pugscode.org/ | nopaste: sial.org/pbot/perl6 | ?eval [~] <m oo se> | We do Haskell, too | > reverse . show $ foldl1 (*) [1..4] | irclog: irc.pugscode.org/
Set by diakopter on 11 July 2007.
12:52 ilogger2 joined 13:07 wer joined 13:15 kroo joined 13:19 kroo left 13:25 theorb joined 13:44 snake__ joined 13:45 snake__ left, funktio joined 13:51 vel joined
masak I think I'll do that, on second thought. 'f anyone says oscon, they're talking about OSCON :) 14:02
pugs_svnbot r17059 | masak++ | trunk: 14:07
: OSCON is now case-sensitive
diff: dev.pugscode.org/changeset/17059
lambdabot Title: Changeset 17059 - Pugs - Trac
14:10 vel left
pugs_svnbot r17060 | fglock++ | trunk: 14:16
: [kp6] AST-dumper now shows a detailed ::Pad, including lexical declarations
diff: dev.pugscode.org/changeset/17060
lambdabot Title: Changeset 17060 - Pugs - Trac
14:18 wer left, ewr joined 14:20 cmarcelo joined 14:23 vel joined 14:39 polettix joined 14:47 prism joined 14:48 hanson122 joined, pifuruan joined 14:52 vel left 14:56 daxim joined 14:59 vel joined 15:03 pifuruan left, hanson122 left 15:04 hanson122 joined, rindolf joined 15:11 hanson122 left, hanson122 joined 15:19 hanson122 left
obra TimToady: ping 15:26
pmichaud hello, obra 15:27
obra pmichaud: hi! 15:28
how's things?
pmichaud they're good
15:30 ewr left, ewr joined
moritz masak: IMHO false positives are far worse thatn false negatives, so I'll leave it as it is exept on indivual request 15:31
lambdabot moritz: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it.
moritz masak: of course you are welcome to edit abbr.dat of course ;)
TimToady obra: pong 15:32
I slept longer than I thought...
obra TimToady: good morning! 15:33
TimToady blurg
obra take your time, but whenever you feel like it, we'd love to drag you out to brunch
TimToady I'm more or less ready 15:34
obra ok. I think we'd be good to go in ~10 minutes or so. Anything in particular you feel like, foodwise? Easy options at this hour include, crepes, eggs, waffles, pancakes, sandwiches, salads, burritos. 15:35
diakopter mmmmmm so hungry 15:36
15:39 offby1 joined
TimToady Let's see, I'm allergic to crepes, eggs, waffles, pancakes, sandwiches, and burritos. That makes it easy. 15:44
Juerd Ruby's array operator "-" is useful here. Does Perl 6 have something like it yet? 15:50
['crepes', 'eggs', 'waffles', 'pancakes', 'sandwitches', 'salads', 'burritos'] - ['crepes', 'eggs', 'waffles', 'pancakes', 'sandwiches', 'burritos'] results in ['salads'] 15:51
integral set difference, or some other form of difference?
Juerd I'm not familiar with set jargon. 15:52
Does difference include addition?
integral I was just wondering if order is significant
Juerd It's not 15:53
Maybe @foo.without:LIST in Perl 6
15:55 vel left
Juerd @foo.=with:LIST would be the same as @foo.push:LIST :) 15:55
lambdabot Unknown command, try @list
wolverian Juerd, there are set operators already, I think.
Juerd wolverian: Sets don't have duplicates, right?
wolverian multisets do. normal sets don't.
Juerd Blergh. 15:56
I hate that I have to learn all this stuff to use Perl 6.
diakopter well, to follow maths-english, it would be written ['crepes', 'eggs', 'waffles', 'pancakes', 'sandwitches', 'salads', 'burritos']['crepes', 'eggs', 'waffles', 'pancakes', 'sandwitches', 'salads', 'burritos'] or $a$b if $a and $b are Array objects
Juerd wolverian: Is a multiset an array without order? 15:57
diakopter er, faulty paste there in the second []
wolverian Juerd, basically, yes.
Juerd, this probably falls under the underspecced libraries synopsis, though.. 15:58
Juerd wolverian: Is the lack of order ever needed or useful? (i.e. why not just use an array?)
wolverian Juerd, equality.
Juerd sort(@foo) ~~ sort(@bar) 15:59
Insufficient?
wolverian shrug. haskell doesn't have multisets either, I think.
Juerd A whole new datatype, with new operators, new everything, seems a bit much if it's just for equality testing. I can't remember when I last needed to compare two hashes or two arrays or two lists. 16:00
wolverian well, sets are pretty important, I think. multisets not so.
Juerd I don't see the point of sets either, if we already have hashes.
For all I care, we could have a kind of hash in which every value is forced to 1 :) 16:01
16:01 BinGOs joined
Juerd Until someone shows me why a set is more useful, of course :) 16:01
I'm willing to learn stuff, if it's pragmatic and not just academically more correct.
wolverian the keys of a hash are a set. sets are not more useful than hashes, they're a component of hashes.
or a way to analyse them. 16:02
wolverian shrugs again
Juerd wolverian: Does the Perl language need a datatype for sets, given hashes?
Not talking about internals, now.
wolverian perl5 didn't need 'em :)
s/didn't/doesn't/ 16:03
Juerd Sets and set operators, to me, look like language bloat. It's something that could and should be done in a module IMO.
wolverian I think that's the plan.
Juerd That's a relief
wolverian well, okay, 'Set' is mentioned in the built-in immutable types 16:04
perlcabal.org/syn/S02.html#Immutable_types
lambdabot Title: S02
wolverian yes, it's a more typeful approach than perl5 16:10
hopefully it won't be too awkward.. we still have implicit coercions, afaik :)
16:25 greentea joined 16:27 Eidolos joined
Gothmog_ A hashtable ist just a way to efficiently implement a set or multiset, with values in {0, 1} or {0, 1, 2, ...}, respectively. You may think of sets and multisets as special cases of a hashtable. 16:34
16:35 funktio left, offby1 left
masak Gothmog_: the 0 values are not necessary if you delete kv pairs instead of zeroing them out 16:36
probably makes searches and stuff easier, too 16:37
16:41 ewr left, ewr joined 16:51 vel joined
Gothmog_ Yeah, of course. I just thought it would be more clear. 16:58
17:01 vel_ joined, vel left 17:04 funktio joined 17:12 mr_ank joined 17:20 Blwood_ joined 17:21 mr_ank left 17:22 mr_ank joined 17:33 vel_ left 17:37 mr_ank left, mr_ank joined 17:40 Blwood joined 17:46 Blwood_ left 17:48 Psyche^ joined 17:52 cmarcelo left 17:53 ewr left, ewr joined 18:02 Psyche^ is now known as Patterner 18:09 cmarcelo joined 18:10 bonesss joined 18:14 rlb3_ joined 18:17 aindilis joined, rlb3_ left, rlb3 joined 18:21 rlb3_ joined, rlb3 left
TimToady See S02:829 for p6's take on Sets and Bags and their relationship to hashes. Pretty much exactly what you folks were reinventing here... 18:22
SamB wonders if that means it's a good idea or not 18:24
amnesiac TimToady, Bags as Counted Sets? 18:27
TimToady yes 18:28
amnesiac ok.
TimToady or Sets as Bags that can only count in Bool
amnesiac right 18:29
TimToady wonders if people can't even read as far as S03, how are they ever going to get to S13... 18:30
s/3/2
Juerd still has rereading synopses on his todo list. 18:31
amnesiac TimToady, because.... of lack of REAL interest, or probably too "deep" for them.
integral Tablet, capsule or syrup (or suppository for the continent) forms would be handy
TimToady course, if people actually did read them and comment, we'd have to change 'em all again :)
Juerd amnesiac: Or plain lack of tuits and concentration.
And the threshold gets higher as Perl 6 gets more complex 18:32
amnesiac concentration is part of interest, if you have no interest, reading them by "force" is having no concentration at all.
well at least, I can't concentrate if I'm reading something I don't want to.
18:33 Jmax joined, bonesss left
integral at somepoint "perl6doc Bag" "perl6doc Set" will be nice 18:33
Juerd amnesiac: If I don't want to read them, why would I have it on my todo list? :) 18:34
amnesiac Juerd, agreed, that's my point :P
Juerd What exactly is your point? :)
A question?
amnesiac integral, thing is... a Bag and a Set are abstract concepts, or you mean how they will be implemented?
18:34 pmurias joined
amnesiac Juerd, oh my answer is TimToady's question about why people doesn't read above S02. 18:34
integral amnesiac: I thought they were interfaces 18:35
18:35 funktio left
amnesiac integral, A Bag and a Set is a form of representation of a data collection, with some constraints. 18:37
18:37 weinig joined
TimToady need to distinguish values from containers 18:37
amnesiac TimToady, as for the relation ship of values and Bag/Sets? 18:40
eerr, relationship of data collection and Bag/Sets?
TimToady sets and bags are immutable values. a KeySet can represent one set at a time, but when you change it, it's representing a different set 18:41
18:43 dduncan joined
wolverian yeah, I need to read more than just the names of the types sometime.. :) 18:45
I like Blob.. 18:47
TimToady, do you have any interface sketches for the basic types? 18:48
TimToady no, that would be a good thing for someone to work on
amnesiac sketches?
TimToady there might be some of it in Prelude.pm, but I think it's mostly in Haskell 18:49
amnesiac errr I mean, interface sketches? how's that?
TimToady to the extent that there is anythin
well, they'd be roles in p6
wolverian yeah, I meant role interfaces.. :)
TimToady nap & 18:52
amnesiac gnite 18:53
dduncan its a mid-day nap, afaik 18:54
18:59 jisom joined 19:04 ewr left 19:05 ewr joined, Belaf joined 19:07 rindolf left 19:14 bonesss joined 19:24 Aankhen`` joined 19:47 Blwood left 19:51 fglock joined 20:16 idiotmax left, idiotmax joined, ewr left, ewr joined 20:17 idiotmax left, idiotmax joined
pugs_svnbot r17061 | fglock++ | trunk: 20:21
: [kp6] added Visitor::Global - looks up lexical variables; undeclared vars are then looked up in GLOBAL (unfinished)
diff: dev.pugscode.org/changeset/17061
lambdabot Title: Changeset 17061 - Pugs - Trac
20:28 weinig left
wolverian huh, svk 2.0.1's signatures file is corrupt, or I have a bad Module::Signature, or something 20:30
Aankhen`` Shhh.
wolverian well, sent off a cpan testers report. 20:32
those aren't very helpful if it's a local bug though :/
Aankhen`` Shhhh! 20:33
20:44 vel joined 20:47 fglock left, fglock joined 20:51 weinig joined 21:01 aindilis left, vel left 21:03 vel joined 21:05 aindilis joined
obra TimToady: what sounds tasty for dinner? 21:11
fglock obra: hey 21:15
lambdabot fglock: You have 3 new messages. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read them.
21:17 turrepurre joined
obra hey fglock. how goes? 21:17
pugs_svnbot r17062 | fglock++ | trunk:
: [kp6] - GLOBAL/lexical lookup is decided at compile-time
: - say() works inside BEGIN blocks
diff: dev.pugscode.org/changeset/17062
obra how's the hacking?
lambdabot Title: Changeset 17062 - Pugs - Trac
fglock obra: now in kp6 phase 4 :) 21:18
obra nice.
roadmap updated?
fglock working on the runtime infrastructure
obra cool
21:19 vel left
fglock yes, I'd like to discuss it with you when possible 21:19
TimToady hmm, most things sound tasty. My wife married me because I'd eat almost anything... :/ 21:20
obra that's not cause for a ":/"
fglock: likely tomorrow or monday or starting tonight by email is best
TimToady: light or heavy? 21:21
"Would you prefer a light or heavy meal" to avoid the horrible pun potential.
TimToady water you talking about?
obra groans 21:22
obra remembers the mantra 'don't taunt the Larry. He taunts back'
TimToady oh, somewhere about medium-light would be good
obra nearby, we've got more japanese, thai, brazilian, bar-and-grill, burritos, sandwiches-and-salads. korean. decent chinese. decent american chinese. 21:23
I suspect we couldn't get into the good tapas place in finite time.
obra consults kaia 21:24
Mary Chung's could work. Slightly americanized chinese but quite tasty. ~famous in MIT circles. 21:25
TimToady that would be fine by me
obra excellent. should probably head out in 10-15 minutes to avoid being rushed. 21:26
unless that's too much of a rush on this end. ;) 21:27
21:28 ewr left, ewr joined
fglock obra: mail sent 21:36
pmurias fglock: hi 21:37
fglock pmurias: hi
got say() working inside BEGIN 21:38
GLOBAL is not imported; it's looked up instead
pmurias looking at the changes.. 21:40
looks good 21:41
21:44 Limbic_Region joined
fglock I wonder if "global" regexes like ws() should be defined in GLOBAL 21:45
pmurias i seem to remember vagly GLOBAL is organised into many sections... or was it the Prelude 21:46
fglock probably not becuse of method vs. sub
pmurias should ws be in a base Grammar? 21:47
fglock regexes should be defined in a class, under the current architecture
pmurias *shoudn't
fglock yes
pmurias sorry, i'm typing strangly because it's late for me 21:48
21:50 jisom_ joined
pmurias i'll better go to sleep than, bye& 21:50
21:50 pmurias left, penk joined 21:51 Limbic_Region left 21:52 diakopter sets mode: -o diakopter 21:54 hakobe_ joined 22:05 Limbic_Region joined 22:06 Belaf left 22:07 jisom left 22:09 Blwood joined 22:13 Blwood left, Blwood joined 22:14 greentea left 22:19 prism left 22:32 fglock left 22:40 ewr left, ewr joined 22:44 thorat joined
devbot6 dev: Ticket #26 (defect created): [BUG] 'dmake' broken on Win32 with GHC 6.6.1 <dev.pugscode.org/ticket/26> 23:13
diakopter maxcdo: you around? 23:14
23:16 mako132_ joined 23:18 bonesss left 23:23 bonesss joined 23:33 pro21ms4 joined 23:34 mako132_ left 23:39 vel joined 23:46 Blwood left 23:51 ewr left, ewr joined

Powered by Cro and the Raku® Programming Language.

Please report any issues / comments / feature requests as an issue on App::Raku::Log.

Thank you!