pugscode.org | temporary feather address: perl6.wall.org | sial.org/pbot/perl6 | ?eval [~] <m oo se> | We do Haskell, too | > reverse (show (scanl (*) 1 [1..] !! 4))
Set by allbery_b on 24 March 2007.
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QtPlatypus The thing that acts as a test harness and spits out pritty pritty HTML, what is that and is it advalable for perl5 ? 00:29
[particle] test::tap::htmlmatrix iirc
and yes, it's a perl 5 module on cpan 00:30
QtPlatypus smiles "Thankyou [particle]" 00:32
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pasteling Someone at 70.230.235.89 pasted "is there anything in this code that would cause it not to work?? if not, somethings wrong with apache/mod_perl me thinks....." (32 lines, 1.2K) at sial.org/pbot/23826 01:44
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xinming Heard from one of my friends which likes python. He said Python is already self-hosting, Is it right? *_* 05:41
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QtPlatypus has heard words to that effect. 05:42
offby1 !!
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offby1 self-hosting in that the python interpreter is written in python? That's hard to believe 05:42
Aankhen`` There are a number of Python implementations... 05:43
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PyPy
offby1 and as far as I know nobody actually uses any of them except the standard C one
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revdiablo offby1: People use jython sometimes 05:45
It's kind of cool, really
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offby1 "use" or "play with"? 05:46
i.e., do they use it to get real work done? ("Real Work" here doesn't include developing jython.)
revdiablo Yes
I know someone who used it a lot, for real stuff 05:47
offby1 huh.
I stand corrected.
revdiablo So that's 1 out of 5 billion
;)
offby1 :-)
I was about to say.
xinming Pypy can already pass 98% test suite for CPython. 05:48
codespeak.net/pypy/dist/pypy/doc/re...1.0.0.html
Come on... Pugs... :-) 05:49
Aankhen`` Heh.
offby1 xinming: but again, the question is: does anyone actually use it? 05:50
Aankhen`` TBH, I never quite understood the concept of self-hosting. What are the benefits? 05:52
xinming offby1: Well... No one use it currently doesn't mean It's useless.
revdiablo Aankhen``: To attain sentience? Take over the world?
Aankhen`` sentience++
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xinming Aankhen``: If a language can be written by itself, then, we when we need to add feature to a language. It's easier and many more good features. 05:53
Aankhen``: eg. Perl 5 is written in C, and for now, It's very hard to extend the interpreter.
revdiablo Programmers who use the language can eat their own dog food by writing the compiler/interpreter for that language?
offby1 xinming: it doesn't _mean_ it's useless but it does make a fella wonder
xinming If Pypy can be used in production. I was a bit afraid of that python will defeat perl. >_< 05:56
Maybe I'm wrong,
Aankhen`` xinming: But the underlying language is still another one, so don't you have to replicate the changes there? 05:57
xinming Aankhen``: ??? 05:59
Aankhen`` I mean, let's say Perl 6 A is written in Perl6 B. Perl6 B is still written in another language, isn't it? And as such, wouldn't any changes to Perl6 A still need to be translated into the language Perl 6 B is written in? 06:00
xinming Aankhen``: Read the codespeak.net/pypy/dist/pypy/doc/ge...arted.html The testing suite is from CPython.
lambdabot Title: PyPy[getting-started] 06:01
xinming Aankhen``: No, We just need to translate Perl 6 into any other language we like, And run perl 6 on top of that.
Aankhen``: It's a bit hard to understand at first. :-) 06:02
revdiablo Aankhen``: I see what you mean, if the language changes and the interpreter is written to the old language, then it is no longer self hosting?
Aankhen`` revdiablo: That's it, yes.
xinming Aankhen``: we need a language to bootstrap perl 6, eg, currently, pugs.
revdiablo Aankhen``: Features can be added without fundamentally changing the language, though
xinming Aankhen``: hmm, well, I'm wrong, not language, a compiler. 06:03
Aankhen`` revdiablo: Okay, but aren't you still doing double the work? :-S
revdiablo Aankhen``: No? 06:04
Aankhen``: You feed the interpreter's code into itself
Aankhen`` Oh, I see.
That's probably the critical step I was missing.
Ah, duh... I even read it at least five times till date in the Wikipedia article, but it never sunk in. 06:05
s/sunk/sank/ 06:06
revdiablo Aankhen``: Actually, I should have said compiler. There has to be a compiler that can compile the perl6 code into something else that can run independently. 06:07
Aankhen`` nods. 06:08
revdiablo So, perl 6 compiler written in perl 6 compiles its own perl 6 code into parrot bytecode, for instance
Tene Or, alternately, we could just built a cpu that can run Perl 6 code natively.
Aankhen`` After you've got that first version done, you don't actually need an external compiler any more, right?
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revdiablo Aankhen``: That's the idea, yeah 06:08
Aankhen`` Awesome. 06:09
revdiablo Aankhen``: Consider C compilers written in C
Aankhen`` Thanks for the explanation. I've been wondering about that for a while.
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DarkWolf84 I'll be verry happy when perl6 will be selfhosting but pugscc not work 08:05
offby1 Consider the oyster. 08:07
DarkWolf84 it gives me "Could not find module `Pugs.Internals':" 08:11
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DarkWolf84 I did not dot that with the oyster :) 08:19
got that*
offby1 I just spew semi-random stuff on occasion; no need to worry 08:20
that's the title of a book about food by MFK Fisher, if I recall correctly.
www.amazon.com/Consider-Oyster-M-F-...0865473358 08:21
DarkWolf84 :)
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DarkWolf84 ?eval say "Hello World" 08:52
?eval say "Hello World";
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DarkWolf84 the bot is not here 08:53
evalbot_r15797 OUTPUT[Hello Worldā¤] Bool::True 08:54
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spinclad the bot is here 09:02
DarkWolf84 well 09:03
maybe lag
it enters the new line too :P 09:06
nice
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baest is it possible in p6 to use AOP? If the problem was to log when a certain method was called. I wonder if the solution for that would be to use a role with that method, in that role method print out the time of the method call and call the non-role version of the same method. Is there other ways? 09:29
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DarkWolf84 ?eval our $test='one' ; sub { let $test='two'; return 1;} say $test 10:01
evalbot_r15797 Error: ā¤Unexpected "say"ā¤expecting operator
DarkWolf84 ?eval our $test='one' ; sub { let $test='two'; return 1;} say $test; 10:02
evalbot_r15797 Error: ā¤Unexpected "say"ā¤expecting operator
DarkWolf84 hm
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riffraff hi+ 10:02
DarkWolf84 hi
?eval our $test='one' ; sub change(){ let $test='two'; return 1;} change; say $test; 10:03
evalbot_r15797 Error: No such subroutine: &let 10:04
DarkWolf84 haha
same error
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Tene DarkWolf84: what do you intend 'let' to mean? 10:09
DarkWolf84 that's type
hypothetic type var
Tene ?eval our $test='one'; sub change {$test='two'};change;$test 10:10
evalbot_r15797 \"two"
DarkWolf84 if block fails the our var will be equal to the let var
in not *
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DarkWolf84 if not* 10:11
it seems the type let or temp r broken earlier 10:12
it seems the type let and temp r broken earlier 10:16
?eval our $test='one' ; sub change(){ let $test='two'; fail;} change; say $test; 10:19
evalbot_r15797 Error: No such subroutine: &let 10:20
Tene DarkWolf84: there is no 'let' in Perl 6 10:21
DarkWolf84 strange
Tene What's strange about that?
Unless I'm just failing to remember something from the Synopses... 10:22
wolverian "There is also a let function that sets a hypothetical value." --S04
DarkWolf84 that's it 10:23
Tene DarkWolf84: 'let' isn't implemented in pugs yet. 10:24
DarkWolf84 i think someone said me that older versions do it 10:25
and I saw let vars at www.programmersheaven.com/2/Perl6-F...pothetical 10:26
lambdabot tinyurl.com/24gosq
moritz DarkWolf84: I just tested r15509, and there it is implemented 10:27
Tene Ahh. 10:28
moritz see moritz.faui2k3.org/debian/pugs/ for debian packages of a few older revisions
lambdabot Title: Index of /debian/pugs
DarkWolf84 may be 6.10 in portage will work too 10:29
but i'm not sure
i don't know well bugcommiting system 10:31
in that case there is allready a test 10:32
moritz DarkWolf84: then just leave it alone, somebody will take care of it ;-) 10:33
DarkWolf84 ok
moritz DarkWolf84: probably audreyt when she returns ;-)
DarkWolf84 I'll go on and continue the check 10:34
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renormalist ?eval [~] <m oo se> 12:35
evalbot_r15797 "moose"
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DarkWolf84 ?eval my @a=(1,2,3); my @b=(4,5,6); my @c=(@a X @b); 12:50
evalbot_r15797 [(1, 4), (1, 5), (1, 6), (2, 4), (2, 5), (2, 6), (3, 4), (3, 5), (3, 6)]
DarkWolf84 ?eval my @a=(1,2,3); my @b=(4,5,6); my @c=(@a X @b); say @c; 12:51
evalbot_r15797 OUTPUT[1 41 51 62 42 52 63 43 53 6ā¤] Bool::True
DarkWolf84 why is this 12:52
why it don't want to print the permutatins like this up 12:53
got it 12:54
that with spases confused me 12:55
why it pugs uses spaces only for inner lists 12:57
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kolibrie DarkWolf84: when you 'say' an array, it assumes string context, and separates all elements with space 13:24
it looks like there is no space between the subarrays
DarkWolf84 right
kolibrie not sure what is supposed to be there
DarkWolf84 i don't know 13:26
when i printed them with for
they were really like strings 13:27
but without spaces
moritz ?eval my @a=(1,2,3); my @b=(4,5,6); my @c=(@a X @b); @c 13:28
evalbot_r15797 [(1, 4), (1, 5), (1, 6), (2, 4), (2, 5), (2, 6), (3, 4), (3, 5), (3, 6)]
moritz or
?eval my @a=(1,2,3); my @b=(4,5,6); my @c=(@a X @b); say @c.perl
evalbot_r15797 OUTPUT[[(1, 4), (1, 5), (1, 6), (2, 4), (2, 5), (2, 6), (3, 4), (3, 5), (3, 6)]ā¤] Bool::True
moritz .perl is _so_ cool ;-)
DarkWolf84 :) 13:29
that's why i like it :)
moritz and currently eval($foo.perl) is a rather slow but reliable way of deep cloning things ;)
DarkWolf84 i didn't know the perl method 13:30
kolibrie kind of like a built-in Data::Dumper 13:31
DarkWolf84 perl has really has more improvements 13:32
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DarkWolf84 I mean perl6 13:37
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DarkWolf84 is there way to write private method in perl6 14:51
[particle] my method think (Brain $self: $thought); # see S12 14:52
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svnbot6 r15798 | fglock++ | PCR - new syntax 'xxx' instead of <'xxx'> 14:57
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lichtkind Leibsle: noch am leben? 15:51
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lichtkind schade 15:56
moritz lichtkind: /nick entleibtsle ;) 15:57
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lichtkind wovon redest du? 15:58
man hab ich ne diskussion in wikipedia hinter mir
die radikalen vertreter der wissenschaft sind die allerschlimmsten 15:59
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moritz lichtkind: naja, wenn Leibsle nicht mehr lebt, ist das halt ent-leib(t)-sle't ;-) 16:01
lichtkind das hab ich schon verstanden aber da ich so gut wie kein irc kann bleich ich skeptische :) 16:02
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svnbot6 r15799 | fglock++ | PCR - updated tests 16:14
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Leibsle huggles lichtkind 16:58
i just came home :P
lichtkind ahh aufgewacht
Leibsle no, i was out for a beer with my dad :P 16:59
lichtkind Leibsle: ah so bin leider etwas erschƶpft spƤter vielleicht 17:05
Leibsle lichtkind, warum bist du denn erschōæ½xF6pft?
lichtkind Leibsle: holz hacken, feuer machen, jƤten knoblau stecken rechner reparieren, schreiben etc 17:07
Leibsle ohweia!
na dann ruhe dich mal gut aus :)
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gaal conal.net/papers/Eros/eros.pdf -- "Tangible Functional Programming" -- nice! 17:29
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audreyt sorry for lack of updates; @family suddenly went into crisis-mode, leaving me almost without sleep for the past few days. things are improving now and I should be able to make to Japan next week for YAPC::Asia, instead of having to skip it like POPL. 17:38
lambdabot audreyt: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it.
audreyt lambdabot: @messages
lambdabot ayrnieu said 15d 3h 57m 16s ago: could you please reset my svn password for pugs? 17:39
moritz audreyt: wb ;-)
audreyt not really back :/ probably will take another full day of rest, at least. 17:40
audreyt goes getting some sleep at last... & 17:41
geoffb wonders what happened to cause the crisis ... but in any case, hopes things continue to improve! 17:43
audreyt let's just say that creativity and intelligence has its flip/dark side, and I'm glad I managed to hold together this time to actually be of some aid :) 17:45
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moritz "the dark side is strong" ;-) 17:49
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geoffb Good for you, audreyt! 17:51
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svnbot6 r15800 | lwall++ | new platform independent todo mechanism for p6regex.t 18:05
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svnbot6 r15801 | lwall++ | updated todo markings on p6regex 18:44
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specbot6 r14356 | larry++ | Simplified -> binding not to autoalias $_ to first arg, per TheDamian++ 19:51
r14356 | larry++ | Also clarified why "when" must always break from immediately surrounding block.
r14356 | larry++ | Juerd++'s double-pointy block now allowed as convenient way to make all
r14356 | larry++ | parameters default to "rw".
r14356 | larry++ | Implicit $_ arg now defined in terms of <->
wolverian Juerd must be happy now. finally. :) 19:52
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[particle] Juerd will never be happy :) 19:53
moritz perl 6 - the only language that forces you to be happy ;-)
allbery_b perl6 paranoia?
moritz the Big Brother is written in p6 of course ;) 19:54
allbery_b you will be happy or you will be used as regexp buffer?
moritz allbery_b: no, "you will be matched" ;)
offby1 Why do the synopses have a "Last Modified:" field, which presumably must be manually updated,instead of using the Subversion "Date" keyword? 19:56
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moritz offby1: that would be too... magic ;) 20:05
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offby1 ? 20:06
sometimes magic can be good.
I suppose if nobody's ever made a mistake with those "Last Modified" fields, or if such a mistake isn't a problem, then editing it manually is fine. But it just seems Wrong.
moritz offby1: that was supposed to be ironic ;) 20:07
offby1 *whew*
wasn't sure :-)
jrockway wouldn't modifying the last-modified field be a modification? 20:10
and that gets recursive quickly :)
moritz jrockway: modifying last-modfied and other things for an atom operation together ;) 20:11
jrockway: encapsulated in SVN commits ;)
jrockway svn is clever about $Date$ 20:12
it updates it when you check it out based on the log
so technically it's not a modification :)
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specbot6 r14357 | larry++ | Tweaked when/break to leave innermost block with formal $_ (also TheDamian++) 20:22
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svnbot6 r15802 | fglock++ | PCR - minor fix in char classes 20:46
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geoffb fglock++ # Lots of PCR work 20:56
fglock :) 20:58
lambdabot fglock: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it.
svnbot6 r15803 | fglock++ | PCR - removed <'...'> from bootstrapped grammar
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Juerd TimToady++ 21:05
:)
moritz Juerd: what about += 3?
;-)
Juerd moritz: Sometimes I want to be verbose :) 21:06
pasteling "evalbot_r15802" at 194.145.200.126 pasted "Pugs build failure" (335 lines, 19K) at sial.org/pbot/23849
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specbot6 r14358 | larry++ | typo from Juerd++ 21:48
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Aankhen`` How come Juerd gets karma for making typos? :-( 21:50
ajs Because his typos are excellent
Aankhen`` I should get karma for typos, I'd be at a few thousand by now. =) 21:51
ajs Aankhen``'s typos++
Aankhen`` Yay!
perlbot, karma typos
perlbot typos doesn't have any karma
Aankhen`` perlbot, karma Aankhen``'s typos
perlbot Aankhen``'s typos doesn't have any karma
Aankhen`` Poop.
moritz karma Aankhen`` 21:52
perlbot: karma Aankhen``
perlbot Karma for Aankhen``: 8
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Aankhen`` Neat. I wonder what that was for. 21:52
s/that was/those were/
gaal well. it was a pretty funny typo.
ajs tipo? 21:53
snoop0x7b Aankhen``++ 21:54
Aankhen`` Merci, snoop0x7b++ ;-)
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Tene perlbot: karma tene 22:17
perlbot Karma for tene: 7
moritz perlbot: karma TimToady 22:19
perlbot Karma for TimToady: 107
moritz perlbot: karma larry
perlbot Karma for larry: 116
moritz perlbot: karma moritz 22:21
perlbot Karma for moritz: 3
Tene perlbot: karma audreyt 22:22
perlbot Karma for audreyt: 408
moritz perlbot: karma autrijus 22:23
perlbot Karma for autrijus: 91
moritz how much karma do you need to be a wizard? or a god? 22:24
snoop0x7b Aankhen``: for ($i = 0; $i < 100; $i++) { print $socket "PRIVMSG #perl6 :snoop0x7b++\n\r"; }
Patterner Infinity
snoop0x7b damnit xmms
jrockway karma me 22:26
perlbot: karma jrockway
perlbot Karma for jrockway: -1
jrockway haha, what did i do!?
snoop0x7b perlbot: karma snoop0x7b
perlbot Karma for snoop0x7b: 1
snoop0x7b it might consider asking for karma to be -?
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Aankhen`` snoop0x7b: Heh. 22:46
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Khisanth jrockway: apparently less than nothing 23:17
jrockway -- # less than worthless
:D
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Tene jrockway-- 23:24
jrockway perlbot: karma jrockway 23:25
perlbot Karma for jrockway: -2
jrockway now i need to find 2 bugs and fix them!
everyone-- # making me work on pugs again 23:26
ingy @seen schwern 23:28
lambdabot I saw schwern leaving #perl6 25d 19h 37m 20s ago, and .
ingy @seen Schwern
lambdabot I saw Schwern leaving #perl6 25d 19h 37m 27s ago, and .
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