pugscode.org/ | nopaste: sial.org/pbot/perl6 | ?eval [~] <m oo se> | We do Haskell, too | > reverse . show $ foldl1 (*) [1..4] | irclog: irc.pugscode.org/
Set by diakopter on 11 July 2007.
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agjal good night 02:37
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moritz_ good morning, lambdamoose ;) 08:57
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ruoso fglock, about scopes... 15:08
one thing I just reminded is that it is expected that the scope can be pushed and popped explicitly
perl5 does it, for instance... 15:09
you have a macro to push and pop the scope
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fglock { ... } 15:09
ruoso in vm terms, I mean
not in language terms
so for every type of scope, it's ok to expect an explicit declaratino of a push or pop 15:10
when declaring a context variable
fglock $inner := $outer.inner; ...; $inner.DESTROY
ruoso yep...
but that also for the other kinds of scopes... 15:11
$contextinner := $contextouter.inner; ...; $contextinner.destroy
theorbtwo ruoso: I note that requirement of perl5 has been a reason for a lot of memory leaks in XS historically, and one of the ideas for perl6 when the project was first announced (back in the dim elder days) was to get away from that to make writing XS-equiv easier.
ruoso theorbtwo, but how do you implement it without explicit scope manipulation? 15:12
theorbtwo ruoso: Fuck if I know. 15:13
ruoso heh
theorbtwo The idea was that the supermagical gc would obliviate the need for XS writers to care so much. 15:14
ruoso ah.. yeah... the trace gc...
but this is not completely scope-related...
p5 requires that because it only destroys the variables when you pop the scope.. 15:15
in yap6, otoh, the variable is destroyed immediatly if it reaches refcount 0
anyway, I'm not still confortable with trace gc..
I like things being deterministic
the thing in Perl 6 is the new types of scope 15:16
which makes a new set of possible stacks for symbol-name-resolution
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ruoso fglock, I got it... 15:19
if you place before GlobalScope a hash for the twigils
you can represent the other scope types...
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fglock hmm 15:20
ruoso then you'll have
MainScopeManager{*}{A::b} 15:21
for a global variable
and you can have a precedence list for scope types 15:23
like
you first look at "my", than at "context", than at "temp", and finally at "global"
unless the twigil is defined... which makes you look directly to that scope... 15:25
hmmm 15:26
maybe I'm wrong...
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ruoso in which synopsis is the definition of the variable scope types ? 15:31
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[particle] looks like S04, but it's somewhat messy imo 15:34
fglock I think most of the info is in the mail logs 15:36
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pmurias fglock: why is GlobalScoper required, wouldn't an implicit 'use GLOBAL' be cleaner? 16:12
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ruoso pmurias, GlobalScope is not GLOBAL 16:16
GLOBAL is a namespace entry
pmurias ruoso: i don't claim it is 16:20
GlobalScope is i guess nessesary for 'no strict'
fglock pmurias: GlobalScope is just an specialized Scope - it's not really necessary 16:21
it's just an experiment for now
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fglock s/an/a/ 16:21
1st 16:22
i'm doing some experiments with interpreters (as opposed to VM) 16:23
pmurias fglock: interpreters such as perl5 or such as in bash 16:24
?
s/in//
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fglock such as perl5 16:30
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pmurias fglock: are there other major things slowing down the perl5 backend then the slow dispatch? 16:33
fglock there is the Container object overhead 16:34
pmurias (have you seen misc/cache.pl?) 16:35
fglock yes - have you tested it? 16:36
pmurias in kp6?
i could try to integrate it 16:37
fglock pmurias: even if we get to MiniPerl6 speed, this is still slow
but it would help for now 16:38
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fglock we could focus on the compiler again, instead of worrying about backends 16:38
pmurias fglock: i think it shouldn't be too hard to beat the mp6 based compiler 16:39
we have better parse times, and the compiler does very little work besides parsing for now
fglock re little work - compiling kp6 generates a *lot* of data 16:42
coffee & 16:44
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pugs_svn r19221 | pmurias++ | [kp6] changed variable_names to lexicals in the libkp6 Pad 16:46
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pugs_svn r19222 | pmurias++ | [kp6] removing bit of an experiment which got commited accidently 16:54
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pugs_svn r19223 | pmurias++ | [kp6] start of method caching (not fully integrated) 17:56
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pugs_svn r19224 | pmurias++ | [kp6-perl5] autofetch and boxed methods work although we don't get a performance benefit 18:10
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jjore-w ?eval ^..^ 18:41
aw. 18:42
eval: ^..^
!eval ^..^
shoot.
Auzon pugs: ^..^
exp_evalbot OUTPUT[*** ā¤ Unexpected "^..^"ā¤ expecting programā¤ at /tmp/bcbbtZRu7a line 1, column 1ā¤]
Auzon kp6: ^..^
exp_evalbot r19224: OUTPUT[syntax error at position 0, line 1 column 0:ā¤^..ā¤^ HEREā¤]
Auzon What's that supposed to do, anyway? 18:43
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pugs_svn r19225 | pmurias++ | [kp6] using .isa to check for Code in cached method calls 18:47
pmurias pugs: ^..&
pugs: ^..^
exp_evalbot OUTPUT[*** ā¤ Unexpected "^..&"ā¤ expecting programā¤ at /tmp/cpURTBk5xv line 1, column 1ā¤]
OUTPUT[*** ā¤ Unexpected "^..^"ā¤ expecting programā¤ at /tmp/hfgRBJDRSk line 1, column 1ā¤]
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fglock pugs: *; kp6: *; nqp: *; all say "hello" 18:54
exp_evalbot OUTPUT[helloā¤]
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pugs_svn r19226 | pmurias++ | [kp6-perl5] commented the method caching code a bit 19:03
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fglock [particle]: ping 19:12
[particle] hey there flavio 19:15
fglock I've been reading about perl6/nqp for a few days, 19:16
I see some Parrot problems are worked around, instead of fixing 19:17
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fglock most of the kp6-perl5 runtime is made of workarounds over Perl 5 19:18
i hoped Parrot would make this easier
PerlJam fglock: worked around until they are fixed. Work arounds are just so that forward progress isn't hampered
fglock i wonder if some of the kp6 workarounds could be useful for perl6 19:20
[particle] surely possible
fglock if these things were implemented, we could share the runtime
[particle] with parrot, we're working around things that are actively being (re)designed
with perl5, you're working around permanent design limitations, i suspect 19:21
fglock the most important thing for kp6 are BEGIN blocks, but there are other small stuff
[particle] we're still figuring out the begin/end control block design 19:22
fglock kp6 workaround for BEGIN blocks is resource-intensive, it should probably be implemented in low-level 19:23
probably C, because PIR doesn't seem to support creating closures 19:24
[particle] since it's our one remaining test failure, it'd be nice to have before tomorrow's parrot release
pmichaud is at lunch now, but when he returns it'd be worth talking about
fglock tomorrow is a bit too close :)
[particle] well, we don't need end tests passing, we can TODO them 19:25
fglock END is runtime
[particle] true
begin is the tricky one
and i think we can get a side-effect-free begin working quickly
fglock kp6 really needs the side-effects 19:26
[particle] but we definitely won't have full begin support tomorrow
pmurias [particle]: it depends on how much parrot contributors you can get to stay up hacking all night ;) 19:29
fglock is there a short-term plan to implement BEGIN in perl6?
[particle] we can get side-effect-free begin quickly, probably today. 19:30
but full begin, no short term plan i know of
pmurias: i'm willing to try that :) 19:31
fglock [particle]: I'm trying to find out what PIR commands to use for implementing BEGIN blocks 19:36
eg, looking for modified lexical variables
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[particle] find_lex ? 19:40
fglock hmm - you mean to compare all variables in scope? 19:41
sorry, i need to leave - back in 2hr, i hope & 19:42
[particle] cya
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ferreira pugs: 1..6 19:55
exp_evalbot RESULT[(1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6)]
ferreira pugs: 1 ^.. 6
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exp_evalbot RESULT[(2, 3, 4, 5, 6)] 19:55
ferreira pugs: 1 ^..^ 6
exp_evalbot RESULT[(2, 3, 4, 5)]
ferreira pugs: 1 ..^ 6
exp_evalbot RESULT[(1, 2, 3, 4, 5)] 19:56
ferreira ^6
pugs; ^6
REPLeffect missed the semicolon there. 19:57
19:57 jjore-w left
REPLeffect I mean, colon. 19:57
ferreira pugs: ^6 ;
exp_evalbot RESULT[(0.0, 1.0, 2.0, 3.0, 4.0, 5.0)]
ferreira just wrote a micro-article about range operators: feather.perl6.nl/~ferreira/perl6-op...anges.html
lambdabot Title: ranges.pod6 19:58
REPLeffect Yeah, I just read it :-)
ferreira REPLeffect: thanks
REPLeffect np 19:59
ferreira and another about the conditional (ternary) operator: feather.perl6.nl/~ferreira/perl6-op...rnary.html
lambdabot Title: ternary.pod6
ferreira and about negated operators: feather.perl6.nl/~ferreira/perl6-op...egate.html
lambdabot Title: negate.pod6
ferreira they are fun to write when you are in the mood
20:03 fglock left 20:11 manne left
rhr ferreira: ^$limit # 0 ..^ $limit-1 should be either 0 ..^ $limit or 0 .. $limit-1 20:13
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Auzon pugs: May .. Dec 20:23
exp_evalbot OUTPUT[*** No such subroutine: "&May"ā¤ at /tmp/zAmiRBzdf4 line 1, column 1 - line 2, column 1ā¤]
Auzon pugs: May..Dec
exp_evalbot OUTPUT[*** No such subroutine: "&May"ā¤ at /tmp/s4QFHzxIIb line 1, column 1 - line 2, column 1ā¤]
Auzon pugs: ^4 20:24
exp_evalbot RESULT[(0.0, 1.0, 2.0, 3.0)]
Auzon pugs: .say for ^4
exp_evalbot OUTPUT[0ā¤1ā¤2ā¤3ā¤]
Auzon pugs: $_ = "qwerty"; tr/a..z/A..Z/; 20:25
exp_evalbot RESULT[\"QWERTY"]
Auzon Neat
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ferreira rhr: fixed - it seems like I am not learning what I am writing :( 20:39
Auzon: that examples is from S03 and presupposes some decl of an enum or something like it
Auzon: ".say for ^4" is so beautiful that I replaced the more explicit version with it 20:40
Auzon Neat. :) 20:41
I had to make sure postfix 'for' would've worked ;)
pugs: $_ = "stuff"; $_->HOW; 20:44
exp_evalbot OUTPUT[*** ā¤ Unexpected "->"ā¤ expecting "::", term postfix or operatorā¤ at /tmp/kPII3x6F4k line 1, column 17ā¤]
Auzon Yay.
ferreira pugs: my enum Months Ā«:Jan(1) Feb Mar Apr May Jun Jul Aug Sep Oct Nov DecĀ» 20:45
exp_evalbot OUTPUT[decodeUTF8': bad data: '\171'ā¤decodeUTF8': bad data: '\187'ā¤*** ā¤ Unexpected "Months"ā¤ expecting ":" or "("ā¤ at /tmp/xJr51Wn92g line 1, column 10ā¤]
Auzon Is it choking on the << ?
pugs: my enum Months <<:Jan(1) Feb Mar Apr May Jun Jul Aug Sep Oct Nov Dec>> 20:46
exp_evalbot OUTPUT[*** ā¤ Unexpected "Months"ā¤ expecting ":" or "("ā¤ at /tmp/kfsqX0TDVO line 1, column 10ā¤]
[particle] do you need a sigil?
ferreira it looks enum declarations are not ready yet (in pugs, at least)
this is from S09
Auzon kp6: my enum Months <<:Jan(1) Feb Mar Apr May Jun Jul Aug Sep Oct Nov Dec>>
Uh oh. Did I break it? 20:47
[particle] i think it's just slower
exp_evalbot r19226: OUTPUT[syntax error at position 70, line 1 column 70:ā¤my enum Months <<:Jan(1) Feb Mar Apr May Jun Jul Aug Sep Oct Nov Dec>ā¤ ^ HEREā¤]
Auzon It didn't like it at all... 20:48
ferreira pugs: enum <<:Jan(1) Feb Mar Apr May Jun Jul Aug Sep Oct Nov Dec>>
exp_evalbot OUTPUT[*** No such subroutine: "&enum"ā¤ at /tmp/u77vm5u4JT line 1, column 1 - line 2, column 1ā¤]
ferreira hm, in Pugs tests, enum are marked :todo - so by now, no toying around unless we implemented it 20:49
Auzon Makes sense. 20:50
pugs: $_ = "abcdefg"; $_ =~ s/[aeg]//g; 20:51
exp_evalbot OUTPUT[*** ā¤ Unexpected "s"ā¤ There is no =~ operator in Perl 6 -- did you mean ~~ (match) or ~= (concat-assign)?ā¤ at /tmp/JTJUkVlA1R line 1, column 23ā¤]
Auzon pugs: $_ = "abcdefg"; $_ = s/[aeg]//g;
exp_evalbot OUTPUT[*** ā¤ Unexpected "g"ā¤ expecting term postfix or operatorā¤ at /tmp/huYgKDzq1m line 1, column 31ā¤] 20:52
ferreira pugs: a . b
Auzon pugs: $_ = "abcdefg"; $_ = s:each/[aeg]//;
exp_evalbot OUTPUT[*** ā¤ Unexpected " b"ā¤ expecting ".", "\187", ">>", "=", "^", operator name, qualified identifier, variable name, "...", "--", "++", "i", array subscript, hash subscript or code subscriptā¤ at /tmp/wqFuQSAJMC line 1, column 4ā¤]
RESULT[\{subst}]
ferreira pugs: 1 . b
pugs: 1 . 2
exp_evalbot OUTPUT[*** ā¤ Unexpected "."ā¤ expecting operatorā¤ at /tmp/qWta1CIU8I line 1, column 3ā¤]
OUTPUT[*** ā¤ Unexpected "."ā¤ expecting operatorā¤ at /tmp/3jY3vqYYWp line 1, column 3ā¤]
20:53 TJCRI joined
Auzon pugs: $_ = "abcdefg"; $_ ~~ s:each/[aeg]//; 20:53
exp_evalbot OUTPUT[*** Cannot parse regex: [aeg]ā¤*** Error: ā¤]
Auzon Hm... 20:54
pugs: $_ = "abcdefg"; $_ ~~ s/a//;
exp_evalbot RESULT[Bool::True]
Auzon :-/
[particle] <[aeg]>
Auzon pugs: $_ = "abcdefg"; $_ ~~ s/<[aeg]>//; $_;
Thanks :)
exp_evalbot RESULT[\"abcdefg"]
Auzon Hm.
pugs: $_ = "abcdefg"; $_.subst(/a/, "q"); 20:57
exp_evalbot RESULT[\"qbcdefg"] 20:58
Auzon I guess that's kind of nice.
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thoughtpolice ispy_: ping? 21:42
lambdabot thoughtpolice: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it.
ispy_ thoughtpolice: sup dude. 21:43
checking my messages...
thoughtpolice: What's up? 21:44
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thoughtpolice ispy_: since you're interested in contributing as via messages, would you like some credentials to post? :) 21:50
ispy_ thoughtpolice: yes I would :) 21:51
I'll follow any guidelines you have, of course... I would just like to help the tutorial grow, it's an excellent resource. 21:52
thoughtpolice ispy_: if it has to do with perl 6 (related stuff works too, announcements/project updates etc,) it's allowed. :) 21:53
generally the income bringer will be the resources/tutorials, though.
ispy_ of course. 21:54
thoughtpolice ispy_: pm me an email and I'll send an invite to be an author. feel free to contribute immediately. :)
ispy_ Excellent, thank you.
Ok, back to work for me! Thanks thoughtpolice.
thoughtpolice sent! :) 21:55
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