pugscode.org/ | sial.org/pbot/perl6
Set by agentzh on 7 June 2007.
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BenjaminZou Hi, who took part in YACC yesterday? 01:53
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Conrad YAPC? 02:00
postgre yes, yet another perl conference
Conrad was in the morning session
BenjaminZou Yes, YAPC……
dolmans YAPC::Beijing, me. 02:03
if you say about it. 02:04
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BenjaminZou That's it. 02:09
postgre where is agentzh? I forgot to ask his ppt for YAPC yesterday 02:13
amadeus have just come back from Beijing 02:23
amadeus use the wrong id .. 02:24
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postgre 06amadeus01, do you know where ahentzh upload his ppt for YAPC? 02:25
Tene 4amadeus
postgre ok will email agentzh
laye now amadues know as laye
i got his slides on my hiptop 02:26
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laye i think agentzh is still at Beijing now 02:26
postgre can you share it
somewhere on internet? 02:27
laye of course
postgre sure, i only know his email, forgot to ask his tel
laye i can email the sildes to u 02:29
postgre can you upload to a site like perlchina or www.yapc.org.cn? 02:30
laye sure 02:31
postgre thank you:-)
laye you are welcome 02:32
postgre or upload it as attachment at bbs.perlchina.org, so that everyone can view it 02:33
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laye postgre: i'll ask agent himself to post it on bbs.perlchina.org, is it okay? 02:38
svnbot6 r16676 | Darren_Duncan++ | ext/Muldis-DB/ : updated the Muldis-DB license to be the disjunction of the GPL v3 or later and the Affero GPL v3 or later 02:40
dduncan YAPC is now? ... looking ...
laye dduncan: YAPC::Beijing 02:45
dduncan I see now ... it seemed that the NA date was really close, but a bit later ... that explains it 02:46
looking further, there appear to be 3 YAPC in a row ... the Beijing, then NA, then Europe, each a week apart 02:47
or the last is just a planning meeting
no matter
(was looking at yapc.org ) 02:48
lambdabot Title: YAPC
laye wow
wanna see YAPC::NA :-)
dduncan I want to as well, but I can't go this year 02:49
hopefully next year
laye me 2
not really going this year 02:50
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riffraff hi 08:50
Tene Hi! 08:52
mico_ hi! 08:55
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bren1 pugscode.org/ 09:17
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spinclad pugscode.org/ | sial.org/pbot/perl6 | ?eval [~] <m oo se> | We do Haskell, too | > reverse (show (scanl (*) 1 [1..] !! 4)) 09:40
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spinclad ?eval [~] <m ỏỏ se> 10:35
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evalbot_r16676 "mỏỏse" 10:35
spinclad [moose with coathangers] 10:36
moritz mosse!
does gaal hilight on moose? 10:37
@seen gall
lambdabot I haven't seen gall.
moritz @seen gaal
lambdabot I saw gaal leaving #perl6 and #haskell 9h 44m 11s ago, and .
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fglock updated pugs.blogs.com/pugs/2007/06/kindaperl6_proj.html 12:10
lambdabot Title: Pugs: "KindaPerl6" project roadmap
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moritz fglock: If you want to link to a version of the roadmap that gets updated when you edit the .pod file in the repository, consider linking here instead: moritz.faui2k3.org/pugs/v6/docs/kp6...p.pod.html 12:27
lambdabot Title: kp6-roadmap
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moritz fglock: if you want to link to an immutable version, the old link is just fine 12:28
fglock moritz: I'll update - thanks!
moritz fglock: or I could redirect from the old to new one if you don't want to change the link but get the new version
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fglock hmm - redirecting is better, because the blog is copied to several other places 12:29
moritz ok, I'll make redirect then
btw you created 833 hits so far
fglock nice - I wished people give more feedback 12:30
I need a project review 12:31
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moritz I'm certainly interested, but the project looks somewho scary (and I guess I'm not the only one who thinks so) 12:32
fglock: maybe you could write something very concrete like "look at file $foo.pm: this is the perl emitter. Please write the same file as $bar.pm so that it emmits $lang"
and a few hints how to do that 12:33
and once people start working on it, the will look at the broader picture
fglock moritz: my problem is with the "broader picture" itself - I wished more people could review the general idea, before putting more work in the details 12:39
moritz fglock: you should say that in the (or a new) blog post 12:40
fglock you are right - I didn't say that 12:41
moritz and perhaps start a discussion on perlmonks.org
and if you are crazy, you ask on ask.slashdot.org for comments ;) 12:42
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moritz @tell agentzh I converted your chinese translation of S01 to HTML using Pod::Tree::HTML, and the output is horribly garbeled <moritz.faui2k3.org/pugs/docs/zh-cn/...d.html> - do you know any pod2html converter that can handle your pod? 12:58
lambdabot Consider it noted.
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edenc cmarcelo: boo 13:10
fglock edenc: ola 13:11
edenc fglock: sup :)
fglock: I've been looking at the kp6-roadmap 13:12
fglock: using Moose on Milestone 1? 13:13
fglock edenc: you mean "phase I"? no, it's written in MiniPerl6 13:15
edenc fglock: phase III - milestone 1
hmm 13:16
cmarcelo edenc, fglock: moose!
fglock that's MiniPerl6, too. It's actually finished
moritz moose! 13:17
edenc fglock: I read status: 'Not Started'
fglock I finihed milestones 1 and 2 already
yes, the roadmap commit was lost
cmarcelo: moose!
edenc: I'll update it
cmarcelo what are you mooses upto recently? 13:18
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fglock cmarcelo: planning next kp6 version; and looking for ways to expand the team :) 13:20
cmarcelo: also looking for a code review 13:21
svnbot6 r16677 | fglock++ | [kp6] updated roadmap with finished milestones
cmarcelo fglock: a code review? 13:22
fglock cmarcelo: s/code/architecture/
svn.pugscode.org/pugs/v6/docs/kp6.jpg 13:23
cmarcelo is hostage of a lab assignment: implementing altivec SIMD instructions in a PowerPC simulator... until semester ends. :-/ 13:24
fglock cmarcelo: I wonder the architecture should be reused for 6-in-6, or can it be improved 13:25
cmarcelo fglock: oh, I remember (an old) a version of that diagram.
fglock yes, we worked on it in YAPC::SA
cmarcelo did you gather people interest since the blog post? 13:27
fglock cmarcelo: I guess people are waiting to be asked for specific contributions 13:28
I'm working on it 13:29
cmarcelo moritz: re-moose, what you've been doing recently? 13:30
fglock I need the architecture review before making a detailed plan, because it will be harder to change it later 13:31
cmarcelo I see. 13:33
?seen audreyt 13:34
lambdabot audreyt is in #perl6 and #haskell. I don't know when audreyt last spoke.
cmarcelo @seen audreyt
lambdabot audreyt is in #perl6 and #haskell. I don't know when audreyt last spoke.
cmarcelo :-( 13:35
thoughtpolice morning. :) 13:36
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cmarcelo oh, morning here too :) 13:45
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toyam hi 13:51
fglock: does kindaperl6 run itself? 13:53
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fglock toyam: not exactly - there are 3 separate systems: the compiler, the backend, and the language in which the compiler is written 13:55
the backend is what 'runs' - it is the 'virtual machine' 13:56
kp6 uses perl5 as the virtual machine
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toyam but not the compiler? 13:56
fglock the compiler is also compiled to perl5, and runs in perl5 13:57
toyam i would like to have a look at the AST to get a better idea of how it works
how do i run kp6-dump-ast.pl
fglock one sec
toyam: excuse me, I need to fix a library name first 14:00
toyam cool
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fglock toyam: perl kp6-perl5.pl --ast < t/kp6/03-scalar.t | perltidy 14:03
gaal moritz: you moosed?
toyam fglock: thanks 14:05
svnbot6 r16678 | fglock++ | [kp6] kp6-dump-ast.pl is deprecated - use kp6-perl5.pl --ast instead
fglock toyam: you will notice a ' pad => ..., ' node, which is a closure; it is not properly dumped yet 14:07
toyam okay, let me rephrase my first question: does kp6 compile itself?
fglock toyam: not yet - it is still compiled with a previous version, which was called mp6 14:10
this allows kp6 to have unfixed bugs, which is good for development
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fglock s/unfixed bugs/unimplemented features/ 14:11
toyam sounds like a plan
fglock mp6 is under v6/v6-MiniPerl6/ 14:12
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fglock toyam: there are 2 drawings under v6/docs/, showing the kp6 and mp6 internal architecture; you can start with mp6 which is simpler 14:18
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toyam fglock: what is the format of the AST dump? 14:59
PIL2?
is it documented?
fglock toyam: it is just an object tree; there is some documentation here: svn.pugscode.org/pugs/v6/v6-MiniPer...l6-ast.pod 15:01
toyam so if I wanted to add the missing Pad bit, where would I start 15:02
fglock kp6 ast has a few more details; this is the current spec (as Haskell code): svn.pugscode.org/pugs/src/Pugs/AST/...ternals.hs 15:03
toyam: you can start by copying the pod file to the kp6 directory
hmm - Lit::Code already has pad 15:05
toyam: it does need corrections
toyam: do you have a pugs commit bit? 15:06
toyam nope
fglock please give me a mail address for sending an invitation 15:07
toyam in the docs dir? 15:08
fglock yes
hmm - I can't login to invite.pugscode.org/ 15:13
lambdabot Title: Login
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thoughtpolice fglock: if you can't get him an invite I think commitbit should be loaded for me 15:16
fglock thoughtpolice: yes, please 15:17
I'll figure my problem later
lumi Maybe we need a cli for commitbit invites
obra ...we need feather to not have horrible IO issues :/ 15:18
lumi That too
gaal I'm not managing to login either. /me cancels own request to prevent others' form thrashing... 15:19
obra I think it just let me log in
do we have an email for toyam?
gaal isn't a cli for commitbit invites "just" a RESTful post? 15:20
obra gaal: plus a login attempt, but I presumed that meant a local cli
thoughtpolice hm commitbit loaded for me fine.
obra anyway, I'm in just ine and could grant commit bits if anyone would like one today
gaal ah, that's something I always wondered about in Audrey's RHOX presentation.. where creds were hiding 15:21
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obra gaal: that depends on how you configure jifty 15:22
in general, we're using the authentication::password plugin, which does cookie auth
but we've also done HTTP basic
gaal I think POST (/usr/bin/POST that is) has HTTP basic 15:23
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obra toyam: can you hand me an email address I can send a commit bit to? 15:23
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toyam sure, if i put it in the channel, will it show up on irc logs 15:24
?
b_jonas toyam: write it as a private message to obra
toyam sorry was having trouble registering my nick - sorted now 15:25
fglock lunch &
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svnbot6 r16679 | toyam++ | Added toyam (me). 15:39
r16680 | toyam++ | Added kp6 AST doc (from mp6).
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fglock toyam: that is the AST as returned by the grammar; it is further processed depending on what the backend language needs 16:15
moritz toyam++ # work on kp6/mp6
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fglock hmm - the regex AST is being processed too early; this could be refactored 16:16
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svnbot6 r16681 | fglock++ | [kp6] updated plan - the regex-to-procedural transformation should be done by 16:30
r16681 | fglock++ | an optional plugin; this will make it easier to reuse native regex libs (such as
r16681 | fglock++ | PGE for the Parrot backend, and PCR for the Perl 5 backend); the plain mp6 backend
r16681 | fglock++ | is still supported.
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gaal pugscode.org/ | nopaste: sial.org/pbot/perl6 | ?eval [~] <m oo se> | We do Haskell, too | > reverse . show $ foldl1 (*) [1..4] 17:34
gaal (golfing the haskell gives more room to document the purpose of the nopaste url) 17:35
moritz > reverse . show $ foldl1 (*) [1..4]
lambdabot "42"
gaal of course, Perl doesn't need the show, so: 17:39
?eval reverse [*] 1..4
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evalbot_r16681 "42" 17:40
Juerd wolverian: Please remove personal files from feather. 17:41
fglock I'm working on a request for review of kp6 architecture, which I want to send to the Perl 6 compiler lists. I'd like to send a first draft to some people to review the text. 17:44
gaal you want a review on the review request? 17:45
I'd say off hand it's too long :) 17:46
fglock gaal: yes 17:47
gaal: you mean the request should be short?
I was planning to explain what kp6 is 17:48
moritz fglock: you can provide a link for those who don't know
b_jonas meh
moritz fglock: many perl6 hackers already now it, i presume
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gaal I think it should be short enough that you can Just Send It, because you want many people to Just Read It 17:48
b_jonas evalj: |.":!4
evalj b_jonas: 42
fglock gaal: makes sense 17:49
gaal and, well, of course, then respond to it :)
b_jonas evalj: |.":*/>:i.4 NB. in case you don't use the factorial operator
evalj b_jonas: 42
gaal evalj. oh my goodness
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b_jonas though I guess you can skip some whitespace from the perl and haskell ones as well 17:50
gaal anyone got an aplbot handy? put that good ol' unicode to use
it's not good to shave whitespace off haskell, in general, because it can interfere with template haskell
b_jonas ?eval reverse [*] 1 +>> ^4
evalbot_r16681 Error: ␤Unexpected ">"
b_jonas ?eval reverse [*] 1 +<< ^4 17:51
evalbot_r16681 Error: ␤Unexpected end of input␤expecting block, "\\", variable name, ">>" or "<<"
b_jonas not shorter than 1..4 so doesn't matter
?eval reverse[*]1..4
gaal hmm why +<< though?
evalbot_r16681 Error: ␤Unexpected "1"␤expecting term postfix or operator
moritz b_jonas: I think hype operators on only one site of an op are NYI
gaal ?eval reverse [*] ^5
evalbot_r16681 "0"
gaal huh?
b_jonas gaal: that's why
gaal oh, 0..
b_jonas moritz: I see, thanks 17:52
well,
evalj: |. ": * / 1 + i. 4
evalj b_jonas: 42
b_jonas would probably translate to apl as 8 characters
one for each word above
and that's if you don't use factorial 17:53
gaal what's the reverse operator here, |. ?
b_jonas which I think at least some apls have
yes, |. is reverse
so
gaal is there a mnemonic for that?
b_jonas evalj: |. ": ! 4
evalj b_jonas: 42
b_jonas would prolly be 4
but I don't know apl much
gall: if you want mnemonics, use apl not an ascii language :) 17:54
but | looks like a mirror
gaal heh, in that case I'd expect .|. to be reverse...
brb
b_jonas apparently the apl equivalent of |. (reverse/rotate) is a circle with a vertical bar through that goes out of the circle on both sides 17:57
but of course even more golf would be 17:59
evalj: 42
evalj b_jonas: 42
b_jonas just two characters
gaal a circle with a vertical bar? that sounds like (1+sqrt(5))/2 18:01
(phi)
φ, U+03c6 18:02
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b_jonas yep 18:03
it's called "circle stile" by an apl manual
the character that is, not the function 18:04
rindolf Hi all.
Hi b_jonas
b_jonas hi
moritz helo ;) 18:06
rindolf Hi moritz
I'm now wrestling with Apache Ant and Apache fop.
On Mandriva cooker.
moritz brian d foy doesn't seems to to know that perl 6 filehandles autochomp ;) 18:07
see use.perl.org/article.pl?sid=07/06/1...p;from=rss
lambdabot Title: use Perl | Learning Perl 6 by brian d foy
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moritz and I don't know where he found the 'uniq' method 18:10
b_jonas moritz: in ruby? 18:11
moritz b_jonas: perhaps
it's not in S29
gaal &uniq := sub { eval "nub" :lang<haskell> } 18:13
(no, ffi doesn't really look like that) 18:14
(though eval<haskell> does)
fglock gaal: may I send you my first draft? 18:15
gaal sure! got my email? 18:16
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fglock got it 18:17
riffraff hi
gaal I got it too. Phone call right now but will read shortly. 18:19
fglock thanks!
moritz fglock: reply sent 18:25
fglock moritz: working on it 18:27
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fglock I'm afraid people will have to study kp6 deeply before commenting on design decisions; I wonder how to make this easier 18:42
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Juerd wolverian: Please gzip log files (~/.irssi) 18:52
fglock: It can be made easier by having more schematic specifications. 18:53
fglock: I once drew a quick visualisation of how the postfix whitespace rules work, and finally the person I drew it for understood why they were needed. 18:54
A table of operators, a table of sigils, are easier to grok than bullet point lists with full English sentences.
I once started a project for this, but quickly started lacking tuits. 18:55
Look for quickref. 18:56
fglock Juerd: I could make a higher level view of svn.pugscode.org/pugs/v6/docs/kp6.jpg
Juerd Views are needed at all levels.
We lack people with documentation skills and tuits :)
Nice diagram by the way! 18:57
What did you use to sketch that?
fglock it's OmniGraffle 18:58
Juerd Damn that prorietary single platform ultimately cool software! :)
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fglock yes, unfortunately 18:59
Juerd Every time I see such a nice diagram, I ask people how they made it, and I think "Please don't say OmniGraffle... Please let it be something that runs under Linux"
And every time they say OmniGraffle :(
I'd pay for OG if it ran on Linux.
fglock gaal: you were right - "it's too long" - I'm getting there 19:03
gaal fglock: just finished the phone call and read the moosage - actually it doesn't seem too long now :) 19:05
Tene I have about a week free before I start my new job. 19:06
gaal will formulate some more response, give me a few minutes
Tene should have plenty of tuits.
fglock gaal: I have a longer version :)
gaal can you send it also pleasE?
s/E/e/
fglock it is under editing - but I'll send it as-is 19:07
Tene dunno what I should moose on, though. 19:08
rindolf Can you guys check tmp.askask.com/2007/06/XML-RSS-1.30.tar.gz, please? 19:09
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Patterner All tests successful. Files=30, Tests=362, 7 wallclock secs 19:15
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gaal fglock: obra's very right 19:21
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thoughtpolice hm, nice netsplit 19:27
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svnbot6 r16682 | fglock++ | [kp6] added 'hello.pl' 19:28
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wolverian Juerd, the songs? done. sorry about that. they were ours though (our band, that is) :) 20:32
moritz fglock: your current draft is _much_ better than the first one ;) 20:45
fglock moritz: thanks for the help :) 20:46
moritz you're welcome
spinclad fglock: if you're still looking for pre-review, i'll take a look. 20:48
fglock spinclad: sent 20:49
spinclad thx 20:50
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gaal fglock: s/only question you have/only input you're interested in hearing/, in my email 21:05
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fglock gaal: ok 21:06
gaal hee, i just corrected a possible false impression about what false impression i think you should avoid, during a response to a request for review of a request for review. 21:08
moritz *LOL* 21:09
gaal: would you mind if I add that line to my fortune file? *g* 21:10
spinclad sweet
gaal It would make me feel fortunate if you did
moritz [x] done 21:11
fglock heh 21:12
gaal feels fortunate. and sleepy. no relation; but the immediate course of action is plotted. 21:13
gaal waves :)
moritz sex? *SCNR*
sleep well ;)
fglock home & 21:19
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Tene laughs. 21:26
gaal++ 21:27
Juerd wolverian: As a rule of thumb, assume that only plain text files/communication are allowed for non-perl stuff :) 21:29
wolverian: In other cases, if you really have no other option, ask me.
wolverian: It's not about copyright or anything, by the way :)
thoughtpolice Juerd: did you get my email (at all)? 21:31
Juerd thoughtpolice: Yes, got it
thoughtpolice Juerd: would they happen to be in russian? 21:32
Juerd thoughtpolice: Err... no. If you tried Russian, sorry, it didn't work :)
thoughtpolice Juerd: er, I meant the reply's 21:33
Juerd I hope not
RT is configured to send replies in Dutch and English 21:34
thoughtpolice I suppose that's what it is. :) i'm not much on being able to distinguish many foreign languages.
Juerd Russian has a different alphabet 21:35
They letters don't look like the ones we're using now.
Well, some do. But it's easy to see the difference
thoughtpolice: Check your mail 21:37
thoughtpolice Juerd: ah, thanks. :) 21:38
Juerd thoughtpolice: You're welcome :) 21:39
21:42 REPLeffe1t joined 21:44 diakopter_afk is now known as diakopter 21:55 Psyche^ joined 21:57 buubot joined
wolverian Juerd, ah, okay. makes sense. 22:00
Juerd, I just tend to forget to remove stuff I've dcced :)
Juerd wolverian: dcc into a temp dir, and set up a cronjob? 22:01
wolverian not a bad idea 22:02
22:12 Psyche^ is now known as Patterner 22:36 weinigLap joined
nothingmuch w^H/w 25 22:41
23:00 buubot joined 23:10 Limbic_Region joined 23:12 weinigLap_ joined 23:13 weinigLap_ joined 23:21 buubot joined
buu buubot: echo 1+1 23:22
buubot 1+1
buu Whups. 23:23
Tene buubot: explode 23:24
23:30 gaal joined 23:31 lumi joined 23:40 buetow joined 23:41 marmic joined 23:44 larsen_ joined, dwave joined 23:48 weinigLap joined 23:53 Jmax joined

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