Pugs 6.2.6 uploaded by cpan-upload.p6! | pugscode.org/ <Overview Journal Logs> | pugs.kwiki.org | paste at sial.org/pbot/perl6
Set by integral on 2 June 2005.
nothingmuch just read `char buffer[10000]=""` as a derclaration that the adjective 'buff' is applied to something of type char 10000 more, relative to "" 11:37
functional programming is making me stupider
but I *feel* like i'm actually smarter
kungfuftr looks forward to marty pauleys monads talk at yapc::eu 11:43
xerox kungf00f, what a nickname :)
kungfuftr xerox... what an unoriginal name 11:44
=0)
xerox :( 11:45
lathos Slowly filling up with old data: buscador.simon-cozens.org/ 11:55
QtPlatypus When is invoke() called on a Class? 12:05
Limbic_Region salutations all 12:27
autrijus hey Limbic_Region. 12:28
autrijus is waiting at boarding area
nothingmuch autrijus: did you get my private messages? 12:29
Limbic_Region have a "happy trip" 12:31
that appears to be a filipino saying
autrijus nothingmuch: yeah 12:33
Limbic_Region: thanks. I'm feeling quite trippy already 12:34
nothingmuch i forgot what I wrote
autrijus nothingmuch: something about brain temperature.
nothingmuch but does my deduction of what runReader initInterp interpret []
make any sense?
autrijus nothingmuch: sure. 12:35
but it has nothing to do with laziness.
the monadic functions are "boxed" on top of one another
so they are just functions, not evaluated values
runReaderT evaluates the topmost computation
which runs the inner computation to yield the value it requires 12:36
et cetera, like russian dolls
so it doesn't matter if it's lazy or strict
nothingmuch so it's an inversion of the tree
the AST
and the reason that the computer doesn't explode is that it's lazy?
autrijus you can say that, yes
no, you can do the same in perl.
or any other strict language
because monadic functions are only _composed_ 12:37
nothingmuch so why doesn't the computer explode
autrijus because it's just packing function pointers around
there's no data involved
at all
so it's cheap
svnbot6 r4443, autrijus++ | * hw2005.txt - very random notes jotted down during the taxi drive to airport 12:38
scook0 nothingmuch: looks like harrorth is coming along nicely 12:39
nothingmuch scook0: except that autrijus has melted my brain, and now i'm trying to recover 12:40
scook0 ah well
I must get around to writing some Haskell one of these days... 12:41
autrijus nothingmuch: that is the result of your desire to actually understand how ReaderT works :)
not that it's a bad thing... but most people just learns how to use it and stop at that
scook0 deeper understanding is always nice 12:42
autrijus I didn't fully grok it either, yet I used it for ~3 months for openafp :)
and I didn't trully grok it until I defined a new monad (SIO) and a new monad transformer (EvalT) 12:43
scook0 oh, the irc logger seems to be back up :)
nothingmuch autrijus: i think that my problem with haskell is that I didn't understand the details completely 12:44
so I didn't know how to use them properly
autrijus brb...
nothingmuch i am considering delaying the introduction of your patch into harrorth's tutorial chronology though
autrijus nothingmuch: sure.
Limbic_Region learning Haskell to me is akin to learning an alien (as in space) language 12:50
people typically learn stuff by building a bridge by relating stuff they already know to new stuff in steps until the gap has been bridged
too foreign to me for that
nothingmuch going home early... woo! 12:57
svnbot6 r4444, Aankhen++ | * small changes to HTTP::Message.
nothingmuch lets see if I grok Reader by the end of the day
12:58 theorbtw1 is now known as theorbtwo
kungfuftr seen castaway? 13:04
jabbot kungfuftr: castaway was seen 2 days 21 hours 55 minutes 53 seconds ago
theorbtwo kungfuftr: Castaway is on vacation. 13:05
She's in the south of france with her family :) -- SOs not invited :(. 13:06
kungfuftr theorbtwo: any idea for how long? 13:07
theorbtwo Until the 9th. Then the next day she flies to the US with me. 13:08
We're going to have a funky schedule for a while... which sadly means that we can't start coordinating the move for a bit. 13:09
svnbot6 r4445, autrijus++ | * Incorporate Damian's review notes to the main text.
theorbtwo
.oO(That was the info you were going for, right?)
13:11 batdog|gone is now known as batdog
kungfuftr theorbtwo: *blink* what? 13:12
theorbtwo kungfuftr: She got offered the job. 13:19
kungfuftr oh right...
kungfuftr has been away on holiday
congrats to her!
autrijus ok, boarding time. 13:20
wish me a safe flight etc :)
autrijus waves &
kungfuftr autrijus: have fun!
clkao autrijus: ciao!
theorbtwo autrijus: Safe flight! Have fun!
xerox autrijus, have fun fun fun! 13:21
theorbtwo May you make mad fat hacks together with Leo!
larsen autrijus: have a good time :) 13:22
kungfuftr theorbtwo: you be moving as well then? 13:25
theorbtwo Yes! 13:26
kungfuftr theorbtwo: beer must ensue! 13:27
theorbtwo Indeed!
Me wanting to move was actually a major motivation for Jess seeking a job.
Now we need to figure out what to pack, and what to get rid of, and how to make the move, and how to get me a visa, and where we're moving too, and about a million other things. 13:28
kungfuftr theorbtwo: british/american ?
theorbtwo She's british, I'm american, yeah.
kungfuftr stop stealing our jobs!
and women!
=0)
theorbtwo: if you need lists of where to get flats, etc. lemme know 13:29
theorbtwo I probably will. 13:30
It seems a bit early for that, though, since we won't be moving until September.
kungfuftr September!?
theorbtwo There's lots of notice to give, and getting me a visa before that would be difficult, and there's this vacation. 13:31
kungfuftr theorbtwo: have you any irish heritage? 13:32
theorbtwo A very little, possibly... why?
kungfuftr as long as great-grandparents were irish citizens, you can become an irish citizen, which allows you to become an EU citizen and therefore work in the UK 13:33
=0)
iblech autrijus: [evalbot's quotemeta bug] I fixed it a week ago or so, but it seems that the machine running evalbot still has the old evalhelper.p5
kungfuftr which reminds me, need to renew my irish passport
theorbtwo Hm, I wonder if I can proove that. 13:35
kungfuftr *shrug* will look up the details
theorbtwo: www.irelandemb.org/fbr.html
theorbtwo I was planning to get an unmarried partner UK visa -- I can proove I've been with Jess two years in September.
Ah, needs to be a grandparent, not great-grandparent, so no can do. 13:38
kungfuftr theorbtwo: it's great-grandparents (actually), but there's a few restrictions 13:39
such as the grandparent would have had to have their birth recorded with the Eire authorities 13:40
thought it could be overseas
iblech Hm... Net::IRC is broken. 13:59
svnbot6 r4446, iblech++ | mklivecd.pl -- Added hint about stripping pugs and parrot.
arcady apparently "map @list -> { stuff }" is supposed to be written as "map @list, -> { stuff }" 14:35
somehow, I think the comma shouldn't be required there
iblech @list -> { stuff } is (correctly) parsed as sub (@list) { stuff } 14:36
So there has to be something to disambiguate 14:37
arcady um... that's not correct
I mean @list -> $i { stuff }
the args of the pointy sub appear between the -> and the {
iblech D'oh! Of course 14:38
arcady and in "for", it needs no comma
this is confusing, I think
crysflame pugs livecd? 14:39
iblech Jep. That's because for is on statement-level (there's no corresponding &foo, only a &statement:<foo>), while map is a regular function.
crysflame: Yep. Pretty minimal ATM, though. Included is Pugs, its modules, Parrot, and sh, nothing else. 14:40
crysflame cool
torrent?
arcady I should install pugs and parrot on my zaurus...
iblech HTTP, it's only 5 MiB or so :)
crysflame heh
iblech But wait a sec, I'll upload a recent version
arcady and what is the prototype of &map ?
because for can be made a function with the same prototype 14:41
iblech crysflame: linide.sf.net/pugs-livecd-latest.iso (version from yesterday)
arcady: Yep. The difference is that map has a return value (e.g. my @foo = map ... works), while for hasn't (my @foo = for ... is illegal, even) 14:42
crysflame sucking sound commences
arcady yeah
iblech arcady: And because for is statement-level, it can have extra syntactic support from the grammar
arcady: Like dropping the ","
crysflame would be neat to overload for to have a return value of the @foo that was passed into it 14:43
modified or not
arcady in ruby it does have a return value
in fact, everything there does, or almost everything
but it wouldn't be too hard to change the grammar to not require the "," on map, would it? 14:44
crysflame what would break if such was done?
iblech Yep. You even wouldn't have to modify the grammar, you could use a macro with an appropriate "is parsed" trait, I think 14:45
arcady no, really, what is the prototype of map?
iblech, that is modifying the grammar...
iblech According to S29: multi sub Perl6::List::map (Code $expression : *@values) returns Lazy 14:46
arcady: Yep, but much more simple -- i.e. you don't create a new grammar which inherits from the original grammar and then overload some rules
arcady I suppose 14:47
and the map prototype is not right
oh wait
wolverian wow that's a bizarre signature 14:48
arcady okay, I think that's not working very correctly 14:49
theorbtwo So you can use a , or a : between the list and the sub... but you've got to have something?
wolverian &code.map(@foo); # er.
theorbtwo Or that, wolverian.
arcady yeah, I'm talking about the "map(*@list, &code)" one 14:50
wolverian theorbtwo: if that's the signature, you _have_ to have the :
theorbtwo: , doesn't work
(I think. I'm not sure about the MMD fallback mechanisms) 14:51
arcady: map @list: &code; you mean?
map ({1}): ({1}); # I wonder which one this dispatches to... 14:52
(Assuming the special case of (one_element) creating a List)
arcady okay, but I can say "map 1,2,3, -> $x { $x+2 }" 14:53
wolverian hmm. that doesn't dispatch to anything, then.
arcady ?eval map 1,2,3, -> $x { $x+2 }
evalbot6 pugs: cannot cast from VList [VInt 2,VInt 3,VCode (MkCode {isMulti = False, subName = "<anon>", subType = SubPointy, subEnv = Just (MkEnv {envContext = CxtSlurpy (mkType "Any"), envLValue = False, envLexical = MkPad {"$?1":=[(<ref>,<ref>)],"%_":=[(<ref>,<ref>)]}, envGlobal = <ref>, envPackage = "main", envClasses = Node {rootLabel = (mkType "Any"), subForest = [Node {rootLabel = (mkType "Void"), subForest = [Node {rootLabel = (mkType "Object"), subForest
wolverian ?eval map 1,2,3 : -> $x { $x+2 }
evalbot6 Error: unexpected "a" or "m" expecting program Only one invocant allowed
Limbic_Region ?eval map 1,2,3 -> $x { $x 2 } 14:54
evalbot6 Error: unexpected ">" or "-" expecting operator, ",", ":", term postfix, postfix conditional, postfix loop, postfix iteration, ";" or end of input
Limbic_Region heh - my plus symbol is broke
arcady ?eval map (1,2,3), -> $a { say $a }
evalbot6 Error: No compatible subroutine found: "&say"
wolverian that's pretty nonfunctioning
Limbic_Region ?eval map 1,2,3 -> $x { $x - 2 }
evalbot6 Error: unexpected ">" or "-" expecting operator, ",", ":", term postfix, postfix conditional, postfix loop, postfix iteration, ";" or end of input
wolverian who broke pugs? :)
Limbic_Region dunno
arcady you need the comma!
wolverian ?eval (1,2,3).map(-> $x { $x - 2 })
evalbot6 (-1, 0, 1)
Limbic_Region ?eval (1,2,3).map:{ $x - 1 } 14:55
evalbot6 Error: Undeclared variable: "$x"
wolverian ?eval (1,2,3).map:{ $^x - 1 }
evalbot6 Error: unexpected ":" expecting term postfix, operator, postfix conditional, postfix loop, postfix iteration, ";" or end of input
Limbic_Region ?eval (1,2,3).map:{ $_ - 1 }
evalbot6 (0, 1, 2)
wolverian hmm right. really broken
iblech wolverian: ?eval "^" doesn't work in the old evalbot
Limbic_Region wolverian - you need to use $_ in that last one
theorbtwo ?eval map (1,2,3), {$^x-1}
wolverian iblech: old evalbot?
evalbot6 Error: unexpected "{" expecting "::", ":", term postfix, operator, postfix conditional, postfix loop, postfix iteration, ";" or end of input
Limbic_Region I think
theorbtwo ?eval map (1,2,3): {$^x-1}
evalbot6 Error: unexpected "{" expecting "::", ":", term postfix, operator, postfix conditional, postfix loop, postfix iteration, ";" or end of input
theorbtwo ?eval map (1,2,3): -> {$^x-1} 14:56
evalbot6 Error: unexpected ">" or "-" expecting "::", ":", term postfix, operator, postfix conditional, postfix loop, postfix iteration, ";" or end of input
Limbic_Region goes back to $wrok
svnbot6 r4447, iblech++ | Net::IRC -- Quick fix to make it work again.
theorbtwo Hm.
wolverian Limbic_Region: not in perl6. evalbot/pugs might differ
iblech wolverian: Yeah. The machine running evalbot has an outdated evalhelper.p5, causing ^ to be (incorrectly) escaped.
Limbic_Region right - I missed the ^
wolverian iblech: ah. can it be upgraded? :)
Limbic_Region: oh, okay.
iblech wolverian: Of course, I fixed this bug a week ago or so :) But I don't have access to the machine it's running on. In fact, I even don't know on what machine it runs 14:57
wolverian iblech: okay. 14:58
nothingmuch makes a large stupid smile
after about 10 sessions of 10 minutes, and one session of about an hour of thought, I think I figured out the reader monad
wolverian hmm. is there any need for a POE-style framework in perl6?
nothingmuch wolverian: yes, but It won't be like POE, i think 14:59
it will define far less than POE
wolverian right.
that's what I'm thinking too.
yield for =<>; # :) 15:01
iblech I'd like POE6 to make more use of continuations and coroutines, so I can write code like "my $input = post($wheel, "read")" -- post() should be some kind of magic sub which returns to POE's event loop and resumes execution of my sub when the event finished
Right now, you have to define many callback events 15:02
nothingmuch =)
wolverian iblech: you mean $wheel.post("read"), right?
:)
anyway, that's pretty trivial really, if we have callcc 15:03
iblech Yeah. Or POE::Kernel.post($wheel, "read"), or whatever it'd be called :) BTW, assuming $wheel.post("read") will work, then post($wheel, "read") will work, too, thanks to MMD
wolverian I thought you'd need ($wheel : "read") 15:04
nothingmuch how does POE actually yield, btw? 15:05
is it recursive?
wolverian POE doesn't yield.
nothingmuch doesn't it have a yield() function?
wolverian right, but that's not coroutines, if you meant that
nothingmuch if so, ignore my comments, i was under the assumption that it emulates cooperative multithreading in p5
iblech I'm not 100% sure, but IIRC $obj.method($arg), method $obj: $arg, and method($obj, $arg) all do the same thing (the first two directly dispatch to $obj, the last one uses MMD to find the correct codevar) 15:06
wolverian iblech: ah, okay.
nothingmuch: $kernel->yield($event, @args); is just a regular call. so yes, recursive. 15:07
(yield() is just a shorthand for post($current_session, ...) 15:08
s,$,),
nothingmuch so yield goes to the dispatcher, and it decides which component to give time to?
how does it return to the yield? does it have to let all the thins that were started in the mean while finish?
wolverian yes.
Events posted with yield() must propagate through POE's FIFO before they're dispatched. This effectively yields timeslices to other sessions which have events enqueued before it.
(perldoc POE::Kernel)
iblech nothingmuch: yield() returns (almost) immediately, the event queue is only processed when the current even handler returns 15:09
wolverian watches iblech and perldoc fight
iblech :D
nothingmuch i need to read it's source
wolverian "its"
iblech: so it yields to other sessions? 15:10
nothingmuch okay okay
wolverian if there are no other sessions, the current event handler is at the top of the queue, naturally
nothingmuch iblech: so how is time sliced between sessions?
iblech wolverian: Yep, but the event "call this event in that session" is not called until it's first in POE's FIFO 15:11
wolverian iblech: right, but the $event that you yield() isn't put to the top of the FIFO 15:12
svnbot6 r4448, iblech++ | Added a new pugsbugs test testing for the bug which caused Net::IRC to stop
r4448, iblech++ | working (t/pugsbugs/parsing_lexical_code_vars.t).
wolverian iblech: to me that seems like the FIFO must be processed first
but I'm not a POE expert by any means :)
iblech nothingmuch: POE::Kernel has a runloop which calls event handlers. During the execution of an event handler, POE's runloop does (of course) not run. You can queue in a new event by calling POE::Kernel->post or POE::Kernel->yield. These put the info "call event foo in session bar" on POE's FIFO 15:13
wolverian: Yep, you're right.
nothingmuch ooh! 15:14
i get it
so when the current session finishes it's call, then all the things it yielded get run fifo order
iblech wolverian: yield() and post() only push to the FIFO, they never unshift it
nothingmuch much simpler than I thought
iblech nothingmuch: Yep, exactly
nothingmuch hasn't followed the reduce metaoperator on empty list thread
is it going to be as flexible as foldr? 15:15
wolverian it's more flexible.
nothingmuch is the identity value only going to be used if there's only 1 element?
wolverian or rather - it has different semantics.
nothingmuch: no. it's used whenever you provide the :initvalue adverb.
(or :identvalue.)
nothingmuch when you don't provide it? 15:16
iblech I like Juerd's explanation on [...] best -- [...] is simply a join($operator, $args) on the syntax level. So "[+] 3" means "3" and "[+] 1,2,3" means "1 + 2 + 3"
wolverian then there is no identity value
and a reduce on a zero length list fails
nothingmuch okay 15:17
wolverian iblech: at least if the operator is defined as a listop
well. it's like that in any case.
iblech Yep.
nothingmuch makes sense =)
theorbtwo wolverian: You mean if it's /not/ defined as a listop.
If it is defined as a listop, it'd possible be called with a zero-length list.
wolverian (it's just that whether it's a fold or a real reduce depends if the op is a listop or a binary op)
theorbtwo: yes, but that's not the semantics Larry wants. 15:18
theorbtwo OK.
wolverian (according to the post he just sent to p6l.)
theorbtwo bows to the wisdom of the Larry.
wolverian it makes sense to me. and you can always do &precircumfix:<[ ]>.=assuming(:initvalue); 15:20
Limbic_Region just finished reading it
wolverian loves .=
osfameron what does .= do ? 15:21
iblech inplace method call
@foo .= bar() is equivalent to @foo = @foo.bar
wolverian foo .= bar; is the same as foo = foo.bar;
just like +=, -= etc
iblech (but foo is evaluated only once)
osfameron eeek, doing that on a method is quite scary 15:22
does it work?
iblech And quite useful: @array .= sort:{...}; @array .= map:{...} etc
wolverian one has to remember that @array .= map:{ s/foo/bar/ }; is redundant, though 15:23
nothingmuch how do you apply precircumfix ... to an op?
wolverian unless map:{ } really does copy by default
iblech @array .= uniq; $string .= lc; $num .= abs
nothingmuch &precircumfix:<[ ]>.=assuming(:initvalue).(&infix:<+>, @list)?
wolverian which is horrible efficiency-wise
nothingmuch: the .= modifies the &precircumfix.<[ ]>, so all calls after that to it will use :initvalue 15:24
nothingmuch oh, i didn't notice!
wolverian &precircumfix:<[ ]>.=assuming(:initvalue); say [*]; # doesn't fail
iblech IIRC, in Pugs, it's readwrite
nothingmuch you are crazy
osfameron so you can assign to a sub, you don't need to bind?
wolverian hmm, good point. I have no idea. :)
$foo = @bar; $foo = @baz; # doesn't modify @bar 15:25
osfameron otherwise .:= ?
wolverian I don't know.
iblech I think so. But binding is ok, too
osfameron the wheeled cannon operator
wolverian someone could run that by p6l :)
since for normal values, assigning to the ref doesn't modify the original value
does it do so for subs? 15:26
iblech IIRC, &foo in "my &foo" is no longer a real reference, so it'll work
wolverian is it specced?
iblech (But the $foo in "$foo = &foo" is) 15:27
Not sure
But I'm pretty sure of that, and it matches the behaviour of @ and %: my @a = (...); @a = (...); # changes @a, my %a = (...); %a = (...); # changes %a, my &a = {...}; &a = {...}; # should change &a 15:28
wolverian good point.
so &a isn't a ref at all, but a container
iblech Yep, I think so. 15:29
wolverian that's a bit odd. then arrays can hold subs and refs. :)
osfameron ooo, lovely javascripty goodness
wolverian (which doesn't make sense since &foo isn't a vector container) 15:30
(s,vector,plural,)
iblech But, binding, especially compile-time binding is useful, too: my &infix:<plus> ::= &infix:<+> (creates the "plus" operator at compile-time) But: my &infix:<plus> = &infix:<+> will only work in eval()s
I think the types will still be enforced, so @foo can only hold things which are Arrays 15:31
Similarily for % (Hash) and & (Code)
wolverian no, I didn't mean that
I meant that you can store a Sub directly into @foo then 15:32
which would make it equivalent with a Scalar
@foo.push({ ... }); # doesn't push a ref
iblech Meant that too (I think). And I think that won't work, as a Code is not an Array. So a @-container always has to point (point in the internal sense, not meant as a reference) to an Array (but of course an Array can hold Any) 15:34
wolverian my @foo; @foo.push({...}); # now @foo holds a Code
oh, can Arrays hold Any now and not just Refs? 15:35
(or Scalars)
iblech Yeah. @foo then contains one elem, a Code reference. But @foo still isa Array. 15:38
wolverian yes.
I didn't mean that you could change that!
iblech No, I should have better said Scalar of Any or somesuch 15:39
wolverian I just meant that it feels odd to me - as a perl5 coder - that there would be another scalar type besides ref (and scalar) that an array can hold
iblech ah :)
iblech understands
wolverian :)
iblech The {...} which is pushed to @foo is a Code *reference*
But the &foo in "my &foo = ..." is not, this &foo is an actual value 15:40
wolverian hmm. okay.
that's subtly weird in its own way, too, since &foo isn't a plural container
like %foo is
(or @foo)
iblech Yeah, but $foo is a scalar container, too 15:41
wolverian right, and I'm used to having only one scalar container :)
(that is, scalar)
(er, Scalar. or so.)
iblech :)
nothingmuch thinks of writing a p5 obfu with an implementation of monads
especially this scary reader monad
i'll call it "Whither do notation" 15:42
iblech :D
And you even wouldn't have to obfuscate it syntax-wise ;)
theorbtwo nothingmuch: Source filter that converts ; to >>=, and an overload that makes >>= do something funky? 15:43
nothingmuch iblech: did you try to understand how Reader works?
i think I need a metaphor for it
i think i finally understood how it works
theorbtwo: no, the opposite.. I'll define >>=, (non circumfix, mind you)
sorry, non infix
theorbtwo Non-infix?
nothingmuch and local, and ask
theorbtwo Can perl 5 do that?
nothingmuch yes
bind(sub { }, sub { });
err, sorry 15:44
bind($result, sub { })
theorbtwo Oh.
I meant actually naming it >>=.
(Bitshift right and assign.)
wolverian theorbtwo: >>= is a numeric bitshift assignment already, so you can just override it.
iblech nothingmuch: [understanding of Reader] Thanks to your conversations with autrijus, I think I got it mostly :)
nothingmuch oh no, that's too much info
theorbtwo wolverian: Yes, but that's infix; he specified non-infix. 15:45
nothingmuch iblech: what I see it doing is the first call to >>= creates a function
wolverian oh. that won't work. :)
iblech And BTW, nothingmuch, you might want to look into examples/functional/monads.p6
nothingmuch it contains the first doExp
on the left hand, if you will, and the rest on the right side
this is returned
then runReader (this thing) initInterp takes the new interp
and hands it to the function it got out of (this thing) 15:46
and that function takes the interp, and passes it to the lambda that was generated on the right side of >>=
iblech Makes sense
nothingmuch that is, the doExp, and then this thing's result is unwrapped, and fed into the right side
that is, the next thing in the do notation
so it's just chained 15:47
but the interesting part is how the chain starts
basically
op :: Reader x
op
generates a lambda
runreader (op) value 15:48
is a bit like saying
op value
if it were not in the reader monad
autrijus: when you backlog, please verify
iblech: monads.p6 is cool, but i grokked the IO monad a long time ago 15:52
like, yesterday, or the day before
iblech :)
nothingmuch see chapter 4 of harrorth =)
iblech 217.12.145.3: m19s28.vlinux.de/iblech/pugs/livecd.iso is very outdated. The most recent version is at linide.sf.net/pugs-livecd-latest.iso 15:59
theorbtwo wonders if people have played with %CALLER::, and found problems with it, yet. 16:01
ninereasons m 16:06
^H^H^H^H 16:07
^H
^H^H^H^H^H^H^H
^H^H^H^H^H
^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H
^H
it
nothingmuch terrorist 16:08
ninereasons that was odd. sorry about the gibberish. 16:10
SamB yes, quite odd. A lot of U+007Fs... 16:35
svnbot6 r4449, ninereasons++ | motd.p6, motd-i.p6: these pointy subs now seem to require parens 16:43
Limbic_Region there is a Code type? 16:45
where should I have read that?
iblech L<S06/"Types"> 16:47
In S06 there's a nice graph of the Code hierarchy, too
Limbic_Region well - with signature type checking raising complaints - it probably would have made some of my code a lot easier 16:48
IOW - if I have an optional parameter that is supposed to be a code reference
I don't need to see if it is defined AND if it .does(CODE)
btw - does Pugs do any type checking yet? I remember it didn't a while ago 16:49
err - WRT sub signatures that is
iblech ?eval sub a(Code $x) { 42 } a(42); # Still doesn't, I think 16:50
evalbot6 42
iblech Yep, not yet implemented 16:51
gaal nothingmuch: sleepingsquirrel.org/monads/monads.html # "Monads in Perl"
wolverian I'd use &x :) 16:52
Limbic_Region oooh - all kinds of want.method tests I think I should add 16:53
wolverian please do!
Limbic_Region++ 16:54
Limbic_Region going to have to wait until tonight though - just read perlmonks.org/index.pl?node_id=464022
want.count is unimplemented
as apparently is want.Void 16:55
currently providing incorrect behavior 16:58
at least as I understand it
perlbot nopaste 16:59
perlbot Paste your code here and #<channel> will be able to view it: sial.org/pbot/<channel>
pasteling "Limbic_Region" at 129.33.119.12 pasted "want should be a number not a junction" (8 lines, 106B) at sial.org/pbot/10819
gaal L~R, if you've got tuits, tests for caller are welcome too ;-) 17:00
i however must prepare a lecture for $work tomorrow...
oh! also, tests for %SIG
%*SIG even. 17:01
Limbic_Region heh - one thing at a time
gaal :)
Limbic_Region these won't happen until tonight anyway
gaal yeah, i shouldn't really be #perl6ing, myself :)
iblech Limbic_Region: sial.org/pbot/10819 does not output junctions here 17:02
Limbic_Region really 17:04
Limbic_Region wonders how old his Pugs is
6.2.6 - so that's a good sign
wolverian neither on feather. 17:05
Limbic_Region perhaps I should see if Jonathan has updated the binary build
wolverian returning List (Any) instead.
iblech Yep, here it outputs List (Any), too
Limbic_Region uncrosses his eyes and sees that List (Any) is not any(LIST) 17:06
ok - well it is still wrong output
wolverian where is want specced? 17:07
S06?
Limbic_Region yes
although A06 goes in a bit more details
wolverian hmm. 17:08
my $foo = { want }(); gives some pugs internal things.
I think.
(mkType?)
Limbic_Region wolverian - I am reading the part of A06 that says "The want value can simply be used as a number:" 17:11
if want >= 2 { return ($x, $y) } # context wants >= 2 values
or explicitly, want.count
wolverian right. but only in numeric context. 17:12
theorbtwo Sadly, we don't have overridable stringification or nummification of general objects. 17:13
Limbic_Region yeah - but it isn't in Pugs ATM
wolverian well that's why it didn't work :)
wolverian wondered for a second
Limbic_Region or so I was lead to believe by that thread I referred to
theorbtwo Well, you can do it by giving it it's own class.
wolverian given want { yield when Desperate } 17:14
wolverian hums
theorbtwo But you can't implement it as a method, because doing it that way creates circular dependencies.
Limbic_Region theorbtwo - I am not at all concerned about implementation 17:15
svnbot6 r4450, iblech++ | Added an experimental POE module (ext/POE).
Limbic_Region I read the spec, notice it missing or deficient, write the test(s) - and let someone else worry about implemenation
wolverian hmm. what kind of?
integral ooh, a POE for perl6 interesting.
Limbic_Region of course, if I ever make it past chap 4 of YAHT, I might start implementing stuff too 17:16
integral iblech: have you talked to the perl5 POE folks about a perl6 version?
mrborisguy ?eval my @a=(0,1); if 1 == any( @a ) { say "yes" } else { say "no" } 17:19
evalbot6 Error: No compatible subroutine found: "&say"
mrborisguy woah, didn't expect that... 17:20
?eval my @aoa=([0,1],[0,1]); if 1 == any( @aoa[0] ) { say "yes" } else { say "no" }
evalbot6 Error: No compatible subroutine found: "&say"
integral it's run in safe mode by the bot, so there's no &*SAY
err, &*say
wolverian use the return value. 17:21
mrborisguy okay, so that's not working. anyway, i have a question. the first line gives me "yes", but the second line gives me "no"
wolverian (just remove the 'say')
Limbic_Region missing semicolons
mrborisguy ?eval my @aoa=([0,1],[0,1]); my @b = @aoa[0]; if 1 == any( @b ) { "yes" } else { "no" } 17:22
evalbot6 'yes'
mrborisguy why can't i use any( @aoa[0] ) ?
wolverian ?eval 1 == any ([0,1],[0,1])[0]
evalbot6 (bool::false)
Limbic_Region ?eval my @a=(0,1); if 1 == any( @a ) { say "yes"; } else { say "no"; }
evalbot6 Error: No compatible subroutine found: "&say"
Limbic_Region hmmm 17:23
mrborisguy ?eval my @a=(0,1); if 1 == any( @a ) { "yes" } else { "no" }
evalbot6 'yes'
Limbic_Region say is unsafe
wolverian yes, we already realised that :)
?eval ([0,1],[0,1])[0]
evalbot6 \(0, 1)
wolverian right, it's a ref.
Limbic_Region sorry - was thinking that it was a missing ; issue
which I have seen elsewhere
wasn't paying attention to your discovery
wolverian Limbic_Region: ah, okay.
Limbic_Region which makes a whole lot of sense
wolverian hmm. so how do I deref the array inline? 17:24
mrborisguy can i make it a list somehow? i tried any( list @aoa[0] ), but that didn't seem to work either
wolverian mrborisguy: that just makes a list of one element - the arrayref
mrborisguy so i have to make a new list then? my @b = @aoa[0]; any( @b ) ? 17:25
it doesn't seem like i should have to do that
wolverian oh. *
mrborisguy is there a better way?
Limbic_Region **
wolverian ?eval *([0,1],[0,1])[0]
evalbot6 (0, 1)
wolverian * is enough here, thanks. :)
Limbic_Region was attempting to be funny
wolverian ?eval 1 == any *([0,1],[0,1])[0] 17:26
evalbot6 (bool::false | bool::true)
wolverian there we go.
mrborisguy sweet
thanks!
wolverian you're welcome!
mrborisguy ?eval my @aoa=([0,1],[0,1]); if 1 == any( *@aoa[0] ) { "yes" } else { "no" }
evalbot6 'yes'
mrborisguy good thing i asked, i almost thought it was a bug/unimplimented 17:27
Limbic_Region ?eval my $foo = all(1..10); $foo.pick; 17:35
evalbot6 undef
Limbic_Region ?eval my $foo = any(1..10); $foo.pick;
evalbot6 1
Limbic_Region does that strike anyone else as odd?
wolverian I'm not sure.
?eval (1..10).pick
evalbot6 6
wolverian just do that? :)
iblech integral: re. No, it's just a very, very simple experiment. I'd be happy if someone with knowledge of POE internals does a real POE port :) 17:36
mrborisguy you would think you should be able to pick from an any or an all though...
wolverian how about none?
none(1..10).pick
er
?eval none(1..10).pick
evalbot6 undef
wolverian that does make sense to me
and rankly, so does the all() behaviour
iblech nods 17:37
mrborisguy wouldn't that be the same as (1|2|3|4).pick ?
(for the any case)
wolverian yes.
mrborisguy (and obviously out to 10 instead of 4)
wolverian (and that works.)
mrborisguy ?eval (1|2|3).pick
evalbot6 1
mrborisguy ?eval (1|2|3).pick
evalbot6 3
wolverian as you can see. :)
mrborisguy i'd say write a test then
?eval (1&2&3).pick
evalbot6 undef
wolverian is .pick specced? 17:38
mrborisguy what exactly does it mean for something to be 'specced'
if it's in any(<A E S>)?
wolverian yes. 17:39
any<A E S> works too, by the way :)
mrborisguy i think i read it in there, then... that really points you in a good direction, huh?
wolverian heh.
mrborisguy really? i'll have to remember that
it's just a learning day for me then! 17:40
svnbot6 r4451, ninereasons++ | motd: change tabs to spaces for consistency. remove artifacts of earlier experiments, and improve the perl-6ishness somewhat
ninereasons hmm. POE has landed. 17:44
wolverian hmm?
ninereasons class MySession is POE::Session { ... } 17:46
integral it would be interesting to implement POE::Session as a perl metaclass 17:47
ninereasons another iblech++ useful port 17:48
wolverian hmm. that is nice. 17:49
doesn't use continuations though :(
iblech Note though that's only a small experiment, not a full port yet
ninereasons noted :-)
iblech wolverian: Yep. I tried a bit in interactive Pugs, but there &?CALLER_CONTINUATION didn't seem to work, or at least not in the way I thought it should work 17:50
integral there's some bugs with that :-)
wolverian iblech: right. :)
Aankhen`` iblech++ # POE 18:12
svnbot6 r4452, Aankhen++ | * HTTP::Message -- realised that hashes can be specified in signatures.
r4452, Aankhen++ | * HTTP::Message -- added C<returns Foo> wherever applicable.
Juerd iblech: Unfortunately, it's made much more complex :( 18:14
iblech: And I really don't agree that reduce with an empty list should ever be able to fail.
Aankhen`` Is there any equivalent to localtime() that I can use for now? 18:18
Juerd Aankhen``: `date`? :) 18:23
webmind oi 18:24
mrborisguy eval_perl5( localtime() ) ? # without really knowing what you're looking for
PerlJam Aankhen``: you could just implement localtime() :-) 18:25
18:30 khisanth_ is now known as Khisanth
iblech Aankhen``: Yeah, implement it :) Adding the op is not very hard (I could guide you, I think), but I don't know about Haskell's calendar routines 18:30
Aankhen`` The only problem is that I dunno any Haskell... 18:33
Oh, and Juerd: *** No compatible subroutine found: "&date" 18:35
iblech I didn't, either, before I started hacking Pugs :) Anyway, localtime() is unspecced ATM and IIRC the plan is that localtime() and gmtime() should be substituted by a clever result object from time(). 18:36
Aankhen`` Ah.
iblech (So one can do time().hour or somesuch) 18:37
Aankhen`` I wouldn't mind that... I just need something that'll help port Time::Local and thereby HTTP::Date, which will perhaps let HTTP::Headers work. :-)
theorbtwo haskell.org/ghc/docs/latest/html/li...lendarTime 18:42
mrborisguy ?eval my @a = (1); sub modify( @in is copy ) { @in[ 0 ] = 7; } modify( @a ); @a; 18:49
evalbot6 [1]
mrborisguy say my @aoa = ([1]); sub modify( @in is copy ) { @in[0][0] = 7; } modify( @aoa ); @aoa;
?eval my @aoa = ([1]); sub modify( @in is copy ) { @in[0][0] = 7; } modify( @aoa ); @aoa;
evalbot6 [[7]]
mrborisguy is that what should happen? 18:50
i thought my @in was a copy, so i shouldn't be able to modify it, right? even though it's a somewhat deep modification?
iblech_ There was some discussion about that on p6l, but I don't recall the decision... 18:52
mrborisguy oh, i'll look for it then
you have a general idea of how long ago it was? 18:54
iblech_ Some months, I think. Try to search for Perl6::Subs and Chip
18:54 iblech_ is now known as iblech
iblech (Chip implemented the Perl 6 sub definition syntax in Perl 5, releasing it as Perl6::Subs on CPAN. Then he asked how deep "is copy" and "is rw" are) 18:55
knewt ok, that's more like it. the only non-localhost port i've got open on my laptop now is ssh. will feel better out at the apw now 18:56
mrborisguy can i search on nntp somehow? groups.google.com is blocked at my work
obra nntp.x.perl.org? 18:57
mrborisguy (www.nntp.perl.org)
knewt gmane is pretty good for most stuff
mrborisguy well, time to go play poker again 19:10
19:20 kcwu_ is now known as kcwu
svnbot6 r4453, iblech++ | * New pugsbugs test: t/pugsbugs/return_in_anonymous_subs.t 19:27
r4453, iblech++ | * Added note about POE in ChangeLog
wilx So...what version of hs-plugins do I neet for Pugs? 19:33
theorbtwo wilx: A daily. 19:37
wilx Ok. 19:41
Hmm, how healthy is gmake check of hs-plugins? 19:53
What tests are expected to fail?
theorbtwo No idea. 19:54
fnord123 Hey all. What is the golf part of pugs for. 20:14
theorbtwo fnord123: Fun. 20:15
fnord123 fun as in "what should we make G stand for?" or fun as in there is actually some golf game here that i dont see 20:16
Limbic_Region fnord123 - the face of pugs has changed dramatically in the little over 4 months it has been around 20:17
theorbtwo Oh, in the name?
Limbic_Region right
it was a play on words
hugs
theorbtwo (The haskell users' golfing system) 20:18
fnord123 oh ok
Limbic_Region fnord123 - there are several golf examples though btw
svn.openfoundry.org/pugs/examples/golf/
fnord123 because hugs was written in scotland, i presume
is perl golf some kind of 'one liner' game? 20:20
Limbic_Region fnord123 - golf is a game of skill and fun
a problem is presented (usually with some rules and restrictions)
and the contest is to solve the problem in the fewest strokes as possible 20:21
where strokes refers to keystrokes not swings
geoffb hola
Limbic_Region salutations
geoffb Not that I'm telling anybody here anything new, but budgets can take a LOT of time to create
Limbic_Region there are many many many examples of golf around in various different languages
theorbtwo examples/golf and t/golf contain perl6 golf. 20:23
geoffb Golf is a game that I can do decently at, but never win, because I just can't bring myself to strangle the interpreter quite that much.
:-)
Limbic_Region isn't a very good golfer nor is he very good an obfusication
theorbtwo Nor am I, Limbic. 20:24
geoffb Every part of me that's into maintainable code just screams "DEAR GOD NO!!!" from every corner of my cranium.
theorbtwo Exactly, geoffb.
theorbtwo needs something to hack on now.
geoffb That said, some of the winning golf entries I've seen have been beautiful in their brilliance.
ninereasons theorbtwo, actually hugs has something to do with gofer, not golfing
mj41 ?eval { 'a' !~ rx:perl5{a} }
evalbot6 bool::true 20:25
Limbic_Region the most obfu thing I ever wrote was purely accidental
perlmonks.org/index.pl?node_id=384885
mj41 ?eval { 'a' ~~ rx:perl5{a} } 20:26
evalbot6 MkMatch {matchOk = True, matchFrom = 0, matchTo = 1, matchStr = "a", matchSubPos = [], matchSubNamed = {}}
geoffb Trying to deeply understand the code in BASIC Computer Games and More BASIC Computer Games when I was a kid pretty much ended any desire I ever had to be obfuscated.
Limbic_Region notes the time and heads homewards 20:27
geoffb I still don't have any idea how some of that code worked
21:06 khisanth_ is now known as Khisanth
mj41 ?eval { sub a { say '1'; } sub a { say '2'; } a(); eval qq| sub a { say'3'; }|; a(); } 21:24
evalbot6 Error: No compatible subroutine found: "&say"
geoffb mj41, it will automatically print whatever your code returns, but say is not allowed 21:26
mj41 ?eval { my $s = ''; sub a { $s ~= '1'; } sub a { $s ~= '2'; } a(); eval qq| sub a { $s ~= '3'; }|; a(); $s; } 21:27
evalbot6 \'232'
mj41 ?eval { my $_ebs = ''; sub say ( $str ) { $_ebs ~= "$str\n"; } sub print ( $str ) { $_ebs ~= $str; } sub a { say '1'; } sub a { say '2'; } a(); eval qq| sub a { say'3'; }|; a(); $_ebs; } 21:31
evalbot6 \'2 3 2 '
mj41 ?eval { my $_ebs = ''; sub say ( $str ) { $_ebs ~= "$str\n"; } sub print ( $str ) { $_ebs ~= $str; } sub a { say 1; } sub a { say 2; } a(); eval 'sub a { say 3;'; a(); $_ebs; } 21:36
evalbot6 \'2 2 '
mj41 ?eval { sub a { 4; }; a(); } 21:37
evalbot6 4
mj41 ?eval { my $_ebs = ''; sub say ( $str ) { $_ebs ~= "$str\n"; } sub print ( $str ) { $_ebs ~= $str; } sub a { say '1'; } sub a { say '2'; } a(); eval qq| sub *a { say '3'; }|; a(); $_ebs; } 21:50
evalbot6 \'2 3 2 '
mj41 ?eval { my $_ebs = ''; sub say ( $str ) { $_ebs ~= "$str\n"; } sub print ( $str ) { $_ebs ~= $str; } sub a { say 1; } sub a { say 2; } a(); eval 'sub *a { say 3;'; a(); $_ebs; }
evalbot6 \'2 2 '
mj41 ?eval { my $_ebs = ''; sub say ( $str ) { $_ebs ~= "$str\n"; } sub print ( $str ) { $_ebs ~= $str; } sub a { say 1; } sub a { say 2; } a(); eval 'sub *a { say 3;}'; a(); $_ebs; } 21:51
evalbot6 \'2 3 '
mj41 ?eval { my $_ebs = ''; sub say ( $str ) { $_ebs ~= "$str\n"; } sub print ( $str ) { $_ebs ~= $str; } sub a { say 1; } sub a { say 2; } a(); eval 'sub a { say 3; }'; a(); $_ebs; } 21:52
evalbot6 \'2 2 '
PerlJam Does the evalbot respond to msg?
mj41 ?eval { my $_ebs = ''; sub say ( $str ) { $_ebs ~= "$str\n"; } sub print ( $str ) { $_ebs ~= $str; } eval 'sub *a { say 3; }'; a(); $_ebs; } 21:59
evalbot6 \'3 '
mj41 ?eval { my $_ebs = ''; sub say ( $str ) { $_ebs ~= "$str\n"; } sub print ( $str ) { $_ebs ~= $str; } eval 'sub *a { say 3; }; a();' $_ebs; } 22:00
evalbot6 Error: unexpected "$" expecting operator, postfix conditional, postfix loop, postfix iteration, ";" or "}"
vcv-- ?eval 1 x 'a'
evalbot6 ''
vcv-- ?eval 'a' x 5 22:01
evalbot6 'aaaaa'
geoffb sinks into newly purchased Aeron -- not bad . . . 22:12
nothingmuch darcs pull harrorth 22:40
therein is explained the wonders of the Reader monad
in the chaotic chapter 6
which will be cleaned up tomorrow 22:41
autrijus: feather.perl6.nl/~nothingmuch/harro...oc/06.kwid
nothingmuch would really appreciate people who are trying haskell, but not really "getting" it to read through the harrorth tutorial, and see if it helps 22:43
geoffb nothingmuch, you should consider adding harrorth to READTHEM 22:50
nothingmuch geoffb: patches welcome. I need to go sleep ;-) 22:51
actually, this isn't so much of an effort, i can do it
geoffb heh 22:52
nothingmuch there 22:55
everyone feel free to rephrase the premise, i'm not good at that sort of stuff 22:56
geoffb++; # thanks for the suggestion
ciao! 22:57
svnbot6 r4454, nothingmuch++ | Harrorth in READTHEM
23:02 batdog is now known as batdog|gone 23:15 misc is now known as JoeFox, JoeFox is now known as misc
mj41 wiki.kn.vutbr.cz/mj/attach/pugs/http-server/ ... good night 23:21
crysflame neat
Limbic_Region nothingmuch - will revisit harroth soonish now 23:33
Limbic_Region is off

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