf.. ;)
lizmat tyil: that's not wrong, you just do it differently
FROGGS tyil: can you give an example? 14:04
tyil FROGGS: I have w3m without image support
I have PHP without most of the db modules
[Coke] m: use experimental :pack; pack 'something'
tyil because I only use psql
camelia Unrecognized directive 's'
in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1
tyil I have firefox compiled without their drm stuff
buggable New CPAN upload: P5rindex-0.0.2.tar.gz by ELIZABETH cpan.metacpan.org/authors/id/E/EL/...0.2.tar.gz
[Coke] sena_kun: fixed handle issue
Zoffix m: use experimental :pack; say (pack "A*", "meows").decode: "utf8"
camelia meows
lizmat Zoffix: I think the major problem atm is that installing takes relatively long
sena_kun [Coke]++
lizmat hopes we can fix that at the PTS 14:05
FROGGS tyil: okay, so this is about only installing feature packs of given software...
tyil FROGGS: I consider a dist lib
and I dont want to have one massive lib if I only need one tiny feature 14:06
lizmat Zoffix: meanwhile, I think I'm going to continue with my current approach
tyil especially if it means the lib is now doing many things
instead of doing one thing very well
FROGGS that is a bit like optional dependencies of (meta)-packages/dists that give you extra stuff
lizmat Zoffix: because: 1. putting all of P5 functions into a single dist will make maint more of a problem
[Coke] sena_kun: don't karma me, I'm the one that broke it! :)
lizmat and 2. having a dist with many, many dependencies is a good testcase for zef
tyil I prefer my libs small and specialized
FROGGS I guess I agree to some degree 14:08
sena_kun [Coke] updates are nice still. I have not commited to docs for a long time.
Zoffix lizmat: not IMO. "Perl 5 built-ins" seems a fairly self-contained unit, parts of which are unlikely to contain some exotic dependencies, and which is likely to be used for more than 1 routine. Having it split into dozens of modules is like publishing HTTP::Client, and having HTTP::Client::get, HTTP::Client::post, HTTP::Client::put, HTTP::Client::delete, HTTP::Client::head, all in separate modules.
FROGGS though it is nice to install Mojolicious in two seconds or so
tyil with zef?
FROGGS no, cpanminus, it is a single dist P5 thing
tyil anything with deps takes longer than "two seconds or so" to install in zef 14:09
Zoffix lizmat: and it's not just upload. Right now installation of P5built-ins crashes wiht "Arg count 0 doesn't equal required operand count 1 for op 'getrusage'"... So where's that error coming from? I'd need to clone a dozen repos to find the offending code. Where do I report the problem? To P5built-in or to some other repo?
etc, etc.
tyil things without deps as well from my experience
lizmat Zoffix: I would say that's an issue with zef, really
tyil cpanm is relatively fast no matter whether it's got a big list of deps in my experience
lizmat if a dependencies test fails, you need to know which dependency
tyil I don't think you should compare the very fast cpanm with the currently rather slow zef and then blame it on the modules for installing too slow 14:10
Zoffix lizmat: it says it fails in t/01-basic.t of P5built-ins. But P5built-ins loads a dozen modules.
mst shipping a heavily-in-development system as a billion tiny modules is basically just a way of saying to users "don't bother even trying to use this" 14:11
which is fine, if that's what you're going for
FROGGS tyil: that's not what I meant... I am just saying that the approach of Mojolicious (do everything in one dist) is not quiet unixy but is handy in situations
mst but should be documented as "horribly user-unfriendly, avoid unless you're the author"
lizmat mst: that's *not* what I was going for
mst lizmat: well, it's apparently what you've achieved
lizmat "shipping a heavily-in-development system as a billion tiny module" 14:12
tyil FROGGS: saving a couple seconds once is not worth the maintainance trouble and bloat that comes with it in my opinion
lizmat mst: what do you mean by "shipping a heavily-in-development system as a billion tiny module"
what is heavily-in development here ?
FROGGS tyil: well, on the pro side you dont have dependency version problems ;o) 14:13
mst well, your p5built-ins is sufficiently new I'd assume it's heavily in development and it's evidently far from stable
tyil FROGGS: instead, the entire module fails completely if there's an issue
mst and zoffix is right, shipping it as a single monolithic package to begin with would be a much better idea until things calm down
Zoffix greppable6: getrusage
tyil I don't think that's a "pro" compared to simply splitting up your modules 14:14
greppable6 Zoffix, 5 lines, 2 modules: gist.github.com/d2429c75b2fb8ec534...293f2d25c0
FROGGS tyil: and there is a difference between firefox's drm and a list of functions a dist potentially exports... you import the stuff you are interested in, the rest is inactive... not so with most of the "feature packs" of other software models
mst tyil: mojo is fairly tightly coupled and honestly there's so little of it that in practice it's not an issue
tyil drm is a "potentially exported function" in firefox
mst like, it looks like it shouldn't work, for all the reasons you just said 14:15
FROGGS tyil: think of P6-dist installing like software downloading, and function importing as compiling certain featureset
tyil I dont simple "not use it", I dont have it installed
mst but meanwhile out in the real world it does
and comparing mojo to DRM is silly
tyil I'm not saying it doesnt work either, I'm saying I dont prefer it due to all the potential issues you can have with it
you can surely make it work, like most things in the software world 14:16
mst I'm saying that *for mojolicious* those issues don't exist in practice
tyil doesnt mean its the best approach
mst so I don't understand what your claim is
tyil maybe you should read from the top instead of barging in later and not understanding the topic we're talking about
FROGGS mst: I brought mojo up btw
mst tyil: please don't be rude just because I made a specific claim and you wanted to have a meta argument 14:17
tyil I'm "rude" because you're not paying attention, and last time you talked to me you threatened to ban me because I didnt agree with you
mst FROGGS: I saw. I did, in fact, read from before that point and didn't start talking until I had enough context
14:17 cog_ joined
lizmat fwiw, I don't agree with mst either 14:18
mst I'm happy to be disagreed with
tyil you didnt looked like that last time
lizmat tyil: let's look forward rather than back
FROGGS well, maybe we should calm down a little
Ulti mst you should probably never look at npm and Javascript
mst tyil: possibly I was still annoyed about your being about to upload something to CPAN with a 'perl6-nigger' directory. 14:19
FROGGS I like the unix modell of doing just one thing and that thing well, but to me this is more about functions or executables, and not neccessarily about distributions
I still can decide which part of the dist I am going to use, and the rest is just dead code on my hard disk
tyil yes, I clearly remember your shortsightedness and calling me a racist with no solid basis, and then applying power abuse to make your claim the only absolute truth 14:20
lizmat *sigh*
14:20 FROGGS_ joined
FROGGS_ and I dont really care if there is code I'm not going to use today for reasons 14:21
14:21 cfa joined
mst tyil: perhaps you could focus on actually responding to the technical claim I was making rather than insulting me 14:21
I'm still being polite here several insults in
lizmat Zoffix: re P5built-ins, and its dependencies: I'm open for alternatives that let people easily just use what they want and would allow for the same maint flexibility 14:22
tyil I'm just politely telling you why I very much dislike you and consider your "claim" as not worth the hassle
you dont understand my claim that I think libs/modules sholud be small and specialized, literally one of the most common UNIX principles 14:23
mst I do understand that claim, thabnk you.
tyil then whats your issue?
mst I believe in that, in general, but am not dogmatic about it, because sometimes tighter coupling is a good idea
FROGGS_ lizmat: isnt it more maintainer friendly to put the dozens function in a single dist and do one release?
tyil yes, and it is not in the case lizmat/zoffix were talking about (imo) 14:24
mst see also: perl5, which *itself* is a not-small-and-specialized thing
tyil so again, whats your issue
mst in this case, what I'm suggesting is that it would be easier to have a bundled set for ease of testing/debugging until things stabilise and then split them up
lizmat FROGGS_: my point is really that I don't want to be the maintainer of P5built-ins indefinitely
14:24 FROGGS left 14:25 HaraldJoerg1 left
lizmat I want to provide a source direct accessibility to P5 functionality in Perl 6 14:25
*of
Zoffix lizmat: do you care if P5times is broken on rakudos older than v2018.03.89.g.1321917.d.1 ?
FROGGS_ lizmat: well, could be a group of ppl... or do you want to be able to keep some P5functions and other ppl do others?
14:25 HaraldJoerg joined
lizmat well, that's an interesting question 14:25
I don't think I care
Zoffix: so let's assume the new format 14:26
14:26 jmerelo joined
lizmat FROGGS_: yes, that, so that we can farm out support if need be 14:26
Zoffix ok
mst tyil: the part I didn't understand was you comparing mojo to DRM, which I still can't see the link
lizmat Zoffix: thanks
FROGGS_ I would like to know if there are more ppl here in this channel that would like to install only these few P5 functions they need rather installing all of them and only using the wanted ones
Ulti lizmat with your implementation of ref what about all the positional and associative things that aren't Array or Hash?
tyil mst: I didnt compare mojo to drm, but whatever 14:27
lizmat Ulti: patches welcome :-)
Ulti what happens in P5 actually if you do ref on a tied hash
lizmat: hah, its more a philisophical question rather than a critique
lizmat in my experience, many modules on CPAN use ref() to find out what type of ref they got and act accordingly 14:28
Ulti P5 doesn't have an immutable associative type afaik?
so that might shock people
mst Ulti: you get back 'HASH'
lizmat there's locked hashes
Zoffix lizmat: sent a PR fixing the crash: github.com/lizmat/P5times/pull/1
c: 3468f6908ba5aaecd3b6168ba4800cde0f7dcfbb~2,HEAD use nqp; constant is-new = $*PERL.compiler.version after v2018.03.89.g.1321917.d.1; is-new ?? nqp::getrusage(my int @usage) !! (my \r := nqp::getrusage)
committable6 Zoffix, ¦3468f6908ba5aaecd3b6168ba4800cde0f7dcfbb~2: «» ¦HEAD(affeaa7): «===SORRY!===␤Arg count 0 doesn't equal required operand count 1 for op 'getrusage'␤ «exit code = 1»»
Ulti ahh ok so HASH does really kind of mean mappable thing with keys
mst if you want to change the behaviour of ref() you need to use p3rl.org/UNIVERSAL::ref and a class
Zoffix lizmat: ^ tried to make it work on old compilers too, but looks like it checks the args to the op even if you don't invoke it 14:29
Ulti scary stuff
lizmat: locked hashes?
FROGGS_ Zoffix: aye, arg-count gets checked at compile time
lizmat Zoffix: yeah, and it does so very late
at MAST time, I believe
Zoffix Ah
lizmat it's a pain when making such a mistake while compiling the setting
FROGGS_ true 14:30
lizmat or a typo in the nqp::op name
FROGGS_ we're still complaining on a high level though... remember few years ago, when a typo gave you enough time to not just make tee, but to buy it first? 14:32
stage parse took up to 15 minutes on my box... 14:33
Zoffix yikes
FROGGS_ nowadays I can often enough just recompile parts of moarvm in literally seconds and continue testing
tadzik ooh, I member
FROGGS_ :D
tadzik when alpha was doing some things that the master did not 14:34
Zoffix Weird. P5quotemeta was failing originally, but now it doesn't
FROGGS_ back to topic, I just believe that a 1:1 relationship between functions and dists is crazy... if the functions were groupable on types it operates on or so one could have best of both worlds 14:36
pmurias don't all the p5builtins serve a different purpose?
Zoffix oh well
14:36 Zoffix left 14:37 cfa left
lizmat in any case, these dists have been on CPAN since end of January 14:40
today I found out that mi6 uses a different (automated) way of handling Changes files 14:41
so I'm now converting those modules
I don't see why it is all of a sudden a problem now, when it is clearly already a problem for 2.5 months
FROGGS_ ahh, that's why you release so many of them :o)
14:42 Sgeo__ joined
lizmat so maybe we should have a separate channel for CPAN uploads? aka "#news" on irc.perl.org ? 14:42
jmerelo timotimo: you were mentioning re-opens of issues, and in fact that's not in the issue API, you have to go to a different, event API api.github.com/repos/perl6/doc/iss...46/events. If I want to use that I'll have to kinda think deeper about storage and stuff.
lizmat to reduce noise here
FROGGS_ lizmat: I can just say that I wasnt here for a while and I'm sorry if I helped to start a discussion about this
lizmat no worries 14:43
FROGGS_ I dont think this is a problem at all actually, just a inconvenienve for one or the other
jmerelo lizmat: if it helps having that controlled, fine. If it's going to be the same bunch of people now listening on several channels, well...
lizmat it's just that I don't like mst just butting in saying something I made is clearly not stable
when in fact the problem was caused by a change in MoarVM
we would need something like BBC :-) 14:44
FROGGS_ BBC?
lizmat blogs.perl.org/users/atoomic/2018/0...a-bbc.html
FROGGS_ ahh
true
buggable New CPAN upload: P5sleep-0.0.4.tar.gz by ELIZABETH cpan.metacpan.org/authors/id/E/EL/...0.4.tar.gz
New CPAN upload: P5times-0.0.2.tar.gz by ELIZABETH cpan.metacpan.org/authors/id/E/EL/...0.2.tar.gz
14:45 Sgeo_ left
lizmat in any case, the number of Perl 5 functions that will be ported is finite 14:45
jmerelo lizmat: it's probably infinite, but we're doing lazy evaluation.
lizmat and as I said: I think it's also a good test case for zef in the meantime
FROGGS_
.oO( What if that BBC would also involve statistics from darkpans...)
mst lizmat: my apologies, though my point that "maybe one big dist would be less hassle overall for a while and then you split it up later" I think still stands as a point for *consideration*
jmerelo lizmat: (just joking) 14:46
lizmat mst: it does
meaning: I'm still in two minds about it
and now /me is going to get some fresh air cycling& 14:47
FROGGS_ lizmat: group functions by topic... ...and be third minded :P
bbi1h
14:48 FROGGS|m joined, FROGGS_ left 14:52 esh joined 14:53 adu joined 14:59 Sgeo_ joined 15:02 Sgeo__ left 15:06 wamba joined 15:17 brrt joined 15:18 adu left, domidumont left, domidumont1 joined 15:20 domidumont1 left 15:21 athenot joined 15:22 pharv joined
kybr a while back i happened upon a sort of tutorial/example using perl6 to make a toy language it called "Perl 7". i can't find it now. does anyone know what i'm talking about? 15:34
15:36 brrt left
jmerelo kybr: a bit of more context? 15:36
[Coke] it was zoffix's.
github.com/zoffixznet/perl7
kybr omg. sorry. thank you! 15:37
jmerelo Done in nqp. Cool :-)
15:38 Zoffix joined
Zoffix kybr: it's actually github.com/perl7/perl7/ 15:39
15:39 kurahaupo joined
Zoffix kybr: also, it's not using Perl 6. It's using NQP compiler toolkit and there's no user/backcompat support for it. 15:40
[Coke] whoops, sorry about the wrong link.
kybr user/backcompat support?
15:41 kurahaupo_ left, cog_ left
Zoffix kybr: you're not meant to use it. It's for use for rakudo core devs only and its ops can be changed at any time without notice. In fact, just a few lines above, there was a module breakage because someone used NQP in a module: irclog.perlgeek.de/perl6/2018-04-11#i_16034505 15:42
kybr i'm not looking to use github.com/perl7/perl7/ for anything other than an example of using nqp to make teaching languages.
Zoffix huggable: internals 15:43
huggable Zoffix, nothing found
Zoffix huggable: internals course
huggable Zoffix, Rakudo/NQP Internals Course: github.com/edumentab/rakudo-and-nq...s-workshop
15:43 kurahaupo_ joined
kybr ooooooo. cool. thanks!' 15:43
Zoffix kybr: the perl7/perl7 is based on ^ that course.
15:43 pharv left
Zoffix (in the course, a "rubyish" language is made) 15:43
kybr got it. that's even better.
15:44 pharv joined 15:46 kurahaupo left, kurahaupo joined 15:48 kurahaupo_ left 15:49 robertle left
Zoffix lizmat: "a sudden a problem now". Not really a problem. I tried to install it to test if having a bunch of `use`es is super slow and reported the issues, then everyone piled in. -1 on having separate channel for CPAN reports; we already have too many channels :/ 15:53
15:54 kurahaupo_ joined 15:55 kurahaupo left 15:56 pharv left 15:58 pharv joined, kurahaupo joined 16:01 kurahaupo_ left
Zoffix The bot can be made to pastebin large numbers of simultaneous module uploads: github.com/zoffixznet/perl6-buggab...ds.pm6#L16 16:03
though until PERLANCAR starts using Perl 6, I don't think we need it :)
16:04 zakharyas left
Zoffix 1000 dists metacpan.org/author/PERLANCAR and it might be metacpan's limit, 'cause "CPAN directory" link says there 1469 dists.... 16:04
16:16 kurahaupo_ joined
jmerelo Sankey chart for perl6/doc issues. jj.github.io/TPF-Grant/html/sankey.html Data here github.com/JJ/TPF-Grant/blob/maste...graph.json just in case someone wants to play with that. 16:16
Columns on the right are "openers", progressively to the left "closers" 16:17
16:17 scimon left 16:18 FROGGS joined 16:19 kurahaupo left
jkramer Huh, interesting. Zooming in that chart seems to be reversed somehow. :) 16:20
jmerelo jkramer: there should be some way of doing that correctly...
16:20 kurahaupo_ left 16:21 Zoffix left
jmerelo jkramer: but I can't find it. I'm using networkD3, an R library, but you might want to work on the D3.js source directly 16:23
16:24 pharv_ joined 16:25 mr_ron left 16:26 cognominal joined 16:27 pharv left
jkramer jmerelo: Nah, I just tried to zoom in and found it curious :) 16:27
16:27 athenot left 16:28 athenot joined 16:29 adu joined 16:32 mcmillhj left 16:34 ChanServ sets mode: +o mst, mst sets mode: +b $a:tyil, tyil was kicked by mst (tyil))
[Coke] ? 16:35
mst on consideration, "words can't be inappropriate in and of themselves and it should be ok because I call my black friends the n- word and they don't mind" is not the sort of behaviour I'm interested in encouraging
16:36 mcmillhj joined
mst [Coke]: I just spent a couple hours trying to explain the concept of "appropriate behaviour" and got the usual "using the n- word isn't racist and it's uncalled for for somebody to call it racist" and "I'm not being rude, you just can't handle people telling the truth" responses 16:37
followed by, after I specifically said "don't pick fights and don't use *ist language and we'll be fine" being told I was just trying to be god emperor and he was putting me on /ignore 16:38
[Coke] ah, figured it was something not in channel. Yup, that sounds about right. 16:39
16:40 adu left 16:42 caasih joined 16:44 pharv_ left, pharv joined 16:45 mcmillhj left 16:48 mr_ron joined 16:52 cognominal left 17:02 robertle joined 17:04 cognominal joined 17:07 adu joined, imcsk8 left 17:13 natrys joined
buggable New CPAN upload: ANTLR4-Grammar-0.6.1.tar.gz by JGOFF cpan.metacpan.org/authors/id/J/JG/...6.1.tar.gz 17:14
17:19 dakkar left 17:23 test789 left 17:30 espadrine_ joined
jmerelo Again, Sankey diagram with openers and closers in the perl6/doc repo jj.github.io/TPF-Grant/html/sankey.html 17:33
17:33 geekosaur joined
jmerelo To the left are openers, to the right closers. Link from left to right indicates the one on the right closes issues created by the one on the left. 17:34
Of course, one closes one's own issues, and also open issues, so there's that.
17:35 cognominal left
mspo mst: /r/iamverysmart or /r/im14andthisisdeep ;) 17:37
17:41 mcmillhj joined 17:42 imcsk8 joined 17:46 adu left
[Coke] I'm all for neato graphs, but is there a purpose to this one in particular? 17:46
jmerelo [Coke]: I kinda wanted to see who was closing whom's issues. Also if there was some kind of hierarchy to the closing. 17:47
[Coke]: visualization helps you see the dynamics of a set of data. An overview of what's going on. 17:49
[Coke]: I want to have a general perspective on the site, the actors, and so on. You can't see that by checking the day-to-day grind of opening and closing of issues.
I'm not totally sure it will be useful for anyone else, but it's been useful for me. 17:50
17:51 Zoffix joined
Zoffix It lacks the time component though. I'm listed as the one who closed most issues, but I don't even remember closing more than a couple. It's probably skewed by something I did in 2016, before I started hacking on rakudo. 17:53
And same for many other people.
e.g. gfldex is not even a perl6 org member anymore. 17:54
jonathanstowe I've not seen in ages.
jmerelo Zoffix: I can filter by number of issues and per year, if needed. All scripts are written in perl6 (of course) github.com/JJ/TPF-Grant/tree/master/utils, with graphics represented using R 17:55
17:55 cognominal joined
jmerelo There are right now almost 2K issues/PRs. The same can be done per year, a moving windows of 500 issues, just tell me if it's useful for you, I can do it. 17:55
Zoffix ` 17:56
`my $names = ().SetHash;`... You can write stuff like `my %names is SetHash`
jmerelo Zoffix: OK. Of course, any PR will be appreciated. 17:57
But I can fix that right now.
... although it's got some problems, and this is working, so if it's working, why fix it... 17:59
Zoffix Yeah. `my $names = ().SetHash;` isn't wrong. I was just pointing out there's a way to get a `%foo` as a SetHash 18:00
jmerelo (You can issue that and whatever you find and I will work on that)
Zoffix: OK, thanks :-)
18:18 Zoffix left 18:19 simpleseeker joined 18:21 sauvin left 18:28 domidumont joined 18:40 simpleseeker left 18:41 domidumont left 18:53 grumblr joined, grumble left 18:54 grumblr is now known as grumble, woolfy joined 18:55 darutoko left 18:56 HaraldJoerg1 joined, HaraldJoerg left, jmerelo left 19:05 vcv joined 19:18 brrt joined 19:20 woolfy left
nine moritz: neither nqp, nor rakudo use timestamps in build ids any longer 19:23
Geth marketing: 6d8a17c563 | (Zoffix Znet)++ | LOGOs/Camelia/Alt-Variants/Camelia - Recoloured - Perfect Rainbow - Soft-Black.ai
Use CYMK format for blacks
 19:24
buggable New CPAN upload: P5study-0.0.2.tar.gz by ELIZABETH cpan.metacpan.org/authors/id/E/EL/...0.2.tar.gz
New CPAN upload: P5substr-0.0.2.tar.gz by ELIZABETH cpan.metacpan.org/authors/id/E/EL/...0.2.tar.gz
New CPAN upload: PDF-Class-0.1.5.tar.gz by WARRINGD cpan.metacpan.org/authors/id/W/WA/...1.5.tar.gz
19:26 pharv left 19:27 pharv joined
Geth marketing: 47705968b9 | (Zoffix Znet)++ | 6 files
Fix mismatch of blacks between logo and panel

  - Use updated logo file
  - Use print-quality PDF for digital version		 19:28
moritz nine++ 19:30
robertle nine: regarding the timestamps / build ids / dependencies: what's the story around dependencies on moar? I assume it is also safe to rebuild a moar from the same source, and previously built nqp, rakudo and precompiled fiels still work? 19:34
19:35 pharv left
lizmat robertle: it is my understanding that that works 19:36
and is the reason dev work on MoarVM is faster than work on the settings :-) 19:37
19:37 pharv joined
nine robertle: yes 19:37
19:39 pharv left, pharv joined
nine Note that the reproducibility or resilience against rebuilds also extends to packaged Perl 6 modules. 19:40
lizmat nine: the other day I noticed that making a change in src/Perl6/Metamodel/BOOTSTRAP.nqp needed a reconfigure to work 19:43
this didn't use to be the case afaik
timotimo bigger changes to moarvm are able to cause rakudo to crash because rakudo does compile "extops" that use moarvm datastructures 19:45
nine lizmat: could be that a few more places in the Makefile need to run gen-version.pl now as that's what hashes the rakudo sources. I'm actually surprised that no issues like that have come up until now. 19:46
lizmat not many people changes stuff in src/Perl6 :-)
nine I guess a dependency on $(PERL6_MOAR) in $(PERL6_M_MOAR): and $(PERL6_B_MOAR): would do the trick 19:47
lizmat that exceeds my rusty makefile foo :-) 19:48
19:48 aindilis` left 19:49 aindilis joined
nine or rather the other way round 19:51
lizmat cause and effect, always difficult :-) 19:52
nine $(PERL6_MOAR) needs to depend on the other two
19:52 FROGGS left
[Coke] mst: how does one go about becoming an op for a limited set of discussions on freenode? 19:53
buggable New CPAN upload: P5tie-0.0.8.tar.gz by ELIZABETH cpan.metacpan.org/authors/id/E/EL/...0.8.tar.gz 19:54
New CPAN upload: Pod-To-HTMLBody-0.0.1.tar.gz by JGOFF cpan.metacpan.org/authors/id/J/JG/...0.1.tar.gz
19:55 FROGGS|m left
buggable New CPAN upload: P5uc-0.0.2.tar.gz by ELIZABETH cpan.metacpan.org/authors/id/E/EL/...0.2.tar.gz 20:04
20:12 zachk joined 20:14 zachk left, zachk joined 20:16 dct joined 20:17 ChanServ sets mode: +o mst, mst sets mode: -b $a:tyil, ChanServ sets mode: +o mst 20:18 mst sets mode: -o mst
mst (he's now given his word to avoid the relevant behaviours rather than continuing to defend them; as such, I see no reason to leave him banned) 20:20
20:21 kst` joined, lumimies_ joined
Geth doc: dariusantia++ created pull request #1918:
Update exceptions.pod6		 20:23
20:23 Kaffe_ joined 20:24 profan_ joined, Gothmog__ joined, pmichaud_ joined, stux|RC-only joined
Geth doc: 5a2dedce2d | dariusantia++ (committed using GitHub Web editor) | doc/Language/exceptions.pod6
Update exceptions.pod6

Fixed small typo.		 20:26
synopsebot Link: doc.perl6.org/language/exceptions
Geth doc: a10f742e63 | (Zoffix Znet)++ (committed using GitHub Web editor) | doc/Language/exceptions.pod6
Merge pull request #1918 from dariusantia/patch-1

Update exceptions.pod6
20:27 tobs_ joined, CoderPuppy joined 20:28 CIAvash[m] left 20:29 tobs_ is now known as tobs, Gothmog__ is now known as Gothmog_, lumimies_ is now known as lumimies, imcsk8_ joined
samcv anyone have macos? 20:30
can someone grep -re __MAC_OS_X_VERSION_MAX_ALLOWED /usr/include
and tell me if it's there, in what file and what it may be set to?
assuming that's where macos keeps its include files
geekosaur that's going to lead to pain. it's a fancy macro that can be tweaked by xcode to do backward compatibility builds 20:31
20:31 undersightable6 left 20:32 CIAvash[m] joined, imcsk8 left, ilmari[m] joined, wamba left, evalable6 joined, coverable6 joined, Sgeo_ left 20:33 bisectable6 joined, bloatable6 joined, Sgeo_ joined 20:34 brrt left 20:36 comborico1611 joined
samcv geekosaur: do you have macos? 20:36
geekosaur not currently
but the feature test macro stuff is a zoo that xcode depends on
samcv or i need the header file that includes `getentropy` command 20:37
[Coke] samcv: it's in /usr/include/AvailabilityInternal.h, and mentioned in a comment in /usr/include/Availability.h 20:39
samcv is it set to anything? 20:40
i'm trying to find some define which sets the os x version
[Coke] (not defined in the former, just referenced)
oh, sorry. 20:41
yes. there's an ifndef, define pattern
samcv does it set it to something like 1010 or similar? 20:42
[Coke] #define __MAC_OS_X_VERSION_MAX_ALLOWED __MAC_10_13_4
but that's in one case. mostly it's checking like: #if __MAC_OS_X_VERSION_MAX_ALLOWED < __MAC_10_12_1
samcv do you have 10.13.4?
[Coke] aye 20:43
buggable New CPAN upload: P5ucfirst-0.0.3.tar.gz by ELIZABETH cpan.metacpan.org/authors/id/E/EL/...0.3.tar.gz 20:44
20:46 kurahaupo joined 20:52 simpleseeker joined
mr_ron m: gist.github.com/ronaldxs/c6fc45459...7bac8c84f3 20:53
camelia AFAICT none of the cases below should match if it needs to backtrack ...
------
(matched word only)
'a' backtrack on '=' need backtrack - no match: True
(matched word only)
'a=b' backtrack on '=' need ba…
buggable New CPAN upload: Scalar-Util-0.0.3.tar.gz by ELIZABETH cpan.metacpan.org/authors/id/E/EL/...0.3.tar.gz 20:54
20:59 natrys left 21:00 simpleseeker left
mr_ron m: gist.github.com/ronaldxs/c6fc45459...7bac8c84f3 21:00
camelia These should not backtrack and match but do:
(matched word only)
True
after first word
True


AFAICT none of the cases below should match if it needs to backtrack ...
------
(matched word only)
'a' backtrack on '=' …
mr_ron I think the gist is a new backtracking bug similar to RT #130117 (resolved) and RT #132219 (but different). Anyone willing to take a look and confirm? 21:02
synopsebot RT#130117 [resolved]: rt.perl.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=130117 [TESTNEEDED] [REGEX] Sequential alternation `||` does not respect `:ratchet`
RT#132219 [new]: rt.perl.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=132219 [@LARRY] [REGEX] non-ratchet right-hand branch of `||` causes backtracking into the alternation
21:02 mcmillhj left, mcmillhj joined 21:03 simpleseeker joined
buggable New CPAN upload: Sub-Name-0.0.5.tar.gz by ELIZABETH cpan.metacpan.org/authors/id/E/EL/...0.5.tar.gz 21:04
New CPAN upload: Sub-Util-0.0.2.tar.gz by ELIZABETH cpan.metacpan.org/authors/id/E/EL/...0.2.tar.gz
21:05 vcv left 21:06 dct left 21:08 mcmillhj left
ufobat_ why does this work in a Actions class for a Grammar "make (foo => 1, bar => 2).Hash;" but " make (foo => 1, bar => 2)"; says Odd number of elements found where hash initializer expected: Only saw: $(:foo(1), :bar(2)) 21:10
21:11 simpleseeker left
lizmat ufobat_: do you want to make a hash? 21:12
mr_ron m: my token param-x { <[ab]>+ || [ \w+ '=' \w+ ] }; say so 'a=b' ~~ /<param-x>/; # backtracks - think it should not
camelia True
mr_ron m: my token param-y { [ \w+ '=' \w+ ] || <[ab]>+ }; say so 'a' ~~ /<param-y>/; # backtracks - think it should not
camelia True
lizmat ufobat_: looks to me you're trying to make a List with 2 Pairs ? 21:13
21:13 webstrand left 21:14 mcmillhj joined
buggable New CPAN upload: Sys-Hostname-0.0.4.tar.gz by ELIZABETH cpan.metacpan.org/authors/id/E/EL/...0.4.tar.gz 21:14
New CPAN upload: Tie-Array-0.0.3.tar.gz by ELIZABETH cpan.metacpan.org/authors/id/E/EL/...0.3.tar.gz
New CPAN upload: Tie-Hash-0.0.3.tar.gz by ELIZABETH cpan.metacpan.org/authors/id/E/EL/...0.3.tar.gz
New CPAN upload: Tie-StdArray-0.0.2.tar.gz by ELIZABETH cpan.metacpan.org/authors/id/E/EL/...0.2.tar.gz
21:15 webstrand joined
ufobat_ lizmat, yes i am looking for a Hash 21:16
i assumed a list of pairs to be a hash, that's probably wrong
21:16 simpleseeker joined 21:17 dct joined
lizmat Perl6 doesn't auto-flatten a list of Pairs into a Hash 21:18
ufobat_ i need to use { } instead of ( ), to much perl5 in my head
lizmat m: dd (a => 42, b => 666 )
camelia (:a(42), :b(666))
lizmat m: dd %(a => 42, b => 666 )
camelia Hash % = {:a(42), :b(666)}
lizmat well, we're thinking of discouraging { }
perhaps better future proof it with %( ) 21:19
ufobat_ in favor of %( )
lizmat prefix a %
21:19 simpleseeker left
lizmat yup 21:19
but if you want to use { }, then please do :-)
if that makes you feel more at home :-)
21:19 mcmillhj left
ufobat_ it makes me feel like there is a HashRef ;-) 21:20
21:20 sena_kun left
lizmat well, at some level, that would be true :-) 21:20
ufobat_ why are you thinking of discouranging { }, because i could be a code-block-thinky?
lizmat well, the heuristics can be confusing 21:21
m: dd { }
camelia Hash % = {}
lizmat m: dd { }
camelia Hash % = {}
lizmat m: dd { "a" }
camelia -> ;; $_? is raw { #`(Block|68673784) ... }
ufobat_ m: dd { "a", "b" }
camelia -> ;; $_? is raw { #`(Block|66718584) ... }
ufobat_ m: dd { "a" => "b" }
camelia Hash % = {:a("b")}
ufobat_ yeah
lizmat m: dd { ("a", "b") } 21:22
camelia -> ;; $_? is raw { #`(Block|80582456) ... }
ufobat_ i think i'd better get used to %()
lizmat m: dd { ("a" => "b") }
camelia -> ;; $_? is raw { #`(Block|83568840) ... }
21:22 simpleseeker joined
lizmat yeah, that seems to be the evolving consensus :-) 21:22
ufobat_ so good night :-)
lizmat good night!
lizmat also calls it a night 21:23
samcv [Coke]: i seem to have succeded in getting that variable to work 21:24
buggable New CPAN upload: Tie-StdHash-0.0.3.tar.gz by ELIZABETH cpan.metacpan.org/authors/id/E/EL/...0.3.tar.gz
21:25 simpleseeker left
[Coke] samcv: woot? 21:25
let me know if you need me to test something, though it will take me some time to get back to it
samcv __MAC_OS_X_VERSION_MAX_ALLOWED
i'm guessing it's something like __MAC_OS_X_VERSION_MAX_ALLOWED = 101200 10.12.0 if you have that 21:26
from what i see online i think that's right
21:26 mcmillhj joined
mr_ron samcv: you worked on the RTs. Do you have a moment to look at my claim on an alternation backtracking bug? (just above) 21:28
samcv mr_ron: yeah
21:29 simpleseeker joined 21:31 simpleseeker left 21:32 mcmillhj left, simpleseeker joined 21:35 rindolf left, simpleseeker left 21:38 rindolf joined 21:42 dct left 21:46 simpleseeker joined, mcmillhj joined
hoelzro yoleaux: .tell jmerelo I just had a look - what would you like me to do with regards to that? 21:46
yoleaux 06:50Z <jmerelo> hoelzro: about this github.com/perl6/ecosystem/issues/390
21:48 simpleseeker left
samcv github.com/github/linguist/pull/33...-380467950 this finally got merged! 21:48
adding pod6 type to github 21:49
21:51 mcmillhj left 21:53 natrys joined 22:00 mcmillhj joined 22:01 HaraldJoerg1 left 22:05 mcmillhj left 22:07 pmurias left, benjikun left 22:11 dct joined 22:15 mcmillhj joined 22:16 ChoHag joined 22:19 mcmillhj left 22:21 dct left 22:24 natrys left 22:37 char_var[buffer] joined 22:38 simpleseeker joined 22:39 woolfy joined 22:40 zachk left 22:45 dct joined 22:47 zachk joined, zachk left, zachk joined 22:48 mcmillhj joined 22:53 mcmillhj left 23:02 simpleseeker left 23:04 mcmillhj joined 23:05 dct left, eveo joined, eveo is now known as Zoffix 23:06 Zoffix left, Zoffix joined 23:09 mcmillhj left 23:13 simpleseeker joined
Zoffix I don't get why indexing this match object fails: gist.github.com/zoffixznet/be5d21a...ae6325d85f I had $el<statement>, it tells me "Cannot find method 'dump' on object of type NQPArray"; I changed it to $el[0], it tells me "Cannot find method 'dump' on object of type NQPMu".. How do I go down into it to get `longname` ? 23:14
23:15 simpleseeker left 23:17 simpleseeker joined 23:18 rindolf left 23:19 simpleseeker left
timotimo yo Zoffix 23:20
you still dealing with that?
i can give you an impromptu crash-course in moar-remote 23:21
Zoffix What's that?
timotimo it lets you explore deep into the depths of a given object 23:22
interactively
it's the new remote debugging thing
23:22 simpleseeker joined
Zoffix Where do I get it from? 23:23
23:23 mcmillhj joined
mr_ron my token param-x { <[ab]>+ || [ \w+ '=' \w+ ] }; say so 'a=b' ~~ /<param-x>/; # backtracks - think it should not 23:24
evalable6 True
mr_ron one more try - anyone
timotimo one part is zef install App::MoarVM::Debug
Zoffix Does it backtrack tho? It matches "a", tries a/b, fails, goes to the second one 23:25
m: my token param-x { <[ab]>+ || [ \w+ '=' \w+ ] }; say so 'ab=b' ~~ /<param-x>/;
camelia True
Zoffix ok
timotimo another is to have a perl6-debugserver-m (or similar) that looks just like perl6-m inside, but after moar it has --debug-port=9999 --debug-suspend (or any port you'd like)
23:26 simpleseeker left
Zoffix eco: App::MoarVM::Debug 23:26
buggable Zoffix, App::MoarVM::Debug 'A command line interface application for debugging Perl 6 and NQP code using the MoarVM remote debugger.': github.com/edumentab/p6-app-moarvm-debug
mr_ron Zoffix - don't understand, doesn't it fail trying to match '=' 23:27
then backtrack to next alternative
timotimo you'd then run your code with perl6-debugserver-m and call moar-remote 9999
Zoffix mr_ron: no idea.
23:27 mcmillhj left
timotimo if you'd like i can continue in #perl6-dev 23:28
Zoffix Why? Isn't the debug thing a public thing for all users?
timotimo sure
just don't want to spam in between other conversations
Zoffix It's IRC :) 23:29
mr_ron my token param-x {^ [ <[ab]>+ || [ \w+ '=' \w+ ] ] $ }; say so 'a=b' ~~ /<param-x>/; # backtracks - think it should not
evalable6 False
timotimo true that
Zoffix And there are no docs in the module
timotimo yup!
haven't had the time to properly doc yet
23:29 simpleseeker joined
mr_ron Now I understand ... oops 23:30
23:31 simpleseeker left
Zoffix hm 23:32
timotimo: looks like it's stuck at "===> Searching for: App::MoarVM::Debug"
timotimo oh? 23:33
Zoffix (it might be my mods to rakudo or Z-Script)
timotimo you can clone them from git, too, they live under github.com/edument 23:34
Zoffix I've no idea how to install a module to my dev rakudo without Z-Script :/
mr_ron m: my token param-y { ^ [ [ \w+ {say 'matched first word'} '=' \w+ ] || <[ab]>+ ] $ }; say so 'a' ~~ /<param-y>/; # backtracks - think it should not 23:35
camelia matched first word
True
Zoffix timotimo: so what's next after installing and doing the debug port and stuff?
23:35 simpleseeker joined
timotimo ah, yes 23:35
it'll give you a very simple shell
mr_ron Zoffix - could you please take a look at that last example?
timotimo you'll want to set a breakpoint for your debug code
it'll want to look like "breakpoint "path-to-your-module-as-moarvm-sees-it" 1234 1 1 23:36
23:36 simpleseeker left
timotimo the filename is what moar would also show inside backtraces, so if it's in the setting it'd have the extra syntax we have for that 23:36
Zoffix mr_ron: I don't know much about this stuff, but I think "backtracking" needs to actually go back like at least one char. Above \w+ matches, tries `=`, fails, then goes to match `a` in the alternative and succeeds. At no point it goes backwards 23:37
m: my token param-y { ^ [ [ \w+ {say 'matched first word'} '=' \w+ ] || <[ab]>+ ] $ }; say so 'ab' ~~ /<param-y>/;
camelia matched first word
True
Zoffix mr_ron: ^ tho then I'd expect this to fail.
timotimo also, i recommend "assume thread 1" so you can ignore passing the thread argument to commands that want it
Zoffix I don't know if that's a bug or I don't understand it.
timotimo: does it work in rakudo itself? This is from src/Perl6/World.nqp 23:38
23:38 simpleseeker joined
timotimo one second 23:38
23:38 simpleseeker left
Zoffix ===> Install [FAIL] for App::MoarVM::Debug:ver<0.0.1>: ===SORRY!=== 23:38
Missing serialize REPR function for REPR VMException (BOOTException)
timotimo :o
Zoffix :)
timotimo oh, maybe you'll need to also --/test
Zoffix Yeah, that's my default. It failed during install stage, not test stage 23:39
timotimo src/Perl6/World.nqp can be passed as the filename verbatim (in quotes)
23:39 pharv left
timotimo damn :( 23:39
23:39 pharv joined
Zoffix Oh, I guess I can clone it and do -Ilib without installing anything. 23:39
timotimo aye
it has the one dependency
well, and Data::MessagePack
23:41 mcmillhj joined
mr_ron Zoffix: Is your example to backtracking at the '='? Who might I ask? 23:41
timotimo the next step will be to "resume", which will actually start the script (we asked it to not start with the --debug-suspend option)
Zoffix mr_ron: I guess moritz or TimToady
mr_ron thanks
23:45 mcmillhj left
Zoffix timotimo: "1234 1 1" what are those numbers? 23:46
for breakpoint
timotimo pay no mind to the 1s after the curtain
1234 would be the line number you're interested in
23:47 simpleseeker joined
Zoffix Ok, it gave me this: gist.github.com/zoffixznet/43ab906...baa2ed0da9 23:48
timotimo beautiful, isn't it
Zoffix Yeah, but how do I figure out how to navigate my thing to get to `<longname>`? :)
timotimo now we'll want to grab us some lexicals
first magic command is "ctxhandle 0", which gives you a handle on the frame with number 0 23:49
(if you didn't "assume thread 1" you'll have to put a 1 before the 0, though)
it'll just give you a number, that's the handle you can pass to the "lexicals" command 23:50
Zoffix "Lexicals of handle 215: empty."
I ran some commands before tho... like `all lexicals` and stuff
timotimo ah, yeah
so with all lexicals, did you see lexicals for frame number 0?
worst case the optimizer has gone and turned all the lexicals into locals and ruined all our fun 23:51
but often you can find the parameters as lexicals further up the stack
23:51 simpleseeker left
timotimo anyway, once you have an object you're interested in, the command "metadata" will tell you whether it can has positionals, associatives, or attributes 23:52
Zoffix :o
timotimo and those three are also commands that can introspect into these objects
giving you handles again
the cycle repeats
Zoffix adds some more variables and recompiles 23:53
timotimo you can also --optimize=off when compiling that particular file
gotta go take care of the cat's toilet :) 23:54
Zoffix I don't know how to do that :) I'm a spoiled Z-Script user. All I know how to do is type "z" to recompile :P
(I think it's in Makefile; that's what I edit when running wtf.perl6.party stuff) 23:55
timotimo i tend to just copy-paste the command it outputs and re-run with changes, but makefile should work, too 23:59

Powered by Cro and the Raku® Programming Language.

Please report any issues / comments / feature requests as an issue on App::Raku::Log.

Thank you!