pugscode.org | temporary feather address: perl6.wall.org | sial.org/pbot/perl6 | ?eval [~] <m oo se> | We do Haskell, too | > reverse (show (scanl (*) 1 [1..] !! 4))
Set by allbery_b on 24 March 2007.
TimToady by the "xor with 64" rule 00:00
offby1 nods solemnly
TimToady ?eval "\cG"
evalbot_r15894 "\x[7]"
offby1 odd.
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offby1 why not just plain 7? 00:01
TimToady left out the ord
?eval ord "\cG"
evalbot_r15894 7
offby1 is someone making secret fiddlings to evalbot that I can't see? 00:02
ah
nuts, I liked my conspiracy theory better
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specbot6 r14370 | larry++ | Clarify the single-character backslash escapes, including \c control forms. 00:16
r14370 | larry++ | Note that \c[ is not legal to mean \c[ESCAPE]
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svnbot6 r15895 | lwall++ | Fixed \c parsing to allow either named or control characters. 00:19
specbot6 r14371 | larry++ | typo 00:22
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riffraff hi 07:13
Tene Hi!
tokuhirom hi! 07:14
Tene Welcome to #perl6!
masak yes, hi and welcome 07:17
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svnbot6 r15896 | dvergin++ | s/$*ARGS/@*ARGS/ 09:19
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svnbot6 r15897 | diakopter++ | fixing Makefile.PL and Build.PL to report broken 09:27
r15897 | diakopter++ | dependency on YAML::Syck (<= 0.7.0). Perl6-Perldoc
r15897 | diakopter++ | should now make test; make install; without issues,
r15897 | diakopter++ | assuming you can get a correct version of YAML::Syck
r15897 | diakopter++ | installed.
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pasteling "evalbot_r15896" at 194.145.200.126 pasted "Pugs build failure" (47 lines, 1.8K) at sial.org/pbot/24198 09:34
"evalbot_r15896" at 194.145.200.126 pasted "Pugs build failure" (47 lines, 1.8K) at sial.org/pbot/24199
svnbot6 r15898 | diakopter++ | drat 09:36
moritz how can I get an older version of a module from cpan? 09:39
ok, found it ;-) 09:40
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diakopter moritz: here's a trick: cpan A/AU/AUDREYT/YAML-Syck-0.70.tar.gz 09:42
moritz diakopter++ # All tests successful, 2 tests skipped.
diakopter which YAML::Syck do you have 09:43
moritz 0.70
diakopter oh, ok.
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svnbot6 r15899 | Darren_Duncan++ | ext/QDRDBMS/ : large refactor of PhysType.pm, with the side effect that it now compiles with no code commented out 09:51
pasteling "evalbot_r15898" at 194.145.200.126 pasted "Pugs build failure" (317 lines, 17.7K) at sial.org/pbot/24200 09:53
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svnbot6 r15900 | fglock++ | mp6-p6parrot - simple subroutines; added example files 10:15
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svnbot6 r15901 | Darren_Duncan++ | ext/QDRDBMS/ : added explicit return-statements to all routines lacking them 10:19
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moritz dduncan: "make test" in ext/QDRDBMS/ fails, because the it tries to execute the wrong test files 10:25
dduncan: no, wait... ext/QDRDBMS/blib/script/pugs: No such file or directory 10:26
diakopter here's the output of perldoc2xhtml S26.pod6 if anyone's interested. Note the lack of <head><body>, etc. svnweb.veradox.com/css/S26.html
dduncan moritz, is that so ... it seems to work for me ... looking ... 10:28
moritz dduncan: perhaps you forgot to commit a script?
dduncan the latest smoke I saw on smokserv also showed passing tests 10:29
looking ...
QDRDBMS is technically very simple, it is just Perl 6 modules and Perl 6 test files ... no special scripts required 10:30
that said, if Pugs itself changed recently, I may not have built the last few patches in ... will try remake 10:31
moritz dduncan: it seems more like an error with the test: make target... 10:33
diakopter moritz: it might be that this build of QDRDBMS failed b/c the previous build of pugs failed...?
dduncan what I usually do for testing is cding into ext/QDRDBMS and saying 'make test', and the tests all pass 10:34
moritz dduncan: paste.debian.net/25506
dduncan due to how Pugs is setup, that just works, and is like a subset of the normal make test
moritz diakopter: no, the prev. pugs build succeeded
dduncan anyway, I just did a full Pugs remake
that is, pull, 'make'
the full make, and the test in just my dir succeeded 10:35
perhaps your build is messed up ... does this happen for any other ext/ ? 10:36
that said, I have a theory, looking ...
nope, not that ... I don't see how I'm doing anything differently from other ext/ that work 10:38
moritz dduncan: most other tests in ext/ succeed for me, and they don't complain about missing scripts 10:39
dduncan do any other ext/ give the same error?
is there someone else here, diakopter perhaps, can you please try running 'make test' on QDRDBMS yourself and check the results? 10:40
as per moritz nopaste
just cd into ext/QDRDBMS/ and then say 'make test', assuming you have a recent full Pugs 'make' that worked
"full" meaning the result of running "make" when you are in the root Pugs dir 10:41
moritz, you shouldn't have any blib dirs under ext/ dirs anyway 10:42
the only blib/ should be under the Pugs root dir, and that is where all ext/ modules are pulled during Pugs 'make' 10:43
your error seems to be looking for a dir that shouldn't be there
moritz dduncan: ok, I deleted blib/, made "make" in the pugs root, and now the tests work 10:44
sorry for the fuzz
dduncan no problem, glad you got it working for you
oh and fyi, any day now I will be adding more *.pm files to QDRDBMS, and so I believe the main Pugs Makefile.PL would have to be subsequently rerun in order for them to be moved to the /blib so the tests work after that 10:45
avar 10:45:23 * CPAN upload: Perl6-Perldoc-v0.0.3 by DCONWAY
dduncan such is, I believe, how the Pugs make system works
dduncan signing off for the 3:47am local time 10:47
diakopter avar: thanks. *wow* he got it to work with the latest YAML::Syck... 10:54
avar pause.perl.org/incoming/Perl6-Perld...0.3.tar.gz 10:56
diakopter ... and synced. 10:57
svnbot6 r15902 | diakopter++ | syncing Perl6-Perldoc-v0.0.3 from CPAN - it's now "stock" 10:58
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diakopter correction: it doesn't depend on YAML::Syck anymore. 11:05
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moritz do ^^ and $$ have a meaning in p5 regex? 14:23
rgs no 14:24
moritz but ^^ matches an empty string, right? 14:25
rgs certainly
moritz so there's no way of introducing ^^ and $$ to p5 regex without breaking anything :(
rgs esp. $$
since that interpolates to the pid 14:26
moritz right
avar you could write a re::engine::
PerlJam I wouldn't worry too much about such breakage.
rgs avar: hahaha
moritz avar: no, I can't ;-)
PerlJam How often is a program matchign it's own PID?
avar You still have to worry about it because your engine will get some integer and not "$$" 14:27
rgs it can look it up in `ps` for example
PerlJam And how often does someone actually use ^^ in a RE? (never)
avar so you need /^^ \$$/
moritz PerlJam: that's convenient if you filter the output of ps aux or something ;-)
PerlJam Sure, but what I'm saying is that he benefits outweight the breakage.
s/weight/weigh/
avar You don't have to break anything at all to add new regex engines in 5.10 14:28
PerlJam oh, that's right.
use feature '^^';
or whatever
avar no, use re::engine::PCR # or something
PerlJam Either way. I would worry even less about the breakage ;-) 14:29
avar if ("abc" =~ /((.).)./) {
say ${^MATCH}; # "abc"
say ${^MATCH}->from; # 0
say ${^MATCH}->to; # 3
moritz so how many re engines will be distributed with 5.10?
rgs one
avar two:)
rgs well, with the debug one, two
avar >:)
moritz but there are other available as CPAN modules? 14:30
avar yep, I've done re::engine::POSIX and Plan9, and Plugin
all of them are broken now though, the interface in blead is a bit unstable atm:)
moritz sounds cool
avar PCRE too
but that's not mine
PerlJam that's just sick
(PCRE as perl's re engine) 14:31
moritz where can I find a list of new features in 5.9/10?
PerlJam moritz: perldelta should have them.
(5.9.x's perldelta that is 14:32
)
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rgs perl59*delta.pod in the perl 5 sources 14:32
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moritz ok, thanks 14:34
moritz rsyncs perl-current ;-)
jerrylee moritz: any good doc to learn pugs systematically? 14:37
and, what is the most required part for community contribution? 14:38
kolibrie jerrylee: linking tests to the synopsis is a good way to both learn Perl 6 and help the community 14:42
moritz jerrylee: what do you mean by "learn pugs systematically?" pugs internals?
PerlJam the only way to learn about pugs' guts is to start digging around in them I think. 14:43
jerrylee moritz: programming on pugs ;)
I might put focus on further perl6 modules
moritz jerrylee: first read docs/Perl6/Perl5/Differences.pod 14:44
PerlJam jerrylee: to learn how to use pugs is to learn how to use perl6 (mostly)
moritz jerrylee: then the specs
and hope that pugs implements what you want to use ;-)
jerrylee :) i guess it is becoming what i want to use 14:45
i wish maybe on perl6 we have something like ruby on rails .. 14:46
moritz jerrylee: we will have catalyst on perl6
jerrylee catalyst? 14:47
svnbot6 r15903 | dvergin++ | More clarification on ARGS
moritz I read somewhere that their next major release will be written in p6 - let's keep our fingers crossed ;-)
jerrylee is googling catalyst
moritz jerrylee: catalyst.perl.org/
lambdabot Title: Catalyst - Web Framework
moritz an MVC-Framework like RoR
avar I wouldn't call it "like RoR" 14:49
jerrylee avar: is it quite diff?
avar yes, it doesn't suck
jerrylee we are developing on cakephp, mvc framework, and it's good for web app 14:50
moritz avar: no insult intended ;)
jerrylee moritz: catalyst looks interesting 14:52
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moritz jerrylee: it _is_ ;-) 14:56
PerlJam Hopefully perl6 will get "killer apps" like RoR/Catalyst soon after its release. 15:12
(or maybe even before :)
moritz before, yes ;-)
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PerlJam I went to a talk at SXSW by ppk (see www.quirksmode.org/) where he claimed that javascript will eventually disappear in the same way that asm has disappeared. No one will write in it. RoR validates his theory in some way because it's all about writing ruby code to implement functionality. 15:19
lambdabot Title: QuirksMode - for all your browser quirks
jerrylee that will be excellent
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PerlJam I think Perl 6 validates that idea as well in that it subsumes much of the functionality that has historically been relegated elsewhere. 15:19
jerrylee because perl6 + parrot + catalyst is too good to be true!!
moritz PerlJam: I think that's a bad comparison. JS is a high level language, and there are cases where people don't have server side scripting support, so they'll fallback to JS for some tasks 15:20
PerlJam I mean perl6 will make javascript fade into the background and SQL and other things just like perl5 made grotty shell scripts fade into the background (once we grew a bunch of perl5 experts) 15:21
moritz ok, "fade into background" is a term I can live with ;-)
PerlJam good :) 15:22
moritz and I won't shed a tear - js is generally hard to write and to debug IMHO
jerrylee so what's perl6 progress now? when will be pugs become perl6? 15:23
PerlJam jerrylee: it won't probably.
jerrylee: pugs may become the bootstrap environment to write perl6 in perl6 (maybe) 15:24
jerrylee PerlJam: when is it going to happen? 15:25
anything we can help?
PerlJam I am absolutely the wrong person to answer that question. :-) 15:26
moritz jerrylee: there's plenty of things you can help with - writing test cases, docs, raising funds, hacking pugs' internals...
jerrylee: helping the parrot folks...
PerlJam jerrylee: listen to moritz
kolibrie jerrylee: pick something you like and have fun! 15:27
moritz jerrylee: you could help fglock with his mp6/kp6 efforts (perl6 compiler written in a subset of perl6)
jerrylee moritz: hacking, ok :)
ok :)
moritz jerrylee: under src/perl6/ there are beginnings of perl6 implementation in perl6, currently most prominent is a grammar for perl6 15:28
jerrylee how can i find fglock
PerlJam jerrylee: perl6 is probably in chrysalis stage right now. Its butteryfly is eminent. (Hopefully it lives a lot longer than a real butterfly ;-)
moritz @seen fglock 15:29
lambdabot I saw fglock leaving #perl6 17h 57m 28s ago, and .
moritz jerrylee: usually he hangs around here
jerrylee: take a look into v6/ in the pugs repository, that should be a start
jerrylee moritz: thanks
moritz np 15:30
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jerrylee PerlJam: Perl6Jam? :P 15:32
Perl6 Jammed?
so on parrot python can link to basic directly? 15:38
[particle] yes, once it's implemented
jerrylee [particle]: as i know python and basic can run on parrot already? 15:39
[particle] basic is broken
jerrylee i see
[particle] python is partially implemented, like all high-level languages 15:40
we have the ability to export globals from one namespace to another
but nobody has written something that loads one languages' globals into another's 15:41
jerrylee how about pugs? i saw it runs on parrot 15:42
but it runs as a standalone also?
moritz jerrylee: no, it doesn not _run_ on parrot
jerrylee: it's a stand-alone executable, that embeds perl5 (and ghc?) 15:43
jerrylee: it can emit parrot code, or at least it should be able to do that
jerrylee moritz: i got it
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jerrylee bye guys, got to go to the bed 16:09
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lichtkind bye 16:23
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svnbot6 r15904 | moritz++ | Perl6::Perl5::Differences: want.List -> want.list 16:53
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specbot6 r14372 | larry++ | Clarification of simplified return values of filetests for brian.d.foy++. 17:03
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moritz TimToady: what do you think about 'for =@a { ... }' for reading all files stored in @a? 17:22
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moritz TimToady: then =@*ARGV would work without additional magic 17:22
avar doesn't = operate on handles now? 17:23
geoffb avar: I believe it works on iterators, which a filehandle can pretend to be
moritz the current pugs implementation works on filenames as well
so for =</etc/passwd> { ... } works 17:24
and I think this is quite a cool feature ;-)
though I don't know if it's specced
geoffb moritz: so perhaps you want for =<<@a>> ?
moritz geoffb: if that does what I want, yes ;-) 17:25
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OwlEye slaps lichtkind with a Python Beginner Guide 18:07
lichtkind OwlEye: i have my own :) 18:08
OwlEye lol
blasphemy! 18:09
moritz "no trial, no jury, straight execution" -- Vincent in "Pulp Fiction"
OwlEye hahaha
lichtkind OwlEye: why that violence 18:10
OwlEye lichtkind, the violence comes from moritz, i only laugh :P
moritz OwlEye: you started slapping ;-)
OwlEye the slap was a sign of love! 18:11
lichtkind das meinte ich
OwlEye could have used a MSCE Study Guide :P
lichtkind msce?
OwlEye MCSE, sorry 18:12
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moritz @google MCSE 18:14
lambdabot www.microsoft.com/learning/mcp/mcse/
Title: Microsoft Certified Systems Engineer
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lichtkind OwlEye: do you want to throw bad vibes into my perly brain? 18:32
OwlEye lichtkind, its a stability test. if you start reading the MCSE Guide you failed :P 18:33
lichtkind OwlEye: as an information junky i read anything
i even own a python pocket reference
OwlEye even poison??
lichtkind it was a present by confused freiend 18:34
friend
yeah even poison from a python
as a star child i cannot die like a time lord 18:35
moritz just like a friend of mine, vim user, who got an "emacs reference" mug from his sister...
OwlEye the Python books are okay. its Open Source. but MCSE = poison
moritz she remembered he was enthusiastic "about a unix text editor" ;-)
OwlEye when you have to migrate servers into a windows network and work with certified Microsoft engineers you will think about my words 18:36
moritz, lol
moritz, poor her. she had positive intentions for sure :)
moritz OwlEye: sure she had. But she survived (it was an older sister ;-) 18:37
lichtkind i yesterday finished de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Damian_Conway
now im on de.wikipedia.org/wiki/OSCON 18:38
OwlEye lol
lichtkind, i cant even read your articles as fast as you write new ones!
lichtkind the best of all damian liked and thanked me :) :) 18:40
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lichtkind good nichght 18:48
moritz schlaf gut ;-) 18:52
lumi Does anyone know the Common Lisp FORMAT function? Maybe there's some idea to be sto^Wresearched there 18:55
kolibrie I do not know it, but it has been mentioned before, so now I am intrigued, but not enough to look at it yet 18:58
lumi The printf in p6l reminded me; it's basically a DSL for printing deep data structures 18:59
moritz sounds like a good task for a core module ;-) 19:00
lumi I think so, printf is so.. C
"Complex FORMAT control strings sometimes bear a suspicious resemblance to line noise" 19:01
[particle] perl 6 has a replacement for perl 5 formats 19:07
lumi [particle]: What's that? Also, this isn't like Perl 5 formats 19:08
It's more like a smarter printf 19:09
[particle] it's called 'form' 19:10
here's a p5 impl: search.cpan.org/~dconway/Perl6-Form-0.04/Form.pm
lambdabot Title: Perl6::Form - Implements the Perl 6 'form' built-in - search.cpan.org
[particle] see A/E07 (no synopsis because it's no longer core)
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obra folks: we've got these lovely perl6 microgrants to give out 19:51
More pugs hackers need to apply
geoffb obra: I wish I had the time .... 20:01
geoffb gets the feeling he's not alone
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obra $500. 1 month of hackery. 20:06
these don't need to be big projects
Tene obra: perhaps gather some suggestions of projects people would like to see done. 20:07
zamolxes obra: writing a working useful thing in perl6 ? 20:10
i wanted to do this for fun anyway :)
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obra zamolxes: quite possibly, especially if you're writing good tests and docs and posting it publicly ;) 20:11
zamolxes i'll probably delegate the stuff to my team and buy a shitload of beer (if any grant is .. granted) 20:12
i always wanted to show them perl6
obra :)
Tene obra: I have time available, I just don't have any interesting ideas. 20:17
obra Tene: what have you been doing with pugs so far? 20:18
Do you hack haskell?
moritz maybe a foreign code interface?
or at least some preparations for that
Tene Never worked with haskell.
obra moritz: you mean like the current p5 stuff? 20:19
moritz obra: yes ;-)
Tene I've played around with some web development stuff, mostly.
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moritz Tene: Juerd (iirc) had some good ideas about a replacement for CGI in perl6... 20:20
diakopter obra: how many mini-grants/month have become available, if I may ask?
moritz Tene: if you want to code in perl6 that might be a good idea
obra we've got about 8 more to go right now
Tene moritz: I remember seeing that... 20:21
That could be fun to work on. 20:22
moritz I think that's a good idea because perl has traditionally strong on webservers...
so it would be good to have a working, good module as early as possible 20:23
Tene I don't have any idea how to quantify that into a month or so of work with clearly-defined success, though.
moritz Tene: I'd suggest you contact Juerd or darren duncan (he commited the placeholder ext/Web) and ask for ideas 20:25
obra possibly a minimal subset of jifty, catalyst or rails ported to p6.
diakopter obra - a port of qpsmtpd or another high-performance network server to p6? 20:31
perlbal perhaps 20:32
Tene will investigate ideas this weekend.
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obra diakopter: submit ;) 20:48
diakopter regarding those two (both use Danga::Socket) though, a certain someone tells me pugs won't be able to do the event loop system calls until this ticket is resolved: hackage.haskell.org/trac/ghc/ticket/635 I guess I should wonder if such libevent stuff is in parrot yet. I'll look it up. 20:52
lambdabot Title: #635 (Replace use of select() in the I/O manager with epoll/kqueue/etc.) - GHC - ...
spinclad obra: it's about time I came back to live hacking again... i'll talk with fglock and pmichaud about mp6/kp6/p6parrot, see how close they are to parsing Larry's grammar, firm something up for you 20:57
apply at TPF? 20:58
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obra news.perl-foundation.org/2007/03/be...erl_6.html 20:59
lambdabot Title: Best Practical sponsors Perl 6 Microgrants (The Perl Foundation), tinyurl.com/2hcjld
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spinclad thanks, i'll work one up 21:07
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moritz I have two ideas about documentation projects... 21:21
1) the specs are written as a diff to perl5, it would be nice to have a non-diff version (at least of some of the specs) 21:22
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moritz especially since perl5 is not very formally specced 21:22
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moritz 2) beginner's tutorial. I don't think the core language will change so much, so you could already start with that 21:23
diakopter moritz: www.learningperl6.com/llama6_proposal.pod brian d foy has recently posted some documentation-driven questions on a list somewhere 21:28
brian_d_f I'm working on the file test operator chapter right now. It's in the SVN but not the webiste yet
moritz so is intended to be both a book and the perldoc pages? 21:30
brian_d_f I'm just writing Learning Perl 6
I might be able to help with some of the perldoc stuff, but it's not my main goal righ tnow 21:31
diakopter brian_d_f: aww, you're writing in pod5...
brian_d_f I'd really like to see a single, definitive source. I think that's supposed to be the synopses
heh, because I have a lot of translators for pod5 already 21:32
and ORA has translators that go from pod5 to their internal system
I'm trying to pretend that pod6 isn't wiki-like so I don't slit my wrists 21:33
Limbic_Region brian_d_f - the synopses, as you know, are still being written. Additionally, some of the stuff pitched over the fence to parrot land are still being worked out
brian_d_f yep, they're still being written :) 21:34
Limbic_Region brian_d_f - looking in docs/perl6 is a great place to see synopses as works in progress
buu brian_d_f: We're actually close enough to start working on learning perl6?
diakopter somebody thinks so, apparently
Limbic_Region brian_d_f - I am not sure if TimToady and @larry are re-thinking this pitch stuff over the wall to parrot but I think they should
brian_d_f um, I don't know if we're close enough
but I am working on it
Limbic_Region since it is obvious that multiple implementations will exist even if the one targeting parrot is "official"
diakopter somebody meaning the sponsor(s)/publisher 21:35
brian_d_f a learning book only covers the 80% useful stuff
Limbic_Region actually, Randal said it much more candidly
brian_d_f and most of that stuff is set: variables, files, rules
moritz what about OO?
Limbic_Region brian_d_f - the biggest thing that I think is going to be hard to write in Learning Perl 6 isn't about the commands and syntax, but more about the philosophy 21:36
brian_d_f there will be some OO stuff, but only user level stuff, not class creation and that other fun stuff
that's Intermediate Perl ^
Limbic_Region disagrees on that point
brian_d_f yep, philosophy is hard
Limbic_Region only because the philosophy of perl 6 has changed
in p5, oo was definately an intermediate book item 21:37
not so in p6 (IMO)
OO is baked in from the get go
and while a great deal of effort is being made to allow you to ignore it
moritz syntax and semantic is (mostly) well specced, but philosophy isn't ;-)
Limbic_Region just about everything can be treated like an object
brian_d_f OO as a topic is not the same as making classes
and that sort of stuff
Limbic_Region *shrug*, I guess
moritz so you have to think for yourself and can't just look it up
brian_d_f i'll see what happens. personally i like the OO stuff 21:38
Limbic_Region that's why I said the philosophy of perl 6 is going to be the hardest part to get right in the learning perl 6 book (which is where it is needed)
brian_d_f it's what we can teach in 350 pages and have people learn in 4 days that matters for Llama 6 though
Limbic_Region there was a lot of years and experience to go on before the first learning perl book
brian_d_f yeah, it's a challenge, but I'm not scared of that 21:39
Limbic_Region wasn't trying to scare you
;-)
brian_d_f and the OO stuff at this level isn't new, just new to Perl 21:40
the book will be online as I write it, so there will be plenty of time for people to make comments :) 21:41
I keep saying I when I mean we (Randal and I)
Limbic_Region I wouldn't worry about that too much
It isn't like Randal will leave anyone wondering about his contributions 21:42
;-)
so out of curiosity, is MMD in or out?
brian_d_f MMD in Llama 6? No idea yet. 21:43
Limbic_Region actually, that should be MMD/MFD I think
since perl 6 will specifically distinguish between methods and subroutines
brian_d_f I'm workign from the back of the book to see what needs to be in the front
haven't thought about that yet. focus focus focus :) 21:44
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Limbic_Region well, I will leave you be then 21:44
brian_d_f we probably won't have method creation in Llama 6 though
Limbic_Region it has been something I have been thinking about for about 2 years myself
brian_d_f i would like to see other beginning Perl 6 books though, written from other perspectivesw 21:45
one book isn't going to work for everyone
Limbic_Region well, the book I am thinking about isn't about perl specifically, nor perl 6
but all actual code is in p5 or p6 (and possibly other languages as comparisons) 21:46
Limbic_Region was supposed to work on said book while his family was in the Philippines but with a little over a week to go it doesn't look like it is going to happen 21:47
all research, lists of ideas to cover, etc but only a chapter or two actually written
moritz Limbic_Region: so you are thinking about a "programming for beginners" book that happens to use perl6? 21:48
Limbic_Region no, not at all
mortiz - it isn't even a beginners book at all
brian_d_f that would be a good book, but also a book on "Perl 6 for Not Beginners"
moritz Limbic_Region: so what's the (imaginary) audience? 21:50
Limbic_Region moritz - primarily self-taught programmers, sys admins suddenly being asked to maintain scripts they didn't right, professional developers that don't have the benefit of a CS degree 21:51
moritz Limbic_Region: I'll read it! ;-)
Limbic_Region s/right/write/
moritz - well, I pitched the idea to O'Reilly over a year ago and we were just about to negotiate a contract when I backed out 21:52
moritz Limbic_Region: why?
Limbic_Region moritz - life intervened (my wife was pregnant with our first daughter)
moritz Limbic_Region: that's a _really_ good reason ;-)
Limbic_Region I'm not in the business of commiting to things I know I can't do - and family comes first
21:52 demq joined
Limbic_Region so I have continued to do research, jot down ideas, organize the arrangement of the chapters, etc 21:53
I talk to Allison and chromatic about it every so often
but writing a book (and doing it right) is hard work that takes a lot of time 21:54
thinking is much easier
;-)
speaking of not having the benefit of a CS degree - does anyone have some introductory links to graph theory? 21:57
zamolxes Limbic_Region: the wolf book is nice ;) 21:58
www.oreilly.com/catalog/maperl/
lambdabot Title: O'Reilly Media -- Bookstore: Mastering Algorithms with Perl
Limbic_Region zamolxes - you misunderstand then 21:59
Limbic_Region owns that book
zamolxes mee too :) . how introductory? 22:00
wikipedia has a lot of stuff, I don't know
Limbic_Region zamolxes - I'm not interested in code at all, rather the theory.
I am trying to turn what I have in my head into something else 22:01
zamolxes - I need a way to take someone who doesn't have anything to relate to
and get them to see a problem in terms of a graph, and how various different graph algorithms can solve the problem they are asking 22:02
zamolxes well most theory starts with the mathematical definition
Limbic_Region zamolxes - turning a problem not presented as a graph into that situation isn't easy
especially for one who never learned it in school
IOW - I don't want to tell you how to do it or show you how I do it, I want you to be able to figure out how to do it ;-) 22:03
the first 2 I can do, the 3rd I am having a hard time with
*shrug* - not like I have a deadline or anything
zamolxes think of tree traversal. you need those every other day 22:05
(nested categories etc)
Limbic_Region hates artificial examples 22:06
zamolxes think of route optimising (everyone trying to plan deliveries for an online delivery business)
Limbic_Region so yeah
perhaps that's the way to go
just pick a few examples and solve it several different ways
zamolxes well i'm thinking these are real world uses, not artificial 22:07
Limbic_Region no, you misunderstand
I was leading in to a compliment
zamolxes i keep doing that
Limbic_Region well, I think that's more my fault than yours.
zamolxes www.ecp6.jussieu.fr/pageperso/bondy.../gtwa.html :)
lambdabot Title: Graph Theory with Applications
Limbic_Region I agree with your examples as good ones that people can relate to rather than an academic one which no one can apply to their real work 22:08
zamolxes++
Limbic_Region hugs zamolxes
zamolxes i just got that link from en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Graph_theory . there are some more interesting books/articles/tutorials listed there 22:11
lambdabot Title: Graph theory - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Limbic_Region I had the wikipedia link already but hadn't gone through it yet
If I can't explain something well enough so my wife can understand it, it isn't ready yet 22:12
zamolxes i guess i mostly 'tree-related-concepts' for iterating the filesystem
Limbic_Region not only is my wife not a tech weenie, english is her 3rd language
zamolxes oh, and states :) 22:13
Limbic_Region state machines, finite automata, oh my 22:14
zamolxes order states/transitions in a e-commerce thing
Limbic_Region ?seen audreyt
lambdabot audreyt is in #haskell and #perl6. I don't know when audreyt last spoke.
Limbic_Region anyone heard from her?
audreyt yeah, a while ago
lambdabot audreyt: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it.
Limbic_Region oh, audreyt - is she ok? 22:15
audreyt I heard that she is working on OSDC.tw slides -- Jifty talk due in 4hrs
Perl 5.10/P6 talk due next day
Limbic_Region oh, well then she should continue working on that and ignoring #perl6 then 22:16
audreyt she's mostly okay. immediate family crisis reached temporary (relative) peace
geoffb I'm glad to hear that's better!
We miss her. Lots. So very good that things are getting better for her. 22:17
geoffb wishes her luck with presentations
Limbic_Region perlbot .ro 22:23
perlbot .ro is Romania
Limbic_Region zamolxes - is english your first language? 22:24
zamolxes Limbic_Region: no, it isn't 22:25
Limbic_Region well, you seem to have done a great job at mastering it
;-) 22:26
zamolxes too many nights on IRC does that to you
diakopter can someone test a (patched to include S26 as html) smartlinks.pl on feather for me? 22:28
zamolxes Limbic_Region: oh, i know a great example. email aliases.
22:28 dunstabulos joined
zamolxes Limbic_Region: imagine wanting to know who can read an email sent to [email@hidden.address] having a huge graph of aliases 22:29
it's a very common request
what possible entry points do you have for this particular mailbox? 22:30
etc
of course this is 'interesting' and 'non academic' just for a sysadmin :)
geoffb Email aliases actually give lots of graphy needs: "Did <user1> get an email sent to <foo>?" "Are there any potential loops in these aliases?" "What is the maximum number of emails that would receive a message sent to one of these lists?" and so on? 22:31
zamolxes right
geoffb commute & 22:32
zamolxes oh, and of course, key signing :) 22:38
diakopter waits for pugs build failure
svnbot6 r15905 | diakopter++ | I don't even know if this compiles, hold onto your britches...
r15905 | diakopter++ | Attempting to make smartlinks.pl emit an html-ish version of S26
r15905 | diakopter++ | eventually to be linked from perlcabal.org/syn/
lambdabot Title: Official Perl 6 Documentation
svnbot6 r15906 | diakopter++ | feather/syn_index.html - supposedly this should be synced, soon... 22:41
pasteling "evalbot_r15904" at 194.145.200.126 pasted "Pugs build failure" (399 lines, 22.2K) at sial.org/pbot/24212 22:45
diakopter there it is
moritz 404 22:46
diakopter yeah... I'm not sure if smartlinks.pl is run on perlcabal.org or on feather and then S\d\d.html are synced by perlcabal.org from feather. 22:47
where "I'm not sure" means "I have no idea" 22:48
hmm, maybe Documentation.pod needs to be updated for smartlinks.pl to run it again. OR, the pugs build needs to be successful? I don't know what broke it :( 22:51
if only I knew what /home/audreyt/pugs/blib/script/p6doc contained 22:53
moritz diakopter: is it not the same as in the pugs repository? 22:54
diakopter oh... :\ 22:55
moritz feels usefully ;-) 22:56
s/ly// 22:57
Juerd diakopter: perlcabal.org *is* feather 22:58
juerd@lanova:~$ host perlcabal.org
perlcabal.org has address 194.145.200.126
juerd@lanova:~$ host feather.perl6.nl
feather.perl6.nl has address 194.145.200.126
moritz virtual_hosts++ ;-) 22:59
23:03 geoffb joined
svnbot6 r15907 | diakopter++ | inconsequential edit, hopefully kick off smartlinks.pl 23:06
23:10 ortmage_ joined
Limbic_Region zamolxes - sorry, was AFK. I have enough examples for now but thanks 23:10
zamolxes :) glad to hear that 23:11
23:26 justatheory joined
dunstabulos why is feather called feather? some sort of parrot reference? 23:26
Limbic_Region dunstabulos - look for the thread called "Perl development server" in perl6.language 23:29
specbot6 r14373 | larry++ | Ranges over enums and such also can use *, suggested by Jonathan Lang++
Limbic_Region dunstabulos - specifically, groups.google.com/group/perl.perl6....4d5049487b 23:31
lambdabot Title: Perl development server - perl.perl6.language | Google Groups, tinyurl.com/2dsp97
23:35 wamiks joined 23:38 marmic joined
dunstabulos Limbic_Region: yeah i was just reading the whole thread 23:38
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