»ö« | perl6-projects.org/ | evalbot: 'perl6: say 3;' | irclog: irc.pugscode.org/ | UTF-8 is our friend!
Set by moritz_ on 17 June 2009.
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meppl good night 00:11
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azawawi hi 01:28
std: my $line = prompt "should i be loaded in another.pad?"; 01:31
p6eval std 27113: OUTPUT«ok 00:04 36m␤»
azawawi TimToady: thanks for the prompt() fix. szabgab will be happier now :) 01:35
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pugs_svn r27114 | azawawi++ | [S:H:P6] version 0.60 has the latest STD which fixes undeclared prompt() among other fixes. TimToady++ 01:49
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twigil rakudo: say "hi twigil".perl; 02:19
p6eval rakudo 9dc941: OUTPUT«"hi twigil"␤» 02:20
twigil rakudo: say "hi".WHAT;
p6eval rakudo 9dc941: OUTPUT«Str()␤»
twigil lambdabot: compare 2 3 02:25
mildew: say "hi" 02:26
p6eval mildew: OUTPUT«Bareword found where operator expected at perl6-snapshot/STD.pm line 4, near "$LANG is"␤ (Missing operator before is?)␤Bareword found where operator expected at perl6-snapshot/STD.pm line 5, near "$PKGDECL is"␤ (Missing operator before is?)␤Bareword found where operator expected
..at…
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twigil @compare 2 3 02:30
lambdabot Plugin `compose' failed with: Unknown command: "2"
twigil @type 2
lambdabot forall t. (Num t) => t 02:31
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Minimiscience How do I create an IO object in Rakudo that supports the .lines method? 02:39
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twigil Minimiscience: github.com/rakudo/rakudo/blob/5f73c...ses/IO.pir 02:57
maybe this can help you
Minimiscience How do I create one of those? 03:02
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Minimiscience Let me rephrase: How do I instantiate an object of the IO class described in the given link? It doesn't say. 03:07
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Minimiscience It really does not bode well that this channel gets less traffic than #lojban. 03:14
twigil Minimiscience: as far as I understood, we have $*IN, $*OUT and $*ERR in rakudo 03:18
Minimiscience How do I create an IO object for a file?
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twigil my $fh = open(@*ARGS[0], :r); # :r = read mode 03:19
my $line = 1;
for =$fh {
say $line++ ~ " $_";
}
$fh.close();
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TimToady twigil: BTW, =$fh has changed to $fh.lines 04:31
twigil TimToady: thanks. is it written in some doc? 04:32
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TimToady perlcabal.org/syn/S32/IO.html 04:35
bbl & 04:37
pugs_svn r27115 | azawawi++ | [S:H:P6] Removed obsolete method 04:40
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azawawi TimToady: redspans is not working as expected since revision 26975, please see pastebin.com/m30b2d582 05:06
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moritz_ rakudo: say [+] 1..5 06:33
p6eval rakudo 9dc941: OUTPUT«15␤»
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moritz_ nqp: say(chars("abc")) 06:40
p6eval nqp: OUTPUT«Could not find non-existent sub chars␤current instr.: '_block11' pc 3 (EVAL_4:5)␤»
moritz_ nqp: say("abc".chars)
p6eval nqp: OUTPUT«Method 'chars' not found for invocant of class 'String'␤current instr.: '_block11' pc 12 (EVAL_4:7)␤»
moritz_ nqp: say("abc".bytes) 06:41
p6eval nqp: OUTPUT«Method 'bytes' not found for invocant of class 'String'␤current instr.: '_block11' pc 12 (EVAL_4:7)␤»
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azawawi moritz_: hi 06:49
pugs_svn r27116 | azawawi++ | [redspans] it is working again with STD 06:50
moritz_ hi azawawi 06:51
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azawawi std: 07:19
std:
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azawawi moritz_: ping 07:28
moritz_ azawawi: pong
azawawi moritz_: STD->parse does not return a parser when the source text has only spaces, see pastebin.com/m655d072d
moritz_ azawawi: and why do you tell me? ;-) 07:29
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azawawi moritz_: thought you had an idea why is that happening :) 07:29
TimToady: STD->parse does not return a parser when the string is empty, see pastebin.com/m655d072d 07:30
moritz: :)
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pugs_svn r27117 | azawawi++ | [S:H:P6] version 0.61 fixes a redspans bug that caused output to be invalid 07:37
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DanielC @seen mberends 08:00
lambdabot Last time I saw mberends was when I left ##english, ##freebsd, ##hrg, ##logic, #arch-haskell, #concatenative, #darcs, #dreamlinux-es, #friendly-coders, #functionaljava, #gentoo-haskell, #gentoo-uy, #
ghc, #haskell, #haskell-blah, #haskell-books, #haskell-freebsd, #haskell-in-depth, #haskell-overflow, #haskell-soc, #haskell.cz, #haskell.de, #haskell.dut, #haskell.es, #haskell.fi, #haskell.fr, #
haskell.hr, #haskell.it, #haskell.jp, #haskell.no, #haskell.ru, #haskell.se, #haskell_ru, #jhc, #jtiger, #macosx, #macosxdev, #novalang, #perl6, #rosettacode, #scala, #scannedinavian, #unicycling, #
xmonad and #yi 14d 3h 9m 27s ago.
DanielC wow
masak lambdabot: showoff!
howdy, buffercamels.
DanielC I wanted to speak with mberends about the module-lib project.
I won't be around next week, starting Saturday, and I didn't want him to think that I've disappeared. 08:01
masak I'm given to understand that he is, or has been, moving house lately.
meppl if mberends speaks all these languages .cz .de .dut .es .fu .fr .hr .it .jp .no .ru .se .ru
DanielC yeah
masak DanielC: you can leave a message with phenny.
DanielC I think I might do that. How do you do that? Just "phenny: tell meberends ..." ? 08:02
masak aye.
phenny++
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moritz_ or write an email 08:02
such a retarded technique ;-)
DanielC moritz_: I'd prefer email. Can you give me his address? 08:03
masak in South Korea, only old people use email.
meppl do they like jabber?
masak I would think so, yes. 08:04
moritz_ DanielC: [email@hidden.address]
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DanielC moriz_: thanks 08:04
masak moritz_++ # uploading JSON::Tiny to CPAN 08:10
moritz_ masak: we're having hot discussions about it on #toolchain 08:11
masak goes there 08:12
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masak care to give a summary? 08:12
DanielC Where is #toolchain ?
masak DanielC: on irc.perl.org
DanielC Is JSON::Tiny based on Parrot?
thanks
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moritz_ masak: 1) "you suck, how dare you poison the Perl 5 namespace JSON::Tiny" 08:13
masak moritz_: that's ridiculous.
moritz_ masak: not quite
masak Perl 6 is Perl. CPAN is for Perl.
moritz_ masak: people now can't upload a Perl 5 module named JSON::Tiny to CPAN 08:14
masak so what?
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moritz_ Alias++ suggested to upload it as a dev release 08:14
masak neither can they upload a Perl 4 module where a Perl 5 one already exists.
moritz_ so it won't clobber any Perl 5 namespace
masak why is that even an issue?
why should Perl 6 modules take care not to "clobber" namespaces? 08:15
sounds like subservience to me.
moritz_ because the CPAN indexer can't deal with Perl 6 yet
masak oh, tosh.
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moritz_ making that obvious was kind of the point of my action 08:17
masak yes, I understand that. kudos. 08:18
(soft revolution)++
this came out a bit strange: search.cpan.org/~moritz/JSON-Tiny-0...ON/Tiny.pm
moritz_ that's the problem with cpan6, it tries to be a hard/full revolution all at once 08:19
masak: I know
masak looking at it, I feel a bit like the guy on the right, with a question mark in his head. :)
moritz_: exactly.
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DanielC Fudge... I think my disk is dying. 08:30
This is the second time I have to run fsck on it in the last 7 days.
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viklund Good Morning! 08:57
moritz_ oh hai viklund
viklund is rakudo broken? 08:58
sry
misspelled PERL6LIB
azawawi moritz_: std says 'panic: unexpected package name &JSON::Tiny' (neither an error nor warning) and continues...
std: module JSON::Tiny { } 08:59
p6eval std 27117: OUTPUT«panic: unexpected package name &JSON::Tiny␤ok 00:02 35m␤»
azawawi std: module JSON { }; 09:02
p6eval std 27117: OUTPUT«ok 00:02 35m␤»
azawawi std: module JSON::T { };
p6eval std 27117: OUTPUT«panic: unexpected package name &JSON::T␤ok 00:02 35m␤»
azawawi # an STD bug :) 09:03
std: module JSON-T { }
p6eval std 27117: OUTPUT«ok 00:02 35m␤»
azawawi std: module Foo::Bar;
p6eval std 27117: OUTPUT«panic: unexpected package name &Foo::Bar␤ok 00:02 35m␤»
azawawi TimToady: 'module Foo::Bar;' causes a "panic: unexpected package name &Foo::Bar". 'module Foo' and 'module Foo-Bar' works. maybe it should be a stderr warning? 09:07
so what's the difference between a perl 6 module and a perl 6 package? 09:11
viklund I'm thinking about profiling perl6 09:15
since the pir-files get annotated 09:16
do you think that a ballpark estimate would be possible by post-processing the pir-files
and adding some kind of print statement with linenumber and timestamp for each .annotate
would give an output that is usable for profiling? 09:17
I'm thinking it's the simplest thing that can possibly work (would of course be nice to see the call-stack as well) 09:19
the advantage of this approach is that I can do it ;) 09:20
one program to post-process the pir-files and one to analyze the output
phenny: tell pmichaud could you just tell me if there is any point in doing this: irclog.perlgeek.de/perl6/2009-06-18#i_1248789 09:28
phenny viklund: I'll pass that on when pmichaud is around.
viklund thx phenny
phenny: tell viklund something 09:30
phenny You can tell yourself that.
viklund ok
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masak phenny++ 09:35
viklund indeed
masak: do you think it could work for profiling 09:36
masak viklund: possibly. 09:37
the print statements will affect the timings, though.
viklund of course they will
masak would be nice to do something less invasive.
viklund hopefully it's a constant factor for each line
masak yes.
viklund running perl5 under dprofpp makes the program slower as well
you can't get away from that I believe 09:38
azawawi viklund: do u mean you're going to inject timing code between annotated lines?
viklund I would guess that I would add a print statement right after the .annotate line 09:39
smth like
say "$timestamp $linenumber"
(but in PIR of course) 09:40
then I'll write a script to analyze the output
azawawi viklun: ofcourse, how about between subs invocations; that would be more useful
viklund azawawi: yes, but that would be more difficult ;) 09:41
masak viklund: my general comment is simply 'kudos, and good luck'.
azawawi viklund: let me see
viklund i'm not sure wheter it's any point though
masak only one way to find out. :) 09:42
azawawi viklund: i was thinking of doing PIR/Perl6 annotation in Padre; maybe i could help 09:43
viklund: i already started by adding a "Generate PIR" from Perl 6
viklund I don't really know what these .annotate lines do
nice
azawawi: to put a timing between sub invocations you need to analyze both the perl-file and the pir-file (if it's a postprocessing step) 09:45
line-numbers only needs the pir-file 09:46
hence very simple
azawawi viklund: i was thinking of 'invoke_method foo()' in PIR or something like that... 09:47
viklund azawawi: ? 09:48
azawawi examines some PIR output
viklund: when you call foo() on a annotated line; it can surround it with timing code. 09:49
viklund yes, but how do you detect foo()? 09:50
twigil rakudo: say $*IN.lines
azawawi viklund: .annotate "line", 7\n$P35 = "foo"()
p6eval rakudo 9dc941: OUTPUT«Land der Berge, Land am Strome,Land der Äcker, Land der Dome,Land der Hämmer, zukunftsreich!Heimat bist du großer Söhne,Volk, begnadet für das Schöne,vielgerühmtes Österreich,vielgerühmtes Österreich!Heiß umfehdet, wild umstrittenliegst dem Erdteil du inmitten,einem starken
..Herzen …
twigil oh
viklund azawawi: yes, but you need to check the perl-file to find all the methods/subs 09:51
masak twigil: it's the Austrian national anthem.
viklund right?
I mean, the method/sub-names 09:52
azawawi viklund: actually that would be easy with STD->parse() and finding the method-call
viklund ye
azawawi viklund: a sub foo { } is a routine_def.+?ident 09:53
viklund yes
I've never checked out STD though
maybe I should
azawawi viklund: you can access it through my module Syntax::Highlight::Perl6
viklund: in plain p5
viklund my point was merely that just adding the info that looking for .annotate lines in the PIR is trivial 09:54
azawawi viklund: and then call ->tokens to get the array of parsed tree strings...
viklund: yeah, what about starting with that and then we can extend it to this..
viklund oh noes, programming in perl5 when not at work ;p
azawawi: sounds like a good plan, I'll wait for pmichaud comment first though 09:55
azawawi viklund: see this pastebin.com/m443db834 09:56
viklund azawawi: yes, some PIR, what should I look at 09:58
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azawawi viklund: take a look at line 63 09:59
viklund yes, the call to foo
azawawi viklund: it is annotated to line 7 where foo is called and line 2 where foo is declared 10:00
viklund which in this case happens to have an .annotate just before and just after
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viklund I think it always is an .annotate just after 10:01
but I have examples without .annotate on the line before
if you have a sub with arguments for example
azawawi goes back to hacking Perl6 & Padre then :) 10:02
viklund ;) 10:03
a cal to say is also always followed by .annotate
call* 10:04
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lichtkind szabgab: ping 10:09
szabgab pong 10:10
lichtkind szabgab: i just read szabgab.com/blog/2009/06/1245228625.html and think you have an mistake in there 10:13
szabgab: say [email@hidden.address] doeas interpolate because ":qq :double Interpolate with :s, :a, :h, :f, :c, :b" 10:14
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szabgab it should say does NOT ... 10:14
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szabgab sorry what ? 10:15
viklund rakudo: my @names = <as df>; say "@names" 10:16
szabgab rakudo: say [email@hidden.address]
p6eval rakudo 9dc941: OUTPUT«@names␤»
rakudo 9dc941: OUTPUT«joe@names.org␤»
viklund rakudo: my @names = <as df>; say "{@names}"
p6eval rakudo 9dc941: OUTPUT«as df␤»
lichtkind szabgab: double quote does interpolate arrays
szabgab in perl 5 yes
not in perl 6
at least not in rakudo
lichtkind szabgab: right how you demonstrated, but synopses demand otherwise if i read themm correctly 10:18
szabgab I donno, anyone ?
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viklund lichtkind: From S02: "Bare array, hash, and subroutine variables may I<never> be interpolated." 10:19
line 2860 10:20
that's in double-quotish strings
lichtkind viklund: so ":qq :double Interpolate with :s, :a, :h, :f, :c, :b" means only if there surrounded by {} ? 10:21
viklund I don't know, where is that quote from? 10:22
lichtkind viklund: from S02 search for : Generalized quotes may now take adverbs
viklund I saw it, line 2772
lichtkind i dont have line numbers here 10:23
10:23 xomas is now known as xomas_, xomas_ is now known as xomas
viklund the way I read that is that qq:"@array" should interpolate the array 10:24
twigil what does the undescore after a nick mean?
viklund perhaps qq"@array"
I'm not sure about the adverb usage
moritz_ viklund: qq"@array[]"
viklund rakudo: say qq"test" 10:25
p6eval rakudo 9dc941: OUTPUT«test␤»
viklund rakudo: my @t = <a b>; say qq"@t"
p6eval rakudo 9dc941: OUTPUT«@t␤»
viklund rakudo: my @t = <a b>; say qq"@t[]"
p6eval rakudo 9dc941: OUTPUT«@t[]␤»
moritz_ but rakudo doesn't do array interpolation yet anyway
viklund NYI?
ah
but that call should interpolate, right? 10:26
moritz_ right.
lichtkind moritz_: i remember arrays where interpolated only with final []
moritz_: right? :) 10:27
viklund rakudo: my @array=< lichtkind viklund >; say "hello @array[0]"
p6eval rakudo 9dc941: OUTPUT«hello @array[0]␤»
viklund I think that should work though
lichtkind viklund: yes should :)
szabgab: so truth was in the middle of our initial statements :)
moritz_ lichtkind: right
anything except scalars is only interpolated if it ends in a postcircumfix 10:28
lichtkind have that correct in p6tut part 3
moritz_ ie my $x = a; "$x.uc" will give "a.uc", while "$x.uc()" will give "A"
lichtkind i mean
lichtkind has to correct in p6tut part 3
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masak rakudo: class Failure is also { method foo {say "OH HAI"} }; .foo 10:57
p6eval rakudo 9dc941: OUTPUT«OH HAI␤»
moritz_ new in Perl 6: extensinble undef! 10:59
masak rakudo: class Failure is also { method defined { True } }; say .defined 11:05
p6eval rakudo 9dc941: ( no output )
masak snickers
that one gives a bus error on my box. 11:06
rindolf masak: bus error?
masak rindolf: bus error.
rindolf masak: isn't it a kind of hardware failure?
masak rindolf: no, it's another term for 'segmentation fault'. 11:07
rindolf masak: ah, OK.
moritz_ it's what happens when a program tries to use memory outside of its address range 11:14
masak and what's 'segmentation fault'?
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DanielC masak: The program tried to write to a chunk of memory where it wasn't supposed to. 11:15
masak: It wrote to a memory segment where it shouldn't have.
masak: Do you know C ? 11:16
masak DanielC: to a point.
DanielC In C, if you use malloc wrong, you'll probably get a segmentation fault.
masak ok, so it seems to me that a bus error and a segmentation fault are at least in the same ballpark.
moritz_ aye 11:17
pmurias both being roughly eqivalent to "something went wrong"
moritz_ both are errors on memory access
masak rakudo: class Failure is also { method perl { "HOLA!" } }; say .perl 11:19
p6eval rakudo 9dc941: ( no output )
masak seems the problem is in overriding methods that were defined already.
moritz_ "no output" is wrong though 11:20
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masak moritz_: yes. that's what I mean. 11:20
moritz_ ah yes, it's a segfault
masak "no output" here means that a bus error occurred.
rakudo: class A { method foo { 1 } }; class A is also { method foo { 2 } }; A.new.foo
p6eval rakudo 9dc941: ( no output )
masak ah.
and it's not just PIR methods.
moritz_ which, for whatever reasons, is printed to the console, not to IRC
masak submits rakudobug
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moritz_ the latter doesn't cause any errors 11:21
viklund: if you haven't noticed yet: JSON::Tiny is on CPAN, search.cpan.org/~moritz/JSON-Tiny-0.1.2_1/ ;-) 11:23
when is rakudo release day? today? tomorrow? 11:25
masak on a pmichaud Thursday, I'd guess. 11:26
I'm still suffering from #66450. I regret that I haven't taken the time to investigate/complaing about that one more before the release. 11:41
s/complaing/complain/ 11:42
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masak hm, I can no longer reproduce #66450... that's good news. 11:47
but I still have a variant of the problem on feather.
oh well, closing this one and possibly opening a new one for the feather problem.
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viklund moritz_: yes, i saw 11:56
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Matt-W Hello, wonderful Perl6ers 11:59
rindolf Hello wonderful Matt-W
jnthn oh hai 12:00
viklund rakudo: "olleh".reverse.say
p6eval rakudo 9dc941: OUTPUT«olleh␤»
jnthn is at a net cafe in Rome but not for long.
viklund greeting jnthn
moritz_ rakudo: "hello".flip.say
p6eval rakudo 9dc941: OUTPUT«olleh␤»
viklund moritz_: thx
??
jnthn So, whas news? 12:01
viklund rakudo: <o l l e h >.reverse.say
p6eval rakudo 9dc941: OUTPUT«hello␤»
viklund rakudo: <o l l e h >.flip.say
p6eval rakudo 9dc941: OUTPUT«h e l l o␤»
moritz_ wtf? 12:02
rakudo: say "ab".flip
Matt-W viklund: reverse is now for lists, flip is for strings
p6eval rakudo 9dc941: OUTPUT«ba␤»
moritz_ ah
I know, but I mis-read my own first example
viklund yes 12:03
Matt-W jnthn: During a boring meeting, I thought how much more fun I could be having writing something in Perl 6. Does that count as news?
viklund why doesn't "ba".flip.say print "ab"? 12:04
jnthn Not news, just nice to hear. :-)
viklund rakudo: "ba".flip.say
p6eval rakudo 9dc941: OUTPUT«ab␤»
viklund it does
I'm also a bit slow
;p
oh, well
lunch &
moritz_ jnthn: not much news in terms of rakudo 12:05
Matt-W jnthn: Unfortunately I would've been having more fun if I was writing something in COBOL, I think
jnthn epic boredom
moritz_ jnthn: I uploaded a Perl 6 package to CPAN and watched the people shout
jnthn fun!
Did they shout loudly? 12:06
moritz_ yes, on #toolchain
I'll write a mail to [email@hidden.address] soon, and see how they react 12:07
Matt-W Did you shout back?
moritz_ no, I stayed friendly ;-)
actually they were also polite
jnthn Hopefully a good solution can be worked out. 12:09
moritz_ I hope so too 12:10
Matt-W yes 12:11
ascent_ moritz_: got any answer from Mark Overmeer (cpan6.org) ? 12:17
jnthn OK. Seems like things are bubbling along nicely. I will be back to work a week on Monday.
moritz_ ascent_: yes 12:18
there are basically three problems with cpan6 12:19
1) it doesn't work yet
2) it's not evolutionary. If you implement 30% of it, you still can't use it
Matt-W jnthn: Have fun!
moritz_ 3) it doesn't solve some of the problems that cpan solves (indexing, extracting Pod etc) 12:20
jnthn Matt-W: thanks! 12:21
o/ 12:23
12:23 Chillance joined
ascent_ moritz_: maybe we should discuss it on some mailing list, grouping ideas and trying to write project basics? or maybe there was that discussion and I missed it. 12:23
moritz_ ascent_: there was a discussion on p6l
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ascent_ moritz_: ok, I'll search for it and read. 12:24
moritz_ actually I didn't read all of it, because much was also focused on different problems 12:25
like, how to create binary distributions
ruoso Hello 12:26
masak hi, jnthn! 12:39
how's the vacation going?
12:39 rfordinal joined
Matt-W masak o/ 12:47
masak Matt-W: OH HAI 12:48
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masak Matt-W: what's new with Form? 12:54
Matt-W masak: Nothing, unfortunately 12:55
I am a bad man
masak non sequitur, but fair enough. :_
:P
Matt-W Maybe I will do some tonight
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masak yes, please do! 12:55
Matt-W Wish I could get work to fund some Perl 6 work for me to do
I'm always in the mood for it when I'm at work
masak maybe I'll do some Druid SVG tonight. 12:56
I saw a projection of a cube today, and started fantasizing about Druid in real SVG.
Matt-W I should stop being afraid of the complexity of number formatting and just make some of it work
masak aye. 12:57
don't get crippled by Design Dread.
Matt-W If I can just get some simple decimals up and running that'd be a nice step forward 12:59
lining themselves up into neat columns
PerlJam greets #perl6
Matt-W hi PerlJam
masak ahoj PerlJam 13:00
PerlJam Matt-W: where's the code for Form? 13:01
Matt-W github.com/mattw/form
PerlJam Matt-W: have you blogged about it? 13:03
Matt-W no
I blogged about some grammar things which I learned while writing it
but not about it in particular
not yet, anyway. I will do.
PerlJam Seems like a good way to get other people to help you hack on it if you write a blog that shows where it's at and how to start using it (or where it needs hacking)
masak indeed. 13:04
Matt-W Yes
And get it on Planet Perl 6, too
PerlJam btw, anyone know of an updated perl6 syntax file for vim that understands $foo-bar-baz ? 13:05
Matt-W Mine seems to
PerlJam All my identifiers stop at the first -
Matt-W hmm
PerlJam (well, the coloration does :)
Matt-W don't think mine do 13:06
But I don't use many variable identifiers that long
and method names don't highlight, so...
PerlJam and it's starting to get annoying as I look at more and more code that uses -
moritz_ PerlJam: the one from literal++ works fine here
masak dang, I should start using that one.
I do most of my Perl 6 coding in vim. 13:07
PerlJam moritz_: where's it at?
moritz_ PerlJam: github.com/hinrik/vim-perl
PerlJam gracias
github is like the new CPAN :) 13:08
Matt-W no not really 13:09
it's just a good git service
the new CPAN will be rather different :)
moritz_ I hope that the new CPAN will be just the old CPAN, but improved 13:10
masak I'm very skeptical to the concept of a 'new CPAN'.
Matt-W I'd like a new CPAN.pm 13:11
CPAN itself is in fairly reasonable shape
PerlJam masak: why is that?
moritz_ masak: speaking of which, having proto installing Perl 6 modules from cpan.org would be great ;-)
PerlJam Matt-W: CPAN needs more meta-data for perl6, but I agree :)
Matt-W PerlJam: Obviously some extensions needed for Perl 6 support 13:12
masak PerlJam: it seems to me that many people think that tearing down everything and starting over is a good idea, and that calling it 'the new CPAN' would somehow make it just as successful as the old one.
Matt-W Pod, for starters
masak moritz_: that could be arranged. :)
Matt-W moritz_: sure, you could write that :P
Matt-W hides
masak moritz_: I'll make some attempts soonish. 13:13
PerlJam masak: perhaps. Or you could look at it as the existing CPAN was the "one to throw away" and that the new CPAN will build on lessons learned (I'm optimistic regarding my fellow humans :)
moritz_ PerlJam: problem is that *we* didn't build CPAN, so *we* didn't learn the lessons. Maybe Jarkko could build a new, better CPAN, but I bet he's either too busy or not convinced that we need a new one 13:14
Matt-W I don't see a problem with extending CPAN to have the idea of modules being in Perl 6 or Perl 5, and learning to handle Pod. I don't see why that wouldn't be sufficient. 13:17
DanielC Matt-W: You mean it won't? ;-)
Matt-W No
I mean as far as I can see, it would be
PerlJam Matt-W: you mean, Perl 5, Perl 6, or Parrot right? 13:18
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DanielC As long as you can add additional metadata, I don't see why CPAN could not hold Perl 5, Perl 6 and Parrot modules. Then again, what do I know? 13:19
PerlJam DanielC: or PHP or Ruby or Haskell or C or ...
PerlJam tests everyones hot button :) 13:20
DanielC PerlJam: There are those who might object (personally *I* don't care).
masak me neither. but there's a "What CPAN is not" document out there that does. 13:22
DanielC yes
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DanielC So it's better to assume that "CPAN 6" or whatever, will not carry PHP and Ruby modules. 13:23
masak depends on who builds the CPAN 6 or whatever.
PerlJam indeed
lichtkind moritz_: things like infix and quote are they called macro adverbs or how?
skids Not sure there's a name for the "infix" in "infix:<...>". It's just an identifier, albiet one that has reserved meaning. 13:26
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masak skids: S02 calls them 'category'. 13:26
PerlJam I get the feeling (and I could be completely wrong) that if TimToady were revamping CPAN for perl 6 that he would pun it to be the "comprehensive programmer's archive network" so that it could work for any language.
masak PerlJam: thing is, again, that neither we nor TimToady are running CPAN. 13:27
PerlJam yep.
(I just wish more people had the TimToady nature :) 13:28
DanielC And the best way to kill a volunteer effort is to start telling them what to do.
skids masask: cool. The whole "infix:<...>" construct does have a name.... "extended identifier"
lichtkind skids , masak or operator scope?
masak skids: oh, I didn't know that.
lichtkind: sorry?
lichtkind masak: you said category, but s02 calles them also operator scope 13:29
masak lichtkind: I took 'category' from S02:3752.
lichtkind masak: how you find linenumbers? 13:30
masak lichtkind: if you read the .pod files, it's easy.
lichtkind: if you read the HTML, View Source and look for anchors.
skids The anchors have been removed.
masak really? why?
skids I think because they were really hosing up browsers? 13:31
PerlJam crazy
skids POD needs an explicit invisible anchor directive, really.
masak why in the would would anchors hose up browsers? 13:32
skids I don't know if that was why. I do know they made text searching the HTML even worse than it is now. 13:33
masak too bad. it was convenient to be able to link to the line number anchors. 13:34
Matt-W PerlJam: once you extend to two languages, I would expect it to be easier to add the third if one would wish to. I'm not sure it's the place for Parrot things though.
skids Line numbers really aren't the best way to do it anyway, so I'm not really broken up about it. If someone were to provide a way to name paragraphs in pod, I'd personally go through and put anchors in by hand. 13:35
(We do need a replacement,)
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masak rakudo: sub postcircumfix:<[ ]>(Str $s, @i) { my $res = ""; for @i { $res ~= substr($s, $_, 1) }; $res }; say "OH HAI WORLD"[7,0,7,2,9,4,-1] 14:04
p6eval rakudo 9dc941: OUTPUT«WOW RAD␤»
moritz_ ??? 14:05
masak :)
moritz_ rakudo: sub postcirumfix:<[ ]>() { }; my @a = 1, 2, 3; say @a[0] 14:06
p6eval rakudo 9dc941: OUTPUT«1␤»
moritz_ so it's a sub that's used as fallback if the method dispatch fails?
masak I have no idea.
moritz_ rakudo: sub postcirumfix:<[ ]>() { }; "foo"[3]
p6eval rakudo 9dc941: OUTPUT«Method 'postcircumfix:[ ]' not found for invocant of class 'Str'␤»
masak I didn't even reflect on the fact that I didn't write 'multi'.
[particle] isn't it multi by default? 14:07
masak I don't know. 14:08
moritz_ [particle]: only if there's a proto declared
[particle] right.
so, the question is: are all builtin ops proto by default?
moritz_ yes
[particle] then there you go, multi not needed. 14:09
moritz_ but still postcircumfix should be a method, no?
[particle] rakudo: sub postcircumfix:<[ ]>(Str $s: @i) { my $res = ""; for @i { $res ~= substr($s, $_, 1) }; $res }; say "OH HAI WORLD"[7,0,7,2,9,4,-1] 14:10
p6eval rakudo 9dc941: OUTPUT«error:imcc:syntax error, unexpected IDENTIFIER ('self')␤ in file 'EVAL_24' line 102␤too many arguments passed (2) - 1 params expected␤in sub postcircumfix:[ ] (/tmp/4NJRkuTmfe:1)␤called from Main (/tmp/4NJRkuTmfe:2)␤»
[particle] rakudo: method postcircumfix:<[ ]>(Str $s: @i) { my $res = ""; for @i { $res ~= substr($s, $_, 1) }; $res }; say "OH HAI WORLD"[7,0,7,2,9,4,-1]
p6eval rakudo 9dc941: OUTPUT«WOW RAD␤»
[particle] oops...
Matt-W I think perhaps rakudo could have a better error message there 14:11
[particle] it must be a method when defined with an invocant
yes, indeed.
moritz_ rakudo: class Str is also { method postcircumfix:<[ ]>() { say self } }; "foo"[]
p6eval rakudo 9dc941: OUTPUT«foo␤»
[particle] better error messages wanted, and we'll have them when we move to STD.pm
14:11 ejs2 left
Matt-W waits for masak to say he's filing a bug 14:11
[particle] 'is also' still works? 14:12
moritz_ aye
rakudo doesn't do 'augment' yet
masak Matt-W: sorry, a bit distracted by $work.
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masak files rakudobug 14:12
[particle] std: sub postcircumfix:<[ ]>(Str $s: @i) { my $res = ""; for @i { $res ~= substr($s, $_, 1) }; $res }; say "OH HAI WORLD"[7,0,7,2,9,4,-1]
p6eval std 27117: ( no output ) 14:13
PerlJam Matt-W: we should follow masak's example and submit more rakudo bugs ourselves.
[particle] std: sub postcircumfix:<[ ]>(Str $s: @i) { my $res = ""; for @i { $res ~= substr($s, $_, 1) }; $res }; say "OH HAI WORLD"[7,0,7,2,9,4,-1]
p6eval std 27117: ( no output )
[particle] std: sub postcircumfix:<[ ]>(Str $s: @i) { my $res = ""; for @i { $res ~= substr($s, $_, 1) }; $res }; say "OH HAI WORLD"[7,0,7,2,9,4,-1]
Matt-W PerlJam: I submit my own, I just don't find very many first
p6eval std 27117: ( no output )
[particle] std: 1
p6eval std 27117: OUTPUT«ok 00:02 35m␤»
pmichaud rakudo: sub postcircumfix:<[ ]>(Str $s, Int $i) { substr($s, $i, 1) }; say "OH HAI WORLD"[7];
phenny pmichaud: 09:28Z <viklund> tell pmichaud could you just tell me if there is any point in doing this: irclog.perlgeek.de/perl6/2009-06-18#i_1248789
p6eval rakudo 9dc941: OUTPUT«W␤»
pmichaud rakudo: sub postcircumfix:<[ ]>(Str $s, Int $i) { substr($s, $i, 1) }; say "OH HAI WORLD"[7,0,7];
p6eval rakudo 9dc941: OUTPUT«Parameter type check failed; expected something matching Int() but got something of type List() for $i in call to postcircumfix:[ ]␤in sub postcircumfix:[ ] (/tmp/TiTRhq4Zyz:2)␤called from Main (/tmp/TiTRhq4Zyz:2)␤»
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pmichaud rakudo: class Str is also { method postcircumfix:<[ ]>(Str $s: Int $i) { substr($s, $i, 1) }; }; say "OH HAI WORLD"[7,0,7]; 14:14
p6eval rakudo 9dc941: OUTPUT«Parameter type check failed; expected something matching Int() but got something of type List() for $i in call to postcircumfix:[ ]␤in method Str::postcircumfix:[ ] (/tmp/OX2A0MvYU5:2)␤called from Main (/tmp/OX2A0MvYU5:2)␤»
pmichaud rakudo: class Str is also { method postcircumfix:<[ ]>(Int $i) { substr(self, $i, 1) }; }; say "OH HAI WORLD"[7,0,7]; 14:15
p6eval rakudo 9dc941: OUTPUT«Parameter type check failed; expected something matching Int() but got something of type List() for $i in call to postcircumfix:[ ]␤in method Str::postcircumfix:[ ] (/tmp/odBNU2a4TB:2)␤called from Main (/tmp/odBNU2a4TB:2)␤»
pmichaud hmmpf.
Matt-W shouldn't it be Int @i?
[particle] (Int $i) ... [7,0,7]
pmichaud Yes, I know.
I'm wanting it to fall back to the default postcircumfix case that accepts a list. 14:16
[particle] does Str have that?
moritz_ no
[particle] so it can't fall back.
pmichaud no, but in Rakudo atm postcircumfix:<[ ]> is a multisub, not strictly a method. 14:17
Matt-W But would the multi match against a string?
PerlJam impatiently waits for a diff of two very large files
pmichaud so "OH HAI"[1,0,1] is really postcircumfix:<[ ]>("OH HAI", 1, 0, 1)
[particle] PerlJam: try diff -j9 ;) 14:18
pmichaud and *that* version of postcircumfix should be breaking down the list into individual Int method calls.
PerlJam :)
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pmichaud it might be that I really need Str to "does Positional" in order for that to work, though. 14:19
[particle] yeah, right.
how do you mix in that role to an existing type?
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[particle] class string is also does Positional? 14:19
masak [particle]: augment Str { does Positional } 14:20
[particle] augment class Str { does Positional }
ok.
ruoso hmm... that would be intesting...
pmichaud I don't know. At any rate, I'll look at it some other time.
[particle] why do my fingers keep typing 'class' there? sigh.
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masak [particle]: in 'augment class Str'. I think that might be right. 14:23
moritz_ std: augment class Str { ... } 14:24
pmurias pmichaud: Str can't do Positional as the unit for the indexes isn't defined by default
p6eval std 27117: OUTPUT«ok 00:02 35m␤»
moritz_ aye, you can also augment slangs
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pmurias the chars/bytes/graphs/codes return the number of the given thing how do i split a string into an array of that things? 14:26
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masak std: augment slang Regex {} 14:28
p6eval std 27117: OUTPUT«ok 00:02 35m␤»
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masak pmurias: do you want the things as numbers, or as something else? 14:28
moritz_ pmurias: with substr
something like $str.substr(Codes(3)) 14:29
PerlJam I was thinking he could use comb 14:30
pmurias moritz_: substr returns a string
PerlJam But I don't know if you can actually twiddle the meaning of . in a regex in rakudo.
moritz_ PerlJam: not in rakudo, but it's specced that way
$str.comb(rx:codes/./) 14:31
pmurias masak: that's a hard question, maybe strings
masak pmurias: I'm here to ask the hard questions. :) 14:32
pmurias: it seems to me not everything on those levels can be returned as strings.
pmurias i was just wondering if those methods could do spliting in list context 14:33
moritz_ right, a collection of bytes would be a Buf
PerlJam pmurias: that would seem reasonable to me. :)
moritz_ not to me, because the method doesn't know its context 14:34
pmurias why not?
moritz_ pmurias: for the same reasons we want to abolish want() 14:35
PerlJam Hmm.
moritz_ multi a(Int $x) { ... }; multi a (*@x) { ... }; a($str.bytes) # which multi does it call? which context is it in?
PerlJam what about an adverb on Str? $s:chars
moritz_ adverbs are defined on operators, not on nouns 14:36
$str.to('codes')
PerlJam $str.as('codes') maybe?
doesn't "as" already do something? 14:37
moritz_ right, that's better
PerlJam: not as a method
sub($x as Str) { ... } # coerces $x to Str
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PerlJam I never know where to draw the line on context sensitivity. It still seems that using "as" for two different things (even though in different contexts) could cause confusion. 14:39
moritz_ maybe the solution is really to introduce a new Str type for every unicode level 14:40
we have Buf for the byte level already
PerlJam my only reaction to that is "yuck" :)
moritz_ we could have Codes and Graphs, and they can do Str
PerlJam and Words and Sentences too! 14:41
moritz_ Perl 5 showed how bad it was two have two different levels (bytes vs. codes) in one type (SV)
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PerlJam I still look at it as you have one thing that has many potential representations. I don't care what the underlying implementation does as long as I can get the representation I want. 14:43
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PerlJam anyway, what makes the most sense to me is that $string.chars returns a list of characters and $string.bytes returns a list of bytes and that to actually get a count, you evaluate in a numeric context. 14:47
moritz_ think about performance for a moment... :/ 14:48
PerlJam I'll leave that to an optimizer :)
masak moritz_: is it a much heavier operation to collect the bytes/codes/chars than to count them? 14:51
for what it's worth, there have been times when I've been thinking PerlJam's thought too. 14:52
PerlJam unless someone comes up with something wonderful, the other way makes less sense. why have all of these ways to count the number of bytes,chars,graphemes,etc. in a string with a less-than-obvious way to get the actual bytes, chars, graphemes, etc.
moritz_ masak: at least it needs much more memory
masak moritz_: true.
moritz_ O(n) vs. O(1)
masak 对对对 14:55
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payload i try to get the example/adventure running in rakudo 15:08
the error messages are no help ^^
masak no, they often aren't. 15:09
xinming_ masak: LOL at 对对对 15:10
masak xinming_: sometimes I think in Mandarin. :)
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xinming_ masak: I really suggest people who use perl learn Chinese. :-) 15:11
payload even no line numbers... :-/
masak I think the closest translation to English would be 'nodnodnod' or 'rightrightright'...
15:11 Chillance left
xinming_ masak: yeayeayea~~~~ 15:11
Or, Oh-Yea~~~
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xinming_ BTW, the reason I laugh at 对对对 is because, Who are you talking to. :-) 15:12
TimToady us
masak :)
we're polyglots in here. Mandarin, Slovak, Lolspeak... it's all the same. 15:13
TimToady or should I say
我們
pugs_svn r27118 | moritz++ | [examples] fix small error in adventure.pl
masak TimToady: not if you're speaking to a mainlander. 15:14
then it's 我们
TimToady 我们 then
PerlJam is just an american who has picked up bits and pieces of other languages. 15:15
xinming_ masak: I can read that, traditional Chinese and Simpleified chinese is easy for Chinese people to read.
pugs_svn r27119 | moritz++ | [examples] use input method that Rakudo understands
PerlJam (I have no clue about Chinese though)
masak TimToady: 对了 :)
moritz_ wtf?
positional inside named args at position 2
in regex Adventure::command (adventure.pl:9)
TimToady masak: :) 15:16
masak xinming_: yes, you're right. I kinda envy you that -- I have to work a lot to get the traditional ones right.
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pugs_svn r27120 | moritz++ | [examples] fix grammar usage 15:17
moritz_ uuh, I found another rakudobug 15:18
run 'perl6 adventure.pl' and enter "west" at the prompt
it says "Lexical '%map' not found"
masak tries
moritz_ %map is only used in two places 15:19
and in both of them it should be lexically visible
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payload moritz_: cause of the module main; 15:19
moritz_ payload: ah, yes
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moritz_ then it's a known bug 15:20
15:20 eMaX left
payload :-\ 15:20
pugs_svn r27121 | moritz++ | [examples] work around rakudo bug
15:20 canol left
moritz_ ok, it does very simple operations now 15:20
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xinming_ masak: I envy you that you read technical documentation much easier than me. :-P 15:21
15:21 xinming_ is now known as xinming
masak xinming: I guess all the envy evens out. :P 15:21
xinming masak: for the tradition -> simplified or vice versa, You just just need to read more and be careful when you meet a radical on one side of a character 15:23
masak xinming: that's certainly true for a large percentage of the characters out there. 15:24
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xinming There is no need to write both version of them, You only need to get one portion right. People can read easily, but remember to not to mix them, some people will go crazy. 15:25
masak xinming: I won't mix, I promise.
xinming: but I think I'll need to be able to read both.
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TimToady sometimes in Japanese you get yet a third variant 15:30
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masak oh? 15:31
TimToady 齊 vs 齐 vs 斉
payload moritz_: well this workaround doesnt make the adventure compile but not fun ^^ pastebin.com/d341b7bb1 15:33
TimToady or 龜 vs 龟 vs 亀
masak traditional, simplified, and... quirky? :)
moritz_ payload: I know, I just wanted to give you a head start
payload allready on it ^^
moritz_ uhm, why doesn't this error message contain a line number? 15:34
rakudo: .[1]
p6eval rakudo 9dc941: OUTPUT«Method 'postcircumfix:[ ]' not found for invocant of class 'Failure'␤»
moritz_ masak: care to bugreport it?
TimToady 單 vs 单 vs 単
masak moritz_: okie. 15:35
masak bug-reports
sometimes I think that Failure should really allow itself to be indexed with [] and {}, and just return another Failure. 15:36
TimToady and 壓 vs 压 vs 圧
masak that would be more in line with Perl 5.
TimToady: did Japan have two waves of simplification?
TimToady I don't think there are enough examples to call it a wave, quite 15:38
masak then whence the three variants?
TimToady I only have one other example, which is
爾 vs 尔 vs 尓
masak the difference between the last two is very slight in my font. 15:39
TimToady I'd guess there were probably already some "abbreviations" in use when they were borrowed
masak ah. makes sense. 15:41
TimToady the last one could just be a miscopying
but by and large Japanese uses the traditional forms 15:42
as for actual waves of borrowing, I think there were about three 15:43
with the result that some characters have several different "chinese" pronunciations
masak that goes for the Hanzi, too.
TimToady depending on the state of the evolution of chinese when they were borrowed
15:43 xinming left
TimToady in the case of Hanzi it might be the rediffusion of dialectal differences brought about by rate skew 15:44
centers of population have much faster language change than the outlying areas 15:45
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masak might be. and the mutation clock ticks differently for different characters too, it seems. 15:45
TimToady and the closest we have to elizabethan english is actually in appalachia
15:45 eMaX joined
[particle] word. 15:46
TimToady well, if I keep gabbing I'll never finish backlogging...
masak The gabbing is to 阳 as the backlogging is to 阴... :) 15:47
TimToady heh, didn't recognize those since Japanese uses the traditional 15:48
but they make sense
masak they do indeed. 15:49
masak looks up the traditional ones
TimToady traditional uses radicals I call "sunny" and "murky" 15:50
masak ...which also makes sense.
given the etymology of Yang and Yin.
15:50 CarlJ joined
masak "the sunny/shady side of a brook or hill" 15:50
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TimToady yes, I call 阝 "mound" 15:51
(when it's on the left, and "city" on the right) 15:52
masak 对.
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TimToady murky 侌 has "now" on top and "roil" on the bottom, cf 雲 cloud 15:54
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masak clouds are notoriously murky. 15:55
alester renewed rakudo.org today 15:56
I like playing chicken with the registrar.
TimToady bock bock # I also speak chicken 15:57
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[particle] yes, but do you use the chicken unicode characters? 16:00
TimToady sure, but they all look like scratches to me 16:01
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dalek kudo: 6765def | pmichaud++ | docs/spectest-progress.csv:
spectest-progress.csv update: 404 files, 11536 passing, 0 failing
 16:07
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moritz_ does a spectest now with parrot's release version 16:12
rakudo: my $b = 2; $b R/= 24; say 2 16:17
p6eval rakudo 9dc941: OUTPUT«No applicable methods.␤in Main (/tmp/rtwrpAXhvJ:2)␤»
moritz_ rakudo: my $b = 2; $b R/= 24; say $b
p6eval rakudo 9dc941: OUTPUT«No applicable methods.␤in Main (/tmp/g21j0NicpH:2)␤»
moritz_ should that work (and print out 12)?
std: rakudo: my $b = 2; $b R/= 24; say $b
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p6eval std 27121: OUTPUT«##### PARSE FAILED #####␤Can't reverse a multiplicative because it's too fiddly at /tmp/2a9QuoXPOD line 1:␤------> rakudo: my $b = 2; $b R/= 24; say $b␤FAILED 00:02 36m␤» 16:17
TimToady actually, I think it's complaining about reversing an assignop 16:18
despte the mention of "multiplicative"
azawawi hi
TimToady azawawi: your .parse('') bug is not obvious, but I'll explore further 16:19
seems to blow up somewhere down in LTM for $
azawawi std: module JSON::String { } 16:20
p6eval std 27121: OUTPUT«panic: unexpected package name &JSON::String␤ok 00:02 35m␤»
TimToady look like it's confused about Foo vs &Foo somehow 16:21
but it does say "ok"
azawawi TimToady: also that's not neither an error nor a warning 16:22
TimToady yeah, it's just a 'say' 16:23
basically means that when we generate &Foo from Foo, nobody's bothering to handle :: correctly
so the name '&JSON::String' is getting poked into the symbol table directly 16:24
rather than poking &String into our version of the JSON symbol table
which is what ought to happen, I think 16:25
that is, MY<JSON::><&String> 16:26
azawawi TimToady: i caught it while getting strange Storable thawing version errors in Padre Perl 6 plugin. I call a separate process in a background thread to perform the redspans....
TimToady :: doesn't automatically mean start in GLOBAL:: as it does in p5 16:27
azawawi i see 16:28
TimToady especially if you're declaring something, it should be rooted in the current lexical space
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pugs_svn r27122 | pmichaud++ | [t/spec]: Change an isa_ok to use a type instead of a Str. 17:48
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pugs_svn r27123 | lwall++ | [Cursor] fix azawawi++'s .parse('') bug 17:56
lichtkind qw translates to Q :w // ? 17:58
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TimToady Q:q:w actually 17:59
lichtkind ah thanks 18:00
translates nicely
that elegance i like on perl 6
PerlJam TimToady: does that make << >> equivalent of Q:qq:w ? 18:01
pmichaud :ww, I think
TimToady Q:q:ww I think
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pmichaud Q:qq:ww I thought 18:01
TimToady yes :qq:ww
token quote:sym<« »> { '«' <nibble($¢.cursor_fresh( %*LANG<Q> ).tweak(:qq).tweak(:ww).balanced('«','»'))> '»' } 18:02
[particle] checks STD for Q:snowman:comet 18:03
PerlJam heh
TimToady that's just <quibble($¢.cursor_fresh( %*LANG<Q> ).tweak(:q))> 18:04
PerlJam perl6 is almost onomatopoeic .... nibble tweak tweak 18:05
TimToady well, that's what would parse q☃...☄
lichtkind [particle]: is there really a snowman in STD ? 18:06
Tene Now... why is snowman paired with comet?
TimToady rakudo: say q☃...☄
p6eval rakudo 6765de: OUTPUT«Statement not terminated properly at line 2, near "\u2603...\u2604"␤in Main (src/gen_setting.pm:0)␤»
PerlJam Tene: because certain #perl6 denizens are insane :)
TimToady actually, the problem was in ranges 18:07
pmichaud actually, in regexes
RT #66498
TimToady regexes, they both begin with r
Tene oh, that's a range.
pmichaud rakudo: say "abc" ~~ regex ☃...☄ 18:08
p6eval rakudo 6765de: OUTPUT«Malformed regex definition at line 2, near "\u2603...\u2604"␤in Main (src/gen_setting.pm:0)␤»
pmichaud rakudo: say "abc" ~~ rx ☃...☄
p6eval rakudo 6765de: OUTPUT«abc␤»
TimToady there you go
pmichaud rakudo: say "abc" ~~ m ☃...☄
p6eval rakudo 6765de: OUTPUT«abc␤»
TimToady rakudo: say "abc" ~~ m ☃...☎ 18:09
p6eval rakudo 6765de: OUTPUT«abc␤»
TimToady rakudo: say "abc" ~~ m /...☎
p6eval rakudo 6765de: OUTPUT«abc␤»
TimToady just not very picky, is it...
PerlJam Is there a white telephone to go with the black one?
TimToady rakudo: say "abc" ~~ m /...☏ 18:10
p6eval rakudo 6765de: OUTPUT«abc␤»
PerlJam rakudo say "abc" ~~ m .....
rakudo: say "abc" ~~ m .....
mj41 www.perlmonks.org/?node_id=772603 Perl 6 and Web Development by jdrago_999
p6eval rakudo 6765de: OUTPUT«Statement not terminated properly at line 2, near ".."␤in Main (src/gen_setting.pm:0)␤»
PerlJam It's a little picky 18:11
TimToady std: say "abc" ~~ m .....
p6eval std 27123: OUTPUT«##### PARSE FAILED #####␤Can't understand next input--giving up at /tmp/FIiTRKmfYd line 1:␤------> ␤ expecting any of:␤ infix or meta-infix (with precedence tighter than list infix)␤ prefix or noun␤Undeclared routine:␤ m used at 1 1 ␤FAILED 00:04 38m␤»
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sbp rakudo: say "abc" ~~ m /…☏ 18:11
p6eval rakudo 6765de: OUTPUT«Statement not terminated properly at line 2, near "/\u2026\u260f"␤in Main (src/gen_setting.pm:0)␤»
pmichaud hmmm. I just got an inquiry from sdtimes -- they want to interview me about Perl 6 and Parrot.
TimToady San Diego? 18:12
pmichaud yes.
Tene google sdtimes
pmichaud the same group that published www.sdtimes.com/link/33186
moritz_ uhm, their homepage is... borked
pmichaud (but not the same writer/author, it seems) 18:13
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moritz_ that links only gives me "Server Error in '/' Application." 18:13
pmichaud moritz_: odd. It works for me.
moritz_ both in opera and iceweasel 18:15
Tene WFM
pmichaud: going to take the interview? 18:16
pmichaud Yes, likely.
I can't think of any good reasons not to.
this inquiry appears to be coming from a "Senior Editor" so
it sounds like a good idea to me. 18:17
PerlJam pmichaud: It's an ambush. They're going to ask you all sorts of positive sounding questions then write the article in such a way to make the answers sound horrendous.
How about that ?
:-)
sbp answer their questions only in PIR 18:18
pmichaud PerlJam: I thought about that possibility, yes. But that doesn't strike me as a "good reason" yet :-)
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PerlJam pmichaud: well, at least you'll get a chance to spread the word about perl6 and the community and how people can participate 18:20
pmichaud Exactly.
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payload how can i take all but the last item of an array? 18:33
rakudo: say (1,2,3,4)[0..*-2]
p6eval rakudo 6765de: OUTPUT«123␤»
moritz_ it's... magic
rakudo: say (0..*-2).perl 18:34
payload hope so ^^
p6eval rakudo 6765de: OUTPUT«{ ... }␤»
payload :-\
moritz_ rakudo: say (0..*-2).(10).perl
p6eval rakudo 6765de: OUTPUT«0..8␤»
moritz_ it's a closure returning a range
payload 0..*-2 for all but last?!
the -2 strikes me 18:35
moritz_ -1 is the last item
which is what you want when you do @a[*-1]
pugs_svn r27124 | lwall++ | [STD] Makefile now has 'snap' target for transactional snapshot in snap/ 18:36
payload yeah, but i thought there was something shorter to make (1,2,3) out of (1,2,3,4)
TimToady moritz_: are you on feather?
payload in python ^^ [:-1]
moritz_ TimToady: no, on timtowtdi.org ;-) 18:37
TimToady: I can give you an account, or do it myself
TimToady we need to update the cron to do 'make snap'
I have an account, just not sure where it runs
moritz_ ... and run STD.pm in snap/
TimToady run tryfile in snap
moritz_ on timtowtdi.org?
TimToady wherever evalbot runs 18:38
should prevent the (no output)s
moritz_ it's in /chroot/home/evalenv/
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TimToady I don't think I have an account on timtowtdi 18:39
moritz_ TimToady: if 'make snap' wouldn't run tryfile STD.pm, the build would be much faster ;-) 18:40
pugs_svn r27125 | moritz++ | [evalbot] run STD.pm in snap/
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TimToady tryfile STD is what builds up most of lex 18:40
moritz_ ah, so it's necessary 18:41
TimToady well, if you want the cache preloaded, which might prevent a few races
moritz_ test -d snap && mv snap snap.old 18:42
make: *** [snap] Error 1
TimToady but since building it is part of the snapshot, it no longer is on the critical path for evalbot
heh
I guess it wants a -f then
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moritz_ tries with -f 18:43
TimToady course, it already moved lex/... 18:44
so will probably rebuild it again
or blow up on the mkdir
feel free to Make It Work :)
I have verified that once it's happy, you can make new snapshots without clobbering an existing t/ test 18:45
though the test targets don't make use of the snapshot yet 18:46
should probably throw an rm -rf snap.new before the mkdir, I suppose 18:47
but basically, it's doing a poor man's install
moritz_ I'll play a bit with it 18:48
TimToady thanks 18:49
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pugs_svn r27126 | moritz++ | [STD.pm] make "make snap" work for me. 18:54
moritz_ std: 1 18:55
p6eval std 27126: ( no output )
TimToady orz
pulling output from wrong dir?
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moritz_ std: 1 18:57
p6eval std 27126: ( no output )
moritz_ sh: line 1: 21631 CPU time limit exceeded /usr/bin/perl tryfile /tmp/RnliDbJR3C >> /tmp/0uanAUGeM7 2>&1
TimToady another reason to prebuild the cache... 18:58
std: 1 18:59
pugs_svn r27127 | moritz++ | [evalbot] tweak CPU limit a bit
p6eval std 27126: OUTPUT«ok 00:02 35m␤»
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TimToady maybe rebuilding CORE.pad.store 18:59
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TimToady we could copy that down to snap as well to avoid rebuild 19:00
payload i fixed adventure.pl for rakudo pastebin.com/m1aaadf3a
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moritz_ payload: if you tell me your email address I can give you commit access to the pugs repo 19:01
payload: then you can push your fixes
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pugs_svn r27128 | moritz++ | [STD.pm] also copy CORE.pad.store 19:03
pmichaud rakudo: say (0,1,2,3)[^*-1] 19:04
p6eval rakudo 6765de: OUTPUT«Use of uninitialized value␤␤»
pmichaud oh, we don't have prefix:^ handling whatevercode yet.
moritz_ wouldn't you need ^(*-1) anyway?
pmichaud probably.
payload moritz_: [email@hidden.address] 19:05
pmichaud however
rakudo: say (0,1,2,3)[0..^*-1]
p6eval rakudo 6765de: OUTPUT«012␤»
pmichaud there.
"up to but not including the last element"
TimToady more readable anyway
moritz_ payload: you've got mail
payload rakudo: say (1,2,3,4)[0..^*]
p6eval rakudo 6765de: OUTPUT«1234␤»
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moritz_ payload: it's a custom to add yourself to AUTHORS in the first commit, to test the commit bit 19:06
TimToady it's also a custom to tell people that on IRC rather than having the email say it :)
I think it's a good custom, actually. 19:07
lichtkind whats that quote protection in :ww ?
TimToady it means "make it work like shell quotes" :)
pmichaud lichtkind: my $b = 'foo bar'; say <<$b>>.elems; #(2) say <<"$b">>.elems; #(1) 19:08
rakudo: my $b = 'foo bar'; say <<$b>>.elems;
p6eval rakudo 6765de: OUTPUT«1␤»
pmichaud argggggh
rakudo--
TimToady with an emphasis on the "make it work" part :P
pmichaud getting that to work like shell quotes is fairly tricky, fwiw. 19:09
lichtkind so i can use "" within qw ?
TimToady or ''
lichtkind shure
thanks a lot
TimToady presumably just like sh or maybe bash
presumably *not* like csh
lichtkind my $*OS eq 'XP' 19:10
TimToady and probably not including `cmd`
pmichaud I need to look at what STD produces for a parse in that case, but in rakudo's quasi-quote-parser it's a bit of a challenge to process the interpolated parts as things stand now. :-|
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TimToady I suspect STD mostly punts on that one 19:10
pmichaud Then Rakudo is following STD here. :-P 19:11
sjohnson try not to catch an STD 19:12
pmichaud afk for a while
pugs_svn r27129 | lwall++ | [STD] s/comb/words/ on 2 fossils 19:14
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lichtkind TimToady++ 19:16
moritz++
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lichtkind if pmichaud would be here he would also get :) 19:17
TimToady std: rx 𪚥...𪚥 19:18
p6eval std 27129: OUTPUT«ok 00:03 36m␤»
TimToady that's funny, the log seems to be missing the ... 19:19
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TimToady std: rx 𪚥abcde𪚥 19:20
p6eval std 27129: OUTPUT«ok 00:02 35m␤»
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TimToady oh, looks like my browser has that character as 0-width 19:21
you'd think it'd know that a chinese character with 64 strokes would have some width...
copy/pastes okay though 19:22
so just a rendering glitch
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TimToady ilbot++ 19:23
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lichtkind at least quaoting ops are now cirrect in A 19:24
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pugs_svn r27130 | azawawi++ | [S:H:P6] Added an STD->parse('') test. TimToady++ 19:30
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pugs_svn r27131 | azawawi++ | [S:H:P6] version 0.62 contains the STD->parse(\s*) not undefined fix 19:40
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rindolf Hi all. 20:33
20:33 justatheory joined
rindolf TimToady: here? 20:33
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pugs_svn r27132 | payload++ | made adventure runnable for rakudo 21:02
payload karma
moritz_ @karma payload
lambdabot payload has a karma of 1
payload @karma moritz_
lambdabot moritz_ has a karma of 72
moritz_ @karma moritz 21:03
lambdabot moritz has a karma of 680
payload :D
21:03 justatheory left
moritz_ my svn user name is moritz, so that's where I get the karma for commits 21:04
pyrimidine I have a grammar question 21:06
21:07 lichtkind left
pyrimidine I am testing out a few grammars for some bioinformatics stuff (perl6 versions of bioperl) 21:07
Are grammars capable of ratcheting through a file sequentially, a chunk (in this case, a sequence record) at a time? 21:08
something akin to:
21:08 lichtkind joined
pyrimidine while Bio::Grammar::Fasta.parsefile('data.fas', :action($action)) { say $/; } 21:08
but maybe with file handles vs files in this case 21:09
21:09 justatheory joined
moritz_ not yet 21:10
pyrimidine (the above in Rakudo is an infinite loop printing the first record in the file)
ok
moritz_ it's specced to work with "cat" objects
see S05
21:10 hercynium left
moritz_ there's a section about matching non-strings 21:10
pyrimidine got it
ruoso later ^ 21:13
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lichtkind is there a rx in perl 6? 21:14
pyrimidine moritz_: That seems specific for regexes using ~~. How would that work with a grammar? I'm guessing via Bio::Grammar::Fasta.parse($stream, :actions($foo))?
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moritz_ lichtkind: yes 21:14
pyrimidine: not sure, but it might work that way 21:15
pyrimidine moritz_: that would make the most sense, at least to me
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lichtkind moritz_: sorry tried to do to much at once i mean qx? 21:16
pyrimidine just realized how much that simplifies 90% of bioperl...
moritz_ lichtkind: yes
lichtkind moritz_: works the same?
moritz_ lichtkind: it's not interpolating by default
lichtkind moritz_: like Q :x of course
moritz_ lichtkind: right 21:17
pyrimidine wow, that gave me the angry scary emoticon on my irc client 21:18
moritz_: I'm guessing that Cat is awaiting some of the lazy implementation issues? 21:19
moritz_ pyrimidine: that, and improvements to the regex engine 21:21
pyrimidine moritz_: LTM (again a guess)
moritz_ pyrimidine: no, not this time ;-) 21:22
lichtkind moritz_: Q :q :x wouldnt make sanse :) 21:27
sense
moritz_ lichtkind: why not? 21:28
lichtkind moritz_: quote slashes inside the code? 21:29
common get real :)
pmurias lichtkind: what were your smop questions?
pyrimidine ok, well I can at least get a head start on the simple grammars. We have a few souls on the bioinformatics side who would like it to be Christmas
thx
lichtkind pmurias: right 21:30
pmurias: got that msg? 21:31
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lichtkind is there a block modificator called subst 21:59
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moritz_ there's a builtin called subst 22:02
rakudo: say 'abc'.subst(/b/, 2)
p6eval rakudo 6765de: OUTPUT«a2c␤»
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lichtkind moritz_: yes i saw it now on the other page 22:07
moritz_: i guess i have spend more hours every day on that to get it all right 22:08
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lichtkind complaining suckz 22:09
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dalek kudo: 5948c11 | pmichaud++ | (3 files):
Allow Parrot VERSION to be used in cases when the svn revision

or non-svn checkout).		 22:13
kudo: 99cad48 | pmichaud++ | docs/ (2 files):
Documentation updates for release.
kudo: 7c981fc | pmichaud++ | docs/announce/2009-06:
More announcement updates.
kudo: c9d76a9 | pmichaud++ | README:
Formatting fix.
22:13 eternaleye left
22:15 dukeleto left
dalek kudo: 1b06df8 | pmichaud++ | docs/ (2 files):
More news.
 22:18
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DanielC Who is Martin D Kealey? He just asked me to explain how to use IRC. 22:49
moritz_ markmail.org/message/moke4dfb54r2szq7 apparently a casual p6l reader/writer 22:50
DanielC *click*
moritz_ www.kurahaupo.gen.nz/~martin/cv.cgi
DanielC From his CV, he seems knowledgeable. I'm surprised he didn't know how to use IRC. 22:51
No matter. I was happy to help. 22:52
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pugs_svn r27133 | payload++ | added myself 23:02
23:04 netfish left
lichtkind thanks folks 23:11
im out for now
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