»ö« | perl6.org/ | nopaste: paste.lisp.org/new/perl6 | evalbot usage: 'perl6: say 3;' or rakudo: / pugs: / std: , or /msg p6eval perl6: ... | irclog: irc.pugscode.org/ | UTF-8 is our friend!
Set by wolfe.freenode.net on 30 October 2009.
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ash_ colomon: well, i'll look into it to see if i can narrow it down 00:16
_bob_k master builds fine with the latest parrot trunk for me 00:18
_bob_k ash_: Interesting. Which platform and such are you on?
ash_ os x 10.6.2, apple gcc 4.2, 64-bit if that makes a difference 00:19
_bob_k OK, so what can I do from here? 00:20
ash_ a bug report would be good 00:21
_bob_k Got an URL?
ash_ email perl6-bugs at perl.org the 00:23
the bug report
it automattically adds it in from there and notifies people
_bob_k Will do.
Thanks for your help ash_ and colomon.
ash_ the bug tracker is at: rt.perl.org/rt3/Public if you want to take a look around and see if you can find any other bug reports like yours
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Wolfman2000 sorry for not being here in awhile. Finally got my school schedule figured out. 01:32
Did anything recent take place with Perl 6 development within the past few weeks? 01:33
Juerd I think that everything that took place within the past few weeks can be classified as recent. 01:34
Wolfman2000 I'm a bit behind on what took place. 01:35
Juerd Join the club :)
Wolfman2000 fair enough
Juerd I still feel I'm years behind
I wonder if I will ever catch up 01:36
Wolfman2000 and yet you develop it directly
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Juerd juerd.nl/i/5e6f1b41fb0beb7f878d01fe3b069776.png 01:53
Is googlebot killing feather, indirectly?
Oh my 01:57
I understand why generating the timeline is so consuming
juerd.nl/i/837c8ca338c036903129875e8147f0c0.png
svnweb re-enabled, trac disabled 01:59
diakopter I got chided the other week for disabling dev.pugscode.org 02:00
Juerd: ^^ 02:01
Juerd I don't know what chided means but it's probably no good 02:02
Whoever finds and fixes the cause, can reenable it afterwards :) 02:03
diakopter amen
chide: To scold mildly so as to correct or improve; reprimand 02:04
Juerd Ah
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colomon ng: my $a = list; say $a.WHAT 02:27
p6eval ng b65331: List()␤ 02:28
colomon ng: my $a = list; say $a.elems
p6eval ng b65331: 0␤
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colomon defining my own List.new doesn't seem to help; it just doesn't get called when you say List .new. 02:35
:(
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scp1 ng: sub postfix:<!>($n) { [*] 1..$n }; say [+] gather { for 3..50_00 -> $x { if $x == [+](map { $^a! }, $x.comb()) { take $x; } } } 04:07
p6eval ng b65331: Unable to parse blockoid, couldn't find final '}' at line 1␤current instr.: 'perl6;Regex;Cursor;FAILGOAL' pc 1664 (src/stage0/Regex-s0.pir:907)␤
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diakopter hum dee dum 05:56
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sjohnson rakudo: say 'hi' 06:01
p6eval rakudo 3867ff: hi␤ 06:02
diakopter ng: {}()=0 06:09
p6eval ng b65331: Null PMC access in getprop()␤current instr.: '&infix:<=>' pc 14291 (src/builtins/Junction.pir:113)␤
diakopter ng: {}()()=0
p6eval ng b65331: Null PMC access in invoke()␤current instr.: '_block14' pc 29 (EVAL_1:0)␤
diakopter ng: {}()[0]=0
p6eval ng b65331: Null PMC access in can()␤current instr.: '!postcircumfix:<[ ]>' pc 278104 (src/gen/core.pir:33442)␤
diakopter ng: { { { { { Mu } } } } }()() 06:11
p6eval ng b65331: invoke() not implemented in class 'Mu'␤current instr.: '_block14' pc 29 (EVAL_1:0)␤
diakopter ng: multi token() { }; token infix:<token> { }; 06:21
p6eval ng b65331: Method 'isa' not found for invocant of class 'Undef'␤current instr.: 'perl6;Perl6;Actions;_block956' pc 145792 (src/gen/perl6-grammar.pir:29583)␤
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saschi good morning 07:02
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Su-Shee good morning 07:12
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jaldhar Good morning. Anyone know why when building the latest rakudo, I get "No ICU lib loaded" when trying to do unicode stuff? 07:48
I do have ubuntus' libicu-dev package installed 07:49
e.g. say "\c[GUJARATI LETTER JA]"; gives the error 07:50
Tene jaldhar: your parrot was probably compiled without ICU enabled. Check the configure output. 07:53
jaldhar ah parrot. Yes I noticed it didn't download parrot so it must be using the old ubuntu parrot or one of my previous experiments. 07:55
Will try again...
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Tene Yes, that would do it. :) 07:55
Glad to help.
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jaldhar say "\c[GUJARATI LETTER JA]\c[GUJARATI LETTER LA]\c[GUJARATI LETTER DHA]\c[GUJARATI LETTER RA]"; 08:12
જલધર
\o/ 08:13
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diakopter ja la dha ra 08:14
oh. heh
jaldhar yeah. Gujaratis typically don't pronounce the a at the end of syllables which is why the English transliteration of my name is missing a couple 08:15
sjohnson snurghi 08:16
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jaldhar trans substitutes one character in an array with a character from another. Which operator does one to many mapping? 09:28
moritz_ jaldhar: also trans
jaldhar hmm...
moritz_ rakudo: say 'abc'.trans([<a b c>] => [12, 34, 56]) 09:29
p6eval rakudo 3867ff: 123456␤
moritz_ rakudo: say 'aba'.trans([<a b c>] => [12, 34, 56])
p6eval rakudo 3867ff: 123412␤
moritz_ hugme: list projects 09:30
hugme moritz_: I know about book, gge, hugme, ilbot, json, november, nqp-rx, nqpbook, perl6-examples, proto, svg-matchdumper, svg-plot, temporal-flux-perl6syn, tufte, web
jaldhar moritz: 09:33
my @tr = ( "\C[DEVANAGARI LETTER JA]" => 'ja' );
my $s = "\C[DEVANAGARI LETTER JA]";
$s.trans(@tr).say;
doesn't give 'ja'. 09:34
moritz_ that's because you're passing an array, not a pair 09:35
rakudo: my @tr = ( "\C[DEVANAGARI LETTER JA]" => 'ja' ); my $s = "\C[DEVANAGARI LETTER JA]"; $s.trans(|@tr).say; 09:36
p6eval rakudo 3867ff: jaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa␤
moritz_ wtf?
jaldhar yup
moritz_ rakudo: say "\c[DEVANAGARI LETTER JA]" 09:37
p6eval rakudo 3867ff: ज␤
moritz_ rakudo: say "\C[DEVANAGARI LETTER JA]"
p6eval rakudo 3867ff: C[DEVANAGARI LETTER JA]␤
moritz_ jaldhar: that's the problem
jaldhar: you need to use a lower-case \c
\C only makes sense in regexes, iirc
jaldhar but I am using \c 09:38
moritz_ 10:33 < jaldhar> my @tr = ( "\C[DEVANAGARI LETTER JA]" => 'ja' ); 09:39
that's a capital C
not c
rakudo: my @tr = ( "\c[DEVANAGARI LETTER JA]" => 'ja' ); my $s = "\c[DEVANAGARI LETTER JA]"; $s.trans(|@tr).say;
p6eval rakudo 3867ff: j␤
jaldhar hmm my IRC client capitalized it? It is definitely \c in my code
moritz_ then it's time to get another IRC client :-) 09:40
jaldhar and it should give ja not j
moritz_ that I agree with
rakudo: my @tr = ( "\c[DEVANAGARI LETTER JA]" => 'ja' ); my $s = "\c[DEVANAGARI LETTER JA]"; $s.trans(@tr[0]).say; 09:41
p6eval rakudo 3867ff: j␤
moritz_ rakudo: my @tr = ( "\c[DEVANAGARI LETTER JA]" => 'ja' ); my $s = "\c[DEVANAGARI LETTER JA]"; $s.trans(|@tr[0]).say;
p6eval rakudo 3867ff: flattened parameters must be a hash or array␤in Main (file <unknown>, line <unknown>)␤
moritz_ rakudo: "\c[DEVANAGARI LETTER JA]".trans(["\c[DEVANAGARI LETTER JA]"] => "ja").say 09:42
p6eval rakudo 3867ff: j␤
moritz_ rakudo: "\c[DEVANAGARI LETTER JA]".trans(["\c[DEVANAGARI LETTER JA]"] => ["ja"]).say
p6eval rakudo 3867ff: ja␤
moritz_ jaldhar: ah
jaldhar: if the RHS of the pair is an array, it uses the array elements
jaldhar: if it's a string, it uses the first character of the string
that's... confusing and not very DWIMmy 09:43
but it conforms to the spec 09:44
perlcabal.org/syn/S05.html#Transliteration
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jaldhar even with an array I still get only j 09:46
oh wait
one last question. In the line 09:54
$line.comb.trans(@tr).join('').say
The output still gives a space between each character group. i.e. ja la dha ra 09:55
how do I supress that?
moritz_ leave out the .comb
it splits it into characters, and returns a list
and then calling .trans on it treats it as a string again
and the default joining uses a space as the separator 09:56
jaldhar ok got it. The last time I tried it, rakudo needed the comb to split the line into characters.
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avar 6/w 4 10:22
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jnthn morning #perl6 10:32
Juerd Good morning!
frettled Good #perl6! 10:33
10:33 frettled sets mode: +o jnthn
Juerd frettled: It appears not to have been svnweb, but trac instead 10:33
frettled aha
So no more bugtracking. ;) 10:34
moritz_ I think taking down trac wouldn't hurt too much
Juerd juerd.nl/i/5e6f1b41fb0beb7f878d01fe3b069776.png
moritz_ basically it's just spam
Juerd juerd.nl/i/837c8ca338c036903129875e8147f0c0.png
frettled eh, urh, yes
Juerd Digging up that timeline takes a long time, and when Googlebot does that for many dates at once, boom.
frettled Juerd: so it was just a red herring that the webserver was busy in the /svnweb/ directory when using lots of memory, I see. 10:35
Juerd I think so
I had disabled svnweb and then the gigantic load increase happened again
frettled Elimination works :) 10:36
Juerd Now let's hope that either nobody really needs trac, or someone can fix it. 10:37
02:59 <@diakopter> I got chided the other week for disabling dev.pugscode.org
03:01 <@diakopter> Juerd: ^^
03:02 <@Juerd> I don't know what chided means but it's probably no good
03:02 <@Juerd> Whoever finds and fixes the cause, can reenable it afterwards :)
(dev.pugscode.org is trac)
frettled aha 10:38
If someone feels like implementing captcha plus a hidden input field that must be empty, then that could help a lot. 10:39
jaldhar I can't resist...one more question. If I wanted to make an array of pairs out of two arrays. Is this the right way to go about it? @c = @a >>=><< @b;
?
frettled The trick is to hide the input field with CSS; web scrapers don't know what to make of that.
Juerd Ehm 10:40
Most web scrapers don't even see css, so they don't see it's hidden either.
And it's likely that they have a prefab spam template for trac anyway
moritz_ rakudo: say (<a b> »=>« <c d>).perl
p6eval rakudo 3867ff: Confused at line 2, near "\x{bb}=>\x{ab} <c d>"␤in Main (file <unknown>, line <unknown>)␤
huf so add some js trickery to it
frettled Juerd: that's the point 10:41
Juerd huf: Do you feel like implementing this? :)
moritz_ jaldhar: I think it should work
Juerd frettled: Oh. Then I don't understand how it would work ;)
frettled Juerd: if the field has values in it, it means it's spam
Juerd Ah!
frettled usually, they fill it with junk values
moritz_ rakudo: say %(<a b> Z <c d>).pairs.perl
Juerd That's a smart trick
p6eval rakudo 3867ff: ( no output )
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frettled huf: javascript is bad because it means that paranoid people can't use your website. 10:42
moritz_ jaldhar: the trick with the zip operator works locally, I have no idea why p6eval doesn't like it
huf frettled: yeah, i knew that was going to come up ;)
w3m users ftw
frettled I just use NoScript when using Firefox.
moritz_ jaldhar: (and need to apologize for asking, these are interesting questions)
frettled In Opera, I disable JS by default, and then edit site preferences for trusted websites. 10:43
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jaldhar moritz: I hope my questions help in some way. I'll brb and try your suggestions. 10:44
jnthn std: <a b c> >>=><< (1,2,3) 10:49
p6eval std 29531: ok 00:01 108m␤
jnthn Probably should work, then...
frettled std: <a b c> »=>« (1,2,3) 10:52
p6eval std 29531: ok 00:01 106m␤
frettled just checking ;)
moritz_ rakudo: say Pair.new('a', 'b').perl 10:53
p6eval rakudo 3867ff: undef => undef␤
frettled Is there an appropriate unicode symbol for =>, which is supported by Perl 6?
moritz_ nope
frettled ng: say Pair.new('a', 'b').perl
p6eval ng b65331: Pair.new(:key(Mu), :value(Mu))␤
Juerd Hm. Can't we just go one step further and use µ instead of Mu? :)
frettled But that's an important symbol! Quick, halt all development until we can fix that! ;) 10:54
Juerd: \o/
Juerd It's in latin1 even.
The meaning of Mu would get SO obscure :)
frettled Juerd: except that µ isn't «mu» :(
as if it wasn't obscure already :D
it could be a symbolic cow.
Juerd Good point there :)
No, that would be Moo 10:55
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frettled Yes, but the pronunciation is very nearly the same. :D 11:18
mathw Is there a cow in unicode?
moritz_ copy on write? :-) 11:19
mathw no, a cow that goes moo
moritz_ COW implemented in Moose? *g* 11:20
mathw argh
clintongormley in Perl6, cows go Mu 11:21
mathw Kopfschmerzen
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frettled besser als Herzschmerzen 11:25
moritz_ besser als Herzversagen :-) 11:26
mathw probably 11:32
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Su-Shee in Perl 6, there is no nothing, there is mu. 11:40
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Su-Shee isn't this something where a rakudo example blogged would nicely fit in? transfixedbutnotdead.com/2010/01/13...ogramming/ 11:48
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mathw Su-Shee: yes 11:52
sjohnson mu == nothingness in Japanese 11:53
huf but in english it means somethig different
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Su-Shee sjohnson: I know. :) 11:54
german cows say muh.
mathw english cows say moo
or sometimes mooooooo
if they're trying to get an urgent point across
Su-Shee yes, german cows can extend the u to muuuuuuuuh. 11:55
huf ours say "mú", unless they're fighting for the right of bovine freedom
Su-Shee huf: as long as they're not suddenly saying mü ;)
huf no, that's μ 11:56
saschi well
that's true
draegtun Su-Shee: Like this - gist.github.com/276591 11:57
Su-Shee draegtun: ah, yours anyway. :)
draegtun :-)
Su-Shee is looking forward to the book "metaprogramming in perl 6" and "higer order six" ;) 11:58
draegtun I have a question on my gist. How do you define dynamic methods in perl6? 11:59
ie. in Perl5: *{'subname'} = sub { ... };
lots of trawling didn't turn up anything :( 12:00
sjohnson well bed time!!! cya
moritz_ draegtun: it probably will work through the metaclass
jnthn draegtun: That'd be something done through the metamodel; Rakudo master doesn't provide a good way to do it yet. We've got a branch that would let you do it though, or almost would. 12:01
moritz_ draegtun: so you can say things like YourClass.^add_method('name', sub { ... })
draegtun mortiz_: can u give me some pointers to docs. I trawled for metaclass but couldn't find anything specific
moritz_: ah... tried something close to that.. let me just try it again :) 12:02
moritz_ as jnthn said, it probably doesn't quite work yet
draegtun: github.com/rakudo/rakudo/blob/ng/do...amodel.pod
draegtun just tested it and it does work! 12:05
moritz_ cool
draegtun: then you're encouraged to reply to transfixedbutnotdead.com/2010/01/13...ogramming/ :-)
draegtun I'm doing a followup post to that with Perl6 (re: gist) 12:06
moritz_ cool; please post the URL of your post here once you're done 12:07
draegtun btw: draegtun == transfixedbutnotdead :)
moritz_ oh
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Su-Shee though I really liked the blogname fingernailsinoatmeal 12:08
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draegtun I've just updated the gist with the ^add_method change 12:11
I'll do a blog on it later on or tomorrow morning
many thanks for you help moritz, jnthn 12:12
Su-Shee hm, the perl 6 example looks very nice, visually compared to the ruby and javascript code. 12:16
draegtun Su-Shee: Methinks so to 12:18
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Su-Shee and I really mean it, it just hit me how clean perl 6 looks. 12:20
draegtun Su-Shee: yep... I found it very intuitive. Everything worked as I expected. Only bumps in road was "is also" to reopen class (trawling web seemed to bring up "is augment*" most which didn't work) and the dynamic method (^add_method) 12:22
I love the: "$drew does ThrowStar;" bit 12:23
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moritz_ ng: class A { }; augment class A { method b { say "hi" } }; A.b() 12:24
p6eval ng b65331: hi␤
draegtun did try: $drew does role { ... };
but that didn't work
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moritz_ it's just rakudo (master branch) that's behind 12:25
std: my $drew; $drew does role { ... };
jnthn draegtun: It will in the future; anonymous roles are just not yet implemented.
p6eval std 29531: ok 00:01 109m␤
draegtun moritz_: yes came across that but I preferred class A is also {} Is there a difference?
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moritz_ draegtun: 'is also' is removed from the spec 12:26
draegtun moritz_: re: does role - Excellent... very intuitive
moritz_ draegtun: because it collides with a potential class named 'also'
draegtun moritz_: OK... I'll change that to "augment class A {}" then 12:27
moritz_ draegtun++ #nice blog post
draegtun++ # exploring Perl 6 12:28
draegtun moritz_: augment doesn't work for me in my version of rakudo :( 12:30
moritz_ draegtun: yes, it only works in the "ng" branch :/
draegtun moritz_: OK... I'll put that in the blog post about "augment" 12:31
meneldor guys is this cog.cognitivity.com/perl6/1_intro/ enough up to date for OO learning?
jnthn draegtun: The spec changed and Rakudo is still catching up. It's done in a branch, so it'll land in master in not too long, hopefully. :-) 12:32
moritz_ meneldor: I wouldn't recommend it, it's full of unclear terminology 12:33
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meneldor moritz_: please tell me where to learn about p6 OO 12:33
moritz_ meneldor: the perl 6 book currently being written has one chapter on classes and one on roles
github.com/perl6/book/ 12:34
meneldor thank you
im starting to learn from wrong places for second time
there are too much obsolete tutorials
moritz_ aye 12:35
that's why I started perl6.org, to link to those which are (mostly) up-to-date
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moritz_ (just an example for the inaccuracies: cog.cognitivity.com/perl6/1_intro/2.html the "properties" are actually called "traits", and you can't just make them up; either you have to use existing traits, or write roles which are specifically designed to work as traits) 12:37
also it doesn't show what you can do with these "properties", so I guess the author hasn't really understood them 12:38
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meneldor :) so if i learn p6 "that way" ill be completely confused later 12:39
those people have to remove these documents or keep them up to date
moritz_ on cog.cognitivity.com/perl6/ at least they write "IMPORTANT: This document is obsolete. The design of Perl6 has changed in important ways since this was written: refer to the Perl6 documentation efforts elsewhere. These pages will stay up for archival interest only: don't rely on them! -- Mike" 12:40
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meneldor so this is my bad :) i have to read more carefuly 12:48
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moritz_ well, if google sends you straight to a sub page, you'll never see that warning 12:50
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takadonet morning all! 12:52
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moritz_ btw I thought cog.cognitivity.com/perl6/ looked like a wiki, and registered, but I couldn't actually edit anything 13:17
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huf hai guis, what does "ningen nante" mean in japanese? 13:26
i have a hunch someone here speak it
Su-Shee afaik it's some singer. 13:34
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perlpilot feather is out of ptys again. 13:55
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frettled Hmm, that's a typical xen problem IIRC. Is this a xen thingy? 13:56
perlpilot dunno if Juerd uses xen or one of the other virtualization thingys 13:57
frettled s/xen problem/xen configuration problem/
2.6.18-6-xen-686
looks like it 13:58
Juerd: the pty problem may have something to do with udev support 13:59
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Juerd It is a xen thing, yes 14:04
I have a few dozen xen boxes, but only feather users a lot of pty's. 14:05
Do you happen to know how to fix it?
s/users/uses/
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Juerd upgrades udev. Maybe that does something useful :) 14:06
frettled Juerd: www.xen-support.com/?p=16
Juerd | You are currently upgrading udev to a version that is not compatible with the currently running | 14:07
| kernel.
Woops. Bailing out.
frettled :D
perlpilot Juerd++ frettled++
Juerd Oh my. Do an ls /dev 14:08
I think the current udev is also not quite compatible.
At least not terribly functional
frettled hmm
Juerd 1;0 root@feather:/dev# /etc/init.d/udev start
udev requires a kernel >= 2.6.26, not started. ... failed!
Hah.
And nobody noticed thus far? :)
frettled ah, and Debian doesn't package Xen kernels > 2.6.18 14:09
(IIRC)
Juerd They do
Somewhere.
frettled oh
perhaps in volatile or backports, then.
Juerd But I don't really have time for that right now :(
frettled and that requires a bit of attention to get right 14:10
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frettled since you probably ought to do aptitude update && aptitude safe-upgrade 14:10
Is there any particular reason why it's running a mix of unstable and experimental=
s/=/?/ 14:11
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frettled perlpilot: I had two shells on feather, I logged out from one now. 14:13
so that might help a tiny bit
perlpilot frettled: thanks. :) 14:14
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perlpilot Juerd: anyone else have root on the "real" feather that could do it? 14:14
moritz_ any ideas what I could blog about in the upcoming 5 hours of train ride?
slavik moritz_: how to install rakudo? 14:15
mathw moritz_: transfixedbutnotdead.com/2010/01/13...ogramming/
moritz_ slavik: that's covered in three different places already
perlpilot slavik: that's been done a few times and hasn't changed since.
slavik oh, ok
moritz_ mathw: the author has already told us that he'll write a Perl 6 followup 14:16
mathw woo
perlpilot moritz_: blog about book material :)
moritz_ perlpilot: :-) 14:17
frettled I'm also looking for something to blog about :)
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Juerd frettled: Too many people have had root access on feather, and most choices were never documented 14:20
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frettled yay 14:22
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Juerd It's unlikely that you'll encounter a bigger mess in debian context, except perhaps a box where even more things are custom compiled :) 14:23
I've seen the "Yes, do as I say" safety prompt a few times on feather, when trying to upgrade. 14:24
(For those who are unfamiliar with that: apt asks you to type this sentence when you're about to uninstall a vital package; in general that shouldn't happen when upgrading.) 14:25
I think that unless someone wants to find out what goes on on feather1, perhaps a new virtual machine should be erected and the old one deprecated 14:26
frettled I think that's a very sound idea. 14:27
Also, it could pay to separate functionality a bit more. 14:28
Perhaps use mpm-itk for different virtualhosts, that will make it easier to see which is the culprit/victim.
Unfortunately, I haven't had a chance of learning how to use mpm-itk yet, too little time on my hands. :( 14:29
Juerd These things are also from before the time feather was virtualised
There's a different VM for production stuff, but some things were never migrated there.
frettled /o\
they were never production ready, then ;)
moritz_ it would be good to migrate svn there
Juerd frettled: Agreed.
moritz_: Now all we need is someone to do it :) 14:30
moritz_ Juerd: right
Juerd (and maintain it)
moritz_ and migrate commitbit along with it :/
Juerd Commitbit has been the cause of several problems in the past.
I forgot what kind of problems.
moritz_ thinks about writing something more lightwight on top of an IRC bot 14:31
Juerd That would perhaps make a little bit too much sense.
PerlJam moritz_: you can blog about your experiences setting up the new feather ;-) When's that train ride again? :) 14:32
moritz_ too soon :-)
I'd much prefer to just convert it all to git, and put it up on github
PerlJam \o/ 14:33
14:33 moritz_ sets mode: +o PerlJam
moritz_ but it requires some more thoughts and planning 14:34
but that's something I could blog about, yes
frettled I still need a blogging topic! :D
moritz_ I think I've missed to 10 days deadline for the ironman anyway
but since my score was never recorded properly... whatever 14:35
Juerd frettled: Blog about the mess you found when you first logged in on feather yesterday :) 14:40
mathw Blog about something utterly terrible but ultimately insignificant you heard on the news today, and how it made you think of a cool thing in Perl 6 14:41
frettled Juerd: heh 14:45
mathw: also a nice idea 14:46
mathw of course, it only works if he did think of a cool thing in Perl 6 14:47
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Juerd closed a shell, so there's a pty available now :) 14:51
Be quick! 14:52
:P
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takadonet morning colomon 15:05
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saschi noch wer da? 15:36
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ash_ jnthn: ping? 15:52
colomon takadonet: morning
colomon has glasses. what a strange thing! 15:53
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mdxi glasses++ 15:54
ash_ how do i leave a message for someone again? i forget 15:56
jnthn ash_: phenny tell ...
oh, wait...
ash_: pong! :-)
ash_ lol
colomon ash_: phenny tell masak ....
jnthn was afk making a cuppa and missed the ping :-) 15:57
mberends phenny, tell ash_ something
phenny mberends: I'll pass that on when ash_ is around.
ash_ $P1= get_hll_global 'Role'
phenny ash_: 15:57Z <mberends> tell ash_ something
ash_ $P0 = '&infix:<~~>'(mixin_role, $P1)
say $P0 # inside add_meta_method returns 0
that's why the infix:<does> isn't being dispatched
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jnthn ash_: Oh, that is...odd... 15:58
ash_: But good find.
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jnthn That's an easier point to debug from. 15:59
ash_ so, P6role ~~ Role = 0
jnthn ash_: Oh, gah, yes. Hm.
ash_: Does liberalizing infix:does's signature a bit help?
e.g. if you s/Role/Mu/
ash_ probably, i'll try 16:00
jnthn It's in src/core/operators.pm iirc.
colomon jnthn: don't know if you saw this weirdness in the backlog: 16:01
ng: my $a = List.new; say $a.WHAT; say $a.elems;
p6eval ng b65331: List()␤Method 'elems' not found for invocant of class ''␤current instr.: 'perl6;Mu;' pc -1 ((unknown file):-1)␤
ash_ jnthn: it gets further, but fails on 'Method '!select' not found for invocant of class 'P6role''
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jnthn ash_: aha. 16:03
ash_: That probably means mixing in parametric roles is broken. 16:04
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jnthn Which woudln't surprise me. 16:04
ash_: I can try and fix that. 16:05
ash_: In the meantime rather than passing a P6Role you could try doing:
oh, wait... 16:06
No, that's a messy fix. :/
I guess answer is to fix the real issue.
ash_: I can do that later today...
ash_: Part of it relates to an open question I postd here a day or two ago though.
ash_ ah, okay 16:08
well, i guess i'll go find something else to break and fix then, like Lists.elems :p
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colomon List.new is the real issue, I'm pretty sure. :) 16:09
ash_ ng: my $a = List.new; say $a.WHAT; 16:10
p6eval ng b65331: List()␤
ash_ hmm
colomon ng: my $a = list; say $a.WHAT; say $a.elems;
ash_ so is it probably not initializing the attribute?
p6eval ng b65331: List()␤0␤
ash_ o.0
jnthn ash_: I'll try and think of other OO-ish tasks you may be interested in too. :-) 16:11
ash_ sure, would be gald to help
AUTO*?
jnthn ash_: My cold has been getting worse rather than better, so my thinkiness today is not on great form... :-/
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ash_ no good, its no biggy, i'll just try to find ng bugs if you don't think of anything, its not a big deal 16:12
colomon went to the doctor his morning for his cold...
*this 16:13
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sjn jnthn: hey, I read that you're moving north? :) 16:26
jnthn sjn: Yes! 16:27
sjn jnthn: Malmö or Lund or something?
or further north
jnthn sjn: Around there, yes.
Not arctic circle far north. ;-)
sjn Well, it'll be "close" to cph.pm at least :) 16:28
jnthn Yeah.
Closer to Oslo.pm :-)
sjn do tell if you take a trip to Oslo though
really?
jnthn erm
closer than I am now ;-)
sjn ah :)
jnthn Not closer than to Copenhagen. :-)
ash_ i have class, i'll see if i can find the List.elems issue out, be back later
jnthn Maybe I cam make an Oslo.pm meeting some month though. :-) 16:29
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jnthn It's a train journey rather than a flight now. :-) 16:29
sjn jnthn: well, I hope you'll enjoy staying in the land of the Mai-stang, Surströmning and Must :)
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jnthn sjn: I may give the surströmning a miss... :-) 16:31
sjn booo! ;-) 16:34
ypi
you'll miss out on some of the best food in sweden!
("best" on some as-of-yet undetermined scale, of course)
jnthn There are many fermented substances I like, but I don't class herring as one of them. :-)
sjn I'm sure you can aquire that taste, with a little effort ;-) 16:35
(and enough aquavit)
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IllvilJa jnthn: kudos to you for regarding 'surstr􏿽xF6mming' as fermented (which it is) and not rotten (which it really isn't, despite some slander ignorant souls spreads)... 16:41
jnthn There's More Than One Way To Taste Bad. ;-) 16:43
.oO( oops, no more kudos for me )
IllvilJa jnthn: heh, 'surstr􏿽xF6mming' isn't the 'worst' Sweden has produced. The candy known as 'Jungelvr􏿽xE5l' (English translation: "Djungle roars") at least makes US workmates of mine to retreat in horror when I offer it to them. 16:45
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IllvilJa Maybe that says more about US candy taste than it says about 'Jungelvr􏿽xE5l' though ;-). 16:46
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IllvilJa ('Jungelvr􏿽xE5l' is licorice candy covered with salmiak powder or something similar that have a darn intense, almost corroding, licorice taste...) 16:47
jnthn Oh, I like licorice.
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sjn IllvilJa: that's not so bad.... 16:48
Su-Shee hm, my favorite licorice shop isn't available in english... 16:49
sjn the intensity doesn't last long, right?
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IllvilJa Well, I like them. Yes, the intensity lasts for a moment just when you put them in your mouth (it is some sort of salmiak salt powder that covers them). After that, they are just like any tasty licorice candy you chew on. A URL is here: sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Djungelvr%C3%...vr.C3.A5l. Swedish page, but check out the picture with 8 black candy pieces to the right, there you got them. 16:51
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jnthn IllvilJa: Oh, I have had those! 16:52
IllvilJa: I actually like them.
Bit of a surprise the first time though. ;-)
IllvilJa: I prefer these though: my.opera.com/kirstycat/blog/billar 16:55
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frettled Juerd: blogified, sortof :) 17:09
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hejki ng: sub postfix:<!>($n) { [*] (1..$n) }; say 5!; 17:13
p6eval ng b65331: Unable to parse blockoid, couldn't find final '}' at line 1␤current instr.: 'perl6;Regex;Cursor;FAILGOAL' pc 1664 (src/stage0/Regex-s0.pir:907)␤
hejki ng: sub postfix:<!>($n) { [*] (1..$n); }; say 5!; 17:14
p6eval ng b65331: Unable to parse blockoid, couldn't find final '}' at line 1␤current instr.: 'perl6;Regex;Cursor;FAILGOAL' pc 1664 (src/stage0/Regex-s0.pir:907)␤
colomon hejki: I'm pretty sure .. still doesn't work properly in ng. 17:15
[*] probably doesn't either.
hejki ng: sub fac($n) { [*] (1..$n); }; say fac(5);
p6eval ng b65331: Unable to parse blockoid, couldn't find final '}' at line 1␤current instr.: 'perl6;Regex;Cursor;FAILGOAL' pc 1664 (src/stage0/Regex-s0.pir:907)␤
hejki mm..
ash_ ... works though 17:16
ng: say 1...3;
p6eval ng b65331: 123␤
colomon ng; sub postfix:<!>($n) { say $n }; 5!
ash_ but they kinda mean 2 different things, if only slightly different
hejki ng: sub fac($n) { reduce { $^a * $^b }, (1..$n); }; say fac(5);
p6eval ng b65331: Could not find non-existent sub &reduce␤current instr.: '&fac' pc 119 (EVAL_1:50)␤
hejki rakudo: sub fac($n) { reduce { $^a * $^b }, (1..$n); }; say fac(5);
p6eval rakudo 3867ff: 120␤
hejki =(
colomon ng: sub postfix:<!>($n) { say $n }; 5!
p6eval ng b65331: sh: ./perl6: No such file or directory␤
17:17 rodi left
colomon I kind of think operator overloading doesn't work for new operators in ng yet either. 17:17
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hejki ng: sub fac($n) { my $prod = 1; for 2..$n -> $x { $prod *= $x; }; $x }; say fac(5); 17:17
p6eval ng b65331: sh: ./perl6: No such file or directory␤
colomon yeah, it doesn't. 17:18
hejki dang. it seems a real long way to got
s/t$$//;
colomon ng: sub fac($n) { my $prod = 1; for 2...$n -> $x { $prod *= $x; }; $x }; say fac(5); 17:19
p6eval ng b65331: Symbol '$x' not predeclared in &fac␤current instr.: 'perl6;PCT;HLLCompiler;panic' pc 137 (src/PCT/HLLCompiler.pir:101)␤
ash_ there is still always master rakudo
colomon :\
hejki y :<
ng: sub fac($n) { my $prod = 1; my $x; for 2..$n -> $x { $prod *= $x; }; $x }; say fac(5);
p6eval ng b65331: Method 'Num' not found for invocant of class 'Range'␤current instr.: 'perl6;Mu;' pc -1 ((unknown file):-1)␤
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ash_ wonder what it would take to get new operators working in ng... that seems difficult 17:21
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hejki what's the current suggested parrot revision? 17:22
PerlJam hejki: for master or ng? 17:23
hejki master
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ash_ can you do a backtrace in parrot to see the stack frame if your not sure where you are? 17:30
colomon ash_: I believe it would take modifying the grammar on the fly to add new operators in ng.
ash_ colomon: sounds like a reasonable assumption, how does master handler it? by augmenting the grammar on the fly? 17:34
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IllvilJa jnthn: Regarding those 'bilar' (Swedish word for 'cars' BTW), our Swedish astronaut Christer Fugelsang got a special edition of those manufactured for him. Instead of having the shapes of cars, the candy had the shape of space shuttles. Only 100 bags were made though and unfortunately it were just a one off :-(. 17:36
jnthn: but he took the opportunity to eat those in space in microgravity during a real time press conference, which were sort of fun :-). Most of the bags were given to readers of his blog down here on earth. 17:38
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Juerd "Juerd had already stopped Apache, but someone -- I don't know who -- started it again at 12:00, probably anxious that SVN and such didn't work." 17:45
frettled: Yea, that was probably /usr/local/bin/incredibly_ugly_hack_to_restart_apache
frettled Juerd: oooh
my goodness, that's actually what its name is! 17:46
Juerd That filename is one of the rare cases of good documentation on feather ;)
frettled hee-hee
I don't understand what's happening, though. I try to write shorter blog entries, but they just end up becoming longer and longer and longer.
Juerd So far I'm enjoying the read :) 17:47
frettled Soon I'll need to create a wiki page for each of my blog entries!
Juerd: \o/
17:47 rodi joined
Juerd "It's just as if someone was waiting for me to go idle in order to produce the problem that I was looking for." -- So horribly familiar. 17:48
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Juerd frettled: I don't think the spam itself is the DOS attack. I think Google's indexing of the spam might have been it :) 17:49
frettled mmm :)
Juerd: good point.
Juerd The IPs in the server-status screenshot are googlebots
frettled aha!
Juerd s/plural/singular/ 17:50
frettled excuse me while I edit reality.
Juerd Getting that trac timeline page took 50 seconds when I tried it myself
So that, times a few, lead to server death
Googlebot isn't always very friendly. It has been crawling vortaro.nl for more than a year, averaging at 1 GB per month 17:51
(More, if you count headers, but Apache doesn't)
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frettled Yahoo! is worse. 17:51
Juerd likes to think that Googlebot is in love with vortaro.nl
It just can't get enough
frettled I've blocked access to our webservers (we're a web hosting provider) from Yahoo!'s /16.
Juerd: hee-hee 17:52
But Google's bots usually don't come in large hunting packs.
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Juerd Well, it initiates a new request once every so many seconds, usually 17:53
frettled mm
Yahoo! have no such petty concerns.
Juerd But apparently that interval is not increased when the responses take very long.
frettled okay, that's hardly ideal.
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Juerd At least, that's what I think was happening to feather 17:54
In fact, perhaps the simple fix could be a robots.txt
(Although Googlebot would probably kill the server again before checking robots.txt)
frettled I think they check for it every time. 17:55
So if robots.txt blocks for Trac, that might help a bit.
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Juerd What makes a "time"? 17:56
frettled Every time a bot starts indexing.
Juerd When do you reckon that will be on dev.pugscode.org? 17:57
frettled I have no clue :D 17:58
Juerd :) 17:59
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frettled Ooh, masakbot is submitting again! 18:01
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ash_ colomon: so... i think the issue is the List.new doesn't assign a value to $.values 18:30
ng: my $a = List.new(values => (1, 2, 3)); 18:31
p6eval ng b65331: ( no output )
ash_ ng: my $a = List.new(values => (1, 2, 3)); say $a.elems;
p6eval ng b65331: get_pmc_keyed() not implemented in class 'List'␤current instr.: 'perl6;List;!generate' pc 11209 (src/builtins/Str.pir:187)␤
ash_ gives you a whole new error
ng: my $a = List.new(values => 'a'); say $a.elems; 18:33
p6eval ng b65331: Method 'succ' not found for invocant of class ''␤current instr.: 'perl6;Mu;' pc -1 ((unknown file):-1)␤
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ash_ so, List needs a new method to initialize all of its internal variables properly, what properly is, i am not sure yet 18:34
values, i think, needs to be a ResizablePMCArray but I am not sure
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jnthn ash_: Sounds reasonable 18:41
ash_: Maybe try like
$P0 = new ['ResizablePMCArray']
setattribute self, '$!values', $P0 18:42
Somewhere
brb, store
ash_ in src/core/List.pm i tried adding a method new(*@args) there but it's not being called
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TimToady
.oO(backlog, or fix my mailserver...choices...choices...)
 18:52
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jnthn TimToady: Fixing your mail server gives you more things to read at the end of it. Backlogging gives you less things to read at the end of it. :-) 18:54
ash_ jnthn: where would i do that? Should i add a BUILD or a new to List? also, should I do it in the .pir or .pm? 18:55
jnthn ash_: BUILD may be a good place. 18:56
Provided list doesn't have a PIR new method that's getting called, anyways.
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ash_ no, .new is falling back to Mu's 18:56
jnthn OK, that should wind up calling a BUILD you write then. 18:58
ash_ but List.new is supposed to be able to take a bunch of arguements to make the list, so you can do List.new(1, 2, 3); doesn't that mean i'd need to do a .new also? 19:00
jnthn BUILD is passed that argument. 19:01
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jnthn ash_: Take a look at some of the tests for a better idea of BUILD. 19:02
ash_ kk, i still don't know when to use new vs BUILD
jnthn new = needs to actually manufacture an instance of the object 19:04
BUILD = does the init work for this particular class assuming we already have an object.
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ash_ well that fixes 1 issue... sorta, now i get: get_pmc_keyed() not implemented in class 'Array' in List;!generate 19:09
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ash_ oh, got it 19:17
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ash_ hm, no, it not raising an error but its not working right 19:20
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lisppaste3 supernovus pasted "rakudo master build error" at paste.lisp.org/display/93395 19:31
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ash_ supernovus what version of parrot are you using? 19:32
supernovus 1.9.0-devel
I haven't been able to build rakudo in a while.
ash_ on ubuntu? 19:33
supernovus I tried the 'ng' branch and it died as well in a similar manner.
ash_ or linux?
supernovus Ubuntu 9.10 64bit
blizkost dies on me too, haven't tried any other parrot languages. 19:35
ash_ yeah, i am not sure exactly what the problem is, are you using trunk parrot? or PARROT_REVISION parrot?
supernovus trunk 19:36
ash_ can you try with PARROT_REVISION trunk?
its in build/PARROT_REVISION
or do perl Configure.pl --gen-parrot and it automatically does it 19:37
brb, supernovus if your still here when i get back i'll see if i can help you figure out whats wrong 19:41
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TimToady email back up, can backlog in peese 19:55
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supernovus Well, rakudo built fine with the PARROT_REVISION version of parrot. So, it's parrot 'trunk' that is currently broken. blizkost still bails horridly, but I think it's been broken for a while. 20:15
ash_ blizkost hasn't been updated in a while 20:18
thats good PARROT_REVISION built for you, i think masak has been notified of the trunk one 20:19
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ash_ well, i think there is a ticket in the bug tracker about it, i don't know if its all linux or just ubuntu but so far, someone else using ubuntu 8.10 had problems building it too, i am on os x and it builds fine for me with trunk parrot, gcc 4.2, might be gcc related, i am not sure 20:22
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fglock hi 20:25
PerlJam greetings
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supernovus ash_: using gcc 4.4.1 over here, so it may be a gcc related issue. 20:26
fglock some news in miniperl6, 20:27
$ perl mp6.pl -v -Bgo util/mp6.pl
$ ./6.out util/mp6.pl 20:28
colomon ash_: apologies for disappearing on you there.
ash_ no worries
fglock the Go backend now can compile mp6 source
ash_ wait, so you can have miniperl6 with a Go backend? 20:29
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ash_ doesn't Go use the gcc as a backend? 20:29
fglock not bootstrapped yet, needs writing some tools
ash_ thats cool 20:30
fglock $ ./6.out -Clisp util/mp6.pl # compile mp6 to lisp, using Go
the speed is about the same as the perl5 backend 20:31
PerlJam fglock: um ... how fast is the perl5 backend? 20:32
fglock I can only compare between backends, Perl5 is 1x, Go is 1x, Javascript is 3x, Lisp is 5x 20:33
Parrot only runs 'hello, World!' for now 20:34
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fglock oh, and today I also tested with Java, through Rhino: 20:35
$ perl mp6.pl -Brhino -e ' say "hello, World!" '
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fglock checking Rhino speed now 20:36
hmm - not so easy, needs some scripting
will do later 20:37
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PerlJam fglock: having a comparison between parrot and perl5 and others would be meaningful 20:38
without the parrot metric, I can't get too excited about "as fast as the perl 5 backend" :) 20:39
fglock actually, Rakudo should be able to run mp6 directly
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fglock $ ./perl6 ~/projects/perlito/lib/Test.pm # no errors! 20:42
(updating rakudo) 20:46
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fglock how can I set @*INC for rakudo? 21:00
PERL6INC and -I didn't work 21:02
ash_ fglock: are you in ng?
supernovus A rather obscure question... I can find the hex unicode representation of a character using "æ".ord.fmt("%04X"); Is there a way to return the character description that you can use in \c[] (in this case "LATIN SMALL LETTER AE") ?
fglock no, plain rakudo
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TimToady supernovus: not that I know; but check out qx/perl -e 'print do "unicore/Name.pl"'/ maybe 21:07
rakudo: say qx/perl -e 'print do "unicore/Name.pl"'/; # probable fail 21:08
p6eval rakudo 3867ff: Confused at line 2, near "Name.pl\"'/"␤in Main (file <unknown>, line <unknown>)␤
TimToady eh? 21:09
rakudo: say qx[perl -e 'print do "unicore/Name.pl"']; # probable fail
p6eval rakudo 3867ff: operation not permitted in safe mode␤in Main (file /home/p6eval//p1/lib/parrot/1.9.0-devel/languages/perl6/lib/Safe.pm, line 24)␤
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TimToady works locally though 21:10
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Tene fglock: PERL6LIB 21:11
supernovus: you'll need to write some code that talks to libicu
ash_ fglock: in master rakudo it checks your ~/.perl6/lib folder and the $perl6install/lib folder by default i know, i think it checks an enviorment variable dont' know which
but Tene++ knows apparently 21:12
fglock Tene: thanks!
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fglock I've fixed a couple of problems, but mp6 doesn't run in rakudo yet 21:43
sleep &
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GeJ Good morning everyone. 22:10
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zamolxes so were those actual search engine crawlers, or were they spammers? 22:31
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diakopter zamolxes: ? 22:48
oh, on feather/trac? 22:49
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zamolxes cause yep 23:06
yep
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zamolxes so, one important thing is adding %D to the format log. Then you can do stuff like : what types of requests are most expensive 23:10
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zamolxes frettled: o/ 23:10
and if I can help with the varnish part, i'm here, just let me know 23:12
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ash_ isn't BUILD supposed to be passed all of the arguments from new? 23:39
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ash_ ng's build isn't functioning properly 23:47
diakopter ng: ''
p6eval ng b65331: sh: ./perl6: No such file or directory␤
frettled zamolxes: Hey! That's great! 23:51
diakopter ng: ''
p6eval ng b65331: ( no output )
frettled zamolxes: if you're around here sometime during the day, I'm sure Juerd is here, too, and we can talk a bit more about it, okay? (I'm just popping by because of sleeplessness now) 23:52

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