»ö« Welcome to Perl 6! | perl6.org/ | evalbot usage: 'p6: say 3;' or rakudo:, or /msg camelia p6: ... | irclog: irc.perl6.org or colabti.org/irclogger/irclogger_logs/perl6 | UTF-8 is our friend! 🦋
Set by Zoffix on 25 May 2018.
buggable 🎺🎺🎺 It's time for the monthly Accidental /win Lottery 😍😍😍 We have 2 ballots submitted by 2 users! DRUM ROLL PLEASE!... 00:00
And the winning number is 10! Congratulations to samcv, nine! You win a roll of duck tape!
samcv yay. i've never won before
do i have to give a speech
El_Che sound good to me 00:01
:)
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raschipi I said in the survey I had 2018.05 but I forgot I just had upgraded to 2018.06 00:07
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benjikun raschipi: That's okay 00:08
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Israel ? 00:11
Anybody here?
thowe hi
I'm here, but I'm no help.
Israel hey
Ok, lol
AlexDaniel I'm here, I'm sometimes help :)
thowe Most Perl people are super experts at everything... I'm just a hobbiest. 00:12
Israel I need t know more about Perl6, if anyone can help
I am a hobbiest too
thowe Sure!
I'll try.
Israel Ok
AlexDaniel samcv: but who won? you or nine? :) 00:14
thowe The REPL makes things fun and helps with the learning.
raschipi Just stick around and listen and you'll bea 'super expert' in no time.
Israel okay 00:15
where i can learn more about this language? 00:16
thowe Well, do you like books or online resources or both?
raschipi There's a couple of books, introductory texts online...
thowe I have a book called "Perl 6 Fundamentals" which I have liked so far. 00:17
Israel I have many books of Perl, but Perl6...
"Perl 6 Fundamentals" - expensive?
thowe Also, a new book about learning Perl6 is about to come out from O'Reilly
I'm not sure, I seem to recall getting it during a price reduction.
Israel, What country are you in? 00:18
raschipi If you know Perl 5, you might want to have a look here: docs.perl6.org/language/5to6-nutshell
Israel Brazil 00:19
Brazilian Federal Republic***
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Israel raschipi - thanks 00:20
thowe Looks like the paperback is about $20 US from Amazon. I'm not sure how that translates to Brazilian currency.
raschipi Seja bem vindo, Israel
Israel I can read in English, and $20 is about 60 brazilian coins 00:21
So it's fine
thowe Coins? That's what it is called? 00:22
AlexDaniel Israel: fwiw there are many short introductions to perl 6, like learnxinyminutes.com/docs/perl6/
raschipi Israel: importação de livros é isento de imposto, se te cobrarem, reclame.
Israel raschipi: I've already released some books from the USA, never charged taxes 00:23
thowe - We call brazilian Real
raschipi Tax over "I'm not sure what this is" is 100%, so they sometimes tax books when they shouldn't. You need to complain to get the money back.
thowe Ah, OK
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Israel Ok 00:24
thowe this is a free download: greenteapress.com/wp/think-perl-6/ 00:25
Israel Thanks for all guys, realy helped me
raschipi Stick around
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Israel I will be 00:26
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raschipi He didn't stick around. 01:09
thowe Ah well. 01:10
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benjikun raschipi: Hopefully he returns 01:37
buggable New CPAN upload: IP-Random-0.0.8.tar.gz by JMASLAK modules.perl6.org/dist/IP::Random:cpan:JMASLAK 01:44
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Zoffix .tell MasterDuke did some digging into the `multi z(42)` thing. Looks like the perf rewrite works fine in `sub`s, but in `multi`es, stuff becomes 10x slower and I think just drowns out the improvement. Filed as R#2002 03:22
yoleaux Zoffix: I'll pass your message to MasterDuke.
30 Jun 2018 23:16Z <benjikun> Zoffix: Sorry, was asleep. Yeah this round's survey is complete, I was going to create charts for each question, but I think the google form results will do fine for now.
Zoffix (I mean, 10x slower for some reason, not because of my opt. The issue existed before my stuff) 03:24
even before The Christmas 03:26
R#2002 03:29
hack is ded again
AlexDaniel but at least RT is back up! 03:33
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Zoffix I rather have hack :P 03:33
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Zoffix R#2002 03:33
synopsebot R#2002 [open]: github.com/rakudo/rakudo/issues/2002 [perf] `where` in single `multi` vs. `sub` is 10x slower
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AlexDaniel RT#125974 RT#128693 RT#132219 03:35
synopsebot RT#125974 [new]: rt.perl.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=125974 [PERF] Closures in regex cost a lot of CPU cycles.
RT#128693 [new]: rt.perl.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=128693 [PERF] Regex optimizer on \s+$ is "dumb as bricks"
RT#132219 [new]: rt.perl.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=132219 [@LARRY] [REGEX] non-ratchet right-hand branch of `||` causes backtracking into the alternation
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raschipi Zoffix RT is just bad news anyway. 03:47
AlexDaniel ? 03:52
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Tison \o 04:37
I was ask that what's new 6.d would bring to, and I introduced github.com/perl6/6.d-prep, but think that it would be better if there is a brief talk/essay to announce 6.d 04:40
my folks are excited to hear that 6.d will be released in Nov. :) 04:41
raschipi Will it?
geekosaur I thought that hadn;t been decided yet
raschipi I didn't hear anything about it either. 04:43
Tison: but don't worry, everyone will hear extensively about 6.d way before it comes out. 04:46
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Zoffix Tison: there aren't yet any changelog notes for 6.d and the majority of the spec changes still need to be reviewed. Pointing people to 6.d-prep isn't a good idea: that's a repo for core devs and will just confuse users. The vast majority of 6.d stuff is already available in 6.c, so it's not like we're keeping some secret hidden feature under the covers. The release will just make all these features officially 04:57
part of the language and subject to much stronger compatibility support
and will put in use the features that currently requre `use v6.d.PREVIEW` 04:59
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Geth doc: f67de5778e | (JJ Merelo)++ | CONTRIBUTING.md
Some guidelines about introducing new features closes #2133
 07:10
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Geth doc/master: 5 commits pushed by (JJ Merelo)++ 09:48
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jmerelo More stuff from the survey: Community score vs. documentation score github.com/perl6/p6survey/blob/mas...munity.png 11:34
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jmerelo In general, scores are lower for doc than community, but those giving high score to community, in general, give a good score to documentation. 11:37
I'm kinda worried, however, by those giving 9 or 10 to the community and failing documentation. 11:38
Geth doc: cec362ec4f | (Tom Browder)++ (committed using GitHub Web editor) | doc/Language/exceptions.pod6
wrap long lines, fix typo
synopsebot Link: doc.perl6.org/language/exceptions
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tbrowder_ jmerelo: maybe a new survey just on documentation? 11:41
jmerelo This is interesting raw.githubusercontent.com/perl6/p6...oxplot.png 11:44
Most people giving a low score to documentation, _also_ give a low score to the community
lizmat judging from reddit comments, that is to be expected :-(
jmerelo tbrowder_: I have more than enough analyzing data in this survey. I don't want people to get tired of surveys...
lizmat: yep. Still, ~ 7 is kind of low. There's room for improvement. 11:46
tbrowder_ i for one would like to see the language part organized into several groupings. the alphabetical order is somtimes unhelpful.
jmerelo tbrowder_: It's sometimes difficult to navigate. But the problem is that major changes like that one simply don't happen. 11:47
tbrowder_: but if you open an issue I'll be giving it some attention. It's a good suggestion.
tbrowder_ if/when another survey is done, maybe ask for specifics if the choice rating is below X. 11:48
jmerelo tbrowder_: I mean, not more than other issues, but it's always good to have those opinions just in case some rearrangement happens.
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tbrowder_ even though i would like to see some categories in the lnguage docs, i’m not sure what they should be, and getting consensus might be difficult. 12:08
i haven’t looked at htmlify since your work started, but i imagine creating categories might be a little easier now, thanks to your efforts. 12:10
sacomo hi all 12:15
pmurias sacomo: hi 12:16
sacomo hello
is there a way to see all of the modules that are available as symbol references from inside a module? for example, can we print a list of modules (JSON::Fast, Foo, Bar, Something::Special) that are either available on the system, or via lib? 12:19
lizmat that would be $*REPO introspection, I guess
ugexe or nine would probably know 12:20
Repository handling is sadly underdocumented atm
sacomo lizmat: thanks, I will mess around with $*REPO 12:22
tbrowder_ speaking of searching modules, any way to search by author on our modules page? 12:23
El_Che modules.perl6.org/search/?q=author...22JNTHN%22 12:25
modules.perl6.org/search/?q=author:"JNTHN" 12:26
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mscha How can I declare a nested integer hash, i.e. %foo{42}{21} == 63? 12:48
m: my %foo{Int}; %foo{42} //= my %{Int}; %foo{42}{21} = 63; dd %foo; # This doesn't work, obviously
camelia Hash[Any,Int] %foo = (my Any %{Int} = 42 => $(my Any %{Int} = 21 => 63))
mscha m: my %foo{Int}; %foo{42} //= my Int %{Int}; %foo{42}{21} = 63; dd %foo; # This is a workaround, but annoying. 12:49
camelia Hash[Any,Int] %foo = (my Any %{Int} = 42 => $(my Int %{Int} = 21 => 63))
mscha Ignore my first "this doesn't work"...
m: my %foo{Int}; %foo{42}{21} = 63; dd %foo; # This doesn't work, obviously
camelia Hash[Any,Int] %foo = (my Any %{Int} = 42 => ${"21" => 63})
El_Che mscha: I most forgo strong typing with nested stuff 12:55
mscha: I am under the impressiong typing is rather flat on perl6, but I am sure people will correct me if wrong
lizmat mscha: you're asking a Hash to take a Hash *and* an Int as values ? 12:56
El_Che Nesting stuff is in my view something typical of dynamic non-strongly type languages 12:59
in other languages you'd use Objects or Structs to keep that kind of data 13:00
imho
Geth doc: tbrowder self-assigned add caption info to pod tables discussion github.com/perl6/doc/issues/2134
3ea8e5fa94 | (Tom Browder)++ (committed using GitHub Web editor) | doc/Language/tables.pod6
 13:05
mscha lizmat: I want a hash of hashes of ints. 13:08
El_Che: but if I forgo strong typing, Rakudo changes my Ints to Strs. Not a disaster with Ints, but for instance with Rats that can cause bugs. 13:10
El_Che you can type the values, no?
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mscha El_Che: But how do I type the values of the main hash as Int %{Int}? 13:11
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Bowlslaw hello 13:11
good morning everyone 13:12
mscha m: my Int %{Int} %foo{Int}; # doesn't work
camelia 5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>
Undeclared routine:
foo used at line 1
Bowlslaw You guys have a totalitarian moderator, Mithaldu, on r/perl who bans and mutes people for engaging in harmless discussions in which he disagrees, over joke posts 13:14
El_Che mscha: I see 13:15
m: my Hash[Int] %h; my %h2 = foo => 2; %h<foo> = %h2
camelia Type check failed in assignment to %h; expected Hash[Int] but got Hash (${:foo(2)})
in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1
lizmat Bowlslaw: I think this is the wrong place to complain about that, taking it up with the other moderators on r/perl would be better, I think 13:16
Bowlslaw That's impossible. 13:17
I tried, but I don't know where else to go.
lizmat you could also try #perl on irc.perl.org 13:19
Bowlslaw When I tried to appeal, I literally said, "I don't think I deserve to be banned explanation?" and he said, "you are banned and muted now"
alrighty...thanks. 13:20
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pmurias Bowlslaw: this is a Perl 6 channel so if anything you should be complaining about r/perl6 here ;) 13:21
El_Che pmurias: nothing is as simple as it looks :)
Bowlslaw I Know, but r/perl is advertised as both Perl 5 and Perl 6 13:23
"The Perl Programming Language, including both Perl 5 and Perl 6."
El_Che Bowlslaw: it is 13:24
let's see if their are known admins
lizmat Bowlslaw: I assume it's over this? www.reddit.com/r/perl/comments/8uh...s_in_perl/ 13:26
www.reddit.com/user/bowlslaw doesn't read too positive :-( 13:27
Bowlslaw yep 13:28
My history is irrelevant
what IS relevant is the current post there
which is not even close to being ban worthy with the only explanation being, "keep your right-wing stuff elsewhere" or whatever
hahainternet your history surely isn't irrelevant 13:30
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Bowlslaw In the context of this curernt situation, it is entirely irrelevant, unless yo uare simply looking for an excuse to ban someone. 13:32
hahainternet if your history provides that 'excuse', then it isn't irrelevant
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lizmat Bowlslaw: again, I don't this is the place for this discussion, as I think very few people on this channel can actually do something about the situation 13:33
Bowlslaw alright
hahainternet: and no, that is called an "ad hominem", something you should be too smart to fall for
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lizmat *sigh* 13:33
hahainternet why do people who are always offensive never understand what "ad hominem" means
a mystery to me 13:34
pmurias Bowlslaw: an ad hominem is a valid argument when the person who is being attacked is the subject of the argument 13:37
hahainternet pmurias: he left lol, but even then his history cannot possibly be an ad hominem, it would be like a person on trial insisting the judge should not look at his criminal record before sentencing him 13:45
synopsebot Link: doc.perl6.org/language/tables
El_Che duscussing meme is a can of worms 13:49
as is reddit, it seems
pmurias tries to keep his technical activities and his trolling/internet vitriol separate 13:50
El_Che pmurias: does pmurias have an online evil twin? :) 13:52
I think the only time I posted something on reddit was in a discussion started by lizmat
Geth doc: 926e0f2834 | (Tom Browder)++ (committed using GitHub Web editor) | doc/Language/tables.pod6
add info on adding a table caption
 13:53
synopsebot Link: doc.perl6.org/language/tables
El_Che haven't connected since then
reddit looks too much like online comments on newspapers 13:54
lizmat stmuk: pl6anet.org seems irresponsive 13:56
*unresponsive 13:57
Geth doc: 1df6d75505 | (Tom Browder)++ (committed using GitHub Web editor) | doc/Language/tables.pod6
warn about deprecated use of config hash for captions
 14:05
synopsebot Link: doc.perl6.org/language/tables
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Geth doc: 64cb6677a4 | (Sam S)++ (committed using GitHub Web editor) | doc/Type/Hash.pod6
fix typo

English is not French... :P		 14:11
synopsebot Link: doc.perl6.org/type/Hash
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Xliff \o 14:24
Happy Sunday!
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Bowlslaw "No such method 'prase' for invocant of type 'DOM::Tiny'" praise the DOM ! 14:48
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Xliff BowlSlaw: Can you bug that? 15:00
Or is that in your code? /o\
Is there a beautify for gist output anywhere? 15:07
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tbrowder_ tyil: you around? 15:18
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tyil tbrowder_: hi 15:21
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tbrowder_ tyil: hi. have you had a chance to try the =input/=output pod blocks yet? 15:31
tyil tbrowder_: I have not, I'll do it right away 15:35
tbrowder_: in the test program, the IO blocks are rendering just like code blocks now (with regards to newlines and whitespace) 15:37
with This is Rakudo version 2018.06-32-g0990945dc built on MoarVM version 2018.06-34-g411f73fdc
and if I'm not mistaken, this month gets a new star release as well, so it's going to be in my default perl6 as well 15:38
thanks for the fix, tbrowder_ :>
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tbrowder_ you’re welcome—glad i could help, and thanks for finding the problem! 15:42
smls I wrote a Perl 6 module: github.com/smls/perl6-LinkedHash 15:44
Feedback welcome, especially about the stuff in the TODO section of the readme.
tbrowder_ smls: that sounds great! is it in cpan yet? 15:47
lizmat smls: why %!entries{$key}:exists; in EXISTS-KEY, why not just %!entries.EXISTS-KEY($key) ?
smls tbrowder_: Not yet.
lizmat: Heh, good point. 15:48
lizmat same for DELETE-KEY
saves you 1 level of indirection (at least)
Xliff Does anyone know the best way to add a cookie to the Cro::HTTP::Client::CookieJar class? 15:57
If not, who can I ask?
Actually. That should read "add a cookie to an instance of Cro::HTTP::Client::CookieJar" 15:58
sena_kun Xliff, jnthn or me. Let's see if I can help you...
Xliff sena_kun!! ^^
How goes?
sena_kun: Here's the tricky part... I can add from a response object, but I need a Cro::Uri. However I don't know how I would do that properly. I could specify the actual root dir of the server, but that would require building. 15:59
ALSO! I have a related question to ask when you have a spare minute.
sena_kun Xliff, I don't see obvious way to do that right now, yet I believe you can open an issue and we'll work on it. 16:00
Xliff Would you accept a PR? :)
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Xliff BTW-- I did fix a minor issue. 16:00
Oh! Yeah, someone merged. 16:01
sena_kun Design-wise things go into jnthn's field I believe, but you can always send a PR and it will be considered.
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sena_kun It was me(who merged it), thanks again for your contribution. :) 16:01
Xliff yw! 16:02
sena_kun As for $uri needed, let's see... 16:03
Xliff So yea, the related question was asking about a way to add a cookie directly to the cookie jar, so that's covered.
lizmat Xliff: there's also a #cro channel
Xliff Oh! My bad! 16:04
lizmat but I guess sena_kun would have helped you there as well :-)
Xliff Thanks, liz
lizmat fwiw, I wasn't saying that it was wrong to ask it here, but simply point out that there is a channel with better signal/noise ratio wrt to Cro questions :-) 16:05
Xliff lizmat++ # Message received as intended. ;) 16:06
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Xliff sena_kun: I know you will need to run this by jnthn, so I will open an issue, but would it be a bad thing to just allow an add-cookie method to Cro::HTTP::Client::CookieJar? 16:21
lizmat Xliff: is there a way to create a cookie jar separately ? 16:25
sena_kun Xliff, well, the thing is CookieJar operates on CookieState rather than raw Cookie objects, so you need to either go with a cumbersome add method(not so bad) or expose CookieState(arguably worse). Personally, I don't see anything _too bad_ with that, but yet again, it is up to jnthn as I may miss something. 16:28
Xliff sena_kun: Yeah. I'm looking at it now. I would basically put a new cookie in a CookieState and add it to the jar. 16:30
I've submitted the issue for discussion.
sena_kun Xliff++ 16:31
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lizmat afk& 16:33
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stmuk lizmat: can't see a problem now. Maybe a glitch in the matrix? 16:38
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jmerelo o/ 16:39
Geth doc: 7f00a2c76f | (JJ Merelo)++ | doc/Language/modules-core.pod6
Eliminates the sentence about `$*REPO`

Refs #502		 16:51
synopsebot Link: doc.perl6.org/language/modules-core
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Geth doc: 9fd2e7767f | (JJ Merelo)++ | doc/Language/glossary.pod6
Adds definition of repository in Rakudo/Perl 6 context

This is ripped of off @jnhtn's
  github.com/rakudo/rakudo/blob/mast...agement.md
with the idea of contributing towards #502 (TTBOMK, of course).		 17:17
synopsebot Link: doc.perl6.org/language/glossary
doc: fc24fafac0 | (JJ Merelo)++ | doc/Language/glossary.pod6
Adds compilation unit/compunit to the glossary

It was missing so far, with compunit pointing to the definition of several compilation units. Once again, @jnthn document is essential, and definition sentence basically copypasted from there. Refs #502.
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El_Che jmerelo: whut? 17:40
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AlexDaniel jmerelo: are you sure abou $?… vs $*… ? These are different 17:41
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jmerelo AlexDaniel: you mean the Rakudo pull request? 17:42
AlexDaniel yea
jmerelo m: say $?REPO;
camelia 5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>
Variable '$?REPO' is not declared
at <tmp>:1
------> 3say 7⏏5$?REPO;
jmerelo m: say $*REPO;
camelia inst#/home/camelia/.perl6
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jmerelo m: use lib </usr/lib>; say $?REPO; 17:43
camelia 5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>
Variable '$?REPO' is not declared
at <tmp>:1
------> 3use lib </usr/lib>; say 7⏏5$?REPO;
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jmerelo El_Che: reacting to this github.com/perl6/doc/issues/502#is...-401607520 17:45
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AlexDaniel jmerelo: ah, maybe you're right 17:47
jmerelo AlexDaniel: I haven't seen it documented, or anywhere else in the Rakudo repo. But I can eliminate that if it's not true.
AlexDaniel: that document is old, and I seem to remember there was a big change $? -> $*. But please double check in case you're not sure. 17:48
AlexDaniel jmerelo: Well, I don't know. There's a bunch of $?… stuff that is not implemented, like RT#124624
synopsebot RT#124624 [open]: rt.perl.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=124624 $?KERNEL, $?DISTRO, $?VM megaticket
AlexDaniel jmerelo: IIRC these did not become $*, I think both forms were intended to exist 17:49
jmerelo AlexDaniel: I'll just leave it be. I think I can edit that. Let me check.
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El_Che jmerelo: I was reacting to Spain loosing, but the ticket is harsh 17:53
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jmerelo El_Che: it really is. And the problem is that it's not even remotely constructive. But the gist of it is it's wrong, it's my fault, and I've got to fix it. So back to work. 17:54
El_Che jmerelo: I would try not to get demotivated by it 17:55
jmerelo El_Che: about Spain: it was surprising it even proceeded out of the group phase. At the beginning it was the defense failing, now it's the forwards failing. So it was nice while it lasted
El_Che: not really. Quite the contrary. I'm getting used to them by now. 17:56
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El_Che jmerelo: I only say 1 match where Spain played (against Marocco) and I wasn't impressed 17:56
jmerelo: callus around your heart is not ideal eiter 17:57
jmerelo El_Che: none of them was even remotely good. I'll support Mexico now, I guess :-)
El_Che jmerelo: and .be :)
jmerelo El_Che: OK, I'll support them too. 17:58
El_Che well, it's the part that stayed loyal to Spain until the end 17:59
history must account for something :)
jmerelo El_Che: you've got to have thick skin, that's unavoidable. And maybe work a bit harder.
El_Che (in contrast with out heretic neoghbours in Echt^WHolland
)
17:59 gabiruh joined
jmerelo El_Che: that's rich :-) 17:59
18:00 fake_space_whale left
jmerelo m: say $*REPO; 18:05
camelia inst#/home/camelia/.perl6
jmerelo m: say $*REPO.repo-chain.perl; 18:08
camelia (CompUnit::Repository::Installation.new(prefix => "/home/camelia/.perl6"), CompUnit::Repository::Installation.new(prefix => "/home/camelia/rakudo-m-inst-1/share/perl6/site"), CompUnit::Repository::Installation.new(prefix => "/home/camelia/rakudo-m-ins…
18:09 thowe joined 18:17 stephane_ joined 18:19 cog left 18:21 fake_space_whale joined 18:24 andrzejku left 18:25 cog joined, zakharyas left 18:26 stephane_ left
Geth doc: 4b237e496b | (Tom Browder)++ (committed using GitHub Web editor) | doc/Language/tables.pod6
show an example of the deprecated method
 18:29
synopsebot Link: doc.perl6.org/language/tables
jmerelo says goodbye for the day 18:40
18:41 Kaiepi left 18:43 jmerelo left 18:51 raschipi joined
Mithaldu sorry that that ass wandered in here earlier. he posted something intended to be divisive, and i told him to stop it, and he both decided to argue it while insulting me, so i banned him for the arguing part 18:55
18:55 psychoslave joined 18:56 TreyHarris left
raschipi Mithaldu: The problem as I see it is the removal message, suggesting you indeed banned him for "right wing stuff". 18:59
If you had given a better ban message, he wouldn't be able to suggest a problem. 19:00
Mithaldu there was another message he posted in reply to that
he was banned for that one
raschipi But the first message was indeed removed just for being right wing? 19:01
Mithaldu yes
and i'll be fully frank 19:02
tadzik um, being right wing is bannable now? I thought it's only unwelcome when you're being hostile in your views
Mithaldu anyone who thinks we shouldn't remove right wing bullshit on the perl reddit can go and talk to a wall as far as i am concerned 19:03
raschipi I fully support banning people for being hostile, that will get a ban on right wing forums too.
Mithaldu i have zero tolerance for that, and i have zero interest with anyone who wishes to discuss that aspect
raschipi Really? In a Perl forum? You have heard about Larry Wall, right? You'll talk to that Wall, I suppose? 19:04
Mithaldu i have no idea about his politics and i don't care as he's never posted them on the subreddit 19:05
El_Che Mithaldu: thx for giving some context. However, I think you're talking about far-right or alt-right memes. I don't think you'll ban someone for a quote of Adam Smith
raschipi I won't have a problem with it either if you are just honest and transparent about it and list it as a rule on the sidebar.
Mithaldu raschipi: if it becomes a longterm problem i will 19:06
El_Che: haven't heard of the guy yet. i talk specifically about espousing things in line with en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right-wing_politics
raschipi That article is so biased it's funny. 19:07
Anyway, just list that as a rule is my suggestion, otherwise the guy is right to be pissed at you, I think. 19:09
19:10 TreyHarris joined
Mithaldu El_Che: also, again, i didn't ban him for posting anything, but for arguing and insulting 19:10
19:13 gabiruh left
raschipi Like I said, shadow rules will piss people off. 19:14
19:16 spycrab0 joined
tadzik my 3p is that if you ban someone for being insulting then it's completely fair, but if the feedback they see is "they hate me because I'm right-wing" then 1) they learn nothing 2) they tend to victimize themselves. And it leads to this "this mod is intolerant" nonsense rather than "oops, I guess I should've been nice and not a dick" 19:17
raschipi They used a shadow rule to remove his comment and he got angry, so they used that as an excuse to ban him. 19:18
Mods are openly intolerant, which is fine as long as people are told about it beforehand.
spycrab0 Heyo, quick question: Is there a way to use other variables than $_ as index variables in for loops, similar to for my $var... in perl5? 19:19
Mithaldu tadzik: the way they interacted as well as their posting history made it clear they had no intent of becoming a real human being ever. i like giving people chances, but there was no inch possible there
raschipi spycrab0: Yes, use $^a, $^b, etc.
tadzik spycrab0: or for @a -> $b { } 19:20
also, is your name a TF2 reference?
raschipi spycrab0: Or a pointy block for @list -> $var { ... }
Mithaldu haha
tadzik Mithaldu: I see 19:21
spycrab0 tadzik: yes it is. Although I've not played it in forever. just kinda stuck.
raschipi Mithaldu: Like I said, if you want to ban people for being intolerant or agressive, go right ahead, no problems with it, just make the rules clear, that's all.
19:21 domidumont joined
raschipi Seves you the headache of people accusing you of being unfair. 19:23
tadzik spycrab0: www.tf2sounds.com/1500 19:24
Geth doc: 289c0ceb42 | (Tom Browder)++ (committed using GitHub Web editor) | doc/Language/tables.pod6
add missing =end code
synopsebot Link: doc.perl6.org/language/tables
spycrab0 Is there a go-to perl6 web framework? 19:25
tadzik Cro is the way to go these days
though I obviously recommend giving Bailador a shot :) 19:26
19:28 domidumont left 19:29 fake_space_whale left
thowe bailador website is down :( 19:32
tadzik :( 19:33
spycrab0 Another stupid question: Is this the best way to embed array length in a string? say "Found $(elems(@primes)) primes"; I'm kinda used to the implicit scalar conversion from 5. 19:39
tobs m: my @elems = (1..10).grep: *.is-prime; say "Found {+@elems} primes"; say "Found @elems.elems() primes"; 19:41
camelia Found 4 primes
Found 4 primes
tobs are the ones I know 19:42
spycrab0 Those look way nicer. thanks!
El_Che m: say +('a','b','c') 19:46
camelia 3
20:22 turdmonkey joined, turdmonkey is now known as Bowlslaw
Bowlslaw Helloooo 20:23
moritz oh hai
Bowlslaw i've been using more unicode 20:28
it's fun
feels weird, though
20:45 Bowlslaw left 21:07 robertle left 21:16 sena_kun left 21:17 sena_kun joined 21:27 HaraldJoerg1 joined, HaraldJoerg left 21:31 koto joined, sena_kun left 21:33 HaraldJoerg1 left 21:47 koto left 21:54 smls left 21:57 Zoffix joined 21:59 MasterDuke joined
Zoffix mscha: instead of the `TVal %h{TKey}` you can parametarize with `Hash[TVal,TKey]` and then you can nest it to any depth you want. Autovivification looks to be buggy tho: 22:03
m: my Hash[Int] %h; dd %h<foo><bar> = 42
camelia Type check failed in assignment to %h; expected Hash[Int] but got Hash (${})
in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1
Zoffix Bowlslaw, lots of people hate Perl 6ers in r/perl and Mithaldu harassed me and threatened with a ban when I complained as well. Just use r/perl6 for all discussions: www.reddit.com/r/perl6/ 22:06
Mithaldu fyi i actually regularly act against people who try to report perl6 stuff on the perl reddit 22:07
Zoffix m: my @elems = (1..10).grep: *.is-prime; say @elems.:[+] 22:08
camelia 5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>
Prefix + requires an argument, but no valid term found
at <tmp>:1
------> 3(1..10).grep: *.is-prime; say @elems.:[+7⏏5]
expecting any of:
prefix
Mithaldu even complained to the reddit admins because there was at least one very persistent guy who reported every perl6 post for a while
Zoffix Ah, angle brackets 22:09
m: my @elems = (1..10).grep: *.is-prime; say "Found @elems.:<+> primes"
camelia Found 4 primes
Zoffix :)
22:10 fake_space_whale joined
tobs while we are at that, is there a way to make ".grep" looser than the range operator in the above? 22:10
Xliff Uh...
Zoffix: WTF?
tobs (except for parentheses, of course) 22:11
Xliff m: my @elems = (1..10).grep: *.is-prime; @elems.:[+].say
camelia 5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>
Prefix + requires an argument, but no valid term found
at <tmp>:1
------> 3s = (1..10).grep: *.is-prime; @elems.:[+7⏏5].say
expecting any of:
prefix
Zoffix tobs: add a space
m: say ^10 .grep: * > 5
camelia (6 7 8 9)
Xliff m: my @elems = (1..10).grep: *.is-prime; @elems:[+].say
camelia 5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>
Prefix + requires an argument, but no valid term found
at <tmp>:1
------> 3ms = (1..10).grep: *.is-prime; @elems:[+7⏏5].say
expecting any of:
prefix
22:11 SHODAN left
Zoffix tobs: oh, you mean the `..`. No, no way, other than parens 22:11
Mithaldu also, as i had clarified to you personally, i didn't threaten you with a ban, i said i had hoped to avoid putting the mod hat on when speaking to you about the tone of your posts, which is several steps removed from a ban 22:12
Zoffix Xliff: it's a special syntax for using prefix operators as methods
Wonder if it's even documented...
Mithaldu so please, if you talk about me publicly, be accurate
Xliff Zoffix++: Cheater.
Zoffix Xliff: yup: docs.perl6.org/routine/.:%3Cprefix%3E.html
22:14 raschipi left
Zoffix Mithaldu: I still have all those messages. You said "i've been holding off on using that flail" 22:14
Mithaldu yes, by which i meant the flail of admonishing you in public using my mod distinguish 22:15
to quote myself: "i have been trying to correct it in a gentle manner and without embarassing you publicly"
tobs m: 1..10 andthen .grep: * > 5 # Zoffix: found my "postfix parenthesis" :) 22:16
camelia ( no output )
Zoffix tobs: heh :0 22:17
*:)
spycrab0 My prime program is slightly more lengthy... www.irccloud.com/pastebin/hIqkjkVX/ 22:18
Zoffix Mithaldu: I don't care any more. If you want to protect people who make fun of the disabled and ban all the Republicans, knock yourself out. r/perl isn't a place I wish to visit anyway.
spycrab0: you can write my $n = 2; $n <= 10_000; $n++ with a sequence op, BTW 22:19
,: say (2 … 10_000).tail
m: say (2 … 10_000).tail
camelia 10000
Zoffix m: say (2 … 10_000)
camelia (2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 72 73 74 75 76 77 78 79 80 81 82 83 84 85 86 87 …
Mithaldu you don't care because i just provided proof that you lied, and then you followed it up with another lie
Zoffix Mithaldu: except your "proof" is from a different message than your "flail" threat. 22:20
spycrab0 Zoffix: I had a version with even more int's all over the place though and was worried that using ranges like that might slow down the script
Zoffix spycrab0: yeah, the `loop` might be more performant at the moment 22:21
Mithaldu it was part of the same 3 post conversation
Zoffix spycrab0: hehe, you don't need `use strict` in Perl 6 programs :) 22:22
It's the default :)
spycrab0 I would've used ``use warnings`` too if I hadn't gotten an error... 22:23
Zoffix heh :)
That's from a different language.
spycrab0 Talking about speed: Is there any way to manually pre-compile scripts? 22:24
Zoffix spycrab0: well, just stick all the code into a module and it'll precompile. Export a single sub that calls all the things and just call that sub from a script. 22:25
spycrab0: make the `$n` in your loop an `int` as well.
spycrab0: `loop (my int $n = 2; $n <= 10_000; $n++) {` 22:26
spycrab0 Yeah the version I sent in here is a weird in between one.
Kept removing / readding that stuff to see if it actually did anything
Zoffix spycrab0: otherwise you're hitting the non-native candidate for the %% op. Also instead of `$a % $b == 0` just use `$a %% $b`. I imagine it's faster
Is there a way to do a `do loop` but with a label? `do FOO: loop` doesn't pick it up it seems 22:28
spycrab0 Zoffix: Nope, actually doubles the running time. 22:29
Maybe it's not supported on native types? 22:30
Zoffix m: my int @primes = do loop (my int $n = 2; $n <= 10_000; $n++) { next if @primes.first: { $n %% $_ }; $n }
camelia Type check failed in push to int array; expected int but got Mu (Mu)
in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1
Zoffix spycrab0: what's your perl6 version?
22:30 rindolf left
spycrab0 "This is Rakudo Star version 2018.04.1 built on MoarVM version 2018.04.1" 22:30
Zoffix oh yeh 22:32
almost doubles for me too
there is a native % candidate tho :/
Geth doc: fd3645783d | (Elizabeth Mattijsen)++ | doc/Type/Scalar.pod6
Added Introspection section to Scalar

Specifically the "name", "default" and "dynamic" methods were not documented yet. And the "of" was buried in documentation about atomic ops. Felt right to create a separate Introspection section		 22:33
synopsebot Link: doc.perl6.org/type/Scalar
MasterDuke m: my $a; for ^1_000_000 -> $i { $a = $i % 7 == 0 }; say $a; say now - INIT now 22:35
yoleaux 03:22Z <Zoffix> MasterDuke: did some digging into the `multi z(42)` thing. Looks like the perf rewrite works fine in `sub`s, but in `multi`es, stuff becomes 10x slower and I think just drowns out the improvement. Filed as R#2002
synopsebot R#2002 [open]: github.com/rakudo/rakudo/issues/2002 [perf] `where` in single `multi` vs. `sub` is 10x slower
camelia True
0.505614
Zoffix ah, it's not the `%` op, it's the .push on native array
MasterDuke m: my $a; for ^1_000_000 -> int $i { $a = $i % 7 == 0 }; say $a; say now - INIT now 22:36
camelia True
0.1875295
Zoffix m: my int @a; loop (my $n = 2; $n <= 10_000_000; $n++) { @a.push: $n }; say now - ENTER now
camelia 1.5518815
Zoffix m: my int @a; loop (my int $n = 2; $n <= 10_000_000; $n++) { @a.push: $n }; say now - ENTER now
MasterDuke m: my $a; for ^1_000_000 -> $i { $a = $i %% 7 }; say $a; say now - INIT now
camelia 3.31587918
True
0.4095549
MasterDuke m: my $a; for ^1_000_000 -> int $i { $a = $i %% 7 }; say $a; say now - INIT now
camelia True
0.36197587
Zoffix s: (my int @a), 'push', \(my int $)
SourceBaby Zoffix, Sauce is at github.com/rakudo/rakudo/blob/8286...y.pm6#L626
Zoffix ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 22:37
lizmat yeah not a lot you can do there
Zoffix lizmat: but what makes it 2x slower than non-native?
Like, I'd take if speed were the same, but slower?
lizmat are you sure the native int candidate is run ?
because if not, then the boxing / unboxing is to blame I guess 22:38
Zoffix Most likely. That's how SourceBaby finds the sauce. It calls .line/file on the candidate
Zoffix benches
MasterDuke it's also weird that `%%` is slower than `% == 0` 22:39
Zoffix yeah, the int candidate
There are also 9999999 sink calls.
presumably that's what getting boxed? 22:40
lizmat aahh
Zoffix s/getting/causing/;
lizmat probably, yes
MasterDuke though in both of those cases the native version is indeed faster
Zoffix m: use nqp; my int @a = 1, 2, 3; dd nqp::push_i(@a, my int $value); 22:41
camelia 0
Zoffix hm, wonder if sticking `my int $ = ` over here would improve it: github.com/rakudo/rakudo/blob/8286...y.pm6#L627
or rather, sticking it into the special file that gens that code 22:42
lizmat fwiw, not calling sink on native values in void context, would be better 22:44
Zoffix yeah
lizmat also: the IntLexRef objects that get created are *RED* in the overview: which indicates they are coming from code running in the interpreter ?
Zoffix hm, p6sink already got a conditional as `if $sinkee_res.result_kind == $MVM_reg_obj {` 22:45
22:45 psychoslave left
spycrab0 Could I prealloc the memory for `@primes` somehow? Would be nice to not have that happen on the fly especially since I know an upper limit as to how many primes there can be per range. 22:45
I guess I could just $primes[1000] = 0; or something and use an index. 22:46
Zoffix spycrab0: `my int @primes[1000000000]`
tobs btw, I stumbled on this error message typo yesterday. Making a PR seems overly bureaucratic or do you still prefer it? github.com/rakudo/rakudo/compare/m...mmediately
Zoffix tobs: merged. Thanks 22:47
tobs o7 22:48
lizmat spycrab0 : if you're interested in memory consumption *and* the prime numbers are in the 64bit range, then you probably want to work with a native int array 22:50
sleep& 22:53
Zoffix I think they already are using it 22:55
22:56 mscha left, epony left
Zoffix nope, adding `my int $` to that place didn't fix the slowdown 22:58
Zoffix wishes `--profile --profile-filename=out.html` were just `--prof=out.html`
oh it's the array itsel fthat sinks 22:59
oh wait, it's the method argument boxing 23:04
Forgot that happens
m: class Foo { method z (int $x) {} }; my int $z = 42; for ^10_000_000 { Foo.z: $z; }; say now - ENTER now
camelia 4.0402742
Zoffix m: class Foo { method z (int $x) {} }; my $z = 42; for ^10_000_000 { Foo.z: $z; }; say now - ENTER now
camelia 2.2502544
Zoffix And jnthn mentioned wanting to work on this in medium-term future, to make it not box. 23:05
23:06 jast left
Xliff Is there anything in META6.json for specifying perl5 modules for Inline::Perl5? 23:06
Zoffix Filed R#2007 23:08
synopsebot R#2007 [open]: github.com/rakudo/rakudo/issues/2007 [perf] Native parameters perform boxing
23:10 jast joined, TreyHarris left 23:12 TreyHarris joined
spycrab0 Didn't think my shitty script would actually result in the discovery of a bug, lol. 23:12
Zoffix spycrab0: actually just using normal array makes it a lot faster too. I get 4605 P/s on this one: gist.github.com/zoffixznet/fbd3578...e6b83c1b31 23:19
23:20 pmurias left 23:25 Zoffix left 23:31 turdmonkey joined 23:41 MasterDuke left 23:49 wamba left 23:51 turdmonkey is now known as Bowlslaw
Bowlslaw concurrency is awesome 23:51
react whenever is sweeeeet 23:52
I kinda get it now. I think
AlexDaniel Bowlslaw: can you explain it to me? What react whenever does? 23:55
and why is it awesome 23:56
hobbs it reacts! Whenever. 23:57
Bowlslaw well
exactly
what hobbs says
Bowlslaw whistles a cheery tune
AlexDaniel m: react { whenever Promise.in(1) { sleep ∞ }; whenever Promise.in(2) { say ‘It reacts! Whenever’ }; } 23:58
Bowlslaw LOL
camelia (timeout)
AlexDaniel hobbs: well, that didn't react
Bowlslaw He did say 'whenever'
hobbs whenever it feels like :) 23:59
Bowlslaw hobbs++
AlexDaniel well, to be honest, our docs on roact totally suck
react*

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