»ö« Welcome to Perl 6! | perl6.org/ | evalbot usage: 'perl6: say 3;' or rakudo:, niecza:, std:, or /msg camelia perl6: ... | irclog: irc.perl6.org | UTF-8 is our friend!
Set by sorear on 25 June 2013.
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lue imagines the more bossy grammar modifications will disable the use statement or something similarly drastic to prevent issues with mixing. 00:00
Mouq I think mixing will be fine if the slangs are constrained to only add to certain categories 00:01
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lue Mouq: as an example, operators (IIRC) are considered a form of grammar modification. 00:01
Mouq I think maybe the distinction should be made between slangs and languages
lue yeah, I actually don't think "slang" is a useful concept anymore, at least not how it's currently defined. 00:02
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Mouq lue: It's defined? :P 00:02
lue The grammar part of language modification doesn't concern me nearly so much as the actions part, by the way. o_e 00:03
lue afk 00:06
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dalek c: aa56705 | Mouq++ | / (2 files):
Make sure urls are uri_escape'd

Fixes problems with links to operators like % and / being unescaped.		 00:12
Mouq Sorry for taking so long with that '<
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dalek ast: fd29f2b | Mouq++ | S02-types/multi_dimensional_array.t:
More comprehensive multi-dim tests
 00:44
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dalek ast: d870e42 | Mouq++ | S02-types/multi_dimensional_array.t:
Add tests for multi-dim slice assignment
 01:00
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hoelzro wow, CORE.setting parsed in 38 seconds o_O 01:06
next thing you know mokudo will make the kessel run in 12 parsecs! 01:07
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dalek kudo/nom: 356d57a | Mouq++ | src/core/ (2 files):
Fix multi-dim slice assignment
 01:17
ast: 5f72f88 | Mouq++ | S02-types/multi_dimensional_array.t:
Unfudge multi-dim slice assignment on Rakudo
BenGoldberg m: infix<d>($n,$s) { [+] (1..$s).roll($n) }; say 3 d 6; 01:21
camelia rakudo-moar 6117d5: OUTPUT«===SORRY!=== Error while compiling /tmp/FbI1bA9izz␤Variable '$n' is not declared␤at /tmp/FbI1bA9izz:1␤------> infix<d>($n⏏,$s) { [+] (1..$s).roll($n) }; say 3 d 6␤ expecting any of:␤ postfix␤»
BenGoldberg m: infix:<d>($n,$s) { [+] (1..$s).roll($n) }; say 3 d 6;
camelia rakudo-moar 6117d5: OUTPUT«===SORRY!=== Error while compiling /tmp/a2POEoRiaS␤Variable '$n' is not declared␤at /tmp/a2POEoRiaS:1␤------> infix:<d>($n⏏,$s) { [+] (1..$s).roll($n) }; say 3 d 6␤ expecting any of:␤ postfix␤»
hoelzro BenGoldberg: prefix with sub?
m: sub infix:<d>($n,$s) { [+] (1..$s).roll($n) }; say 3 d 6;
BenGoldberg m: sub infix:<d>($n,$s) { [+] (1..$s).roll($n) }; say 3 d 6; # I knew that ;)
camelia rakudo-moar 6117d5: OUTPUT«13␤»
rakudo-moar 6117d5: OUTPUT«11␤» 01:22
hoelzro ;)
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japhb Wild, I leave the infix:<d> idea as the last thing I say in this channel yesterday, I come back, and it's the most recent thing someone else has said. :-) 01:46
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dalek osystem: 14c993b | (Rob Hoelz)++ | META.list:
Add IO::String to META.list
 02:08
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hoelzro has anyone else had trouble installing panda lately? 02:09
I get this: When pre-compiling a module, its dependencies must be pre-compiled first 02:10
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hoelzro oh, nvm 02:12
I think I found a fixer-upper commit
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dalek osystem: 97da7e1 | (Rob Hoelz)++ | META.list:
Add Algorithm::LCS to META.list
 02:32
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[Coke] Files=912, Tests=32074, 151 wallclock secs ( 7.28 usr 2.61 sys + 989.20 cusr 110.46 csys = 1109.55 CPU) 02:48
not bad for a spectest run. (new box) 02:49
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croque TimToady hello 02:55
hello all.
[Coke] ~~ 02:58
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BenGoldberg m: sub gcd { $^b ?? gcd($^b, $^a % $^b) !! $^a }; say gcd( 12345, 67890 ); 03:01
camelia rakudo-moar 356d57: OUTPUT«15␤» 03:02
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hoelzro croque: hello 03:05
croque hoelzro Am looking for an easy tutorial for me to learn to program in Perl 6 and would like to know what this language can do? : P 03:10
:)
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PerlJam croque: There are some link on perl6.org under Documentation and Community 03:11
s/link/links/
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croque PerlJam ok man, thanks :) 03:12
rs
PerlJam croque: I've also got some docs at github.com/perlpilot/perl6-docs/tr...ster/intro that I wrote a while ago 03:13
btyler croque: there's also learnxinyminutes.com/docs/perl6/ which was written in the last few weeks
croque PerlJam ok bro, very good :P
..
btyler thanks
:D
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PerlJam That should probably be on perl6.org too if it's not already. 03:14
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croque I'm Brazilian, I do not know much English, however I will dedicate myself, learn English and perl, thanks for strength! ^ ^ 03:15
ok
BenGoldberg We need to get a bot on this channel that can be told to answer common questions... like perlbot does on #perl 03:17
PerlJam croque: There's also perl6advent.wordpress.com that goes back to 2009
croque BenGoldberg ye
;)
PerlJam croque: maybe you can help translate some of this stuff to portuguese :) 03:18
croque PerlJam ye, Learning, translated to my countrymen and other Portuguese-speaking countries .. :) 03:21
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sergot o/ 06:39
SHODAN are we there yet? 06:51
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egrep looks out of the windows 06:52
Nope. We're not in Devon yet.
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SHODAN :( 06:56
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sergot www.twitch.tv/fishplayspokemon oh, a fish that plays pokemon.. 06:59
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masak morningz, #perl6 07:04
sergot hi masak 07:05
moritz \o *
timotimo o/ 07:08
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FROGGS .tell cognome I can explain what FOREIGN_LANG does 07:31
yoleaux FROGGS: I'll pass your message to cognome.
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timotimo hm, it doesn't seem like inlining works after my patch last night 08:10
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timotimo jnthn: i think my last patch goes in the right direction, but i'd probably have to litter the code with log statements or so to see where exactly it goes wrong now 08:21
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timotimo and moarvm bytecode dumping doesn't work either 08:22
jnthn Hm, I fixed the dumping 08:23
Oh, but I think I put the patch in moar-jit
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masak someone want to add Perl 6's "operators are just functions" approach to en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operator_ove...verloading ? 09:44
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lizmat afk until way tomorrow& 09:59
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colomon Unhandled exception: While looking for 'ModuleLoader.moarvm': no such file or directory 10:01
at <unknown>:1 (/home/smoker/.rakudobrew/moar-HEAD/install/languages/perl6/runtime/perl6.moarvm::7)
Segmentation fault (core dumped)
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FROGGS it should be in /home/smoker/.rakudobrew/moar-HEAD/install/languages/nqp/lib/Perl6 10:05
timotimo the cat wants some of my cheesecake 10:08
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FROGGS bad kitty! 10:16
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timotimo had to grab him and put him back down on the floor like four times %) 10:19
twice from the left, twice from the right 10:20
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psch hi #perl6 o/ 10:20
timotimo because if he's not allowed to go at the cheesecake from the left, maybe he's allowed from the right?
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FROGGS timotimo: well, and then that is his cheesecake since you are just a guest 10:21
timotimo that's right 10:22
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timotimo i *am* only a guest 10:22
jnthn: changing the clone stuff to use QAST::Children's shallow_clone if it's of that type gives me the error Unknown QAST node type QAST::InlinePlaceholder
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timotimo but aren't InlinePlaceholders supposed to be replaced with vars by the time we in-line? 10:23
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timotimo hm, it might want to learn about QAST::NodeList? 10:30
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timotimo throws hands up in air 10:32
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psch better the hands than the cat or cheesecake! 10:33
timotimo :)
maybe the cat would enjoy being thrown up in the air?
the cat would definitely enjoy me throwing the cheesecake on the floor
that would be quite the meal %)
AFK
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FROGGS jnthn: I have a null object during stage parse in rakudo when I add debugging output to the nfa 10:46
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FROGGS jnthn: it explodes in op decont, and it seems to be str $name in mergesubrule 10:46
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FROGGS the obj itself is not NULL, but it points to NULLish memory 10:53
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FROGGS hmmm, it is not str $name... it might be $meth (returned by .NFA) 10:59
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FROGGS err, returned by find_method 11:17
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Ven o/, #perl6. 11:25
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FROGGS hi Ven 11:26
Ven I should probably PR perl6.org to add the LearnXinY 11:27
masak +1 11:28
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Ven sjn: I'll merge your PR manually by tomorrow, because I want it to be done before I leave 11:28
jnthn FROGGS: And does that happen on other backends? 11:29
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FROGGS jnthn: will check 11:43
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Mouq r: macro new_sub ($body) { quasi { sub { {{{$body}}} } } } # masak 12:10
camelia rakudo-moar 356d57: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Unknown QAST node type QAST::Unquote␤»
..rakudo-jvm 356d57: OUTPUT«(timeout)»
..rakudo-parrot 356d57: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Error while compiling op p6decontrv: Unknown QAST node type QAST::Unquote␤»
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masak interesting. 12:13
masak submits rakudobug
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FROGGS jnthn: does not happen on parrot 12:20
BenGoldberg n: macro new_sub ($body) { quasi { sub { {{{$body}}} } } } # masak 12:21
camelia niecza v24-109-g48a8de3: OUTPUT«Use of uninitialized value in string context␤ at /home/p6eval/niecza/boot/lib/CORE.setting line 1355 (warn @ 5) ␤ at /home/p6eval/niecza/boot/lib/CORE.setting line 266 (Mu.Str @ 15) ␤ at <unknown> line 0 (ExitRunloop @ 0) ␤ at /home/p6eval…»
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FROGGS BenGoldberg: but that's niecza 12:27
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BenGoldberg I just wondered what it would do ;) 12:28
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FROGGS :o) 12:29
BenGoldberg rn: my %c; %c{~[12,'12a',2].pick(*).sort} += 1 for 1..1e3; say %c; 12:31
camelia rakudo-jvm 356d57: OUTPUT«(timeout)» 12:32
..niecza v24-109-g48a8de3: OUTPUT«Use of uninitialized value in numeric context␤ at /home/p6eval/niecza/lib/CORE.setting line 1389 (warn @ 5) ␤ at /home/p6eval/niecza/lib/CORE.setting line 301 (Any.Numeric @ 8) ␤ at <unknown> line 0 (ExitRunloop @ 0) ␤ at /tmp/tmpfile line…»
..rakudo-moar 356d57: OUTPUT«("12 12a 2" => 377, "12a 2 12" => 316, "2 12 12a" => 307).hash␤»
..rakudo-parrot 356d57: OUTPUT«("12 12a 2" => 344, "12a 2 12" => 318, "2 12 12a" => 338).hash␤»
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BenGoldberg n: my %c; %c{[12, '12a', 2].pick(*).sort} += 1 for 1..1e3; say %c; 12:34
camelia niecza v24-109-g48a8de3: OUTPUT«{"12" => Any, "12a" => Any, "2" => 4}␤»
FROGGS jnthn: here is the bt: gist.github.com/FROGGS/be085ebc2da2a4167497 12:38
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FROGGS jnthn: I don't know how to continue from here :/ 12:43
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dalek ast/S26-WHY: f5eef00 | (Rob Hoelz)++ | S26-documentation/why-trailing.t:
S26: Add test for trailing comments on roles, grammars, etc
 12:55
ast/S26-WHY: 34f6287 | (Rob Hoelz)++ | S26-TODO.md:
More checking off of what's been done (test-wise)
ast/S26-WHY: 180f2d8 | (Rob Hoelz)++ | S26-TODO.md:
Make note to test with precompilation
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PerlJam buenos tardes mis amigos 12:57
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[Coke] hola; ¿que tal? 12:58
PerlJam well ... it's afternoon somewhere :)
Ulti where I am right now
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PerlJam (the european contingent are always later in the day, so I thought I'd edge my greeting more in their direction :) 13:00
Coke: I'm still waking up. slowly. (been up for a couple of hours, but I don't feel like it)
jnthn Si; es la tarde aqui :) 13:01
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jnthn wonders how fail that was :) 13:01
Haven't used Spanish at all for over 2 years...
PerlJam jnthn: it got the meaning across, so ... no fail :)
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jnthn Yeah. tbh I mostly used it to enable me to go eat at local restaurants rather than tourist traps when in Argentina. :) 13:03
When I lived in Spain, about 7 years ago now, I was somewhat more competent. Alas, lack of use = forgetting... :( 13:04
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PerlJam food does seem to be a driving force in language learning. (I mean, I know much more food stuff in spanish than I do other random conversational things) 13:05
[Coke] bieru o-kudasai! 13:06
PerlJam I can guess that first word, but google translate will have to help me with the rest. 13:07
well, maybe not. stupid translator. 13:08
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jnthn "Beer please" innit? 13:09
timotimo una cervesa por favor
cerveza, apparently 13:10
jnthn yes :)
nwc10 I can't spell it, but "pivo mowlem"
summon mberends to correct me
jnthn nwc10: Croatian? :)
nwc10 yes 13:11
how many slavic languages are similar
?
Ulti mia birra parakalo
PerlJam all of them?
nwc10 IIRC, also "øl tag"
jnthn Well, there's west, east, and south slavic subgroups
Croatian being in the south, which is the group I'm most ignorant about :) 13:12
nwc10 because of all that nasty warm weather?
[Coke] "fosters, mate?"
jnthn Just haven't been there so much 13:13
I lived in a country speaking a west slavic language for a bit :)
And traveled and had a g/f in a country speaking an east slavic one :) 13:14
But only visited Slovenia and Croatia for a few days each.
Pity. It's really nice down there.
nwc10 "hack"athon next year? :-) 13:15
jnthn ooh
I'd do it :)
nwc10 the smiley was meant to show that "I'm not organising one". 13:16
I'm not even really managing to organise this one: act.useperl.at/apw2014/talk/5565
PerlJam nwc10: There's no date scheduled, but you know it's going to be on a Sunday? 13:18
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nwc10 Odd. Act knows that it's on the 12th 13:20
OK. act.useperl.at/apw2014/schedule?day=2014-10-12 13:21
"The schedule is not ready to be seen." unless you are logged in as an admin
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Ven I just realized -- we don't have a `!when` ? 13:22
nwc10 PerlJam: it does say "Sunday" and "Monday" on act.useperl.at/apw2014/index.html
PerlJam Ven: why would we?
nwc10 PerlJam: but you're right, it doesn't say that on the page for the "presentation" 13:23
Ven PerlJam: `.say whenot /a/ for @a`
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[Coke] same reason you'd have if ! complicated(thing) { # common case } ? 13:25
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PerlJam Ven: why use when there at all instead of if/unless? 13:25
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PerlJam m: .say unless /a/ for <foo bar baz goober>; 13:25
camelia rakudo-moar 356d57: OUTPUT«foo␤goober␤»
[Coke] PerlJam: why have when at all if we have if/unlesss?
moritz the real question is: what would the !when thingy be called? 13:26
Ven PerlJam: that only works with regexps
cognome FROGGS, so what FOREIGN_LANG does?
yoleaux 07:31Z <FROGGS> cognome: I can explain what FOREIGN_LANG does
moritz because !when is clearly no advantage over when !
Ven m: .say when 5 for ^10; say unless 20 when ^30;
camelia rakudo-moar 356d57: OUTPUT«===SORRY!=== Error while compiling /tmp/_Inx9hIkVk␤Missing semicolon.␤at /tmp/_Inx9hIkVk:1␤------> .say when 5 for ^10; say unless 20 ⏏when ^30;␤ expecting any of:␤ postfix␤»
Ven m: .say when 5 for ^10; say when !20 for ^30;
camelia rakudo-moar 356d57: OUTPUT«5␤»
Ven moritz: ^.
moritz Ven: I see the use case, but still not a good name 13:27
[Coke] moritz: I don't think when ! foo would work the same as when not foo.
Ven ($s.split('') X=> ('a'..z') xx *).map(* ne *)[0].key; <- my code for what I wanted to do
moritz: oh, ofc, terrible name :)
[Coke] er, whennot.
BenGoldberg m: .say when none(5) for ^10;
camelia rakudo-moar 356d57: OUTPUT«0␤1␤2␤3␤4␤6␤7␤8␤9␤» 13:28
moritz [Coke]: right, it's a smart match
BenGoldberg++
yes, a junction works for negating a smart match
Ven yeah, thought about it :)
[Coke] I tried to write "when !~" just now.
BenGoldberg Is there a linenoise version of none, though?
Ven BenGoldberg: none doesn't have one
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Ven they're binaries anyway 13:30
(though list associative)
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PerlJam I don't see the need for increasing the sugar content to get a "not when". "when" is already sugary enough by itself. IF you need "not when", then just use the "if" forms. (IMHO) 13:35
Ven PerlJam: unless $_ ~~, actually.
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PerlJam well, "unless $_ ~~ ..." or "if $_ !~~ ...", whichever makes you happiest. :) 13:36
Ven Oh, I can use >>[=>]>> instead of ('a'..'z') xx *
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Ven m: sub infix:<< <(((°> >>($s) { $s }; say <(((°> "foo" 13:39
camelia rakudo-moar 356d57: OUTPUT«===SORRY!=== Error while compiling /tmp/bFZNlL9n8F␤Two terms in a row␤at /tmp/bFZNlL9n8F:1␤------> fix:<< <(((°> >>($s) { $s }; say <(((°> ⏏"foo"␤ expecting any of:␤ postfix␤ infix stopp…»
Ven we lost the fish.
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PerlJam something was wrong with his tail anyway 13:40
moritz well, if you declare it as an infix, you must use it as an infix :-) 13:41
BenGoldberg m: sub prefix:<< <(((􏿽xB0> >>($s) { $s }; say <(((􏿽xB0> "foo"
camelia rakudo-moar 356d57: OUTPUT«foo␤»
moritz m: sub infix:<< <(((°> >>($a, $b) { $a ~ $b }; say 'bar' <(((°> "foo"
camelia rakudo-moar 356d57: OUTPUT«barfoo␤»
moritz U+424242 RIGHT-FACING FISH 13:42
PerlJam 424242? What I tell you three times is true?
Timbus <°)⋊ 13:43
PerlJam
.oO( Next I'll show that Jesus is clearly the answer because he is often associated with the symbol of a fish :-)
 13:44
BenGoldberg rn: say 0x424242.chr
camelia rakudo-jvm 356d57: OUTPUT«java.lang.IllegalArgumentException␤ in method chr at gen/jvm/CORE.setting:4498␤ in block at /tmp/tmpfile:1␤␤»
..rakudo-moar 356d57: OUTPUT«(signal )»
..rakudo-parrot 356d57: OUTPUT«Invalid character for UTF-8 encoding␤␤ in method chr at gen/parrot/CORE.setting:4503␤ in block at /tmp/tmpfile:1␤␤»
..niecza v24-109-g48a8de3: OUTPUT«(Any)␤»
BenGoldberg Ouch 13:45
Ven BenGoldberg++ :D # fish<3 13:46
BenGoldberg m: sub prefix:<< ⋉((°> >> { say $^a }; ⋉((°> 'a fish'; 13:48
camelia rakudo-moar 356d57: OUTPUT«a fish␤»
Timbus <°)͜͡˒ ⋊ 13:50
imagine if i used my talents for evil 13:52
Ven we'd love it.
[Coke] draw me phineas & ferb! 13:54
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Timbus heh 13:55
PerlJam would that be using his talents for evil or not? 13:56
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[Coke] only to help take over the tri-state area! 13:58
Timbus ∞⃤
never used that triangle..
PerlJam Timbus is Doofenshmirtz?
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carlin Stage parse : 26.848 14:02
:o \o/ 14:03
Ven .u ∞⃤
yoleaux U+20E4 COMBINING ENCLOSING UPWARD POINTING TRIANGLE [Me] (◌⃤)
U+221E INFINITY [Sm] (∞)
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dalek kudo-star-daily: 7a35757 | coke++ | log/ (14 files):
today (automated commit)
 14:22
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dalek rl6-roast-data: 499ae6d | coke++ | / (5 files):
today (automated commit)
 15:01
[Coke] virtually no changes in daily test failures; all 4 implementations need fudging or tickets. 15:03
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Ven m: say @*ARGVFILES 15:08
camelia rakudo-moar 356d57: OUTPUT«Dynamic variable @*ARGVFILES not found␤ in method gist at src/gen/m-CORE.setting:12932␤ in sub say at src/gen/m-CORE.setting:13870␤ in block at /tmp/IQVFvgMlR0:1␤␤»
Ven trying to read one line off 2 files at the same time
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PerlJam You want ARGFILES (no V) 15:10
[Coke] m: say $?ARGLEBARGLEFILES
camelia rakudo-moar 356d57: OUTPUT«===SORRY!=== Error while compiling /tmp/f91p5gxVMM␤Variable '$?ARGLEBARGLEFILES' is not declared␤at /tmp/f91p5gxVMM:1␤------> say $?ARGLEBARGLEFILES⏏<EOL>␤ expecting any of:␤ postfix␤»
PerlJam Ven: wait ... 2 files at the same time? You don't want $*ARGFILES at all. It's just a filehandle. You probably want to process @*ARGS yourself. 15:14
masak maybe even MAIN
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PerlJam who here has access to feather3? 15:17
Ven no, I just want a really simple script. 15:19
just a one-liner,a ctually
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Ven tried to use p5, but I guess I'm too bad. 15:22
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Ven why is this so hard. 15:24
well, whatever, editor to the rescue
PerlJam Ven: why do you want to read multiple files in parallel? 15:25
cognome so am I, I try to figure out all these interlevel language stuff like FOREIGN_LANG, and magic in the ModuleLoader. I have not yet a global picture of how everything fit together.
Ven PerlJam: why ask
does reading from 2 different files seem that crazy ???
PerlJam Ven: no, just curious. Trying to obtain more information about what you're doing to get some context. 15:26
Ven gave up on doing it programmatically. 15:27
I even tried `while (<file>) { print }` and it just printed the name of the file :D
FROGGS cognome: it checks that the target grammar is NQPish or Perl 6ish, and then marshals to Perl 6 and creates an NQP cursor to return if the target is Perl 6ish 15:28
Ven oh, I gotta use a filehandle stuff 15:30
PerlJam Ven: @*ARGS».IO».get».say # output the first line of all the files in @*ARGS 15:32
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cognome FROGGS: If I want to write a toy language, should I use nqp or perl6. Apparently you are using nqp for p5 15:39
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cognome say, can I use EXPR from Perl 6? 15:40
if yes, how?
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cognome I mean, from a Perl 6 grammar. 15:45
Ven, you are mixing Perl 5 and Perl 6 idioms 15:47
15:47 Ven left
TimToady m: while (<file>) { print } 15:48
camelia rakudo-moar 356d57: OUTPUT«(timeout)»
TimToady std: while (<file>) { print }
camelia std 0f2049c: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤This appears to be Perl 5 code at /tmp/05STc6uy1p line 1:␤------> while ⏏(<file>) { print }␤Parse failed␤FAILED 00:01 120m␤»
TimToady std: print 15:50
camelia std 0f2049c: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Unsupported use of bare 'print'; in Perl 6 please use .print if you meant $_, or use an explicit invocant or argument at /tmp/Yr5TYwXWlk line 1:␤------> print⏏<EOL>␤Check failed␤FAILED 00:00 120m␤»
TimToady m: print
15:50 pecastro left
camelia ( no output ) 15:50
TimToady and that one
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Ulti m: $*IN.lines>>.say 15:52
camelia rakudo-moar 356d57: OUTPUT«Atá beo go buan gan bhuairt gan ghruaim fá ghleanntáin ghlas’ Ghaoth Dobhair. ␤Is do d’fheara breáth’ in am an ghá nár úmhlaigh riamh roimh Ghall;␤␤'S deireadh mo shaoil a chaitheamh lem ghaoil,␤Ach trom lámh Gall, le cluain 's le fea…»
TimToady m: .say for lines
camelia rakudo-moar 356d57: OUTPUT«Céad slán ag sléibhte maorga Chontae Dhún na nGall␤Agus dhá chéad slán ag an Eireagal ard ina stua os cionn caor is coll;␤Nuair a ghluais mise thart le Loch Dhún Lúich’ go ciúin sa ghleann ina luí␤I mo dhiaidh bhí gleanntáin ghlas’ G…»
Ulti out of interest does the above suck in all of the file first or do it in an iterative way?
TimToady it *should* suck it all in first, because hypers aren't lazy 15:53
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Ulti TimToady: in your version what is lines :S a sub? 15:53
TimToady yes 15:54
with no arguments it defaults to the input
but note: 15:55
Ulti takes note
TimToady std: for lines { .say }
camelia std 0f2049c: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Function 'lines' needs parens to avoid gobbling block at /tmp/bSCheyWxQ4 line 1:␤------> for lines⏏ { .say }␤Missing block (apparently gobbled by 'lines') at /tmp/bSCheyWxQ4 line 1:␤------> for line…»
TimToady std: for lines() { .say }
camelia std 0f2049c: OUTPUT«ok 00:01 124m␤»
TimToady m: for lines() { .say }
camelia rakudo-moar 356d57: OUTPUT«Céad slán ag sléibhte maorga Chontae Dhún na nGall␤Agus dhá chéad slán ag an Eireagal ard ina stua os cionn caor is coll;␤Nuair a ghluais mise thart le Loch Dhún Lúich’ go ciúin sa ghleann ina luí␤I mo dhiaidh bhí gleanntáin ghlas’ G…»
Ulti otherwise it assumes the {} is the first parameter 15:56
TimToady m: for lines { .say }
camelia rakudo-moar 356d57: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Function lines needs parens to avoid gobbling block␤at /tmp/edRZUcRsJ9:1␤------> for lines { .say }⏏<EOL>␤Missing block (apparently taken by 'lines')␤at /tmp/edRZUcRsJ9:1␤------> for line…»
TimToady m: for (lines) { .say } # also works
camelia rakudo-moar 356d57: OUTPUT«Céad slán ag sléibhte maorga Chontae Dhún na nGall␤Agus dhá chéad slán ag an Eireagal ard ina stua os cionn caor is coll;␤Nuair a ghluais mise thart le Loch Dhún Lúich’ go ciúin sa ghleann ina luí␤I mo dhiaidh bhí gleanntáin ghlas’ G…»
Ulti but not for(lines) :) 15:57
TimToady sure, if you write a definition for the function :P 15:59
but then you can't put a block after it
PerlJam macros to the rescue! ;) 16:01
Ulti heh
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carlin oh dear, perldoc.perl6.org's <noscript /> message calls IE8 a "modern web browser" 16:11
*perldoc.perl.org 16:12
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cognome Perl is postmodern 16:12
[Coke] oooooh. with the new ie8 EOL announcement, we no longer have to go out of our way to support it. :) 16:13
which also reminds me, moritz, you about?
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[Coke] .seen moritz 16:13
yoleaux I saw moritz 13:41Z in #perl6: <moritz> U+424242 RIGHT-FACING FISH
carlin now IE9 just has to EOL. 10 is where it starts getting sane.
[Coke] and 10 is only on old OSes. 11 is fine to target, IMO. 16:14
we can "support" older versions with "working-but-ugly"
TimToady 𒈾 16:15
carlin can't see that character 16:16
moritz [Coke]: I'm here now 16:27
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moritz [Coke]: do you know some usage stats of IE8? 16:29
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moritz www.w3counter.com/globalstats.php?y...mp;month=7 says 3.78% 16:33
I'm fine with dropping support for it.
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dalek rl6-bench: 87e809d | (Geoffrey Broadwell)++ | analyze:
Add new test conf keys found when merging timings files
 16:53
rl6-bench: 58ca1fa | (Geoffrey Broadwell)++ | analyze:
Don't always mix test score into summary + bug fix in summary score calc

Some tests, such as empty loops, don't represent a structure that would ever appear in real code but which can be very heavily optimized by some compilers, thus skewing summary scores unrealistically. This change provides a way for tests to be opted-out of the summary score.
Also, fix a bug where the geometric mean would use a power calculated for *all* tests, not just the ones actually included in the summary score (which has been inaccurate ever since incomplete results were auto-skipped).
rl6-bench: 5fcc275 | (Geoffrey Broadwell)++ | microbenchmarks.pl:
Opt out several microbenchmarks from summary score calculations
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japhb timotimo: After the above, you'll want to rerun your HEAD tests, so that the new summary-skipping configs will be picked up. Note that sadly due to the bug fix, the scores for Rakudo and NQP are much more accurate in most cases, but depressingly lower. 16:55
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japhb would rather have an unhappy truth than a happy lie though 16:55
TimToady notes that the @a.push(1) test does not test what he fixed yesterday, which shows up more under @a.push(@a) 16:56
or @a.push(1,2,3,4,5)
japhb TimToady: Are you referring to perl6-bench? 16:57
TimToady or push anything longer than 1
yes
japhb Ah, OK.
TimToady I don't think there's a test for pushing something long onto something long
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japhb Yes, I'd like to have more complete testing of two major classes of things: 1) Optimizations that we currently have and don't want to regress on, and 2) the edge cases that *don't* get optimized, so we can be realistic about what average users will face when they step off the paved walkway 16:58
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japhb Would you like a commitbit, so you can fill in the cases you're interested in? 16:58
I'm rather short of test-writing time this month .... 16:59
TimToady is having a bit more time this month than he expected a month ago :/
japhb Is that a good or bad thing?
TimToady well, when it's the result of a complex detached retina...
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TimToady so I guess I wouldn't mind a commitbit 17:00
japhb Granted. :-) 17:01
Bleah, sorry to hear about retinal issues
TimToady not sure how to SCALE something that doubles in size every time though...
which is what @a.push(@a) does...
japhb TimToady: Define a work function, which tells it how to compute the actual work done based on the scale 17:02
And you might want to tell it to grow SCALE linearly
(And set the work function to e.g. sub { 2 ** $_[0] }
)
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TimToady okay, will try to look at that later today 17:03
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japhb afk to change buildings 17:03
Yeah, just ping me if you have issues (better to ping on #moarvm or via PM if I haven't spoken up here recently). 17:04
TimToady
.oO(what if the buildings don't want to change?)
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[Coke] moritz: wanted to ask you if you woudl be opposed to switching perl6.org to a simple mojo app (I'm mainly hoping to improve developer turnaround time when making changes) 17:08
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nwc10 [Coke]: not that I think I have anything to add, but I'm curious - what is it currently? 17:09
[Coke] (mojo5 for now, and then dogfooding it on mojo6 when that's a thing)
nwc10 and I was guessing that mojo6 might be part of this
[Coke] nwc10: it's using moritz's module to pre-render the site, then is served as a static site. 17:10
nwc10 ah right
FROGGS cognome: in v5 in the nqp_to_perl6 branch there is a Perl 6 version of EXPR 17:12
flussence
.oO( I guess nowadays the "prerender everything" model is seen as old fashioned - you could just use a caching reverse proxy to achieve the same thing instead. )
 17:13
FROGGS cognome: in near future I want to put all these things like EXPR in a module, which should make buildings slangs a lot easier 17:14
PerlJam Coke: +1 (perl6.org as mojo app)
PerlJam waits to see moritz's reaction. 17:15
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hoelzro mojo++ 17:18
[Coke]: you started working on Mojo::Util for mojo6, right?
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cognome FROGGS: thx for the info 17:27
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cognome FROGGS: I did not realize how much was going in p5 17:28
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cognome s/p5/v5/ 17:29
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japhb flussence: There is still a use for prerender everything -- much reduced attack surface, which matters if there's no one to constantly monitor for vulnerabilities and patch quickly. 17:31
(I'm not saying that's an overriding concern here, just that it matters for a non-trivial use case.)
flussence yeah, that's a good point. One reason why I wish browsers would hurry up and support <iframe seamless>, so the dynamic bits of a site could be the bare minimum necessary :) 17:33
TimToady [Coke]: it would be spelled 'biiru' in more typical Japanese orthography, unless it was spelled ビール or びいる; 'bieru' would mean something more like 'gain beauty' :)
you can't mix Japanese and German orthography like that :P
japhb "Can't" is a pretty strong word coming from a linguist. :-) 17:36
cognome FROGGS: I did not realize I was already on the nqp_to_perl6 branch. No wonder my complaining about v5 installation did not make any sense 17:39
[Coke] hoelzro: I dabbled for a bit. only worked on converting some of the trivial util stuff, haven't done anything meaty yet. 17:42
TimToady: Yes, my bad. though I could use some of that too!
PerlJam [Coke]: aren't you married? :) 17:44
[Coke] I mean for myself! 17:46
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lichtkind thank gos i finally understood make 17:55
s/gos/god/
but why o why perl 6 tells me a mathc object is any?
of that type 17:56
did everything as in a text file
PerlJam lichtkind: Are you sure it's a match object?
lichtkind yes didnt do anything but my $match = Lingua::DEU.parse($num_str, ); #:actions($a) 17:57
say "result = ", $match;
FROGGS[mobile] cognome: ahh, now I see... run: perl6-m Build.pm clean && perl6-m Build.pm build 17:59
that is what panda will use, though I commented the panda support so I do not need to rebootstrap panda all the time 18:01
hoelzro [Coke]: alright; I'm just very intrigued by a Mojo6 port 18:04
so I could check some of the existing stuff out in the future
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lichtkind its maybe a bug 18:07
bevcause i do some regex stuff in fron on same string 18:08
nope 18:09
but i recompile now
maybe fixed
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vendethiel cognome: no, I'm not mixing Perl 5 and 6 idioms ;) 18:19
I literally tried it to do in p5.
I'm learning p5 with a book woolfy++ gave me :P
cognome woolfy++ 18:21
vendethiel reading it made me realize a big difference between how the book is written and how I write 18:22
(admittedly, they're writing a WHOLE HUGE BOOK WITH PAGES, but I'd still try to stick with it if I were as well) 18:23
they're showing a lot of stuff you have no clue about. Like eval. If you knew another language, to you, eval would be soo different. They didn't explai nwhat references are but are using them quite a bit. etc
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vendethiel .o( If the language isn't sane, why would the book have to be sane? ) 18:24
.oO( Is that why all programming books are insane ? )
cognome vendethiel: what book are you reading?
vendethiel cognome: erm, programming perl the fourth.
TimToady and we had to cut some things out to keep it down to about 1000 pages... 18:26
vendethiel well,it's no question that p5 is a big lang anyway :).
I get funny looks when I open it up in public transports :P.
PerlJam TimToady: I can't imagine what you'll have to cut out to keep "Programming Perl 6" down that small :)
vendethiel PerlJam: not a lot.
cognome I knew very well the first and the second edition. Probably the first edition was the first O'Reilly I read with an animal on it. Then I lost track. 18:27
vendethiel PerlJam: for the size it has, my tutorial explains a lot of stuff, for example.
TimToady pink camel was pink, except for the camel
vendethiel Perl6 is easier to explain because you don't need to explain all these corner cases :P
PerlJam vendethiel: sure, but that's more stuff in the language to explain. 18:28
vendethiel which reminds me -- when I switched to perl5 highlighting on github, I had to comment $abc'def because it highlighted incorrectly
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vendethiel BUT THAT ACTUALLY EXISTS IN P5 TOO! (though deprecated) 18:28
cognome Before that, I had bought the books about X11. Being utter crap, the technology, not the books. TimToady's book was shiny.
vendethiel PerlJam: I think you really underestimate the amount of preparation one needs to explain some corner case
lichtkind PerlJam: so you have no further ideas?
TimToady well, it was raising the bar on the state of the art when Tim O allowed us to put in jokes 18:29
lichtkind thank you anyway :)
vendethiel PerlJam: just being able to say "oh yea here it works like in for" is just so incredible
PerlJam lichtkind: not without more info. Where's your code/input/output?
18:29 denis_boyun_ left
lichtkind not on the net but i fiddle for a while and ask when i gave up :) 18:29
cognome vendethiel: if you learn Perl 5, you got to submit an entry to paris.mongueurs.net/aplusplus.html to revive the page. 18:31
vendethiel I'm not that much into the timtoady spirit ;) 18:32
(the lowercase one :p)
cognome that page is a compendium of edge Perl 5 cases :)
PerlJam vendethiel: maybe you should use python. it too is not very much into tmtowtdi.
vendethiel PerlJam: python is terrible and I hate guido quite a bit, so no thanks. 18:33
well, "hate" is certainly far too strong, but I don't give him any credit.
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PerlJam vendethiel: P5 stole (part of) its object system from Python, so there's got to be some redeeming qualities to Guido ;) 18:34
vendethiel PerlJam: it's not like python invented its object system to start with... 18:35
lichtkind r: grammar t { rule TOP {d} } say t.parse("ddd"); 18:38
camelia rakudo-{parrot,jvm,moar} 356d57: OUTPUT«===SORRY!=== Error while compiling /tmp/tmpfile␤Two terms in a row␤at /tmp/tmpfile:1␤------> grammar t { rule TOP {d} } ⏏say t.parse("ddd");␤ expecting any of:␤ statement list␤ …»
lichtkind r: grammar t { rule TOP {d} }; say t.parse("ddd"); 18:39
camelia rakudo-{parrot,jvm,moar} 356d57: OUTPUT«(Any)␤»
lichtkind it says any too
FROGGS lichtkind: because it fails to match
PerlJam it also doesn't match :)
FROGGS r: grammar t { rule TOP { ddd } }; say t.parse("ddd"); 18:40
camelia rakudo-{parrot,jvm,moar} 356d57: OUTPUT«｢ddd｣␤␤»
FROGGS m: grammar t { rule TOP { d } }; say t.subparse("ddd");
camelia rakudo-moar 356d57: OUTPUT«#<failed match>␤»
FROGGS m: grammar t { rule TOP { ddd } }; say t.subparse("d");
camelia rakudo-moar 356d57: OUTPUT«#<failed match>␤»
FROGGS err
lichtkind i understood
thank you
FROGGS m: grammar t { rule TOP {d} }; say t.subparse("ddd"); 18:41
camelia rakudo-moar 356d57: OUTPUT«｢d｣␤␤»
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PerlJam ah, I was worried for a second. 18:41
It's because you used rule rather than token the first time 18:42
cognome hum, what .subparse?
TimToady it's because <.ws> implied after the d can't match between dd 18:43
PerlJam cognome: .parse() anchors the match with ^ and $, .subparse() does not.
cognome ho, it's in S05
TimToady well, subparse anchors at ^
cognome the day where I will know all of it has not come. 18:44
TimToady well, technically, they both anchor at :p, which defaults to 0
nwc10 cognome: could you test this one: ++${*{$::{do{$^X =~ m!([^/]+)!; substr "1" ^ $1, $[, 1}}}{SCALAR}};
TimToady cognome: the day that comes, you will have forgotten something very important :) 18:45
cognome nwc10: gives Can't use an undefined value as a symbol reference at (eval 7)[/System/Library/Perl/5.16/perl5db.pl:646] line 2. 18:46
nwc10 ah OK. seems that you need to start with a valid $::A 18:47
cognome maybe need to test with -e
nwc10 aha. you need an $A somewhere
cognome well the rules of that contest are not well defined.
nwc10 :-)
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nwc10 $ perl -le 'use strict; $::A = 5; ++${*{$::{do{$^X =~ m!([^/]+)!; substr "1" ^ $1, $[, 1}}}{SCALAR}}; print $::A' 18:48
6
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nwc10 strict and warnings, if you have an $A somewhere. 18:48
pmurias hi
nwc10 but does trip up on what is one of the niggly annoyances of Perl 5 - there's no way to create a proper typeglob for the symbol table, other than a soft reference 18:49
or the compiler
(ie eval)
cognome I forgot what $::A is in Perl 5
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pmurias jnthn: why do the various QAST::Compiler's use a $*WANT if as_* has a :$want argument? 18:49
nwc10 cognome: $A, but expressed in a way that strict doesn't object to
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nwc10 pmurias: as seen on #moarvm earlier: 18:49
14:22 * jnthn will be away for some time
14:22 < jnthn> &
cognome ok, I will ask Maddingue to add your submission to the page 18:50
nwc10 if you and maddingue think that it's valid within the "rules"
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cognome it is certainly disgusting enough to fit in :) 18:54
nwc10 I'm glad I correctly understood the style guide. 18:55
cognome :)
nwc10 I'm not sure how many ugly/vile/deprecated Perl 5 features it uses 18:56
it's got typeglob dereference, reliance on string ^ rather than numeric ^, grautious use of $[
and nothing use strict objects to 18:57
cognome I forgot what $^X is, too
nwc10 executable name
vendethiel nwc10: does $'A work instead of $::A ?
nwc10 basically, I wondered if I could get "A" from one of the letters of "perl", and went from there
vendethiel: yes, probably
mmm, strange, seems not 18:58
cognome now, I think I understand the gist of it
vendethiel nwc10: maybe it has to be qualified on both sides
nwc10 that might be a bug in the perl 5 parser
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nwc10 oops, correction needed 19:00
perl -wle 'use strict; $::A = 5; ++${*{$::{do{$^X =~ m!([^/]+)$!; substr "1" ^ $1, $[, 1}}}{SCALAR}}; print $::A' 19:01
still 6, but needs that to work if run with /usr/bin/perl
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nwc10 cognome: could you test ${chr ($] + ord ($"^$;))}++; 19:16
vendethiel oh right, $] is a variable ._. 19:17
nwc10 cognome: actually, I think I prefer the whitespace free: ${chr($]+ord($"^$;))}++;
cognome: er, maybe I like this variant best: ${$;^=$";chr$]+ord$;}++; 19:20
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cognome nwc10: I will read the backlog to see what you settle with. And you can submit many entries. And I should probe BooK to submit a bilingual one Perl[56] as well. :) 19:23
nwc10 wise move, waiting for me to stop changing my mind 19:24
not only won't that one parse under Perl 6, if it did it would be $B++
please don't try to test it on EBCDIC 19:25
masak augh
nwc10 was that something I said?
EBCDIC
masak ick
japhb What's with all the p5 line noise and obfu today? 19:27
nwc10 japhb: irclog.perlgeek.de/perl6/2014-08-08#i_9155554 19:28
FROGGS: I'm not expecting that v5 is ever going to get those "right"
japhb nwc10: Oh the horror.
nwc10 Even if it's theoretically possible, I doubt that it's worth the effort to make it work 19:29
japhb I wondered if y'all were creating edge cases for use v5 or something ....
FROGGS nwc10: well, I would still accept a bug report about that :o)
nwc10 symbol tables, typeglobs, default values of obscure magic variables?
FROGGS well, v5 has to fake some of them 19:30
japhb wonders what makes any particular magic variable more obscure ...
pmurias how often they are used? 19:31
japhb pmurias: Fair enough. Though almost no one uses $[, but it's probably less obscure than others because of all the warnings saying "FOR THE LOVE OF PETE, DON'T USE THIS!" 19:32
19:33 cosimo left
FROGGS jnthn: I have a "fix" for the NFA bug... 19:33
nwc10 pmurias: I don't know. Mostly I think in "one" liners, or obfuscations 19:34
pmurias I don't think v5 needs to worry about obfuscations 19:38
japhb After a quick review of perlvar, I think the most obscure non-format magic var is $^F. 19:40
(I exclude the format ones because either you use formats and might know them, or don't and never would have seen them, which isn't entirely fair.)
pmurias does v5 handle any real perl5 modules?
nwc10 I think it's reasonable to treat the format ones differently
[Coke] whee. running TEST_JOBS=8 make spectest with rakudo-jvm, no swap being used anywhere on the box. ahhhh. 19:41
japhb [Coke]: Oooh, how low did you get the r-j memory usage to? 19:42
FROGGS pmurias: pragma 'if' :o)
pmurias: not much else because of deps
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pmurias FROGGS: do you think v5 is a viable way to bring perl5 modules to perl6 land or is everything to inter connected? 19:54
FROGGS pmurias: I still think that this can work out, yes 19:55
dalek p-js: 33fd75c | (Pawel Murias)++ | src/vm/js/bin/run_tests:
Remove the first serialization test from run_tests.
 19:58
p-js: b5835f0 | (Pawel Murias)++ | / (6 files):
Start a refactor/rewrite of the nqp-js code emitter.
japhb pmurias: What's the current state of nqp-js? (I haven't kept up with it since we first added it to perl6-bench.) 20:00
pmurias it was added to perl6-bench? 20:01
japhb: I have started rewriting/refactoring the code emitter to emit sensible code 20:02
japhb pmurias: A long time ago, yes: 17254162 (Geoffrey Broadwell 2012-12-20 14:52:29 -0800 42) "nqp-js": { 20:03
Apparently I didn't update the TODO correctly, though, sigh.
20:04 wtw left
dalek rl6-bench: 68f3ffe | (Geoffrey Broadwell)++ | TODO:
Fix ancient and misleading TODO item
 20:04
pmurias in the current HEAD nothing works, but in the previous commit it passed a bunch of nqp test, and it was integrated in the nqp build system 20:05
japhb pmurias: But how complete is the port? Can I consider nqp-js to be on par with nqp-jvm or nqp-moar?
vendethiel japhb: oh, pmurias++'s nqp-js is benched somewhere?
pmurias it's horribly utterly slow
japhb vendethiel: It was added to perl6-bench as a known component a long time ago, but it's been quite a while since I tried to benchmark it. 20:06
pmurias I have started rewriting parts of it to make it emit decent code 20:07
[Coke] java.lang.OutOfMemoryError: GC overhead limit exceeded at java.util.concurrent.LinkedBlockingQueue.offer(LinkedBlockingQueue.java:415) at java.util.AbstractQueue.add(AbstractQueue.java:95) at org.perl6.nqp.runtime.Ops$AddToQueueTimerTask.run(Ops.java:4396)
vendethiel nice :-)
pmurias japhb: it's complete enough to compile an nqp to js and have the compiled nqp run a bunch of tests
[Coke] japhb: not low enough. (didn't tweak it at all. I just have 16G on this box()
vendethiel (not the error, obviously)
[Coke] ... and now lots of tests are dying, now that I hit that. 20:09
japhb [Coke]: Awww. I was hoping that the memory savings jnthn++ had found in NQP and Rakudo had made a huge difference to r-j.
[Coke] japhb: I haven't been able to even build r-j on my old laptop with 4G 20:10
new laptop with 16G it builds, but apparently is still not 100% using the eval server under high load.
japhb pmurias: Is there an easy way to describe the set of tests it *can't* run? And for the tests that fail, are they crashes/parsefails/etc. or just wrong results? 20:11
[Coke]: Hmmmm, OK
japhb is thinking of getting a new personal laptop (my current one is darn near ancient), and it sounds like "lots of RAM" still needs to be high on the requirements list. 20:12
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pmurias japhb: atm, it runs zero tests as I'm rewriting things 20:19
japhb pmurias: Do you tag "good" revs (or releases, if you have them) before ripping things apart? 20:20
pmurias japhb: github.com/pmurias/nqp-js/blob/mas.../run_tests - the comment out line is the set of tests it used to run 20:21
japhb: not yet as I don't think anybody is using nqp-js for anything atm 20:22
after the rewrite I propably will start doing it
japhb That would be quite helpful. As well as doing major breakage in a branch, so master is always buildable. 20:25
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lichtkind thanks it works now :) 20:42
FROGGS perl6-m -Ilib -e 'my %*ENV; say shell("ls")' 20:49
Cannot iterate object with P6opaque representation
in sub shell at src/gen/m-CORE.setting:728
does that count as a bug?
PerlJam Whoever is going to the next YAPC ... I ran across www.youtube.com/watch?v=tCel6lpDTZI just now and it seems like it might be time to revisit the subject of rakudo performance again :) 20:50
nwc10 cognome: $ perl -wle '@INC=(sub{sub{ref($_=pop@INC)}},q{++$A}); $::A = 5; do it; print $::A'
6
that one stops being valid under use strict at some point after 5.12.0 20:51
C<do it> needs to become C<do "it">
FROGGS PerlJam: act.yapc.eu/ye2014/talk/5633 20:52
nwc10 no string evals.
PerlJam ah, jnthn++
FROGGS: btw, that seems like a bug to me.
FROGGS to me too, aye
will probably fix that tomorrow-ish, because I need that working for v5 20:53
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nwc10 cognominal: This is sort of the same thing: 21:02
$ perl -wle '@INC=sub{shift;$a=\@_;sub{defined($_=shift@$a)}}; $::A = 5; do q{++$A}; print $::A'
6
21:03 rurban left 21:07 grondilu joined
grondilu TimToady: I added rosettacode.org/wiki/Gaussian_elimi...on#Perl_6. IIRC you wanted to wait for multi-dimensional arrays for these kinds of stuff but the lack of Perl 6 entry for this task nagged me a bit so I translated C for now. Hope it's ok. 21:09
TimToady Mouq++ just hacked in 2-D subscript notation, fwiw 21:10
timotimo i think you want to have the language be "Perl 6" instead of "perl6"
then it'll syntax-highlight iirc
ah, already fixed
TimToady but in general I'm in favor of something rather than nothing, when it comes to RC
timotimo m: my @a = < 1.0 2.0 3.0 4.0 >; say @a[1].WHAT 21:11
camelia rakudo-moar 356d57: OUTPUT«(Str)␤»
timotimo m: my Rat @a = < 1.0 2.0 3.0 4.0 >; say @a[1].WHAT
camelia rakudo-moar 356d57: OUTPUT«Type check failed in assignment to '@a'; expected 'Rat' but got 'Str'␤ in method REIFY at src/gen/m-CORE.setting:8880␤ in method reify at src/gen/m-CORE.setting:7624␤ in method gimme at src/gen/m-CORE.setting:8119␤ in method exists_pos at src/g…»
timotimo "var" semantics are 6.0.0, right?
pmurias "var" semantics? 21:12
TimToady m: my @a = [<a b c>], [<d e f>], [<g h i>]; say @a[*;1] 21:13
camelia rakudo-moar 356d57: OUTPUT«b e h␤»
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TimToady grondilu: ^^ 21:13
timotimo m: my $foo = < 1.0 > # this is supposed to be a Rat (or RatStr or something)
camelia ( no output )
japhb timotimo: Are you thinking of 'val()' ?
TimToady maybe we should call in VAL, to go with EVAL :)
lue n: my @a = < 1.0 2.0 3.0 4.0 >; say @a[1].WHAT 21:14
camelia niecza v24-109-g48a8de3: OUTPUT«(RatStr)␤»
TimToady m: my $foo = <1/0>; say $foo.WHAT
lue niecza's been getting it right for a while now :)
camelia rakudo-moar 356d57: OUTPUT«(Str)␤»
TimToady yes
japhb Because we lack dualvars ({Bool,Int,Num,Rat}Str), val() is unimplemented (except the ugly hack-val() that is used for MAIN)
s/we lack/Rakudo lacks/
TimToady it's just MI, iirc how niecza does it 21:15
timotimo aye, niecza++
japhb TimToady: For Rakudo, IIUC it needs to be more than because of VM/NQP-level coercion
s/more than/more than just MI/ 21:16
TimToady m: class IntStr is Int is Str {}; say IntStr.^mro
camelia rakudo-moar 356d57: OUTPUT«(IntStr) (Int) (Str) (Cool) (Any) (Mu)␤»
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japhb It's about prefix:<+>, assignment, and so on. 21:17
boxing and unboxing
timotimo hmm.
japhb I don't think it's *hard*, rather that it required more knowledge than I ever had time to get in my head all at once (I tend to get rather short hack sessions, sigh) 21:18
TimToady but there's really no excuse for the literal forms <1/2> or <1+2i> not existing yet, since those do not need MI
japhb No argument there.
timotimo m: class IntStr is Int is Str { has bigint $!number is boxing_target; has str $!string is boxing_target; }; # how do we handle with something that can box 2 things?
camelia rakudo-moar 356d57: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Type 'bigint' is not declared␤at /tmp/7928a657xA:1␤------> class IntStr is Int is Str { has bigint⏏ $!number is boxing_target; has str $!st␤Malformed has␤at /tmp/7928a657xA:1␤------> clas…»
japhb box_target, I think, not boxing_target
timotimo oh, yes
TimToady n: say i 21:19
camelia niecza v24-109-g48a8de3: OUTPUT«0+1i␤»
timotimo m: my knowhow bigint is repr('P6bigint') { }; class IntStr is Int is Str { has bigint $!number is box_target; has str $!string is box_target; }; # how do we handle with something that can box 2 things?
camelia rakudo-moar 356d57: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Duplicate box_target for native int␤»
21:19 brrt joined
TimToady n: say i.perl 21:19
camelia niecza v24-109-g48a8de3: OUTPUT«<0+1i>␤»
japhb timotimo: ... and now you're starting to see the stuff I saw before I went "I have lower-hanging fruit to look at" 21:20
TimToady note niecza++ even adds the <> for .perl
n: say .5.perl
camelia niecza v24-109-g48a8de3: OUTPUT«0.5␤»
japhb r: say i.perl
camelia rakudo-{parrot,jvm,moar} 356d57: OUTPUT«Complex.new(0, 1)␤»
japhb Heh
timotimo japhb: :))
21:20 pmurias left
TimToady n: say (22/7).perl 21:20
camelia niecza v24-109-g48a8de3: OUTPUT«<22/7>␤»
BenGoldberg m: say .5.perl
camelia rakudo-moar 356d57: OUTPUT«0.5␤»
BenGoldberg m: say <22/7>.perl 21:21
TimToady does it as decimal if it can do it exactly
camelia rakudo-moar 356d57: OUTPUT«"22/7"␤»
BenGoldberg m: say [/] <22/7>
camelia rakudo-moar 356d57: OUTPUT«3.142857␤»
TimToady moar just needs the <> for the literal forms of those
timotimo looks at the implementation of box_target
BenGoldberg m: say [/] 22/7
camelia rakudo-moar 356d57: OUTPUT«3.142857␤»
TimToady m: say [/] '22/7' 21:22
camelia rakudo-moar 356d57: OUTPUT«3.142857␤»
TimToady that's how it's cheating
BenGoldberg wft?
TimToady <22/7> is just a string to rakudo
lichtkind why i cant do $match.WHAT eq
i thaought WHAT produces a string
TimToady no, never did tht
lichtkind oh
BenGoldberg m: 3.WHAT.WHAT.say
camelia rakudo-moar 356d57: OUTPUT«(Int)␤»
BenGoldberg m: 3.WHAT.WHAT.WHAT.say 21:23
camelia rakudo-moar 356d57: OUTPUT«(Int)␤»
BenGoldberg m: 3.WHAT.WHAT.WHAT.perl.say
TimToady it has always produced a type object
camelia rakudo-moar 356d57: OUTPUT«Int␤»
lichtkind so so how i stringify it?
TimToady isn't that what BenGoldberg++ just did?
lichtkind i tried 3 ways 21:24
BenGoldberg m: (Class).say
camelia rakudo-moar 356d57: OUTPUT«===SORRY!=== Error while compiling /tmp/mxr1nvoPyJ␤Undeclared name:␤ Class used at line 1␤␤»
BenGoldberg m: 3.WHAT.gist.say
camelia rakudo-moar 356d57: OUTPUT«(Int)␤»
FROGGS m: say 3.^name
camelia rakudo-moar 356d57: OUTPUT«Int␤»
TimToady there's three ways to do it now
japhb p6: ':16«f.8*:4[2]**:2[1,0,0]»/​-:60[1,0]'.Numeric.perl.say
camelia rakudo-{jvm,moar} 356d57: OUTPUT«Failure.new(exception => X::Str::Numeric.new(source => ":16«f.8*:4[2]**:2[1,0,0]»/​-:60[1,0]", pos => 26, reason => "base-10 number must begin with valid digits or '.'"))␤» 21:25
..niecza v24-109-g48a8de3: OUTPUT«Unhandled exception: Cannot parse number: :16«f.8*:4[2]**:2[1,0,0]»/​-:60[1,0]␤ at /home/p6eval/niecza/lib/CORE.setting line 1536 (die @ 5) ␤ at /home/p6eval/niecza/lib/CORE.setting line 3757 (ANON @ 10) ␤ at /home/p6eval/niecza/lib/CORE.…»
..rakudo-parrot 356d57: OUTPUT«Failure.new(exception => X::Str::Numeric.new(source => ":16«f.8*:4[2]**:2[1,0,0]»/\x[200b]-:60[1,0]", pos => 26, reason => "base-10 number must begin with valid digits or '.'"))␤»
BenGoldberg What does .WHAT on a type object return the object itself? Surely it should return the type object for type objects...
s/What does/Why does/
TimToady that *is* the type object for the type object
maybe you're thinking of the metaclass?
BenGoldberg Probably 21:26
lichtkind thank you BenGoldberg++
BenGoldberg m: say Int
camelia rakudo-moar 356d57: OUTPUT«(Int)␤»
BenGoldberg m: my @foo = (Int, Rat, Str); say @foo 21:27
camelia rakudo-moar 356d57: OUTPUT«(Int) (Rat) (Str)␤»
vendethiel mmh, could we imagine a `is impossible` that'd be checked as compile-time if we can establish it as being called statically ?
TimToady m: class Man {}; my $socrates = Man.new; say $socrates ~~ Man
camelia rakudo-moar 356d57: OUTPUT«True␤»
vendethiel 's thinking of idris and co
TimToady m: class Man is Cool {}; my $socrates = Man.new; say $socrates ~~ Cool; say Man ~~ Cool 21:28
camelia rakudo-moar 356d57: OUTPUT«True␤True␤»
japhb p6: ':16<f.8*:4[2]**:2[1,0,0]>/-:60[1,0]'.Numeric.perl.say 21:29
camelia niecza v24-109-g48a8de3: OUTPUT«Unhandled exception: Cannot parse number: :16<f.8*:4[2]**:2[1,0,0]>/-:60[1,0]␤ at /home/p6eval/niecza/lib/CORE.setting line 1536 (die @ 5) ␤ at /home/p6eval/niecza/lib/CORE.setting line 3757 (ANON @ 10) ␤ at /home/p6eval/niecza/lib/CORE.setti…»
..rakudo-{parrot,jvm,moar} 356d57: OUTPUT«<-62/15>␤»
vendethiel :o) 21:30
raydiak \o 21:32
japhb o/ 21:34
masak \oo/ 21:35
timotimo o/\o
japhb masak: Well hello, Zaphod, I didn't see you there ...
TimToady ◡/ <-- brane exploded 21:36
raydiak it's just mirror tricks :) 21:37
BenGoldberg \_o/ <-- relaxing with laptop
TimToady ◡ <-- cheshire kitty 21:38
BenGoldberg That looks more like a wink than a smile :)
TimToady ◡◠ <-- inverted sine wave 21:39
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raydiak you guys are awesome, first thing to make me smile today 21:40
vendethiel smiling++
japhb BenGoldberg: I like the relaxing with the laptop one
lue ∿ <-- actual sine wave :)
vendethiel raydiak: the first thing to make me smile today was ... when I realized I WAS ON HOLIDAYS! yay :P
japhb vendethiel: Heh.
vendethiel japhb: want some :P ? 21:41
timotimo vendethiel: now you have all the time to write docs! ;)
japhb vendethiel: holidays? Yes, do you have some to spare?
vendethiel japhb: these 3 weeks are the only ones I have this year, so no, not really :P
TimToady ⏔ 21:42
vendethiel timotimo: sadly, I won't have an internet connection, and since I edit directly from github ;)
timotimo ah, fair enough ;) 21:44
vendethiel timotimo: I'll probably write some, but hey, it's still holidays, soo :)
timotimo right, it's important to unwind, too
vendethiel m: sub myplus($a,$b) { ($a + $b) * 10 }; say (1..5) <<[[&myplus]]>> (1..10);
camelia rakudo-moar 356d57: OUTPUT«20 40 60 80 100 70 90 110 130 150␤»
21:45 brrt left
vendethiel yay :-) 21:45
that doesn't work on my 2014.03-p locally :P
I think FROGGS++ fixed that
masak not bad for a language that doesn't exist.
timotimo why the F do you have a rakudo from this march? %) 21:46
that's not our latest star, is it?
vendethiel masak: cool off :-)
timotimo: it is
timotimo damn it %)
avuserow: can we help you at the moment?
vendethiel and since my macbook is on holidays (and have been for a week), I can't test it but with camelia++ :P 21:47
masak performs some evaporative cooling
vendethiel was going to let off some steam anyway :P
masak whistles 21:48
japhb refills his bottle of coolant
vendethiel masak: were you the one that liked to watch speedruns here :P ?
who was it already
why is my tongue so much out, is it really that hot?
masak no, not me.
TimToady wonders if rakudo star is an F star
masak I like how, in upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/com...cation.png they've put the stars on a reflecting glass surface, because that's the typical treatment of stars when you display them next to each other. 21:51
21:51 beastd left
TimToady Oh Be A Fine Girl Kiss Mirror? 21:52
lue SunGlass®, so good it can touch the sun!™
avuserow timotimo: I suppose I should give a status report to people here regarding r* 21:53
japhb masak: Well geez, that's what I'd expect. I mean, a reflective surface large enough to fit underneath all those stars wouldn't have *any* effect on the shape of the stars either ....
21:53 denis_boyun_ left
avuserow give me a few minutes though, in a $dayjob meeting :| 21:53
lue Also, now for some reason I see »ö« as an ö-class (modified O-class ?) star that's become a pulsar :P 21:54
timotimo that's no problem
masak japhb: :)
japhb lue: I kinda like that interpretation 21:55
Pulse frequency: approximately once a month
21:55 spider-mario left
TimToady is a little surprised the stars aren't stretched out toward each other... 21:55
japhb TimToady: I was thinking something similar. Then I started thinking about chaotic effects .... 21:56
TimToady wonders if there has ever been a star system in that configuration... 21:57
21:57 FROGGS[mobile] left
TimToady for sure it'd be chaotic shortly thereafter 21:57
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TimToady we oughta be able to find one, if there is, though--just draw a line through all the colinear stars, and then grep out the ones that are in order, and then look for the shortest line segment 22:00
extra credit, determine if they're gravitationally bound
vendethiel I like that, when explaining what >>[=>]<<, I was just able to say 22:01
avuserow timotimo: so I'm blocked at present with some parrot issues where I get random segfaults. Moar is happy as expected. IIRC these failures were seen in previous star attempts?
let me fish up the gist
22:01 tzictli left
avuserow timotimo: gist.github.com/avuserow/5da7dc1a8a0d8211bdf3 22:01
vendethiel "well, really, it's just << and its reversed version >>, plus the [] to group it (ambiguity). Oh, and, the [[&sub]] that works for Z and stuff ? yeah, 'tworks here too"
lue TimToady: and if you can't get anything, look at the stars from another planet :) 22:02
22:03 cognominal left
BenGoldberg m: say 0xffff.chr; # what causes this? 22:04
camelia rakudo-moar 356d57: OUTPUT«(signal )»
japhb m: say 0xfff0.chr; 22:05
camelia rakudo-moar 356d57: OUTPUT«￰␤»
japhb BenGoldberg: 0xffff isn't a Unicode character, IIRC
TimToady p: say 0xffff.chr
camelia rakudo-parrot 356d57: OUTPUT«Invalid character for UTF-8 encoding␤␤ in method chr at gen/parrot/CORE.setting:4503␤ in block at /tmp/oZu6g77Nlw:1␤␤»
TimToady but you'd expect something more like that
japhb But yeah, signaling is a bad way to report the error ...
BenGoldberg Exceptions good, signals bad 22:06
TimToady though why the message mentions UTF-8 is beyound me
BenGoldberg n: say 0xffff.chr;
camelia niecza v24-109-g48a8de3: OUTPUT«\x{FFFF}␤»
BenGoldberg P: say 0xffff.chr;
camelia pugs: OUTPUT«\x{FFFF}␤»
timotimo avuserow: darn :(
TimToady j: say 0xffff.chr
camelia rakudo-jvm 356d57: OUTPUT«\x{FFFF}␤»
TimToady heh
japhb TimToady: Because of characters that can't be represented in other encodings of Unicode, so the message is overly generic?
BenGoldberg It should maybe say 'unicode', not 'utf8' 22:07
japhb BenGoldberg: But UCS-2.
TimToady well, and there's no encoding going on
avuserow timotimo: that's how I feel about it too :(
timotimo avuserow: how about offering a star for only moar and jvm? %) 22:08
japhb TimToady: Right, I'm just hypothesizing how it got that odd wording.
avuserow well jvm wasn't fully there in previous releases
22:08 dmol left
avuserow I guess I should golf the parrot problem and see how bad it is. If it's just a few modules, then maybe we can just mention it in errata 22:08
timotimo mhm :\
avuserow if it's a common construct, then that's not going to fly
I did consider suggesting a "rakudo-luna" with just moar though :P 22:09
timotimo mhm
avuserow bbiab &
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timotimo everybody is free to do their own perl 6 release or rakudo release (given they give it a different name) 22:10
japhb Speaking of r*, does it do all module installs via panda yet? 22:13
masak 'night, #perl6 22:14
22:17 rurban joined
timotimo hmm, don't know actually 22:17
if it does, it'll have to install from local paths, for version reasons 22:18
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japhb timotimo: Sure, that makes sense. Or start including revspecs in the r* copy of the ecosystem list. 22:30
22:31 grondilu left
timotimo hm, i wonder if panda understands that 22:32
but we bundle all the repositorie's up-to-date-as-of-release content anyway
japhb timotimo: In the future, we may not want to just bundle HEAD, but rather bundle a chosen tag/rev of each. 22:34
timotimo er
excuse me. that's what we do
we have git submodules which we set to a specific revision
japhb And if a module regresses (not because of deprecations in Rakudo, but because of changes in the module), we can just avoid changing the expected tag 22:35
Oh! Well, OK then. :-)
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lichtkind good night 23:34
my parder unoptimised is ready
perl 6 is so great but i have some suggestion of a helper function tthat would help easy things up 23:35
23:38 woolfy left 23:47 lichtkind left 23:51 pecastro left 23:52 kurahaupo left

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