»ö« | perl6.org/ | nopaste: paste.lisp.org/new/perl6 | evalbot usage: 'perl6: say 3;' or rakudo: / pugs: / std: , or /msg p6eval perl6: ... | irclog: irc.pugscode.org/ | UTF-8 is our friend!
Set by diakopter on 25 January 2010.
00:00 xabbu42 left
masak jnthn: :) 00:00
jnthn diakopter: I think that's correct.
diakopter std: {nom,nom,nom}.WHAT.say
p6eval std 29783: OUTPUT«Undeclared routine:␤ 'nom' used at line 1,1,1␤ok 00:01 106m␤»
jnthn The {;;;;} is...funnier. :-)
Oh, we don't have the undeclared routine warnings yet, that's all.
diakopter rakudo: {nom,nom,nom}.=() 00:01
p6eval rakudo 3b869c: OUTPUT«src/hash.c:144: failed assertion 's'␤Backtrace - Obtained 17 stack frames (max trace depth is 32).␤/home/p6eval//p2/lib/libparrot.so.2.1.0 [0x2b9596d2d173]␤/home/p6eval//p2/lib/libparrot.so.2.1.0(Parrot_confess+0x87) [0x2b9596d2d2a7]␤/home/p6eval//p2/lib/libparrot.so.2.1.0
..[0x2b959…
jnthn empty statements currently "evaporate"
Now you've gone and done it.
diakopter it eated itself
masak hm. time for attempted sleep.
thanks everyone, you've been grand.
jnthn masak: Happy attempting.
diakopter no masakbug on the failed assertion?
masak jnthn: attempts at thanks. 00:02
00:02 masak left
jnthn :-) 00:02
diakopter is that a known issue or something?
oh, src/hash.c ... that's ... parrot?
jnthn diakopter: Yeah 00:03
diakopter chromatic: see 'bove
jnthn diakopter: It's actually managed to create an assertion failure somewhere in Parrot itself.
That doesn't happen often these days.
diakopter FTW
lichtkind mberends: cheers i***** :)
diakopter ya missed a letter
lichtkind :) 00:04
right
mberends lichtkind: good morning o enlightened one
lichtkind mberends: so tuits for a wiki tour? 00:05
diakopter who the parrot folk
jnthn: eh, I crashed both the .NET JIT and the Mono JIT a few weeks ago; that was all kinds of fun 00:06
mberends lichtkind: ok, starting at www.perlfoundation.org/perl6/index.cgi
00:06 quietfanatic left
jnthn diakopter: Heh. Nice to know it's not *just* Rakudo. :-) 00:06
00:06 chromatic left
diakopter aww; he missed my hilite 00:07
diakopter goes to see who's in #parrot
00:09 nihiliad left
lichtkind mberends: allright so lets clean the second half there 00:10
mberends: you want to do first?
mberends I would suggest generally each subheading remains as the only word, and the text below each heading becomes a subpage. But there may be exceptions.. 00:13
Development Status, Downloads, Online Documentation can all do that 00:14
Products and Services should maybe just disappear 00:15
Other Information, oops, a new spam there. No good to us, we're not teens ;) 00:16
lichtkind mberends: im not that radical but i would first put some meat into the implementations page
mberends: and maybe create about perl 6 page from where goes all the general term infos as links 00:18
mberends lichtkind: ok you do that, I'll get started on implementations
lichtkind mberends: allright so you write the implementations page and i clean the front page? 00:19
mberends oki
lichtkind mberends: www.perlfoundation.org/perl6/index.cgi?faq 00:22
im rewiring now :)
jnthn loliblogged use.perl.org/~JonathanWorthington/journal/40196
mberends jnthn: did you visit Amsterdam recently? (^Wnamed...) 00:24
jnthn mberends: Not for quite a while, actually. 00:25
mberends: Morrocco more recently than that. ;-)
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lichtkind mberends: or wnat we cut the new to and just link to another news page which already exists 00:30
diakopter rakudo: {}.==()
p6eval rakudo 3b869c: OUTPUT«Null PMC access in invoke()␤current instr.: '!assign_metaop' pc 16493 (src/builtins/Junction.pir:299)␤»
diakopter jnthn: ^^
jnthn ...what are we doing in assign_metaop?! 00:31
mberends lichtkind: the news looks nice on the main page, don't you think?
lichtkind allright
mberends: the most work is to chekc all the rigth places for the lins :) 00:35
links
diakopter rakudo: .=() 00:37
p6eval rakudo 3b869c: OUTPUT«src/hash.c:144: failed assertion 's'␤Backtrace - Obtained 17 stack frames (max trace depth is 32).␤/home/p6eval//p1/lib/libparrot.so.2.1.0 [0x2aed5e0b0173]␤/home/p6eval//p1/lib/libparrot.so.2.1.0(Parrot_confess+0x87) [0x2aed5e0b02a7]␤/home/p6eval//p1/lib/libparrot.so.2.1.0
..[0x2aed5…
mberends lichtkind: ok, interim saved www.perlfoundation.org/perl6/index....mentations while looking at your links
00:40 andy1 left
lichtkind mberends: dont understand you 00:40
mberends: but i added something to implementations :) 00:41
hope its doesnt destroy your save
jnthn mberends: ping
mberends jnthn: pong 00:42
jnthn mberends: It occurs to me that the "Stages" section maybe more naturally warrants a section of its own rather than being in the nqp part?
diakopter rakudo: ([].''() ~ 'hi').say
p6eval rakudo 3b869c: OUTPUT«Undefined value shifted from empty array␤current instr.: 'perl6;Perl6Exception;throw' pc 14244 (src/builtins/Seq.pir:52)␤»
jnthn mberends: One other reason to stick with NQP for now is that it also is able to generate more efficient code than Rakudo presently can, due to being able to make a bunch of assumptions that (at least without an optimizer) Rakudo can't. 00:43
mberends lichtkind: your implementations edit is ok here
jnthn: sure, we can also add a bit more detail about stages
diakopter rakudo: ([[]].''().perl ~ 'hi').say 00:44
p6eval rakudo 3b869c: OUTPUT«[]hi␤»
diakopter jnthn: ???
the empty method on [] is the same as 'shift'?
mberends jnthn: makes sense, but I'd never thought of that before.
Tene how does that make sense? 00:45
mberends jnthn: ok, the sequence can try to trace the build process defined by the Makefile dependencies
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mberends Tene: nqp is not such a complex language, so its generated code cannot be as complex as full Perl 6 00:46
lichtkind mberends: moved sevaral quotes to quote section www.perlfoundation.org/perl6/index....l_6_quotes
Tene mberends: ah, I thought you meant that empty method on [] is shift made sense. 00:47
diakopter rakudo: [[]].perl.say; [[]].''().perl.say # jnthn
p6eval rakudo 3b869c: OUTPUT«[[]]␤[]␤»
jnthn diakopter: Yeah...oddness :-)
eternaleye jnthn: re your latest blog post, is that how list infixes are going to be implemented?
mberends Tene: no, wires.uncross() ;-)
jnthn eternaleye: I doubt it. 00:48
eternaleye: Provided we're talking about the same things anyway. :-)
mberends: Anyway, it's good overall. 00:49
mberends lichtkind: perl_6_quotes is a really good idea :)
jnthn mberends: I'll try and make time to write up some extra bits on the binder and some of the interesting dynpmcs.
eternaleye Still, nested signatures are cool in so many ways
mberends thanks for the suggestions jnthn
jnthn mberends++ # documenting our guts
eternaleye: Yes, they're pretty powerful. Especially when fixed with multi dispatch. 00:50
diakopter rakudo: my @a = {1}..{1}; say @a
p6eval rakudo 3b869c: OUTPUT«Method 'succ' not found for invocant of class 'Block'␤current instr.: '!dispatch_.=' pc 440 (src/glue/dispatch.pir:118)␤»
lichtkind mberends: it was there before i just cleaning up
jnthn eternaleye: erm, mixed with. :-)
diakopter rakudo: my @a = 'A'..'z'; say @a # timeout??? 00:51
p6eval rakudo 3b869c: ( no output ) 00:52
diakopter oh, no
it says
Could not find non-existent sub &A
current instr.: '_block14' pc 29 (EVAL_1:0)
called from Sub '!UNIT_START' pc 1125 (src/glue/run.pir:17)
called from Sub 'perl6;PCT;HLLCompiler;eval' pc -1 ((unknown file):-1)
called from Sub 'perl6;PCT;HLLCompiler;command_line' pc 1489 (compilers/pct/src/PCT/HLLCompiler.pir:794)
called from Sub 'perl6;Perl6;Compiler;main' pc -1 ((unknown file):-1)
oooo
jnthn what? 00:53
it hangs here. :-|
diakopter on stdin?
I did mine ./perl6 -e 'my @a = 'A'..'z'; say @a'
o ha
jnthn The quotes got swallowed.
diakopter <- idiot
yeah, hangs here 00:54
jnthn that's...really weird.
diakopter where's masakbot when you need 'im
jnthn rakudo: my @a = 'A'..'Z'; say @a;
p6eval rakudo 3b869c:
..OUTPUT«ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZAAABACADAEAFAGAHAIAJAKALAMANAOAPAQARASATAUAVAWAXAYAZBABBBCBDBEBFBGBHBIBJBKBLBMBNBOBPBQBRBSBTBUBVBWBXBYBZCACBCCCDCECFCGCHCICJCKCLCMCNCOCPCQCRCSCTCUCVCWCXCYCZDADBDCDDDEDFDGDHDIDJDKDLDMDNDODPDQDRDSDTDUDVDWDXDYDZEAEBECEDEEEFEGEHEIEJEKELEMENEOEPEQERESETEUEVEWEX…
jnthn That one looks RONG too.
diakopter !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 00:55
jnthn It's probably a missing termination check or something.
mberends it's counting in base 26
jnthn There's more than one way to fail it.
diakopter TimToafy 00:56
rakudo: my @a = 'A'..'Y'; say @a; 00:57
p6eval rakudo 3b869c: OUTPUT«ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXY␤»
snarkyboojum ('A'..'z').iterator.GrabAndSay(1000) is telling :)
diakopter 'A'..'Y' works, but 'A'..'Z' causes weirdness 00:58
eternaleye rakudo: class Foo { has $.a = 'Bar'; has $.b = 'Baz'; }; multi sub unpack( Foo $qux ( :$a, :$b ) { return '$a = ' ~ $a ~ ' and $b = ' ~ $b; }; say unpack( Foo.new);
p6eval rakudo 3b869c: OUTPUT«Malformed multi at line 11, near "sub unpack"␤current instr.: 'perl6;HLL;Grammar;panic' pc 500 (ext/nqp-rx/src/stage0/HLL-s0.pir:328)␤»
eternaleye Whoops, forgot a ) 00:59
mberends diakopter: locally it gets to 'YZ' and then stops.
eternaleye rakudo: class Foo { has $.a = 'Bar'; has $.b = 'Baz'; }; multi sub unpack( Foo $qux ( :$a, :$b ) ) { return '$a = ' ~ $a ~ ' and $b = ' ~ $b; }; say unpack( Foo.new);
p6eval rakudo 3b869c: OUTPUT«$a = Bar and $b = Baz␤»
eternaleye That is insanely cool.
jnthn is cool-ly insane 01:00
diakopter rakudo: my @a = 'A'..'YZ'; say @a;
p6eval rakudo 3b869c: OUTPUT«ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXY␤»
lichtkind mberends: what your doing now?
diakopter snort
mberends multitasking
lichtkind diakopter: :)
diakopter lichtkind: I was laughing at rakudo, a bit
eternaleye rakudo: 'jnthn++'.say for 1..10; 01:01
p6eval rakudo 3b869c: OUTPUT«Missing block at line 11, near ";"␤current instr.: 'perl6;HLL;Grammar;panic' pc 500 (ext/nqp-rx/src/stage0/HLL-s0.pir:328)␤»
mberends lichtkind: editing implementations some more
eternaleye rakudo: for 1..10 { say 'jnthn++'; }
p6eval rakudo 3b869c: OUTPUT«jnthn++␤jnthn++␤jnthn++␤jnthn++␤jnthn++␤jnthn++␤jnthn++␤jnthn++␤jnthn++␤jnthn++␤»
lichtkind mberends: im editing all the other pages :)
snarkyboojum rakudo: say 'Z'.succ after 'Z' 01:02
p6eval rakudo 3b869c: OUTPUT«0␤»
snarkyboojum :)
lichtkind mberends: spambot has utf problems 01:04
mberends lichtkind: does that affect saving certain wiki edits? 01:05
lichtkind mberends: spambot ruined utf in some pages, i had just the yak shaving job to repair that 01:06
snarkyboojum rakudo: say 'YZ'.succ after 'Z' 01:07
p6eval rakudo 3b869c: OUTPUT«1␤»
mberends lichtkind: I think that happened to me once a few months ago. moritz_++ just reverted the change and we started editing again
jnthn -> sleep, night all 01:09
snarkyboojum I'm pretty sure 'Z'.succ after 'Z' should be 1 ;)
Tene rakudo: say 'Z'.succ
p6eval rakudo 3b869c: OUTPUT«AA␤»
snarkyboojum say 'YZ'.succ 01:10
rakudo: say 'YZ'.succ
p6eval rakudo 3b869c: OUTPUT«ZA␤»
lichtkind mberends: where to link the download pages? 01:16
mberends lichtkind: I'm going to include download links on the implementations page, so a download page may be unnecessary. less is better than more ;) 01:18
lichtkind mberends: but a download page is better to have to be linked from various places 01:20
buts ist good for now
for now i just want to ged rid of front page links
mberends: only one screen page unnecesary front page left 01:21
mberends yeah, get rid of too much cruft. The best place for a Rakudo download link, is only on the Rakudo site, not in the Wiki at all. (the principle of don't repeat yourself) 01:22
lichtkind mberends: i uploaded camelia 01:28
mberends I see her! nice! :-)
lichtkind mberends: i take it out for the moment until get it alight right 01:29
mberends ok
01:29 lue joined
lue hello! 01:30
01:31 am0c joined
lue anyone there? 01:32
mberends er, working ;) 01:33
lue ok. It usually isn't this quiet right now (if I remember)
mberends lue: just give it a few minutes. meanwhile, read the irclog: irclog.perlgeek.de/perl6/today 01:34
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lichtkind mberends: please check www.perlfoundation.org/perl6/index....out_perl_6 01:38
mberends okidoki
lue rakudo: say 'A'..'£' 01:41
p6eval rakudo 3b869c: ( no output )
lue pugs: say 'A'..'£'
p6eval pugs: OUTPUT«ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ␤»
mberends lichtkind: s/Getting Involved/Get Involved/ and "buy welbrutin" is spam
I think also add the tutorial sites for learning, and Perl6Advent 01:43
lichtkind mberends: do it, but other than that the page is good? 01:44
mberends yes :)
lichtkind :)
mberends: the was a lot refactoring going on :)
mberends yes it was. And I'm still working on just one page... 01:45
lichtkind mberends: hopefully not on www.perlfoundation.org/perl6/index....ut_perl_6, it refactored once again, now its really good, just have a look 01:47
mberends nice. that means whatever links are duplicated on the main page, can now go, because 1 click extra is fine for all this content. 01:49
snarkyboojum lue: check out the get() method in RangeIter, the 'if $current after $!max' never evaluates to true for a whole bunch of ranges, that's why 'A'..'£' goes on forever :) 01:51
lue it should (imo) print all unicode characters from A to £. I'll check that out. 01:52
01:52 Chillance left
snarkyboojum e.g. 'Z'.succ -> 'AA', and 'ZZ'.succ -> 'AAA' and so on, ad infinitum :) 01:52
look at > ('A'..'£').iterator.GrabAndSay(1000) for instance 01:53
I also like this
rakudo: 'Z'.succ after 'Z' 01:54
p6eval rakudo 3b869c: ( no output )
lue that... is internationally moronic (but sound in the US)
snarkyboojum sorry
rakudo: say 'Z'.succ after 'Z'
p6eval rakudo 3b869c: OUTPUT«0␤»
lue (the way AA comes after Z, I mean)
snarkyboojum the successor of Z is not after Z 01:55
:)
lichtkind mberends: please add www.programmersheaven.com/2/Perl6-QuickStart to pugs page it will be now removed from front
snarkyboojum yeah ok
but the idea of the successor to a letter not being after the letter is confusing to me :)
01:55 ggoebel left
lue And I thought we used unicode, dangit! :) 01:55
arlinius rakudo: say 'Y'.succ after 'Y'
p6eval rakudo 3b869c: OUTPUT«1␤»
lue rakudo: say '1'..'2'
p6eval rakudo 3b869c: OUTPUT«12␤» 01:56
arlinius rakudo: say 'A' after 'Z'
p6eval rakudo 3b869c: OUTPUT«0␤»
snarkyboojum yeah, but not at the end of a range
arlinius rakudo: say 'AA' after 'Z'
p6eval rakudo 3b869c: OUTPUT«0␤»
lue rakudo: say chr(0xA0)..chr(0xB0)
mberends lichtkind: ok, done
p6eval rakudo 3b869c: ( no output )
lichtkind mberends: thanks
snarkyboojum that's the bug as I can see it anyway
lue hm, maybe we should change that to support unicode, methinks.
snarkyboojum but first time I've looked at Rakudo source code ;) so I have nfi 01:57
unless it's supposed to never return
lue any idea where RangeIter is defined? :)
snarkyboojum src/core/RangeIter.pm
lue ah, missed it. 01:58
arlinius rakudo: say '↑'..'↓'
p6eval rakudo 3b869c: ( no output )
lue [To the ApocolypseMobile! Come quickly, Exergesis Man! I shall use my Synopsis Warpdrive to get there quickly!]
s/Exergesis/Exegesis/ 01:59
lichtkind mberends: im done for today, but look! : www.perlfoundation.org/perl6/index.cgi?perl_6 02:02
mberends: 11 links left
i mean 9 02:03
mberends that's a big improvement. I'm thinking of sleep, also
lichtkind mberends: were that blind there was still spam on fron page :)
mberends "teen dating", hehe 02:04
lichtkind mberends: and i will remove toc too
TimToady colomon: um, spec tests shouldn't be using implementation dependent features such as pir:: 02:05
mberends yes, better without that too
lue will add the support of the Earth into RangeIter (the problem seems to lie in the after infix
lichtkind mberends: i kepht the about section on the bottom. still dunno what to do with that
snarkyboojum lue: so those ranges will never cross the boundaries of the ranges defined in src/builtins/Str.pir, i.e. 'A' .. 'z' etc
lue there should not be any boundaries, except the first and last characters of unicode (IMO) 02:06
snarkyboojum check out the RANGES constant in src/builtins/Str.pir
mberends lichtkind: some of it is fossil, can be deleted. Maybe just one or two horizontal sentences with all the links in specific keywords? 02:07
lichtkind mberends: do it but wait a second i just reinsert camelia now 02:08
snarkyboojum there are explicitly defined increment/decrement ranges
mberends Camelia will look better than a table of contents, for sure 02:09
lue It should allow all unicode. You'd have to use tricky programming... tricks, though (almost certain).
lichtkind mberends: before or after the first headline?
snarkyboojum lue: see what I mean though?
mberends lichtkind: you'd better preview them both and then decide, I don't know 02:10
lichtkind mberends: done
snarkyboojum they way that's implemented, the range will never go across those "range" boundaries for want of a better description
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snarkyboojum (excuse the poor/incorrect terminology) 02:11
02:12 justatheory left
lue beh, I think limiting it like that is... interesting. 02:12
rakudo: say ①..⑳
p6eval rakudo 3b869c: OUTPUT«Confused at line 11, near "say \u2460..\u2473"␤current instr.: 'perl6;HLL;Grammar;panic' pc 500 (ext/nqp-rx/src/stage0/HLL-s0.pir:328)␤»
lue rakudo: say '①'..'⑳'
p6eval rakudo 3b869c:
..OUTPUT«①②③④⑤⑥⑦⑧⑨⑩⑪⑫⑬⑭⑮⑯⑰⑱⑲⑳①①①②①③①④①⑤①⑥①⑦①⑧①⑨①⑩①⑪①⑫①⑬①⑭①⑮①⑯①⑰①⑱①⑲①⑳②①②②②③②④②⑤②⑥②⑦②⑧②⑨②⑩②⑪②⑫②⑬②⑭②⑮②⑯②⑰②⑱②⑲②⑳③①③②③③③④③⑤③⑥③⑦③⑧③⑨③⑩③⑪③⑫③⑬③⑭③⑮③⑯③⑰③⑱③⑲③􏿽xE2
mberends lichtkind: pretty! is there a 2 column layout possible, to have the Planet Perl 6 and Rakudo.org news lists next to each other? (ok, this may be asking too much)
lue AAh! (obviously, it doesn't like unicode...) 02:13
arlinius 'ⅰ'..'ⅻ'
rakudo: say 'ⅰ'..'ⅻ';
p6eval rakudo 3b869c:
..OUTPUT«ⅰⅱⅲⅳⅴⅵⅶⅷⅸⅹⅺⅻⅰⅰⅰⅱⅰⅲⅰⅳⅰⅴⅰⅵⅰⅶⅰⅷⅰⅸⅰⅹⅰⅺⅰⅻⅱⅰⅱⅱⅱⅲⅱⅳⅱⅴⅱⅵⅱⅶⅱⅷⅱⅸⅱⅹⅱⅺⅱⅻⅲⅰⅲⅱⅲⅲⅲⅳⅲⅴⅲⅵⅲⅶⅲⅷⅲⅸⅲⅹⅲⅺⅲⅻⅳⅰⅳⅱⅳⅲⅳⅳⅳⅴⅳⅵⅳⅶⅳⅷⅳⅸⅳⅹⅳⅺⅳⅻⅴⅰⅴⅱⅴⅲⅴⅳⅴⅴⅴⅵⅴⅶⅴⅷⅴⅸⅴⅹⅴⅺⅴⅻⅵⅰⅵⅱⅵⅲⅵ􏿽xE2
lichtkind mberends: dunno i didnt made these
mberends ok
lue fun with UTF-8!
arlinius it doesn't like wrapping
snarkyboojum shouldn't 'Z'.succ after 'Z' be true? 02:14
arlinius rakudo: say '①'..'⑲'
p6eval rakudo 3b869c: OUTPUT«①②③④⑤⑥⑦⑧⑨⑩⑪⑫⑬⑭⑮⑯⑰⑱⑲␤»
lue hmmm...
I truly think the garbage text can be avoided if we supported the whole unicode set... 02:15
rakudo: say 'i'..'xi';
p6eval rakudo 3b869c: OUTPUT«ijklmnopqrstuvwx␤»
arlinius lue: the problem would still happen for $last_unicode_char.succ
lue it ought to wrap around, to u+0000
or just stop. 02:16
not throw a hissy fit :D
arlinius u+0000 or u+0000 u+0000?
lue The very first character of unicode: null
lichtkind mberends: were heroes well done, im thinking of a link from implmentation to a perl 6 spec page buts that can wait
lue finds the parallel conversations amusing (unicode ranges & perlfoundation wiki) 02:17
mberends lichtkind: good work, you deserve a rest
lichtkind :)
snarkyboojum lue: I guess it'll stop eventually (when we run out of memory) :) 02:18
mberends this is coming along nicely: www.perlfoundation.org/perl6/index....mentations
02:18 meppl left
lue Most of the upper unicode values (u+FFFF, around that area) are reserved for `private use' anyway. Still a good idea to support them though 02:19
lichtkind good night
02:19 lichtkind left
mberends phew! now to get back to what I was studying before ;) 02:20
lue why they can't un-unify the Chinese/Japanese/Korean characters and put them in that extra space, who knows?
arlinius I do tend to agree that ranges should work for all of Unicode. On the other hand, maybe the Range class also needs a 'universe' attribute for working with smaller ranges. Define your universe to 'A'..'Z' and you get 'Z'.succ => 'AA'. 02:21
02:22 mberends left
arlinius lue: private use isn't really "extra", it's just that -- private use 02:22
not that there aren't plenty of still-undefined reserved (non private use) ranges 02:23
colomon TimToady: oooo, good point on the pir:: in the trig tests. It's basically a workaround for a really annoying Rakudo bug, as soon as the bug is gone it can go away. If we just take it out now, it will cause a significant performance hit on the spectests.
I'd certainly be very happy if the bug went away over the weekend. I will try to bug jnthn about it. 02:24
lue Exegesis Man loaned me his bug spray.
lue tosses Exegesis Bug Spray to colomon
TimToady colomon: that's fine, it just needs to go at some point 02:29
lue rakudo: say ord('Z') 02:30
p6eval rakudo 3b869c: OUTPUT«90␤»
lue rakudo say chr(90)
rakudo: say chr(91)
p6eval rakudo 3b869c: OUTPUT«[␤»
lue rakudo: say 'A'..'[' 02:31
p6eval rakudo 3b869c: ( no output )
02:31 japhb joined
snarkyboojum infix after is just doing a cmp 02:31
rakudo: say ('ZA' cmp 'Z' == +1) 02:32
p6eval rakudo 3b869c: OUTPUT«1␤»
snarkyboojum rakudo: say ('AA' cmp 'Z' == +1)
p6eval rakudo 3b869c: OUTPUT«0␤»
colomon Oh right, another issue to worry about. :)
snarkyboojum rakudo: say 'Z'.succ
p6eval rakudo 3b869c: OUTPUT«AA␤»
lue yeah, right now it seems to be a problem with the RANGES constant (I'm tempted to rewrite the whole thing)
colomon I'm pretty sure that's what after is supposed to do.
lue (by whole thing, I mean the constant. It's big)
colomon But something more clearly needs to be done for iterating over strings. 02:33
is it just factoring in length?
arlinius colomon: so 'AA' isn't supposed to be after 'Z'? or is 'AA' not supposed to be 'Z'.succ?
lue rakudo: say 'Z'.succ 02:34
p6eval rakudo 3b869c: OUTPUT«AA␤»
lue AH HA...?
colomon it is.
lue rakudo: say 'Z'.succ ~~ 'AA'
p6eval rakudo 3b869c: OUTPUT«1␤»
arlinius both?
lue rakudo: say 'Z'.succ == 'AA'
p6eval rakudo 3b869c: OUTPUT«1␤»
colomon the problem (at least the problem I know about) is that if you say 'AA'..'Z', Range thinks that's fine.
but actually, it's the empty list.
lue rakudo: say 'AA'..'Z'
p6eval rakudo 3b869c:
..OUTPUT«AAABACADAEAFAGAHAIAJAKALAMANAOAPAQARASATAUAVAWAXAYAZBABBBCBDBEBFBGBHBIBJBKBLBMBNBOBPBQBRBSBTBUBVBWBXBYBZCACBCCCDCECFCGCHCICJCKCLCMCNCOCPCQCRCSCTCUCVCWCXCYCZDADBDCDDDEDFDGDHDIDJDKDLDMDNDODPDQDRDSDTDUDVDWDXDYDZEAEBECEDEEEFEGEHEIEJEKELEMENEOEPEQERESETEUEVEWEXEYEZFAFBFCFDFEFFFGFHFIFJFK… 02:35
TimToady Str.succ is not intended to produce values in lexicographic order, which is relatively useless in real life. So we steal .succ (and ++) for "counting with carry" in customary ranges
lue TimToady: should Range (for strings) support unicode?
rakudo: say 'A'..'£' #as in, this working
colomon TimToady: Is there a function which is supposed to provide the corresponding less than operator?
p6eval rakudo 3b869c: ( no output )
colomon alpha: say 'AA'..'Z' 02:36
p6eval alpha 30e0ed: OUTPUT«␤»
snarkyboojum succ and after don't match up, e.g. the successor of 'Z' isn't "after" Z
colomon snarkyboojum: exactly. 02:37
lue rakudo: say 'AA' after 'Z' 02:38
p6eval rakudo 3b869c: OUTPUT«0␤»
lue rakudo: say '[' after 'Z'
p6eval rakudo 3b869c: OUTPUT«1␤»
02:38 ShaneC left
lue so the after infix deals in unicode, while succ doesn't? Weird... 02:38
arlinius rakudo: say 'AA'.pred
p6eval rakudo 3b869c: ( no output )
snarkyboojum because 'AA' cmp 'Z' doesn't equal 1
TimToady 'a'..'£' looks completely useless to me
but see S03:431 and following 02:39
actually, that section implies that .succ is not used for ++ on strings, hmm...
lue it's just an example. I typed £ last night on accident, been using it for the example ever since :)
snarkyboojum but I wouldn't expect Rakudo to keep building an infinitely long string (in the limit)
TimToady that's specced, though
snarkyboojum cool :) 02:40
I'm a complete newbie
TimToady see S03:2029
lue how's about japanese kana? Seems like that would fail, considering it's not part of RANGES.
TimToady we let A'..'£' produce an infinite list on the basis that it's also lazy 02:41
arlinius almost any alphabet in Unicode, really
lue seems terribly arrogant to me to only allow english, greek, and a few (seemingly random) number sets. 02:42
TimToady why would you want to in increment kana?
it's not like the codepoints follow the a,i,u,e,o song... :)
snarkyboojum cool - so it's not a bug :) sweet 02:43
lue If you were writing japanese software. Same reason english people'd want to increment the English alphabet.
snarkyboojum alpha: say 'A'..'£'
p6eval alpha 30e0ed: OUTPUT«ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ␤»
TimToady you can still use it as a Range, as in testing cmp its endpoints
snarkyboojum so the behaviour has changed
lue (hey, unicode better fix that, TimToady.)
TimToady but cmp has nothing to do with .succ, really
TimToady sings the a,i,u,e,o song to himself...
snarkyboojum it's just that the RangeIterator uses .succ and then does a check with 'after' (which uses cmp) 02:44
lue Our Salute to Confusing Programming
TimToady yes, and then if you do something non-sensical, you get a lot of nonsense :)
snarkyboojum but this is a bug 02:45
rakudo: say 'A'..'Z'
p6eval rakudo 3b869c:
..OUTPUT«ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZAAABACADAEAFAGAHAIAJAKALAMANAOAPAQARASATAUAVAWAXAYAZBABBBCBDBEBFBGBHBIBJBKBLBMBNBOBPBQBRBSBTBUBVBWBXBYBZCACBCCCDCECFCGCHCICJCKCLCMCNCOCPCQCRCSCTCUCVCWCXCYCZDADBDCDDDEDFDGDHDIDJDKDLDMDNDODPDQDRDSDTDUDVDWDXDYDZEAEBECEDEEEFEGEHEIEJEKELEMENEOEPEQERESETEUEVEWEX…
snarkyboojum because Z.succ is not 'after' Z
anyway - I'm sure this is all very obvious to everyone apart from me :)
TimToady the test is supposed to be !after, which matches eqv
japhb Rakudo team: belated congratulations on the ng release!
TimToady or the other way around 02:46
arlinius should 'AA' be after 'Z'?
TimToady anyway, a direct hit is suppose to stop it
if you increment Z, yes
arlinius with the 'after' operator, I mean
TimToady but not if you use 'after'
lue rakudo: say 'Z'.succ after 'Z'
p6eval rakudo 3b869c: OUTPUT«0␤»
arlinius how is after different from lt?
lue therein lies the bug 02:47
arlinius gt rather
TimToady S03:2051 is talking about you, the Astute Reader
snarkyboojum heh
lue how do I jump to a certain line, exactly? 02:48
in the spec
colomon is being drasticted by an offer on his house, and company. Apologies... 02:49
s/drasticted/distracted/
TimToady oh wait, my lines are off, hang on
eternaleye Maybe better would be just setting a 'no more' variable on $curr ~~ $endpoint, rather than using after?
And then returning the EMPTY failure 02:50
(if the 'no more' state var is set, that is)
pugs_svn r29784 | lwall++ | [S03] document how an "impossible" limit can terminate a series
lue thinks it would have be easier to program if you didn't limit what the ranges could be. 02:51
TimToady that may take a while to propagate through
after it does, the irclog will link to the line in the spec
the log is at irclog.perlgeek.de/perl6/today 02:52
for the moment you'll have to back up a page to find the paragraph with "astute reader" 02:53
dinner &
02:53 eternaleye_ joined
lue the bad thing about perlcabal.org is that the S03 page freezes my browser (it's due to a plugin, but still...) 02:53
02:54 eternaleye left
lue ...so what's the final deal with string ranges? 02:56
02:58 eternaleye_ is now known as eternaleye 03:00 cdarroch left
lue in the meantime, I will work on the P6 novelty calendar system (almost done) 03:00
snarkyboojum well get() in RangeIter should definitely stop when it gets to max, so that's a bug (I guess) and it sounds like the rest of the behaviour is spec'd and will work nicely with lazy lists :)
my first foray into Rakudo code :) 03:01
lue *grumblegrumble*... ok. I still wish it would loop through irregardless of where in unicode. Ah well, that's for Perl 6.1, I guess :)
arlinius lue: you can always loop through ints and chr() them 03:02
lue that's true. The only reason I was really hot on this was because I want to fix something in Rakudo! 03:03
snarkyboojum me too :) 03:04
lue I've also tried to get the ≤ and ≥ symbols into standard Rakudo. But it'll have to be a module, I guess. 03:05
rakudo: for (my $i=80; $i<=100; $i++) { say chr($i); } 03:08
p6eval rakudo 3b869c: OUTPUT«Unsupported use of C-style "for (;;)" loop; in Perl 6 please use "loop (;;)" at line 11, near "(my $i=80;"␤current instr.: 'perl6;HLL;Grammar;panic' pc 500 (ext/nqp-rx/src/stage0/HLL-s0.pir:328)␤»
lue rakudo: loop (my $i=80; $i<=100; $i++) { say chr($i); } 03:09
p6eval rakudo 3b869c: OUTPUT«P␤Q␤R␤S␤T␤U␤V␤W␤X␤Y␤Z␤[␤\␤]␤^␤_␤`␤a␤b␤c␤d␤»
lue rakudo: loop (my $i=200; $i<=220; $i++) { say chr($i); }
p6eval rakudo 3b869c: OUTPUT«È␤É␤Ê␤Ë␤Ì␤Í␤Î␤Ï␤Ð␤Ñ␤Ò␤Ó␤Ô␤Õ␤Ö␤×␤Ø␤Ù␤Ú␤Û␤Ü␤»
03:10 snarkyboojum left 03:11 snarkyboojum joined
lue rakudo: loop (my $i=500; $i<=520; $i++) { say chr($i); } 03:12
p6eval rakudo 3b869c: OUTPUT«Ǵ␤ǵ␤Ƕ␤Ƿ␤Ǹ␤ǹ␤Ǻ␤ǻ␤Ǽ␤ǽ␤Ǿ␤ǿ␤Ȁ␤ȁ␤Ȃ␤ȃ␤Ȅ␤ȅ␤Ȇ␤ȇ␤Ȉ␤»
lue rakudo: loop (my $i=1000; $i<=1020; $i++) { say chr($i); }
p6eval rakudo 3b869c: OUTPUT«Ϩ␤ϩ␤Ϫ␤ϫ␤Ϭ␤ϭ␤Ϯ␤ϯ␤ϰ␤ϱ␤ϲ␤ϳ␤ϴ␤ϵ␤϶␤Ϸ␤ϸ␤Ϲ␤Ϻ␤ϻ␤ϼ␤»
lue rakudo: loop (my $i=2000; $i<=2020; $i++) { say chr($i); } #obviously, I'm slightly bored 03:13
p6eval rakudo 3b869c: OUTPUT«ߐ␤ߑ␤ߒ␤ߓ␤ߔ␤ߕ␤ߖ␤ߗ␤ߘ␤ߙ␤ߚ␤ߛ␤ߜ␤ߝ␤ߞ␤ߟ␤ߠ␤ߡ␤ߢ␤ߣ␤ߤ␤»
lue uhm...
TimToady you wanting hex? 03:18
lue no, I'm good. (I know full well it was all in decimal) 03:21
TimToady looks like the S links have caught up with reality
03:22 pnate left
lue rakudo: loop (my $i=0x2000; $i<=0x2020; $i++) { say chr($i); } #oh boy 03:25
p6eval rakudo 3b869c: OUTPUT«􏿽xE2􏿽x80􏿽x80􏿽xE2􏿽x90􏿽xA4􏿽xE2􏿽x80􏿽x81􏿽xE2􏿽x90􏿽xA4 ␤ ␤ ␤ ␤ ␤ ␤ ␤ ␤ ␤​␤‌␤‍␤‎␤‏␤‐␤‑␤‒␤–␤—␤―␤‖␤‗␤‘␤’␤‚␤‛␤“␤”␤„␤‟␤†␤»
lue rakudo: loop (my $i=0x4000; $i<=0x4020; $i++) { say chr($i); } 03:26
p6eval rakudo 3b869c: OUTPUT«䀀␤䀁␤䀂␤䀃␤䀄␤䀅␤䀆␤䀇␤䀈␤䀉␤䀊␤䀋␤䀌␤䀍␤䀎␤䀏␤䀐␤䀑␤䀒␤䀓␤䀔␤䀕␤䀖␤䀗␤䀘␤䀙␤䀚␤䀛␤䀜␤䀝␤䀞␤䀟␤䀠␤»
03:27 pnate joined
lue rakudo: loop (my $i=0x5000; $i<=0x5020; $i++) { say chr($i); } 03:33
p6eval rakudo 3b869c: OUTPUT«倀␤倁␤倂␤倃␤倄␤倅␤倆␤倇␤倈␤倉␤倊␤個␤倌␤倍␤倎␤倏␤倐␤們␤倒␤倓␤倔␤倕␤倖␤倗␤倘␤候␤倚␤倛␤倜␤倝␤倞␤借␤倠␤»
03:36 gabiruh_ left
lue Can anybody give me various 'terms' related to Perl6? Such as Rakudo, Parrot, -Ofun, etc. 03:37
colomon rakudo: say 1 <=> 2 03:39
p6eval rakudo 3b869c: OUTPUT«-1␤»
pmichaud Rakudo: An implementation of Perl 6. 03:40
Parrot: The virtual machine underlying Rakudo Perl 6. Parrot is also intended to support other dynamic languages.
-Ofun: "optimize(d) for fun" -- how we decide what to work on.
other terms from the rakudo side include NQP, PCT, PAST, PIR, PMC 03:41
we also have STD and STD.pm
colomon pmichaud: did you have any thoughts on how to properly fix the "our @a;" in classes bug? TimToady rightfully pointed out that putting the pir-version of it in the trig tests to optimize them isn't really kosher... 03:42
lue Great! I needed some of them for the P6 novelty calendar system.
TimToady LTA
pmichaud and LTM
Synopses 03:43
Pugs
colomon: it's bound to be a method bug; that tends to be jnthn++'s area
TimToady setting 03:44
pmichaud CORE 03:45
PGE
Camelia
(heck, just take a look at perl6.org)
03:45 gfx joined 03:46 TimTom joined
TimToady lexotic 03:46
colomon pmichaud: okay. 03:47
TimToady phasers
lue I'm using P6 terms for month names, and various significant people on IRC for days of the week.
pmichaud phasers! how can I forget that?!?
lue phasers in P6...?
pmichaud yes, phasers.
colomon they help deal with the daleks. 03:48
TimTom rakudo: say [+] (5,4,3)
p6eval rakudo 3b869c: OUTPUT«Confused at line 11, near "say [+] (5"␤current instr.: 'perl6;HLL;Grammar;panic' pc 500 (ext/nqp-rx/src/stage0/HLL-s0.pir:328)␤»
pmichaud see S04 for details, but a "phaser" is one of those elements that manage transitions between different phases of execution.
TimTom So are the [] meta operators not implemented or did the syntax change?
pmichaud rakudo (new branch) doesn't have [] yet.
colomon TimTom: NYI
pmichaud alpha: say [+] 5,4,3; 03:49
p6eval alpha 30e0ed: OUTPUT«12␤»
TimToady unspace
pmichaud I hope to have [] working again in a week or so
TimToady feeds
TimTom Yea, I knew alpha had them because I was running a program that used to work and trying to figure out the errors
When it was in a method it was complaining about it being unable to find the end } in blockoid :)
TimToady sigspace, ratchet 03:50
captures, parcels 03:51
roles
junctions
TimTom It also looks like @_ is read only right now? I had to create and name my own temporary variable because it gave me "Placeholder variable cannot override existing signature at ..." 03:52
Ah. I think that was because it was the second term in an assignment expansion. If I assign directly to it, it reports it's read only 03:53
TimToady shortnames/longnames 03:54
Christmas 03:56
colomon hyper!
pmichaud laziness (it's not longer just a virtue, it's a feature!)
sjohnson TimTommy
TimToady but that's also Haskell 03:57
03:57 wknight8111 left
lue Heh, laziness is gonna be the last month :) 03:58
pmichaud make it the first month, and you can leave the other months blank.
03:58 stephenlb left
pmichaud ("What happened to the rest of the months?" "Laziness.") 03:58
lue I'll upload the spreadsheet containing the calendar when it's all filled out. 03:59
pugs_svn r29785 | colomon++ | [t/spec] Unfudge "Y".."AB" tests we now pass. 04:07
dalek kudo/master: 71d8848 | (Solomon Foster)++ | src/core/RangeIter.pm:
Get RangeIter to handle the Str cases properly.
 04:10
kudo/master: abb98b4 | (Solomon Foster)++ | src/core/Any-list.pm:
Add proto for pick.
TimTom rakudo: my @temp; my @a = <1 2 3>; @temp = @a[1,2]; @a.push(@temp); say @a.perl; 04:11
p6eval rakudo 3b869c: OUTPUT«["1", "2", "3", "2", "3"]␤»
lue aaah! /o\ those phasers would come in handy now
TimTom rakudo: my $temp; my @temp; my @a = <1 2 3>; ($temp, @temp) = @a; @a.push(@temp); say @a.perl;
p6eval rakudo 3b869c: OUTPUT«["1", "2", "3", ["2", "3"]]␤»
lue rakudo: phaser daleks
p6eval rakudo 3b869c: OUTPUT«Could not find non-existent sub &daleks␤current instr.: '_block14' pc 29 (EVAL_1:0)␤»
Tene rakudo: END { daleks } 04:12
p6eval rakudo 3b869c: OUTPUT«Could not find non-existent sub &daleks␤current instr.: '_block43' pc 167 (EVAL_1:80)␤»
Tene rakudo: DESTROY { daleks }
p6eval rakudo 3b869c: OUTPUT«Could not find non-existent sub &DESTROY␤current instr.: '_block14' pc 29 (EVAL_1:0)␤»
lue rakudo: multi sub infix :<exterminate> ($a, $b) { say "{$a} exterminates {$b}"; }; "daleks" exterminate "humans"; 04:15
p6eval rakudo 3b869c: OUTPUT«Method 'panic' not found for invocant of class 'Regex;Match'␤current instr.: 'perl6;Perl6;Actions;trait' pc 187361 (src/gen/perl6-actions.pir:7153)␤»
lue hmm, needs work
TimTom rakudo: my $a; my @b; ($a, @b) = <1 2 3>; say @b.perl 04:16
p6eval rakudo 3b869c: OUTPUT«[["2", "3"]]␤»
TimTom I don't think that's right. Is it a known issue?
lue That's right (I think) 04:17
TimTom It should be ["2", "3"]
TimToady just like p5 list assignment
lue rakudo: my $a; my @b; ($a, @b) = <1 2 3>;say $a.perl; say @b.perl
p6eval rakudo 3b869c: OUTPUT«"1"␤[["2", "3"]]␤»
TimTom It's an array of 1 element containing an array with the 2 elements inside it 04:18
colomon rakudo: my $a; my @b; ($a, *@b) = <1 2 3>; say @b.perl
p6eval rakudo 3b869c: OUTPUT«Confused at line 11, near "($a, *@b) "␤current instr.: 'perl6;HLL;Grammar;panic' pc 500 (ext/nqp-rx/src/stage0/HLL-s0.pir:328)␤»
colomon rakudo: my $a; my @b; ($a, $b) = <1 2 3>;say $a.perl; say $b.perl
p6eval rakudo 3b869c: OUTPUT«Symbol '$b' not predeclared in <anonymous>␤current instr.: 'perl6;PCT;HLLCompiler;panic' pc 137 (compilers/pct/src/PCT/HLLCompiler.pir:101)␤»
TimTom alpha: my $a; my @b; ($a, @b) = <1 2 3>; say @b.perl
TimToady std: my $a; my @b; ($a, *@b) = <1 2 3>; say @b.perl
p6eval alpha 30e0ed: OUTPUT«["2", "3"]␤»
std 29784: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Two terms in a row at /tmp/y7COKXhGfX line 1:␤------> my $a; my @b; ($a, *⏏@b) = <1 2 3>; say @b.perl␤ expecting any of:␤ POST␤ bracketed infix␤ infix or meta-infix␤ postfix␤ postfix_prefix_meta_operator␤
..statement modifier loop␤…
TimTom Alpha does what I expect with it 04:19
TimToady but it's an array
oh, wait, that's inside the french quotes 04:20
so yes
alpha is right
I was reading the [...] as OUTPUT delims 04:21
lue silly TimToady, [] are for Arrays! 04:22
TimToady I'll learn this language someday...
TimTom Yea. I figured that's why most people were coming to the defense of master, it's real hard to disambiguate the single [ from the double [[ when there's all the other symbols around it 04:23
04:23 plainhao joined
TimToady party because [] used to be the OUTPUT delims, iirc 04:23
which is why we changed it 04:24
colomon rakudo: say 'z'..'ab' 04:28
p6eval rakudo 3b869c: OUTPUT«␤»
arlinius rakudo: say 'X'..'Z' 04:29
colomon should work once p6eval catches up with github.
p6eval rakudo 3b869c:
..OUTPUT«XYZAAABACADAEAFAGAHAIAJAKALAMANAOAPAQARASATAUAVAWAXAYAZBABBBCBDBEBFBGBHBIBJBKBLBMBNBOBPBQBRBSBTBUBVBWBXBYBZCACBCCCDCECFCGCHCICJCKCLCMCNCOCPCQCRCSCTCUCVCWCXCYCZDADBDCDDDEDFDGDHDIDJDKDLDMDNDODPDQDRDSDTDUDVDWDXDYDZEAEBECEDEEEFEGEHEIEJEKELEMENEOEPEQERESETEUEVEWEXEYEZFAFBFCFDFEFFFGFHFIF…
arlinius ah
colomon TimToady: series op should use the same scheme for incrementing / decrementing Str that range does?
TimToady yeah, one dot is not enough to do that differently :) 04:30
though it's enough to do autoreversing 04:31
lue rakudo: say 'X'...'Z'
p6eval rakudo 3b869c:
..OUTPUT«XYZAAABACADAEAFAGAHAIAJAKALAMANAOAPAQARASATAUAVAWAXAYAZBABBBCBDBEBFBGBHBIBJBKBLBMBNBOBPBQBRBSBTBUBVBWBXBYBZCACBCCCDCECFCGCHCICJCKCLCMCNCOCPCQCRCSCTCUCVCWCXCYCZDADBDCDDDEDFDGDHDIDJDKDLDMDNDODPDQDRDSDTDUDVDWDXDYDZEAEBECEDEEEFEGEHEIEJEKELEMENEOEPEQERESETEUEVEWEXEYEZFAFBFCFDFEFFFGFHFIF…
colomon TimToady: I'll try to get series sorted in the morning.
unless someone beats me to it overnight. :) 04:32
BTW, I ended up fixing RangeIter by using a new comparison function which does cmp unless you've got a Str, and handles Str specially. 04:33
That will actually be needed in Range itself and series too, I guess. Seems like it might almost be worth adding it to the Spec.
though heaven help us, preferably with a nicer name than RangeIterCmp. 04:34
afk # must sleep.
TimToady n8
eternaleye Hm, is S03:1993 _supposed to be identical to S03:2003? Because it is identical. 04:36
lue how about RangeiTerCmpter (pronounced Rangetercopter)?
04:36 TimTom left
lue hey look, someone else who uses Konversation here (besides me) 04:38
eternaleye Perhaps S03:2003 was supposed to be 1, 2 ...\n10, 20 ...\n 100, 200 ... 900; gessing from the comment preceding it about it being arithmetic 04:42
*guessing
04:47 plainhao left, mssm left
TimToady but that won't work, since it uses 3 values 04:48
pugs_svn r29786 | lwall++ | [S03] delete bogus dup code spotted by eternaleye++ 04:49
TimToady that is, 90, 100, 200 is going to confuse it
or maybe not, depend on whether the 2nd ... can actually see the earlier values 04:50
which in turn depends on whether it's right or left associative
and ... is defined as list associative, which doesn't help us :) 04:51
but it does mean we could probably force it to work with just 2 nums between the ...s 04:52
and you could force it the other way with parens 04:53
(1,2...9), 10, 20 ... 90 # second ... sees all lefthand numbers inluding 9 04:55
otoh, 9,10,20 is probably going to die if it can't intuit a function 04:57
bkeeler Nah, you just need a sufficiently advanced algorithm. Before long it will have the ability to solve those 'next number in the series' questions they have on IQ tests. 05:02
pugs_svn r29787 | lwall++ | [S03] upon further reflection, we can make eternaleye++'s conjecture work right.
TimToady I always like thos... 05:03
e
.oO(guess the next letter in the sequence...)
05:03 pnate left
bkeeler Now if you can have it guess the winning powerball numbers... 05:04
TimToady funny when a typo turns out self-referential
eternaleye I assumed it was right associative
bkeeler hehe
eternaleye Since that gives the user the most flexibility
TimToady in the table, X operators are only right associative if the operator changes 05:05
otherwise it's like zip
eternaleye Ah
TimToady dotdotdot(1,2; 10,20; 100,200; 900)
and the function can evaluate the lists however it sees fit 05:06
each of the sublists is independently lazy
which is good, since we can't evaluate a list on the left till we've evaluated at least one value of the next list to the right 05:07
and, of course, zip itself does them all in parallel
eternaleye Which is why I assumed right assoc without thinking about it further
TimToady I'm almost getting to like this language 05:09
eternaleye rakudo: (1, 1 ... &[+]).map: *.say; 05:11
p6eval rakudo 71d884: OUTPUT«Confused at line 11, near "(1, 1 ... "␤current instr.: 'perl6;HLL;Grammar;panic' pc 500 (ext/nqp-rx/src/stage0/HLL-s0.pir:328)␤»
eternaleye rakudo: (1, 1 ... &infix:<+>).map: *.say; 05:12
p6eval rakudo 71d884: OUTPUT«Symbol '&infix:<+>' not predeclared in <anonymous>␤current instr.: 'perl6;PCT;HLLCompiler;panic' pc 137 (compilers/pct/src/PCT/HLLCompiler.pir:101)␤»
TimToady rakudo: say ('↑'.ord..'↓'.ord)».chr 05:14
p6eval rakudo 71d884: OUTPUT«Confused at line 11, near "say ('\u2191'.o"␤current instr.: 'perl6;HLL;Grammar;panic' pc 500 (ext/nqp-rx/src/stage0/HLL-s0.pir:328)␤»
TimToady alpha: say ('↑'.ord..'↓'.ord)».chr 05:15
p6eval alpha 30e0ed: OUTPUT«sh: ../rakudo-alpha/perl6: No such file or directory␤»
TimToady std: say ('↑'.ord..'↓'.ord)».chr
p6eval std 29786: OUTPUT«ok 00:01 108m␤»
TimToady I have no idea why rakudo doesn't parse that 05:16
unless it's messed up on unicode
rakudo: '↑'
p6eval rakudo 71d884: ( no output )
TimToady rakudo: say '↑'
p6eval rakudo 71d884: OUTPUT«↑␤»
TimToady rakudo: say '↑'.ord 05:17
p6eval rakudo 71d884: OUTPUT«8593␤»
TimToady rakudo: say '↑'.ord..'↓'.ord
p6eval rakudo 71d884: OUTPUT«859385948595␤»
TimToady rakudo: say ('↑'.ord..'↓'.ord)
p6eval rakudo 71d884: OUTPUT«859385948595␤»
TimToady rakudo: say ('↑'.ord..'↓'.ord)>>.chr
p6eval rakudo 71d884: OUTPUT«↑→↓␤»
TimToady rakudo: say ('↑'.ord..'↓'.ord)».chr 05:18
p6eval rakudo 71d884: OUTPUT«Confused at line 11, near "say ('\u2191'.o"␤current instr.: 'perl6;HLL;Grammar;panic' pc 500 (ext/nqp-rx/src/stage0/HLL-s0.pir:328)␤»
TimToady hah, groks arrows but not french hypers
.oO(doubtless implemented by a Texan...)
 05:19
lue what about ‹› ? 05:21
05:21 quietfanatic joined
lue I have the p6 hex calendar done, will upload tomorrow. 05:24
TimToady .u ‹› 05:32
phenny U+2039 SINGLE LEFT-POINTING ANGLE QUOTATION MARK (‹)
U+203A SINGLE RIGHT-POINTING ANGLE QUOTATION MARK (›)
TimToady we are trying to keep Perl 6 in the latin-1 range
there will be modules, of course
diakopter rakudo: say 'X'..'Z' 05:37
p6eval rakudo 71d884: OUTPUT«XYZ␤»
diakopter fix-ed
lue rakudo: say 'X'..'AA' 05:39
p6eval rakudo 71d884: OUTPUT«XYZAA␤»
lue rakudo: say 'A'..'Z'
p6eval rakudo 71d884: OUTPUT«ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ␤»
lue rakudo: say 'A'..'£'
TimToady \o/
p6eval rakudo 71d884: OUTPUT«ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ␤»
lue \o/
TimToady that's techinically incorrect
lue I know, but at least it doesn't go on forever :)
TimToady that's how it's incorrect 05:40
according to S03:2040
diakopter rakudo: say 'X'..'X'
p6eval rakudo 71d884: OUTPUT«X␤»
diakopter rakudo: say 'X'..''
p6eval rakudo 71d884: OUTPUT«␤»
diakopter rakudo: say 'X'..145 05:41
p6eval rakudo 71d884: OUTPUT«␤»
diakopter rakudo: say 5..'V'
o_O
p6eval rakudo 71d884: ( no output )
TimToady maybe that one goes on forever :)
rakudo: say (5..'V').batch(50) 05:42
p6eval rakudo 71d884: OUTPUT«Method 'batch' not found for invocant of class 'Range'␤current instr.: '_block14' pc 29 (EVAL_1:0)␤»
diakopter rakudo: (5..'V').iterator.getAndSay(50)
p6eval rakudo 71d884: OUTPUT«Method 'getAndSay' not found for invocant of class 'RangeIter'␤current instr.: '_block14' pc 29 (EVAL_1:0)␤»
lue rakudo: say 'a'..'Z'
p6eval rakudo 71d884: OUTPUT«␤»
diakopter smth like that
TimToady rakudo: say (5..'V').iterator.batch(50)
p6eval rakudo 71d884: OUTPUT«56789101112131415161718192021222324252627282930313233343536373839404142434445464748495051525354␤»
lue rakudo: say 'Z'..'A'
p6eval rakudo 71d884: OUTPUT«␤»
snarkyboojum rakudo: (5..'V').iterator.GetAndSay(50)
p6eval rakudo 71d884: OUTPUT«Method 'GetAndSay' not found for invocant of class 'RangeIter'␤current instr.: '_block14' pc 29 (EVAL_1:0)␤»
TimToady rakudo: say 'Z'...'Z'
p6eval rakudo 71d884: OUTPUT«Z␤» 05:43
TimToady rakudo: say 'Z'...'A'
arlinius rakudo: say 'A'..'↓';
lue rakudo: say ('A'..'Z').flip
p6eval rakudo 71d884: OUTPUT«ZYXWVUTSRQPONMLKJIHGFEDCBA␤»
rakudo 71d884: OUTPUT«ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ␤»
rakudo 71d884: OUTPUT«Z Y X W V U T S R Q P O N M L K J I H G F E D C B A␤»
lue It's somewhat sad we're having fun and getting excited over this working.
(But I don't care)
rakudo: say 'H'..'O'
p6eval rakudo 71d884: OUTPUT«HIJKLMNO␤»
TimToady ('a'..'z').backflip
diakopter pugs: say ('A'..'Z').flip 05:44
TimToady maybe that should invert the letters :)
p6eval pugs: OUTPUT«*** No such method in class Array: "&flip"␤ at /tmp/kPf1BbAw2T line 1, column 5 - line 2, column 1␤»
lue rakudo: say 'π'..'∏'
p6eval rakudo 71d884: OUTPUT«πρστυφχψω␤»
diakopter pugs: say ('A'..'Z').reverse
p6eval pugs: OUTPUT«ZYXWVUTSRQPONMLKJIHGFEDCBA␤»
TimToady pugs won't know about flip
lue rakudo: say 'a'..'π'
p6eval rakudo 71d884: OUTPUT«abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz␤»
lue (too much fun)
TimToady that's Perl 5 semantics, but not Pelr 6 05:45
or Perl 6 either
snarkyboojum rakudo: say 'A'..'z'
p6eval rakudo 71d884: OUTPUT«ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ␤»
snarkyboojum rakudo: say 'A'..'Z'
p6eval rakudo 71d884: OUTPUT«ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ␤»
snarkyboojum rakudo: say 'a' .. 'Z'
p6eval rakudo 71d884: OUTPUT«␤»
snarkyboojum rakudo: say 'A'..'z'
p6eval rakudo 71d884: OUTPUT«ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ␤» 05:46
snarkyboojum that looks wrong?
diakopter rakudo: say 5....7
p6eval rakudo 71d884: OUTPUT«54321␤»
diakopter heh
TimToady snerk
diakopter pugs: say 5....7
p6eval pugs: OUTPUT«*** ␤ Unexpected "...."␤ expecting "_", exponent, term postfix, operator, ":" or ","␤ at /tmp/7AhVhbe6Oe line 1, column 6␤»
TimToady if you want to confuse 'em...
rakudo: say 5....1 05:47
p6eval rakudo 71d884: OUTPUT«54321␤»
lue rakudo: say 'Q'..'Y'
p6eval rakudo 71d884: OUTPUT«QRSTUVWXY␤»
diakopter rakudo: say 5... .7
p6eval rakudo 71d884: OUTPUT«54321␤»
TimToady .1 is funner
diakopter o
lue rakudo: say 'œ' .. '¥' # this _will_ fail, let's see how
p6eval rakudo 71d884: OUTPUT«␤»
diakopter rakudo: 33242..-33242.say 05:48
p6eval rakudo 71d884: OUTPUT«33242␤»
diakopter eh
rakudo: 5..2.say
p6eval rakudo 71d884: OUTPUT«2␤» 05:49
lue rakudo: say 'OUTPUT«',('E'..'Y').flip,'» Thank you for using p6evalbot. Have a nice day.'
p6eval rakudo 71d884: OUTPUT«OUTPUT«Y X W V U T S R Q P O N M L K J I H G F E» Thank you for using p6evalbot. Have a nice day.␤»
TimToady rakudo: .say when 'œ' .. '¥' for map *.chr, 1..2000
p6eval rakudo 71d884: OUTPUT«Missing block at line 11, near "for map *."␤current instr.: 'perl6;HLL;Grammar;panic' pc 500 (ext/nqp-rx/src/stage0/HLL-s0.pir:328)␤»
TimToady std: .say when 'œ' .. '¥' for map *.chr, 1..2000
diakopter std: .say when 'œ' .. '¥' for map *.chr, 1..2000
p6eval std 29787: OUTPUT«ok 00:01 108m␤»
std 29787: OUTPUT«ok 00:01 106m␤»
diakopter hm
TimToady beetchya
lue beat chias? OK! 05:50
lue beats up annoying Ch-Ch-Ch-Chia's
TimToady anyway, looks like rakudo doesn't grok 'when' as a statement mod, or doesn't allow if inside while 05:51
rakudo: say 42 if 43 while 0
p6eval rakudo 71d884: ( no output )
lue rakudo: my $hey=True; say 'hello' if $hey;
p6eval rakudo 71d884: OUTPUT«hello␤»
lue rakudo: my $hey=True; say 'hello' if ($hey and 0); 05:52
TimToady rakudo: say 42 if 43 for 1..2
p6eval rakudo 71d884: ( no output )
rakudo 71d884: OUTPUT«Missing block at line 11, near ""␤current instr.: 'perl6;HLL;Grammar;panic' pc 500 (ext/nqp-rx/src/stage0/HLL-s0.pir:328)␤»
TimToady parsebug
lue rakudo: my $hey=True; say 'hello' if ($hey and 1);
p6eval rakudo 71d884: OUTPUT«hello␤»
lue rakudo: my $hey=True; say 'hello' if ($hey and !0);
p6eval rakudo 71d884: OUTPUT«hello␤»
TimToady another one of those p5isms...
lue rakudo: my $hey=True; say 'hello' if !$hey;
p6eval rakudo 71d884: ( no output )
lue rakudo: my $hey=True; say 'hello' if ($hey and !$hey); 05:53
p6eval rakudo 71d884: ( no output )
TimToady can't do list comprehensions till we can nest ifs inside of fors
lue heh heh, Principle of Explosion (or is it Explosion Principle?) If you assume a contradiction is true, then anything can be proven.
bkeeler someone's been reading xkcd I think... 05:54
eternaleye rakudo: .say for 1 .. 10;
p6eval rakudo 71d884: OUTPUT«Missing block at line 11, near ";"␤current instr.: 'perl6;HLL;Grammar;panic' pc 500 (ext/nqp-rx/src/stage0/HLL-s0.pir:328)␤»
eternaleye TimToady: I think that none of the statement modifier forms are working 05:55
Or at least not for
bkeeler if and while are I think
arlinius rakudo: say 4 if 1;
TimToady but that means python is better than perl...
eternaleye 1.say if 1;
p6eval rakudo 71d884: OUTPUT«4␤»
eternaleye rakudo: 1.say if 1
p6eval rakudo 71d884: OUTPUT«1␤»
lue I have been reading XKCD. I used the Explosion Principle to derive Obama's private cell phone number :D
eternaleye Hm, so it's just for
bkeeler Yeah
arlinius rakudo: say 4 while 0;
p6eval rakudo 71d884: ( no output )
arlinius rakudo: say 4 while 1;
lue (next up: derive Linus' address) 05:56
arlinius looks like while works ...
p6eval rakudo 71d884:
..OUTPUT«4␤4␤4␤4␤4␤4␤4␤4␤4␤4␤4␤4␤4␤4␤4␤4␤4␤4␤4␤4␤4␤4␤4␤4␤4␤4␤4␤4␤4␤4␤4␤4␤4␤4␤4␤4␤4␤4␤4␤4␤4␤4␤4␤4␤4␤4␤4␤4␤4␤4␤4␤4␤4␤4␤4␤4␤4␤4␤4␤4␤4␤4␤4␤4␤4␤4␤4␤4␤4␤4␤4␤4␤4␤4␤4␤4␤4␤4␤4␤4␤4␤4␤4␤4␤4␤4␤4␤4␤4␤4␤4␤4␤4␤4␤4␤4␤4␤4␤4␤4␤4␤4␤4␤4␤4􏿽xE2
arlinius rakudo: say 3 unless 0;
p6eval rakudo 71d884: OUTPUT«3␤»
bkeeler rakudo: return 'fred' if 1
p6eval rakudo 71d884: OUTPUT«Missing block at line 11, near ""␤current instr.: 'perl6;HLL;Grammar;panic' pc 500 (ext/nqp-rx/src/stage0/HLL-s0.pir:328)␤»
bkeeler return is not currently a listop 05:57
lue rakudo: my $p = True; ($p and !$p) ?? say "The Explosion Theory has been proven by Perl6!" !! say "Darn";
p6eval rakudo 71d884: OUTPUT«Darn␤»
lue Darn
TimToady rakudo: my $p = True; ($p and !$p) ~~ True ? say "The Explosion Theory has been proven by Perl6!" !! say "Darn"; 05:58
p6eval rakudo 71d884: OUTPUT«Confused at line 11, near "($p and !$"␤current instr.: 'perl6;HLL;Grammar;panic' pc 500 (ext/nqp-rx/src/stage0/HLL-s0.pir:328)␤»
TimToady rakudo: my $p = True; ($p and !$p) ~~ True ?? say "The Explosion Theory has been proven by Perl6!" !! say "Darn";
p6eval rakudo 71d884: OUTPUT«The Explosion Theory has been proven by Perl6!␤»
TimToady there you go 05:59
lue Oh my gosh! Perl6 can divine truths like nobody's business! Call the UN! I have derived Iran's launch codes for their nuclear missiles!
lue believes that all Millenium Prize Problems can be solved with inputs of 42. 06:00
quietfanatic rakudo: say True and False 06:01
p6eval rakudo 71d884: OUTPUT«1␤»
bkeeler The true answer is "Yellow", not 42
quietfanatic our and is not very handy
rakudo: say (True and False) 06:02
bkeeler They programmed Deep Thought in Cobol, which is why it took 7.5 million years
p6eval rakudo 71d884: OUTPUT«0␤»
quietfanatic hmmm
lue If the output were 42 for any of those problems, that would be VERY creepy.
TimToady rakudo: our $queen is !amused;
p6eval rakudo 71d884: OUTPUT«Confused at line 11, near "our $queen"␤current instr.: 'perl6;HLL;Grammar;panic' pc 500 (ext/nqp-rx/src/stage0/HLL-s0.pir:328)␤»
TimToady std: our $queen is !amused;
lue bkeeler: They programmed Earth in BASIC, which is why it takes 10 million years.
p6eval std 29787: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Confused at /tmp/xYalSkFj3Q line 1:␤------> our $queen is ⏏!amused;␤ expecting name␤FAILED 00:01 108m␤»
quietfanatic rakudo: say False ~~ True 06:03
p6eval rakudo 71d884: OUTPUT«1␤»
quietfanatic rakudo: say True.ACCEPTS(False)
p6eval rakudo 71d884: OUTPUT«1␤»
TimToady ow
quietfanatic There it is.
TimToady std: our $queen :!amused; 06:04
p6eval std 29787: OUTPUT«ok 00:01 105m␤»
TimToady rakudo: say 1.ACCEPTS(False) 06:05
p6eval rakudo 71d884: OUTPUT«0␤»
TimToady rakudo: say True.ACCEPTS(False)
p6eval rakudo 71d884: OUTPUT«1␤»
TimToady rakudo: say True.ACCEPTS(0)
p6eval rakudo 71d884: OUTPUT«1␤»
TimToady rakudo: say True.WHAT
p6eval rakudo 71d884: OUTPUT«Bool()␤»
TimToady rakudo: say Bool.ACCEPTS(42) 06:06
p6eval rakudo 71d884: OUTPUT«0␤»
TimToady rakudo: say Bool.ACCEPTS(1)
p6eval rakudo 71d884: OUTPUT«0␤»
TimToady very odd
lue that's incorrect. Bool.ACCEPTS(42) ~~ 1 !
Using hyperoperators and explosion principle, perl6 can prove anything! 06:07
06:08 athenot left
lue (working on example...) 06:08
erm, I think i meant superpositions 06:09
rakudo: my $p=True; my $santa=True|False; if (($p and !$p)~~True)) { my $pres=($p and !$p); my $santaisreal=($pres or $santa); } say $santaisreal; 06:11
p6eval rakudo 71d884: OUTPUT«Missing block at line 11, near ") { my $pr"␤current instr.: 'perl6;HLL;Grammar;panic' pc 500 (ext/nqp-rx/src/stage0/HLL-s0.pir:328)␤»
lue rakudo: my $p=True; my $santa=True|False; if (($p and !$p)~~True) { my $pres=($p and !$p); my $santaisreal=($pres or $santa); } say $santaisreal; 06:12
p6eval rakudo 71d884: OUTPUT«Confused at line 11, near "if (($p an"␤current instr.: 'perl6;HLL;Grammar;panic' pc 500 (ext/nqp-rx/src/stage0/HLL-s0.pir:328)␤»
lue rakudo: my $p=True; my $santa=True|False; if ( ($p and !$p)~~True ) { my $pres=($p and !$p); my $santaisreal=($pres or $santa); } say $santaisreal;
p6eval rakudo 71d884: OUTPUT«Confused at line 11, near "if ( ($p a"␤current instr.: 'perl6;HLL;Grammar;panic' pc 500 (ext/nqp-rx/src/stage0/HLL-s0.pir:328)␤»
lue rakudo: my $p=True; my $santa=True|False; my $pres=($p and !$p); my $santaisreal=($pres or $santa); say $santaisreal; 06:13
p6eval rakudo 71d884: ( no output )
lue hmm... have to work on that.
rakudo: my $p=True; say ($p and !$p) ~~ 42; 06:15
p6eval rakudo 71d884: OUTPUT«0␤»
lue that's not right :) 06:16
TimToady rakudo: say False ~~ 42
p6eval rakudo 71d884: OUTPUT«0␤»
TimToady rakudo: say (True and !True) 06:17
p6eval rakudo 71d884: OUTPUT«0␤»
TimToady say 0 ~~ 42 06:18
lue Since it likely wouldn't be part of the spec, I'd like to make a module that causes all Boolean stuff to equal to 42 in addition to how it normally works.
TimToady rakudo: say 0 ~~ 42
p6eval rakudo 71d884: OUTPUT«0␤»
TimToady there will be modules
modules are the answer
06:18 crazed left
allbery_b monkeypatch Bool with "is also"? 06:18
06:18 crazed joined
TimToady augment 06:19
lue rakudo: my $p=True; say $p is 1; say $p is also 42;
p6eval rakudo 71d884: OUTPUT«Confused at line 11, near "say $p is "␤current instr.: 'perl6;HLL;Grammar;panic' pc 500 (ext/nqp-rx/src/stage0/HLL-s0.pir:328)␤»
lue rakudo: my $p=True; say $p is 1;
p6eval rakudo 71d884: OUTPUT«Confused at line 11, near "say $p is "␤current instr.: 'perl6;HLL;Grammar;panic' pc 500 (ext/nqp-rx/src/stage0/HLL-s0.pir:328)␤»
lue rakudo: my $p=True; say !$p=42; say $p != 42; say $p = !42; 06:20
p6eval rakudo 71d884: OUTPUT«0␤Cannot assign to readonly value␤current instr.: '&die' pc 16524 (src/builtins/Junction.pir:317)␤»
allbery_b right, I forgot the latest round of renamings (mostly because I prefer not monkeypatching. although I have an evil perl5 script that does so and an eviller ruby script that does so correctly :)
lue rakudo: my $p=True; say !$p=42; say $p != 42; say $p = !(42);
p6eval rakudo 71d884: OUTPUT«0␤Cannot assign to readonly value␤current instr.: '&die' pc 16524 (src/builtins/Junction.pir:317)␤»
allbery_b actually it's more runtime class definition
lue rakudo: my $p=True; say !$p == 42; say $p != 42; say $p == !(42);
p6eval rakudo 71d884: OUTPUT«0␤1␤0␤»
lue rakudo: my $p=True & 42; say $p~~1; say $p ~~ 42; 06:23
p6eval rakudo 71d884: OUTPUT«Method 'Num' not found for invocant of class 'Junction'␤current instr.: 'perl6;Mu;' pc -1 ((unknown file):-1)␤»
lue rakudo: my $p=True & 42; say $p ~~ 1; say $p ~~ 42;
allbery_b (lemma. in the real world, people do stupid things because of $MOTAS. in computers, it's because of printers.)
p6eval rakudo 71d884: OUTPUT«Method 'Num' not found for invocant of class 'Junction'␤current instr.: 'perl6;Mu;' pc -1 ((unknown file):-1)␤»
lue rakudo: my $p=True | 42; say $p ~~ 1; say $p ~~ 42;
p6eval rakudo 71d884: OUTPUT«Method 'Num' not found for invocant of class 'Junction'␤current instr.: 'perl6;Mu;' pc -1 ((unknown file):-1)␤»
lue rakudo: my $p=True | 42; say $p ~~ True; say $p ~~ 42;
p6eval rakudo 71d884: OUTPUT«1␤Method 'Num' not found for invocant of class 'Junction'␤current instr.: 'perl6;Mu;' pc -1 ((unknown file):-1)␤»
lue :(
TimToady seems like ~~ isn't autothreading right 06:25
did someone make its left arg a Mu?
unless ~~ is willing to handle junctions internally, it should be Any 06:27
or maybe it thinks it handles junctions internally, but Junction.Num doesn't autothread right
lue oh boy, a new bug :1
TimToady doesn't grok that smiley 06:29
lue :2
At the end of all the error messages for my junction testing above, it has a :-1 06:30
TimToady rakudo: say :1<0000>
p6eval rakudo 71d884: OUTPUT«Confused at line 11, near "say :1<000"␤current instr.: 'perl6;HLL;Grammar;panic' pc 500 (ext/nqp-rx/src/stage0/HLL-s0.pir:328)␤»
TimToady rakudo: say :2<0000>
p6eval rakudo 71d884: OUTPUT«Confused at line 11, near "say :2<000"␤current instr.: 'perl6;HLL;Grammar;panic' pc 500 (ext/nqp-rx/src/stage0/HLL-s0.pir:328)␤»
TimToady alpha: say :2<0000>
p6eval alpha 30e0ed: OUTPUT«0␤»
TimToady alpha: say :1<0000>
p6eval alpha 30e0ed: OUTPUT«radix out of range (2-36)␤in Main (file <unknown>, line <unknown>)␤»
TimToady aww 06:31
lue base 1 would just be a string of zeros. 8 (base 10) would be 00000000 (base 1)
Can you imagine base 0? *shudder*
it'd be a string of nulls. 06:33
rakudo: say 0x40,0x40,0x40; 06:34
p6eval rakudo 71d884: OUTPUT«646464␤»
allbery_b peano numbers
lue rakudo: say chr(0x40),chr(0x40),chr(0x40);
p6eval rakudo 71d884: OUTPUT«@@@␤»
lue rakudo: say chr(0x00),chr(0x00),chr(0x00);
p6eval rakudo 71d884: OUTPUT«
lue That's 0d3 in base 0 :D
allbery_b saw what that C string did there 06:35
TimToady rakudo: say "\x[40,40,40]"
p6eval rakudo 71d884: OUTPUT«@@@␤»
lue rakudo: say "Here is the number 10 in base 0: \x[00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00]" 06:36
p6eval rakudo 71d884: OUTPUT«Here is the number 10 in base 0:
arlinius that's base 1 06:37
allbery_b SSSSSSSSZ
lue no, base 1 is a string of zeros.
000000000000000 (base 1) is 15 in base 10 06:38
(base 0) is 15 in base 10 (there are 15 nulls to the left of this text) 06:39
...hello? (it's quiet here) 06:57
TimToady you'd think it was friday night or somethin' 06:58
lue that's totally weird, today is... lemme check. 06:59
vamped lol, the normal time of day for lue to be fishing for response
lue I'm looking at the P6 novelty hex calendar. Just a second...
Today is jnthn-day, Rakudo 6th, 2010. 07:03
vamped that almost (even) sounded official.
lue I may be off, because the P6 novelty hex calendar (I invented it) doesn't have leap years, so it's probably off ≈ half a day or so. 07:04
bkeeler Speaking of odd Calendars, I note that today is actually Chaoflux
lue Chaoflux... which calendar is that? 07:05
bkeeler Discordian
lue looks up Discordian
bkeeler Today is Setting Orange, the 50th day of Chaos in the YOLD 3176
Celebrate Chaoflux
"ddate" on your nearest Linux box 07:06
lue hee hee (I'm using the nearest Linux box right now!)
bkeeler If you've never googled discordianism, you'll be reading for a while ;)
lue For my hex calendar's conversion tool, I plan on taking the Epoch of the current date, and turning that into hex date/time 07:09
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lue rakudo: say time(); 07:15
p6eval rakudo 71d884: OUTPUT«1266649360.0903␤»
lue rakudo: say time(); 07:17
p6eval rakudo 71d884: OUTPUT«1266649443.07378␤»
lue rakudo: say time();
p6eval rakudo 71d884: OUTPUT«1266649453.73666␤»
TimToady rakudo: say time.WHAT
p6eval rakudo 71d884: OUTPUT«Num()␤»
lue looks like p6eval is a few seconds behind me :)
TimToady spec says Rat, actually
07:17 am0c left
lue Hey TimToady: Today is jnthn-day, Rakudo 6th. Yesterday was TimToady, Rakudo 5th. Tomorrow is colomon, Rakudo 7th 07:18
on the P6 novelty hex calendar, that is :)
s/colomon/colomon-day/ 07:19
vamped lue, i'm reading the backlog now. did you ever find any resolution to the "range boundary" issue? 07:24
lue what range boundary issue? Is it this one:
rakudo: say 'A'..'£' # this type of thing?
p6eval rakudo 71d884: OUTPUT«ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ␤»
vamped or
rakudo: say 'ⅰ'..'ⅻ';
p6eval rakudo 71d884: OUTPUT«ⅰⅱⅲⅳⅴⅵⅶⅷⅸⅹⅺⅻ␤»
07:24 nbrown left
lue Someone fixed it. 07:25
vamped great
07:25 nbrown joined
vamped rakudo: say 'Z'.succ after 'Z' 07:25
p6eval rakudo 71d884: OUTPUT«0␤»
vamped :( 07:26
I guess "after" is strictly asciibetic comparison where "AA" < "Z"
TimToady troo 07:27
lue vamped: Have you gotten to the part about Explosion Principle in the backlogs yet? That's my favorite part :)
vamped not yet
lue rakudo: my $p = True; say ($p and !$p); 07:29
p6eval rakudo 71d884: OUTPUT«0␤» 07:30
bkeeler Uuggghh. I've been staring the same unmoving cursor for 10 minutes. My brain's frazzled
07:30 nbrown left
lue rakudo: my $p = True; say ($p and !$p) ~~ True; 07:30
p6eval rakudo 71d884: OUTPUT«1␤»
bkeeler I know my brain's frazzled when it starts producing puns instead of code
lue Witness the magic of Explosion Principle!
bkeeler To wit: Make and Ant elope and make an antelope
Arrghhh time for bed it must be 07:31
lue My Hobby: writing notes for class in code because it's "easier"
code meaning Perl6 :) 07:32
vamped I do similar - putting # before handwritten comments and such 07:33
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lue Instead of writing "an carbon isotope has 12, 13, or 14 neutrons", I'd write "my $carbonisotope=12|13|14" (for example) 07:35
it's not much fun in math, because 90% of it is already P6 valid code.
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lue rakudo: my $p=True; say $p and !$p; say ($p and !$p)~~True; say ($p and !$p)~~False; 07:39
p6eval rakudo 71d884: OUTPUT«1␤1␤0␤»
lue rakudo: my $p=True; say ($p and !$p); say ($p and !$p)~~True; say ($p and !$p)~~False; 07:40
p6eval rakudo 71d884: OUTPUT«0␤1␤0␤»
lue hmm, parentheses negate the result... wonder why?
bkeeler because the say expression has higher precedence than the and, which is very low 07:41
lue ah, that's it. So the parentheses make it do the right thing. 07:42
bkeeler Yeah, otherwise it's (say $p) and !$p 07:43
Or you could use &&
lue rakudo: my $p=True; say $p and !$p; say $p && !$p; 07:44
p6eval rakudo 71d884: OUTPUT«1␤0␤»
bkeeler Well, g'night...
lue goodnight. I ought to go to.
vamped lue: so why the failure with <= implementation? 07:45
Trashlord bye
07:45 gfx left
lue do you mean ≤, vamped? 07:46
vamped yup 07:47
(couldn't find the right key combo just now)
lue It's not part of the spec, and deemed unnecessary during the discussion :( . Ah well, it'll appear in my augmentation module, when it's made.
It'll be made for Rakudo *, probably :)
vamped oh, so there was a discussion. that'll do it. 07:48
it should be very easy to implement for yourself
lue It is, it's stupidly easy (lets see if I remember) 07:49
rakudo: multi sub infix :<≤> (my $a, my $b) { $a <=$b}; say 5≤6;
p6eval rakudo 71d884: OUTPUT«Method 'panic' not found for invocant of class 'Regex;Match'␤current instr.: 'perl6;Perl6;Actions;trait' pc 187361 (src/gen/perl6-actions.pir:7153)␤»
lue rakudo: multi sub infix :<≤>(my $a, my $b) { $a <=$b}; say 5≤6;
p6eval rakudo 71d884: OUTPUT«Method 'panic' not found for invocant of class 'Regex;Match'␤current instr.: 'perl6;Perl6;Actions;trait' pc 187361 (src/gen/perl6-actions.pir:7153)␤»
lue rakudo: multi sub :infix <≤>(my $a, my $b) { $a <=$b}; say 5≤6; 07:50
p6eval rakudo 71d884: OUTPUT«Method 'panic' not found for invocant of class 'Regex;Match'␤current instr.: 'perl6;Perl6;Actions;trait' pc 187361 (src/gen/perl6-actions.pir:7153)␤»
lue see, I can't remember. Something along those lines, though.
vamped rakudo: multi sub infix:<≤> (my $a, my $b) { $a <=$b}; say 5≤6;
p6eval rakudo 71d884: OUTPUT«Invalid typename in parameter declaration at line 11, near " $a, my $b"␤current instr.: 'perl6;HLL;Grammar;panic' pc 500 (ext/nqp-rx/src/stage0/HLL-s0.pir:328)␤»
lue rakudo: multi sub infix:<≤> ($a, $b) { $a <=$b}; say 5≤6; 07:51
p6eval rakudo 71d884: OUTPUT«Confused at line 11, near "say 5\u22646;"␤current instr.: 'perl6;HLL;Grammar;panic' pc 500 (ext/nqp-rx/src/stage0/HLL-s0.pir:328)␤»
lue darn.
rakudo: multi sub infix:<≤> (my $a, $b) { $a <=$b}; say 5≤6; 07:52
p6eval rakudo 71d884: OUTPUT«Invalid typename in parameter declaration at line 11, near " $a, $b) {"␤current instr.: 'perl6;HLL;Grammar;panic' pc 500 (ext/nqp-rx/src/stage0/HLL-s0.pir:328)␤»
lue ah well, I'll look it up tomorrow.
Goodnight, Moon.
07:52 lue left, pnate joined
vamped rakudo: multi sub infix:<≤> (){ $^a <= $^b}; say 5≤6; 07:52
p6eval rakudo 71d884: OUTPUT«Placeholder variable cannot override existing signature at line 11, near "; say 5\u22646;"␤current instr.: 'perl6;HLL;Grammar;panic' pc 500 (ext/nqp-rx/src/stage0/HLL-s0.pir:328)␤»
vamped well, it should be easy.
alpha: multi sub infix:<≤> { $^a <= $^b}; say 5≤6; 07:57
p6eval alpha 30e0ed: OUTPUT«1␤»
vamped bang! 07:58
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pugs_svn r29788 | azawawi++ | Upgrade to jQuery 1.4.2 (for more performance) 08:24
08:26 Su-Shee joined
vamped Guten Morgen Su-Shee. 08:28
08:29 iblechbot joined
vamped now very quiet this time of (day|night) 08:34
08:35 vamped left
Su-Shee early weekend morning :) 08:35
09:09 Jedai joined 09:20 payload joined 09:22 athenot joined 09:44 pnate left 09:46 mssm joined 09:49 pnate joined
pugs_svn r29789 | mberends++ | [src/perl6] README updates 09:52
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k23z__ hey look, PURAMU is a social media manager from Arizona and he says in his article that Perl is dead it.toolbox.com/blogs/puramu/perl-is-dead-12264 10:36
spinclad that's all right. anyone who knows anything about it will pay no attention. 10:39
spinclad -> bed & 10:42
snarkyboojum that article is over 3 years old 10:48
i.e. dead :)
Su-Shee we could start to act the slackware-way: completely ignore what other people say and just do our thing[tm]. :) 10:50
k23z__ cock 10:58
11:01 pmurias left 11:31 jferrero joined 11:45 payload left
BinGOs the 'perl is dead' meme is dead. 11:47
11:51 masak joined
masak happy weekend, everybody! 11:51
masak backlogs
masak submits diakopter's rakudobug 11:52
sorry about the delay :P
rakudo: {}.=() 11:54
p6eval rakudo 71d884: OUTPUT«src/hash.c:144: failed assertion 's'␤Backtrace - Obtained 17 stack frames (max trace depth is 32).␤/home/p6eval//p2/lib/libparrot.so.2.1.0 [0x2ae536445173]␤/home/p6eval//p2/lib/libparrot.so.2.1.0(Parrot_confess+0x87) [0x2ae5364452a7]␤/home/p6eval//p2/lib/libparrot.so.2.1.0
..[0x2ae53…
masak rakudo: say {}.WHAT 11:55
p6eval rakudo 71d884: OUTPUT«Hash()␤»
colomon o/ 11:59
masak \o 12:00
k23z__ hey I think I have a dog 12:01
masak k23z__: is that good news or bad news?
12:01 Trashlord left
k23z__ masak: not sure yet 12:01
masak k23z__: awww, can you keep it? it followed you home? 12:02
k23z__: is it an S12 Dog?
class Dog is Mammal does Pet {...}
my $pet = Dog.new( :name<Fido>, Animal{ :blood<warm>, :legs(4) } );
k23z__ S12 is some spec of p6 ? 12:03
omg !
so nice
so cute
masak k23z__: yep. some spec.
k23z__: wait, are you talking about S12 or the dog? :)
k23z__ both
they are so cute
masak nod.
well, I haven't seen your dog... 12:04
k23z__ it's called rubik
it lives in a closed subversion at the moment
but it will get out when it's bigger
masak k23z__: you should think about changing your nick. my Bayesian reasoning engine tells me that IRC users with a nick like yours won't be long-lived here on #perl6. 12:05
k23z__: no offense. it just looks like a throwaway nick. :)
k23z__ it is
masak k23z__: to blend in, you should name yourself 'continuation' or 'syntax' or something. 12:06
or 'dog6'.
k23z__ masak: I see, and your nickname will soon be part of the keywords of Perl6 no ?
something like
masak { ... } moritz { ... }; 12:07
masak k23z__: I've always wanted to be a listop taking a block.
apparently I also take a moritz... o.O
no wait, that's two terms in a row! 12:09
you need a comma after the first block. or a semicolon, if they're two different statements.
colomon I think "masak" should be some sort of exception handler that detects Null PMCs and e-mails them to RT. 12:11
k23z__ yeah
something like
try { ... } masak ( ... ) {...}
colomon masak: Have you gotten your E03 code working yet? 12:12
masak ah, a bit like an 'else' on if statements.
colomon: no. haven't tried. I might after doing a bit of $OTHER_STUFF today.
rakudo: sub frac() { return 2/3 }; my ((:$numerator, :$denominator)) := frac(); say "$numerator, $denominator"; 12:16
p6eval rakudo 71d884: OUTPUT«2, 3␤»
masak \o/
jnthn++
colomon that is some crazy stuff he has done there.... 12:17
masak almost every feature of Perl 6 is an overcharged nuclear powerpack in sheep's clothing. :) 12:18
k23z__ oh my god 12:21
what the
is that ?
masak it's a list assignment to a nested capture with named arguments, on a call to a native type which is a class with two public attributes. 12:22
see use.perl.org/~JonathanWorthington/journal/40196
jnthn++
s/call to/call returning/
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k23z__ is p6 still self-hosting or that went away with pugs ? 12:40
masak being self-hosting is still a long-term goal of Perl 6 and its implementations.
Pugs was actually written in Haskell, not Perl 6.
so far with Rakudo, the grammar parts are written in nqp-rx, a self-hosting subset of Perl 6. much of the CORE namespace subs and classes are written in Perl 6. 12:41
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masak what to do about spam accounts on use.perl.org? use.perl.org/~Jerry+Panter/journal/40199 13:07
k23z__ do you guys use formal methods ?
or software verification ? 13:08
I mean you write this compiler
how do you know it works properly
and what do Haskell people mean by "our compiler can prove stuff"
what do they mean by "prove" ?
we have a prove utilitary in Perl also but it's not the same
masak k23z__: very interesting questions, not all of which are on topic here. :)
k23z__ also what is a theorem prover and what is its relations to this ?
masak k23z__: the closest thing we have here in Perl 6 land is spectests. 13:09
jnthn oh hai
masak k23z__: those are tests outlining expected behaviour, which can be run semi-automatically.
jnthn: \o
k23z__ o/
masak jnthn: great blog post yesterday! I like nested signatures. :)
jnthn masak: I'm waiting for somebody to write something Totally Awesome with them. :-) 13:10
masak that would be Totally Awesome. 13:11
hm, seems for loops are not yet lazy... 13:13
jnthn masak: From above, "it's a list assignment" - no, it's not an assignment. It's a binding. :-) 13:14
masak oh right.
jnthn The := is what makes it special.
masak can the same be done with an assignemnt? I guess not. 13:15
k23z__ do you guys have like degrees in compiler design or something ?
jnthn No
k23z__ but ?
jnthn k23z__: Degree in computer scinece for me.
k23z__ masak: ?
masak k23z__: no degree here. just generally annoying. 13:16
jnthn k23z__: Though my degree let you pick and choose courses in the last year, and by then I'd got interested in compilers/VMs/programming langauges so picked a few related to that.
masak I'm at uni, though. about to get a bioinformatics degree.
jnthn Compilers aren't that crazy. They're just programs that take some input (source code) and spit out some lower level thing. :-) 13:17
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jnthn masak: Also, afaik, for loops are not yet lazy, no. 13:18
masak what's holding that up? 13:19
jnthn Somebody getting around to doing it, mostly.
Maybe sink context, but again, same thing.
masak oki. 13:20
so nothing known-to-be-hard, in other words.
jnthn Oh, I don't think there X nasty problem blocking it, no. 13:22
There's just an awful lotta stuff to do. :)
masak downforeveryoneorjustme.com/rakudo.org # was it something we said? did this release bring the server down? 13:27
13:28 frettled sets mode: +o masak
masak thanks. 13:28
jnthn masak: Did you...start procrastinating...yet? 13:38
masak jnthn: not as such. I think I have a plan of attack now, though. 13:39
jnthn :-)
masak and I plan to spend some time today finishing up GGE.
jnthn I've got one extra talk at nlpw that I need to procrastinate.
masak cool.
jnthn Finishing GGE? :-)
masak yes, GGE is almost PGE-compliant now. 13:40
jnthn Wow!
masak it lacks lookarounds and goals, but otherwise it's as powerful.
I've learned loads in the past few months.
I also have a blog post series in 7 parts coming up about PGE internals.
jnthn Wow.
jnthn looks forward to that. 13:41
masak me too :)
a bit like Perl 6 itself, I'm literally inventing new infrastructure so that the blog post series will be according to my expectations.
13:42 payload left
jnthn ponders if submitting a 15 minute talk on meta-models was really a sane idea, and if he should tweak it to 30, given the schedule ain't been done yet. 13:42
heh, you can't change duration in act 13:43
Ah, I'll take "sane meta-model talk in 15 mins" as an interesting challenge. :-) 13:44
masak jnthn: I think one can sometimes submit one's talk with a given duration. but I remember that this wasn't possible with the hack2010dk instance. 13:48
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jnthn masak: You could choose at point of submission, just not tweak later. :-) But it's fine. :-) 13:50
masak hm, maybe I remember wrongly. ISTR I looked for the duration option, but didn't find it. 13:51
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jnthn masak: WE may be talking about different workshops. :-) 13:52
Oh, yes, we are. :-)
D'oh. 13:53
masak that's why I wrote the name of the hack2010dk instance :P
jnthn Yeah, I just noticed that. :-)
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diakopter rakudo: say ({{4}}.()).WHAT 14:05
p6eval rakudo 71d884: OUTPUT«Int()␤»
masak looks right to me. 14:06
diakopter rakudo: say ({4}()).WHAT
p6eval rakudo 71d884: OUTPUT«Int()␤»
masak hm, I need to head home to make a bit of food. I might stop by later in the evening. o/
14:06 masak left
diakopter rakudo: say ({return {4}}()).WHAT 14:07
p6eval rakudo 71d884: OUTPUT«No exception handler and no message␤current instr.: '_block44' pc 320 (EVAL_1:127)␤»
diakopter I dunno... I don't get it. 14:08
jnthn oh, that's just a LTA version of "you did return when you weren't in a routine" or some such.
diakopter why wasn't it in a routine? 14:09
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jnthn ... 14:09
Because you didn't write one?
diakopter rakudo: say ((sub {return {4}})()).WHAT
p6eval rakudo 71d884: OUTPUT«Block()␤»
diakopter rakudo: say ((sub {return {4}})).WHAT 14:10
p6eval rakudo 71d884: OUTPUT«Sub()␤»
diakopter hm
rakudo: say ((sub {return {4}})()()).WHAT
p6eval rakudo 71d884: OUTPUT«Int()␤»
jnthn I think we had a decent error in alpha, but probably lost it in the refactors. 14:11
alpha: return 'lol'
diakopter rakudo: say ({return {4}}).WHAT
p6eval alpha 30e0ed: OUTPUT«Can't return outside a routine␤in Main (file <unknown>, line <unknown>)␤»
rakudo 71d884: OUTPUT«Block()␤»
jnthn You never invoke the block there :-)
14:12 ruoso joined
diakopter rakudo: (sub { say ({return {4}}).WHAT })() 14:12
p6eval rakudo 71d884: OUTPUT«Block()␤»
diakopter rakudo: (sub { say ({return {4}}()).WHAT })()
p6eval rakudo 71d884: ( no output )
diakopter rakudo: (sub { say ({return {4}}()).WHAT })()() 14:13
p6eval rakudo 71d884: ( no output )
diakopter erm
rakudo: say (sub { say ({return {4}}()).WHAT })()() 14:14
p6eval rakudo 71d884: OUTPUT«4␤»
diakopter o
weird
Blocks are ... a distinction. 14:15
jnthn return exceptions aren't caught by blocks, but are by routines. 14:16
diakopter I remember that, now
jnthn The bit we _are_ getting wrong is that we're meant to first look for an exception handler in the static chain, whereas we always shoot for the dynamic one at the moment. 14:17
diakopter no one's replied to my src/hash.c failed assertion email to parrot-dev 14:18
colomon jnthn: Do you have any thoughts on how to fix the "our @a;" bug in classes? (That being the bug where trying to use them fails consistently.) pmichaud seemed to think it was your bailiwick.... 14:26
jnthn lol... 14:27
...I thought he might know better. Gah. :-)
colomon: I have a guess, anyway.
colomon: Alas, I'm heading off to Vienna shortly, so can't look at it right now. 14:28
colomon d'oh!
jnthn colomon: One interesting test.
colomon: Is there the same problem with subs or just methods? 14:29
If just methods, that probably narrows it down a lot.
colomon using the our variable from a class sub, you mean?
jnthn yeah
colomon hmmm.
rakudo: class A { our @a; method B() { @a.push(1); @a.perl.say; }; }; my $a = A.new; $a.B; 14:30
p6eval rakudo 71d884: OUTPUT«Null PMC access in find_method('push')␤current instr.: 'perl6;A;B' pc 530 (EVAL_1:216)␤»
colomon rakudo: class A { our @a; sub B() { @a.push(1); @a.perl.say; }; }; my $a = A.new; $a.B;
p6eval rakudo 71d884: OUTPUT«Method 'B' not found for invocant of class 'A'␤current instr.: '_block14' pc 29 (EVAL_1:0)␤»
colomon rakudo: class A { our @a; sub B() { @a.push(1); @a.perl.say; }; method C() { B(); }; }; my $a = A.new; $a.C; 14:31
p6eval rakudo 71d884: OUTPUT«[1]␤»
14:31 JimmyZ joined
colomon there you go. 14:31
jnthn Right.
I think we're getting the static chain for methods wrong.
(they're attaching to the wrong lexical scopes) 14:32
I'm not immediately sure of the best fix.
Though I've a good idea why.
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pmichaud are the Parrot subs being cloned at any point? 14:41
(the ones being attached to the Method objects?)
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colomon rakudo: class A { our @a = 4,3,2; sub B() { @a.push(1); @a.perl.say; }; method C() { B(); }; }; my $a = A.new; $a.C; 14:41
p6eval rakudo 71d884: OUTPUT«[4, 3, 2, 1]␤»
pmichaud (good morning, #perl6)
colomon o/
jnthn pmichaud: We have a class setup block, which makes the meta-method calls, and then the class body 14:44
pmichaud: What we're emitting:
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jnthn BEGIN { ...ClassHOW.new... $obj.^add_method('foo', method { ... }) ... }; { ...class body... } 14:45
What we want:
BEGIN { ...ClassHOW.new... $obj.^add_method('foo', <reference to the meth>) ... }; { method foo() { ... }; ...class body... }
pmichaud: The ref should be by sub ID I guess. I'm not sure how that's meant to look. 14:46
pmichaud in 14:51
14:44 <jnthn> BEGIN { ...ClassHOW.new... $obj.^add_method('foo', method { ... }) ... }; { ...class body... }
is there any cloning taking place to the method { ... } portion? (There's not really a difference to <reference to the meth>)
jnthn pmichaud: For a class, no. 14:53
For a role, I think the metarole clones it.
pmichaud okay. I'll look at it closely in just a bit.
jnthn Well, I think the problem is that in the PAST tree, the PAST::Block for the method is not within the PAST::Block that is the class body. 14:54
So it's :outer points to the wrong place.
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pmurias k23z__: re how do we know that the compiler works correctly, Perl 6 has a test suit (it lives in t/spec in the pugs repository) 14:59
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pmichaud jnthn: yes, that would be the problem. 14:59
that's fixable.
colomon \o/ 15:00
pmichaud we can either do a reference to the PAST::Block (in the class body) -- this is exactly what you said above (now that I understand it)
k23z__ yes but tests are not sufficient as Haskell people say , they told me this because I told them I was writing tests in Perl5 15:01
pmichaud or perhaps we need an :outer attribute on PAST::Block where one can explicitly set the outer
k23z__ I don't know what they mean by "prove" , they say it has something to do with type theory
jnthn pmichaud: ooh...:outer setting would be The Cool. 15:02
I don't dislike that.
pmichaud yes, I just need an hour or so to decide if it's a good idea or design smell :)
anyway, now that you've described the problem, I can fix it
jnthn k23z__: There's a school of thought that says that the only way to be sure is to use mathematics to make formal proofs about how the language will behave in every case. 15:03
That approach doesn't tend to lead to programming languages thare are of huge amounts of interest to people writing real software though. 15:04
pmichaud jnthn says it correctly
jnthn There's something of a disconnect between the academic programming langauge scene and the languages that are being used to write most of the world's software. Which is in a way kinda sad.
k23z__ and how is Perl6 not an academic project ? 15:05
pmichaud k23z__: depends on what you mean by "academic project" :)
jnthn ooh...time to go for my train to Vienna! 15:06
pmichaud jnthn: have fun!
jnthn Thanks...catch you all later. 15:07
o/
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pugs_svn r29790 | lwall++ | [S03] cleanups suggested by nick++ 15:35
r29791 | lwall++ | [S03] thinko spotted by TheDamian++ 15:36
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PlotDevice Huh, if you click on this channel's link from the perl6 front page, hydrairc bugs out and sends you to #%23perl6 instead. 15:40
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Brennus hey all 15:45
TimToady I'm not all, but hey back :)
Brennus pardon me for a stupid question, but how long do you think it will be?
TimToady 'bout 3.2 meters
point being, you haven't specified your unit 15:46
Brennus that's quick for a flea but not for an amoeba
TimToady just so
we mostly deal in fractions of a century here
Brennus so christmas 2015 maybe?
TimToady oh, if Tolkien is any indication, 2014 15:47
but the parts that are already written are fun to read
Brennus i'm doing it
don't understand Tolkien ref 15:48
TimToady he took 14 years to do his big sequel
Brennus oh
i remember now
TimToady rakudo: say (if $_ { 'fred' } else { 'bill' }) for 0..1 15:49
p6eval rakudo 71d884: OUTPUT«Missing block at line 11, near ""␤current instr.: 'perl6;HLL;Grammar;panic' pc 500 (ext/nqp-rx/src/stage0/HLL-s0.pir:328)␤»
TimToady alpha: say (if $_ { 'fred' } else { 'bill' }) for 0..1
p6eval alpha 30e0ed: OUTPUT«bill␤fred␤»
TimToady but we hope to have a usable Rakudo * out this spring 15:50
Brennus cool
TimToady if not full-blown Perl 6
Brennus anything i can do? 15:51
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TimToady note inconsistencies or missing bits of the specs 15:51
write tests
write docs
just write something in Perl 6 and see what breaks, and report that 15:52
or if something doesn't feel right
Brennus yeah
15:52 hudnix left
TimToady watching how people do the learning curve is useful to us 15:53
if you're willing to report your difficulties
(other than that aren't really any good tutorials yet)
that's a known problem 15:54
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Brennus I was reading one of your advent pieces 15:54
it was confusing not seeing the "<<" and ">>" operators written out
not written out i mean
TimToady well, the "Texas" versions are a concession to people who haven't figured out their compose key yet, or ^K in vim 15:55
but the little ones are generally construed as more readable
Brennus not on my browser
maybe my eyes are going 15:56
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TimToady you can always increase the font size, like most of us do as we get older :) 15:56
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TimToady if you can't make out a «», then you're gonna have worse difficulties telling apart , and . 15:57
or ; and :
or maybe it's a font issue
Brennus not really
font probably
TimToady maybe your brain is hardwired for ASCII :)
Brennus the default firefox font made them absurdly tiny 15:58
TimToady maybe it's the size choice for constant width
Brennus anyway why not just write them out since that's what the code is going to be anyway? 15:59
TimToady because it's ugly
Brennus make it tough to cut & paste
TimToady not for most of us
dalek kudo/master: 8003298 | pmichaud++ | docs/spectest-progress.csv:
spectest-progress.csv update: 195 files, 24223 (67.8% of 35730) pass, 0 fail
 16:00
TimToady if you set up your UTF-8 locale okay
what kind of box are you running?
Brennus OSX 10.4 ibook g4
16:01 athenot left
TimToady we have some OSX experts around here, but I'm not one of 'em 16:01
but seems to me it should be Unicode-awarable, at least
Brennus i have a gentoo toshiba laptop that i develop on also
TimToady linux has little problem with UTF-8 locales
Brennus i've noticed 16:02
TimToady and certainly firefox seems to deal with unicode fine
anyway, eventually everything will be unicode-ish, but that's why we have << and >> too
but especially in quoting things with < and >, you want something else 16:03
Brennus anyone have experience with camelbones?
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TimToady circumfix:«< >» and such 16:03
well, I suppose someone does, but it ain't me... 16:04
colomon TimToady: did you really mean, for $n == 0, 1 ... $n; # (), .succ increasing ?
Brennus thanks for the UTF-8 info 16:05
colomon or am I getting confused because I am looking at the diffs instead of the entire doc? 16:06
(ah, I see the next diff deleted that line.) 16:13
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Brennus the rakudo.org server isn't responding 16:14
any mirror sites? 16:15
JimmyZ there are two 2010-02-18 in spectest-progress.csv
colomon good point. 16:17
Brennus use sv?
svn rather 16:18
colomon JimmyZ: fixed. 16:19
JimmyZ++ 16:20
lue \o/ 16:21
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dalek kudo/master: ec47f33 | (Solomon Foster)++ | docs/spectest-progress.csv:
Delete duplicate line for 2010-02-18.
 16:23
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lue rakudo: say (True and !True)~~True; say (True and False)~~True; # indirect way of seeing if !True == False 16:24
p6eval rakudo 800329: OUTPUT«1␤1␤»
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lue rakudo: my $chr=True|False; say $chr ~~ True; 16:48
p6eval rakudo ec47f3: OUTPUT«1␤»
lue rakudo: my $chr=True&False; say $chr ~~ True;
p6eval rakudo ec47f3: OUTPUT«1␤»
TimToady rakudo: my Any $chr = True & False; 16:49
p6eval rakudo ec47f3: OUTPUT«Type check failed for assignment␤current instr.: '&die' pc 16524 (src/builtins/Junction.pir:317)␤»
TimToady rakudo: my Mu $chr = True & False;
p6eval rakudo ec47f3: ( no output )
lue rkaudo: my $p=(True and !True); my $q=True|False; say ($p or $q); 16:50
rakudo: my $p=(True and !True); my $q=True|False; say ($p or $q);
p6eval rakudo ec47f3: ( no output )
TimToady rakudo: multi infix:<≤> { $^a <= $^b}; say 5 ≤ 6; 16:51
p6eval rakudo ec47f3: OUTPUT«Confused at line 11, near "say 5 \u2264 6;"␤current instr.: 'perl6;HLL;Grammar;panic' pc 500 (ext/nqp-rx/src/stage0/HLL-s0.pir:328)␤»
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lue rakudo: my $p=(True and !True); my $q=True|False; say ($p or True); 16:53
p6eval rakudo ec47f3: OUTPUT«1␤»
lue rakudo: my $p=(True and !True); my $q=True|False; say ($p xor $q);
p6eval rakudo ec47f3: ( no output )
lue maybe it should give us something? 16:54
lue goes to check the spec 16:55
TimToady rakudo: my $p=(True and !True); my $q=True|False; say $p ?^ $q 16:56
p6eval rakudo ec47f3: ( no output )
TimToady alpha: my $p=(True and !True); my $q=True|False; say $p ?^ $q 16:57
p6eval alpha 30e0ed: OUTPUT«maximum recursion depth exceeded␤in Main (file <unknown>, line <unknown>)␤»
TimToady alpha: my $p=(True and !True); my $q=True|False; say $p ^^ $q
p6eval alpha 30e0ed: OUTPUT«any(Bool::True, Bool::False)␤»
TimToady rakudo: my $p=(True and !True); my $q=True|False; say $p ^^ $q
p6eval rakudo ec47f3: ( no output )
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lue Ah, that should be fixed. 17:04
17:05 jferrero left 17:07 explorer__ left 17:11 rv2733 left
lue I wonder wherein the problem lies... 17:11
17:12 jferrero joined, Chillance joined
lue ...hello? 17:19
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lue If noone's here, I'll start typing in Esperanto to amuse myself! (You have been warned) 17:31
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TimToady 僕がいますよ！ 17:47
lue Bonvenon, TimToady!
frettled That was almost readable.
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lue could I take TAI as Unix Epoch? If so, is it UTC? 17:52
rakudo: say time();
p6eval rakudo ec47f3: OUTPUT«1266687562.0852␤»
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lue darnit, I though I had someone for a minute... 17:55
lue will go on to assume his questions about TAI are true, since no-one will answer... :( 17:56
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pmurias www.rakudo.org doesn't seem to load for me 17:58
lue I read earlier it was down... wonder what's happening
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lue rakudo: say floor(7.6); 18:00
p6eval rakudo ec47f3: OUTPUT«7␤»
pmurias from where can i checkout rakudo? 18:01
lue hang on...
pmurias it seems to be on github 18:02
lichtkind is samuel harington here?
lue here's the command: git clone git://github.com/rakudo/rakudo.git
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lue rakudo: say 794243384928000/9192631770 18:12
p6eval rakudo ec47f3: OUTPUT«No applicable candidates found to dispatch to for 'infix:<div>'␤current instr.: 'perl6;Rat;new' pc 304713 (src/gen/core.pir:32856)␤» 18:13
lue woah.
alpha: say 794243384928000/9192631770
p6eval alpha 30e0ed: OUTPUT«No applicable candidates found to dispatch to for 'infix:div'␤in Main (file <unknown>, line <unknown>)␤»
lue Are you really saying no-one's bothered to implement division?
pugs: say 794243384928000/9192631770
p6eval pugs: OUTPUT«86400␤»
lue thank you 18:14
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TimToady rakudo: say 794243384928000/9192631770.nude>>.WHAT 18:18
p6eval rakudo ec47f3: OUTPUT«No applicable candidates found to dispatch to for 'infix:<div>'␤current instr.: 'perl6;Rat;new' pc 304355 (src/gen/core.pir:32777)␤»
TimToady rakudo: say 794243384928000/9192631770.perl
p6eval rakudo ec47f3: OUTPUT«No applicable candidates found to dispatch to for 'infix:<div>'␤current instr.: 'perl6;Rat;new' pc 304355 (src/gen/core.pir:32777)␤»
TimToady rakudo: 794243384928000/9192631770
p6eval rakudo ec47f3: OUTPUT«No applicable candidates found to dispatch to for 'infix:<div>'␤current instr.: 'perl6;Rat;new' pc 304355 (src/gen/core.pir:32777)␤»
lue pugs: say 794243384928000/16; say 794243384928000/24;
p6eval pugs: OUTPUT«49640211558000␤33093474372000␤»
TimToady the basic problem is that 794243384928000 is likely too big for rakudo to make a Rat out of 18:19
since it doesn't do bignum Int yet
lue pugs: say 49640211558000/33093474372000
p6eval pugs: OUTPUT«1.5␤»
lue I'm looking at hextime, and trying verify the numbers.
TimToady rakudo: say 794243384928000.WHAT
p6eval rakudo ec47f3: OUTPUT«Int()␤»
TimToady say 794243384928000+1
rakudo say 794243384928000+1 18:20
rakudo: say 794243384928000+1
grr
p6eval rakudo ec47f3: OUTPUT«794243384928001␤»
lue pugs: say 33093474372000/49640211558000
p6eval pugs: OUTPUT«0.6666666666666666666666666666666666666667␤»
TimToady rakudo: say (794243384928000+1).WHAT
p6eval rakudo ec47f3: OUTPUT«Num()␤»
TimToady see, it's complaining that it can't find Num div Int
because it's faking bigints with Num 18:21
lue ah. Someone should fix that (Python can handle unlimited length integers, no problem...)
TimToady well, it's specced to work right 18:22
and pugs still does better in that particular regard
lue rakudo: say time()/86400 18:23
p6eval rakudo ec47f3: OUTPUT«14660.7570671122␤»
TimToady rakudo: say time.WHAT
p6eval rakudo ec47f3: OUTPUT«Num()␤»
TimToady that's also not according to spec
lue Is Num a sort of failsafe thing, or is there something special as opposed to Int and Float 18:24
TimToady Num is float, basically 18:26
lue ah. 18:27
TimToady though now that I glare at it, it appears someone took the types off of the definition of time(), grr 18:28
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lue Wondering: for the calendar-related commands, could they theoretically include any calendar? 18:29
TimToady oh, there it is, it returns an Instant, as it should 18:30
and Instant is supposed to be a FatRat, if it needs the precision 18:31
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TimToady or maybe internally it's a year's Int TAI seconds plus a Rat64 for offset within the year 18:32
lue If I looked up on how calendars are implemented, I'd be happy to spend my time implementing some (Julian, Hebrew, etc.) 18:34
pmurias S32-num/rand.t tests if srand(:seed(0)) is different from srand(:seed(1)), does the spec guarante that? 18:36
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lue rakudo: say 5.fmt('\x') 18:50
p6eval rakudo ec47f3: OUTPUT«Could not find non-existent sub &sprintf␤current instr.: 'perl6;Any;fmt' pc 275216 (src/gen/core.pir:22213)␤»
lue alpha: say 12.fmt('\x')
p6eval alpha 30e0ed: OUTPUT«\x␤»
lue alpha: say 12.fmt('{\x}') 18:51
p6eval alpha 30e0ed: OUTPUT«{\x}␤»
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lue alpha: say 12.fmt('{%x}') 18:51
p6eval alpha 30e0ed: OUTPUT«{c}␤»
lue there we go (sorta)
18:52 ggoebel joined
pugs_svn r29792 | lwall++ | [S02] bias Instant/Duration types away from Num and towards Rat/FatRat semantics 18:52
TimToady last one looks right to me 18:53
18:53 ggoebel left
lue yes, completely right. (don't know why I typed sorta) 18:53
TimToady hmm, thinking about 12.%x as an abbreviation 18:55
wouldn't interpolate though
lue YES PLEASE! (did I just shout?)
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TimToady $x.%x() seems odd 18:55
lue or something short than .fmt('%x'). It doesn't look nice. 18:56
maybe a hex($calar_here) command?
TimToady we want real printf formats
lue pretends to know of printf and its formats
ah, I see
maybe... $x.hex , which would just call $x.fmt('%x') . 18:58
TimToady rakudo: say 12.fmt('%04x')
p6eval rakudo ec47f3: OUTPUT«Could not find non-existent sub &sprintf␤current instr.: 'perl6;Any;fmt' pc 275216 (src/gen/core.pir:22213)␤»
TimToady alpha: say 12.fmt('%04x')
p6eval alpha 30e0ed: OUTPUT«000c␤»
lue see, rakudo doesn't run printf anyway right now :(
TimToady you almost always want leading 0's
lue is going to rewrite his hexclock code, because it fails... 19:00
pugs: say 794243384928000/4096; say 794243384928000/1440; 19:03
p6eval pugs: OUTPUT«193907076398.4375␤551557906200␤»
lue pugs: say 551557906200/193907076398.4375 19:04
p6eval pugs: OUTPUT«2.8444444444444444444444444444444444444444␤»
lue ooh, pretty numbers
19:05 payload left
lue pugs: say 794243384928000/65536; say 794243384928000/86400; 19:06
p6eval pugs: OUTPUT«12119192274.90234375␤9192631770␤»
lue pugs: say 9192631770/12119192274.90234375
p6eval pugs: OUTPUT«0.7585185185185185185185185185185185185185␤»
lue hooray! I've verified the numbers. Now, to do the math...
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lichtkind lue: hi 19:32
lue hello!
colomon o/ 19:34
lue o/
rakudo: my $y=2010; my $s=$y*365.25*24*60*60; say $s; 19:35
p6eval rakudo ec47f3: OUTPUT«63430776000␤»
lue rakudo: say 24*60*60*365.25 19:36
p6eval rakudo ec47f3: OUTPUT«31557600␤»
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lichtkind lue: dont like secrecy? :) 19:44
lue nah, just didn't see much need for private chat anymore. 19:45
lichtkind lue: you just didn't know what big secrets you would get told if you didn't close that winow :) 19:47
19:47 justatheory left
lue Noooo! Please, please, open it again! I won't close it this time! PLEASE!!! 19:47
lichtkind hahaha :) 19:49
lue PPPPPPPP
LLLLLLLLL
EEEEEEEEE
AAAAAAAAA
SSSSSSSSs
EEEEEEEE
lichtkind lue: its allright, life does never cheat on you :) 19:50
lue: what your interested in? 19:51
lue I'm using it
lichtkind lue: what you are using?
lue PowerBook G3 Pismo, circa before 2000, running Fedora Linux 12
rakudo: say DateTime(); 19:54
p6eval rakudo ec47f3: OUTPUT«Could not find non-existent sub &DateTime␤current instr.: '_block14' pc 29 (EVAL_1:0)␤»
lue rakudo: say datetime(); 19:55
p6eval rakudo ec47f3: OUTPUT«Could not find non-existent sub &datetime␤current instr.: '_block14' pc 29 (EVAL_1:0)␤»
lichtkind lue: i mean in what part of perl 6 are you interested in :)
lue rakudo: say calendartime(time());
p6eval rakudo ec47f3: OUTPUT«Could not find non-existent sub &calendartime␤current instr.: '_block14' pc 29 (EVAL_1:0)␤»
lue lichtkind: whatever I'm into atm. Right now it's time (if you can't tell) 19:56
it was at one point custom ranges, and then ≤ to mean <= and so on
alpha: say calendartime(time()); 19:57
p6eval alpha 30e0ed: OUTPUT«Could not find non-existent sub calendartime␤in Main (file src/gen_setting.pm, line 324)␤»
lue pugs: say calendartime(time());
p6eval pugs: OUTPUT«*** No such subroutine: "&calendartime"␤ at /tmp/vDXiqreG0d line 1, column 5-25␤»
lue litchkind: yesterday it was superpositions and the Explosion Principle. 19:58
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lichtkind lue: please explain, you mean junctions? 20:00
lue yes. I prefer the term superpositions (to keep in line with quantum physics :) ). 20:01
superpositions – erm, junctions – are perfect for things like Schroedinger's Cat
litchkind: anything to do in the wiki? I'm looking, but can't seem to find anything needing to be done... 20:03
std: say datetime() 20:07
p6eval std 29792: OUTPUT«Undeclared routine:␤ 'datetime' used at line 1␤ok 00:01 107m␤»
lue std: say Temporal.datetime()
p6eval std 29792: OUTPUT«Undeclared name:␤ 'Temporal' used at line 1␤ok 00:01 105m␤»
TimToady STD refuses to believe in Temporal:: 20:08
lue anywhere I can get a readout that's NOT the Unix Epoch – erm, TAI
TimToady readout? 20:09
the problem seems underspecified...
lue ex. June 7th, 2009 12:30:23 instead of 1266582374.34829
TimToady hmm
alpha: say localtime() 20:10
p6eval alpha 30e0ed: OUTPUT«Could not find non-existent sub localtime␤in Main (file src/gen_setting.pm, line 324)␤»
lue theoretically, it's possible to derive it from the epoch, but that's bloody difficult to figure out.
(considering you have 5 unknown variables)
lichtkind TimToady: we currently revamp the perl 6 wiki, would you please tell me in your own words what STD.pm is?
TimToady the Standard Perl 6 grammar 20:11
it's more or less part of the specs
lichtkind TimToady: can it be called a parser? 20:13
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lue (looks like I found something in Rakudo to work on: time) 20:15
lue is gonna use sed to try and find where time is... 20:17
TimToady yes, it can be used as a parser when translated gimme5 20:18
that's what std: is running
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lichtkind TimToady: thank you , can there be said more about this or is there some document you can refer to? 20:22
lue bleh. Not so much as a Temporal.pir anywhere. Obviously, no one gave two shakes about time.
PerlJam lue: src/setting/Temporal.pm 20:27
(from alpha)
It's just not brought into master yet 20:28
lue there is no setting folder in master.
alpha: say datetime()
p6eval alpha 30e0ed: OUTPUT«Could not find non-existent sub datetime␤in Main (file src/gen_setting.pm, line 324)␤»
lue alpha: say DateTime()
p6eval alpha 30e0ed: OUTPUT«Could not find non-existent sub DateTime␤in Main (file src/gen_setting.pm, line 324)␤»
lue Bleh. It should all be reimplemented anyway. 20:30
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lichtkind TimToady: hope you dont mind www.perlfoundation.org/perl6/index....larry_wall 20:36
lue rakudo: say time; 20:37
p6eval rakudo ec47f3: OUTPUT«1266697483.99857␤»
lue where is time defined in master? hm 20:38
colomon lue: you need to get a program called ack. 20:40
Then you can cd to the src directory and say ack -w time and get a list of every place the word time appears in the source code. 20:41
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lue sure it's not awk? :) 20:41
colomon It is absolutely sweet for this sort of thing, I use it a dozen or more times a day.
lue: I'm sure it's ack, because I mistype it awk once a day and it never works when I do that. :) 20:42
lue alright, will get it.
colomon Actually, now I mostly use it in a nice wrapper in a TextMate , but that won't help you in Linux.
PerlJam lue: cpan App::Ack # install it from CPAN 20:43
lisppaste3 colomon pasted "ack -w time" at paste.lisp.org/display/95326
PerlJam lue: apt-get install ack-grep # if you're on ubuntu
20:45 TSa joined
masak GGE now does lookarounds, and passes/todos 750 tests! 20:47
colomon \o/ 20:50
masak maybe I should focus on the named-regex/grammar functionality, next rather than goals.
with grammars, I can make GGE parse Perl 6 :)
TimToady lemme know when you can run STD :) 20:51
masak heh :)
lue ah, it's in old/settings/Temporal.pm 20:52
20:52 uniejo left
masak I implemented <after ...> in GGE, the way PGE does it. PGE does some really funky stuff there, even for PGE. 20:54
20:55 uniejo joined
masak to its credit, there's a big comment above that method saying "this is not the way it should really be done". :) 20:55
g'ah, SF++ already has a second version of the E03 code! lastofthecarelessmen.blogspot.com/2...-stab.html 20:56
lichtkind masak: when november runs you get your wiki page :) 20:57
TimToady: so the article seemd ok to you?
lue litchtkind: what could I do on the wiki?
eh, lichtkind 20:58
masak lichtkind: november doesn't run?
lichtkind masak: AFAIK the old save problem still lurks
masak oh, that. but the site is still running. good.
lichtkind masak: yes an wiki you cant edit :) 20:59
masak that bad? I thought it was only sometimes.
lichtkind masak: no anytime since weeks, or i wouldnt have switched now to tpf wiki for now :)
masak lichtkind: sorry about that. I wasn't aware it was that bad. 21:00
lue any suggestions on how to get Temporal up and running properly?
lichtkind masak: that was the reason for asskickin :)
masak lichtkind: you haven't found any volunteer developers for November, have you? :)
lichtkind masak: guess your right
masak: currently cleaning up the mess in the tpf wiki 21:01
lue: there is is plenty to do just grab a corner your interested in
lue rakudo: say iso8601
p6eval rakudo ec47f3: OUTPUT«Could not find non-existent sub &iso8601␤current instr.: '_block14' pc 29 (EVAL_1:0)␤»
lue rakudo: say time.iso8601
p6eval rakudo ec47f3: OUTPUT«Method 'iso8601' not found for invocant of class 'Num'␤current instr.: '_block14' pc 29 (EVAL_1:0)␤»
lue rakudo: say time().iso8601
p6eval rakudo ec47f3: OUTPUT«Method 'iso8601' not found for invocant of class 'Num'␤current instr.: '_block14' pc 29 (EVAL_1:0)␤»
lue bah! 21:02
masak that's a terrible method name. :/
lue lichtkind: OK, will look (although right now I'm focused on Temporal)
just look in src/old/settings/Temporal.pm
I'd like to put Temporal somewhere other than old/settings if and when I fix it, btw 21:03
colomon masak: I think SF had an advantage of already having a working (?) program, so easier to incorporate good ideas from you quickly. 21:07
masak colomon: aye. I'll remember that when we do E04 :) 21:12
lue It really isn't clear where the time used in master is defined (it doesn't seem to be old/settings/Temporal.pm) 21:13
rakudo: say Temporal.time 21:17
p6eval rakudo ec47f3: OUTPUT«Could not find non-existent sub &Temporal␤current instr.: '_block14' pc 29 (EVAL_1:0)␤»
lue rakudo: say Temporal::time
p6eval rakudo ec47f3: OUTPUT«Null PMC access in invoke()␤current instr.: '_block14' pc 29 (EVAL_1:0)␤»
lue rakudo: say Temporal::Time
p6eval rakudo ec47f3: OUTPUT«Null PMC access in invoke()␤current instr.: '_block14' pc 29 (EVAL_1:0)␤»
bkeeler src/builtins/control.pir:.sub '&time'
lue almost, not quite. Where is the time command defined is what I'm looking for. 21:18
bkeeler Not sure what you mean 21:19
...and good morning all, by the way :) 21:20
masak bkeeler: \o
bkeeler o/
spinclad o/
masak rakudo: say (True & False) ~~ True 21:22
lue o/
p6eval rakudo ec47f3: OUTPUT«1␤»
masak that can't be right.
lue it is
according to Explosion Principle
masak please explain.
lue rakudo: say (True and !True)
p6eval rakudo ec47f3: OUTPUT«0␤»
lue rakudo: say (True and !True) ~~ True
p6eval rakudo ec47f3: OUTPUT«1␤»
lue rakudo: say (True and !True) ~~ False
p6eval rakudo ec47f3: OUTPUT«0␤»
masak I'm still confused. 21:23
usually explainations help :)
lue let me get you a couple links...
spinclad lue: where time is defined: where bkeeler said
masak lue: I'm so glad you're here. I'm a bit new at this. :)
spinclad (admittedly it should go somewhere else...) 21:24
colomon rakudo: say (True & False).perl
p6eval rakudo ec47f3: OUTPUT«all(1, 0)␤»
lue masak: here's a webcomic explaining it in a nutshell: xkcd.com/704/ . Also search wikipedia for Explosion Principle
spinclad rakudo: say False ~~ True
masak lue: I see in the backlog that vi parolas Esperanton.
p6eval rakudo ec47f3: OUTPUT«1␤»
21:24 Chillance left
masak o.O 21:24
lue masak: not fluently
spinclad (which is Worng) 21:25
colomon alpha: say False ~~ True
p6eval alpha 30e0ed: OUTPUT«1␤»
lue pugs: say False ~~ True
p6eval pugs: OUTPUT«␤»
masak submits rakudobug
lue std: say False ~~ 42
p6eval std 29792: OUTPUT«ok 00:01 107m␤»
masak can't believe no-one caught this before.
bkeeler Bonvolu alsendi la pordiston? Lausajne estas rano en mia bideo!
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bkeeler That's the only Esperanto I know... 21:26
lue According to Explosion Principle, Perl6 is right :)
masak bkeeler: :)
spinclad Rano, ek!
bkeeler I like frogs
spinclad ekiru, mi diras!
masak bkeeler: that's "laŭŝajne", but otherwise fine.
lue rakudo: say (True && !True) ~~ True 21:27
p6eval rakudo ec47f3: OUTPUT«1␤»
lue (geez, I know almost no Esperanto. You make me feel bad :) )
masak lue: there's still time to learn before the Fina Venko! :P
bkeeler I heard the first frog of the year just yesterday in fact. In a few weeks my pond will be teeming with them, singing all evening 21:28
masak bkeeler: but not your bidet?
21:28 k23z__ joined
devinus i'm not trying to be a troll--i'm genuinely curious since i can't find anything recent through a google search--what are the current estimates for when perl 6 will be "ready" ? 21:28
bkeeler Preferably not, though if they took time to install a bidet first I guess I could make an exception
21:28 Brennus joined
lichtkind lue: what you mean by explosion? 21:28
lue √ that you know your explosion principle. Yesterday I used it to derive Obama's cell phone number. 21:29
See the xkcd.com comic I posted a link to for details: xkcd.com/704/
it's a "in a nutshell" explanation. Here's Wikipedia: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Principle_of_explosion 21:31
lichtkind devinus: whyt kind of ready you mean?
devinus lichtkind: as in, "HEY EVERYBODY! HERE'S PERL 6! We encourage you to use it in production environments" or at least an "official release" maybe blessed as such by larry wall or something.... 21:32
spinclad devinus: 'ready' for corporate use, with a firm standing by to be sued if it doesn't work? 21:33
colomon devinus: current goal is to have an "hey, we've got something cool here" release in April.
lue my best guess would be Rakudo *, released in April. There is no due date, really :D
lichtkind devinus: this march/april will come rakudo*
devinus that's awesome, yeah i read about star on wikipedia 21:34
lichtkind devinus: but there are not many modules here yet and its still slow and ram consuming
lue Rakudo Whatever — I mean Star — is to be released in April ( <-- that was a P6 pun)
masak devinus: the thing about the 'ready' you're talking about is that nobody knows for sure how long it'll be till that point, but it sure won't hurt to get people enthusiastic and involved in the effort.
lichtkind devinus: but its considerable stable
devinus: maybe not production ready :)
lue Bonvenon al Perl6, devinus!
devinus well that's great 21:35
lichtkind: i'm guessing the libjit work in parrot hasn't helped the slowness?
masak I'm sure some brave souls could use Rakudo in production.
lichtkind devinus: i dont know about that, but yes parrots gets slowly faster :) 21:36
bkeeler It's certainly a viable platform for experimenting and writing smallish programs in
lue I guess I'm a brave soul then :)
bkeeler I think it's going to be a while before people are writing the next facebook in it
masak but we'll try to be ready for that. 21:37
lichtkind lue: we all are :)
Su-Shee well for that is just a couple of modules missing and a little more speed. ;)
colomon a lot more speed... :)
bkeeler what colomon said
lue When Rakudo * comes out, we should all shout "Saluton mondo! Bonvenon al Perl6!" (please tell me I got that right) 21:38
masak lue: you got that right.
lue superluminal speed is our goal, actually. R* will be so good, it'll run at superluminal speeds even if your hardware can't run that fast!
colomon Mind you, we're making strides -- master is better than twice as faster as alpha at running the master test suite.
*fast 21:39
lue I motion to rename Master to Doctor (that way I won't get creeped when you say things like "The Master test suite")
masak lue: I motion you write some Perl 6 instead of squabbling over labels :) 21:40
bkeeler I'd like to spend some time with the Romana branch myself ;)
lue Romana? Not familiar (I don't want to use the Majora branch, ever *shudder*) 21:41
bkeeler She was one of Doctor Who's companions 21:43
img.photobucket.com/albums/v21/volk...--5h05.jpg
colomon I'm already using Rakudo for some light production work here. If it keeps doubling in speed every three months, it will be fine in a year or so....
masak lue, bkeeler: you're both pretty new here. how did you two get involved with Perl 6 and #perl6? if you don't mind me asking -- I'm interested. 21:44
bkeeler I've been lurking on the lists for ages
Su-Shee colomon: I just shoved aside some old code and modularized it so that I can do the first p6 module in production.
lue masak: I was programming an NES emulator in Python3, when I got tired of not having pointers and switch statements... 21:45
colomon Su-Shee: \o/
bkeeler And been a perl programmer in one form or another since....oh, '91 I think
lue masak: ...So I found Perl. I found Perl 5 a bit too different from most languages, hence Perl 6. The End.
masak lue: Perl doesn't have pointers either.
bkeeler I just got fed up of missing all the good chatter on #perl so I got off my ass and installed an IRC client this week
lue *cough* references
masak lue: and Perl 5 doesn't have switch statements :)
lue: I thought they were called references because they're safer than pointers. 21:46
bkeeler: but you're aware that this is #perl6, right? :P
bkeeler Yeah, typoed that heh
masak oh, ok.
bkeeler Been following the perl6 development since the apocalypse days 21:47
lue Whatever it is. I need to be able to point to the same number in the same byte of memory in two different spots in a list.
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lue ex. , @rray[0] and @rray[3] would both point to 0xDEADBEEF in memory. 21:48
masak bkeeler: oh! then you've probably been paying attention longer than I have.
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masak mberends: oh hai! GGE now does lookarounds! 21:48
spinclad \o/
bkeeler Limited attention. I've been paying more and more attention the closer rakudo gets 21:49
masak so have I, I guess.
but I was active-ish during the Pugs days, the Golden Age. :)
lue \o\ \o\ |o| Saluton, mberends! |o| /o/ /o/
bkeeler I could be approaching some sort of attention singularity when Rakudo * comes out, #perl6 could be wiped out my a supernova of my presence
colomon bkeeler: I got hooked when they told me that here-strings would get the indent level of their command. think it was around 2004 or so. 21:50
lue I was hooked at references and switch statements :)
masak bkeeler: I think we're willing to take the risk :)
bkeeler I think the big turning point for me was reading A05 and E05
colomon but after the initial thrill of pugs I didn't think much about p6 for a few years.
lue Hi, i'm lue, and I'm a P6 addict. On occasion I use R*
bkeeler It took me ages to get my jaw up off the floor 21:51
mberends Masak: wow! Just playing with IRC on new android phone :
masak funny how people got hooked by individual features. I think I got hooked by the project as such. I want to be a Perl 6 pioneer and use as much of the new language as I can. :)
mberends: oh, cool.
Su-Shee mberends: junkie. ;)
mberends Heh
lue feels glad he comes at the tail-end of P6 development, instead of starting at the beginning
PerlJam lue: why?
lue I didn't have to wait forever :D 21:52
masak lue: how do you know it's the tail-end? :P
bkeeler *grumble*grumble* want an android phone so bad *grumble*grumble* locked into Sprint contract for another 18 months *grumble*grumble*
PerlJam it's not the tail
lue I mean the coming of R*
mberends Gotta go, talk 2morrow
masak mberends: \o
PerlJam well, it is the tail, but it's a really long tail ;)
colomon o/
lue \o\ \o\ Goodbye, mberends /o/ /o/
masak lue: honestly, R* is mostly here already. it's basically alpha + laziness as far as I'm concerned. 21:53
hm, pmichaud and jnthn might disagree :)
bkeeler Yeah
lue yeah, good thing ng turned into the doctor branch, right?
bkeeler Grammars and s/.../.../ are what I'm really waiting on at this point
PerlJam masak: having protos is significant too
masak PerlJam: oh, the regexes? yeah. 21:54
PerlJam: but it hasn't reached the Rakudo user yet, only the implementors.
bkeeler My first try at using rakudo for $work was when I needed a parser for an oddball file format
Didn't work out with alpha when I tried it. Got bogged down with the larger parse input I fed it
Su-Shee I earned money with perl 6 in 2003. ;)
bkeeler I'll dust that code off when master gets grammars 21:55
colomon grammars are going to be awesome.
pretty much are awesome already.
PerlJam Su-Shee: you traded on its name?
bkeeler See if it works any better
lue you procured monetary goods for a paradigm of microcomputer programming? wow!
masak bkeeler: nopaste it here, and we'll help you optimize it :)
Su-Shee PerlJam: I wrote an article about it, sure the hype coming tomorrow. ;) 21:56
bkeeler I'll see if I can do that Monday when I go in
PerlJam should get more interested in writing articles for money
bkeeler Well, I guess I could VPN in
PerlJam more money is always good :)
bkeeler What the heck
lue I have ascertained that Su-Shee's paradigm is an excellent receiver of monetary goods :) 21:57
lue is using fancy words for comedic effect
Su-Shee PerlJam: I'm writing on and off about open source stuff since '97.
PerlJam lue: It's not working. ;)
21:57 uniejo left
lue The joke is that I look like a jerk :D 21:57
The comedic effect is that I am to be perceived as a neer-do-well 21:58
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lue rakudo: $p=True|False; say ($p and !$p) ~~ True; # you thought I confused you before :) 22:01
p6eval rakudo ec47f3: OUTPUT«Symbol '$p' not predeclared in <anonymous>␤current instr.: 'perl6;PCT;HLLCompiler;panic' pc 137 (compilers/pct/src/PCT/HLLCompiler.pir:101)␤»
lue rakudo: my $p=True|False; say ($p and !$p) ~~ True; # you thought I confused you before :)
p6eval rakudo ec47f3: OUTPUT«1␤»
masak lue: that one's different. :)
lue rakudo: my $p=True&False; say ($p and !$p) ~~ True; # you thought I confused you before :) 22:02
p6eval rakudo ec47f3: OUTPUT«1␤»
lue rakudo: my $p=True^False; say ($p and !$p) ~~ True; # you thought I confused you before :)
p6eval rakudo ec47f3: OUTPUT«1␤»
masak with junctions, all('bets', 'are', 'off');
Brennus excuse me, I'm confused by perl6advent.wordpress.com/2009/12/0...ng-rakudo/
lue \o/
masak Brennus: how can we help?
lue with junctions, any('thing', 'goes');
PerlJam Brennus: What OS are you on? Do you have both git and svn? 22:03
Brennus the 3rd code snippet says say [+] (1..999).grep( { $_ % 3 == 0 || $_ % 5 == 0 } );
masak yes?
rakudo: say [+] (1..999).grep( { $_ % 3 == 0 || $_ % 5 == 0 } );
p6eval rakudo ec47f3: OUTPUT«Confused at line 11, near "say [+] (1"␤current instr.: 'perl6;HLL;Grammar;panic' pc 500 (ext/nqp-rx/src/stage0/HLL-s0.pir:328)␤»
masak alpha: say [+] (1..999).grep( { $_ % 3 == 0 || $_ % 5 == 0 } ); 22:04
Brennus see?
masak Brennus: yes.
p6eval alpha 30e0ed: OUTPUT«233168␤»
masak Brennus: sorry about that. we just did a switch.
PerlJam Brennus: the "new and improved" rakudo still has a few things to bring over from alpha
masak Brennus: if you want all of the features in the Advent Calendar, you should go with the January release.
Brennus oh ok
masak Brennus: the release announcement says as much.
colomon and [+] is a prime example of what hasn't come over yet.
Brennus seems kinda major 22:05
colomon rakudo: say (1..999).grep( { $_ % 3 == 0 || $_ % 5 == 0 } ).reduce({$^a + $^b})
p6eval rakudo ec47f3: OUTPUT«233168␤»
lue /o\ my bwain huwts
masak Brennus: well, things have been taken apart completely, and they're not back together completely yet.
bkeeler There are a few major features missing, but there are also a few major new features that we're in the old release 22:06
masak Brennus: you're witnessing the exciting end of the biggest Rakudo refactor to date. :)
Brennus :)
colomon All the guts are there for the example, we just don't have the shortcut [+] for it.
bkeeler s/we're/weren't/
lue Or a decent Temporal
rakudo: say 1..* 22:07
Brennus that will be easy, right? it's just a rule
p6eval rakudo ec47f3: ( no output )
masak lue: did you take a look at the Temporal overhaul I almost finished?
lue what!? erm... no.
colomon Brennus: you mean [+]? We want a good general implementation, and the grammar for it is pretty tricky. Else I would have implemented it already. :) 22:08
lue what do you do when you're not here? We were discussing it for half the day today!
masak goes for links
lue: yes, I saw that.
Brennus ok thx
lue We also need to be able to divide things like:
22:09 justatheory joined
lue 12318243913517385139045318/1345834591243841 #this wouldn't work 22:09
masak lue: github.com/masak/temporal-flux-perl...mporal.pod
22:09 devinus left
lue \o/ 22:10
masak lue: it has a number of things I like. particularly very nice constructors. I also implemented most of them in a fork of Rakudo. never got to merging it, though :/
PerlJam masak: now is a good a time as any :) 22:11
masak yes.
been thinking about joining the fray at p6l. :)
colomon masak: Don't do it! Save yourself!
masak .oO( so many Perl 6 subprojects, so little time... )
Brennus rakudo: say 12318243913517385139045318/1345834591243841 #this wouldn't work 22:12
p6eval rakudo ec47f3: OUTPUT«No applicable candidates found to dispatch to for 'infix:<div>'␤current instr.: 'perl6;Rat;new' pc 304713 (src/gen/core.pir:32847)␤»
lue masak: merge your Temporal fix! Save the Doctor! DESTROY THE REALITY BOMB!!!
lue got carried away
masak lue: sure, but my laptop battery is running out...
lue no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no 22:13
I use: Principle of Explosion.
PerlJam colomon: how is the grammar for [+] any trickier in master from how it's implemented in alpha?
lue LUE uses Principle of Explosion to derive battery power.
LUE gives derived battery power to MASAK
bkeeler Don't use it masak 22:14
masak I kinda wish that would have worked.
bkeeler Could be dangerous
22:14 johnz left
masak ya think? 22:14
lue I've derived it to be safe!
bkeeler You've heard of exploding laptop batteries, no?
colomon PerlJam: Master cheats and just generates a separate [+], [*], etc, operator, for each infix operator.
PerlJam colomon: oh, that's right. I remember that.
colomon doing it right is a lot more funky. 22:15
lue colomon: would a circumfix [] possibly do any good? (then see what operator is inside, and so on) 22:16
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masak lue: the thing about logic is that it's not very interesting once you introduce a contradiction. the whole 'any thing can be proved given P&!P' thing is just a way of demonstrating that. if the whole world is pink, it's hard to tell things apart. 22:19
22:20 TSa left
masak losing power... must find outlet... 22:20
lue masak: ah, your a believer of reductio ad absurdum
22:20 masak left
colomon lue: The STD.pm version of the grammar is the way to go, I think -- but I find it completely incomprehensible. 22:22
afk
lue why can't we just take STD.pm and turn it into pir code? (it's pretty lazy, but...) 22:23
(and it probably doesn't work like that...)
bkeeler The NQP-rx grammar engine isn't quite up to parsing STD yet I think
And translating it by hand into pir would be anything but lazy! 22:24
Once we get grammars in rakudo directly it might get easier 22:25
lue how on earth would P6 ever support itself I wonder...? It would be cool when it happens though.
bkeeler though I don't know if/when we're actually planning on porting the compiler itself to run perl6 instead of NQP
I suspect it will be a more incremental approach. I think for ng they started with the NQP grammar and evolved it towards STD 22:27
lue a self-supporting programming language is the ultimate in cross-platform! (P6 running P6) 22:28
bkeeler Bootstrapping a new compiler is one of the most fascinating things to do in CS I think 22:29
Very interesting process
I remember in University discovering that C compilers were written in C and brain nearly exploded :) 22:30
lue makes complete sense to me :D 22:31
with all the power of P6, maybe someday one can compile it into machine-specific assembler (like C++ does)... \o/
That's how I'd do it: write P6 in P6, then have a script thing turn it into assembler (PIR or machine-specific, idk) 22:33
bkeeler Of course, at that time I was reading Hoffstadter's book and was getting used to having my mind blown 22:34
PerlJam lue: that's kind of what happens
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lue blowing people's minds is my hobby! \o/ Especially when it comes to time/time travel >:) 22:35
bkeeler paradoxes are fun
vamped hello Perl6
bkeeler heyas vamped
PerlJam greets vamped
vamped lue: did you see my solution in the backlog?
lue Saluton, vamped! Bonvenon al #perl6! 22:36
solution to what?
vamped infix <=
lue ah. Haven't looked yet. (must check later)
vamped works in alpha, but not master for some reason 22:37
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Brennus There are CPU sets that run LISP why not perl? 22:37
22:38 devinus joined
bkeeler A perlm! That's what we need 22:38
Brennus should be possible with microcode?
lue when I get masak's Temporal fix, I can write my hexdate/time converter and upload everything! \o/
22:41 Chillance joined
lue The perlm should be called a psalm (Perl Sudden Assembler - Light Memory) 22:41
Brennus hehe
lue Rakudo isn't a JIT compiler; it's a AFME (A Few Minutes Early) compiler. :D 22:42
lue brought to you by FWAI (Fun With Acronyms International)
Brennus should i be testing this release or the relatively stable one? 22:45
lue whichever you want to use. We're working on the master branch right now, though. 22:46
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PerlJam if you're working through the advent calendar it may be best to use the Jan release. All of those features will soon be in master, but they aren't all there yet 22:48
Brennus like how soon? 22:49
lue The year 20XX :D 22:50
PerlJam um ... Real Soon ?
Brennus Well, no hurry I suppose
PerlJam Certainly before April since that's when we release Rakudo * 22:51
Brennus for sure?
lue yes, or else we can be sued for false advertisement (!) :) 22:52
bkeeler It sounds ambitious, but I've been nothing short of amazed at the pace these guys maintain
frettled And if it's not ready by April, I want my money back! :D 22:54
Brennus probably some of you want your hair back
lue ...yeah :/ 22:55
Brennus anyone here play weiqi? 22:56
lue what's weiqi? 22:57
Brennus go
baduk
bkeeler Mornington Crescent! 22:59
Brennus I wrote a client for the internet go server with cocoa & camelbones
bkeeler Ooh, hadn't heard of camelbones. Looks interesting 23:01
Brennus it works fine but it is a major PITA to debug
lichtkind hereby i solemnly declare, the perl 6 wiki frontpage is now free of clutter 23:02
Brennus you can't get any of the perl messages, or at least I haven't figured out how to
it just has to work when you run it
else the whole thing dies with a useless message 23:03
frettled bkeeler: that announcement was a bit premature, I think you've forgotten the rules change introduced by Warwick in 1952.
(oops, typo, 1852)
bkeeler Ah yes, you're quite right Sir, my apologies 23:04
Picadillly Circus!
frettled I just passed Uxbridge. 23:05
bkeeler Hmmm... 23:06
Ealing Common
frettled I wonder if this is too obscure, maybe we should head for Finchley Central instead. 23:08
bkeeler Odd move
Aha, I see what you're up to 23:09
frettled taps the side of his nose meaningfully.
bkeeler Going to try the ol Jubilee line gambit are we?
23:09 wolf2k_ubuntu left
bkeeler Well, I'll have to backtrack a bit 23:09
frettled Oh, no, you're not getting me to reveal my plan, that's against the Mornsborough Principle.
bkeeler Embankment!
frettled sucks his breath.
Well played, sir, well played. 23:10
Well, you nearly got me at Hammersmith, but I'm actually at King's Cross now. 23:12
lue Objection! 23:13
frettled Pardon?
lue doesn't know this game
frettled Well, that's hardly a excuse, is it? According to Lyttelton, a lack of knowledge of the rules is no excuse at all. 23:14
bkeeler ponders feinting toward Leicester Square, but reconsiders
lue Verily, Sir. Ergo!
I beg pardonage
bkeeler doffs his hat at the mention of the great man 23:15
bkeeler realizes he's not actually wearing a hat and dons one so he can doff it 23:16
lue Rickmansworthshiretown says that the game is not to be underestimated.
bkeeler Hmm, I think I'll try Leicester Square after all 23:17
If I lose I can always take in a show
frettled Very well, then. Camden Town.
bkeeler Oof!
Oh dear, got myself trapped on the wrong line again
frettled A-ha1 23:18
s/1/!/
bkeeler Oh well, I have no choice but to retreat back to Piccadilly, dammit
frettled Hah, got you! Mornington Crescent. I'll buy you lunch at the Ministry when you get here. 23:19
bkeeler Well played, well played
frettled It was a nice game, to be sure! 23:23
23:24 jferrero joined
lue is it over, the game? 23:24
bkeeler Fraid so, he got there before me
lue good. 23:25
frettled lue: If you find a decent antique bookshop, maybe you can pick up Stovold’s Mornington Crescent: Rules and Origins, or more likely, The Little Book of Mornington Crescent by Tim, Graeme, Barry and Humph. 23:26
books.google.com/books?as_isbn=0752818643 23:30
Brennus cute 23:33
lue any of you ever been on ifMUD?
bkeeler Haven't played any muds since the early nineties 23:34
lue haven't been on ifMUD for a while, thinking of maybe getting back into it... 23:35
Brennus i played in a couple of vampire games at CMU & Manchester
frettled lue: nopes, sorry, I haven't played any of the new muds.
Brennus the CMU was really detailed around CMU (naturally) 23:36
lue yeah, just seeing if anyone had (must ask later as well)
frettled I think the most recent MUD I played was ZombieMUD or something like that, but maybe Medieval Nights was more recent.
I'm still socializing on VikingMUD, though, and I'm thinking about how to plan for the 20-year anniversary. 23:37
23:38 Brennus left 23:53 vamped left 23:57 snarkyboojum left
lue ...hello hello 23:58

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